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08:57:08 <fridge> I think years of IRC has destroyed my ability to concentrate
09:05:37 <kc5tja> I never had the ability to concentrate, so IRC is probably "at home" for me.
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10:25:00 <Guest4307> hi....
10:25:08 --- nick: Guest4307 -> AldoBrasil
10:29:56 <fridge> hi
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11:37:33 <Robert> Hi, gl
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11:46:52 <I440r> lots of ppl in here i dont recognize lol
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11:50:12 <gl> hi
11:50:20 <gl> (sorry for my brainlag)
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12:04:46 <fridge> I guess that explains the funny smell
12:05:00 <fridge> my monitors horizontal controls just went pop
12:05:08 <fridge> now I've got a nice hourglass display
12:05:44 <warpzero> wooo!
12:06:05 <warpzero> 420 freeze cpu by clobbering its clock controller with a kernel module every day
12:06:33 <I440r> lol
12:06:39 <I440r> get an lcd :)
12:06:46 <I440r> they are cheaper over the long run
12:07:32 <fridge> I'll get what I'm given
12:08:04 <I440r> you could try fixing that one
12:08:19 <I440r> might be as simple as replacing a resister
12:08:32 <fridge> we usually send them off to this guy nearby
12:08:57 <fridge> he fixes all our stuff like psu's and monitors
12:10:20 <I440r> k
12:10:57 <fridge> just means I'm stuck with one 21" monitor instead of 2 =)
12:15:15 <Herkamire> LCDs are cheaper in the long run?
12:15:38 <Herkamire> how much longer do they typically last
12:18:32 <I440r> no. they dont last longer that i know if
12:18:43 <I440r> they burn up a hell of alot less electricity though
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12:23:45 <Herkamire> ohh ok.
12:24:00 * Herkamire wonders how long it would take his CRT to use $500 worth of electricity
12:25:10 <warpzero> GAH FUCK
12:26:10 <I440r> Herkamire, running 24 hours a day ?
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12:26:13 <I440r> a couple of years
12:26:25 <fridge> warpzero, whats the matter?
12:26:47 <warpzero> okay
12:26:57 <slava> ah gnome sweet gnome
12:27:06 <warpzero> im trying to change the PLL1 configuration but its not fucking working
12:27:29 <Herkamire> it auto-sleeps after 30 min, so I'd guess 10 hours a day
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12:30:37 <warpzero> GAH
12:30:40 <warpzero> the bits
12:30:43 <warpzero> they won't stick
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15:53:15 <Sonarman> Herkamire: http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=6958
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16:23:50 <qFox> if i use  S" string"  in a word, and this word gets called oh say 1000 times, will i in the end be left with a 1000 strings containing "string" ?
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16:24:15 <qFox> in fact... dont answer that.
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19:33:29 <Sonarman> wow, kc must be REALLY lagging :)
19:34:29 <kc5tja> I'm compiling the VOCAL SIP support package.
19:35:20 <kc5tja> And it's STILL compiling.  :/
19:36:30 <madgarden> VOCAL SIP? Is that like, a really loud slurp or something?
19:36:50 <kc5tja> ummm....  no.
19:37:15 <kc5tja> VOCAL is a library designed to interface to software dealing with the SIP protocol.
19:38:50 <Sonarman> which is a more light-weight version of the GULP protovol?
19:39:00 <Sonarman> gakh, protocol
19:39:30 <kc5tja> Ever heard of Voice-over-IP?
19:40:14 <kc5tja> SIP is the protocol used to emulate and encapsulate telephone connections over IP.
19:40:57 <Sonarman> cool
19:42:10 <Sonarman> what are you planning to use the package for/
19:43:16 <kc5tja> Primarily, to talk to my parents in NY for free.
19:43:36 <kc5tja> Also, I'm going to use it to establish a neat-o PBX thingie for my business when I get the Kestrel on the market.
19:44:16 <kc5tja> I'll probably also offer some kind of special incentive to get callers to use the SIP line, since it's dirt cheap (e.g., FREE) for me to use.  No per-minute business charges.
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19:48:59 <kc5tja> okies, I gave up on the VOCAL compilation.
19:49:09 <kc5tja> Over an hour compiling, and no hint of nearing completion.
19:49:12 <kc5tja> I can't live with that.
19:49:26 <kc5tja> (only XFree86 has that right and privilege, and even then, it is only for historical reasons.)
19:49:36 <fridge> hi kc5tja
19:49:52 <kc5tja> re fridge 
19:50:01 <kc5tja> Now I need a microphone interface to my computer.
19:50:07 <fridge> I take it you trust paypal, seeing as you put it on your site?
19:50:31 <kc5tja> For my purposes, it's adequate.
19:50:47 <fridge> OK, one donation coming up!
19:51:36 <kc5tja> cool.  thanks!  :)
19:57:22 <fridge> you've probably earnt it just by the ammount of stuff I've learnt via osmosis while sitting in this channel =)
20:11:09 <I440r> anyoine in here previously had problems with isfor.clss.net fonts >
20:11:10 <I440r> ?
20:11:20 <I440r> can you look again and tell me if THESE work ?
20:12:38 <fridge> I440r, it looks OK to me.
20:13:04 <I440r> good - it will still look wrong in some places if you make the mistake of using IE :P
20:13:09 <I440r> but who ares about IE :P
20:14:03 <fridge> better get back to it
20:14:12 * fridge is looking for a new job
20:14:51 <kc5tja> Sweet!  I'm on FWD.
20:33:40 <kc5tja> Thanks, fridge !  :)
20:33:49 <kc5tja> Just received the notification.
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22:50:08 <I440r> anyone here know html/xml ?
22:50:34 <kc5tja> Yes
22:50:50 <I440r> ok i got a problem heh
22:50:51 <I440r> hang on
22:51:28 <I440r> ok, had to close something down.
22:51:34 <I440r> ok this is what im trying to do.
22:51:57 <I440r> i have a tble which has style - inside this table im devining other tables. 
22:52:11 <I440r> each table has two rows. the upper row has one column the entire width of the row
22:52:15 <I440r> the lower row has two columns
22:52:36 <I440r> unfortunatly when i define this inner table it obliterates the style defined in the outer table
22:53:03 <kc5tja> I don't know what you mean by "obliterates."
22:53:18 <I440r> do you have opera ?
22:53:24 <kc5tja> I have Mozilla Firebird.
22:53:27 <I440r> if not i think i can still slwo you
22:53:39 <I440r> ok hang on... that displays my incorrect html slightly differently
22:54:32 <kc5tja> FUCK...this is MOST annoying.  :(
22:55:09 <kc5tja> kphone, even the latest version, still gets a recvfrom() failed: Resource temporarily unavailable message.  What the hell does that fscking error message mean, and what in the HELL does it have to do with freakin' UDP sockets?!
22:56:11 <I440r> http://isforth.clss.net/e/comment.html
22:56:26 <I440r> ok go look at that and ill try explain what your seeing and what im trying to do
22:57:04 <I440r> dont look at the source yet
22:57:22 <I440r> you will probably see some stack comments outside a boxed tabke
22:57:25 <I440r> table
22:57:48 <kc5tja> Yes.
22:58:04 <I440r> after this box of one item you will see an unboxed item followed by a series of boxed items
22:58:21 <I440r> th ething is the two boxed tables are ONE BOXED TABLE!!!!
22:58:34 <kc5tja> Whoa.
22:58:37 <kc5tja> Type slower.
22:58:37 <I440r> the unboxed item is a table INSIDE that table and its obliterating the outer table
22:58:56 <I440r> heh
22:59:02 <kc5tja> Start over.
22:59:07 <kc5tja> I see ( --- )
22:59:21 <kc5tja> Then inside a box directly beneath it, I see, "this is wrong but..." in a single box.
22:59:26 <kc5tja> Beneath that, nothing is boxed.
22:59:48 <I440r> ok well thats still wrong. the whole lot should be boxed.
23:00:00 <I440r> let me get rid of the this is wrong part its served its purpose
23:00:09 <I440r> and then ill try show you what im trying to do
23:01:00 <I440r> ok i want a table that contains multiple tables. the outer table has style and shows the outer box arround every other table
23:01:16 <I440r> the inner tables consist of two rows. the upper row is the stack comment
23:01:32 <I440r> the lower row is split into two columns. the left column gives the word name and its pronunciation
23:01:37 <I440r> the right column gives its description
23:03:20 <I440r> but it aint working. because when i define the inner tables they destroy the outer table
23:04:07 <I440r> why cant i nest a table inside a table ?
23:04:15 <I440r> ive done so before, it just isnt working here
23:06:33 <Herkamire> the border attribute is not inherited
23:07:29 <kc5tja> I440r: I don't know.  I'd have to see your CSS, I'd have to see the HTML files, and frankly, I'm way too tired to try and figure this stuff out right now.
23:07:56 <kc5tja> I am having a hell of a time debugging kphone right now, and trying to get it and FWD to successfully interoperate, in dialing my folks back home in NY state.
23:08:19 <I440r> thats ok, ill just slog it out :)
23:08:24 <I440r> ill get it eventually :)
23:08:34 <Herkamire> you can't just do <table><table>
23:08:43 <I440r> y not ?
23:08:45 <Herkamire> you have to do <table><tr><td><table>
23:08:54 <Herkamire> the only thing you can put in a <table> is a <tr>
23:08:56 <kc5tja> FUCK!!!!!!!
23:09:06 <kc5tja> What the **HELL** is this temporary unavailable resource shit!?
23:09:08 * Herkamire used tidy to find the error quickly
23:09:10 <I440r> its ooh!
23:09:12 <I440r> right!
23:10:11 <Herkamire> also, <tr> tags can only contain <td> and <th>
23:10:14 <I440r> however. that didnt fix it :/
23:10:17 <Herkamire> you can't put text in them
23:10:24 <I440r> whats a th ?
23:10:27 <I440r> table header ?
23:10:27 <Herkamire> get htmltidy
23:10:48 <I440r> a table header goes outside the table above it ?
23:11:00 <I440r> that might be what i need
23:11:08 <I440r> can i give a table header style ?
23:11:14 <Herkamire> if you don't get the nesting right, or put text where there shouldn't be text then a lot of browsers just stick your stuff somewhere randomly (like at the bottom of the page, or the top.)
23:11:25 <Herkamire> don't use th
23:11:27 <I440r> :)
23:11:32 <I440r> opera is more forgiving lol
23:11:39 <Herkamire> it's the same as td only defaults to bold or something
23:11:40 <I440r> but im trying to fix it
23:12:03 <Herkamire> tidy is very useful for writing tables
23:12:11 <I440r> tr's cant contain <table> ?
23:12:13 <Herkamire> it can usually instantly tell you what line your error is on
23:12:14 <I440r> thats no good to me then
23:12:15 <I440r> im fucked
23:13:04 <I440r> do i need a <td> ?
23:13:07 <Herkamire> here's what your inner table should be:  <table summary=""><tr><td colspan="2">blabla</td></tr><tr><td>...</td><td>...</td></tr></table>
23:13:16 <I440r> is <table> <tr> .... </tr> </table> legal ?
23:13:20 <Herkamire> no
23:13:31 <Herkamire> unless .... starts with <td> and ends with </td>
23:13:50 <Herkamire> all data has to be in a td
23:13:55 <I440r> erm the table has two rows. only the tottom has columns
23:13:59 <Herkamire> td == Table Data
23:14:14 <I440r> i can do <table> <td> </td> </table> ?
23:14:21 <Herkamire> right, that's why you specify colspan="2" in the td in the top row
23:14:30 <Herkamire> because it spans two columns
23:14:36 <Herkamire> no
23:14:44 <Herkamire> <table> can contain only <tr>s
23:14:49 <I440r> oooh my tabke has rows that contain data. not data that contain rows !!!
23:14:50 <I440r> lol
23:14:59 <Herkamire> <tr>s can contain only <td>s (and <th> but that's useless)
23:15:25 <Herkamire> use my example.
23:15:35 <I440r> im changing it now
23:16:00 <I440r> whats the summery ?
23:16:35 <I440r> err your example table starts with a <tr> not a <td>
23:16:40 <I440r> isnt that wrong ?
23:17:25 <Herkamire> it's correct
23:17:31 <Herkamire> table can contain only tr
23:17:35 <Herkamire> tr can contain td
23:17:38 <Herkamire> that's the only way
23:18:24 <Herkamire> the newer html spec(s) require a table to have asummary for non-visual clients.
23:20:10 <I440r> its displayint totally wrong lol
23:20:25 <Herkamire> leaving out summary="" isn't going to get you into trouble, just I get in the habbit of writing code compliant with html spec 4.01 strict
23:20:36 <Herkamire> get tidy!
23:21:03 <Herkamire> http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/
23:21:15 <Herkamire> it will tell you right where your errors are and what the errors are
23:21:39 <I440r> lol 
23:21:42 <I440r> this is weird
23:22:00 <I440r> your example above is almost right but not quite
23:22:08 <Herkamire> yeah, weird stuff happens when you don't get tables right
23:22:13 <I440r> i know
23:22:17 <I440r> let me explain what i need
23:22:28 <I440r> i need two rows. the upper row is full width
23:22:34 <I440r> the lower row is split into two columns
23:22:41 <Herkamire> right. that's what it does
23:22:49 <I440r> lol no
23:22:54 <I440r> im seeing three rows
23:23:00 <I440r> left-row
23:23:02 <I440r> upper row
23:23:04 <I440r> right row
23:23:07 <I440r> like that
23:23:10 <I440r> instead of
23:23:11 <I440r> upper row
23:23:13 <I440r> left    right
23:24:22 <Herkamire> works fine for me
23:24:36 <Herkamire> and tidy reports no errors
23:25:24 <Herkamire> if something is being displayed above the table it generally means that you screwed up the table (like it's not inside a <td>)
23:26:30 <I440r>  <table summery="">
23:26:31 <I440r>   <tr>
23:26:31 <I440r>    <td colspan="1">
23:26:31 <I440r>     upper     
23:26:31 <I440r>     </td>        
23:26:32 <I440r>     <tr colspan="2"r>
23:26:35 <I440r>      <td> xxx </td>
23:26:38 <I440r>      <td> yyy </td>
23:26:42 <I440r>     </tr>
23:26:46 <I440r>    </td> 
23:26:48 <fridge> I've never liked html
23:26:50 <I440r>   <tr>  
23:26:54 <I440r>  </table>
23:26:54 <I440r> tjat works
23:26:54 <I440r> is it right ?
23:26:58 <I440r> me either
23:32:14 <kc5tja> OK, I'm rather upset about this.
23:32:34 <kc5tja> This truely does defeat the purpose of my research into SIP and softphones.
23:33:06 <kc5tja> I think I'm going to go to bed.
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23:35:21 <fridge> poor kc5tja
23:38:33 <I440r> aherk argh IE is pissing me off :(
23:38:43 <I440r> it displays the two lower columns the same width
23:38:48 <I440r> i.e. the text
23:38:50 <I440r> descriotion is
23:38:52 <I440r> displayed
23:38:53 <I440r> like this
23:39:45 <Herkamire> don't use IE :)
23:40:11 <Herkamire> you have the colspans mixed up
23:40:12 <I440r> me either but if IE is fucking all over this like THIS then so will mozilla
23:40:18 <I440r> u use moz ?
23:40:28 <Herkamire> colspan specifies how many collumns that cell takes up
23:40:44 <Herkamire> you have a table with two columns, except that the top cell takes up two cells
23:40:50 <I440r> erm ok
23:40:53 <Herkamire> also colspan="1" is redundant. that's the default
23:41:20 <Herkamire> also colspan goes only in <td>
23:41:23 <Herkamire> not <tr>
23:42:08 <Herkamire> usually with tables you end up having to specify absolute pixel widths for things
23:42:16 <Herkamire> you can't rely on browsers to pick a nice width
23:44:41 <Herkamire> <table summary=""><tr><td colspan="2">upper</td></tr><tr><td>bottom left</td><td>bottom right</td></tr></table>
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23:48:24 <I440r> ok, why is my width="100%" on the bottom row being ignored by IE ?
23:53:54 <I440r> why is my right column the same width as the left one ?
23:54:13 <I440r> i specify 70 pixles for the left column and "100%" for the right one
23:54:38 <I440r> im not specifying an exact pizle count for the other one because thats toing to FORCE a specific resolutoin on the viewer
23:54:40 <I440r> BAD!!!
23:55:02 <Herkamire> you don't specify widths on rows
23:55:07 <Herkamire> only on <td>s
23:55:16 <I440r> its on the td
23:55:22 <I440r> its the column i meant
23:55:30 <I440r> the left column is 70 pixles wide
23:55:38 <Herkamire> with CSS you can also specify a width for the table
23:55:42 <I440r> i specify 100% on the right one and ie shows it as.... 70 pixles
23:55:58 <Herkamire> oh
23:56:42 <I440r> ie is just being so fucked up
23:58:10 <I440r> does moz display it that way too ?
23:58:18 <I440r> i.e. left and right columns are both the same width ?
23:59:58 <Herkamire> this still? http://isforth.clss.net/e/comment.html
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.05.06