00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.05.19
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02:56:23 <rO|> sup
03:00:36 <Robert> Hi
03:07:45 <rO|> Hi Robert. what's the news?
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04:05:26 <rO|> re qFox
04:10:23 <qFox> hi
04:13:24 <qFox> That's not possible. You can only set the forground and
04:13:24 <qFox> background color for the complete console window with: FGBG!
04:13:24 <qFox> try: 0x00ff0000 0x0000ff00 FGBG!
04:13:27 <qFox> gah :(
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05:51:11 <rO|> re I440r
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06:41:54 <I440r> hi :)
06:42:03 <I440r> <-- at work and workin hard (ish)
06:42:41 <Robert> Hehe
06:42:44 <Robert> Hi
06:50:40 <I440r> lol
06:50:45 <I440r> you code that resolver yet ?
06:53:49 <Robert> Yeeees, of course. It's right here... in my locker. I'll go get it.
06:53:51 * Robert runs 
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08:41:19 <futhin> ah the graceful running of a swede with a fat ass
08:41:52 <futhin> i know your body type, you look skinny from the front, but from behind you got a huge hacker's ass
08:42:12 <futhin> its like a surprise present for all the girls!
08:45:45 <I440r> remember futhin ive seen YOUR fotos :P
08:53:21 <Robert> :D
09:15:04 <qFox> lol
09:45:02 <futhin> i440r: http://thin.bespin.org/cduce.html
09:45:07 <futhin> you saw those?
09:45:27 <futhin> i don't have a fat ass, i'm evenly fat
09:46:07 <I440r> lol
09:46:54 <futhin> unlike you guys, i don't look like a weak geek
09:46:57 <futhin> :P
09:47:33 <futhin> i haven't seen everyone's picture but i mentally picture everyone here as like weak pasty little geeks or something..
09:47:37 <futhin> heh
09:54:09 <I440r> lol who's the chik in the "some ass" photo :)
10:00:38 <qFox> looking at the bottom-right corner i'd say he wouldnt know...
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11:56:43 <futhin> I440r: it's a picture of what a girl's ass should look like, just in case there are people out there who don't know that
11:56:56 <I440r> ooohhhhh!
11:57:06 <I440r> i should memorize that one then ?
11:57:12 <I440r> just in case i see some imposters ?
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13:19:20 <Herkamire> LOL
13:19:36 <wossname> wha
13:20:42 <Herkamire> we should create a small photo gallery with the faces of the regulars here
13:22:39 <Herkamire> here's me with my girlfriend: http://www.leafcreations.com/photos/jennyandjason1.jpg
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13:35:37 <I440r> you have a GF ?
13:35:42 <I440r> you aint a coder then :P
13:38:08 <Robert> Hehe
13:39:03 <Herkamire> oh come on ;) I wrote an assemler, compiler, rolled my own programming language, and I'm making my own OS
13:39:20 <Herkamire> my geek qualifications are strong
13:39:59 <I440r> but your disqualified now!
13:40:00 <I440r> lol
13:40:36 <warpzero> owned by love
13:43:00 <Herkamire> Chuck Moore is married
13:43:50 <I440r> but he is a genius level geek a gf/wife couldnt possibly disqualify him :)
13:45:00 <Herkamire> ok, I started a list of regulars with real names and/or links to photos. add to it if you like: http://herkamire.com/jason/forth_channel_regulars
13:45:34 <slava> Herkamire, my full name is Slava Pestov, no photos yet :)
13:46:01 <warpzero> my name is Joshua Charles Campbell
13:46:02 <Herkamire> only reason I have photos is my GF got a digital camera a couple months ago
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13:47:39 <Herkamire> slava, warpzero: updated
13:51:39 <warpzero> Herkamire: whats your language like?
13:52:52 <warpzero> and why are wikis so blastedly popular
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14:01:17 <Herkamire> it's kinda like colorforth
14:01:45 <Herkamire> and wiki's are popular because it's a great way to make organizing information and sharing information/editing with people
14:02:13 <Herkamire> it's not so cryptic like colorforth though, and has a different way of handling immediates
14:03:03 <Herkamire> it has very useful control contsructs I haven't seen elsewhere
14:04:10 <Herkamire> wiki's are great because you can have information with many many manny connections between relivant parts, little to no duplication of information and everyone can easily edit it right from the same program they are using to view it.
14:04:49 <Herkamire> now that the herkforth documentation is in my wiki, I actually find myself compelled to write documentation.
14:05:14 <Herkamire> it's not just a nagging in my head that I ignore, I go to the wiki to check something and I find myself clicking edit and adding something
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14:22:14 <warpzero> [15:03:06] <Herkamire> it has very useful control contsructs I haven't seen elsewhere <-- explain
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14:43:57 <Herkamire> warpzero: I have these words:  0=; if; <; >; <>; etc which exit the word on the given condition
14:44:26 <Herkamire> 0=; is equililent to:  0= if exit then
14:45:25 <Herkamire> I also have 0; which is like 0=; except it does not drop TOS unless it's zero. so it's equivelent to:   dup 0= if drop exit then
14:45:56 <Herkamire> I have for/next except it's zero based like it should be
14:46:17 <Herkamire> 4 for star next    would print 4 stars (not 3 like #*@$ ANS)
14:46:27 <Herkamire> bbiab
14:48:16 <warpzero> oh huh
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15:32:07 <Herkamire> back
15:32:43 <Robert> Hi
15:32:51 <Herkamire> hi Robert :)
15:33:00 <Herkamire> herkforth source is stored in tokens
15:33:12 <Herkamire> a token is an index into the dictionary, and a few bits for the "color"
15:33:24 <Herkamire> color determines what the compiler does with the token, and how the editor displays it
15:34:27 <Robert> Very colorforthish, in other words?
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15:36:03 <slava> Herkamire, do definitions automatically get saved?
15:40:08 <Herkamire> slava: they are automagically saved to the source blocks, but not saved to disk until you hit save
15:40:39 <Herkamire> the only way to enter source is to type it into a source block
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15:41:21 <Herkamire> or you can type a single word that is already defined and hit enter and it will be executed immediately
15:41:46 <Herkamire> I hope to have a quasi-mode for that later
15:55:09 <qFox> i have to figure out either ret and call should use the xor method for addressing as well :\
15:55:13 <qFox> before i can continue
15:56:19 <slava> Herkamire, are blocks fixed size?
15:59:21 <Herkamire> slava: of course
15:59:40 <Herkamire> not in characters, but they can hold at most 510 words
16:00:08 <Herkamire> in practice the source overflows vertical screen space before the block fills
16:01:42 <slava> i have a similar idea -- except 'blocks' are variable size and each one holds 1 word definition only.
16:01:59 <slava> each word def also has a 'shadow block' which is a property list basically
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16:02:09 <slava> it stores documentation for the word, and anything else you want to put there
16:02:25 <Herkamire> yeah
16:02:35 <Herkamire> I plan to store definitions seperately at some point
16:02:56 <slava> my dictionary is also stored in a persistent name/value list
16:03:14 <Herkamire> my dictionary is persistant too
16:03:20 <slava> in fact the db stores 2 types of values; name/value lists, and bits of source code
16:03:22 <Herkamire> although not the CFAs
16:03:35 <slava> the number 65 is stored as the string "65", because when this is parsed you get the object 65
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16:03:47 <slava> the list [ 1 2 3 ] is stored as the string "[ 1 2 3 ]" and so on
16:03:54 <Herkamire> I see
16:04:03 <slava> however, words are serialized differently
16:04:05 <Herkamire> the only strings I store are the name fields in the dictionary
16:04:26 <Herkamire> what's the value in your name/value pairs?
16:04:28 <Herkamire> the CFA?
16:04:35 <slava> the value is any factor expression, as text
16:04:52 <Herkamire> oh, what's the name then?
16:04:54 <slava> if the value is also a name/value table, then the expression is #Oxxx where xxx is an ID number
16:05:22 <slava> eg, the word 'dup' has 2 records in the db
16:05:36 <slava> one is a table { name="dup" , def=#O4846 } or something
16:05:51 <slava> then record id 4846 is the expression that defines 'dup'
16:06:17 <Herkamire> I see
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16:06:37 <slava> there is no CFA in factor
16:06:52 <slava> a word definition is basically a pair; the word name, and a list containing the factors
16:06:57 <Herkamire> I thought you compiled definitions?
16:06:59 <slava> well compiled words are different...
16:07:15 <Herkamire> CFAs are for compiled words
16:07:19 <slava> a compiled word is like a normal word -- it has the source -- but also an associated java class
16:07:34 <slava> i don't store classes in the db yet.
16:07:41 <Herkamire> you compile new java classes on the fly?
16:07:45 <slava> yes
16:07:56 <slava> when you do : foo 2 2 + ; it defines 'foo' as an interpreted word
16:07:57 <Herkamire> weird
16:08:00 <slava> but then you can do "foo" compile
16:08:04 <slava> which compiles it to a java class
16:08:13 <Herkamire> ok
16:08:51 <slava> the db is just a hierarchy
16:08:55 <slava> the root is the global namespace
16:09:05 <slava> one of its children is dict, which is another namespace storing the dictionary
16:09:39 <slava> each child of the dict is the name/value list associated with each word
16:09:46 <slava> one of the entries in that list is the definition
16:10:07 <slava> so when you type [ dup ] to push a list containing the word 'dup' on the stack,
16:10:24 <slava> you're actually pushing a list containing the object stored in the db path "root" -> "dict" -> "dup"
16:12:20 <slava> it sounds more confusing than it really is :)
16:12:20 <Herkamire> right
16:13:30 <Herkamire> I plan to make a database that stares id/value pairs, where id is 32 bits and the value is variable length
16:14:15 <slava> why is id only 32 bits?
16:14:20 <Herkamire> I haven't decided if you can change the size of a value, but you'll be able to at least choose the size of it initially
16:14:30 <slava> my database sits on top of a lower-level 'store'
16:14:35 <Herkamire> because I'm on a 32 bit machine, and it's enough
16:14:46 <slava> the store maps string IDs to byte array values; one level of nesting only
16:15:01 <Herkamire> cool
16:15:05 <slava> a special ID in the store is the 'head', this stores various fields, among them the ID of the global namespace
16:15:31 <slava> so the store deals with IDs and byte arrays, and another level on top of this implements the transparent persistence of objects
16:16:01 <slava> the store is pluggable too -- i plan on doing a network store, so that you can have 2 factor interpreters with the exact same database; for pair coding, etc.
16:18:09 <Herkamire> :)
16:19:08 <slava> i still have some work to do on the compiler, database and test suite, but when they're a bit more complete, i will start working on the GUI.
16:19:26 <slava> the GUI will allow editing the object database in a nice drag and drop, point and click etc way
16:21:01 <slava> so factor will morph from a scripting language into a personal database/organizer
16:26:35 <Herkamire> yikes
16:26:56 <Herkamire> I don't think point and click is nice
16:28:11 <Herkamire> I wish people like you with motivation to build cool projects would learn something about how to build humane interfaces, so your project is nice to work with
16:28:26 <slava> the outer interpreter will still be available of course
16:28:31 <slava> everything will be scriptable
16:28:56 <Herkamire> there are way to many technologically cool projects that suck because their creators didn't know or didn't bother making a good interface
16:29:14 <Herkamire> it's not a good idea to just go with the current popular methods.
16:29:18 <Herkamire> they are bad and are getting worse
16:30:25 <Herkamire> </rant>
16:30:38 <Herkamire> I'm off to play music with friends. be back in a few hours
16:31:15 <slava> i understand what you mean though
16:31:26 <slava> i hate cluttered GUIs with too many icons, huge dialog boxes, poor keyboard shortcuts
16:32:16 <Herkamire> I usually hate interfaces with ANY icons or dialog boxes
16:32:25 <slava> hehe
16:32:34 <Herkamire> both are almost always stupid and useless
16:32:49 <blockhead> Herkamire: what kinda music?
16:33:20 <Herkamire> I believe it was Jeff Raskin who pointed out that there are never icons that pop up to explain what a text label means
16:34:05 <Herkamire> blockhead: old country/folk stuff I think
16:34:26 <Herkamire> and probably some of my contradance or irish fiddle tunes :)
16:34:35 <Herkamire> I'm out. ttyl
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17:02:00 <Sonarman> heh cool, this metal song has some SID
17:08:12 <blockhead> Sonarman: woa, that's like matter + antimatter
17:08:22 <blockhead> You mean the sid chip, I assume?
17:10:51 <Sonarman> no, Steve Irving Dartmouth ;)
17:11:01 <Sonarman> j/k
17:11:11 <Sonarman> yeah, but it was only for a few seconds
17:11:22 <blockhead> yeah, I saw steve when he opened for RUsh.  He rocked!
17:11:36 <blockhead> :D
17:12:06 <Sonarman> sorry, i'm not sophisticated enough to understand the joke you just made :) please explain it
17:12:39 <blockhead> you re *too* sophisticated to get the joke I just made  :D  :D  :D
17:12:50 <blockhead> it was stupid joke
17:13:07 <Sonarman> ok :(
17:13:17 <Sonarman> oops, that was meant to be a smiling face
17:14:02 <Sonarman> and i always thought that correcting smileys was for the lowest class of semi-humans :)
17:14:50 <Sonarman> what's the status of your Forth? have you started working on it again?
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17:20:09 <blockhead> not this week.  eventually I will get back to it.  I need to write an outer interpreter
17:20:32 <blockhead> and that's a bitch!
17:21:02 <Sonarman> do you already have FIND?
17:21:07 <blockhead> yes
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20:18:04 <blockhead> 'night all
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20:36:24 <warp0b00> Shouldn't kc5tja be around this time of night?
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21:26:09 <Herkamire> LOL :) good timing warp0b00 
21:26:20 <warp0b00> LOL :) i love you kc5tja
21:51:40 <warp0b00> should i get 4 or 5 drives
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22:56:14 <kc5tja> warp0b00: I'm sorry??
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23:03:58 <warp0b00> kc5tja: [21:36:26] <warp0b00> Shouldn't kc5tja be around this time of night?   [21:41:00] --> kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-74-218-202.san.rr.com) has joined #forth
23:05:32 <kc5tja> Hehe :)
23:05:43 <kc5tja> And then I disappeared again, and will disappear soon enough.
23:05:53 * kc5tja has to get to bed for work tomorrow.
23:06:25 <warp0b00> don't work too hard :(
23:06:59 <kc5tja> I'll be working my pants off.
23:07:14 <kc5tja> It's my last day at In-N-Out though.
23:07:58 <warp0b00> Really?
23:08:01 <warp0b00> Did you quit?
23:08:21 <kc5tja> Two weeks ago.
23:27:18 <warp0b00> Well I would guess that amount of time [considering]
23:27:53 * kc5tja has a new job starting this coming Monday doing Linux technical support at an ISP not too far from INO.
23:29:27 <warp0b00> should be better then?
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