00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.04.11 00:25:07 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 00:30:16 --- join: madgarden_ (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576712.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 00:30:17 --- quit: madgarden (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:15:15 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 05:45:59 --- quit: scope (Client Quit) 05:46:24 --- join: scope (~junk@202.0.37.69) joined #forth 07:11:10 --- join: networm (~networm@L0628P02.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 08:36:34 --- join: kuvos (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 08:37:27 --- part: kuvos left #forth 08:46:20 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@workstations.pinnaclesports.com) joined #forth 09:09:32 --- join: blockhead (default@dialin-28-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 09:55:10 --- join: thin (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 09:55:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 09:57:27 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 09:57:39 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 10:01:44 wow you just joined 2 mins after i did :) 10:08:41 Cool. 10:08:43 * kc5tja just woke up. 10:10:17 same 10:11:10 * kc5tja is still working on the datasheet for the FTS1002 chip design. 10:39:21 I'm starting to have some second thoughts on the architecture of the Kestrel. 10:39:42 I just ran into a situation where a slow device on the bus will wreck pure havoc with the DMA engine for the video circuitry. 10:39:50 :o 10:39:54 --- quit: ianp` (Remote closed the connection) 10:40:33 If I write code which accesses a slow device, say, something that inserts even only one wait-state, that'll delay the video DMA fetches by *two* cycles (because of how the DMA engine works). 10:40:56 This delays the video data by two pixels, and therefore, the screen will get 2-pixel-wide black dots on it when repeatedly accessing slow hardware. 10:41:33 This will definitely happen when accessing ROM, for example. 10:41:47 Only ROM has a HUGE number of wait-states: 10 to be specific (leaving 11-pixel wide gaps on the screen). 10:41:53 mmmm, that will give it a spectrum feel :D 10:42:05 blockhead: More like a TRS-80 Model I feel 10:42:19 The TRS-80 is well known for its video "snow." 10:42:44 They fixed that bug with the Model III (unsure about the Model II). 10:42:50 Anyway, it's irrelavent. 10:43:16 I was really hoping to avoid having to renovate the architecture, because now I need to support a distinct fast- and chip-RAM, just like the Amiga did. 10:43:17 gtotta go. H.E. everyone 10:43:23 H.E.? 10:43:38 happ y easter 10:43:40 --- quit: blockhead ("Client Exiting") 10:43:43 Oh. 10:43:54 --- join: ianp` (nobody@c-24-13-109-164.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:44:27 The nice thing about supporting the split buses is this: I can use slower SRAMs. :) 10:45:23 Would 256KB of video memory be sufficient? 10:49:24 The only major problem is that accessing DMA-accessible RAM would involve cycle-stealing; e.g., the CPU would gain access to the chip memory only when the DMA engine was idle. 10:50:34 This means a 16-color low-res display or a 4-color hi-res display, both audio channels going at full rate, AND the PIB transferring data will cause the CPU to have to wait at least until the horizontal sync period to touch video memory. 10:51:18 Fortunately, the PIB will never approach 12.6MBps, and so, will never saturate its DMA channel. And unless you're pathological about audio oversampling, neither will the audio channels. Still, though, they will have a small, perhaps even detectable, impact on CPU performance. 10:53:23 Damn, I hate having to deal with different bus domains. But I can see no other way around this one. :/ 11:04:09 hm anyone know waht a "fruit booter" is? 11:04:32 i love these games that when they give you assignments you have no clue what to do :p 11:10:54 right 11:10:57 its a skateboarder 11:10:58 heh 11:12:05 ? 11:35:26 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:37:34 --- join: dasbear (~chatzilla@adsl-64-219-100-33.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 11:39:04 --- part: dasbear left #forth 11:48:31 Well, 60ns RAM is a *LOT* easier to purchase and is cheaper than 30ns RAM; I'm going to have to go with the split bus solution. 12:11:33 --- quit: qFox ("if at first you dont succeed, quit again") 12:14:51 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 12:19:04 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 12:24:48 --- quit: warpzero (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 12:28:06 --- part: networm left #forth 12:35:08 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 12:48:59 --- quit: ChanServ (Shutting Down) 12:49:42 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 12:49:42 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 12:56:15 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE00096ba44261-CM000e5cdfda14.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 13:02:47 --- join: jma (jma@dialup-4.228.165.95.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net) joined #forth 13:03:36 --- quit: warpzero ("Tried to warn you about Chino and Daddy Gee, but I can't seem to get to you through the U.S. Mail.") 13:03:44 --- quit: jma (Client Quit) 13:04:20 --- join: crc (crc@169-pool1.ras11.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) joined #forth 13:06:40 --- quit: crc (Client Quit) 13:18:16 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-MTL-ppp60487.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:18:21 wossname, 13:18:26 whats up 13:18:43 reading, surfing, lazing about 13:19:59 Hi wossname 13:20:34 evening robert 13:20:39 how goes 13:21:17 Fine, fine... 13:21:37 Reading anything good? 13:22:01 networks by tanenbaum 13:22:26 2nd chapter, on physical data links. i think i might be getting the radio stuff :l 13:22:32 omg, non-fiction 13:22:43 bah, even wossname needs facts sometimes 13:23:02 i expect you're working on three books at once as usual ~_% 13:23:02 I don't. 13:23:11 Actually.. no. 13:23:26 Just one I think 13:23:31 taking a break? eh 13:23:54 :D 13:23:57 any chance of code in the near future? :p 13:24:09 Yes - IF you give me a good enough idea. 13:24:35 i still say you should get yourself a nice book on advanced algorithms 13:24:44 they are full of ideas 13:25:03 It's better when you do all the reading work and present the good ideas to me 13:26:26 :( 13:26:39 * slava starts first steps towards file compilation in factor (where compiled results are saved in an 'image' file; right now the entire library is recompiled on startup.) 13:26:55 wossname: Don't just sit there, give me ideas! 13:27:17 here, then: using a handful of small PICs, write a forth-oriented virtual machine for them and then design a network involving both copper and radio data links. use graph algorithms for determining best path for data packets to follow 13:27:41 goal of network: to play as many games of net-tictactoe as possible at once 13:28:35 :D 13:29:17 this is a great misuse of computing resources, is it not? and a fine chance to practice both code and physical engineering 13:29:36 but perhaps too grand to actual get done :~ 13:29:54 Yes :( 13:30:32 Hmm.. one thing that's actually doable is this PC keyboard + matrix printer computer 13:30:38 Would be fun, too. 13:30:46 If I only could find a PS1 contact 13:30:49 :p 13:30:58 that's a doable project, but kind of crazy 13:31:10 Why? 13:31:13 what will you do, play rogue on your printer? 13:31:31 Code example programs to prove it's possible :P 13:31:56 write a telnet for it and start up screen-oriented editors remotely from exotic unix systems? 13:32:16 or, write `echo'. 13:32:27 :~) 13:33:50 XD 13:33:59 Just updated the preliminary data sheet for the FTS1002. 13:34:06 The whole point of it is to NOT need a terminal. 13:34:09 I now have all the CPU registers documented. 13:35:03 kc5tja, still tee'd off at me and ignoring my text? 13:35:36 The next thing I need to do is draw timing diagrams. And that is not something I'm looking forward to. :/ 13:50:41 rob, here's a bit of awful humor: http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2083 13:53:39 * Robert checks 14:13:09 Cool. Let me know what you think. 14:13:34 Ehm. Are you by any chance ignoring wossname? 14:14:25 Yes. 14:15:03 Sorry; thought you were talking to me when you said "Robert checks." 14:15:49 Nope. Sorry for the confusion 15:01:36 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:02:08 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 15:06:32 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 15:41:14 I'm going to murder someone. 15:41:22 I have no choice in the matter. 15:41:24 --- quit: thin ("leaving") 15:41:32 woah 15:41:36 Death is all that can bring relief to me now. 15:41:56 it's good i'm safe! :) 15:41:58 The FUCKING GOD DAMNED MORONS responsible for OpenOffice have made their graphics support utterly worthless. 15:42:09 It can't read EPS files. 15:42:20 Grid snapping doesn't work in ITS OWN drawing package. 15:42:27 It doesn't support poly-lines. 15:42:35 It's fucking worthless. 15:42:40 Fucking, totally, utterly worthless. 15:42:43 I wasted six hours. 15:42:53 Six hours of my life that I will NEVER, EVER, EVER see again. 15:43:09 Now the fucking dick heads responsible for this must die. 15:43:11 That's all there is to it. 15:43:39 I mean, all they have to do is just **USE** the tool (even for something so basic as drawing a simple happy face), and they will immediately see how utterly fucking useless their software is. 15:44:30 All I want to do is draw some straight lines, aligned to a simple grid, on a page. 15:44:41 That is *ALL I WANT TO FUCKING DO!!!!!!!!!!!!! 15:44:48 How can someone FUCK THAT UP? 15:45:21 I mean, my grandmother, who doesn't know a computer keyboard from a pin-cushion, could have written the code to support this. 15:45:41 How is it possible that the FUCKING RETARDS at OpenOffice can't support something so simple? 15:46:13 I've known more intelligent vegetables in my lif.e 15:46:29 I lack the fucking vocabulary to adequately express how utterly used I feel right now. 15:46:51 I notice that 15:47:21 180MB of code, and I can't draw a fucking straight line on a page. 15:47:24 What the HELL is that? 15:47:37 hehe 16:01:39 bad compression. 16:02:52 180 mb of code, for real 16:03:38 openoffice is a large thing 16:03:51 how does that compare to microsoft office 16:03:55 i like abiword 16:04:02 microsoft office is a larger thing 16:04:11 but it supports all of the ms office document types 99% 16:04:18 whereas openoffice is probably down around 80% 16:05:31 ms office has poor wordperfect support :l 16:05:41 i still holdout and use wpd 16:10:56 wossname: I'm using OO because it exports directly to PDF, and has excellent quality PDF output. 16:12:31 i guess the only alternative to pdf is ps, and it isn't popular enough 16:13:10 btw, thank you for forgiving me :D no more stupid in #forth to offend you 16:13:34 wossname: PS files are rather on the big side too. :) 16:13:57 I didn't mean to /ignore you for weeks. :) I just forgot. 16:14:26 i hope i'm not in anybody's /ignore list :) 16:14:31 My previous client (X-Chat) could be configured to drop /ignore listings when you quit, which is how I had it set up. I don't think irssi is so forgiving. 16:15:32 irssi is to x-chat as the emporer is to darth vader, i see 16:19:18 Heh 16:19:21 Feel the power. 16:20:11 i am your father! 16:20:16 give yourself to the dark side! 16:23:01 Give yourself to the dark side! Or else, you'll be sent to your room, with no dinner for tonight. 16:42:08 --- quit: ChanServ (Shutting Down) 16:42:08 kc5tja nobdy told you yet? the dark side was canceled... appearantly microsoft took over ... 16:42:19 now its just good against microsoft... 16:42:23 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 16:42:23 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 16:43:30 qFox: OpenOffice uses OLE for its compound document infrastructure. Does that count as the dark side? 16:43:52 did microsoft release it? 16:44:47 The OLE documentation has been public for quite some time. Otherwise, nobody could write OLE-compatible applications. 16:45:21 tough case 16:46:58 now wtf is a scores bouncer 16:47:11 damnit this game is really testing my english bmx skater skills 16:47:12 :p 16:47:30 "find stuff in lingo with no map or directions" oh joy 16:50:03 Heh 16:50:09 I have no clue either; I'm not into bmx. 16:50:23 got the game with my gamecube 16:50:26 might as well play it 16:50:45 its a tony hawk kinda game (exactly almost exactly the same, except TH HAD A FUCKING MAP) 16:51:02 hmm the first exactly should be an actually ;) 17:40:36 kc5tja, I realized earlier that a wiki is the perfect device with which to implement a Choose Your Own Adventure. 17:41:54 --- quit: madgarden_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:45:16 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576712.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 17:45:29 madgarden: How so? 17:47:55 Well... assuming the wiki supports subpages... you just create a wiki page as the main page of the adventure... ChooseYourOwnAdventure... and then you start writing. At the end of the passage, you list the choices, each with a /page link. 17:49:45 - If you decide to run from the zombies by climbing out the window, go to /page12 17:49:45 - If you stay and fight the zombies, go to /page13 17:49:45 - If you ignore the zombies because they can't possibly exist, go to /page64 17:49:53 kc5tja> how much do these wiki's get screwed over by malicious visitors? 17:50:13 qFox: That depends on too many factors to answer. 17:50:22 i mean in general? 17:50:25 Portland Pattern Repository, the very first Wiki, hardly ever gets messed with. 17:50:40 Others have major problems with vandalism. 17:50:44 admins can roll them back 17:50:50 If the wiki has a revisioning feature, it's pretty much pointness to try to mess it up. 17:50:51 It all depends on the site, and its "Vandal" appeal. 17:51:09 wossname: Not all Wikis support CVS or other RCS integration. 17:51:22 best vanadalism i ever saw was changing history of lenin to "filthy communist", but it was still pretty juvenile 17:51:38 shame, the versioning is one of the best features of the wikis i use 17:52:22 PPR still doesn't use CVS. It's such a popular Wiki, that it doesn't need to. The community that supports it virtually guarantees instantaneous clean-up of vandalous content. 17:52:32 Usemod simply uses diff to manage revisions, and it's nicely vandal resisitant. 17:53:20 besides being too lazy to upgrade, why wouldn't somebody run a wiki with some form of diff support? surely there are tools to migrate wiki content 17:54:07 --- quit: qFox ("if at first you dont succeed, quit again") 17:54:21 Philosophical belief -- Ward doesn't like the idea of CVS integration with his Wiki because he feels it would violate the principles of simplicity for Wiki software. 17:55:48 wossname, I found a standalone wiki-webserver written in C++ that's great for personal use, and something like that doesn't really need revision support. There's a way to backup the content of the wiki into one data file if you really needed to. 17:55:50 i can understand the appeal of software simplicity 17:56:06 is there any wiki written in forth? :) 17:56:14 slava: No. 17:57:32 slava: just a forum 17:57:37 yforum 17:57:55 but its source has been removed 17:58:19 tho u can ask 4 it from its author.. 18:00:24 Hi onetom! 18:00:35 Long time no see.. I think 18:02:15 --- join: blockhead (default@dialin-69-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 18:02:22 4win 18:02:54 wrong window. woops 18:03:04 hey blockhead 18:03:54 yo slava. hows it going. 18:04:21 blockhead, good. writing some docs :) 18:06:02 good night #forth 18:06:08 --- quit: wossname ("0") 18:06:37 docs for factor? 18:06:56 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:10:09 blockhead, yes 18:10:24 Robert: hi. thats right. i was ill 4 2months, i have 2 do all those tasks i missed during my illness, i have my irssi misconfigured so it doesnt autoconnects #forth anymore ... 18:10:36 :( 18:10:42 That's no fun to hear 18:10:50 What happend to you? 18:11:16 Robert: beside that i have absolutely no time 2 play w 4th, tho i hate linux (& C of course) more&more 18:11:43 so i still dream about a forthOS all the time ;) 18:12:34 We all do.. ;) 18:12:46 onetom: Slowly, but surely, my Kestrel project progresses. 18:12:48 i had some lung problem 18:13:23 kc5tja: kestrel?!?!? things r progressing.. i havent even heard about that : 18:13:24 ) 18:13:30 kc5tja: url? 18:14:07 onetom: Well, some rather old and currently no longer accurate information on the Kestrel is found at http://www.falvotech.com/cgi/kestrel 18:17:35 aaha, me c 18:21:15 so, there is no software yet? 18:22:29 ? There is no HARDWARE yet. 18:22:35 How can there be software without hardware? 18:24:11 hint: simulator sw? ;) like the 1 4 p24 (or what) 18:24:35 onetom: If you're willing to spend a year hacking on it, be my guest. 18:24:56 I already tried to write a simulator for the 65816, and despite it being a trivial CPU design, it was still beyond my capabilities. 18:25:09 Screw that. I can build a functional circuit long before I can get a 65816 simulator running. 18:25:39 i wrote a pic simulator w a friend of mine in about a month... 18:26:05 in delphi 18:26:19 Wonderful. 18:26:23 Too bad a PIC != 65816. 18:26:45 okay, just fyi 18:26:51 I can write a MISC simulator in 16 minutes. 18:26:54 kc5tja, http://fld.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ChooseYourOwnAdventure 18:26:56 But that doesn't mean anything in this context. 18:27:00 :) 18:27:21 Just uploaded the most recent version of the data sheet. I now have 6502-mode bus read cycle timings filled in. 18:27:34 It took me *ALL DAY* to get just TWO timing diagrams drawn just so that it's readable. >:( 18:27:50 http://www.falvotech.com/datasheets/fts1002.pdf for those who are interested. 18:53:47 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@pc50dn1d.ppp.FCC.NET) joined #forth 18:53:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 18:53:51 hiya all 18:54:09 Greetings. 18:54:18 Hi TheBlueWizard 18:54:30 * kc5tja proudly spent 6.5 hours drawing only *two* timing diagrams (which should have taken me fifteen MINUTES). :( 18:55:34 hiya kc5tja and Robert 18:55:37 kc5tja: too many jelly beans :D 18:56:06 blockhead: Huh? 18:56:19 madgarden: Ahh, I finally got a chance to visit the link. Interesting. 18:56:33 stack effect composition: [a,b] * [c,d] = [a,d] + [max(0,c-b),max(0,b-c)] 18:56:33 [a,b] + [c,d] = [a+c,b+d] 18:56:41 it's more like a MUD than a single-user text adventure, only you can't talk to others sitting in the same "room." 19:04:10 kc5tja, well really, on a wiki it's just a story that anyone can add to. 19:04:21 I'd still say it's pretty much single-user. 19:04:31 It is just a wiki, after all. 19:12:58 Changes that I make to the story will affect what subsequent readers will read. 19:13:36 Therefore, what I do in the story has a direct consequence to what others experience. In that respect, it is more multi-user than most so-called multi-user games are. 19:49:31 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-167-210.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 20:22:33 gotta sleep...bye all 20:22:44 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 21:19:57 --- quit: ChanServ (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:19:57 --- quit: fridge (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:19:58 --- quit: blockhead (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:19:58 --- quit: warpzero (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:19:58 --- quit: o-- (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:19:58 --- quit: OrngeTide (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:20:08 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 21:20:08 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-167-210.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 21:20:08 --- join: blockhead (default@dialin-69-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 21:20:08 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 21:20:08 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 21:20:08 --- join: o-- (o@virgo.bombsquad.org) joined #forth 21:20:08 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 21:21:27 --- quit: madgarden (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:21:37 --- quit: blockhead ("Client Exiting") 21:21:43 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576712.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 21:27:54 Well, I'm off cooking. brb. 21:29:13 i've started writing an article about the factor compiler http://www.jedit.org/fcom.html 21:32:07 I've spent literally all day hacking on my FTS1002 preliminary data sheet. 22:20:50 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:24:25 --- join: yeoh (~yeoh@219.95.13.215) joined #forth 22:30:45 hi ! 22:31:07 i just had the most unlucky weekend in recent years ;) 22:32:53 i bought hurting shoes, smelly bag, camera w/ loose lens and , finally, smelly stifling shoes to replace hurting ones ;) 22:34:15 i also re-cut the film "Groundhog Day" to reverse it's meaning - only to find at the end what i set bad project option and my Adobe Premiere doesn't see MP3 coder 22:34:44 20min of movie - 2hours of work, seemingly wasted 22:35:58 who did see "Groundhog day" ? 22:37:49 --- quit: Herkamire (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:38:19 I have. 22:39:55 i re-cut it to reverse cumpleetly ;) 22:40:24 I don't understand what you mean. 22:40:58 --- quit: yeoh (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:41:11 the man finds out what his life cycles, having fun (drunk drive, bank car rob, free love, piano)... 22:42:12 then hi is bought at bachelor auction and finds out "game over", he runs out like mad and commits suicide in a car falling from cliff 22:42:34 THE END 22:42:54 18 min or about so - from 1:40 original 22:43:07 Such uplifting movies you make. :) 22:43:21 hehe 22:44:34 Man, this does it. I need a tool that generates timing diagrams for me. 22:44:35 and finally, clock w/ 5:59 emerges again from fire ;) 22:44:43 Doing this by hand is rediculously time consuming. 22:46:47 what movie u advice me to re-cut next ? 22:47:38 I don't watch many movies. I don't know. 23:13:12 OK, well, I think I'm done hacking on my little document for tonight. 23:13:52 If you can read and understand electronic component datasheets, then you might want to check it out, just to see what I've been up to these past couple of weeks. http://www.falvotech.com/datasheets/fts1002.pdf 23:14:13 And with that, I bid thee farewell -- I have school in the morning tomorrow. Yucky. 23:14:21 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 23:26:44 --- quit: Serg () 23:45:11 --- quit: slava ("Leaving") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.04.11