00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.02.17 00:05:29 --- quit: LOOPHOG () 00:41:38 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 00:43:42 --- quit: VitaminMoo ("Leaving") 01:44:37 --- quit: Serg () 02:43:48 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 04:02:51 --- join: proteusguy (proteusguy@153.sub-166-153-53.myvzw.com) joined #forth 04:35:37 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 04:59:59 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:05:23 --- join: proteusguy (proteusguy@252.sub-166-153-53.myvzw.com) joined #forth 05:35:06 --- join: hovil (~hovil@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 07:26:16 --- join: _proteus (proteusguy@80.sub-166-153-55.myvzw.com) joined #forth 07:27:00 --- quit: proteusguy (No route to host) 07:37:55 --- quit: ChanServ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:55 --- quit: TreyB (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:55 --- quit: OrngeTide (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:55 --- quit: ianp (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:55 --- quit: slava (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:57 --- quit: mur (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:57 --- quit: Herkamire (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:57 --- quit: arke (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:57 --- quit: skylan (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:58 --- quit: _proteus (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:58 --- quit: madgarden (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:58 --- quit: Robert (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:58 --- quit: cmeme (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:58 --- quit: qFox (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:58 --- quit: warp0b00 (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:58 --- quit: fridge (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:37:59 --- quit: liralen (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:38:00 --- quit: hovil (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:38:01 --- quit: zardon (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:38:01 --- quit: chandler (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:39:13 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: _proteus (proteusguy@80.sub-166-153-55.myvzw.com) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: hovil (~hovil@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: warp0b00 (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@kitchener-hse-ppp3576218.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: liralen (~user@206.61.132.86) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: arke (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-099-104.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-113-229-145.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-8f5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: skylan (sjh@nwc57-188.nwconx.net) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: zardon (~zardon@h24-68-59-145.gv.shawcable.net) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: mur (~mur@mgw2.uiah.fi) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: ianp (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- join: chandler (~chandler@chandler.registered.freenode) joined #forth 07:39:13 --- mode: irc.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 08:03:42 --- quit: _proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:14:40 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@register.rice.edu) joined #forth 08:22:13 --- join: thin (~cduce@csnet023.cariboo.bc.ca) joined #forth 08:23:13 --- quit: thin ("Leaving") 09:06:15 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 09:39:46 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:40:03 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 09:40:32 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:40:38 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 09:46:48 Has anyone experimented with creating a Forth that has a more readable word set? 09:51:21 Maybe... but most of them probably gave up when @ , . : ; etc. weren't one character anymore :) 09:51:28 Forthers are lazy, heh. 09:52:00 I can understand that. :) 09:52:15 Something with a more BASIC-like syntax could appeal to a larger group though. 09:52:49 Heh. 09:53:09 Idiots will always be in majority, sure ;) 09:53:17 And the "guts" words would be easier to understand if they were more verbose. 09:53:18 Heh. 09:53:51 Hey, BASIC is fun. But yea, Forthers seem to be more isolationist it seems. 09:53:59 On the other hand, shorter words means you can fit more code in less space. 09:54:07 Which makes the code easier to read. 09:56:31 Hmm. It makes it easier to read, if you alread know what the words mean. A lot of these short words are more symbols than anything. 09:59:44 Would it still be Forth if the entire "language" was changed, but everything worked the same as always? 10:00:59 Sure. 10:01:11 But it would be shunned by the die-hards. ;) 10:01:30 Hehe... i440r would scream that "ITS NO FORTH!!!!" 10:02:06 Try to make some odd mix between Forth and normal Pascal-style languages, let's see if anyone uses it. ;) 10:02:16 We could market it as a "user-friendly Forth". 10:04:50 The underlying system of Forth is the real goldmine. The language of it is a bit dated, and I think that's what the naysayers see. A "modernized" Forth with a user-friendly word set would be interesting. 10:07:35 isn't that kind of what slava's language is? 10:28:20 hi 10:28:36 slava, we were just talking about you. 10:28:47 ...and your blasphemous forth. ;) 10:29:16 well it still uses symbols for a lot of stuff: : ; [ ] $ @ . 10:29:28 What's $ ? 10:29:52 a bit of an error on my part :) 10:29:56 $ is get variable, @ is set :) 10:30:50 Heh. Well, going with what I was saying above, one could use GET and SET. Or PEEK and POKE. ;) 10:31:27 well my parser has the shorthand syntax $foo which expands to "foo" $, and @foo which expands to "foo" @ 10:31:59 Aha. 10:33:38 320 words out of 709 in the game library compile 10:33:46 but some seem to be miscompiled :) 10:34:16 the only major remaining compiler feature is the compilation of recursive words. 10:34:20 What sort of game library words? 10:34:43 spawning actors, changing actor state, interaction with characters, etc 10:35:12 13,000 lines of factor code in the game so far 10:39:27 slava: Replace @ with PEEK and I'll stab you. 10:39:32 er, that was yo madgarden. 10:39:58 to* 10:40:00 I can't type today. 10:41:34 Haha. I like PEEK. :P I use it in my Forthy system test for accessing C variables. 10:42:13 slava, are you planning to write the whole game in Factor? Or is this a scripting interface for the game? 10:44:51 madgarden, 38,000 lines of java code :) 10:45:47 So Factor is your Java replacement? 10:45:50 People write games in Java? 10:46:12 madgarden, not really a 'replacement'. i'm using factor instead of the ad-hoc mix of xml, property files, and scripts you find in other java apps. 10:46:14 Java language replacement... compiling Forth-like source to JVM bytecode... right? 10:46:25 madgarden, the only type of data file the game understands is factor scripts 10:46:38 maps are factor scripts, saved games (when they're done), and so on 10:46:45 Hmm. 10:50:02 when the game is done i expect to have about the same amount of factor code as java code 10:50:11 since missions will be coded in factor, and there will be a lot of them 10:52:13 What kind of game are you making? 10:53:55 2d top view shoot-em-up/RPG 10:56:45 Neat. 10:58:27 Ahh right, the gangland sorta thing. 11:00:40 wha does HERE do in forth? 11:01:13 returns the address of the start of free data space. 11:02:14 --- join: I440r (~mark4@165.139.76.25) joined #forth 11:02:33 Hey 11:02:55 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@dunwlessnat.rice.edu) joined #forth 11:03:30 hi :) 11:03:32 im at the library 11:03:44 ive been working on the isforth web page some more, documenting the kernel 11:03:50 not quite done yet but close :) 11:03:55 Neat 11:03:58 then i have to figure out a way to upload it all to clss.net lol 11:04:10 :) 11:48:55 robert do you have an ftp server on your home box ? 11:49:18 i dont have any way to send my new web page stuff to clss.net other than to ftp it FROM there 11:49:36 i.e. if i log in i can wget it but i cant ftp TO my account and PUT it 11:51:12 nevermind i think i got it :) 11:55:04 nope 11:55:05 fuck 12:02:43 FEMALE UNDERFLOW ERROR AT 'fuck' 12:02:43 ok 12:06:47 Not a public one, I440r 12:06:57 k 12:07:00 im trying scp 12:11:56 robert check out isforth.clss.net :) 12:12:00 its a work in progress tho 12:12:06 the kernel link is almost complete! 12:12:20 other than a spelling mistook i just noticed heh 12:12:44 "Lets not publish books, books would just require that everyone know how to read and we can't expect EVERYONE to know how to read now can we?" :D 12:16:39 fixed :) 12:16:54 heh 12:23:08 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 12:34:16 I440r, do you still use Debian? 12:35:03 no i switched to gentoo 12:35:10 u got a debian problem ? 12:37:34 No, just considering what linux to start using. 12:37:42 Why did you switch? 12:38:33 slackware is pretty nice 12:38:53 Mostly I just want to set up a CVS server on my old P166. 12:39:48 because gentoo isnt 4 years behind the curve heh 12:39:52 gentoo is VERY good 12:39:59 their install documentation is second to none 12:40:17 and when a noob asks a question the automatic reply is NOT "rtfm" 12:40:24 Debian documentation == #debian on Freenode :P 12:40:33 Same with gentoo? 12:40:39 gentoo kicks debians ass big time 12:40:42 BUT!!! 12:40:59 if you do a stage 1 install be prepared to be without a working machine for at least three days :P 12:41:06 Heh 12:41:12 maybe as long as a week if you have a slow box 12:41:16 or more 12:41:24 My computer would melt if it was to compile more than bash 12:41:26 P200 :) 12:41:28 you can do a stage three though :) 12:41:44 lol it would take you a month no matter WHAT sort of connection you had hehe 12:41:49 i would suggest a stage 2 12:41:54 or 3 12:41:57 even 12:42:02 I'd suggest sticking to Debian 12:42:07 * Robert follows his own advice 12:42:14 well for that box maybe :) 12:42:27 Yea, I don't need the biggest and best. 12:42:28 but i would do a stage 1 on it if it was on a decent connection :) 12:42:37 gentoo isnt biggest or best 12:42:45 but it is a source level distro 12:42:45 I've only limited experience with Redhat, and haven't linuxed for a couple years. 12:42:50 a package managed source level distro 12:43:05 Yea, don't need source-level at this point. 12:43:14 go with gentoo stage 3 install if you can download the iso's 12:43:14 Don't plan on recompiling anything but my own apps. :) 12:43:21 no - its not like other source level distros 12:43:24 its managed! 12:43:25 How many ISOs? 12:43:29 and you dont need to do anything!!! 12:43:33 just need the live cd 12:43:37 Hmm. 12:43:38 u dont need any others 12:43:46 but it will install OVER the net 12:43:48 u on a fast pipe ? 12:43:53 Yep. 12:44:00 I440r: It's the best one I have 12:44:14 well download the live cd and boot to it 12:44:24 if you arent totally sold by the time it boots install debian :) 12:44:36 I'll probably be doing a CD install after I wipe Win95 off that box. *shudder* 12:44:44 heh 12:44:56 OK, I'll take a look at both of 'em. 12:45:01 get the live cd and boot it :) 12:45:07 My linux geek buddy is pushing Debian. 12:45:10 look at the gentoo install documentation 12:45:29 get the gentoo install cd and put it in HIS machine and boot it. it wont install anything 12:45:33 just show it to him 12:45:43 ill be you he wants a copy of that cd :P 12:46:05 After all, he wouldn't be using linux if he weren't in to wasting time. 12:46:14 heh 12:46:14 And nothings better for that than Gentoo. 12:46:20 not so 12:46:43 gentoo is fine. you do all your installing and upgrading while you sleep/work 12:46:49 not when your using the machine 12:47:43 and what's the benefit? unless you're tweaking CFLAGS you'll end up with MD5-identical binaries anyway 12:48:21 not so 12:48:35 you tweak your USE flags 12:49:00 so whe you install FOO that normally requires BAR but you have BAR masked it will compile FOO without support for BAR 12:49:08 thats the advantage 12:49:27 I'd rather just have a distro that is tested together and works, not something that breaks on an insufficiently tested USE flag or packages which weren't ready to ship but put in gentoo anyway... 12:49:28 for instance i have every single thing related to gnome totally masked and blocked here 12:49:32 Is it going to work with 32M of RAM? :) 12:49:39 yet i can install things that usually REQUIRE gnome support 12:49:49 they are just "sans" the gnome bullshit 12:49:55 sure 12:52:57 madgarden: just FYI, I'd recommend trying Slackware too 12:53:28 slackware is source based but not very well managed 12:53:45 slackware is kinda blah on the same level of blahness redhat has 12:53:50 hh 12:53:54 slackware is /not/ source based, unless you count "originally compiled from source code" 12:54:17 it is fast, stable, and up-to-date all at the same time, and Pat makes really good decisions (like not including PAM) 12:54:27 I'll check it out. 12:54:32 hehe 12:54:39 http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5307 12:54:46 osnews sucks 12:55:03 yeah, but it's a positive review :-) 12:55:41 I440r, any idea what the difference is between "basic" and "x86" gentoo livecd releases? 12:56:04 nope but the x86 is prolly the one you want 12:56:13 prolly 12:56:50 Hmm. I guess I need to put a CDROM in that old box, heh. 12:56:56 heh 12:57:10 you could do a NFS install... 12:57:16 eek 12:58:27 im hungry 12:59:56 On a totally related note... who's taken the myers briggs temperment test? 13:00:09 heh i would probably fail it :P 13:00:11 I'm curious to see if there's a personality trend amongst Forthers. 13:00:23 INTP here 13:00:37 INTP here too. 13:00:42 I440r, http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes1.htm 13:00:51 I think INTP is the general trend amongst programmers :-) 13:01:08 Or there's a quicky version here: http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/tt/t-articl/mb-simpl.htm 13:01:18 Yea, but the "P" element often results in unfinished projects. :) 13:01:22 im doing a job search right now, thats kinda a high priority :/ 13:01:30 i dont want another two years unemployed 13:01:32 dammit! 13:01:43 hm, this is a bad version of the test 13:01:46 So, INTJ is often the productive types. 13:01:59 they don't mix up the questions 13:02:09 Well the quicky version is probably better anyway. 13:02:15 Only 4 questions. 13:03:19 OK, well there's also this version: http://similarminds.com/myers-briggs.html 13:08:35 --- quit: hovil ("Leaving") 13:11:45 I440r, I'm also out of work. Yay. 13:13:48 heh 13:14:43 out of work + nethack... not a good combination. ;) 13:19:40 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 13:19:51 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 13:22:01 what? doesn't anyone have a job? 13:22:55 * OrngeTide is looking for work too 13:23:01 i'm a student + contractor 13:24:56 * kc5tja has two jobs, soon to be three. 13:25:14 All in the name of paying rent. 13:25:25 Is it any wonder why people are attracted to Communism? 13:30:06 lol 13:30:12 hi kc5! 13:30:15 Howdy 13:30:29 * kc5tja has to leave for about a half hour real quick though. I realized I no longer have my razor blade. >:( 13:30:34 SO I have to purchase a new one. 13:30:41 OrngeTide, a friend of mine is working towards getting me a contract somewhere in california 13:30:45 * kc5tja needs it to drop the inner oven cavity into the outer box. 13:30:47 prolly a months worth of work 13:31:13 I440r, can you telecommute to it? 13:31:20 no heh 13:45:36 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:45:45 I440r, what will you do after the month is up? move back? 13:46:07 yup 13:46:15 look for MORE work :P 13:47:46 geez. it 13:47:58 's pretty expensive to move. cuz they want big ass deposits and stuff out here. 13:48:11 nah ill be living in a hotel heh 13:48:22 are they paying for it? 13:48:25 yes 13:48:32 oh. then that's not so bad 13:48:46 you'll be making california money without having california rent:) 13:48:52 :) 13:48:54 maybe 13:49:24 well $50/hr was the lowest i've ever gotten paid out here. 13:52:02 im hoping for that PLUS per-deim 13:53:59 good luck :) 13:54:04 ) 13:54:17 per deim is not negotiable, ill get that 13:54:30 its paid by the government 13:55:09 ah. okay. 13:55:37 if yo work on a contract job more than 50 miles from you permanant residence you get per-deim 13:55:48 right. 13:55:52 if anyone tries to tell you you cant get them they are lying 13:58:10 I440r, is isforth native compiled or direct threaded? 13:58:15 direct 13:58:31 why not native compiled? 13:58:36 native doesn't seem to popular. 13:58:53 slava, well i know there are serious cache problems when dealing with native code on modern architectures 13:58:59 ? 13:59:06 direct threaded is actually faster than a poorly implement native code generator. 13:59:25 im oposed to subroutine threading in general 13:59:37 it causes more problems than it is worth 14:00:03 slava, like icache and dcache are seperate on x86, mips, ppc, sparc, arm, etc. and if you have code and data on the same cache lines (or even adjecent cache lines on some of these) it drastically reduces the effectiveness of the cache (sometimes down to 0) 14:00:21 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@dunwlessnat.rice.edu) joined #forth 14:00:23 ok 14:00:30 it can turn that brand new 2Ghz athlon into a P233. 14:00:34 --- quit: Nutssh (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:00:57 lol 14:01:15 i do have code and data in the same pages 14:01:20 and i could care less :P 14:01:21 I440r, well in gcc you can do label variables so people writing ugly C-based forths no longer have an execuse for subroutine threading either 14:01:44 I440r, well a cache line is usually 32 bytes. as long as they are 32 bytes away you should be okay. 14:02:05 call dovariable 14:02:07 dd blah 14:02:14 i think thats less than 32 bytes :P 14:02:21 smooth. 14:02:55 however - doesnt the call flush the cache anyway ? 14:03:09 so arent we going to be reloading the cache anyway ? 14:03:38 i want to write a native code forth for my sparc classic. (bootstrapping myself from open firmware into a legitimate forth). although this whole code-data seperation is even more important on sparc than on x86 14:03:59 use indirect threading then 14:04:09 indirect threading on sparc is bad. 14:04:31 sparc and mips both have really picky branch optimization. and it will cause serious problems. 14:04:55 on mips r4k you shouldn't even use jump tables when construction small switch-case statements. you should chain a bunch of conditional branches like if-else 14:05:04 wow 14:05:08 too fscking cheak to have TWO caches - one for code, one for data 14:05:33 thats fugly 14:05:43 hehe 14:06:02 forth on harvard architecture is even worse. 14:06:06 no 14:06:13 everyone just does direct threaded. 14:06:16 i have a very very nice direct threaded 8051 forth :P 14:06:18 no 14:06:23 they usually do indirect threading 14:06:26 oh. okay. 14:06:41 mine is very rare in that its a direct threaded 8051 forth hehe 14:06:44 but nobody does native generation. it's too hard and i don't see anyway you could make it ANS anyways. 14:06:44 unpublised as yet 14:07:00 actually theres a sub threaded 8051 forth too 14:07:04 I440r, i would've thought indirect threaded would be a better choice on something like 8051. 14:07:07 cammel ? 14:07:17 yea. lets not worry about sub threaded forths. :P 14:07:24 it usually is. but my direct threaded is good :) 14:07:30 OrngeTide: how would it be a problem having code and data in the same cache line when you have separate caches? 14:08:04 oh. 14:08:19 I guess if you have hardware that tries to keep the caches in sync, right? 14:08:34 tathi, yea. i/o in one invalidates the other. 14:09:09 OK. I'm on PPC which doesn't do that kind of thing AFAIK. 14:09:16 although that's for L1. L2 and L3 is often a unified cache. so the cache hit isn't as bad as it could be 14:10:39 tathi, yea? i had lots of cache problems when i worked on ppc850 and 860. i wish i still had the manuals. i could look up and see if this specifically was an issue 14:10:40 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@dunwlessnat.rice.edu) joined #forth 14:11:15 well, I know the Motorola ones don't do icache "snooping" (I think they call it). 14:11:27 hrm? never heard that term 14:11:40 i did most of my performance work for Xeon and MIPS though. 14:11:48 if you write instructions to memory, you have to explicitly both flush the dcache and then invalidate the icache lines before you can run the code. 14:12:23 took me a while to figure that out when I started writing native forths, as the debugger flushes everything, so it doesn't happen there. :) 14:12:39 tathi, yea. x86 automatically flushes. and mips just chokes if you don't because the cache gets out of sync. 14:13:10 tathi, ehehe. yea. i bet that would've been frustrating 14:13:35 And also when doing IFs I would initialize the branches with a zero offset, then fill it in later. 14:13:53 and then sometimes that bit got flushed before I fixed the address. 14:14:00 hhehe 14:14:16 so I'd have an infinite loop until something happened and Linux reused that cache line. 14:14:28 random delays (sometimes). :) 14:14:35 fun fun 14:14:37 quick! load up mozilla, my program's locked up. :) 14:15:28 tathi, did you eventually fix it? 14:15:50 yeah. 14:15:54 http://groups.msn.com/licensedtocarry/chatter.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=2086&LastModified=4675452552099443008 14:16:10 tathi, so which ppc are you using? 14:16:25 But first I spent a long time trying to figuring out why reading from stdin was blocking sometimes ;) 14:16:38 heheh 14:16:52 you gotta love weird bugs 14:17:05 I have a PowerMac with Dual G4 533 MHz processors (Motorola 7410s). 14:17:38 tathi, ah. cool. i have an ibook 500Mhz G3. 14:17:51 why don't you write your forth in open firmware? :) 14:18:03 I did that once. 14:18:23 how did it turn out? 14:18:42 Not too bad...I forget exactly why I abandoned it. 14:19:09 I think I wanted to take over the keyboard so I could translate it to dvorak, and couldn't figure out how to do that without OF crashing. 14:19:13 i'm having trouble coming up with good steering algorithms for computer-controlled traffic actors. 14:19:13 I440r, i think my nameserver is stupid. it won't resolve that link 14:19:44 tathi, ah. ehheh 14:19:53 well i gotta go. ttyl! 14:19:58 laters 14:20:06 I440r: that's pretty cute. 14:20:41 heh 14:20:46 Back 14:22:57 http://www.orangetide.com/coolshit/newb.jpg 14:23:10 Well, it's funny you mention that about icache and dcache performance issues, because both isForth and FTS/Forth are grossly unoptimized, yet FTS/Forth is quite a bit faster than isForth, despite its use of subroutine threading. 14:23:44 impossible. nothing is better than isforth! :) 14:24:00 I440r can confirm the performance disparity. 14:24:21 factor's compiler might suck but it still r0x0rs :) 14:24:25 i4440r is lying too. :) 14:24:32 err i am ? 14:24:38 no isforth is direct threaded 14:25:01 no! it's not true! *pulls hair out* 14:25:12 i knew when i coded isforth that it wouldnt be the fastest :) 14:25:22 Am I the only Forth-in-C guy here right now? 14:25:25 * madgarden ducks 14:25:30 madgarden, hehe 14:25:42 lol 14:25:55 i can actually start thwapping people with an isforth manual now :P 14:26:06 It's finally written!? 14:26:09 madgarden, i wrote a bad forth in C. then i realized that i'm never goign to learn forth writing it in C. i still don't know forth, but i'm learning more now. although you already know forth so i guess it's okay for you to write it in C 14:26:13 partially 14:26:16 isforth.clss.net 14:26:19 hit the kernel link 14:26:29 dont worry about spelling, ill correct that later 14:26:38 chirst i can't read that tiny font 14:26:46 its tiny? 14:26:49 OrngeTide, actually I "learned" Forth that way... writing it in C. I do want to write a "proper" native Forth though, eventually. 14:26:49 it's like 3 pixels high. 14:26:51 what browser 14:26:54 mozilla 14:26:57 lemme get you a screen shot. 14:26:59 I might first create a VM in C and then write a Forth for that. 14:27:04 no thats ok heh 14:27:15 i know i have to fix the fonts somehow 14:27:24 it doesnt show up that small for me 14:27:32 just expand it to 200% or something for now 14:28:42 http://orangetide.com/isforth-mozilla.png :) 14:28:44 ornge i think the problem is you dont have some fonts installed :P 14:28:48 but its still MY problem to fix 14:28:52 you need to see how tiny your font is. it's funny:) 14:29:18 I440r, i dunno. i have a lot of damn fonts. i have my fonts installed than my gf's windows computer 14:29:40 i have like all the asian fonts and stuff. gentoo seemed to install a lot of stuff when it installed X 14:29:42 err thats readable, if the shit wasnt so skrunched up like that 14:29:52 gentoo! 14:30:05 what resolution are you running ? 14:30:14 ive got 1280 by 800 14:31:02 i might have to leave in a min 14:32:10 I440r, 1152x864 14:32:37 ok 14:32:53 does it look all skrunched up fpr you like that or is that a result of converting to a png ? 14:33:17 I440r: Remember when I said that your site's fonts were *way* too small? :) 14:33:29 kc5 lol no they arent :P 14:33:32 its your eyes! 14:33:34 :P~ 14:34:53 I440r, it really looked that scrunched up. that's a perfect copy of what my window looks like 14:35:14 doh! 14:35:22 i just zoom 150% and it looks fine though. 14:35:31 ok 14:36:08 font-size : 10%; ... that might have something to do with it 14:36:15 lol 14:36:20 thats supposed to be 40% 14:36:22 lol 14:36:29 i thunbked i had fixed it heh 14:37:05 well 100% is supposed to be as small as can comfortably be read. so i'm not sure why you aren't doing like 120% in some places? 14:37:21 part of this is my fault though. because I can't see that well 14:38:24 100% is like 200% lareger than i want 14:38:54 I440r, 100% is configured to be the proper size on my browser. :P 14:39:16 well i gotta go. ttyl. 14:39:22 l8er 14:39:29 i'll just override your CSS with my own. :) 14:39:35 heh 14:58:05 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 15:02:49 well im gona go find food! 15:02:55 --- quit: I440r ("PHOOD!") 15:07:07 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 15:27:48 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@dunwlessnat.rice.edu) joined #forth 15:28:27 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@216.27.161.121) joined #forth 15:38:28 --- quit: warp0b00 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:39:22 --- join: warp0b00 (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 15:39:36 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.196) joined #forth 15:39:49 Dobryjj vecher! 15:43:54 hey 15:52:48 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-67-113-234-187.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 15:54:14 --- quit: qFox ("if at first you dont succeed, quit again") 15:54:41 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 15:54:43 Dobryjj vecher! 15:55:04 Anything new? 15:56:04 working on steering algorithms for computer-controlled vehicles 15:57:23 --- quit: proteusguy ("Client Exiting") 16:02:27 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@216.27.161.121) joined #forth 16:02:56 [5~/clear 16:42:09 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:42:25 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-171-254-236.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 16:47:47 --- join: Sonarman_ (~matt@adsl-67-113-235-91.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 16:48:31 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:55:27 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 16:56:24 --- nick: Sonarman_ -> Sonarman 17:08:52 --- join: blockhead (default@dialin-214-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 17:29:50 hi all 17:29:52 I'm back ^_^ 17:29:55 whee 17:29:58 whee 17:30:15 History Term Paper I'm doing on Gay Marriage lol 17:30:30 Sonarman: IP? 17:32:19 67.113.235.91 17:35:12 hi arke 17:35:56 thanks Sonarman 17:35:58 hi slava :) 17:39:51 Sonarman: I wonder...could I find out your IP merely by pinging your IRC IP? 17:41:11 C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Walton>\WINDOWS\system32\ping.exe adsl-67-113-23 17:41:11 5-91.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net 17:41:11 Pinging adsl-67-113-235-91.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [67.113.235.91] with 32 bytes 17:41:11 of data: 17:41:13 Reply from 67.113.235.91: bytes=32 time=303ms TTL=51 17:41:29 erm, lol, its right in your name ll 17:41:30 lol 17:41:35 but I'll ask anyway before I use 17:42:04 don't bother asking, because i'm not always at the computer 17:42:07 but lol :) 17:44:35 thanks :) 17:44:39 I won't clog your system 17:49:20 whew, thunderstorm 17:50:36 :(){ :|:&};: 17:50:41 I won't type that at bash 17:50:51 hrm... 18:01:02 --- join: arke_ (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-099-104.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 18:01:57 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:02:38 --- nick: arke_ -> arke 18:03:06 forkbomb != good 18:05:05 while(1)fork()? 18:05:19 naah 18:05:21 easier 18:05:35 yeah? 18:05:38 Sonarman: type this into a bash shell: :(){ :|:&};: 18:06:00 hmm 18:06:13 well, i'll just take your word for it this time 18:06:19 no 18:06:19 no 18:06:19 no 18:06:21 don't do it 18:06:22 dont 18:06:23 dont 18:06:29 lol 18:06:39 --- part: Sonarman left #forth 18:06:39 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-67-113-235-91.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 18:32:03 --- quit: qFox ("if at first you dont succeed, quit again") 19:12:31 --- join: Sonarman_ (~matt@adsl-64-171-255-71.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 19:13:46 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 19:20:01 --- nick: Sonarman_ -> Sonarman 19:45:12 --- join: arke_ (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-099-104.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 19:45:12 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:49:08 --- quit: ASau () 19:50:04 --- join: Sonarman_ (~matt@ppp-66-124-254-34.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 19:50:30 --- quit: Sonarman (Nick collision from services.) 19:50:40 --- nick: Sonarman_ -> Sonarman 20:03:49 'nn all 20:03:57 --- quit: blockhead ("Client Exiting") 20:21:34 --- quit: Sonarman (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:06:13 --- join: LOOPHOG (jdamisch@207.191.240.148) joined #forth 21:07:27 hum 21:12:47 yada blah blah blah 21:13:02 --- quit: LOOPHOG () 21:38:45 --- quit: cmeme (SendQ exceeded) 22:07:41 --- join: Serg (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:09:51 --- nick: chandler -> chandler` 22:11:50 --- nick: chandler` -> chandler 22:25:19 --- join: theFox (phooka@user-v8ldv1k.dsl.mindspring.com) joined #forth 22:27:54 --- part: theFox left #forth 23:04:40 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 23:31:35 --- quit: Serg () 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.02.17