00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.03.04 00:00:10 Smerdyakov: you're crazy 00:00:11 Smerdyakov, have you succeded? 00:00:19 * MarkT is back (gone 01:26:43) 00:00:23 ASau, no, but there is this discipline called "cognitive science" that does this on a regular basis. 00:00:28 Smerdyakov they could just be too stonned to code... 00:00:28 Smerdyakov, refer the bibliography. 00:00:33 lol 00:00:40 "cognitive science" 00:00:41 if human brains can be modeled as formal machines, then why are robots so *&$#^@ stupid? 00:00:55 beheavioral cognitive psicology 00:00:57 Smerdyakov, IUPAC comissions says your arguments is wrong in such a case. 00:00:57 Herkamire, because creating effective models is computationally intractable. 00:01:18 Smerdyakov this line of psicology isnt boolean logic... 00:01:18 Herkamire, where it's the human inventors doing the relevant computation, not the robots. 00:01:33 Smerdyakov: ok, so what makes you think we could create an effective model for your language test? 00:01:43 --- quit: OrngeTide (Client Quit) 00:01:48 Smerdyakov, your conclusion is based and assumption and hence does not show anything. 00:02:25 Smerdyakov: you're model of the brain cannot be proven, therefor any conclusions based on it could not be proven 00:02:30 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 00:02:31 AldoBR, boolean logic is not the only one. 00:02:41 right 00:03:02 but, try to model the human brain, justifing this with "cognitive science" is pure bullshit 00:03:04 Herkamire, we can prove it empirically, based on predictive ability of a hypothesis. 00:03:16 cognitive science is just another subjective line of psicology 00:03:18 Smerdyakov: what??? 00:03:23 AldoBR, he is wrong, but on another case. 00:03:36 Smerdyakov, have you proved? 00:03:39 * Herkamire looks up empirically 00:03:46 Herkamire, what we care about is programmer productivity. If a model allows predictions and recommendations that promote that, then we are content. 00:03:53 cognitive science is just another subjective line of psicology 00:04:10 AldoBR, it's an _effective_ line of psychology. 00:04:18 hiya. 00:04:22 Smerdyakov what you mean by effective ? 00:04:29 Smerdyakov, if it's subjective, you can't rely on it. 00:04:31 guy 00:04:35 AldoBR, allows predictions that aid people in accomplishing their goals. 00:04:45 ASau, what do you mean by "subjective"? 00:04:50 Smerdyakov no, there is no predictions in cognitive psicology... 00:04:52 Smerdyakov: there is no model that can predict this stuff well enough 00:04:56 AldoBR, wrong. 00:05:05 lol 00:05:05 guy 00:05:12 Smerdyakov, you can't rely on its predictive properties. 00:05:12 Herkamire, I think that is. Perhaps we will have to agree to disagree on this. 00:05:19 i´ll get my bachellors degree in psycology in 2 years 00:05:29 ASau, but the predictions are helpful, so I feel quite justified in relying on them. 00:05:42 they are SUBJECTIVE 00:05:48 let me say something to you 00:05:50 AldoBR, what do you mean by that? 00:05:52 EVERY science 00:05:59 have two components 00:06:06 philosophy and mathematics 00:06:23 mathematics to be a true science 00:06:38 and philosophy, to say where this science relates to human life 00:06:42 (as long as you do good math) lol 00:06:43 Smerdyakov, predictions can be of two kids, only: right and wrong. 00:07:00 ASau, yes, and it's the right predictions that I like, and that good theories provide. :) 00:07:11 Smerdyakov: you honestly think that there is a psycology model accurate/effective enough that it could predict how long it would take the average adult to create a complex piece of software given a specific programming environment/language? 00:07:21 Herkamire, absolutely. 00:07:24 how could you be objective in a science where the own philosophy is the mathematical term ? 00:07:40 Smerdyakov: grow up 00:07:41 sorry, the language barrier is too great for me... 00:07:43 * AldoBR away 00:07:47 Herkamire, or rather, determine when certain methodologies are deficient compared to others. 00:08:04 * Smerdyakov arches an eyebrow. 00:08:12 Smerdyakov: that makes more sense 00:08:16 Smerdyakov you are too embedded in capitalist ideology... 00:08:27 I've never been told to "grow up" before for taking a position in one of the central debates of science and philosophy. :P 00:08:28 AldoBR, it's great even for me. Hold on. 00:08:46 AldoBR, I doubt it. 00:08:52 thats the capitalist ideology 00:08:56 make workers machines 00:09:11 AldoBR, how does that mean that I am wrong? 00:09:14 without subjective lives 00:09:30 anyhow, as any ideology, this is just rethoric... 00:09:31 I'm talking about effectively _modeling_ key actions of workers with machines. 00:09:37 Smerdyakov: this is not a centlal debate of science and philosophy. this is about weather or not there are extremely accurate/effective psycological models. 00:09:43 This is different from saying that workers are machines. 00:09:56 Smerdyakov you are trying to define the human brain in a carthesian model... 00:10:03 Herkamire, and many scientists and philosophers think that the human mind is a simulatable machine. 00:10:04 I _am_ a capitalist and I dont see that making machines out of workers.. 00:10:17 Smerdyakov, I think the best P.L. is VB. 00:10:24 ASau, good show. 00:10:41 Smerdyakov: so? 00:10:45 Smerdyakov, you can find it easily if you count statistics. 00:10:58 Herkamire, if it's simulatable, then it's well defined to talk about the results of running particular simulations. 00:11:10 MarkT you trully are ? or you live under brainwashing ? 00:11:18 Smerdyakov, and your ML may be just a little better than Forth. 00:11:27 lol Smerdyakov, you make me laught 00:11:33 Smerdyakov, again due to its usage in education. 00:11:34 Smerdyakov: just because some people think it's simulatable, doesn't mean anybody has a working simulation 00:11:36 AldoBR, glad I could return the favor. 00:11:47 Herkamire, so? Who cares if anybody has a working simulation? 00:11:57 Smerdyakov youre right 00:11:58 Herkamire, I am talking about the WELL DEFINEDNESS of logical propositions. 00:12:06 * AldoBR deleting his forth compiler 00:12:20 Smerdyakov: you were saying we could use one to determine what languages is better than another. I'm saying that we can't because we don't have a model/simulator any where near good enough 00:12:30 AldoBR, "Do not do it!" (Universal Answer) 00:12:33 Smerdyakov: well, quit changing the topic 00:12:50 Herkamire, if we assume a model exists, then we can perform experiments to try to deduce limited properties of it. 00:12:57 AldoBR: it is true that I may be 'brainwashed' to a certain extent by my surrondings and the media etc.. from the place that I resice.. however we all are to a certain extent. 00:13:08 Smerdyakov: who gives a shit. we don't have the model 00:13:08 Smerdyakov, you're wrong. 00:13:12 s/resice/reside 00:13:19 MarkT and this brainwashing is called ideology 00:13:22 Herkamire, we can approximate it better and better with further experiments. 00:13:25 Smerdyakov, you can test if it works only. 00:13:29 Smerdyakov: you're engaging in pointless conjecture based on obviously false assumptions 00:13:52 Herkamire, I'm not in a fundamentally less valid position than anyone making any argument is. 00:13:59 Smerdyakov: yeah, and maybe in 2 billion years we could run the experiment you are interested in. but that doesn't make much difference to us because we'll be dead 00:14:13 lol 00:14:13 :P 00:14:20 The only experiments we need are seeing how people create software in specific instances. 00:14:29 Smerdyakov, either you can calculate any result. But it may have no ground. 00:14:30 Herkamire: what? you're going to be dead by then? 00:14:40 * MarkT ponders how long it's supposed to be before our sun burns out and consumes the planet... 00:15:02 Smerdyakov: really? that's not what you said an hour ago. an hour ago you wanted proof. you've been arguing with me for at least half an hour that one language can be proven to be better than another. 00:15:12 common guys, lets start a flamewar about Anti-usa 00:15:16 Herkamire, and the notion of proof is empirical. 00:15:32 Herkamire, any idea of proof is fixed arbitrarily, based on its perceived usefulness. 00:15:54 lol 00:15:59 Smerdyakov: forth has many success stories of people getting complex real-world projects out the door and working perfectly in almost unbeleavably short times 00:16:10 now he will dive in a poormans relativism... 00:16:23 Smerdyakov: I have no idea what that crap means 00:16:28 Herkamire, good. Lots of other languages have lots of success stories, too. 00:17:03 Smerdyakov following your logic, nothing in the world makes sense... 00:17:09 AldoBR, true. 00:17:17 haha 00:17:21 thats called sofism... 00:17:26 Smerdyakov: so, go look at how people created software in specific instances. 00:17:28 I hope the conversation ends about now 00:17:28 but 00:17:40 sophism 00:17:44 Smerdyakov: I recomend reading about the guys who programmed the UPS pads 00:17:48 don´t remmenber the word in english 00:17:54 but 00:17:57 Smerdyakov, you may refer to any language that successfully add 2 and 2. 00:18:10 Smerdyakov, Herkamire refers to real world applications. 00:18:22 Smerdyakov, even Common Lisp has ones. 00:18:29 Herkamire, what I hoped for was distillations based on conclusions you had drawn from experiments about what language features lead to benefits. 00:18:31 Smerdyakov, no place for ML for 20 years. 00:19:08 Smerdyakov: my conclutions are highly contextual, as are anyone elses 00:19:18 Then you give the context in describing them. 00:19:33 Smerdyakov what is a context ? 00:19:57 The context is the relevant details that, if changed to reasonable alternatives, would alter the conclusion significantly. 00:20:16 Smerdyakov what is a conclusion ? what is relevant ? 00:20:22 Or perhaps "could" is a better choice than "would." 00:20:28 AldoBR, ' CONTEXT . 1654 OK 00:20:29 AldoBR, we have a social convention for what those mean. 00:20:42 Smerdyakov what is a social convention ? 00:20:42 Smerdyakov: so you're looking for people to relate conclusions based on their subjective experience? 00:20:45 AldoBR, if we discover that our meanings diverge, then we can work to figure out how. 00:20:54 Herkamire, sure, since there is no other kind of experience. 00:20:55 no 00:21:09 Smerdyakov: great, so you utterly failed at that 00:21:21 i´m just trying to play with linguistics, like you do to justify your sophim... 00:21:30 Smerdyakov: you asked for proofs, and started arguments 00:21:30 (or sofism... or anything like this ;P) 00:21:56 Smerdyakov what is experience ? 00:22:03 AldoBR, I believe that you are dishonest if you believe in objectivity as distinct from subjectivity in any deep way. 00:22:19 Smerdyakov what is dishonest ? 00:22:27 Smerdyakov, you may believe in god. 00:22:38 AldoBR, you're not succeeding in much of anything but looking silly. 00:22:49 what is silly ;P 00:22:50 Smerdyakov, objectivity does not require to belive in it. 00:22:52 AldoBR, I _agree_ that all human thought is fundamentally absurd. 00:22:58 no 00:22:59 Smerdyakov: a more effective way to learn of peoples conclusions and experiences would have been to say "what do you like about forth?" and "what is it about forth that allows you to do/have that?" 00:22:59 AldoBR, you will not shame me into admitting otherwise. 00:23:14 i dont think the human thought is absurd 00:23:18 the problem is 00:23:28 if you look into reality with words 00:23:34 Herkamire, no. I'm interested in people who know that there are effective models of the human mind and have conducted experiments in that light. 00:23:37 and think that words changes the reality 00:23:51 then you are a sofister (or anything like this) 00:23:52 AldoBR, and this is where we disagree. 00:23:57 Smerdyakov, what do you mean under " all human thought is fundamentally absurd"? 00:24:02 Smerdyakov: models that are effective for what? 00:24:04 the "reality" is praxis 00:24:09 ASau, I can't define it, since any words I use are just absurd. 00:24:18 Herkamire, for predicting programmer productivity. 00:24:19 in the language level, everything is possible 00:24:26 Smerdyakov, it seems you're idealist. 00:24:44 Smerdyakov: try #ai or some such 00:24:45 Smerdyakov, so you can't define what's better reasonably. 00:24:56 Smerdyakov: this channel is a bit more practically minded 00:25:04 ASau you got right into the point ;) 00:25:04 Smerdyakov, your state is axiomatic. 00:25:32 Herkamire, I think the knowledge of the model and the performance of experiments are what any reasonable person should do, especially "practically minded" people. 00:25:46 ASau, correct. And such is all human thought. 00:25:51 Smerdyakov, that means you have "SML is the best" in mind and no practice can correct you. 00:26:15 Smerdyakov, even if you get "Forth is better" result. 00:26:18 Smerdyakov: sounds like you don't know much about programming 00:26:27 Smerdyakov the human thought is desire driven... 00:26:34 We'll set ground rules for specific situations, justified based on assumptions that the other sides understand the same rules. 00:26:44 With these rules set, we can start having "objective" arguments. 00:26:47 Herkamire, why? 00:26:51 lol 00:27:13 Smerdyakov: because you think that you could objectively compare languages 00:27:31 Herkamire, well, I'd say that you don't know much about programming if you think you _can't_ compare them. 00:28:36 you can't prove apples are better than oranges 00:28:40 Smerdyakov, how would you reasonably support your proposition of us being knowing less than you in programming? 00:28:57 Herkamire, I can. 00:29:00 ASau, I don't know what I'd do if I had that position, but I don't have it, so there's no need to bother about it. 00:29:49 Smerdyakov: I can compare them 00:29:50 I'm going away now. I'll talk to all my new friends here some more later. ;) 00:29:51 Smerdyakov, well. You see you know as much as we do (in prog. and softw. development.). 00:30:02 Smerdyakov: but I can't prove that one is "better". and neither can you 00:30:30 Smerdyakov, you can't prove ML is better than Forth. 00:30:36 Smerdyakov: you don't appear to have any friends here. 00:30:41 Smerdyakov, I proved Forth is better than ML. 00:30:52 Smerdyakov, so you should think it over. 00:31:39 OKAD vs. nothing is very strong argument. 00:32:41 Get feet to the ground. 00:32:57 I'm everybodies friend 00:33:28 hovil: oven silly people like me who stay up way to late arguing with trollers? 00:33:59 Herkamire, on apples vs. oranges. 00:34:29 I'm pretty sure that apples _objectively_ are better than oranges. 00:34:36 Proof follows. 00:34:50 I have never seen orange trees here. 00:34:53 better at what? 00:35:07 i have a proof that God DO exists... 00:35:15 But I know very well where I can find apple tree. 00:35:26 I ate apples from it. 00:35:51 I picked oranges a couple weeks ago. damn good :) 00:36:01 they must be better 00:36:27 Herkamire, yeah, even silly trollfeeders like you! 00:36:42 * Herkamire feels warm and fuzzy 00:36:45 And three campuses eat those apples every year. 00:36:57 I hope I learned something tonight. 00:37:07 i learned 00:37:11 every language has its zealot? 00:37:17 maybe I'll learn it when I feel bad in the morning from not sleeping enough 00:37:26 "only argue in your native language" 00:37:37 hovil, learn philosophy of science. 00:38:16 hovil i like forth, but like pascal too... i´m a zealot ? 00:39:14 I hate it when people won't be straight about their intentions 00:39:55 AldoBR, depends, do you go into other channels arguing the virtues of forth and pascal? 00:40:03 no 00:40:24 only if i get alone for more than 6 months... 00:40:48 in the middle of a jungle 00:40:49 I should study. 00:40:53 Smerdyakov: kept changing what he said he was talking for 00:41:43 someone here knows a EASY way to connect a small microcontroller to a 10Mbit ethernet ? 00:42:03 a IC or something like this... 00:42:17 when I go into #perl I don't say "I don't see how perl is any good compaired to forth" I ask them to teach me something about perl 00:43:30 well, everyone here knowns that forh is better than perl ;P 00:44:25 why bother 00:45:04 well, better go to bed... cu 00:46:53 --- nick: AldoBR -> AldoBR[zzzzz] 01:01:29 --- join: [MarkT] (mark@tom.nss.udel.edu) joined #forth 01:01:43 not really 01:01:58 for sysad stuff at work, I use python 01:02:00 --- quit: MarkT (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:02:14 to easily munge text and make network connections 01:02:35 I'd rather just use python or something like that than write my own forth with its own tcp ip stack etc =P 01:06:06 hovil, there're Marcel Hendrix' sockets, Andrejj Cherezov's servers, Bernd Paysan's server. 01:06:43 If you use Gforth, there's no need to write from scratch. 01:06:53 --- quit: Herkamire ("goodnight all") 02:37:09 --- quit: ASau () 02:43:53 --- nick: [MarkT] -> MarkT 02:56:47 --- quit: hovil ("Leaving") 03:35:43 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.196) joined #forth 03:37:08 --- join: hovil (~hovil@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 03:39:59 Dobryjj den'! 04:13:46 salut 04:15:29 bonan matenon 04:24:17 --- join: MrReach (~spam@209.181.43.190) joined #forth 04:28:06 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 04:28:41 Privet, MrReach, qFox! 04:28:54 hihi! 04:29:28 wasaaaaaap!! 04:29:29 Does anyone know any doc for WinNT asm? 04:29:40 nop 04:30:03 Console and TCP are interested. 04:30:22 heh 04:30:24 ...interest. 04:30:42 exactly the same as for C/C++ and VisualBasic 04:31:00 everything in windows is done via library calls 04:34:37 --- quit: MarkT ("Leaving") 04:34:47 the library calls are performed the same way from ASM as they are from C 04:35:16 the docs are freely downloadable from M$ ... look for "Core SDK" 04:35:19 I never programmed WinNT before. 04:35:35 Ah. Thanks. 04:36:21 last I downloaded it, about a year ago, it was 15 megs compressed 04:36:30 so you'll need some HD space 04:36:34 Wah! 04:36:57 50 MB of reading??? 04:37:09 hf 04:37:10 :p 04:37:16 in M$ help format 04:37:30 oh so thats just about 5 pages then 04:37:52 i.e. compressed HTML/XML 04:38:02 alright, 6 04:38:03 haha! 04:38:03 :p 04:41:43 --- quit: hovil ("Leaving") 04:53:10 --- quit: MrReach () 05:16:01 --- quit: warpzero (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 05:16:10 --- join: serg (~serg@c-775a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 05:17:16 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 05:21:22 --- quit: serg ("leaving") 05:22:02 Dobryjj vecher! 05:22:21 Too many Sergs. 05:22:31 Wah! 05:24:39 oh man 05:24:43 im soooo pissed off 05:24:57 my alarm clock was supposed to wake me up at 3 05:25:01 it didnt even ring! 05:25:41 Dobryjj vecher! 05:27:27 dobroe utro :) 05:42:11 * warpzero is away: Cowboy cornflake. 05:57:49 --- join: serg (~serg@c-775a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 06:05:03 --- quit: serg ("leaving") 06:05:08 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 06:14:41 --- join: MrReach (~spam@209.181.43.190) joined #forth 06:19:46 uhoh 06:19:55 ?? 06:21:04 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:31:35 --- quit: warpzero (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 06:34:44 --- quit: MrReach () 06:41:52 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 06:56:03 --- join: jdrake (~uniq1@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 07:00:47 --- join: Herkamire (stjohns@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 07:10:21 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.196) joined #forth 07:31:16 --- quit: jdrake ("Oops. This machine just fell asleep") 07:55:37 --- quit: Serg () 09:24:12 Dobryjj vecher! 09:29:33 --- part: Smerdyakov left #forth 09:36:00 private 09:36:04 privet i mean 09:41:04 How is the weather there? 09:42:43 I'm waiting for sunny day, but' seems clouds don't want to fly away. 09:43:18 Ha! 09:43:26 "I'm waiting for sunny day, but' seems clouds don't want t'fly away." 09:43:34 Rap. :) 10:02:32 dark here 10:02:49 was sunny 10:02:57 i went with metro down town and walked an hour there 10:03:01 just for enjoying the sun 10:29:22 hello 10:30:01 here in brazil, 38 celsius, clear sky, sun and the beach 100m in front of my building ;) 10:31:19 anybody knows a IC for easy interfacing a microcontroller to a 10Bit Ethernet? 10:32:39 --- nick: AldoBR[zzzzz] -> AldoBR 10:33:30 AldoBR, I've guessed you're in Brazil. 10:33:46 I see no connection of your weather and my weather. 10:34:07 I know dependepcies on mur's weather. 10:34:17 hey guy 10:34:23 take it easy... 10:34:40 I understand. :) 10:36:50 How would you like another flame war? 10:37:07 :P 10:38:39 well 10:38:47 i think pascal is better than forth... 10:39:13 And I don't think so. 10:39:48 comon, lets flamewar :P 10:39:48 It's easy to see we have all possibilities to start. 10:40:55 ... 10:41:12 err.. anybody know of SDL bindings for Forth ? 10:41:45 I've heard of OpenGL. 10:42:37 opengl is overkill for my intentions 10:46:13 I can't recall where I've seen OpenGL. 10:46:33 It seems I never heard of SDL. 10:47:12 You should take a look at Windows Forthes, SP-Forth and WinForth. 11:01:04 AldoBR, take a look: http://www.immersive.com/ 11:33:51 --- join: jdrake (~uniq1@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 11:35:33 Dobryjj vecher, jdrake! 11:37:20 ASau, what exactly does that mean 11:39:41 --- quit: AldoBR (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:40:00 "Dobryjj" means "good" or "kind", "vecher" means "evening". 11:40:52 then I must say merci 11:45:16 man, documenting is a lot of work 11:48:08 --- join: MarkT (mark@63.121.114.184) joined #forth 11:54:00 Dobryjj vecher, MarkT! 11:54:09 How is your Forth today? 11:54:11 hi :) 11:54:51 The Forth is everywhere. 11:54:59 trying to figure out how to get a stand-alone image in gforth.. when you're a newbie like me, you could use more examples than comes with the docs.. 11:55:04 Privet, Robert! 11:55:33 MarkT, it's too hard to make Gforth change. 11:55:55 I'd suggest you look at ciforth. 11:56:13 you answered my question before I could ask! 11:56:34 It comes in asm source for Linux, Windows, DOS and standalone. 11:56:57 MarkT, I'm working wizard. :) 11:57:06 cool, I'm looking at it now :) 11:57:16 Transferring thoughts over long distances. 11:57:52 Privet, ASau :) 12:00:25 getting it as we speak.. 12:00:42 i may eventually get one that I like.. lol 12:01:07 MarkT, take care. Ciforth may differ from ANS. 12:01:18 Once it was FIG-Forth. 12:01:21 ok 12:01:47 There should be documentation attached. 12:01:52 IIRC. 12:02:13 there is, at least that is what the website said. 12:02:30 I don't really remember which Horsts' Forthes use particularly ANS. 12:27:43 --- quit: MarkT ("Client Exiting") 12:47:26 Hmm. Interesting reading. 12:48:27 Jeff Fox talks on ANS another way: http://www.ultratechnology.com/fd1103.htm 12:48:30 --- join: Moreno_Aldo_Boni (Aldo@200.141.173.71) joined #forth 12:48:52 --- nick: Moreno_Aldo_Boni -> AldoBR 12:50:14 are there any utils that can take windows bitmap 'fon' files and convert them into something I can use with allegro as a bitmap font? 12:52:37 I don't think there exist any. 12:53:43 Maybe only underground work could exist. MS patents everything it can. 12:53:56 --- quit: cmeme (Connection reset by peer) 12:54:08 ASau, it is a bitmap font, it would be like patenting use of water 12:54:30 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com) joined #forth 12:55:38 Good evening, cmeme! 12:56:00 --- quit: madgarden (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:56:22 jdrake, I suspect MS is able to patent even H_2O formula. 12:56:46 The USA is "ueber alles." 12:56:57 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576712.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 12:57:04 gn 12:57:10 ASau, if that means utterly stupid i would agree 12:57:39 They can claim it's intellectual property and apply their EULA or whatever. 12:58:23 how anyone can actually own an idea is beyond me 12:58:48 jdrake, that's the main anti-patent and anti-IP statement. 12:59:03 the catholic church would likely be able to patent god in the US 12:59:25 Anyway, you can go to http://www.wotsit.org/ and search through lists. 12:59:51 somebody gave me a link to a fon2bdf converter source 13:00:02 but i don't know what I would do after i had the bdf 13:00:24 i will see if ttf2pcx might be lucky to open up an 'fon' file 13:00:25 I don't know, I'd look at Wotsit. 13:01:38 i love wotsit 13:01:50 If there's a description, then you maybe can google something. 13:02:53 the fnt (fon?) spec is aparantly 5k or so, bdf is 55k 13:03:17 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1177.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 13:03:18 if I can load it up somewhere, i can take a screenshot :-) 13:03:25 well, time for shower, bbl 13:09:36 --- quit: madgarden (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:11:24 lol 13:11:30 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576712.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:11:33 i will patent GOD before they :P 13:12:52 AldoBR, you don't have anough money. 13:13:12 seriously now 13:13:20 i´m very afraid about Software patents 13:13:34 in USA, the people are too manipulated by the media 13:13:42 I think its ridiculous 13:13:45 if the media says : its good, then they stay silent... 13:14:00 if USA impose this to us (brazil) 13:14:19 surely the monkeys at our political leadership will accept... 13:14:37 Man... 13:14:39 IBM is so cooll 13:14:47 Yeah 13:14:51 I wanna work for IBM someday 13:15:19 the only place where i have some hope of software-patent ban is europe... 13:15:31 europe is cool. 13:15:34 Yeah 13:15:40 I wanna work in Europe someday 13:15:42 Russia is cooler. :) 13:15:58 ASau: Russia is part Europe, thats why :) 13:16:09 We're of no concern what MS wants for its Windows. 13:16:25 microsoft will dominate the world ;P 13:16:36 chris-xp, you're wrong. Russia is not a part of Europe. 13:16:45 they will implant chips at our brains 13:16:58 ASau: _part_ of Russia is considered to belong to Europe 13:17:02