00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.02.25 00:25:17 --- part: Kurt left #forth 01:24:49 --- quit: ASau () 05:01:37 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 05:01:57 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.196) joined #forth 05:02:08 Dobryjj den'! 05:09:50 --- quit: hovil ("Leaving") 05:44:00 dobryjj vecher 05:50:43 --- join: qF0x (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 05:52:01 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:55:37 --- nick: qF0x -> qFox 06:46:02 * warpzero is away: Just a Visa or MasterCard is all you need. 07:37:10 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 07:37:20 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 08:32:55 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 09:55:59 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1081.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 10:34:40 --- quit: slava (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:34:48 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 11:03:16 hi 11:12:05 Dobryjj vecher! 11:40:28 --- quit: proteus-sleeps ("Leaving") 11:57:25 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 12:00:42 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@216.27.161.121) joined #forth 12:01:33 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:01:55 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@216.27.161.121) joined #forth 12:06:35 --- quit: proteusguy (Client Quit) 13:13:25 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp82026.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:45:57 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving") 13:46:31 --- join: Herkamire (~stjohns@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 14:10:32 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@dunwlessnat.rice.edu) joined #forth 14:52:19 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 14:59:44 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 14:59:49 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 15:07:20 --- join: ree (~root@adsl-68-251-179-58.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net) joined #forth 15:26:40 --- join: blockhead (default@dialin-852-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 15:34:59 hi blockhead 15:35:03 blockhead, how goes the asm-forth? 15:35:17 slowly 15:35:24 I'm starting work on the outer interpreter 15:36:49 hoe goes factor? 15:36:55 how, not hoe :D 15:37:23 i've just been working on the game -- factor's good enough so far (until i start adding more stuff to the game :) 15:37:30 my goal right now is to finish the compiler 15:37:54 so the game itself is written in factor? 15:39:17 some parts 15:39:27 all the graphics code is in java 15:43:28 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@dunwlessnat.rice.edu) joined #forth 15:44:03 slava, is your game playable yet? 15:44:57 of course 15:45:46 cool 15:46:17 :) 15:46:22 --- quit: Nutssh (Client Quit) 15:57:40 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 16:01:44 --- quit: ree ("brb") 16:09:53 --- quit: wossname ("^_~") 16:16:52 --- quit: qFox ("if at first you dont succeed, quit again") 16:42:28 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-169-92-95.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 16:43:03 w/ 2 16:43:27 Sonarman: dammit 16:43:30 Sonarman: xchat.org 16:43:39 Sonarman: or get a decent terminal 16:43:44 Sonarman: #linux peoples will help you 16:45:17 hi Sonarman 16:45:17 Hi 16:45:17 Hi matt. 16:45:17 Hi Robert 16:45:17 Hi slava 16:45:45 it's just that i use xterm out of habit 16:46:00 Sonarman: ... 16:46:01 What's wrong with xterm? 16:46:05 Sonarman: alias xterm rxvt 16:47:00 alias xterm='rxvt -fn fixed' :) 16:48:05 Robert: it's just that i can't/haven't figured out how to use the irssi OPT-n window-switching shortcut in xterm 16:48:11 ALT-n 16:48:33 ... 16:48:42 alt+1-0 = windows 1-10 16:48:49 q to p = 11 to 20 16:48:53 etc. etc. etc. 16:49:31 I can't use ALT in xterm, but that's OK. 16:49:46 Esc - other key works just as fine. 16:50:14 OH! 16:50:20 ... 16:50:23 if you can't do alt 16:50:25 don't use xterm 16:50:51 haha fuck you chris now thanks to Robert (hallowed be his name) here i can continue using obsolete old xterm 16:50:55 Konsole does alt just fine, as does rxvt, gnome-terminal, ... 16:51:01 grr! 16:51:13 Haha. 16:51:40 Esc-a is hard-coded in my brain. 16:52:02 $00000000 $FFFFFFFF do I @ Robert = if 0 I ! then loop 16:52:17 before that was: 16:52:45 ' ! alias (!) 16:52:47 : ! dup @ Robert = if 2drop exit then (!) ; 16:53:00 so you cannot kill him 16:54:46 and before that was 16:55:50 Sonarman IS cool 16:56:04 or cool TO Sonarman 16:56:24 one of those is probably backwards 16:57:21 naaah 16:57:22 not even close 16:57:41 ' alias alias (alias) 16:58:03 oh, shit 16:58:21 ' (alias) alias alias 16:58:35 s" arke" sigkill kill 16:59:02 sorry, got a signal handler :) 16:59:23 sorry, can't handle sigkill beotch 16:59:34 well, I'm a virus 17:00:25 ' alias alias (alias) : alias dup ' ! = -if (alias) then ; 17:00:29 so did you inject some code into the kernel which compromises the powah of sigkill? 17:00:37 indeeed., 17:00:43 I'm ring0 baby 17:00:56 hardc0re 17:01:05 m00 17:01:24 You're sick. 17:02:15 are we? 17:02:22 You are. 17:02:23 you can't alias !, you can't alias !! 17:03:00 also 17:03:02 watch this 17:03:13 forget (alias) 17:03:17 boom! 17:03:20 you screwed! 17:03:27 i did? 17:03:43 i must have been REALLY wasted 17:03:45 : rk dup recurse ; 17:04:09 1 rk Stack raped ok 17:04:11 are there any forth gui toolkits? 17:04:19 slava: MINOS 17:04:33 part of bigFORTH 17:04:34 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1177.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 17:06:32 bigforth is not in bsd ports :( 17:07:23 DOWNLOAD IT 17:07:24 it might work under linux emulation, i don't know 17:07:25 COMPILE IT 17:07:26 RAPE IT 17:10:29 * slava ponders 17:10:31 case sensitive 17:10:31 chris-xp: have you listened to Graveworm - Unhallowed... and Detached - Manowar yet? 17:10:34 or case insensitive words? 17:10:42 Sonarman: no, not yet... 17:10:47 Sonarman: need to scp them 17:10:50 i think it can be both (just off the top of my head), slava 17:10:52 lemme do that right now 17:11:03 default is case-ins I THINK 17:11:56 Sonarman, i mean for my language 17:12:00 Sonarman, i want to enforce one convention 17:14:04 Sonarman: whats the detached file name? 17:14:59 02 - manowar.mp3 17:15:06 ok 17:15:10 --- quit: Sonarman ("Lost terminal") 17:15:23 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-169-92-95.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 17:15:24 ... 17:15:25 lol 17:15:30 its motherwar 17:15:32 not manowar 17:15:33 lol 17:15:39 oops :) 17:17:02 bash-2.05b$ scp 64.169.92.95 /home/devusb/gravework_unhallowed.mp3 . 17:17:02 cp: cannot stat `64.169.92.95': No such file or directory 17:17:02 cp: cannot stat `/home/devusb/gravework_unhallowed.mp3': No such file or directory 17:17:05 wtf!? 17:17:13 it aint supposed to do that! 17:17:34 oh 17:17:36 nevermind 17:17:36 got it 17:18:22 * chris-cyg watches the scp penis 17:19:27 delete any copies you make when tiy;re dine 17:19:30 you're doebe 17:19:33 dibe 17:19:35 done 17:19:43 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-37.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 17:19:57 don't I always? 17:20:06 : addContact ( actor -- ) 17:20:06 contacts [ dup [ $name ] bind @ ] bind ; 17:20:06 no :) 17:20:10 what's cyg? 17:20:18 cygwin :) 17:20:20 just felt like pasting a bit of code ;) 17:20:21 ah. 17:20:29 I'm copying you, just adding a dash too. 17:20:29 very good slava 17:20:33 10 points to someone who deciphers it 17:20:42 ie, figures out what BIND does in my language 17:20:45 10 points towards ... ? 17:20:51 gilbertbsd, the grand prize! 17:20:57 being? a date with her??? 17:21:01 for that ... :) 17:21:31 a date with who? 17:21:35 her 17:21:52 slava: my guess is some sort of apply function 17:22:18 chris-cyg, its not abstract at all, its from my game. adds the given character to your player's mobile phone's contact list :) 17:22:38 slava which game is this? 17:22:59 ..... 17:22:59 lol 17:23:05 I thought it was some sort of built in 17:23:06 lol 17:23:24 gilbertbsd, shoot em up/RPG 17:23:34 url? 17:24:12 not released yet ;) 17:24:30 which platform is it targeting? 17:25:41 any platform that can run either sun's java, or GNU GCJ 17:26:14 --- quit: chris-cyg (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:26:36 --- quit: chris-xp (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:26:38 but you need opengl as well 17:27:32 --- join: arke (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-099-104.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 17:27:35 i think its the first game written in java that doesn't suck 17:27:45 largely becaues all previous attempts used java's built in graphics, not opengl 17:28:10 stupid 17:28:12 stupid 17:28:12 stupid 17:28:12 stupid 17:28:17 very good arke. 17:28:21 i hit the power button under my desk with my foot :( 17:28:23 you can spell the word too :) 17:28:26 --- nick: arke -> chris-xp 17:28:53 slava, so where does forth come in in all this? 17:29:14 * chris-xp is gonna do some java-ing 17:29:24 gilbertbsd, i have my own forth-like language that is compiled to JVM bytecode 17:31:02 slava can you explain bind please? :) 17:31:25 Sonarman, ok, so a typical forth has a data stack & call stack right, and call stack usually stores return addresses... 17:31:48 in my language, the return stack stores 'frames'; a frame is like a return address but it also has 1 other piece of info, a pointer to a namespace object 17:31:51 a namespace is a name/value list 17:32:04 the $ (get) and @ (set) words get/set values from the namespace at the top of the call stack 17:32:29 : bind ( namespace quotation -- ) ; pushes a new call stack frame with the given namespace object, and evaluates the quotation in that namespaec 17:32:32 [ ... ] is a code quotation 17:38:12 --- quit: Sonarman (Nick collision from services.) 17:38:32 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-160-164-141.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 17:38:56 slava, so what role does your language play in the game? 17:41:14 reboot. 17:41:15 brb 17:41:16 --- quit: gilbertbsd ("Leaving") 17:51:43 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:55:24 slava: hows the JVM bytecode like? 17:57:29 chris-xp, similar to assembly, except there's unlimited registers, and instead of subroutine jumps, there's higher-level INVOKE* opcodes that take a function name 17:58:03 is it RISCy or CISCy? 17:58:08 and how many stacks, if any? 17:59:13 w.r.t stacks its a bit odd 17:59:19 there's the usual return stack 17:59:25 and an operand stack thats used for the arithmetic opcodes 17:59:31 but the operand stack is not shared 17:59:35 each frame in the return stack has its own 17:59:40 and there's restrictions on the operand stack 18:00:05 its depth, and the offsets accessed from it, must be known at compile time -- so the VM doesn't really use an operand stack while executing, it does everything in registers 18:00:57 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-160-165-54.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 18:06:10 you using the stack(s)? 18:08:39 no 18:08:51 well i use the return stack since you cannot call functions otherwise 18:09:09 but the code generated for the operand stack does not correspond to the actual source 18:13:28 aha.... 18:13:31 heh 18:13:49 i wonder if one could produce an actual java CPU :P 18:13:59 its been done 18:14:04 !!! 18:14:12 java bytecode native? 18:14:20 except some instructions were implemented in software 18:14:23 eg, object allocation 18:14:32 coolness 18:15:09 except there's no need 18:15:33 i think writing a good VM is easier than designing a new cpu from scratch, think how hard it is to design a modern cpu 18:17:21 heh 18:17:22 :) 18:17:29 I'm gonna become a Java wiz. 18:17:42 does java have an inline assembler? :P 18:18:42 no 18:20:38 aww :P 18:21:35 i've never heard of anyone programming jvm assembly directly 18:26:03 it might be cool to do so. I could use the JVM without having to learn java or deal with object-oriented. Hmm: a forth directly in java machine code. now that might rock! 18:26:23 Sonarman: o.O man graveworm is weird 18:26:51 Sonarman: detached is pretty neat, kinda blink-182-ish, except the singing and sound 18:27:29 blockhead, the JVM is inherently OO; there's opcodes for creating new objects, getting/setting fields on objects, and invoking methods on objects 18:27:50 * blockhead neverminds 18:27:51 blockhead, and forth wouldn't be possible in the VM either, unless you do fancy code transforms in your compiler (like I do) 18:28:06 and it won't be a "true" forth due to type-checking and no direct memory access 18:28:35 * blockhead sighs. assembler is easier. :( 18:28:55 one nice thing about the JVM bytecode is that the VM does a lot of checks when you load it 18:29:11 so you know ahead of time if this VM code will stack underflow, or access an invalid pointer, etc 18:29:52 Cool. 18:30:11 slava: btw, what do you mean, fancy code transforms? 18:30:52 well not too fancy really 18:31:02 just using locals instead of the operand stack 18:31:33 in my language, stack words like dup, swap, rot don't actually generate any code 18:31:52 oh, yeah 18:31:53 cool stuff 18:32:03 makes for good optimizations :) 18:35:17 the VM does the bulk of the optimization at runtime 18:49:42 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 18:59:50 slava, Alien Flux is a Java game that doesn't suck: http://www.puppygames.net/info.php?game=Alien_Flux 19:01:15 'night all 19:01:25 --- quit: blockhead ("Client Exiting") 19:01:48 madgarden, i had a dream where i came up with some great idea for organizing forth code, and shadow blocks -- but i forget it now :) 19:02:51 don't you hate that? 19:03:26 slava, I had a dream the other night that I was telekinetic, but when I woke up and tried to move a pop can with my mind... no go. :( 19:05:42 madgarden, alienflux doesn't work. i start it, and then nothing... 19:05:48 madgarden, let me try it with the linux jdk 19:23:53 slava: which jdk is the "linux jdk"? 19:24:11 I have blackdown and ibm 19:28:24 the IBM jdk? 19:31:43 Herkamire, -vs- freebsd native jdk :) 19:32:39 https://www6.software.ibm.com/dl/lxdk/lxdk-p 19:32:42 slava: whats ant? 19:33:24 chris-xp, java make 19:33:31 ah fun 19:33:36 hrm 19:33:43 eclipse is pretty big.. 19:33:49 don't use eclipse 19:33:54 ... 19:33:57 fucking A 19:34:01 real programmers use jedit: www.jedit.org 19:34:16 slava: AD TROLL! AD TROLL! 19:35:19 slava: watch it 19:35:42 hrm 19:35:44 actually 19:35:47 jedit seems pretty nice 19:36:49 it doesn't have forth syntax highlightign yet... 19:37:19 ugh 19:37:24 OSX is so damn pretty... 19:37:56 wow 19:38:05 jedit is like IRC+slashdot+editor+everything 19:38:07 does jedit actually use the correct menubar on OS X yet? 19:38:16 chris-xp: yeah, it's emacs, but it's slow :-) 19:38:18 chandler, yes, but the apple java has a few bugs with that 19:38:24 chandler, slow on os x maybe :) 19:38:53 heh 19:39:25 slava: does it have about 3 billion variations of the command esc ctrl+b meta+shift+c foo-mode? 19:39:47 chris-xp, yes, except instead of C+x we have C+e as the prefix :) 19:39:55 C+e n s -- narrow-to-selection :) 19:40:03 :( 19:40:04 bad. 19:40:06 No way. 19:40:11 but all thes standard shortcuts exist 19:40:16 oh 19:40:19 C+c copy, C+v paste, C+x cut, C+z undo, C+s save, etc etc 19:40:21 _standard_ or _emacs_? 19:40:25 aah 19:40:26 goood 19:40:27 :) 19:40:29 * chandler notes those are only standard on windows 19:40:31 jedit good 19:40:34 and clones thereof 19:40:35 chandler, and mac 19:40:45 hm? 19:40:50 mac uses command 19:40:52 chandler: on KDE and Gnome etc. etc. too 19:41:00 chandler, on mac os, jedit uses command instead of control 19:41:02 chandler: and it was that way on my ancient mac too 19:41:03 oh, good 19:41:19 chris-xp: never, on MacOS... control was never the shortcut omdifier 19:41:34 and KDE and GNOME's toolkits are both clones of Motif, which is a clone of Windows 19:41:35 well, it was something like that 19:41:49 and windows is a clone of mac+OS/2 19:42:03 mac is a clone of xerox smalltalk :) 19:42:19 in a poor way 19:42:26 yeah, but at some point... windows ended significantly more crufty than those other ones 19:42:48 chandler, we need a lisp OS :) 19:42:56 wait, this is #forth 19:43:09 slava: I'd suffice for a good OS X lisp IDE, or a good CLIM one 19:43:17 slava: for windoze, should I use IBM or Sun? 19:43:30 chris-xp, i always use sun. some people claim ibm's is faster, but i never noticed 19:43:36 "jEdit 4.2 running on Linux, contributed by Slava Pestov." 19:44:17 since it doesn't matter, I'm choosing IBM because I lost alot of respect for Sun. 19:44:30 chris-xp, ibm's jdk is based on sun's codebase. 19:44:50 chris-xp, just make sure its 1.4 not 1.3 19:44:53 slava: but its still different :) 19:44:54 Ok 19:46:33 eek 19:46:38 trying to find the damn IMB JDK 19:46:47 chris-xp, just get the damn sun jdk :) 19:46:49 chris-xp, java.net 19:46:54 or java.com 19:46:55 FINE BITCH! 19:46:57 :) 19:48:14 i think this game will be my last java app :) 19:48:35 uum 19:48:37 slava? 19:48:43 slava: why is the sun sdk eval? 19:48:52 eh? 19:48:57 its totally free 19:49:03 you're getting the wrong sdk or something 19:49:09 J2EE(TM) SDK 1.4 Developer Release, English (j2eesdk-1_4-dr-windows-eval.exe, 116.92 MB) 19:50:13 why are you downloading J2EE? it requires an already installed JDK. 19:50:19 and its not needed for client side devel 19:50:19 ... 19:50:24 OK 19:50:30 where the hell do these damn sites hide their JDK 19:50:40 http://www.java.com/ 19:50:43 click 'get java' 19:50:46 click 'windows instlal' 19:52:50 slava: and tell me, why isn't there a windows binary? 19:52:56 er 19:52:58 of course there is 19:53:09 no 19:53:12 no windows installer 19:53:22 http://www.jedit.org/index.php?page=download&platform=windows#instructions 19:54:49 oh for jedit 19:54:53 download the java installer 19:54:56 obviously it works on windows 19:55:25 errr 19:55:25 where? 19:55:33 * chris-xp is feeling stupid 19:55:48 its at the top of the download java 19:55:52 s/java/page/ 19:56:02 Latest development version: 4.2pre9 19:56:02 Download: Java-based installer 2.1 Mb (For any operating system) 19:56:54 http://www.jedit.org/index.php?page=download <--- where on the page? 19:57:08 oh 19:57:09 you'll find it eventually 19:57:09 nevermind 19:57:11 (DUH) 19:57:24 its because its in purple, and it looks like the table header 19:57:40 well i don't expect users of a text editor to have problems with reading comprehension 19:57:49 Ack :) 19:58:16 JDK installed, jEdit downloading... 19:59:18 did you get 4.2 or 4.1? 19:59:42 devel release 19:59:44 nice installed 19:59:48 s/installed/installer 20:03:03 YES 20:03:12 an editor without braindead tab settings 20:03:30 ? 20:07:01 lots of "homebrew" editors have way braindead tab settings 20:07:06 yours are like they're supposed to be :) 20:07:14 (then again, your editor is famous :)) 20:07:19 8 spaces per tab, & hard tabs? :) 20:07:27 YES! 20:07:30 it can all be changed so what's the big deal? 20:07:33 heh 20:07:36 the default is just my preferred coding style 20:07:37 but it comes default like that 20:07:46 and its not an additive tab but a corrective tab 20:08:50 of course 20:11:06 --- join: chris-xp-jedit (~chris-xp-@wbar8.lax1-4-11-099-104.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 20:11:12 hi there 20:11:24 :) 20:11:40 using the irc plugin? 20:11:44 you'll quickly discover that it sucks 20:12:03 oh yeah 20:12:04 :P 20:12:06 it does 20:12:21 but you got somebody else working on a new one, right? :) 20:12:25 yes 20:12:37 -chris-xp-jedit- VERSION IRC plugin 2.0 for jEdit - http://www.iq-computing.de 20:12:52 with a decent IRC plugin, jedit is gonna r00l 20:12:58 teehee 20:12:58 why? 20:12:58 man 20:13:11 well, it already r00ls, without having really used it yet. 20:13:14 because ... 20:13:14 an irc plugin is useless.. 20:13:30 with an IRC plugin, jedit would be my only X window :P 20:13:43 oh, and a browser plugin (konqueror!) 20:14:06 i use very few plugins 20:14:29 hrm, i like the fact that you can put them together and stuff... 20:16:27 ack, you can't change IRC plugin colors 20:16:38 have you checked plugin options? 20:17:33 just saw that too.. 20:18:29 * chris-xp-jedit blah 20:18:30 hrm 20:18:39 doesn't seem to let me switch to WonB 20:19:26 now, a browser plugin, and jEdit is gonna be the 0n3 20:19:29 :P 20:21:47 now...how to enable syntax highlighting? 20:23:13 its on by default 20:23:20