00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.04.15
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00:06:31 <yeoh> Well, its back to more coding for me. :)
00:09:57 <arke> :)
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03:27:13 <Serg> a friend of mine said on Kestrel: is it valven Spectrum falling apiece ?
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05:03:11 * arke is away: sleep
05:03:13 <arke> tathi: aww, you come as I go to sleep XD
05:03:19 <arke> tathi: write me an email chris@waltoncity.com :)
05:03:51 * arke is away: sleep
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06:53:50 <mur> gety
06:53:53 <mur> hey
06:53:54 <mur> i mean
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07:03:05 <networm> hi
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10:57:25 <slava> y0
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11:17:02 <slava> Herkamire!
11:17:07 <arke> Hi'
11:17:20 <slava> hey arke'
11:17:48 <arke> :)
11:17:51 <arke> whats new?
11:17:58 <arke> (jedit comes with SuSE, cool!)
11:18:28 <Herkamire> howdy :)
11:51:35 <SDO> oh, for those that give a crud, here is the BeFORTH site yet once again...  http://beforth.dyndns.org:8080
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12:32:44 <Robert> Hi I440r 
12:33:10 <I440r> hi
12:33:13 <I440r> :)
12:44:24 <qFox> that is one ugly site.
13:08:35 <I440r> what ?
13:20:44 <hovil> check out my new place
13:20:49 <hovil> http://hovil.customer.netspace.net.au/corrymeelaa4.gif
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13:39:01 <Herkamire> why do people save photographs as GIFs?
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13:39:40 <Herkamire> hovil: nice place
13:41:05 <hovil> Herkamire, to space vs quality tradeoff I imagine
13:41:59 <hovil> though gifs is a bad format, even taking that into consideration.
13:48:06 <Herkamire> gifs have really crappy compression on photographs
13:48:37 <Herkamire> that's what jpegs are for
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15:15:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja
15:40:49 <arke> hi kc
15:44:21 <qFox> kc5tja> i'm having a bit of trouble with my processor emulator for the p24, specificly counting. 
15:44:23 <qFox> that sound silly
15:44:52 <qFox> but the background handling of my data counters, is with a simple calc function (lets just say math)
15:45:19 <qFox> 50+50 is 100, 90000000000000000000000 + 90000000000000000000000 = 180000000000000000000000
15:45:25 <qFox> etc
15:46:26 <qFox> the cpu loops, the p24, with 24bit, turns at f00000 to negative
15:46:40 <qFox> but i'm a bit confused at the exact behaviour
15:47:14 <qFox> like, say i add 0xE00000 to 0x200000 in the registers, what should be the exact result?
15:48:26 <tathi> qFox: your T is actually 25-bits (has an extra bit for the carry)?
15:48:30 <qFox> yes
15:48:48 <qFox> was about to mention that :)
15:49:01 <kc5tja> The exact result will be negative, because the high-bit (the sign bit) is set.
15:49:16 <qFox> so 0x1E00000 ?
15:49:18 <kc5tja> I recommend reading up on how 2's compliment numbers works.
15:49:20 <tathi> 0x1000000
15:49:40 <qFox> i know how they work, i'm just confused how the cpu should behave :\
15:50:02 <kc5tja> It should behave exactly according to the rules of binary addition, which 2's compliment takes advantage of.
15:50:13 <qFox> like, when i use mirc's base converter, from -10 to binary, it'll give me -01010 :\
15:50:20 <qFox> uhm, -101 actually
15:50:40 <qFox> with no way to convert that to a signed number with no - prefix
15:50:48 <qFox> (except scripted ofc)
15:51:08 <kc5tja> qFox: It's incorrect.  You should get 111....11110110.
15:51:19 <kc5tja> Where the .... means however many 1s are required to fill your word size.
15:51:32 <qFox> yes i understand, but i was explaining my problem and reason for having to know this
15:51:33 <kc5tja> Either that, or -1010.
15:51:38 <qFox> mirc returns -1010
15:51:58 <kc5tja> qFox: OK, then that's right.  
15:51:59 <qFox> i "need" the answer you gave me 
15:52:04 <qFox> for the cpu
15:52:27 <kc5tja> qFox: It's just a matter of representation.  The binary value inside the CPU doesn't know that it's being interpreted as signed or unsigned.
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16:04:04 <qFox> and output?
16:04:13 <qFox> how.... does a normal cpu do output? 
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16:04:29 <qFox> does it do native 80x24 ascii?
16:05:15 <qFox> or something similar, how should it get what to output? by polling a specific area in the memmory? 
16:05:55 <arke> eh...
16:06:19 <arke> mov [framebuffer*column+row], byte
16:06:20 <arke> =D
16:07:00 <qFox> so the cpu has an internal ascii table, and automaticly starts in 80x24?
16:07:25 <kc5tja> qFox: The microprocessor writes to memory.
16:07:42 <kc5tja> Certain regions of memory are treated by external hardware as I/O devices.
16:07:50 <kc5tja> I thought I already explained this?
16:08:04 <qFox> hm, to me?
16:08:11 <kc5tja> Yes.
16:08:15 <qFox> oh, sorry :\
16:08:38 <kc5tja> Anyway, it's the external hardware that is responsible for treating writes to memory as commands, or the contents of memory as displayable data.
16:08:51 <kc5tja> The memory comprising the video display, for example, is just ordinary, every-day RAM.
16:09:00 <kc5tja> Nothing special about it at all (except that it's particularly fast).
16:09:12 <kc5tja> It's the video card's chipset that interprets that data as something to display.
16:09:42 <arke> :)
16:09:55 <arke> yes, yes, I remember these discussions.... :)
16:10:08 <kc5tja> It's funny.  I download XEmacs to use, and I still find myself using VIM.
16:10:48 <arke> ...
16:10:48 <arke> omg
16:10:52 <arke> kc5tja: format harddrive
16:10:54 <arke> kc5tja: now
16:10:57 <arke> kc5tja: it has been tainted
16:10:58 <kc5tja> arke: Not necessary.
16:11:05 <arke> XD
16:11:26 <kc5tja> I kind of need to know how to use it, because some jobs require you to be "multi-editor-talented," so to speak.
16:11:35 <kc5tja> Well, nto 'need' to know, but it'd be nice to know.
16:11:55 <qFox> "sure you're good, but he knows that too"
16:12:18 <qFox> hm that can be misinterpreted
16:12:35 <qFox> "sure you're good, but he knows that on top of what you know"
16:12:36 <qFox> bla
16:12:59 <arke> bleh
16:13:23 <arke> ctrl+x ctrl+c is all you need to know
16:13:46 <arke> CTRL-X CTRL-C YES <ENTER> VI
16:13:47 <arke> :)
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16:15:48 <arke> hi wossname
16:15:55 <wossname> hey arke
16:15:57 <wossname> whats in the news
16:20:39 <arke> frapiar going well
16:20:47 <arke> gonna get one hell of a paycheck in a weel
16:20:55 <arke> school sucks
16:20:58 <arke> thats about it
16:21:23 <wossname> frapier
16:21:25 <wossname> paycheck for wut
16:21:32 <kc5tja> Awesome.  My new web page is up, and I have the spam trap in place.
16:21:56 <wossname> spam trap == magic filter, 
16:22:01 <wossname> or a device to stab spammers in the face
16:22:54 <kc5tja> wossname: The latter.  Go to http://www.falvotech.com/ and find the magic, hidden link.  It's at the very bottom of the page, below the XHTML badge.  Then click on it.  :)
16:23:33 <qFox> hm
16:23:36 <qFox> i'm sure you wont care
16:23:42 <qFox> but the site is a bit buggy in explorer
16:23:49 <qFox> or whatever you will call it
16:23:52 <wossname> woah
16:24:00 <wossname> explain what this will do to spammers
16:24:05 <qFox> there's a horizontal scrollbar for no reason anyways
16:24:12 <wossname> i'm afraid to click on the sublinks
16:24:14 <qFox> which wont go away, no matter how wide i make it
16:24:44 <tathi> kc5tja: lol
16:24:44 <kc5tja> qFox: No, sorry, it is Explorer that is a bit buggy.
16:24:52 <arke> kc5tja: !?!?
16:24:54 <arke> kc5tja: lol
16:25:14 <kc5tja> My site is 100% certified against W3C's XHTML standard, which all web browsers do support (including Explorer).
16:25:22 <kc5tja> But Explorer is a bit wonky in HOW it supports it.
16:25:31 <kc5tja> wossname: It's OK to click on the sublinks.
16:25:49 <kc5tja> It generates an infinite series of garbage webpages, with garbage links leading to garbage e-mail addresses.
16:25:57 <tathi> "goose is Ypsilanti!"
16:25:58 <kc5tja> All are even fully qualified with mailto: protocols too.
16:26:00 <qFox> oh its random
16:26:01 <qFox> heh
16:26:03 <qFox> nice
16:26:03 <qFox> :p
16:26:10 <kc5tja> Yep.  Completely random.
16:26:42 <wossname> christ, that would kill wget
16:26:48 <qFox> :p
16:26:52 <wossname> i'm tempted to wget -r your site
16:27:59 <qFox> kc5tja> how much bandwidth would it create if someone was attempting to completely download it
16:28:09 <qFox> so continously leech the cgi pages
16:28:29 <qFox> would your spamtrap not be a waste of bw?
16:28:32 <kc5tja> qFox: It would probably generate more than the site could handle.
16:28:46 <qFox> arent you afraid it will?
16:28:54 <kc5tja> Until it becomes a problem, no.
16:28:56 <qFox> also, put in a robot.txt for google :p
16:29:02 * arke considers...
16:29:06 <kc5tja> qFox: Good point.
16:29:08 <qFox> no need to annoy those
16:29:10 <arke> whats robot.txt?
16:29:33 <qFox> its a file some search engines, like google, reads for pages to ignore while cataloging a site
16:29:38 <qFox> or whatever it is called
16:29:44 <qFox> harvesting
16:29:46 <qFox> :p
16:34:31 <arke> crawling
16:38:46 <kc5tja> Uploading the robots.txt file now.
16:38:49 <arke> :)
16:39:03 <qFox> where'd you get the syntax so quickly?
16:39:24 <qFox> i know of the existence and use for robot.txt but dont know details :)
16:39:52 <kc5tja> qFox: Google is my friend.  :)
16:39:57 <qFox> :)
16:39:58 <kc5tja> http://www.robotstxt.org/wc/norobots.html
16:42:28 <arke> cool
16:42:42 <arke> off to flip burgers
16:43:36 <kc5tja> Good luck.
16:43:41 * arke is away: work at McDonalds is fun, because the life of a fellow human being's immune system depends upon YOU!
16:44:31 <kc5tja> Well, likewise at INO.
16:44:39 <kc5tja> And we don't even wear gloves!
16:45:40 <Robert> Don't wash your hands either, that's just humbug.
16:45:57 <kc5tja> No, we wash our hands!
16:46:09 <kc5tja> We are as clean as a hospital in there!
16:46:20 <kc5tja> Where'd you get the idea that we didn't wash our hands?
16:47:06 <Robert> Heh.
16:59:47 <kc5tja> YES!
16:59:54 <kc5tja> This contact to Australia thing is pretty reliable, it seems.
17:00:01 <Robert> Bah.
17:00:02 <Robert> Unfair!
17:00:10 <kc5tja> and we tried some CW today, and it rocks.  WAY better than USB.
17:00:11 <Robert> No 10m openings up here.
17:00:23 <kc5tja> Robert: well, it helps that I live next to an ocean.  :)
17:00:26 <kc5tja> Literally.  
17:00:40 <kc5tja> But the 10m opening isn't all that great.
17:00:45 <kc5tja> Lots and lots and lots of fading.
17:00:47 <Robert> Better than nothing.
17:00:57 <Robert> Heh. As if I didn't have that on all bands. ;)
17:01:03 <kc5tja> Robert: I suspect you probably have an opening too; it's just that you don't have enough power to use it.
17:01:08 * kc5tja is JUST BARELY at the minimum power required.
17:01:21 <Robert> If I had, wouldn't I hear people there then?
17:01:26 <Robert> I hear _nothing_
17:02:05 <Robert> And I can't hear too many people on 20m or 40m either. My DX record is the middle of Russia, otherwise Europe only.
17:02:50 <Robert> Of course I don't have the best of equipment/antenna. But I think the conditions are part of it too...
17:03:53 <kc5tja> DEPENDS ON ANTENNA A 
17:03:56 <kc5tja> LOT.
17:04:03 <kc5tja> WTF?
17:04:25 <Robert> Huh?
17:04:44 <kc5tja> Not sure how my keyboard got into caps-lock mode.
17:04:45 <Robert> Typing while keying? ;)
17:04:46 <kc5tja> That's *weird*.
17:04:48 <Robert> Hehe
17:04:54 <kc5tja> I wonder if it's the 100W.  :D
17:05:29 <Robert> But since I hear pretty weak and distant statoins (and can reach them too, with just 5W) I think the equipment isn't THAT bad.
17:06:06 <kc5tja> I know, I'm just saying.
17:06:09 --- quit: qFox ("if at first you dont succeed, quit again")
17:06:18 <kc5tja> My ability to get out is actually at QRP levels, even though my rig is pumping out 100W.
17:06:26 <kc5tja> So that should tell you a lot about my current antenna setup.  :)
17:06:37 <kc5tja> I've been hitting Australia on 8 to 12W of power for the last three days, which is nice.
17:06:47 <kc5tja> We're trying for an RST exchange on 10m now.
17:06:55 * kc5tja is waiting for him to set up his key.  :)
17:06:56 <Robert> Yep. Good conditions!
17:07:05 <Robert> Hehe. Don't drop any more books.
17:07:10 <kc5tja> Still, I'm really upset about the power loss in my antennas.
17:07:15 <kc5tja> Yeah.
17:07:18 <kc5tja> :)
17:07:23 <kc5tja> It was my 65816 programmers manual too.  :D
17:07:28 <Robert> _In_ the antenna?
17:07:33 <Robert> What kind of losses are that?
17:08:44 <Robert> ehm, or i
17:08:45 <Robert> is*
17:10:12 <kc5tja> The antenna is not resonant on 10m.
17:10:16 <kc5tja> So there will be area-effect losses.
17:10:20 <kc5tja> The tuner represents a loss.
17:10:26 <kc5tja> The connections TO the antenna are losses.
17:10:30 <kc5tja> Etc.
17:10:36 <kc5tja> A dB here and a dB there all add up.
17:12:24 <Robert> Didn't know it wss THAT bad.
17:12:39 <Robert> I guess I have a pretty decent efficiency. Not with the loop though
17:14:44 <kc5tja> Well, if I had the real-estate, I could eliminate a lot of losses.
17:15:02 <kc5tja> A properly sized antenna would be resonant, and therefore not have any significant losses for me.
17:15:16 <kc5tja> The use of 450-ohm ladder line would cut line losses by a factor of 10m.
17:15:18 <kc5tja> err
17:15:21 <kc5tja> 10 rather.  :)
17:15:52 <kc5tja> Ideally, very simple auto-transformers can be used instead of pi-network tuners, again to minimize losses, etc.
17:16:13 <Robert> I read about some guy who did US - Europe with 50mW.
17:16:35 <kc5tja> Unfortunately, I live close to downtown San Diego, in suburbia, where a full-sized antenna would be grounds for having me exiled from the city.
17:16:36 <Robert> That's 20dB below me. 
17:17:05 <Robert> :(
17:17:30 <kc5tja> As I watch the people walking by my front yard, my antenna already draws a lot of attention, attention I'd rather not have.
17:17:35 <kc5tja> Fortunately, nobody has yet complained.
17:18:12 <Robert> Why would they? As long as you don't fry their pets/TVs...
17:18:52 <kc5tja> Because it devalues the property.
17:19:14 <Robert> Heh.
17:19:16 <kc5tja> And if it devalues the property, their land ownership investment goes down, which means they end up losing cash (like a stock market player would lose cash if a stock went down).
17:20:05 <Robert> Why not paint yourself black just to see the value sink further?
17:20:09 <Robert> I bet they'd like that
17:31:04 <Frek> so does it run on MOS ? 
17:31:14 <Frek> blah
17:31:16 <Frek> wrong chan
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17:46:49 <fridge> kc5tja: mark slicker misreads a lot of your posts
17:47:02 <fridge> and gets quite annoyed at them it seems
17:47:08 <kc-away> Yep.
17:47:21 * kc-away is *still* waiting for his roommie to tag along to get food.  >:(
17:47:26 <kc-away> If it's much longer, I'm going alone.
17:47:49 <kc-away> fridge: He really does have major problems with the English language.
17:47:51 <kc-away> It's very sad.
17:47:56 <kc-away> He's so intelligent otherwise.
17:48:00 <kc-away> re SDO
17:48:11 <kc-away> SDO: Check out my new site design; http://www.falvotech.com
17:56:13 <kc-away> Rebuttal posted.  He definitely has problems.
17:56:21 <kc-away> I'm very inclined to remove myself from the ColorForth mailing list now.
17:56:30 <kc-away> I really don't have the time to deal with his mental inadequacies.
18:17:23 <tathi> you could just ignore him...couldn't you?
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19:01:18 <madgarden> Has anyone here heard about the Ludumdare 48-hour game development contest that's happening this weekend?
19:17:05 <fridge> nope
19:21:28 <madgarden> Here's the slashdot blurb on it: http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/28/1713214&mode=thread&tid=127&tid=186
19:40:20 --- nick: kc-away -> kc5tja
19:40:45 <kc5tja> tathi: I would be happy to, if he would just reciprocate.
19:41:02 <kc5tja> madgarden: Nope.
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19:43:24 <madgarden> Somebody should enter. ;)
19:43:42 <madgarden> (aside from me)
19:45:39 <madgarden> One idea I had, that would work for some of the possible themes, is a chess-like game using logic gates.
19:50:02 <SDO> kc5tja, nice job, make the sentence not end 'with'.
19:50:03 <SDO> :)
19:50:08 <SDO> bbl
19:50:36 <kc5tja> ??
19:50:58 <SDO> [00:13] <kc-away> SDO: Check out my new site design; http://www.falvotech.com
19:51:16 <SDO> [21:40] *** kc-away is now known as kc5tja.
19:52:55 <kc5tja> I'm still confuased.
20:15:48 <madgarden> So how playable does this sound...
20:16:23 <SDO> sounds pretty darn quiet
20:16:30 <madgarden> 2 players on a board, a + rail at one end, a - rail at the other.
20:17:04 <madgarden> Each player takes turn placing traces and logic gates, and they each have one "tube".
20:17:13 <madgarden> The goal... power your tube.
20:17:22 <kc5tja> SDO: Sorry, I'm kind of hacking on code for a client, while simultaneously trying to achieve a morse code contact from USA to Australia, and neither is happening.  :)
20:19:34 <SDO> lol
20:19:38 <SDO> good luck on the code contact.
20:19:45 <SDO> it is fun to do code with folks you just meet.
20:20:55 <kc5tja> SDO: Well, I made voice contact three times in a row, so now we're doing some other things.  :)  The contact with voice wasn't as reliable as we'd like, so we were hoping to get some morse code going.  Unfortunately, that's even *worse* as far as reliability is concerned, which is baffling.  We're not sure why.
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20:30:09 <arke> Hello favorite IRC channel!
20:30:53 <arke> Hello kc5tja, smart nice guy, Robert, funny, smart, yet sarcastic guy, madgarden, funny, and stupid (like me!), and everybody else of course, you all contriute to make this the best IRC channel ever
20:31:20 <kc5tja> We try our best to deliver only the highest quality nonsense possible.
20:32:11 <arke> indeed you have succeeded. #Forth is the number 1 in nonsensical content deliverance around the globe. 
20:33:05 <madgarden> Hmm... does the funny balance out the stupid? I hope so...
20:33:08 <arke> #Forth is around the world, too. Several prominent companies, such as McDonalds and In'n'Out Burger profit from #Forth.
20:33:29 <arke> But #Forth does not end there.
20:34:08 <arke> #Forth provides high-quality education in type-lessness and stack languages, and does its best to educate in the matter of Adam Chlipala
20:35:18 <arke> In fact, #Forth is the most respected education and anti-advocation body of Adam Chlipala in the world.
20:35:39 <kc5tja> Who is Adam Chlipala?
20:35:47 <arke> smerdy
20:36:19 <arke> Also, I shall stop now/.
20:42:47 <SDO> kc5tja, good luck, hack hack dash dash...
20:42:49 <SDO> night all.
20:43:48 <arke> nbight SDO
20:43:54 <arke> heh
20:43:58 <arke> I almost wrote "SCO"
20:44:03 <arke> C is below D o.O
20:44:37 <kc5tja> Hehe
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20:46:14 <arke> ye00000000h
20:46:34 <yeoh> hi arke. :)
20:48:26 <arke> :)
20:48:28 <arke> wrong
20:48:33 <arke> you should have said
20:48:39 <arke> 4rk3333
20:49:08 <yeoh> What's 4rk3333?
21:20:16 <yeoh> See you later, arke. :) Bye.
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21:41:00 <fridge> what a strapping young lad
21:45:17 <kc5tja> :)
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23:07:03 <warpzero> hey gusy
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23:07:09 <warpzero> should i write a paper on fourth
23:07:12 <warpzero> er
23:07:13 <warpzero> forth
23:07:22 <arke> yeah
23:07:24 <arke> you should
23:07:26 <arke> definetely
23:07:26 <warpzero> okay
23:07:30 <arke> and I'll help you too
23:07:34 <warpzero> sweeeet
23:07:50 <warpzero> i need a good reference and some good existing papers on it first i think
23:10:06 <arke> whats it gonna be on?
23:10:38 <warpzero> comparisons to other languages, features, applications
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23:12:45 <arke> Coolness.
23:15:08 <warpzero> It should probably start with a description eh.
23:21:07 <arke> :)
23:36:07 <warpzero> write me a demonstration subroutine for demonstrating forth subroutines
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.04.15