00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.01.23 00:34:19 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1029.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 00:43:45 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD9548BE2.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 00:45:13 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 00:45:38 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1029.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 00:59:18 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 01:43:45 I am going to write an rpn calculator in forth 01:43:51 it's my first forth program in a long time! 02:03:38 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 02:23:35 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-9d5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 02:40:27 --- join: snowrichard (~richard@adsl-068-209-159-248.sip.shv.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 02:43:18 --- quit: snowrichard (Client Quit) 04:10:46 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1029.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 05:19:04 --- quit: Nutssh ("Client exiting") 05:37:32 --- quit: I440r ("going to work") 06:12:47 --- join: mmanning (~mmanning@saturn.vcsd.com) joined #forth 06:15:16 HI 06:15:26 Er, hi 06:33:04 :P 06:35:20 Yawn.. 06:35:30 Sitting here messing with MSVC++ 06:35:33 And no Forth 07:20:09 --- join: aktnot (ident@233.80-202-65.nextgentel.com) joined #forth 07:20:09 --- quit: aktnot (Client Quit) 07:44:38 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@65.196.135.240) joined #forth 08:23:58 Hi 08:32:12 Howdy. No RPN lingo today? 08:35:56 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 08:36:26 hi ! 08:37:19 Hi 08:37:19 proteusguy: No :) 09:09:25 --- quit: Serg () 09:39:20 --- quit: Robert (Remote closed the connection) 09:46:21 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-185a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 09:51:24 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@c-185a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 09:53:15 --- quit: Robert (Nick collision from services.) 09:53:21 --- nick: Robert_ -> Robert 10:12:41 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 10:25:32 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.196) joined #forth 10:25:40 Dobryjj vecher! 10:27:57 Privet :) 10:28:55 Privet, Robert! 11:04:50 --- quit: warpzero () 11:05:33 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 11:07:10 --- quit: proteusguy ("Leaving") 11:15:28 --- join: downix (~downix@adsl-219-34-197.mia.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 11:34:12 --- join: crypton (trilluser@bc-van-reg-a53-01-68.look.ca) joined #forth 11:46:53 hi crypton 11:47:02 you new in here or just a new nick ? 11:47:13 u a forth coder or "interested" ? 11:48:26 i used to be here a long time ago under various other nicks (hp48nik and so on) 11:48:41 oh yea i remember you :) 11:48:55 used Forth ROM cartridge with my Commodore 64 in the early eighties ;-) 11:49:06 i always got you confused with h.p.recktenwald of lib4th fame heh 11:49:18 by tom zimmer!!! :) 11:49:28 hehe 11:49:54 do you have a personal website? 11:50:56 only isforth.clss.net 11:51:05 which is in dire need of some serious content hehe 11:54:35 have you ever played with Forth on Macs using built-in OpenFirmware? 11:54:39 * Robert hides. 11:56:40 not me but robert has :) 11:56:54 i don't have a Mac but it's fun to play with in computer stores 11:56:57 and ROBERT is supposed to be working on my web page 11:56:58 grrrr 11:57:42 hey there's a DMOZ category for OpenFirmware:- 11:57:44 http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Operating_Systems/BIOS/Open_Firmware/ 11:59:43 Robert are you a mac user? 11:59:47 No 11:59:49 lol no 12:00:02 i was messin with him cuz he is avoiding doing my web page 12:00:05 bastid 12:00:10 hehe 12:00:16 I've got enough trouble with my own ;) 12:00:26 yours isnt important :P 12:00:30 }:) 12:00:41 what is your URL, R? 12:00:49 http://robert.zizi.org/ 12:00:55 thx 12:15:10 lunch....BBL... bye all 12:15:12 --- part: crypton left #forth 12:57:42 I've played with OpenFirmware 12:57:59 not much though because I really suck at QWERTY 12:58:20 I need to learn OF programming 12:58:30 I have an OF machine and I want some drivers for some of my carts 12:59:07 you want to use your devices? or you want to make the devices compatible with OF? 13:01:07 downix: are you making an operating system? 13:01:15 downix: what architecture are you working with? 13:02:06 how many people here still program forth in "screens-full" ? 13:02:15 or do you just use a regular text editor? 13:02:27 --- quit: warpzero () 13:03:10 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 13:03:42 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp82016.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:04:36 No, I am making hardware 13:04:46 need to make OF drivers for it 13:07:54 ok 13:09:04 Teratogen: I'm working on the last few features I need to add to my forth editor before I use it instead of vim 13:09:32 kc5tja wrote VIBE which is a block editor written for gforth 13:09:52 I don't know if he uses it though. 13:10:12 I'd love it if someone had some OF drivers I could study 13:10:50 --- quit: warpzero () 13:11:01 downix: that would be nice. I wonder if you can download the fcode off devices you have 13:11:13 don't know 13:11:21 I doubt it tho 13:11:29 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 13:11:40 I'm going to make an OS for PPC relatively soon, and I wish I could find a working example to study 13:11:58 something simple. not like linux 13:12:36 http://www.aros.org perhaps? It runs on Linux 13:12:44 erm, on PowerPC 13:14:00 a friend of mine wanted to write an entire operating system in APL 13:14:05 this was years ago. 13:14:08 egads 13:14:10 wonder if he ever got around to doing it 13:14:21 My interest isn't in OS's, it is in hardware 13:17:06 --- quit: warpzero () 13:17:26 Herkamire: check out NewOS. He has at something going on PPC. 13:17:28 OS's are facinating, but there are too many projects for it nowadays 13:17:38 true, I forgot about NewOS 13:17:46 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 13:17:47 (which is ironic as I have it on this machine) 13:17:54 heh 13:18:20 --- quit: warpzero (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:20:46 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 13:28:23 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-66-124-255-243.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 13:48:52 --- quit: warpzero () 13:52:01 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 13:52:29 http://www.allmax.com/MILT/ 13:54:00 downix: I don't see a PPC port of aros 13:54:20 someone was working on one once 13:54:24 dunno how far they got 13:54:27 TreyB: NewOS looks promising. last I checked the PPC version wasn't working. I'll definately check back in with NewOS 13:54:36 there's also Darwin 13:55:32 I'd rather something simple. 13:55:42 there are several unix like systems for ppc 13:56:22 *nods* 13:56:42 I know of OS's, but they're not open-source 13:56:58 i remember reading how a PPC port of aros was in progress 13:58:51 well, ask them, they're over on #aros 14:01:43 --- join: topaz8 (~topaz@node-d-9180.a2000.nl) joined #forth 14:01:53 hi 14:02:08 hi topaz8 :) 14:02:09 Hoi 14:13:26 --- quit: topaz8 ("Leaving") 14:16:25 hmmm hope topaz comes back, he is a beginner at forth but his englis isnt very good heh 14:16:38 but thats no reason to leave 15:05:30 --- join: randolm (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp80848.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 15:20:05 --- quit: wossname (Connection timed out) 15:20:21 --- nick: randolm -> wossname 15:40:55 --- join: Nutssh (~Foo@gh-1029.gh.rice.edu) joined #forth 15:58:31 --- join: dubious (~marc@209.71.234.197) joined #forth 16:18:17 --- join: I440r (~mark4@12-160.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth 16:25:06 --- quit: wossname ("%#@%") 16:28:45 --- quit: I440r ("brb") 16:44:25 --- join: blockhead (default@dialin-876-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 17:00:46 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 17:00:49 hi 17:04:09 yo 17:07:22 i'm going to write a stack-effect checker for my interpreter, and once this is done, the compiler can advance further. 17:08:23 you wrote you own forth? cool! 17:08:44 Most people have. 17:09:11 That's the nice thing about Forth - it's very easy to implement. 17:09:13 :D 17:09:36 I was never able to. :( CLosest I got was a False interpreter 17:09:49 You'll be able to. 17:10:05 I did it years ago, after only a few months of idling in #forth. 17:10:38 * blockhead idles in #forth then :D :D 17:11:00 Great start! 17:11:25 * blockhead thanks Robert for his encouragement and congradulates slava on his success. 17:11:42 its not really a forth. 17:11:49 it's 17:11:50 the philosophy is different, its not so low-level. 17:11:57 hi ayrnieu :) 17:12:03 howdy =) 17:12:20 Grammarmaster hello at you to how is thing go now? 17:12:34 ayrnieu, once the stack-effect checker is done, code with a constant stack-effect can be compiled in such a way that stack words do not result in any code being generated at all. 17:13:05 ayrnieu, well, except at the beginning and the end of the compiled word. 17:13:28 slava - nifty =) Does Factor not allow such as FOO @ EXECUTE then? 17:13:47 ayrnieu, is this calling the value of 'FOO' dynamically? this is allowed 17:13:52 ayrnieu, code that does this is not compiled 17:14:04 ayrnieu, however passing literal quotations to combinator words will eventually be compiled 17:14:06 the XT stored at FOO -- OK. 17:14:30 (in Factor you achieve the same effect with [ foo ] call) 17:14:38 I was thinking about writing something like that, too. 17:15:06 Forth without all the time spent on dealing with the stack would be great. 17:15:28 uh 17:15:29 Robert - compiled forth, you mean. 17:15:31 well in a real forth a 'dup' is only like 8 machine instructions 17:15:50 since factor is written in java and stores code in linked lists, you *need* a compiler for good performance 17:15:52 slava - er, or just two instructions =) 17:16:21 --- join: Mark4 (~Mark4@12-160.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth 17:16:33 ayrnieu: Yes, optimized to use the x86 registers instead of a memory stack. 17:17:04 Robert - I had a m68k forth in mind when I said that, but OK. 17:17:30 ayrnieu: And what would make that Forth different? 17:17:32 x86 has registers? 8) 17:18:08 Robert - that it used a memory stack, with TOS in a register. 17:18:11 downix: Hehe. :) 17:19:28 ayrnieu: Oh. But with more stack items cached in registers, you could optimize words like "+" to only one instruction, and "swap", "drop" etc. to no instruction at all. 17:20:21 downix: I was doing some work on the PIC architecture the other day, and I must say x86 with its eight registers is way better than that one-register piece of shit... 17:20:26 Robert - yes, you can optimize 'swap' and 'drop' to no instruction at all with a stack-attentive compiler. 17:20:52 heh 17:20:57 Right, and that's what I thought about actually implementing. But as usual, I'm a lazy bum. 17:21:07 true 17:21:21 but x86 still sucks compared to the 68000 17:21:22 8) 17:21:40 I never used it, so I can't tell. :( 17:22:03 it has the good things about x86, 6502 and RISC architectures without the BS 17:22:40 has some issues, namely the parent company is a moron.... 17:23:26 Hehe. 17:23:47 (as shown by how they handled PowerPC, killing their own market off) 17:25:02 The G4 was the biggest mistake they could have made 17:25:26 I don't know anything about that, honestly. 17:25:27 why do you say that? the 68k simply didn't scale 17:25:41 the 68k scaled as well as x86 did 17:25:53 until 1993, yes it did 17:25:58 if Mot applied the same techniques to it as Intel did, it could have continued to scale 17:26:01 until 1993? 17:26:09 the latest 68k came out in '97 17:26:14 at what clockspeed? 17:26:17 that's what I'm saying 17:26:23 200Mhz IIRC 17:26:43 they call it Coldfire now, but still the same architecture 17:26:49 the major advances in x86 design happened because the core was redesigned around micro-ops and a bunch of rename registers added 17:26:55 Indeed 17:27:01 ISTR that Coldfire requires software emualtion to run full 68k code 17:27:17 Correct, but that is a concious design decision 17:27:29 the 68060 runs a Coldfire core with hardware emulation 17:27:45 (properly, the coldfire was the 060 w/o the emulation) 17:28:50 I know at least one developer that put those micro-ops into firmware, in a similar manner as Transmeta, and got a near perfect 68k replacement out of it. 17:29:21 that's pretty cool 17:29:31 perhaps it's all Mordorola's incompetence, I don't know 17:29:51 Motorola is not incompetent, it is more a case of management issues 17:29:52 but I wonder how easy it is to do that to 68k as opposed to a totally braindead architecture like x86 17:30:03 Quite easy, actually 17:30:16 of course not. I used to work there (not in anything processor related); my father worked there for 14 years. I know what their corporate culture is like 17:30:17 A friend of mine designed a 68000 that runs at 1Ghz 17:30:50 wow, do you have any links or information about this? 17:31:01 (an original-model 68000, he has one running at 100Mhz, but talking to him it could scale to 1Ghz if need be 17:31:10 http://www.vlsi-concepts.com IIRC is his website 17:32:27 http://vlsi-concepts.com/V68000.html 17:32:30 scaling is easier said than done :-) 17:32:32 there it is 17:32:35 quite true 17:32:44 that's cool 17:32:47 but even getting a 68000, original 68k, running at 100Mhz... 17:32:54 imagine the same approach taken with the 68060 17:33:11 --- part: Nutssh left #forth 17:33:22 with a pipeline, et al 17:33:25 it would be cool 17:33:47 the 68k had a pipeline as/is 17:33:48 above did you meant that PPC as a whole was a mistake or just the G4? 17:33:52 just not a well implimented one 17:34:01 The G4 as it was handled was a mistake 17:34:15 if Mot had stuck to its guns with the new FSB design, it would have ruled 17:34:27 agreed, but the apollo G4 (7450) is really an exceptionally elegant design 17:34:27 instead, it was sucking memory bandwidth through a straw 17:35:38 Imagine the 7450 with a 128-bit DDR FSB instead of the 64-bit SDR FSB it is stuck with 17:35:50 imagine competent management at mordorola 17:36:09 sure, immediate gain wouldn't have been there, but it could have scaled up, unlike the existing 7450 17:36:22 still MaxBus was very well tuned - it works great on my 667 mhz laptop, but I wouldn't want it on a 1.4GHz :-) 17:36:31 now the 7457/7447's are choked, any performance potential killed by that braindead FSB 17:36:46 that's OK, Mot's heading for irrelevancy in that market 17:36:56 IBM has the 970 cranking out at 90nm 17:37:17 The 970, by itself, is not that impressive a design. But its FSB is large enough that you can finally realize the potential of the design. 17:37:35 the 970 didn't need to be an impressive design 17:37:40 exactly 17:37:47 free up the bottlenecks and the design sells itself 17:38:05 it was what it was billed as - GPUL, the guts of the POWER4 pipeline cut out and dropped into a smaller-die part 17:38:56 oh the 970 still has bottlenecks :-) they're just P4-like "oops, this code causes a nasty pipeline stall" kind 17:39:48 and if you don't do software-directed prefetch and your access pattern fails to trigger it automatically you may find some suck waiting for you too 17:41:09 --- quit: qFox ("if at first you dont succeed, quit again") 17:41:57 or rather waiting for some suck, I guess 17:42:41 right 17:42:57 but that's pretty minor in the grand scheme of things 17:43:00 but the 970s design makes those "oops" much less costly 17:43:07 yes 17:43:20 hence, overall, a killer design 17:43:37 but the biggest attribute is that even when you only see the same clock/clock performance as a G4, you can't get a G4 anywhere near that clock 17:43:39 I can't wait till the Peg3 arrives, non-Apple 970 desktop 17:44:01 *nods* 17:44:13 heh, my experience with third-party ppc boards is that they are much more expensive and less featureful than the Apple equivalent 17:44:19 the thing is, the 970 per-clock is 4x as fast due to the improved FSB 17:44:26 http://www.pegasosppc.com 17:44:53 not quite at Apple levels, but better than the rest out there 17:45:27 yes, I've heard of them 17:45:30 I'd love to try MorphOS 17:45:36 I work for them 17:45:53 oh oh, heh. your interest is not exactly independent :-) 17:46:01 heh 17:46:15 I try and be forward with that so people understand my viewpoint 17:46:22 but the real reason I run PPC is for OS X... I do have work to get done on a daily basis :-) 17:46:31 * downix runs OS X on his Peg 17:46:33 so a pegasos board would just be another "nifty toy" 17:46:35 oh, MOL? 17:46:38 *nods* 17:46:39 that's gotta be darned slow 17:46:45 in the video 17:46:46 it's faster than my ex-roomates Mac actually 17:46:55 must have a slower mac :-) 17:47:02 Both are G3's 17:47:07 still 17:47:08 only 100Mhz difference 17:47:17 no QE on the roomate's mac? 17:47:26 the difference is in the memory architecture tho 17:47:32 the Peg has twice the bandwidth 17:47:34 yes, but that can't make up for lack of QE 17:47:39 and a better GPU 17:47:52 still, that GPU is only used if you have QE... 17:47:56 (she has an iMac w/ the Rage vid chip) 17:48:01 oh, ick 17:48:04 ick ick ick ick :-) 17:48:15 so my peg with the 3Dfx..... 17:49:07 I'm sure it's a nice box 17:49:13 I enjoy it 17:49:23 but like I said, I have no use for linux at all (except as a punching bag - die X! die X! oops, it does that on its own) 17:49:28 Heh 17:49:37 I have it setup so you don't even see Linux 17:49:43 boot straight to Mac OS X 17:49:50 heh 17:50:03 it would be much nicer just to have a native darwin port 17:50:11 have you used an OS X machine with QE? 17:50:12 Hey, it's under-development 17:50:16 the difference is tremendous 17:50:24 Afraid not, the roomates mac didn't quality for that 17:50:27 ok 17:50:49 suffice it to say, it doesn't change launch times of apps but it makes the actual GUI smooth as glass 17:50:54 on even the lowliest of machines 17:50:55 That reminds me, I need to check to see what's happening with the OpenDarwin port. 17:50:59 *nods* 17:51:42 hm, the US resellers look a bit... funky 17:52:26 don't remind me 17:52:29 * downix grumbles 17:52:45 the actually *good* reseller had to close shop when the boss hired him 17:53:04 you can order direct from us tho 17:53:14 Well, not at the moment as we don't do pre-orders 17:53:15 oh, cool 17:53:34 (our next assembly run starts in a few weeks, we'll begin taking orders when we begin producing) 17:53:38 * chandler puts it on the list of toys to buy at some point 17:54:03 If it were between a Peg and an A1, I'd take the Peg irregardless of working for Genesi 17:54:20 * downix delt with one of those boards personally, never again 17:54:49 after seeing the mess surrounding the A1 situation I wouldn't buy one anyway 17:55:04 but my #1 priority toy-to-acquire is still a lispm 17:55:14 didn't you love how the fact it broke PCI's spec was a feature and not a bug? 17:55:20 (from their PR) 17:55:33 ooo, a LISP machine.... 17:55:37 I've always wanted one 17:55:50 heh, I didn't see that about the PCI 17:56:03 oh? 17:56:04 heh 17:56:16 basically their thought, let PCI access memory at the same time as the CPU 17:56:58 now, what happens if you have two devices writing to memory at the same time? 17:56:59 whooh! and twenty years worth of progress in system architechture is rolled back... 17:57:26 yeah, it's called a race condition :-) 17:57:41 thank you, someone else that knows what I'm talking about! 17:58:53 frankly, the whole mobo is a joke 17:59:04 the memory controller is at least 7 years out of date 17:59:11 the AGP doesn't work 17:59:14 and the ever-ephemeral Wired Vapoware-awarded AOS4 isn't? :D 17:59:22 Um... 17:59:25 * downix blushes 17:59:31 you know the guy they quoted for that? 17:59:34 no 17:59:37 you? 17:59:39 * downix nods 17:59:43 hah 17:59:45 Out of *all* the entries.... 18:00:34 anyways 18:00:55 Part of my job was to do a head-to-head comparison of MOS vs OS4, to judge it's potential as a threat 18:01:07 it doesn't 18:03:09 Ah well 18:03:34 but, due to that analysis, genesi was willing to let Hyperion have a Pegasos so they could port OS4 18:05:34 they might accept someday, who knows 18:05:50 I do know that they need better hardware to compete than the A1 18:06:25 I know nothing about the actual OS comparisons 18:06:32 I was never an Amigite 18:06:48 Remember the old "next-gen MacOS" project before Rhapsody? 18:07:12 Pink? 18:07:14 or Copland? 18:07:20 Copland 18:07:22 ok 18:07:33 that's the same approach OS4 is taking for the future 18:07:47 "never ship"? 18:07:54 MorphOS, for comparison, uses an approach closer to OS/2 or Mac OS X 18:08:00 * chandler brbs 18:08:01 heh 18:08:11 I just mean, retrofitting new designs on top of old ones 18:15:57 * chandler throws his phone into the chasm of mount doom 18:16:08 now that that's taken care of... 18:16:15 does MorphOS have protected memory for user processes? 18:16:30 as much as you can do in an Amiga-based API 18:17:02 is there any type of minimal POSIX kit? 18:17:17 yes, 2 of them, ixemul and geekgadgets 18:17:22 I prefer gg 18:17:47 oh oh, I know geekgadgets 18:17:51 they did BeOS stuff too 18:17:56 *nods* 18:17:56 * chandler is an ex-Be-ite 18:18:01 Be is cool 18:18:08 You'd love what's coming with MorphOS then 18:18:09 8) 18:18:09 "was", sadly 18:18:37 actually I'm pretty happy with OS X. It's not as lightweight as Be but for media work it's pretty snazzy, and Cocoa's even better than the Be APIs 18:18:42 *nods* 18:18:57 Cocoa looks quite interesting, I'll agree 18:19:18 Do you understand what the ABox and QBox are in MorphOS? 18:19:30 it's more sustainable too... no fragile base class issue 18:20:21 hm, I don't know those terms in particular but I do know that MorphOS has two APIs, one native, the other kind of like Carbon in being a compatibility API 18:20:26 is that what they refer to? 18:20:29 Right 18:20:33 ok 18:20:38 QBox is the native, ABox is the compatibility 18:21:13 most of what you *see* is ABox, but the QBox is there running a lot of the lower-end tasks 18:21:22 (such as memory protection and virtual memory) 18:21:40 nifty 18:22:03 More and more is migrating to the QBox, but from a user-perspective you won't know the difference 18:22:04 8) 18:22:26 very nice 18:22:48 thanks to how the Amiga's GUI system works, you can insert its drawing calls into an external device, thereby you could implant Amiga app programs into a fully native screen and it would look normal 18:23:12 cool, that's an advantage I suppose :-) 18:23:29 Means you don't end up with the headaches you'll find in OS/2 when you run Windows apps 18:24:19 Can you tell I love this system? 18:24:21 8) 18:24:27 yes, I can, and it's pretty cool 18:24:36 but, in researching I had to be cut and dry in comparison 18:24:51 I figured if I found an area OS4 was ahead, get the MOS developers to work on that area 18:25:27 I know there was some noise quite a while ago regarding OO.o for OS4... do the MorphOS folks have any plans on that front? 18:25:39 OO.o? 18:25:56 sorry, openoffice.org 18:25:59 ah 18:26:02 that's usually how it's abbreviated 18:26:10 that never went anywhere 18:26:13 ok 18:26:23 MorphOS has an office suite in beta however, Papyrus Office 18:26:54 that sounds /awfully/ familiar but I can't place it 18:26:54 (I looked into OO.o's port to OS4 as an idea to get it ported to MOS) 18:27:07 Papyrus was the office suite for Atari's TOS and it ran on BeOS as well 18:27:14 lightweight yet powerful 18:27:22 ok, that's where I recognize it then :-) 18:27:44 actually my essential productivty tool is LaTeX :-) 18:27:49 Heh 18:28:09 I'm helping right now in our Scala replacement 18:28:17 makes PowerPoint look like a tinker toy 18:28:32 Keynote will be pretty close tho 18:29:34 Keynote's interesting... I gave a presentation with it once. It had some really nice templates (very professional) and the alignment guides were pure bliss, but the rest of it is far beyond what I use as a presenter 18:29:44 and arguably is far beyond what should be used :-) 18:30:03 * downix nods 18:30:16 MediaPoint looks good, even if the GUI is ancient 18:30:23 (our package) 18:30:34 ok, never heard of it... 18:30:40 But what I think is MOS's best app atm is ImageFX 18:31:10 MediaPoint was a Scala clone for Europe make in '97. It's GUI is still from '97 18:31:15 ok 18:31:23 and very european in nature, hell on earth 18:31:29 We have someone fixing it up tho 18:31:30 8) 18:31:45 cool 18:32:09 actually I lied above. LaTeX is my secondary productivty application. My essential productivty application is emacs :-) 18:32:17 heh 18:32:20 EMACS rules! 18:32:30 I do most of my work in EMACs 18:32:34 mmmmmmmmmmm, emacs :) 18:32:45 * chandler has a continuing inner war about emacs 18:32:58 EMACS, the only real general-purpose application 18:32:58 8) 18:33:02 emacs as in GNU/xemacs is the most complete emacs out there 18:33:08 but at the same time it has some clinker design decisions 18:33:14 particularly elisp 18:33:46 * blockhead misses the nice emacs he had on his amiga 18:33:56 blockhead: which one? 18:34:24 I just run XEMACS on MOS 18:34:30 somethign called mg2 or somethign liek that. it was old but it was nice. wb 1.3 vintage but ran on wb 3.0 nicely 18:34:36 heh 18:34:56 I've never gotten along well with xemacs 18:35:01 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 18:35:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 18:35:04 I just havn't found an emacs as nice for the current machine 18:35:15 hey Sam! 18:35:18