00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.04.21 00:17:28 OK, I'm off to bed. 00:17:36 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 01:54:11 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@217.121.68.87) joined #forth 05:12:48 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 05:42:50 --- join: yeoh (~yeoh@219.95.25.141) joined #forth 05:43:00 Hello, everyone! :) 05:54:43 --- quit: yeoh ("Client exiting") 06:42:09 --- quit: ianp` (Remote closed the connection) 06:43:22 --- join: ianp (nobody@c-24-13-109-164.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:00:33 --- quit: hovil ("Leaving") 07:15:23 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:24:21 --- join: Herkamire (stjohns@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 07:41:29 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@69.79.24.31) joined #forth 07:52:57 --- quit: Robert ("brb") 08:01:43 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-5d5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 08:18:48 --- join: crc (~Charles_C@0-1pool88-27.nas48.philadelphia1.pa.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 08:58:20 Duration: 45 sec. 08:58:20 Ran 1896 instructions. 08:58:20 Average 0.023734 sec/instructions. 08:58:20 Average 42.133333 instructions/sec. 08:58:27 oh how it hurts :p 08:58:48 thats with debug checks on, but debug output off even... 08:59:57 Heh! 09:00:22 Write an IRC client running on that virtual machine. ;) 09:02:10 now with full debug power on! :p 09:02:10 Duration: 144 sec. 09:02:10 Ran 1896 instructions. 09:02:10 Average 0.075949 sec/instructions. 09:02:10 Average 13.166667 instructions/sec. 09:02:16 feel the burn 09:02:43 That's worse than my brainfuck computer... 09:02:44 the above was with normal output on btw, i guess thats sort of debug output, but it slows it down alot i'm sure 09:04:10 hm, thats odd, no change.. 09:05:09 Duration: 39 sec. 09:05:09 Ran 1896 instructions. 09:05:09 Average 0.02057 sec/instructions. 09:05:09 Average 48.615385 instructions/sec. 09:05:42 removing any output should increase performance more then this... 09:08:02 i guess the timer is seriously slowing it down, pity 09:08:03 Duration: 14 sec. 09:08:03 Ran 1896 instructions. 09:08:03 Average 0.007384 sec/instructions. 09:08:03 Average 135.428571 instructions/sec. 09:08:36 i dont think i can get any serious performance increases :p 09:10:08 but on the bright side, i have a working ' < and > 09:10:11 :p 09:10:23 coded in machine forth that is 09:10:39 these tests were basicly all 666 666 > 09:30:42 --- quit: crc ("ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7b/20040316]") 10:07:07 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 11:07:31 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 11:07:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 11:26:29 --- join: ianp` (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 11:26:41 --- nick: ianp` -> ian_etc 11:27:02 regards 11:34:45 Hi ian 12:24:53 --- quit: slava ("Leaving") 12:24:53 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:10:54 --- quit: kc5tja ("Lost terminal") 13:13:31 --- join: madwork_ 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nick: Sonarman_ -> Sonarman 17:17:23 --- quit: fridge (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:23 --- quit: madwork_ (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:23 --- quit: ian_etc (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:23 --- quit: Robert (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:24 --- quit: onetom (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:24 --- quit: warpzero (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:24 --- quit: Sonarman (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:24 --- quit: Herkamire (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:24 --- quit: lalalim (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:24 --- quit: madgarden (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:25 --- quit: mur (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:25 --- quit: ChanServ (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:25 --- quit: cmeme (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:25 --- quit: qFox (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:25 --- quit: chandler (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:25 --- quit: o-- (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:25 --- quit: ianp (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:17:50 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: Sonarman (1000@adsl-64-160-166-100.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: madwork_ (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: ian_etc (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-5d5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: Herkamire (stjohns@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: ianp (nobody@c-24-13-109-164.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: lalalim (~lalalim@p508AB14C.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-113-229-203.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: chandler (~chandler@chandler.registered) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: o-- (o@virgo.bombsquad.org) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: mur (~mur@mgw2.uiah.fi) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576712.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 17:17:50 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 17:47:07 --- quit: qFox ("this is mirc's last attempt of communication...") 17:52:01 --- join: blockhead (default@dialin-89-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 17:56:00 hello, the head of block. 17:56:22 hi :D 18:35:13 --- join: lalalim_ (~lalalim@p508AB093.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 18:51:33 --- quit: lalalim (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:38:43 --- join: yeoh (~yeoh@219.95.5.40) joined #forth 19:51:19 night all 19:51:22 --- quit: blockhead ("Client Exiting") 20:27:51 --- quit: warpzero ("Tried to warn you about Chino and Daddy Gee, but I can't seem to get to you through the U.S. Mail.") 20:39:31 --- join: Sonarman_ (1000@ppp-66-124-255-193.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 20:39:31 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:39:45 --- nick: Sonarman_ -> Sonarman 20:58:10 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 20:58:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 21:13:37 --- join: yeoh_yeoh (~yeoh@219.95.5.40) joined #forth 21:17:38 --- quit: yeoh (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 21:19:37 --- quit: yeoh_yeoh ("Client exited") 21:21:05 --- join: yeoh (~yeoh@219.95.5.40) joined #forth 21:28:23 Forth rock! 21:29:01 Doo-woop-deedoo, FORTH! 21:29:54 To boldly go Forth where no man has gone before! 21:30:44 Chihuahuas are cute. 21:33:59 --- join: I440r (~mark4@adsl-64-219-100-36.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 21:34:44 hi mark4! :) 21:34:47 hi 21:35:03 :) 21:35:06 I got your forth for Linux. It's very good! 21:35:11 cool 21:35:19 you doing anything with it yet? 21:35:22 or just learning ? 21:35:30 just playing with it for now. 21:35:30 i ferget if your a forth expert or not heh 21:35:39 still learning Forth. 21:35:47 its old age, you ferget things :P 21:35:59 and reading Leo Brodie's on-line book. 21:36:11 i will be updating the isforth web page soon with more docs 21:36:19 Great! 21:36:20 starting forth is good but its a bit old now :) 21:36:42 Well, I'm looking for on-line ebooks and tutorials. 21:36:46 yea 21:37:19 alot of forth tutorials these days are for ans compliant forths and isforth is deliberatly NOT compliant wtih that abomination :P 21:37:28 :) 21:37:43 Forth is unique among all programming languages. 21:37:52 when you've seen one forth 21:37:55 you've seen ONE forth 21:37:56 lol 21:38:01 lol 21:40:15 have you read any of the current online stuff on my page ? 21:40:34 even if you dont code assembler you should read the kernel doc's and reference teh sources at the same time 21:40:47 not yet. 21:41:10 but I'll take a look. 21:41:51 good :) 21:42:07 :) 21:43:15 heh! PUSH from bigFORTH is a cool word! 21:44:04 it saves the value of a variable, and upon completion of the word in which it is used, the variable is turned to its original value 21:45:00 e.g.: : b. ( print a number in binary form ) base push 2 base ! . ; 21:45:58 cool, good for reuse in other words. 21:46:19 but isn't using variables is "bad" coding practice? 21:47:01 well, how else are you going to keep the current numerical base? :) 21:47:38 yeah. :) 21:47:40 but i guess it's better to write words as purely functional as possible 21:47:45 s/better/best 21:49:39 anyway, push makes the definition of b. a lot cleaner than it would be without it: : b. base @ swap 2 base ! . base ! ; 21:50:21 no 21:50:22 cool! 21:50:26 its not from bigforth 21:50:31 its from pygmy i believe 21:50:40 push and pop instead of >r r> 21:50:43 but i disagree 21:50:52 >r and r> are far far far more descriptive 21:50:57 pygmy's PUSH is completely different from biggie's PUSH 21:51:02 oh? 21:51:06 whats bigforths push ? 21:51:21 press Page Up and you'll find out :) 21:52:03 newp, i only just arrived heh 21:52:12 :) 21:52:39 it saves the value of a variable, and upon completion of the word in which it is used, the variable is turned to its original value 21:52:49 e.g.: : b. ( print a number in binary form ) base push 2 base ! . ; 21:53:06 s/turned/returned 21:53:29 fpc had a similar mechanism 21:53:52 but all you need to do in isforth is base @ binary . base ! :) 21:54:02 or for hex just do h. 21:54:10 base push binary . :) 21:54:13 prints the number in hex no matter what the current base :) 21:54:24 its not symetrical 21:54:32 thers no pop (i assume its implied) 21:54:44 but making things implied is making them NON intuative 21:54:54 ah, now we get to bigforth push's implementation :) 21:56:09 it pushes the variable addr, variable's original value, and the address of a subroutine called PULL onto the return stack. when the using-word exits, first PULL is called, which restores the variable using the values on the return stack 21:56:18 neat, huh? :-) 21:56:37 variable'S addr 21:56:48 I440r: base @ binary . base ! will print the value of base in binary, and store the value-to-be-printed in base. 21:56:56 lol 21:57:16 lol 22:02:51 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:05:08 hi serg! 22:05:29 hi-i-i ! 22:09:30 :) 22:10:37 how are your workings ? 22:13:32 working on documentation for isforth, not working a contract atm 22:13:36 looking for one L( 22:13:38 :) 22:19:22 i now learn PHP+MySQL 22:19:50 our company gonna make a webshop, or at least a good catalog 22:24:26 I440r: I'm $42 overdrawn on my bank account, and with too little income to dig myself out of debt. 22:24:36 * kc5tja is going to apply to Lindows.com tomorrow, and to sipphone.com 22:24:57 * kc5tja is REALLY hoping he gets one of those two jobs. especially since the companies are literally just down the street from me. 22:25:36 heh, i yesterday counted my money - 817$ + 18xx Euro 22:26:02 not counting RUbles - they are hell no money 22:26:27 ouch :I( 22:26:50 I440r: is it much or little for u'r point of view ? 22:27:17 eh ? 22:27:23 Serg: That is, literally, $859 more than I have right now. 22:27:42 I440r: am i poor or rich in your view ? 22:27:45 kc5tja: ack 22:28:16 i dont ven kmnow if im poor or not 22:28:23 kc5tja: and 1800+ Euro ;) 22:29:07 1800 Euro would sustain me for three months at my current expense rate. 22:29:51 here this is rich for everyday spendings but poor if one wanna buy own home - one-room apartment costs $60000 in Moscow 22:30:11 in your place ? 22:30:52 $1000 per sqare meter, damn ! 22:31:11 ? 22:31:17 $450 rent per month. 22:31:37 i mean not rent, i mean buy 22:32:03 here rent is 300-500$ for one-room apartment, depends on district 22:32:06 My resume is now on my website. 22:33:02 if say rent, i can afford rooming house only - but this mega sucks 22:34:31 living w/ caucasian and vietnamese illegal guest-workers neighbours is even worse than my current state 22:35:30 and it gonna suck half of my income - so no fun, only basic needs 22:36:58 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 22:37:30 I really didn't want to do this, but I have no immediate choice: 22:37:37 I'm going to accept pre-orders for the ForthBox Kestrel. 22:37:45 US$100. 22:37:53 Alternatively, donations for less than that. 22:38:25 hmmm... w/o working thing, it is like making debt 22:40:11 Serg: The idea is to use this money *in conjunction* with the money I make from In-N-out. 22:40:14 Not exclusively. 22:40:21 R&D costs would have to be sunk anyway. 22:40:54 Total net income versus outflow will always be the same. 22:41:03 But i agree; I did not want to have to go the pre-order route at all. 22:55:09 --- join: rsync (~pavel@CPE000c41aac435-CM000a73a75acb.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 23:02:33 I only have about $900 right now 23:03:12 I haven't had this little since I was 19 23:03:23 Right now, I have negative cash. 23:03:34 I had no idea I was this low until today. 23:03:42 heh :) 23:04:09 I wish the fucking assholes you write checks to (especially online) would fucking debit my account IMMEDIATELY, so that this bullshit doesn't happen. 23:04:14 I was Very suprised when I found my main bank balance was $264. I thought it was a thousand or a bit more 23:04:30 yeah, checks suck 23:04:59 lame. 23:05:08 fortunately part of the reason my balance is low is because I put down a deposit for the place I'm moving to 23:05:20 optimise banking system into forth then! :-P 23:05:36 so next months rent is paid, ples I'll be getting some back from my current landlord 23:05:48 moving sucks. 23:05:54 What would you do if you have a million dollars right now? 23:05:57 big time. 23:06:07 yeoh: Who, me? 23:06:12 buy a condo a nice one. in downtown., 23:06:14 I'd freakin' retire, that's what. 23:06:19 Yes, everyone here. :) 23:06:23 Stuff the money in a bank account, and live entirely off of interest. 23:06:33 and open business. travel to most contries. 23:06:43 do asia and south america tour. 23:06:46 I'd invest it 23:06:49 True, I'd probably still have a small, home-run business to occupy my time a bit. 23:06:51 and most russia. 23:07:01 I'd try traveling 23:07:11 I think 23:07:15 I'm pretty happy where I am. 23:07:27 Wow, interesting ideas! 23:07:32 I'd stop kicking myself to make more money 23:07:38 travelling is like a drug, but one that alters you irrevrsibly. like LSD. 23:08:01 yeoh: what you got million :-) 23:08:15 heh heh heh I wish! 23:08:19 I really don't know what I'd do. if I could, I'd keep it a secret 23:08:30 i havent had lsd but know alot of people who did... and i travelled fair bit. 23:09:10 I'd give some of it to open software groups/people 23:09:16 anyone talks forth on this channel ever? ;-) 23:09:34 * Herkamire scrolls up 23:09:37 sure :) 23:10:04 whats a good forth to run in linux? i have gforth installed. 23:10:05 I've been too lazy to work on my forth lately 23:10:20 rsync: good for what? 23:10:25 for learning. 23:10:25 I'm trying out gforth too. :) 23:10:27 forth. 23:10:40 gforth is good for getting started 23:10:46 if there something better, in terms of commonality. 23:10:52 if you want to delve much into internals and stuff, than something else 23:11:00 (like for writing your own) 23:11:01 like ..? 23:11:04 hah. 23:11:10 no, gforth is the common one 23:11:18 colorforth is dos. 23:11:25 i see. 23:11:31 colorforth doesn't have anything to do with dos 23:11:33 There is xcolorforth for Linux. 23:11:37 wow 23:11:46 oh, well maybe there's a dos port. 23:11:52 there's also a windoze port, and a linux port 23:11:59 and one that runs under bochs 23:12:03 eh? 23:12:17 ok doing search on gentoo portage tree :-D 23:12:18 colorforth is an OS 23:12:27 thats what i read. 23:12:36 for VLSI design software. 23:12:43 Also, isforth by mark4 is available. 23:12:51 yay gentoo :) 23:12:52 #emerge search forth 23:13:05 bleh. gforth only. 23:13:19 there was some talk about using isforth to help port colorforth to linux 23:13:27 but no work was done on that 23:13:30 gforth is a nice cross-platform ans forth (if you like that sort of thing) 23:13:31 no yay. it sucks. recomplie always seems to break. er, i mean 'emerge world' 23:14:07 emerge -uD world 23:14:08 oh, never did emerge world 23:14:28 I440r: thanks. 23:14:30 i just did an emerge -e world :) 23:14:30 hmm, the lame side of Forth is what it itsn't the same everythere 23:14:34 dont do that 23:14:37 the -e i mean 23:14:46 that says totally recompile EVERYTHING i have installed 23:14:56 the -uD is upgrade everything i have in stalled that needs it 23:15:07 if i wrote Perl proggie in windoze, much likely it'll run on Unix... 23:15:18 Serg: same with gforth 23:15:43 but if i wrote one in IsForth, i hardly believe it'll run on Windoze SPF4 - the most popular one in RU 23:15:54 brb 23:15:56 --- quit: I440r ("BitchX Official FAQ Site -- http://faq.bitchx.org/") 23:16:14 Serg: yeah, many forths are their own variant of the language. 23:16:25 gforth installation on windoze hangs, some of the several versions, that is. 23:16:47 Serg: u russian? 23:17:15 yeah, RU ! 23:17:18 lol 23:17:24 i am so tired. 23:17:35 i am in t.o.canada. 23:17:43 --- join: I440r (~mark4@adsl-64-219-100-36.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 23:17:53 Toronto, Ontario? 23:17:57 ya 23:18:01 cool! 23:18:11 yeoh: you korean let me guess. 23:18:24 heh heh, guess some more. 23:18:31 hah. 23:18:48 I'm Malaysian. 23:18:58 in toronto? 23:19:10 in Malaysia. :) 23:19:24 how do u know about toronto then? 23:19:41 My brother-in-law lives in Waterloo. 23:20:10 --- quit: I440r (Client Quit) 23:20:22 --- join: I440r (~mark4@adsl-64-219-100-36.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 23:20:36 much better 23:20:38 got x working. then had to reinstall xchat lol 23:21:40 some forths aim at portability, some compatibility, some simplicity, ... 23:21:52 one of the cool things about forth is that it can easily be specialized 23:22:27 it can sometimes be the perfect language, because you designed the language to suit the project 23:23:21 being compatible accross platforms is a low priority for me 23:23:41 I'm making an OS 23:23:47 Is Forth more suited for embedded systems? 23:23:54 herk tadaa!!!! 23:23:55 there may be variants that work on other platforms later, but I'm not going to worry about that now. 23:24:15 its more suited to embedded than almost anything else is 23:24:28 but that doesnt say forth is better at embedded than it is at non embedded 23:24:34 its good everywhere 23:24:53 herk good choice. thats the one i made for isforth too 23:25:03 I see. :) 23:25:21 I have made no effort to be portable, and I think herkforth could be ported rather easily to x86 23:25:31 mostly because it's small :) 23:25:59 well i gotta go zzzz, its late 23:26:01 nite :) 23:26:12 nite :) 23:26:58 I think colorforth is extremely valueable. even though I can't run it (except painfully slowly under bochs) 23:27:52 because of the concepts 23:27:55 they are portable 23:28:06 much of the design of herkforth came from colorforth 23:28:26 one thing I really like about forth is that there is a lot of experimentation and development in the language. 23:28:35 people are trying to figure out how to make it better 23:28:56 How to do OOP in Forth? 23:29:09 however you want 23:29:22 --- join: hovil (~hovil@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 23:29:26 why would you ever want to :/ 23:29:49 choose an oop implementation you like, or write your own 23:30:52 :) 23:31:16 herkforth is my favorite programming languages 23:31:34 shouldn't be suprising, I took what I liked from other languages 23:32:11 Is herkforth available for download? 23:32:28 yeah, but I should warn you that it only runs on PPC under linux :) 23:32:36 http://herkamire.com/jason/herkforth 23:33:06 I'm working on adding a multiplayer action game :) 23:33:07 Oh, I'm using an x86 Linux box. :( 23:34:10 well, bedtime for me 23:34:54 nite. :) 23:36:21 What would you do if you know for sure that you could not fail? 23:38:34 I don't understand the question. 23:39:27 what would you do if you could be sure it would work 23:39:33 Well, if you know that everything you do would be successfull, what would you like to do the most? 23:39:54 I'd create a utopia on earth full of peace loving groovy people 23:40:12 hovil: me too :) 23:40:21 cool. :) 23:40:26 but what about drama! 23:40:39 we wouldn't be human without something to complain about ;) 23:40:53 --- quit: Herkamire ("sleeeep gooood") 23:44:07 What do you fear the most? 23:44:11 yeoh: I don't know what `it' refers to in your sentence. 23:44:52 yeoh: My inability to concentrate for extended periods of time on a single focus. 23:44:53 kc5tja: which sentence? 23:45:32 Oops, that was Herkamire's sentence. 23:46:12 I think it means whatever you wanted to do. 23:47:11 All I know is that I'm really broke right now. 23:47:20 With no immediate reparation in sight. 23:47:45 Once I receive the loans my family and friends are giving me, I'll be an additional $750 in debt. 23:49:16 And that still does not pay off all of my expenses, now that I think about it. >:( 23:49:19 * kc5tja sighs 23:49:35 I too have been bordering on the "broke" level for nearly four years now. 23:49:49 Bordering? 23:49:53 I'm not bordering. 23:49:58 I **AM** broke. 23:50:17 I'm so far below the poverty line that being in poverty is as good as being wealthy to me. 23:51:00 Somehow I gotta find ways to pull myself up to a higher level. 23:51:26 Getting into more debt is not a good idea. 23:52:19 --- topic: set to 'A channel dedicated to the Forth programming language, its implications, its application, and its philosophy. :UPDATE: Donations for development work on the ForthBox Kestrel are being accepted! Donations towards development will be applied to the final purchase price. Please see http://www.falvotech.com/weblog for more details.' by kc5tja 23:52:24 I have no choice. 23:52:29 It's where this fucked up country of mine put me. 23:52:39 which country? 23:57:21 USA of course. 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.04.21