00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.02.22
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10:59:34 <slava> hi
10:59:46 <arke> hi
10:59:52 <slava> what's up :)
11:02:34 <arke> nothing :)
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12:38:22 <slava> hi wossname
12:39:15 <wossname> hello
12:42:44 <arke> :)
12:44:01 <wossname> hi arke~
12:46:14 <arke> :)
12:47:11 <mur> terve
12:49:28 <arke> terve mur :)
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13:05:56 <madgarden> I hate writing resumes.
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16:11:03 <arke> kc5tja: hi :)
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17:14:45 <slava> hi arke and kc5tja
17:36:16 <kc5tja> Crap, I left my terminal running again.
17:46:42 <arke> eck :)
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19:13:46 <slava> hi Herkamire
19:16:13 <madgarden> Wow, not much Forth talk going on in here the past couple days.
19:16:55 <slava> i'm writing some factor code right now ;)
19:17:02 <slava> showing speech bubbles when characters in the game talk
19:17:20 <slava> and factoring the conversation words to make code that uses them more clear
19:19:07 <madgarden> Screenshot!
19:19:29 <slava> in a few mins
19:19:40 <networm> factor is a game written in forth?
19:19:56 <blockhead> factor is a language
19:20:06 <networm> oh, heh
19:20:08 <slava> yes, the language for scripting the game
19:20:27 <madgarden> networm is writing a forth right now.
19:20:37 <slava> as is everyone else :)
19:20:45 <blockhead> :)
19:20:46 <madgarden> Heh, yep. Best way to learn though eh?
19:20:55 <blockhead> yes
19:21:08 <madgarden> Actually, I am not writing a Forth right now. I'm playing Nethack. :P
19:21:33 <blockhead> madgarden: that brings back memories  :)
19:21:44 <blockhead> although I played moria more than nethack
19:22:05 <networm> my forth already can execute words! :)
19:22:07 <madgarden> Yea, I played Moria first... on the AMiga.
19:22:22 <madgarden> Actually, played Sword of Fargoal on C64 first before any other roguelike.
19:22:27 <networm> i played "hack" on the amiga, before they prepended "net"
19:22:40 <madgarden> networm, do you mean EXECUTE? Or execute dictionary words?
19:23:03 <networm> well, both, since internally the latter uses the first
19:23:49 <networm> and i just realized that i can name another internal word to '
19:25:21 <networm> is this allowed in forth-83: : recword ... recword ; ? or do i need something special to make recursive words?
19:25:24 <madgarden> Though, ' should use PARSE or WORD, FIND...
19:25:53 <madgarden> Not sure recursion is even allowed in F83. 
19:26:09 <blockhead> networm: I think you use the "recruse" word to make a word all itself.
19:26:16 <blockhead> "recurse", I mean
19:26:27 <networm> yes, madgarden told me so.. but it's not in forth-83
19:26:36 * blockhead nudges a "c" in front of that "all"
19:27:33 <madgarden> well, it's a useful word to have anyway
19:27:34 <blockhead> oh
19:28:32 <networm> hm, yeah. guess there's no point seeing forth-83 as some guidelines to base this on
19:28:39 <networm> *as anything but
19:31:03 <madgarden> Well, it's nice to implement F83, but don't restrict yourself from going further.
19:41:26 <slava> madgarden, slava.kicks-ass.org/slava/snap.png
19:41:36 <slava> madgarden, doing some illegal stuff in the suburbs :)
19:42:11 <slava> here's another one: slava.kicks-ass.org/slava/game2.png
19:42:15 <slava> burgling a house :)
19:43:17 <slava> and here's another one:  slava.kicks-ass.org/slava/game3.png going nuts with the plasma gun :)
19:44:27 <madgarden> Haha, cool stuff.
19:44:39 <madgarden> game2.png isn't working though.
19:44:59 <slava> fixed
19:45:08 <slava> note the flock of birds in game2.png
19:45:30 <arke> hi
19:45:37 <slava> hi arke
19:45:41 <arke> :)
19:46:38 <madgarden> heh, yea. Looks like you got a ton of stuff going on.
19:46:44 <madgarden> The poor cows!
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20:20:42 <ASau> Dobroe utro!
20:21:00 <slava> hi ASau
20:21:04 <ASau> Slava: Den' RKKA!
20:21:16 <ASau> Happy holiday!
20:21:32 <arke> dobryjj vecher
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20:37:23 <blockhead> 'night all
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21:40:26 <arke> kc5tja: C++ evil, no?
21:41:04 <hovil> booyah
21:41:05 <kc5tja> Depends on how you use it.
21:41:22 <kc5tja> Any tool that man has made can be used as a weapon -- even armor.
21:42:05 <proteusguy> C++ is a fine language. please don't bash it. its different in purpose than 4th.
21:42:30 <arke> Its ok, just weird to me, as I'm more of a C-y guy
21:42:36 <arke> proteusguy: can you help me out with something? 
21:42:44 <proteusguy> what's that?
21:43:02 <arke> void CRegister::SetWriteTrigger(tfn_v_2_rCRegister f)
21:43:02 <arke> {
21:43:05 <arke> [snip]
21:43:09 <arke> syntax error on )
21:43:20 <arke> tfn_v_2_rCRegister = pointer to function type
21:44:37 <proteusguy> syntax error? hmm... I think your error is elsewhere perhaps? what is the definition of tfn_v_2_rCRegister?
21:45:02 <arke> typedef void (*tfn_v_2_rCRegister) (CRegister& , CRegister&);
21:45:47 <arke> actually
21:45:49 <proteusguy> Looks like some nasty MSoft naming conventions! :P ok the typedef looks ok. What happens if you just block comment out the entire function?
21:45:50 <arke> I see that now
21:46:00 <arke> it gives me an error on ',' on the typedef
21:46:22 <proteusguy> oh?
21:46:27 <arke> actually, its me going overboard on hungarian notation :P
21:46:34 <arke> CRegister is a class...
21:46:42 <proteusguy> yes HN *is* evil. :)
21:46:55 <slava> arke, rewrite in 4th :)
21:47:02 <arke> actually, I think its OK if not overused :)
21:47:10 <arke> (like I'm doing there, but I don't wanna change it)
21:48:20 <proteusguy> HN may have some place in C code but in C++ it is actually quite detrimental. Correct C++ code is a completely different animal than C. C is best used as a platform-independent assembly language.
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21:49:03 <arke> er, :) ok
21:49:11 <arke> ASau: dobryjj vecher!
21:49:13 <ASau> I'm back.
21:49:18 <arke> proteusguy: got any idea whats wrong though?
21:50:05 <proteusguy> No - nothing wrong with a function ptr type that takes a reference to a class instance. CRegister is already declared at the time of the typedef definition, right?
21:51:44 <arke> erm, is it bad if it follows right after? :P
21:51:56 <arke> i guess its not, but they're dependent of each other
21:52:07 <proteusguy> Could be a compiler goof. Try giving the parms names like a and b. I still say to remark out the whole SetWriteTrigger method and see if you really don't have a syntax error from somewhere else.
21:52:57 <arke> nope, same thing...
21:53:06 <arke> It seems that CRegister isn't defined yet..
21:53:10 <arke> typedef void (* tfn_v_2_rCRegister) (CRegister&, CRegister&);
21:53:11 <arke> class CRegister
21:53:11 <arke> {
21:53:16 <arke> [snip]
21:53:42 <arke> so, the actual class declaration follows after the typedef, but the typedef is needed in the class declaration...
21:53:47 <proteusguy> you need to have class CRegister { ... }; completed before that typedef.
21:53:59 <arke> but CRegister needs that typedef
21:54:24 <proteusguy> hmm... you can pass a pointer instead of a reference in that funtion pointer?
21:55:16 <arke> lemme see...
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21:55:27 <proteusguy> pass by value and reference require a full definition (for stack size allocation purposes), pass by pointer doesn't. Can just have a forward declaration.
21:55:40 <arke> nope, same deal.
21:55:54 <proteusguy> But you can still pass references to your class in your class methods so that shouldn't be your problem actually.
21:56:11 <arke> I'm gonna try placing the typedef after the class
21:56:21 <proteusguy> yeah - you got some other problem beyond what you've posted.
21:57:06 <proteusguy> I'd be glad to look at your header file content.
21:57:06 <arke> ugh
21:57:14 <arke>  /msg paste?
21:57:24 <proteusguy> sure how big is it?
21:57:45 <arke> 10-15 lines
21:57:50 <proteusguy> np go for it
22:02:28 <kc5tja> HN is also not necessary in C if you choose your names properly.
22:02:49 <kc5tja> I've posted all too many times tips on writing self-documenting code in any language, not just C or Forth.
22:02:58 <proteusguy> I agree. HN is never necessary.
22:02:59 <kc5tja> Every time, I've been met with ridicule and derision.
22:03:34 <arke> kc5tja: examples? :)
22:03:39 <kc5tja> It reminds me of the socialist parties of this country, who are routinely ridiculed for the utter failures that are USSR and Cuba.
22:03:41 * arke has to go to bed in -20 seconds :(
22:03:51 <kc5tja> arke: Write what you mean.
22:04:05 <arke> <kc5tja> I've posted all too many times tips on writing self-documenting code in any language, not just C or Forth.
22:04:12 <kc5tja> You asked for an example.
22:04:14 <kc5tja> I just posted one.
22:04:17 <arke> but, er, I do have to go to be now :)
22:04:17 <kc5tja> Write what you mean.
22:04:22 <arke> oh
22:04:25 <arke> i meant code example
22:04:34 <kc5tja> Give me a context.
22:04:51 <arke> nevermind actually, gotta sleep, bye
22:04:55 * kc5tja shrugs
22:04:58 <kc5tja> Me too actually.
22:05:04 <kc5tja> College tomorrow, then work.
22:07:08 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-sleep
22:07:56 * proteusguy believes socialist parties should be ridiculed everywhere... :P
22:08:42 <ASau> Ha-ha!
22:09:04 <ASau> Better learn what do they speak about.
22:09:33 <ASau> You're just ignorant.
22:10:50 <ASau> BTW, what do you think about GPL?
22:10:52 <proteusguy> No I'm very aware. 
22:11:13 <ASau> What are you aware of?
22:11:45 <proteusguy> I believe in Open Source but don't go for the GPL too much. I'm libertarian. But anyone should be able to use any license they like for their own code.
22:12:16 <proteusguy> I'm aware of what socialist parties speak about - or at least the basis for their positions.
22:12:17 <ASau> What license do you prefer?
22:13:00 <ASau> Hm. And what's the basis?
22:13:01 <proteusguy> LPGL is ok, as is BSD or other common "approved" licenses. 
22:13:51 <ASau> OK. So you say that you agree with stealing your code?
22:14:37 <proteusguy> You're really aching for the political debate eh? :P OK - socialism presumes that other people have rights to the individuals private property.
22:14:38 <ASau> You've written code for free and you never will be able to use this code.
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22:16:38 <proteusguy> huh? I believe in IP rights and don't demand all code be open source. Just prefer it and think it has its own economic value.
22:18:38 <ASau> And what's IP?
22:19:07 <ASau> I think it's like a math formulae.
22:19:24 <ASau> Anyway, what's algorithms?
22:19:34 <proteusguy> Inellectual Property.
22:19:42 <proteusguy> except I can't spell it! :P haha
22:19:47 <slava> i agree with ASau.
22:19:50 <proteusguy> evidently I lost mine.
22:20:19 <slava> imagine of pythagoras tried to patent sqrt(sum(i=0..n,x[i]*y[i]))
22:21:35 <proteusguy> Don't confuse current screwed up situation of patent office with correct IP protection!
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22:22:00 <slava> proteusguy, what is correct IP protection?
22:23:54 <proteusguy> Read the US Constitution and you'll see a correct purpose and justification for IP protection. You'll also see our USPTO has gone far outside of that scope (as has the rest of the US govt).
22:24:36 <proteusguy> Friends - I really love debating IP and politics but I gotta wrap up some work before tomorrow (which it nearly is). To be continued...
22:25:28 <ASau> OK. Let us patent "the way to calculate hypotenuse of triangle."
22:26:18 <ASau> Nevermind it is clearly based on math. formula.
22:27:05 <hovil> intellectual property ey
22:27:14 <hovil> not my cup of tea.
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