00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.03.27 00:00:19 hai. 00:01:09 The Net is the great thing. 00:01:37 It's possible to meet anyone on line. 00:24:31 --- join: yeoh (~yeoh@219.95.9.122) joined #forth 00:24:45 Dobroe utro, yeoh! 00:25:02 How's your eFFort? 00:25:04 hello, ASau. :-) 00:25:30 Great! I'm beginning to understand Forth better. 00:25:47 Have been reading a number of tutorials. 00:25:58 Also trying out several Forth systems. 00:26:05 Forth is very cool! :) 00:26:31 I want to learn more. There are many questions. 00:26:48 Hm. You may ask here. 00:26:54 Thanks. :) 00:27:05 That's not unusual. 00:27:51 BTW, have you tried any Forthes written in Java? 00:28:14 I've seen one at but haven't tried it. 00:28:19 I'm not interested in this, actually. 00:28:30 me too. :) 00:28:31 But I know folks interested. 00:28:40 I see. 00:29:09 I like bigForth. 00:29:25 I don't see any need to write Forth in Java or such. 00:29:27 It runs on win and linux and has GUI words too. 00:29:39 Wah! 00:29:51 Does it really run on Win? 00:30:08 I've missed this event. 00:30:09 Yes! 00:30:30 Minos and Theseus 00:38:38 When comparing several forth systems, I see that the number of words are different. Other than OS or GUI specific words, is there a list of most commonly used words? 00:38:38 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:39:32 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 00:42:24 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.196) joined #forth 00:43:41 Well 00:44:13 There're common words. 00:44:56 It would be better to say, there are several standards. 00:45:06 Either proposed or de-facto. 00:46:32 There are Fig-Forth (standard de facto), Forth-79, Forth-83, ANS Forth-94. 00:47:46 Also there're implementations modelled after C. M.'s experiments,. 00:48:07 Like cmForth, machineForth, ColorForth. 00:48:17 I see. 00:48:33 I found this http://www.taygeta.com/forth/dpans6.htm 00:48:49 Perhaps this is a good start for me to study. 00:49:18 It seems that in this case, the best source of information is the source and description of your particular system. 00:50:07 Though, not all of the systems have good enough, readable source. 00:50:30 okay, yes that is the problem I have now. :) 00:50:54 I don't know how good is studying Forth with ANS in hands. 00:51:35 Is ANS widely accepted? or other? 00:51:40 I'd recommend to look at Hendrix' pages. 00:52:07 Where are the pages? 00:52:18 I heard Marcel Hendrix published Leo Brodies "Starting Forth" adapted to ANS-94. 00:53:09 I see. 00:53:12 Search through http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Forth/ for exact address. 00:53:20 ok. 00:53:30 Ah. 00:53:51 There's another place where you can find a collection of various information. 00:53:56 http://forth.sf.net 00:54:28 And, of course, http://forthfreak.de/wiki/ 00:55:57 http://forth.sourceforge.net/standard/index.html is not found. :( 00:57:26 Hm. 00:57:41 It looks they've broken their pages. 00:57:57 Try to Google it. 00:58:00 Ah, I found it. The word and wordset links has the info I need. Yes, the other is broken. 00:59:35 http://forth.sourceforge.net/syntax/index.html is also broken. :( 00:59:52 I'll try the Wiki site. 01:07:20 From here http://forthfreak.de/wiki/index.cgi?ForthStandards it seems to me that the earliest standard is FigForth, then comes F83, and the latest is ANS 94. 01:08:05 Actually, there had been ancient '77 standard. 01:08:17 I see. :) 01:08:40 I'l focus on the ANS 94 standard. :) 01:09:14 You are able to find sources of implementations for FIG-Forth, '83 and '93/'94. 01:09:35 And, there had been '79 standard. 01:10:35 There are so many. What is the common base of words that they share? 01:11:39 http://www.forthfreak.net/dpans/dpansf.htm has a list. Would you consider these as the base? 01:17:44 I can't consider this as base at all. 01:18:05 Why? 01:18:09 You'd better find categorized list. 01:18:30 I see. 01:20:01 http://www.forthfreak.net/dpans/dpans.htm#toc has the categories of word set. Is this what you mean? 01:20:11 I can't get any list, not as reference, where I find W/O between VARIABLE and WHILE 01:21:44 What is W/O? 01:22:15 Well. If you find no book or another description, use standard and documentation. 01:22:23 I don't know. 01:22:37 Probably "write only". 01:23:54 The most probable, it is constant to represent "write only" mode in opening file. 01:24:32 ok, thanks. :) I'll try to code some simple forth programs. It is the only way to learn, that is by exploring the words set. 01:25:33 Also, I'll study the many example source . :) 01:25:44 BTW. 01:25:56 On source. 01:26:10 You can run into blocked files. 01:26:42 Originally, Forth was run independently of any OS. 01:27:37 I see so it uses its own "file" system? 01:27:48 And there was created the Forth way to organize source and documentation (comments). 01:28:00 It is not "file system". 01:28:08 Oh. 01:28:10 It is _raw_ blocks. 01:28:19 ok 01:28:47 1 screen or page or block is 16 lines 64 character per each line. 01:29:00 No separation characters etc. 01:29:44 To convert from blocks to regular line oriented files you can use: a) sed; b) dd. 01:30:09 I understand. :) 01:30:17 sed 's/.\{64\}/&\n/g' 01:30:18 dd conv=unblock cbs=64 01:30:47 c) a small forth program 01:31:17 Actually, any program you can write or get. 01:31:17 I see. :) 01:34:07 Are there repositories of Forth programs like what they have for Perl and others? 01:34:27 Actually, not. 01:34:57 You may find a lot of stuff at ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth/ 01:35:21 nothing remotely CPAN-like 01:35:59 Forth is not TeX. 01:36:07 Moore is not Knuth. 01:36:28 Forthers are individualists in main part. 01:36:37 Tautaulogy is not Interesting. 01:37:04 That's why Forth appeals to me very much. :-) 01:37:42 "There's nothing new in it. 01:38:00 Because there's nothing new in the World at all." 01:39:49 I'm thinking of using distributed version control system. 01:40:37 In order to share my sources and to provide ability of independent work. 01:42:48 What kind of work do you do ASau? 01:44:50 That's the main question. 01:45:24 Does anyone need any materials for Forth-based OS. 01:45:36 Or not? 01:46:53 Occam has spoilt my life. 01:47:01 I'm evaluating a vehicle GPS navigation project. Would a Forth-based OS be very useful for it? 01:49:35 I'm aiming at desktop things. 01:50:54 I want to solve linear and non-linear equations and to optimize functions. Everything is in conjuction with databases. 01:51:06 Hmm. 01:51:19 Not databases, but expert system. 01:51:39 Well. 01:52:14 That's expert system indeed. 01:52:16 Ha! 01:52:40 I've come across exact definition of my goal. 01:53:35 A Forth-based expert system OS? :) 01:54:58 It's expert system at first. 01:55:16 And it can be separate OS for productivity. 01:56:05 A Forth-based expert system, then? 02:23:27 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:24:34 --- join: crc (crc@1Cust45.tnt1.levittown.pa.da.uu.net) joined #forth 02:56:03 bye. :) 02:56:18 --- quit: yeoh ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 03:19:40 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 03:21:58 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:22:02 --- join: qF0x (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 03:26:56 --- nick: qF0x -> qFox 05:27:13 zzzz 05:36:51 oO/~~~ 06:35:52 --- join: networm (~networm@L0666P18.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 06:35:52 --- quit: networm_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:45:23 --- quit: crc (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 06:52:20 Hello 06:58:13 --- join: Xuz (azure@pcp01183968pcs.strl301.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:20:32 * arke is back (gone 07:56:33) 07:20:38 hi 07:29:56 --- quit: kuvos ("now, if i were a bunch of destroyed evil supervillains, where would i hide....") 07:30:12 --- join: kuvos (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 07:35:33 --- quit: kuvos (Client Quit) 07:35:39 --- join: kuvos (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 07:35:45 --- quit: kuvos (Client Quit) 07:40:44 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:43:07 --- join: kuvos (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 07:43:36 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 08:00:04 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 08:00:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 08:00:20 hi kc5tja 08:00:21 :) 08:00:26 Hey 08:00:29 my app is doing the weirdest thing... 08:01:22 What's that? 08:02:56 * kc5tja is considering various video architectures. 08:03:23 fullscreen crashed on me, and now its not compiling o.O 08:03:48 now it did... 08:04:15 Not sure if I want to use an Atari ST-style display or not. 08:04:49 The ST's screen layout was pretty simple, from a hardware point of view. 08:05:38 But it's not optimal for screen drawing, because bitplane data is interleaved in memory. This lets the video chip get away with only one DMA channel in hardware. 08:06:21 So in 16 color mode, bitplane 0 data appears every 4 bytes. In 4-color mode, it'd appear every 2 bytes, etc. 08:07:40 aaaaaaaarghsadrjuasdgtkislhsdkfglasb 08:07:42 do me a favor 08:07:50 tell me I'm not crazy, and this takes 2 arguments: 08:08:08 #define fassert(val, msg) \ 08:08:08 if(!val) {\ 08:08:08 cerr << \ 08:08:08 __FILE__":"__LINE__": Assertion failed in __FUNC__: " #msg "\n";\ 08:08:08 exit(1); \ 08:08:09 } 08:09:54 Yep, it takes two arguments. 08:10:11 I think you want to put quotes around __FUNC__ though. 08:11:51 d:\Visual Studio Projects\Frapiar 0.1\Frapiar 0.1.0a\main.cpp(19): error C2064: term does not evaluate to a function taking 1 arguments 08:11:58 aAKJQESBFLJASDFGLASFLJFHLJSDSLKHBFSKLKSABHDLKBSFHLK 08:12:07 fassert(Video::Init(), "Video subsystem initialization"); 08:15:47 arke: If you hand-expand the macro, do you get the same error? 08:16:48 ooooh 08:16:50 hold on 08:16:52 I think I got it 08:16:53 dug 08:18:06 ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack ack 08:18:09 ok 08:18:14 lemme try the hand thing 08:18:26 #define fassert(val, msg) \ 08:18:26 if(!val) { \ 08:18:26 cerr << \ 08:18:26 __FILE__":"__LINE__": Assertion failed: " msg "\n"; \ 08:18:27 exit(1); \ 08:18:31 } 08:18:35 fassert(Video::Init(), "Video subsystem initialization"); 08:19:53 if(!Video::Init()) { cerr << "main.cpp"":""19"": Assertion failed: " "Video subsystem initialization" "\n"; exit(1); }; 08:20:08 concateing the strings, i get 08:20:36 if(!Video::Init()) { cerr << "main.cpp:19: Assertion failed: Video subsystem initialization\n"; exit(1); }; 08:21:14 see 08:21:17 if I insert that 08:21:19 it works just fine 08:22:38 Insert it verbatim as the pre-processor would. 08:22:44 Including the back-slashes. 08:23:09 I want to know if the preprocessor is being foolish or the compiler is seeing some hidden dependency somewhere. 08:23:34 ok... 08:23:45 thats what I did 08:23:48 --- quit: Xuz ("Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz-POP!") 08:23:49 what I hand-generated earlier 08:23:54 is what I inserted 08:23:56 which worked just fine 08:24:00 You put it all on one line though. 08:24:07 Well, it guess it shouldn't matter. 08:24:12 yeah 08:24:22 #define fassert(val, msg) \ 08:24:22 do { \ 08:24:22 if(!val) { \ 08:24:22 cerr << \ 08:24:22 __FILE__":"__LINE__": Assertion failed: " msg "\n"; \ 08:24:22 exit(1); \ 08:24:25 } \ 08:24:26 while(0) 08:24:30 that works o.O 08:25:34 I think I know why. 08:25:49 There is no semicolon after the while(0), so the fassert(...); finishes the _statement_. 08:26:01 makes sense. 08:26:08 For some reason, its not asserting though 08:26:08 With the former definition, if(){...} <-- that's a complete block; thus no need for terminating semicolon. 08:26:13 that might just be my problem though 08:26:22 yeah :) 08:26:40 Though the C compiler is still in error, but I think that's why it's erroring out. 08:28:44 arke, did you say before that you're using Allegro? 08:33:50 I'm not. 08:34:12 :) 08:34:19 terve arka arke 08:34:26 terve mur 08:35:09 arke fassert can't be used as widely as regular 08:35:21 you can't put it to functions 08:35:26 might cause confusion 08:35:30 :) 08:35:49 stupid cpp compiler anyway :) 08:36:26 --- quit: Mark4 ("Leaving") 08:36:39 * kc5tja giggles -- "Much to the disappointment of Atari, the development platform for the Atari Lynx was the Amiga." 08:37:35 mur: I'm not sure what you're referring to, but my CUT unit test package depends on constructs like fassert(), and it's known to work perfectly well with both GCC and MSVC 6.0. 08:37:57 maybe I need to use CUT 08:38:05 maybe you need to show me how to use it and then I use it 08:38:09 in about 4 hours, is that OK? 08:38:12 :) 08:38:25 It looks like you're using asserts in a manner not intended by CUT. 08:38:42 So I'm not sure how at all I or it is going to help. 08:38:48 --- join: divgrad (~wer@195.222.69.19) joined #forth 08:38:53 basically, the fassert is for errors 08:38:53 :) 08:39:02 Checked at run-time of the game, right? 08:39:19 make sure condition is met, if it ain't, complain and exit 08:39:21 yes, runtime. 08:39:30 Right, thus, not at all how CUT is supposed to be used. :) 08:39:36 oh, heh :) 08:39:48 CUT is the C Unit Test tool. 08:39:55 It's designed for unit-testing. 08:40:12 wouldn't that imply both runtime and compiletime testing? :) 08:40:21 No. 08:40:36 Unit testing runs its tests *outside* of production code. 08:40:46 The tests are not an intrinsic part of the production code itself. 08:41:18 so, it creates "wrapper" code to test it? :0 08:41:19 :) 08:41:28 I recommend reading up on Test Driven Development, which I know I've recommended hundreds of times in the past, for more information on this. 08:41:42 wrapper? 08:41:51 There is no wrapper. 08:42:04 The test functions invoke the function-under-test with various inputs, and verifies outputs. 08:42:09 There is no wrapper. 08:42:30 ok :) 08:42:58 I need a good run-time error system 08:43:09 for some reason, the fassert construct is NOT catching the damn errors 08:44:34 and also 08:44:36 even worse 08:44:45 tried placing it somewhere else as well 08:44:48 and it errored out there 08:44:49 o.O 08:44:58 --- quit: Aldo (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:45:23 That implies the function is either not erroring out at all, or isn't being executed. 08:45:42 i _know_ its being executed 08:45:48 because the side-effects are being met 08:46:44 fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckifuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckifuckfuckfuckfuckf\ 08:46:52 its doing the 1-arg thing agian 08:46:54 i give up 08:46:58 assert it is 08:47:59 yay 08:48:02 works fine with assert 08:48:03 grrr 08:48:12 Look and see how assert() is defined. 08:48:17 ANSI defines assert() as a macro. 08:48:34 #define assert(exp) ((void)0) 08:48:52 _CRTIMP void __cdecl _assert(const char *, const char *, unsigned); 08:49:25 #define assert(exp) (void)( (exp) || (_assert(#exp, __FILE__, __LINE__), 0) ) 08:49:26 :) 08:50:28 oh well, whatever 08:50:34 kc5tja: you gonna be here in 3-4 hours? 08:51:22 (because I gottta work..) 08:54:37 * arke is away: flippin' burgers, thinking about cheese 09:06:08 --- quit: divgrad () 09:16:41 No. 09:16:46 Oh wait... 09:16:51 yes, I work at 5 tonight. 09:16:57 * kc5tja is used to working days on Saturdays still. 09:17:24 whats the standard behaviour of random? 09:17:32 RANDOM 09:17:42 Probably returns a random integer. 09:17:49 take one argument, and return a random number from 0 to n? 09:17:57 probably, I don't know. 09:17:57 integer number 09:18:06 I don't believe RANDOM is a standard word. 09:18:13 its not? 09:18:14 hm k 09:46:13 --- join: Herkamire (stjohns@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:55:53 Herkamire> http://members.home.nl/qfox/coding/forth/ set7.f and q.f , the game is basicly done, all it needs is a gui now :) 10:04:33 cool :) 10:04:53 gui... you mean so you can do color, shape, and shading? 10:05:11 gui, to show an actual table of cards 10:05:16 rather then the 123 10:05:48 and if i can manage that, i doubt using the mouse should give me much of a problem 10:07:30 cool. 10:07:40 does winforth have an API for doing graphics and mouse? 10:09:01 to be honest, i dont know. i know you can do windows programming from it 10:09:02 qFox: I like LIST-SETS 10:09:09 :) 10:09:30 --- join: wossname (wossname@Toronto-HSE-ppp3699356.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 10:42:39 --- quit: networm (Remote closed the connection) 10:48:28 Well, it looks like the Kestrel will also include primordial blitter support too. Non-DMA fed, the CPU will have to feed it. But it's still a lot faster than a pure software-only solution. 10:57:24 --- join: networm (~networm@L0649P29.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 11:40:00 WOW!! 11:40:09 hey folks 11:40:10 Apparently Icarus Verilog simulator can do SYNTHESIS now!! 11:40:23 Not necessarily to high-capacity devices, but it's still a great piece of news. 11:40:50 Maybe, with proper selection of tools and parts, I can do the Kestrel development entirely under Linux now. 11:43:11 --- quit: wossname ("wut") 11:55:09 Although, currently, I'm primarily only interested in simulation and learning experience. 12:03:50 --- join: matt__ (1000@adsl-67-113-235-169.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 12:03:54 --- nick: matt__ -> Sonarman 12:58:00 --- join: Mark4 (~Mark4@64.47.44.254) joined #forth 13:04:15 Hi :) 13:04:34 Primordial blitter. 13:04:36 Where are you now? 13:37:28 --- quit: Mark4 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:56:13 --- join: uglymonkey (~uglymonke@d113.as4.sfld.mi.voyager.net) joined #forth 14:08:13 Robert, where is who now? 14:11:23 Mark. 14:12:54 * arke is back (gone 05:18:13) 14:12:56 back late :) 14:12:58 kc5tja: hi :) 14:13:18 Hi there 14:13:24 hi Robert :) 14:13:32 --- quit: uglymonkey ("ChatZilla 0.9.52B [Mozilla rv:1.6/20040113]") 14:14:04 Howdy 14:14:14 :) 14:14:20 got to work 2 hours more than planned 14:14:43 making 0xf00d :) 14:14:55 I have to go to work in about 2 hours. 14:15:04 ack 14:15:20 --- join: uglymonkey (~uglymonke@d113.as4.sfld.mi.voyager.net) joined #forth 14:15:39 Dude, I was looking at some Verilog books, and they're all so damn expensive. :( 14:15:50 $118 is the average price for books on Verilog. 14:18:37 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@pc52dn1d.ppp.fcc.net) joined #forth 14:18:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 14:18:45 hiya all 14:18:50 terve :) 14:19:00 hei mur :) 14:19:37 mitä kuuluu? 14:19:48 terve mur, TheBlueWizard 14:19:58 hiya arke 14:20:14 :) 14:20:23 mur: waiting for my buddy to come in for a chat on another channel 14:21:25 noticed last friday that there are sign language interpreters with guides in helsinki modern art museum 14:21:37 even on free friday (free entrance 17-20) 14:24:14 * arke is away: shower + wanking 14:25:11 re TheBlueWizard 14:42:01 * arke is back (gone 00:17:49) 14:49:22 --- join: Mark4 (~Mark4@64.47.44.254) joined #forth 14:51:40 re Mark4 14:52:13 hi 14:52:17 tbw! 14:52:24 Hi 14:53:12 * kc5tja is reading up on the differences between open source hardware versus free hardware. 14:53:26 --- quit: SDO (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:54:19 :) 14:55:02 Where are you now, Mark4? 14:56:18 still in calif 14:56:23 hiya Mark4 :) 14:56:28 hiya kc5tja 14:58:01 Hm, Calif? 14:58:07 * Robert has no idea where that is 14:58:23 I'm just an ignorant European :) 14:59:23 Robert: california :) 15:00:31 Oh 15:01:01 :) 15:03:40 california :P 15:08:22 --- quit: networm (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:16:12 * arke is away: bit of halo ... be back in 30-60 minutes 15:19:10 --- join: networm (~networm@L0651P22.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 15:27:25 OK, I'm seriously thinking of taking a huge, huge business risk here. 15:27:43 * kc5tja is actively considering making the ForthBox Kestrel an Open Hardware computer kit design. 15:28:02 In the Cathedral & Bazaar sense of the term. 15:28:05 reasons, pro's, con's? 15:29:36 Largely because it seems like the right thing to do. 15:29:55 I mean, consider, being a kit and built primarily for Forth coders, it was going to be fully and openly disclosed *anyway*. 15:30:21 and the business risk would be a copycat? 15:31:00 That's a valid business risk anyway. 15:31:38 yes, but i mean how many sales do you expect? 15:31:49 Not enough to survive on. 15:31:59 would it be worth it to anyone to be a copycat.. 15:32:07 By that I mean, Kestrel sales is going to be pretty limited compared to other ventures I'd like to persue under the ForthBox name. 15:32:47 I don't think so. 15:33:00 Not until sales volumes increase substantially. 15:34:04 And in fact, if it's an open design, then it's entirely possible that there will be a reduced incentive for others to compete commercially with me. 15:34:36 If they offer/submit hardware design changes and I approve of them, then they'll almost certainly make it into later generations of the Kestrel design 15:35:29 Which means, basically, even if they were to enter into a business themselves, I'd just as easily copy *them* as they did from me. :D 15:38:40 are you talking about the equivalent of GPL for hardware? 15:42:29 TheBlueWizard: Yes, in particular the supporting chipset. 15:43:21 --- join: SDO (~SDO@68.170.20.253) joined #forth 15:43:24 I mean, it's all just an idea at the moment. 15:43:25 re SDO 15:43:34 since the ROM can be coipyrighted, so presumably you plan to do that...hmm? 15:43:34 SDO: Got some bad news, dude... 15:43:44 TheBlueWizard: How does one copyright Forth? :) 15:43:53 kc5tja, what bad news? 15:44:19 nopt Forth, the ROM (firmware) 15:44:33 TheBlueWizard: Forth is in the ROM. :) 15:44:45 I would not buy it unless the forth in rom was free software 15:44:57 SDO: I can't meet the pricing constraints with through-hole parts, which means I'm going to have to use more surface mount components. 15:45:04 And that measn there is now a lot less of them. 15:45:38 kc5tja, that is ok, good to hear you are working on the solution rather than focusing on the problems :) 15:45:47 there are always challenges, I can't wait to see the solution. 15:45:50 bbl 15:46:12 Oh sure, I have 30 minutes until I have to leave for work, and you end up disappearing on me. :D 15:53:40 is z" " a standard word ? 15:55:33 if so could someone explain it please. 15:55:45 i'm not sure what it wants or what its supposed to leave behind 15:56:01 the stack comment in winforth is ( -- ) 15:56:17 and i dont know what thats suppose to mean, as far as stack commenting goes 15:57:58 No it is not standard. 15:58:07 C" and S" are the only two standard string words. 15:58:12 the example code i got, uses z" " to get a filename/location. but i need to compose the filename in parts, so i need to do it alternatively. so i kinda need to know what z" does :\ 15:58:15 ok 15:58:40 Defines a C-style string (e.g., NUL-termianted) 15:58:44 terminated even 15:59:00 oh, ok 16:03:08 OK, I'm off to work!! 16:03:16 of to selep 16:04:26 bye kc5tja 16:04:50 ja yötää, mur! 16:04:50 http://www.mines.edu/students/b/bolmstea/randlang/index.html 16:05:10 Befunge is (thought to be) the world's first two-dimensional language. It has been accurately described as "a cross between Forth and Lemmings" 16:05:13