00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.03.06 00:20:54 hrm. 00:21:01 ambitious, but quite nice. 00:29:41 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 00:48:14 Dobryjj den'! 00:48:44 slava, I wouldn't say your print out is pretty. 00:49:33 You apply the same rules like C and other algoloids have. 00:50:00 That's not right. Forth differs. 01:06:25 --- quit: jdrake ("Oops. This machine just fell asleep") 02:24:50 --- quit: fridge ("Client exiting") 03:01:02 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@c-2c5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 03:14:38 Privet! 03:14:54 God dag! 03:19:25 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:12:15 --- join: networm (~networm@L0632P20.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 04:30:31 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:32:47 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.196) joined #forth 05:30:29 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 05:31:27 Dobryjj den'! 05:41:35 guten tag! 05:50:32 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:44:40 --- nick: Robert_ -> Robert 06:53:13 --- quit: networm (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:56:17 God dag! 06:56:34 hello 07:10:56 terve 07:11:42 --- join: networm (~networm@L0650P05.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 07:37:59 --- quit: Robert (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:59 --- quit: skylan (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:39:48 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-2c5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 07:39:48 --- join: skylan (~sjh@nwc57-207.nwconx.net) joined #forth 07:46:31 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 07:47:04 --- quit: ChanServ (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:50:53 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 07:50:53 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 08:04:19 --- join: MarkT (mark@63.121.115.110) joined #forth 08:04:57 --- quit: MarkT (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:05:24 --- join: MarkT (mark@63.121.115.110) joined #forth 08:07:23 Dobryjj vecher! 08:08:05 Does anyone here write or plan to write standalone version? 08:09:23 I'm hacking various A20 gate enable code and can't understand, how actually A20 is controlled. 08:09:45 There are three distinct ways. 08:09:58 And one of them is too variant. 08:10:54 Number and port sequence is not the same everywhere. 08:13:16 And delays are made in uncertain way. Sometimes there're no delays at all. 08:18:41 BTW, one tip how to precalculate constants. 08:18:59 : A1 ... ; : A2 ... ; : A3 ... ; 08:19:13 A3 FORGET A1 CONSTANT A 08:20:42 That's a conclusion of our "Redefinition" talk. 08:47:43 --- join: Herkamire (stjohns@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:48:26 Dobryjj vecher! 08:53:14 howdy 08:59:25 --- join: jdrake (~uniq1@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 09:01:07 Dobryjj vecher, jdrake! 09:01:22 Herkamire, I'm hacking low level stuff. 09:01:44 Floppy drive controller for now. 09:02:31 --- quit: MarkT ("Client Exiting") 09:20:41 ASau: yikes :) how's it coming? 09:21:38 Bad. 09:21:54 I have several sources. 09:22:00 "C" mainly. 09:22:03 --- join: crc (crc@1Cust178.tnt1.levittown.pa.da.uu.net) joined #forth 09:22:38 And all of them are of "3 pages for 1 function" kind. 09:22:58 Dobryjj vecher, crc! 09:24:25 Hello ASau 09:24:38 How is you Retro? 09:24:48 Pretty good. 09:25:05 Last time I checked you were going to discontinue Forth. 09:25:09 I'm currently attempting to get loops working :-) 09:25:25 What's a problem with loops? 09:25:41 They segfault right now. 09:25:48 Hmmm. 09:25:54 That's very strange. 09:26:05 I probably made a stupid mistake with the inline assembly somewhere 09:26:28 tcn took over the non-forth Retro 09:27:29 I'm also hacking OS stuff now. 09:27:42 Ahh, always fun 09:27:58 I still have not found why I can't enable A20. 09:28:45 Digging various sources gives strange result. 09:29:03 They're different. 09:29:29 I mean, they differs in AT A20 enabling sequence. 09:29:37 ...differ... 09:29:51 There are several ways to enable it 09:29:59 Yes. 09:30:13 I've found three groups: 09:30:26 PS/2, AT (1) and AT (2). 09:30:48 PS/2 way is hex 92 port. 09:30:52 I've always used the PS/2 method 09:31:14 AT (1) is hex 65 port. 09:31:45 AT (2) is 8042 ports, 64 and 60. 09:32:13 As you could see that method does not work for me. 09:32:26 You've tried all three? 09:32:38 I've tried two of them. 09:32:52 The third, AT (2) is complex. 09:33:12 And it varies from source to source. 09:33:26 I mean those I'm viewing. 09:33:51 It involves delays etc. 09:34:22 And there's no assession in delays usage. 09:34:54 Also numeric sequences vary. 09:36:09 Hence, I refactor all these sources in order to view what is common to them. 09:36:37 Maybe the result would be useful not only for me. 09:39:02 It would be useful to see what they have in common 09:40:42 ASau: have you tried the programs you're grabbing sources from on your computer? 09:41:41 Yes, they work. 09:42:34 But I can't see what branches do work. 09:46:17 Herkamire! 09:46:27 Herkamire: whats josh's email address? 09:50:03 ASAu: you could always use the BIOS int 0x15 intructions to enable A20 09:50:35 A20: 09:50:35 or ah,ah 09:50:35 mov ax,2401h 09:50:35 int 15h 09:50:35 ret 09:52:01 It's said to be a very reliable method 09:53:33 Hm. 09:53:39 Why "or ah,ah"? 09:54:00 oooh aaah, aaah! 09:54:01 :D 09:54:32 That's not really needed. 09:55:53 I had a slightly larger version which would enable/disable A20 based on the state of the AH register 09:56:38 Thanks, I'll test. 10:18:34 --- quit: crc () 10:45:52 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-MTL-ppp66434.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 10:58:27 --- join: MarkT (mark@63.121.115.110) joined #forth 11:03:06 Dobryjj vecher! 11:11:28 --- join: thin (~cduce@csnet044.cariboo.bc.ca) joined #forth 11:12:00 is i440r here? 11:12:23 hello 11:13:07 Privet, slava! 11:13:21 thin, I've not seen him. 11:14:15 k 11:14:18 --- quit: thin (Client Quit) 11:17:54 hey guys 11:18:06 i got an idea. 11:18:10 We all love DOS, right? :P 11:18:43 no 11:19:10 Of course, chris-xp! 11:19:56 So what do you suggest? 11:20:28 Forth instead of COMMAND? 11:20:47 It's done. 11:21:19 The only thing to do is to add scripting abilities to Forth. 11:22:31 --- join: cr3 (~marc@209.71.234.197) joined #forth 11:22:44 Good evening, cr3! 11:25:18 asau: hiya 11:26:07 Traditional question. 11:26:18 What do you use Forth for? 11:28:03 asau: I don't use it yet, but I intend to use it as a programmatic interface to my kernel. 11:28:36 That sounds interesting. 11:28:50 I think you're not alone here. 11:29:21 I'm sure, you're not alone with these intentions. 11:30:38 What language do you use for kernel programming? 11:30:53 asau: what's 2 plus 2? 11:31:41 --- quit: wossname ("bogsprak") 11:32:10 2 PLUS 2 PLUS? MSG # 0 11:32:23 That means "word not found". 11:32:52 What do you mean? 11:33:05 asau: thought you were a bot running the turing test on me ;) 11:34:37 asau: I use asm, c and xml in my kernel. the xml is to provide additional information over the limited ELF tables. 11:35:04 Last time I checked, no bot could run Turing test for human. ;) 11:35:38 asau: I wouldn't know, I don't irc much so I don't know how clever they can be. 11:36:09 cr3, that contradicts the main idea of Turing test. :) 11:49:37 ack, sorry 11:49:47 no, what I meant was something completely different. 11:50:03 You know how DOS consists of MSDOS.SYS, IO.SYS, and COMMAND.COM? 11:50:34 You can completely replace COMMAND.COM with a Bash-like thing possibly, and then have it run 32-bit. 11:51:15 DOS runs COMMAND.COM instantly too 11:51:33 so, you replace COMMAND.COM with something else 11:51:38 probably a Forth :P 11:52:25 chris-xp, I've done this many times. 11:52:44 I run instead COMMAND.COM these: 11:52:50 1) QBASIC.EXE 11:52:50 PYGMY.com :) 11:52:57 2) DEBUG.EXE 11:53:01 3) FORTH.COM 11:53:13 :) 11:53:13 erm, how would DEBUG work there? they're .EXE... 11:53:16 ooh 11:53:19 EXE2BIN :) 11:53:23 ^__^ 11:53:39 how does .COM differ from .EXE 11:53:43 chris-xp, there's no need to EXE2BIN :) 11:53:58 EXEC is regular DOS API. 11:53:58 slava: COM is a pure binary executable, which is offset at 0x0100 11:54:09 simpler? 11:54:16 Yes 11:54:16 slava: EXE is like a SUPER-simple ELF :P 11:54:34 EXE is relocatable exec. format. 11:54:42 yep 11:54:45 COM is not. 11:54:46 .COM is set at 0x100 11:54:48 :) 11:55:03 Yes, COM is relocated already. 11:55:35 That's why I produce Forth only for DOS. 11:55:41 ^__^ 11:55:54 hrm 11:56:11 I don't like OS that makes saving and reuse of memory dump complex. 11:56:38 ^__^ 11:57:34 Also, every moment I can work with no reference to DOS. 11:58:03 Every momend I can start work with no use of DOS. 11:58:04 yep 11:58:07 --- quit: networm ("Client exiting") 11:58:09 yep 11:58:12 ...moment... 11:58:23 which is also what makes Windows 9x/Me so vulnerable 11:58:24 lol 11:58:27 i prefer having multitasking :-) 11:58:36 Use Win9x. :) 11:58:37 you could just go and reroute the PIC interrupt :P 11:58:48 heh 11:58:50 you ever done that? 11:58:54 *nix for me :) 11:59:06 until i write factorOS (= never :-) 11:59:14 *nix does not allow this. 11:59:14 ASau: try it --- reroute the PIC under Win9x, and then its stuck in DOS forever :P 11:59:39 chris-xp, I won't be able to use keyboard in that case. 11:59:49 ASau: yes you will. 11:59:58 ASau: you just have to reroute some things. 12:00:19 ASau: you have to reconfigure the screen (empty VGA of all the trash) 12:00:20 One time I'll do this. 12:00:22 No doubt. 12:01:09 ASau: you also have to do something with the keyboard (although the easiest way is to do a BIOS reset :P) 12:01:13 :) 12:01:23 yeah, it definetely is fun 12:02:20 slava, if you start using DOS, you'll be able to debug your OS parts. 12:02:45 ASau, i have no interest in doing so. 12:02:56 ASau, i want a GUI with multitasking that stays running for months on end. 12:03:32 slava - it doesn't like I can help you with Kaffe support, sorry. 12:04:18 ayrnieu, it wont work on obsd? 12:06:40 slava - OpenBSD has a broken port and my attempts to compile it myself haven't worked out, well -- and even though I'd really like to work with Factor, I don't want to fight any more with getting a Java system on this machine. 12:07:07 slava - but thanks, anyway =) 12:07:50 ayrnieu, try freebsd :) 12:08:42 slava, that means reinstallation. Hardly it will work. 12:09:10 ayrnieu, does obsd use gcc 3.x yet? 12:09:43 slava - no thanks =) I switched this machine back and forth between Gentoo and OpenBSD probably 15 times, by now; I finally decided that I can live with the fewer programming systems of OpenBSD (no APL, no good CL, no Java), given that it otherwise suits me so well. 12:10:16 slava - 3.4 doesn't -- but I could compile a 3.x to get gcj, I suppose. 12:10:55 ayrnieu, you could and you should :-) 12:21:40 ayrnieu: hm, I'm reading about this gentoo and it sounds like this portage thing looks a lot like freebsd ports. are they? 12:22:15 i think its like the direct relation :P 12:22:20 one came from the other one 12:22:21 ^_^ 12:23:10 cr3, its like freebsd ports but real broken :) 12:23:23 chris-xp: does gentoo actually use the freebsd ports? I mean, freebsd has done a lot of work in that direction, it would really be cool of gentto could use those very same files. 12:23:45 i don't use either one, i'm just saying from what I know :) 12:23:50 i think they're different systems though 12:23:56 cr3 - very much like FreeBSD ports. portage differs mainly in its more intrusive nature -- it encompasses pretty much the entire system, destroys and rebuilds info 'dir's by its own leave, etc. 12:24:04 however, because ports basically consist of compilation options and such, I don't think that would work :( 12:25:03 ayrnieu: is the kernel code provided in this portage system? I believe the freebsd kernel was in my ports back when I used it, or perhaps I'm confused and both the ports and kernel were updated with cvsup 12:25:05 cr3 - I find portage quite a bit more approachable than OpenBSD's ports system. 12:25:14 cr3 - yes, the entire system. 12:25:39 ayrnieu: cool, so it is indeed very much inspired from freebsd. that's good. 12:25:53 ayrnieu: how is it more approachable? 12:25:54 cr3 - Gentoo has a sys-kernel tree, IIRC. sys-kernel/vanilla-sources, sys-kernel/gentoo-dev-sources. 12:28:07 cr3 - easier to hack the ebuilds; more system tools to handle the system (e.g., 'emerge -vp foo' will show you the dependencies of 'foo' with a list of applicable USE variables per dependency; gentoolkit has utilities like 'etcat' (which seems to have faded out, since the -v argument to emerge started doing something useful)). 12:28:07 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1081.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 12:30:07 cr3 - and portage has innumerable versions of its systems, including testing versions that it blocks by default -- whereas my OpenBSD ports tree rarely has more than one version, and handles multiple versions more awkwardly. 12:30:46 * ayrnieu hates talking about these sorts of things. 12:31:48 OS wars are overrated 12:32:27 ayrnieu: why do you hate this so? you've been quite objective so far, I'm learning something ;) 12:33:11 slava: ayrnieu is being quite cool about it, his description of obsd vs gentoo doesn't qualify as an OS war. does it? 12:33:35 FREEBSD r0x0rs !!$*#&%$#T*%# :-) 12:33:38 how's that for objective :) 12:34:09 cr3 - I don't communicate very well about my OS preferences =( and I really just want to say "go away and play with it for a while". 12:34:13 slava: that's better ;) 12:34:52 ayrnieu: well, thanks to your description, I don't have to spend so much time testing it myself and just know what to expect when the time comes to run gentoo. 12:36:50 cr3 - and if you pry a little you'll descover that I haven't tried very well in some areas -- e.g., I haven't read any documentation on the Ports system to understand better how to hack it; I've read the PF User Guide but not anything about linux ipmasq; I have *no idea* what about my networking settings under Gentoo prevented Erlang from seeing 'tenacity' as my hostname, etc. 12:37:58 hm, not very tenacious of me =) 12:38:17 slava, http://whiteunicorn.dax.ru/heap/roc_faq.html 12:45:16 --- join: crc (crc@1Cust29.tnt3.levittown.pa.da.uu.net) joined #forth 12:48:34 * MarkT is away: food 12:50:29 --- quit: crc () 13:01:59 * MarkT is back (gone 00:13:24) 13:04:16 --- join: Sonarman (1000@adsl-66-124-254-20.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 13:19:52 boris, you can navigate between virtual terminals easier than clicking 13:20:11 picking a key is faster than focus with a mouse 13:20:32 er.. damn. wrong window 13:27:05 --- join: [MarkT] (mark@63.121.115.110) joined #forth 13:27:21 --- quit: MarkT (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:27:41 --- nick: [MarkT] -> MarkT 13:35:00 --- quit: jdrake ("Oops. This machine just fell asleep") 13:37:31 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 14:07:34 --- join: I440r (~mark4@66.147.207.131) joined #forth 14:10:47 --- join: Foxster (poohka@user-v8lds2a.dialup.mindspring.com) joined #forth 14:13:22 --- quit: Foxster (Client Quit) 14:15:28 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:23:25 --- join: crc (crc@1Cust103.tnt1.levittown.pa.da.uu.net) joined #forth 14:35:17 --- quit: MarkT ("Client Exiting") 14:35:19 --- quit: crc () 14:38:05 --- join: I440r (~mark4@66.147.207.131) joined #forth 14:38:12 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 14:46:30 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@207.111.96.125) joined #forth 14:46:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 14:46:35 hiya all 14:52:35 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 14:52:50 --- join: I440r (~mark4@66.147.207.131) joined #forth 14:52:59 terve 14:53:10 :) 14:53:18 erm tbw did you see what i said or was i already disconnected ? 14:53:41 00:52 -!- I440r [~mark4@66.147.207.131] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:53:49 no output to channel at least 14:54:48 terve mur 14:55:18 I440r: no I did not see what you said...but I can go look at clog's log 14:55:45 but no text in clog's log, you said, mur? 14:59:10 i didn't see on channel anything 14:59:22 unless you were earler than 10 minutes ago, too 15:04:33 I440r: I don't see anything in clog's #forth log, so I guess your typeup must have fallen out of Etherspace :) 15:05:33 * ayrnieu discovers a wonderful new band: Machine Head. 15:12:08 --- join: networm (~networm@L0626P23.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 15:12:55 * madgarden discovers a wonderful new alternative to meat for body parts: Machine Head. 15:13:38 hmm 15:13:58 suitable for no-tarians 15:16:06 sigh, the desire to perceive flames and wars where none exist remains the primary constant of the newbie mentality. 15:18:22 Uncontrolled emotional monkey instincts kicking in. 15:32:18 hmm 15:32:25 i havne't seen many monkeys using irc 15:33:18 how many users have you actually "seen" on IRC? 15:33:45 --- quit: TheBlueWizard (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:33:54 I think that many physically-seperated groups of monkey writers use IRC to collaborate on their works. 15:33:56 in which way tou mean? 15:34:08 it is not rare to sit next to and chat in irc 15:34:11 not in finland at least 15:34:12 :P 15:34:24 mur, well you'd not know if they were a monkey or not unless you saw them. 15:34:56 are you saying you're a monkey! ;) 15:35:11 ok 15:35:12 gn 15:35:12 I could be! 8D :o :O :o 15:35:20 nn 15:41:41 in html4/css how do you get your page centered in the window? 15:41:54 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@207.111.96.125) joined #forth 15:41:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 15:42:14 tbw i said i was in california now :) 15:42:24 4 weeks i think 15:43:45 ah :) 15:43:57 cool...working for a company 15:44:27 Herkamire: the old trick of putting everything in a table should still work.. i used that in my last page which I did years ago, but it passes the w3c html4 and css tests :) 15:47:31 tables are way fucking better than frames 15:49:48 oooh, that f bomb strikes again! ;) 15:56:38 Hey :) 15:56:52 I bought some components on a ham radio market today 15:57:02 One bag containing a capacitor was unopened, with a note in it. 15:57:11 "Paid in September 1959" 15:57:38 whoa...ancient! 15:57:46 Yeah, heh. 15:58:59 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 15:59:12 --- join: I440r (~mark4@66.147.207.131) joined #forth 15:59:37 * TheBlueWizard gives Robert a cane as a token of old age ;) 16:00:26 Just because I buy things from old people doesn't mean I'm ancient myself! 16:00:52 I'm just joking, is all 16:01:05 Yeah, I got that ;) 16:02:16 Whoa, heat sink for small metallic-case transistors... 16:04:30 gotta go...bye all 16:04:41 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 16:25:35 works, but not

16:26:46 i have

here 16:26:54 oooo 16:30:31 networm: that works, and validates under html 4.01 transitional, but not strict. 16:31:56 hm, don't know then 16:34:53 --- quit: I440r (No route to host) 16:49:17 screen editors in Forth... how do they normally work? what happens once you've edited some source... do you load it and recompile, basically? 16:54:31 madgarden: I think so 16:55:33 Traditionally, screens are disk blocks? And you edit the source on the disk by loading and saving each block in the editor? 16:56:13 madgarden: I'm not sure there's much tradition, but that sounds about right 16:56:58 ANS says a block is equal to 1024 bytes, i think 16:58:04 Hmm, cool. I'm just trying to understand how these editors work, and what the old programming environments were like. 16:58:33 some forths use a big file to store the blocks in so they can work under an existing OS 16:59:32 i wonder why there's no file extension in ANS forht 16:59:40 something to open files and read/write 16:59:58 seems to make more sense to me than blocks nowadays 17:00:32 So after an editing session, a MARKER would be executed and all relevent blocks loaded in somehow? How would this be done? 17:01:52 networm: ANS forth has a file extention 17:03:09 madgarden: I don't know. 17:03:59 in my forth I figure I'll either reload the current block, or all of them 17:04:41 Herkamire, instally pygmy forth. that has a pretty good environment. 17:04:43 ah, yes, it has file access. probably i saw it and forgot again.. 17:04:53 and it's block based. it's still one of my favorite forths. 17:05:37 Herkamire, loading the current block would still require FORGETing all following code and re-interpreting, yes? 17:06:30 networm, i think blocks are superior to files. 17:08:46 i might be spoiled by "high level languages". just seeing a file as a virtual buffer of bytes i can access at random is what i prefer normally.. 17:09:40 but i guess.. blocks also replace the file system and directories 17:09:42 Well that's what blocks are. Just that your file has a number for a name, and is only 1K in size. 17:11:17 networm, well really a file is a stream. where is a block is more like memory. 17:11:58 but of course a seekable file is just like blocks. except you also need to know the filename and deal with various execeptions (like a short record) 17:18:32 does pygmy run in bochs? 17:20:25 madgarden: I don't think FORGETing is required. it would save memory though, and maybe help detect programming error. it's also more complex though. and you can't always do it anyway (you can only forget the block if it's the last one you compiled.) 17:24:02 Well you can forget the block, of course, but everything after it goes too. I'm also wondering how these block systems are normally loaded. Would there be a "boot" block that loads all the other required blocks for a particular application? 17:27:53 madgarden: donno. I have a word "load-bootstrap" which calls load on the nessesary blocks to recompile it's self. 17:32:53 OK, that's basically what I mean. 17:41:42 So... talk more Forth, dammit! 17:43:27 networm - anyway, "high level languages" includes Forth in that respect. 17:44:21 Forths tend to fail more at providing networking wordsets. 17:45:04 yes, that's why I put it in "".. but it seems to be not so much language dependent, more OS/filesystem view (= files) or, well, blocks 17:45:22 ayrnieu, why is that? Mostly due to Forth's memory management techniques? 17:45:36 mad - no, mostly due to Forths not providing networking wordsets. 17:45:45 mad - they hardly have an excuse. 17:46:08 networking also would be streams 17:47:41 networm: not all networking is streams 17:47:44 ayrnieu, I was just wondering if most Forthers are simply happy playing with Forth itself, rather than actually accomplishing much with it. :) 17:47:46 a lot is 17:48:06 I guess. I'm not sure that's a useful abstraction 17:48:38 mad - hm, I don't think so. 17:49:13 I intend on occomplishing a great deal with forth 17:50:17 my forth will definately do networking 17:56:12 there just doesn't seem to be a lot of programs using forth. just a lot of forth implementations :) 17:57:35 net 17:58:03 sigh. I don't see so many Forth implementations; I've certainly written more Forth programs than the number of them that I've seen. 17:58:38 anyway, ask clf about Forth usage. 17:59:59 oh.. it looks quite active 18:00:37 is this still called newsgroup today, or google-group? 18:01:22 comp.lang.forth is a real newsgroup, AFAIK. 18:02:02 Nobody ever calls them 'google-groups', for good reason. 18:02:06 Please learn about USENET. 18:03:45 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 18:03:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 18:04:18 Speak of the devil. 18:08:01 hi 18:09:28 wb kc5tja :) 18:14:46 --- quit: kc5tja (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 18:21:49 --- quit: networm ("Client exiting") 18:44:46 --- join: imaginator (~George@georgeps.dsl.xmission.com) joined #forth 18:46:44 Hi 18:47:17 hi imaginator 18:47:36 hi! 18:47:45 imaginator, how goes the : . forth? :) 18:48:23 I've gotten sidetracked. 18:48:37 Now part of my VM is written in assembly language. 18:48:58 At least the prototype that I will probably eventually merge into my Forth. 18:49:14 /mainwin 0 0 0 wintype_TextBuffer 1 glk_window_open def mainwin 0 eq { glk_exit } if mainwin glk_set_window "Hello, world!" glk_put_string glk_exit 18:49:30 What is glk? 18:49:55 slava: how is your language progressing? 18:50:01 http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glk/ 18:50:37 The actual programming language lies at http://www.ifarchive.org/indexes/if-archiveXprogrammingXglkXfloo.html 18:51:04 imaginator, its going well. i wrote a prettyprinter and i'm almost done with the compiler. 18:51:39 i need to get the compiler at a stage where it doesn't print 600 warnings on start 18:54:54 Why so many warnings? 18:57:41 Is the Java compiler as annoying as a C compiler about types? 18:58:53 at compile time or at design time? :> 18:59:08 imaginator, this is the factor compiler 19:00:42 factor? 19:00:49 yes 19:01:44 Does Java have an assembler? 19:01:58 Is factor the assembler? I'm confuzled. 19:02:23 factor is my lang 19:02:41 sorry, I forgot. 19:03:05 I don't play in Javaland much. I was hoping Mr. Rogers would do a show about it before he died. 19:03:22 :) 19:03:25 i'm trying to get factor running in kaffe (OSS vm) 19:03:49 oh, I've tried Kaffe. It didn't run some more recent apps. 19:04:36 I tried to use it to run Alice and Freenet. 19:04:56 It seems like there was another OSS VM or two. 19:05:12 it should run factor... 19:06:20 I tried to run freenet with kaffe too. no go 19:07:23 holy shit 19:07:23 factor boots 19:07:31 all regression tests pass 19:07:36 compiler doesn't work at all :) 19:07:43 Words: 434 19:07:43 Compiled: 0 19:12:36 how do you padd a file to a certain length with zeros under linux? 19:13:31 or trunkate 19:14:23 Herkamire: lseek(fd, offset, SEEK_SET); 19:14:26 ftruncate() 19:15:19 fseek is the portable way of doing it though, if it's of any relevance 19:15:19 can I do it from the command line? 19:15:52 Harkamire: dd if=infile of=outfile bs=$SIZE count=1 19:16:00 ahhh :) 19:19:43 cr3: that's not padding it. it's just copying the file 19:20:38 it will trunkate though. so I'm happy for now 19:22:19 Herkamire: try the block option to dd, see manpage 19:24:42 Herkamire: actually: conv=sync 19:24:48 see if that does what you want 19:25:26 Herkamire: one thing's for sure though, there's not much you can't do from the unix command line ;) 19:26:59 :) 19:28:12 each time I think of writing my own OS, I think of Unix and consider what I have to contend with... and writing yet another Unix is out of the question. 19:29:24 The most difficult part would be writing drivers. 19:30:03 A driver for the bus, the network card, video card, ... 19:30:31 I like the work Moore did with his hard disk driver that he created after analyzing a Linux driver. 19:30:44 imaginator: not to mention video card manufacturers aren't always helpful in providing details about their hardware. 19:30:50 But, I also think Moore didn't do caching. 19:31:14