00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.02.10 00:00:03 what's disinstantiate? 00:00:12 exactly what you might think 00:00:46 it disinstantiates something 00:01:49 I still have to implement my visual decompiler. 00:02:15 no. i mean do i have to go to dict.org and look up the meaning of the word myself? 00:02:15 OrngeTide: its part of what makes my language cooly polymorphic 00:02:23 i dont think its a real word 00:02:45 okay. :) 00:02:49 OrngeTide: it takes a variable and turns it into the variables type 00:03:01 or a value 00:03:27 =( 7 *disinstantiate *x) would store the type of 7 in x 00:03:34 which would probably be integer or something 00:03:35 --- join: Teratogen (leontopod@intertwingled.net) joined #forth 00:03:37 hallo! 00:03:58 Hi. 00:04:07 warpzero, sure. i see. 00:04:29 OrngeTide: well it wouldn't be "integer" but it would be the code that makes up the integer type, which you could then use to instantiate a new variable 00:04:42 warpzero, i'm not sure why you don't run scheme if you like dynamic typing and using you () keys 00:05:01 OrngeTide: templates make me sick 00:05:19 warpzero, yea. there are C++ dialects that have a typeof operator so you can make types based on constants/variables. of course that's compile-time 00:05:32 OrngeTide: this is any time 00:05:46 right. but it's roughly the same idea. so i understand what you are trying to do now. 00:05:54 yeah 00:06:13 and once you have that type out you can edit it too 00:06:25 warpzero, if you don't like the templates then just don't use them in your code. 00:06:34 warpzero, i see. 00:07:06 OrngeTide: really the way my language works is kinda lispish but not really enough to just be a dialect 00:07:15 --- quit: Serg () 00:07:16 forth has weak/no-typing. everything is implicitly typed. it's kinda frustrating at times. but the debug/test model in forth makes it a non-issue 00:07:57 OrngeTide: certainly there are lists 00:08:12 i don't even use lists in C. ehhe. 00:08:14 OrngeTide: surrounded by () 00:08:27 but comparison ends there 00:09:08 warpzero, you can do lists in forth. that , i mentioned appends things to a dictionary entry. you can actually make very normal looking declarations for lists with it. 00:09:37 without the dictionary forth is just a funny calculator. 00:09:37 oh i know 00:10:48 OrngeTide: heres an example 00:11:04 OrngeTide: =( list ) is more like a shell pipe than anything else 00:11:27 sure. 00:11:38 its not really assignment 00:13:15 also my language has &() which is an expansive list 00:15:43 you have a lot of confusing operators. 00:15:47 not really 00:15:54 they are just keyboard simbols 00:15:59 i don't like weird symbols 00:16:13 C is full of them. it kinda sucks. 00:16:18 well everything thats not a weird symbol is a string or numeric literal 00:16:45 "hello" is the same as just hello 00:17:39 warpzero, yea. there are a lot of slow scripting languages that work that way. 00:18:07 well the lexer can take care of it 00:18:24 heh. okay. 00:18:28 well i've got to go. ttyl. 00:18:40 it gets shoved into bytecode anyway 00:21:46 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 00:57:01 --- nick: proteusguy -> proteus-away 00:59:30 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1177.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 01:57:46 mmm, bytecode! 01:58:50 yeah :) 01:59:35 Teratogen: im using nibble code 02:08:29 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 02:09:04 --- quit: ASau () 02:12:58 nybble 02:14:40 Teratogen: makes it easy to read in hex dump ^_^ 02:49:48 --- quit: fridge (Remote closed the connection) 02:56:31 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1177.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 03:00:31 --- quit: skylan (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:01:55 --- join: skylan (sjh@216.211.57.188) joined #forth 04:50:09 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 05:18:22 --- join: fridge (~hovil@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 06:21:40 --- join: downix (~downix@adsl-2-34-247.bct.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 06:50:15 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 06:50:23 hello 06:56:42 hallo! 07:05:44 --- quit: Serg () 07:30:38 --- quit: proteus-away (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:40:56 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 07:41:57 Yea, and then there's that hotshot "Herkamire" guy. 07:42:59 ;) 07:45:23 --- quit: Teratogen (Connection timed out) 07:49:02 talkin' about me in front of my back again! 07:49:59 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1081.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 08:05:48 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 08:06:17 --- join: networm (~networm@L0632P21.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 08:18:56 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@65.196.135.240) joined #forth 08:39:46 --- quit: networm ("Client exiting") 08:42:33 --- join: vegemite (leontopod@intertwingled.net) joined #forth 09:03:54 Hee 09:04:04 Oh nuts, networm signed off. 09:04:21 I was going to out him infront of you all. He's working on a Forth-like. Wanted to put him on the spot. ;) 09:04:32 hehehehehehe 09:15:54 nobody knows 09:16:24 the trouble I've seen 09:16:25 --- nick: vegemite -> Teratogen 09:16:33 Herkamire: lol 09:17:09 :) 09:27:50 --- quit: Herkamire ("vacation!") 09:31:30 --- quit: madgarden (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:31:30 --- quit: cmeme (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:31:31 --- quit: OrngeTide (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:31:31 --- quit: Robert (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:31:31 --- quit: fridge (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:31:31 --- quit: warpzero (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:31:31 --- quit: ooo__ (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:32:10 --- join: fridge (~hovil@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 09:32:10 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-185a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 09:32:10 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576375.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 09:32:10 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com) joined #forth 09:32:10 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 09:32:10 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 09:32:10 --- join: ooo__ (o@virgo.bombsquad.org) joined #forth 09:33:59 --- quit: madgarden (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:34:00 --- quit: OrngeTide (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:34:00 --- quit: cmeme (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:34:00 --- quit: Robert (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:34:01 --- quit: ooo__ (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:34:01 --- quit: fridge (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:34:01 --- quit: warpzero (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:34:52 --- join: fridge (~hovil@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 09:34:52 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-185a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 09:34:52 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576375.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 09:34:52 --- join: cmeme (~cmeme@216.184.11.30.unused.swcp.com) joined #forth 09:34:52 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 09:34:52 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 09:34:52 --- join: ooo__ (o@virgo.bombsquad.org) joined #forth 09:35:31 burp! 09:35:37 irc indigestion! 09:37:37 we're giving dmwaters shit about it 09:38:03 so forgiving 09:38:29 :) 09:38:49 yes how dare they not provide error-free 100% uptime on this free service! :P 09:39:52 yeah 09:40:00 MY network doesn't have netsplits 09:40:03 i mean really 10:21:41 --- join: crc (~crc@33-pool1.ras11.nynyc-t.alerondial.net) joined #forth 11:00:26 Hi 11:00:27 --- quit: crc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:00:31 Bye 11:24:17 hi everybody 11:25:34 hello 11:25:40 howdy 11:28:09 hi slava 11:28:33 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@dunwlessnat.rice.edu) joined #forth 11:28:43 peeps 11:29:18 Hi 11:37:31 greetings 11:37:36 salutationes 11:42:57 * warpzero is away: Bubble bobble lol. 11:56:50 --- quit: downix ("Leaving") 12:02:46 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:23:32 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 12:54:59 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@65.196.135.240) joined #forth 12:56:53 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.196) joined #forth 12:57:02 Dobryjj vecher! 12:57:53 hi ASau 12:58:29 Privet, Slava! 12:59:10 hellos 13:01:46 --- quit: fridge ("Leaving") 13:05:52 --- join: haqqer (wossname@HSE-Sherbrooke-ppp79860.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:06:11 Dobryjj vecher, haqqer! 13:07:04 hello :) 13:07:12 How would you convert counted string to zero-terminated one? 13:07:32 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 13:07:35 I need it to call OS API. 13:07:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 13:07:39 *(strp + strc) = 0; 13:07:42 Dobryjj vecher, kc5tja! 13:07:56 Howdy 13:08:01 And how do you call this? 13:08:24 i don't know the specifics of your problem 13:08:36 kc5tja, and how do you call counted to zero-terminated string conversion? 13:08:45 pascal -> c string 13:09:42 Null-termination. 13:09:54 We don't have a specific word for it. 13:11:11 How do you call Linux or BSD functions? 13:11:37 They require zero-term. strings. 13:13:34 --- join: mkennedy` (~user@cs24317-114.austin.rr.com) joined #forth 13:14:04 Dobryjj vecher, mkennedy`! 13:14:14 Hi all :) 13:14:20 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote closed the connection) 13:14:23 Privet, Robert! 13:14:50 Privet! 13:16:51 I was thinking earlier that there oughta be a forth word called OUGHTA 13:17:42 What should it do? 13:18:07 Sit there and look nice. 13:18:18 Well, it oughta do something. 13:18:38 i think i know how to compile conditional statements if the is no code after the end of the if... 13:18:40 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@65.196.135.240) joined #forth 13:19:00 Dobryjj vecher, proteusguy! 13:19:17 slava: why does that matter? JVM restriction? 13:19:37 vech the heck does dat mean? ;) 13:20:20 madgarden, no, just the design of my compiler 13:20:41 madgarden, stack words just rename local variables at compile time, so if there is code after the 'if', the two branches need to make the same local variable renaming 13:20:42 slava: so you can't have any code after THEN? 13:21:15 madgarden, it will work once i figure out a way to 'align' the two stack permutations of the two branches... so one branch will have a little bit of local reshuffling code at the end in the compiled output 13:22:59 slava, but you can't balance branches in Forth-like language. 13:23:02 well it's still a mystery, but thanks for the explanation. ;) 13:23:23 slava, you can live with unbalanced stack. 13:23:29 ASau, i know 13:23:43 ASau, any code where the stack effect is unknown, if the branches unbalanced, will be interpreted and not compiled 13:25:22 slava, why? You can flush registers and go on, you have to reload after unbalanced expressions, that's all. 13:26:05 ASau, i'll figure something out. 13:26:35 slava, of course you lose some time 13:29:57 ASau, when the compiler is done i hope to achieve performance that's at least competitive with gforth 13:30:28 i have the advantage that everything is native code (when the JVM is done JITting), but the disadvantage that all numbers are boxed 13:31:48 Hm. Maybe you should look at DSSSP. 13:31:55 what is DSSSP? unboxing algorithm? 13:32:19 Consinder strong types. 13:32:28 yes... 13:32:44 the main obstacle to unboxing is that for example + might push an integer, or a bignum. 13:32:47 DSSSP is Forth-like system with strong typing. 13:33:03 or integer integer / might push an integer or a ratio object 13:33:20 in java you cannot write a generic method that takes a primitive or an object 13:33:31 and you cannot compile bytecode that stores either an object or a primitive in a local, you have to know ahead of time 13:33:43 but i'll look at DSSSP, thanks 13:34:14 google doesn't know anything about it 13:35:14 --- join: chandler_ (chandler@64-145-60-36.client.dsl.net) joined #forth 13:35:28 hey chandler_ 13:35:36 --- quit: chandler (Connection reset by peer) 13:35:47 There're three ways as usual: a) the most generic numbers; b) casting type of result; c) the third way (reserved). 13:35:49 i'm looking at strongforth now 13:36:05 --- nick: chandler_ -> chandler 13:36:24 Maybe I'm mistaken in number of "S"-s. 13:36:44 i see strongforth uses ( ... ) comments as declarations 13:37:02 this was my idea, but make it optional so ( ... ) is just a comment but declarations are { ... } (i don't have locals so {} is ok) 13:37:37 Take a look at RuFIG. There should be information. 13:38:25 ok 13:38:38 Or contact them. The author should be around. 14:10:05 i really want a forth OS for my sparc classic. 14:10:10 open firmware doesn't cut it. 14:10:26 now i wonder if i could write a forth OS *in* open firmware. 14:12:34 --- quit: Teratogen (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:32:52 --- quit: mkennedy` ("ERC Version 4.0 $Revision: 1.613 $ (IRC client for Emacs)") 15:16:05 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1177.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 15:34:20 --- quit: proteusguy ("Leaving") 15:46:07 Does anyone know how does DOS emulation in W2K work? 15:47:25 It deviates a lot even in executing shell. 15:47:32 Maybe links? 15:47:53 --- join: arke (~Chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-099-104.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 15:48:03 kc5tja: hey 15:48:08 kc5tja: is the original dolphin code stil around? 15:53:16 --- quit: haqqer ("pizza") 15:57:56 re arke 15:58:00 No. Not anymore. 15:58:20 It's been close to 15 years since the original Dolphin code came into existance. 15:58:27 Damn. 15:58:36 I just had an idea for an OS. 15:58:50 Which, actually, could be implemented using an existing *nix 15:59:10 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-160-165-155.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 15:59:23 but it'd be an ugly hack then and probably not the way i want it, although I think thats the way I'll have to do it. 15:59:24 hi matt 15:59:33 hello 15:59:49 kc5tja: what pisses me off about current OSes is that it takes 10 seconds to 5 minutes to boot. 16:00:15 (as in, to fully initialize to the point where the first user interaction can be made, this is usually login) 16:01:20 the way I want this to work is as soon as the kernel is done, it starts up transluXent with kdm or gdm or whatever for login. 16:01:38 init, although neat, is dumped for something that does things a little better. 16:02:12 I think with a dedicated OS it could be realized faster, as in that case, the OS doesn't need to fully initialize to start the graphics subsystem 16:03:28 In fact, I want it to immediately when starting to boot to switch into 1024x768x16 mode, display a mouse cursor, load the things necessary for logon, then add a little tab at the bottom you can click to see the initialization process which is continued at that point. 16:04:10 I was just thinking Dolphin would be a great way to start, since this needs massive multitasking and you gave some pretty amazing benchmarks on it :) 16:06:44 you got a dolphin webpage, kc5tja? dolphin.sf.net doesn't exist (anymore?) 16:07:21 do you enjoy talking to yourself? 16:11:55 Yes :) 16:12:56 I'm considering making a DOS demo ... since the ntvdm allows me to enter pmode, I can do the real thing, and reuse code. 16:24:05 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 16:27:16 --- join: mkennedy (~user@cs24317-114.austin.rr.com) joined #forth 16:27:34 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@216.27.161.121) joined #forth 16:28:06 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:28:25 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@216.27.161.121) joined #forth 16:54:29 * warpzero is back (gone 05:11:31) 17:01:56 arke, you there? 17:06:09 arke, i like demos that fit in a 512byte bootsector. 17:06:27 the problem with DOS is that it's hard to initialize modern soundcards and videocards. 17:06:29 OrngeTide: VESA GUI in 512 bytes!? 17:06:34 slava: yeah 17:06:38 OrngeTide: VBE :) 17:06:50 slava: anything new in your java forth? 17:06:59 arke, yea. if you just want a framebuffer. and maybe if you're lucky, hardware blitter 17:07:37 arke, the OS should load in a few seconds and be fully loaded, without having to load anything in the background. 17:07:39 i've seen 1k raycasting demos. 17:07:47 arke, yes, compiler work 17:08:17 i could write a gui in 16k... 17:08:26 a real one too. not just something that looks gui 17:08:40 what's the diff between real gui and looks gui? 17:09:11 slava: well, my idea is that it does load stuff in the background if it really needs to. 17:09:11 slava, well i'd have mouse support and drag-and-drop 17:09:31 slava: as long as you can log on within a few seconds :) 17:09:35 versus some of those dos shells that are just graphical buttons and nothing else. 17:09:44 OrngeTide: yeah :) 17:09:47 * OrngeTide is a big fan of the MacOS System 7 interface. 17:09:52 arke, just don't base it on linux 17:09:55 OrngeTide, yes! 17:09:58 slava: fbsd? :) 17:10:01 base it on netbsd. :) 17:10:14 slava: if i do linux, then it wouldn't even remotely be linuxy 17:10:16 OrngeTide, system 7 boots so fast even running in an 68k emulator! (Basilisk) 17:10:20 slava: no init, etc. 17:10:23 arke, don't make it *nix like if you want bast boot 17:10:27 s/bast/fast/ 17:10:30 slava: true. 17:10:34 slava, if you don't have to load any extensions. although it doesn't boot as fast as my palm pilot 17:10:41 slava: dynamic loading is the way to go :) 17:11:11 if everyone in #forth chipped in, we could write a very good OS. but it won't happen :) 17:11:30 I think it should.. 17:11:33 well soon more motherboards will provide instant-on functionality like laptops. because newer rams have low power modes where it can hold the contents of ram and shut the cpu off completely 17:11:39 based on the concept of dynamic loading :) 17:11:52 slava, the problem is everyone in #forth has wildly different views of what makes a good system 17:11:57 exactly 17:12:03 thats what hibernate is for, which linux doesnt hae yet 17:12:05 OrngeTide: yeah\ 17:12:10 arke, linux 2.6 has it. 17:12:12 works great:) 17:12:16 suspend to disk too 17:12:17 sweet 17:12:20 system 7 was fast because it had a single address space, OS calls were just subroutine calls... 17:12:43 no separate graphics server 17:13:22 slava, well context switch in freebsd and linux on i386 is pretty fast too. versus other *nixes. there are some short cuts can you do. (which is why there is a 3G/1G address space split) 17:14:01 Well, I'm gonna have to consult kc5tja a little on task switching :) 17:14:10 slava, i like having the graphics stuff as a seperate process. because when it fucks up you can just restart it. (PC hardware is pretty flakey) 17:14:41 Well, the OS is based on graphics mode.. (mine that is) 17:14:57 which is why I'm gonna attempt to make graphics the super stable 17:15:00 clipping and all 17:15:03 i'm using a sparc classic for a monitor stand. it really needs a fun OS for it. hrm.. it's got netbsd, but that's not really fun enough. 17:15:06 what does the OS *need* to initialize in boot? 17:15:14 interrupts, disks, framebuffer, keyboard, mouse 17:15:15 plus sparc classic is slow. 50Mhz with no real data cache 17:15:27 OrngeTide: well, its got openbios, so just make one with that :P 17:15:30 then start some kind of shell 17:15:31 that's it 17:15:37 slava, initializing is really fast. scanning the PCI device tree takes time. 17:15:54 arke, yea. i've been thinking of if I could just write something in open firmware. 17:16:10 you probably can, i think it lets you write shite to disk 17:16:14 and testing ram too. (i count what the bios does as part of the boot time) 17:16:38 PC bBIOSes are ridiculously slow 17:16:39 arke, yea. i just need to 1. learn sparc asm. 2. write a sparc assembler in open firmware 3. write a forth in open firmware. 17:16:42 ehhe 17:17:00 arke, yea. sparc and macintosh have really huge bioses but they come up right away. 17:17:07 both also support serial console too. 17:17:18 x86 needs to get with the 1980s. 17:17:39 x86 needs to die. 17:17:48 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@forthfreak.net) joined #forth 17:17:52 VAX > x86 17:17:52 hi Speuler 17:17:59 hi all 17:18:07 arke too :) 17:18:09 (insert any risc or stack proc here) > CISC 17:18:11 i kinda like mips and arm. but mostly because there are like a dozen different vendors for them. 17:18:22 arke, i dunno. i don't like F21. 17:18:24 arke: tta plz 17:18:25 Apple's OpenFirmware needs to die 17:18:29 well the freebsd kernel only takes a few seconds to boot and initialize devices 17:18:31 warpzero: tta? 17:18:34 all the delay is in /etc/rc 17:18:36 chandler, what is wrong with it? 17:18:39 this is what an OS needs to eliminate 17:18:43 slava: init basically, right? :) 17:18:44 arke: transport triggered archetecture 17:18:49 gentoo linux is pretty fast to boot. redhat takes years 17:18:51 OrngeTide: crappy console is mostly what bothers me 17:18:52 warpzero: ? 17:18:53 arke: aka one instruction set chip 17:18:56 also, i say an OS should not have kernel support for ttys and consoles. 17:19:00 a command line is a good thing 17:19:02 warpzero: ?????? WTF? 17:19:07 just compared to Sun's Open Firmware 17:19:07 but why bloat the kernel with all this tty crap 17:19:08 arke: it just has one instruction 17:19:09 chandler, you mean that ugly 11x22 or whatever font? 17:19:15 warpzero: uum.....wtf!? 17:19:23 OrngeTide: and it's INCREDIBLY slow. and I thought Sun's was slow. 17:19:25 chandler, you should be happy it has open firmware at all. 17:19:44 --- join: blockhead (default@dialin-681-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 17:19:48 hi blockhead 17:19:51 yeah yeah, count your blessings 17:19:56 but I'd prefer one like Sun's 17:19:59 chandler, yea it's just memcpying the whole page rather than punching a vga register to scroll. 17:20:04 yo, 'sup :D 17:20:22 chandler, OF is much better with the serial port anyways 17:20:34 serial? what serial? :-) 17:20:44 what's bad is the weird keys you have to press on a mac to do anything 17:20:46 it'd be nice to NMI into OF too on the mac 17:20:52 like stop-a 17:20:54 yea. totally 17:21:20 it still kicks PC bios's butt around the block though 17:21:29 of course 17:22:01 but a reel-to-reel ibm mainframe kicks PC bios's butt. ahah 17:22:32 honestly I can't think of anything worse than pc bios. well except for IBM PS/2 bios. where you needed a special floppy to boot into the bios to fix it 17:22:49 how about a Compaq BIOS, where part of it was on a special partition on the HD? 17:22:58 yea. ehhe 17:23:15 well Macs used to have a special partition full of drivers. 17:23:26 disk drivers, and you could boot from another disk to update those 17:24:23 but with windows the way it is, having to reboot your computer all the time. think of what you could accomplish by making systems spend less time in bios and going straight into the OS again. 17:25:19 think what it would be like if Windows booted faster too 17:25:42 well i'm trying to be realistic here. :) 17:26:07 can't say I minded the bootup time when I was running BeOS :-) 17:29:12 are there any fun forth OSes for i386 or powerpc? 17:29:32 i386: color forth? 17:29:37 i'm wondering if i could rewrite my tcp/ip stack in forth for it. might be fun. 17:29:51 blockhead, as if color forth booted up on any computer but chucks. :( 17:30:05 OrngeTide: there are stand-alone 386 implementations 17:30:16 Oh. Maybe I shoudln't ahve said anything, as I actually havvn't tried it 17:30:31 OrngeTide: though i don't know rite now how much of them have hit the public/the net 17:30:35 blockhead, i haven't tried it either. i couldn't get it to work on either of my machines. 17:30:44 Speuler, hrm? 17:30:50 OrngeTide: i know that there are because i've done one myself 17:31:02 OrngeTide: but not PD/freeware. for a company 17:31:07 ah 17:31:18 i should break down and write my own forth. 17:31:22 OrngeTide: wasn't colorforth though 17:31:24 OrngeTide: do it 17:31:34 I'm in the middle of writing mine and it is fun 17:31:46 i'll do it for i386 because i know that architecture best. although i'd really like something for my mac or sparc 17:31:48 also very difficult, but still fun 17:32:06 OrngeTide: if you got a BIOS, it is much easier 17:32:24 of course i could put a ps/2 keyboard on my gameboy advance and just write it for arm thumb. I have a 256Mbit flash cart for gba coming in the mail soon. :) 17:32:28 OrngeTide: saves you from writing code to initialize northbridge/dram/pci/devices 17:32:47 OrngeTide: which is not trivial if you haven't done that before 17:33:23 Speuler, yea. modern bios lets you do protected mode calls (bios32) which is something i will definently use. AtheOS uses that and it's really helps for it's compatibility. of course you can always replace parts of it with direct hardware I/O when you happen to support that hardware. 17:33:40 OrngeTide: the one i've written was on a bios-less machine ... 17:33:46 Speuler, yea. i've actually done it before. had to help port phoenix bios to a new chipset. 17:33:59 because incompatible with anything else 17:34:01 and i've done BSPs for powerpc and mips based embedded systems. 17:34:04 custom devices and the like 17:34:13 but that was all C and tiny bits of asm 17:34:30 OrngeTide: then that part should impose a big problem to you 17:34:40 i'm not very good at forth yet. i'm finishing up a small card game written in bigforth. i'm feeling pretty confident now 17:34:44 it could be a show-stopper if you're new to that 17:35:00 Speuler, what part? 17:35:13 OrngeTide: s/should/should not/ 17:35:29 oh. hehe:) 17:35:47 forgot the 0= 17:36:12 but i'll just use icky PC bios for now. 17:36:28 eforth/386 could do 17:37:06 http://www.forthfreak.net/wiki/index.cgi?eForthOS 17:37:37 http://www.forthfreak.net/wiki/index.cgi?EnthFlux 17:37:50 oh well, search yourself ... 17:37:53 http://www.forthfreak.net/wiki/index.cgi?StandAloneForth 17:39:07 yea. i gotta try enth. the docs suck. i've got a really nice pdf for eForth though. mmm 17:39:43 yeah, what a horrible idea, using a well documented forth 17:40:08 Speuler: nice link. thanks for putting that 17:40:12 oh i believe strongly in docs. 17:40:42 you didn't know about that site ? 17:40:57 shame on you 17:41:15 --- join: reiffert (reiffert@student.physik.uni-mainz.de) joined #forth 17:41:19 --- join: killaweb (~giddet@pD9E641AF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 17:41:22 you should be able to read source code. but the docs should also be readable as well. then you can compare the two and have a clearer picture of what's going on. (and if they don't match than the docs or the code could be wrong) 17:41:24 ui 17:41:27 hi 17:41:30 so tach auch mal 17:41:35 hi reiffert :) 17:41:40 hey speuler 17:41:40 hi killaweb too :) 17:41:42 hi ihr beiden 17:41:54 killaweb: guten tag. 17:42:07 arke guten abend oder besser gute nacht 17:42:15 zu der späten stunden 17:42:22 ich wurde hier her verwiesen 17:42:23 also 17:42:27 nun weiter 17:42:35 killaweb: naja, noch nicht nacht, nur frueher abend ... 17:42 17:42:40 was macht forth für mich so besondes 17:42:44 english spoken here ... 17:42:55 ups sorry 17:42:55 ich bein ein outlander 17:43:00 :) 17:43:07 that's all i know (it's lyrics to a song) 17:43:09 lol 17:43:10 why 17.42 17:43:14 *I* am a jelly doughnut! 17:43:15 where are you? 17:43:30 killaweb: es ist sehr klein (oder zumindest _normalerweise_ klein). 17:43:42 17.44 here.. i'm two minutes faster 17:43:44 killaweb: und auf meisten prozessoren auch sehr schnell 17:43:46 ah 17:43:56 proteusguy: wasn't bush senior's vize saying that ? 17:44:03 killaweb: und es ist auch sehr einfach, nur etwas "anders" 17:44:04 und wie is das mit dem vergleich forth und c 17:44:06 OrngeTide somehow broke the light barrier! 17:44:13 the potatoE-guy :) 17:44:17 reiffert, my part of the earth spins faster than yours 17:44:20 killaweb: naja, sie sind konzeptuell sehr anders. 17:44:47 killaweb: C ist variablen orientiert 17:44:54 Speuler: You've confused Quayle with John F. Kennedy! 17:44:58 i know about 1 out of 20 common german words. so i can almost make sense of that. 17:45:05 OrngeTide: if you look for the definition of "spinning", your sentence is wrong :-) 17:45:14 proteusguy: kennedy said "berliner" in berlin 17:45:18 reiffert, it was not meant to be a logical statement. 17:45:28 killaweb: Forth ist stapel orientiert 17:45:31 but quayle said "jelly donut" in honolulu it was i beleive 17:45:32 lieve 17:45:40 killaweb: d.h., rueckwarts polische notation 17:45:45 Speuler: Wasn't that the name of a danish? 17:45:48