00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.04.07 00:01:09 kc5tja: i think cradles or specially cased chips are used for pre-make 00:01:32 cradles more likely 00:10:39 ? 00:11:09 If by cradles you mean sockets, then you can forget that idea. 00:11:11 thing to insert chip w/o solder, like FLASH chip on motherboards 00:11:32 A *single* socket is worth more than the cost of the Kestrel's entire printed circuit board AND over half the chips that'll go on it, combined. 00:11:59 None of the motherboards I've seen have sockets for flash. 00:12:06 They're all soldered right on the motherboard. 00:12:44 * Serg looks into open cas - TNX god, my is on socket 00:19:23 Not sure about Russia, but here in America, sockets for surface mount components are god-awful expensive. 00:19:30 For DIPs, they're fairly cheap. 00:19:40 And yes, the CPU in the Kestrel will be socketed. 00:26:10 --- quit: Herkamire ("sleeping... back in 10 hours") 01:02:41 OK, I'm heading off to bed. 01:02:51 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 01:10:05 --- quit: Serg () 01:23:57 --- quit: yeoh (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:02:34 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 04:12:37 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 04:13:34 http://www.wsu.edu/~jack is 404 04:16:10 incomplete link 04:16:35 http://www.wsu.edu/~jackdoll/jak/comp/images/comp4.jpg 04:16:55 --- topic: set to 'A channel dedicated to the Forth programming language, its implementation, its application, and its philosophy. :: UPDATE: Those interested in the up-coming ForthBox Kestrel home computer kit are invited to review the Kestrel's very own Wiki at http://www.falvotech.com/cgi/kestrel || SNEAK PREVIEW IMAGES OF THE FORTHBOX KESTREL!!! http://www.wsu.edu/~jackdoll/jak/comp/images/com' by qFox 04:16:57 grr 04:17:22 --- topic: set to 'A channel dedicated to the Forth programming language, its implementation, its application, and its philosophy. :UPDATE: Those interested in the up-coming ForthBox Kestrel home computer kit are invited to review the Kestrel's very own Wiki at http://www.falvotech.com/cgi/kestrel || SNEAK PREVIEW IMAGES OF THE FORTHBOX KESTREL! http://www.wsu.edu/~jackdoll/jak/comp/images/com4.jpg' by qFox 04:17:26 hah! 04:17:38 oh comp 04:17:39 damnit 04:17:43 --- topic: set to 'A channel dedicated to the Forth programming language, its implementation, its application, and its philosophy. :UPDATE: Those interested in the up-coming ForthBox Kestrel home computer kit are invited to review the Kestrel's very own Wiki at http://www.falvotech.com/cgi/kestrel || SNEAK PREVIEW IMAGES OF THE FORTHBOX KESTREL! http://www.wsu.edu/~jackdoll/jak/comp/images/comp4.jp' by qFox 04:17:58 --- topic: set to 'A channel dedicated to the Forth programming language, its implementation, its application, and its philosophy. :UPDATE: Those interested in the up-coming ForthBox Kestrel home computer kit are invited to review the Kestrel's very own Wiki at http://www.falvotech.com/cgi/kestrel | SNEAK PREVIEW IMAGES OF THE FORTHBOX KESTREL! http://www.wsu.edu/~jackdoll/jak/comp/images/comp4.jpg' by qFox 04:18:04 phoey 04:19:05 topic flood ;) 04:19:15 you asked for it :) 04:19:38 yea-a-ah ! 04:19:48 the thing is real beauty ;))) 04:21:24 Privet, Serg! 04:27:19 hi 04:27:29 * Serg goes away soon 04:33:14 --- quit: Serg () 04:51:58 --- quit: warpzero ("Tried to warn you about Chino and Daddy Gee, but I can't seem to get to you through the U.S. Mail.") 04:52:43 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 05:51:28 --- join: yeoh (~Yeoh@219.95.8.196) joined #forth 05:51:47 --- nick: SDO -> scratch-n-sniff 05:52:09 --- nick: scratch-n-sniff -> Scratch-N-Sniff 06:28:49 --- quit: yeoh () 07:49:20 --- join: hovil (~hovil@203.202.148.106) joined #forth 07:59:52 argh. 08:00:45 The Free Trade Agreement threatens to lock software patents and anti-circumvention measures into Australian law. 08:00:55 damn you and your powerful empire 08:01:00 * hovil shakes his fist at the sky 08:02:09 australian law? 08:02:17 what do they have to do with anything? 08:03:29 err, quite a lot, if you happen to live there 08:03:30 --- quit: madwork (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:03:38 then dont 08:03:39 ;) 08:04:07 --- join: madwork (~madgarden@derby.metrics.com) joined #forth 08:10:15 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:13:00 bah 09:33:43 http://members.home.nl/qfox/bootcode.in.forth.txt <-- this is my bootcode in forth so far... (number? and error are undefined atm) 09:35:43 * qFox away 10:00:02 --- join: fridge_ (~fridge@dsl-203-33-165-89.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 10:07:40 --- quit: fridge (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:15:03 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 10:27:23 --- join: Herkamire (stjohns@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 10:28:17 --- quit: The_Faulkenator ("I CAN FLY!!!!!!!!") 10:40:40 --- quit: Scratch-N-Sniff (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:24:34 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 11:24:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 11:29:59 --- join: kc5tja_ (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 11:30:31 --- quit: kc5tja (Nick collision from services.) 11:30:38 --- nick: kc5tja_ -> kc5tja 11:30:42 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 11:53:33 qfox: that would be great.. to just NOT live in any country that has a stupid, corrupt, rights-infringing, coercive government.. 11:53:43 qfox: oh wait.. that includes every country in the world 11:53:56 i guess i'm forced to live on a plank of wood in the middle of the oceans 11:54:13 but even then, some government might claim territorial ownership over that plank 11:54:31 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:54:49 hi tathi 11:54:49 how goes your forth 11:54:51 Hi 11:55:13 hey all 11:55:26 thin haven't been doing much forth lately 11:55:42 how 'bout you? 11:56:13 nope, coming back from a long hiatus to work on the website 11:56:48 hmm 11:59:16 i'm focusing more on developing a good community site, to encourage ppl to do more coding in forth 11:59:33 to provide the resources and tools for that.. 12:02:29 I see. 12:03:04 thin: what URL? 12:03:24 it's not launched yet 12:03:45 i have the cms up and theres a forum, but i gotta add content to jazz it up.. 12:04:27 btw i plan on asking chuck moore & jeff fox to contribute some posts on forth tricks & techniques to the forum ;) 12:05:07 i was also thinking of trying to initiate a groupbuy of forthchips.. 12:05:15 still haven't research it though 12:05:31 bah 12:05:37 * thin feels like stealing content from other ppl 12:05:38 heh 12:06:08 i want to rip out portions of ppl's articles to make my introduction to forth 12:07:38 thin: does anyone still make forth chips? 12:09:15 it would be a groupbuy for 25X or whatever is popular. since 25X hasn't been produced and debugged, the groupbuy would cover multiple production runs 12:10:17 i imagine even with the multiple runs the end buyer would get a good price per chip he actually gets (however many chips he orders).. 12:10:20 that would be quite a chunk of money. 12:10:34 if there's enough ppl and companies that really want forthchips then it would be possible.. 12:10:52 especially if the best of f21 was combined with the new 50X that i heard about? 12:10:57 Yah, and where are you finding these companies? 12:12:10 I'd think it would make more sense for someone who wants a forth chip to do something in programmable logic... 12:12:11 nah i won't, i'll advertise on CLF and make the forth site to provide information about the forthchip, and support the group buy 12:12:20 thin: good luck on getting $10,000,000 together 12:12:25 * kc5tja will eventually be offering MISC architecture processors myself. 12:12:32 However, I'm starting off small. 12:12:36 heh it would be more in the range of $300,000 12:12:41 To whit, http://www.falvotech.com/datasheets/fts1001.pdf 12:12:51 less than a million bucks anyways 12:13:04 thin: where'd you hear that? 12:13:17 discussing prices with jeff fox & chuck 12:13:22 by email 12:13:38 it all depends on how many chips per production run 12:13:39 for testing and debugging the 25x? 12:13:40 $10M seems excessive. Even Hifn spent nly $500K per fab run for its highest density chips (when I was working there at least), in the most exotic processes. 12:13:56 It's still very expensive though. 12:13:58 for the initial production runs for debugging, only 100 chips or so need to be made 12:14:07 it is about $10,000 for small production runs 12:14:15 so several of those 12:14:28 then the main production run which could be about a quarter million 12:14:29 oh, that's not so bad I guess 12:15:03 we'd only need 30,000 purchases at $10 bucks each ;) 12:15:22 Well, I just announced the FTS1001 UART design in the 6502.org forum. Let's see how well it's received. 12:15:22 altho that's not how the group buy would be set up 12:15:30 kc5tja: cool, i'm crossing my fingers :) 12:15:39 thin: Did you see the data sheet for it? 12:15:42 nope 12:15:48 It's still preliminary, which means, "Not Finished." 12:15:49 oh, i'll check the url 12:16:05 But I can't go forward with it until I have actual silicon, and I don't want to do that yet, due to my financial situation. 12:19:36 woo, you been writing 12:19:50 Yes. Now you know why it took so long to get even what I have done finished. 12:20:05 And it's far from complete. FAR from complete. 12:20:28 To be a complete data sheet, I need to cover electrical specifications, bus timings, and packaging options. 12:21:08 It is a LOT of work. 12:21:16 A lot more than I ever expected, that's for sure. :) 12:21:25 nice.. the end sentence is "all bits are reserved" 12:21:26 lol 12:21:44 like "all rights are reserved" for the article :P 12:24:12 It says "All other bits are reserved." 12:24:24 yeah 12:24:27 nevermind 12:24:34 Heh 12:24:37 just talking about how i misread it at first 12:24:50 btw i had an idea for a forth name 12:24:55 faqforth! ;) 12:25:16 all your questions answered ;) 12:26:57 heh 12:27:19 All programs in faqForth must be expressed as questions. 12:28:41 :D 12:28:49 and the "ok" must be replaced by answers ;) 12:29:10 ? someword blah blah blah ? 12:30:57 hmmm 12:31:04 according to one email from chuck moore 12:31:18 25 chips for $5,000 ($200 per chip) 12:31:29 20,000 chips for $60,000 ($3 per chip) 12:31:42 it really does seem feasible to get a groupbuy happening.. 12:32:11 basically maybe 4 of the $5,000 production runs for debugging ? 12:32:22 so the whole thing would be $80,000.. 12:34:14 Maybe. 12:34:32 Unfortunately, I'm totally broke. 12:34:43 I couldn't afford $3 for a chip, let alone $200. 12:34:56 And I'm sure there are other costs involved as well. 12:35:07 yeah probably 12:35:55 i wonder if there's a market for 20,000 forthchips at $7 each? 12:36:22 or even $10 13:00:21 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-MTL-ppp61068.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:09:00 thin: Are you thinking you could get some companies to buy a lot of forth chips at $10 so they could resell them later for $20? 13:09:30 or were you thinking companies would buy a slew of them to put into a product they would make? 13:09:37 the latter 13:14:20 Herkamire> http://members.home.nl/qfox/bootcode.in.forth.txt 13:17:25 qFox: cool. do you have code to compile that into p24 instructions? 13:17:33 or is it documentation :) 13:17:52 no i'm gonna restart from scratch following this example 13:18:05 there are a few bugs and i think its faster to restart then to find them 13:19:19 but thats basicly what my code does (should do) 13:19:21 and will do 13:29:16 another option would be to write a cross-compiler. 13:29:26 meaning something that would compile that file to p24 instructions 13:30:38 hmmmm 13:30:43 i think i'd rather do it manually 13:31:11 i figure that with machine language, these kind of instructions and words are called very often since they are the basis to teh whole forth system 13:31:21 so they ought to be as optimized as possible 13:31:52 (my ' word is fucking slow in my current code, and that dictionary has only 6 words...) 14:02:00 --- join: we59 (full@host81-153-32-22.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) joined #forth 14:02:49 nobey are you here 14:04:11 any wil im here any want 2 chat about life the univerce and every thing ... not programing though 14:04:33 but progrmaming is life the universe and every thing ?? :( 14:04:41 lol 14:04:56 well i guess it is 4 you guys 14:05:16 it a head f^&k 4 me 14:07:19 so iv been here a few tims lookin 4 i440r <<< is he still noy around?? 14:08:06 god i should not use a keyboard when it dark ?))_ 14:08:42 so apart from programin what do u guy do?? 14:09:02 * kc5tja works at In-n-Out burger, praying I'll have enough cash to pay rent. 14:09:10 im a machainial engeneer 14:09:51 i`m an indian 14:09:53 dam kc hard times 4 you mate 14:10:01 in the middle of the rain forrest 14:10:03 lol :PP 14:10:42 aldo you wach 2 much teley 14:10:58 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 14:11:02 bad joke 14:11:03 :P 14:11:38 the majority of the people of the world thinks that brasil is only a big forrest :P 14:11:47 and that we are a bunch of indians :P 14:12:12 Well, you DO have the most famous rain forest in the world. 14:12:14 Too bad it's shrinking. 14:12:25 not that much 14:12:29 no you just thinkin that the us controls the would :)) 14:12:39 the forrest is monitored by satellites 14:12:53 (this system started to work in 2001) 14:13:14 and lots of deforresters now get jailed 14:14:29 so, the rate of shrink is slowing 14:15:18 When it starts *growing* again, that's when I'll be happy. 14:15:23 Aldo we are a virus/cancer an the planet... till all of human kind is dead... we is goin self dissrukt just like any parasite 14:15:31 bah 14:15:36 resources are there to be exploited 14:15:50 all value is human created, there is no value without humanity to give it 14:15:54 wossname we dont need to destroy the forrest to get the resources 14:16:08 that's true, i never said you had to be stupid going about exploiting things 14:16:26 wossname: You're presuming that value is the highest desire of any man. It is NOT the highest of mine. 14:16:27 there are technics to explore the florest without transforming it in a desert 14:17:13 kc5tja: i mean value as in `values' 14:17:21 woss me thinks u r spout in religen there 14:17:27 if humanity self-destructed it wouldn't matter :)~ 14:17:34 hm 14:17:52 lol, the animals should start a revolution against humanity :P 14:18:05 and expel us from earth 14:18:08 That's a decidedly selfish mode of thinking; it infringes on the basic, natural rights of my children (whenever I get any). 14:18:29 we will use and abuse till its all gone :((( 14:18:32 selfish? there is no body else to share with 14:18:46 wossname: Umm...the children who have yet to be born? 14:18:48 i mean in terms of the entire species. of course if you're going to keep things down on a personal basis that might be true 14:18:48 Future generations? 14:18:57 Hello? Instinct for self preservation fo the species? Duhh? 14:18:58 but, as for `natural rights', i don't believe in those either 14:19:08 that's just human-constructed bullshit ;) 14:19:42 well, if the species is smart overall, then we'll continue, exploitation or not. but if we don't, it wouldn't matter to anybody worth speaking of 14:19:52 just look at easter island to see the bigger picture 14:20:04 Consider yourself /ignore'd. I won't listen to this diatribe. It's insulting, it's childish, its abusive, and I lack sufficient vocabulary to describe it and those who believe in it. 14:20:53 . 14:21:15 i wouldn't believe that you'd get so upset over such simple views 14:21:23 guys 14:21:25 for us 14:21:26 any way im here just to find an old friend sorry i got ya all goin there 4 a w3ec :)) 14:21:28 it's the internet 14:21:47 keeping the forrest is not only a question of ecology, its a question of strategy too 14:21:59 in 2050 the world will lack water 14:22:11 you mean drinkable water, surely? 14:22:15 yep 14:22:18 it would be quite a feat to remove all water in such a short time period :p 14:22:23 the forrest, as it is, is a big source of potable water 14:22:24 it a question of greed 14:22:33 you mean, water that wont kill you, as any water is by default drinkable, or else it cannot be classified as water... 14:22:46 the reason advertizin 14:22:53 can't you just call it `filthy water'? :p 14:22:55 qFox: I can drink hydrochloric acid too, but that doesn't mean it's water. 14:23:01 i wont more than<<<> 14:23:13 kc5tja> yes and thats related how? 14:23:16 you can drink sea-water, but i don't think you'll stay alive long on that 14:23:26 Your logic had a loophole in it: water is water because it's drinkable. :) 14:23:34 you can distill sea water using nothing more than the sun 14:23:39 water thats not drinkable is not water. 14:23:40 as an energy source 14:23:44 how's that loopwholed 14:23:48 loopholed. 14:23:51 hovil: probably not in much quantity, though? 14:23:53 Sure it is. 14:23:56 Water is H2O. 14:23:57 Period. 14:23:59 and ice is not valid. 14:24:00 ok ok 14:24:03 drinkable water 14:24:15 wossname: there's enough sun for everyone 14:24:16 neither is... the air form (dont know english term) 14:24:28 fog 14:24:30 or w/e 14:24:32 y are you goin of on a tanngent?? 14:24:33 and plenty of sea water 14:24:57 well useless dicussion 14:25:00 +S 14:25:01 naturally drinkable water will be much cheaper, energetically-wise, than dessalinizated water 14:25:28 imagine the amount of energy needed to generate water to 170 million persons... 14:25:50 not useless, qfox. kc5tja now no longer has to listen to my foolish diatribes :) 14:25:51 water to irrigate food to 170 million persons 14:26:06 and so on... 14:26:08 just genetically engineer plants to thrive in salt water 14:26:09 =P 14:26:10 we will use it till its gone and then?? 14:26:23 gone ? 14:26:55 aldo where do you cum from?? 14:27:02 brazil 14:27:06 Recife 14:27:17 north of brazil 14:28:21 so you have some resouses there right now,,, and when there cut all ther mohagey down ??? 14:28:38 ? 14:29:12 our goverment dont need to use amazon forrest resources now, there are plenty in other parts of the country... 14:29:23 you will get the pl from shell lookin for oil gas gold ect,, and when its all gone then what 14:29:26 wich are much cheaper to use 14:30:03 um its a useless discussion as far as i'm done and playing a game now. 14:30:06 we take our oil from the continental plantform... 14:30:10 sod it. 14:30:13 in the sea 14:30:24 well 14:30:28 world peace environment loving hippies can all be shot to the moon imo. 14:30:50 someday USA could try to liberate us from ourselves (in the name of ecology) 14:30:54 haha 14:31:14 any yanke here ? 14:31:30 but it a natual resouse i will not last... like ai said the human race is a cancer on the plant eath... sorry i dont av a answer 14:31:56 you say that like it is a bad thing 14:32:01 we59 the water resource that the forrest generates is renovable 14:33:06 and are starting to lack in the other parts of the country, so its top priority to build infrastructure to take water from the amazon to the industrial centers in the southh 14:33:08 how long do you think the forrest is goin to be there??? the us need chairs and tables 14:33:30 we59 we have some commandoes waiting the yankes in the forrest :P 14:34:44 anyway i dont want to chat about this any more please :))) i poped in ere lookin 4 some one now u have me in pylosaph of life thing goin on 14:34:56 you started it 14:35:05 sorry 14:35:15 :P 14:35:31 dont worry my english skills are very bad to talk about anything :P 14:35:46 so are mine :)))) 14:36:59 anyway good to maet you guy seem my mate not ere so ill be off tack care out there incyberland 14:37:27 ok 14:37:36 --- quit: we59 () 14:41:13 --- nick: AldoBR -> Bush_Democrazy 14:47:43 --- quit: hovil ("Leaving") 15:11:47 --- quit: wossname ("0") 15:16:42 Ok, I'm off to work. 15:17:02 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 15:19:00 --- join: Robert__ (~snofs@c-f55a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 15:20:31 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:39:49 --- quit: Robert__ (Remote closed the connection) 15:39:56 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-f55a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 16:04:07 whats the proper definition of XT, the word that contains the instructions or the address to this word? 16:14:03 qFox: how you implement an XT is up to you 16:14:14 no but i mean 16:14:17 when you talk about XT 16:14:22 i read it as execution token 16:14:30 right 16:14:32 but do ppl mean the adr, or the actual instructions? 16:14:40 XT is something on the stack 16:14:48 so its an adr.. 16:14:58 usually 16:15:20 oki 16:15:21 :) 16:15:33 it's generally just an address 16:15:48 sometimes a pointer to the dictionary entry 16:16:14 oki :) 16:18:56 qFox: the answer to your question is that there's no proper way. but the answer to your question is also, implement it the best way, the forth way, i.e. don't complexify, factor, etc 16:19:36 well 16:19:38 um 16:19:43 its not really about implementation 16:19:49 (XT is a forth word?) 16:19:51 XT puts the address to the dictionary entry on the stack afaik 16:19:55 uh 16:20:00 i kinda just meant the general meaning when ppl were talking about XT ;) 16:20:01 heh 16:20:07 ah 16:20:12 well theres a forth word called ' 16:20:20 aye, tick 16:20:27 that puts the XT on the stack 16:20:36 yea 16:20:49 yeah so the XT is the addy/pointer 16:21:09 i just wanna make sure that when i write put XT on teh stack, that when people read that, they are reading it as i meant it 16:21:18 and dont expect the actual word being put on the stack :) 16:22:14 heh 16:22:19 pff 16:22:23 your documents are your code ;) 16:22:38 in machine language? i dont think so 16:23:54 heh 16:24:06 how many primitives are you gonna code? 16:24:27 is there any chance you are gonna code forth after you finish your forth? 16:24:31 http://members.home.nl/qfox/bootcode.in.forth.txt 16:24:33 those 16:24:46 after that it'll be forth, i think.... i hope.. 16:25:43 qfox read the last entry http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExampleForthCode 16:25:50 kc5tja wrote it btw 16:26:58 hm yes but thats forth 16:27:09 oh hm 16:27:19 in my example, it misses the def's for : ; and CODE 16:27:27 once i can do CODE colon definitions 16:27:37 i _think_ i'm in the clear (although, not very sure about that) 16:28:02 but at least i can code instructions, and do everything in forth from there on, i think. 16:28:14 er i'm just pointing you to proper coding style.. 16:28:19 oh 16:28:20 not the example code 16:29:07 you mean that my code is unclear, "spaghetti"? 16:29:21 or... 16:29:52 are you aware of the 3 general rules of coding forth, a word should be no longer than 2 lines, a max of 2 parameters should be passed, and a max of 3 items on the stack should be handled 16:30:14 programming in forth consists more of factoring than actually coding :P 16:30:34 hm yes, but this is machine language, and i'm aiming for speed here, which i need at this basis, since the rest of the code is already slow as shit 16:31:05 --- join: Sonarman (1000@adsl-64-160-164-203.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 16:31:05 i kind of made the example in forth, so i could port it to the p24 instructions (doing that now...) 16:31:13 i'm refering to the coding style of bootcode.in.forth.txt 16:31:18 aye 16:31:31 so you are moving all that bootcode into machine lang? 16:31:32 but you are right, i "cant" code that way yet. 16:31:40 thats my intention... 16:31:42 you can try :P 16:31:52 i know, and i'm sure i will improve over time 16:31:57 its pretty hard 16:32:13 sometimes i've restarted a bunch of code from scratch 16:33:04 yes i noticed it's difficulty :) 16:34:27 personally i do without comments & stack comments 16:34:40 kinda forces me to try to write the word such that its understandable.. 16:34:59 it can be self-documenting to a large extent 16:35:04 i'm afraid, that after spending all this time forcing myself to actually add comments, its kind of hard to beat out of me again 16:35:11 i used to not document anything 16:35:16 or almost nothing anyways 16:36:04 and i dont mind comments. they are often more clear then the forth code imo. 16:36:12 i mean, if you dont like comments, dont read them, right? 16:37:18 well i think it can mess up the readability of forth :P 16:37:40 01:37:30 ** New email received from "Napoleon" 16:37:48 can they be more obvious :\ 16:37:58 ? 16:38:01 stupid spam 16:38:09 are you sure? 16:38:11 that be spam milord 16:38:22 uh wahts the subject 16:38:31 i just deleted it, "we have now access to 100 meds .... blaaablablablabalbala" 16:38:36 ah 16:39:04 that was, our online pha.rmacy even has harloss treat^mentsnnyvzrn 16:39:39 but my script dont displays topics. the email addys usually tell me enough. i dont use email as my main communication 16:39:50 so whatever comes there is more often spam then anything else 16:40:11 especially from stupid email addys like that :\ 16:40:15 uh that email address isn't that obviously spam.. 16:40:32 the subject would be the main thing to tell me that particular one was spam 16:41:06 spam email addys are really obvious when they look like aFERAazsfa@ 16:41:16 well, i'm sure you know from who you do and dont get email 16:41:32 this email didnt even come close to anyone who i would receive email from 16:41:40 yeah 16:41:48 i'd still check the subject just in case 16:41:50 and i very seldom get email from anyone on my website or something, since my email is not publicly on there 16:41:54 oh sure 16:42:00 when i get that i open eudora 16:42:12 eudora receives it and i usually press del straight away 16:42:30 (although i could read it in my script, but then i'd have to do with all those fucking annoying tags 16:42:47 those spammers will go to any length to mask their spam nowadays. its so pathetic 16:42:59 heh 16:43:04 fortunately i don't receive much spam 16:43:16 i was pretty clean the first two years 16:43:34 actually i did receive a lot of spam one time 16:43:36 but last year or so i appearantly have been added to some spamlist and its gotten worse ever since :\ 16:43:45 but i clicked on all the "do not send me anymore email" links in the emails 16:43:48 and it worked 16:43:52 @home (my isp) has no spamfilter.. :\ 16:44:00 heh 16:44:02 well 16:44:12