00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.01.11
00:00:21 * arke is away: Good night all. Frapiar is going very well. In fact, I might be able to release the first version this weekend. Wish me luck :)
00:06:00 <ianp> good luck
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01:47:35 <ayrnieu> slava - I lost LSD.  Could you that .jar back up, please?
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07:48:09 <mur> haev you seen ree lately?
07:55:12 <Robert> No
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08:41:37 * arke is back (gone 08:41:21)
08:41:40 <arke> Moo.
08:43:07 <arke> hiya kc5tja
08:43:33 <kc5tja> Howdy
08:43:49 <kc5tja> I think I finally settled on the interpreter for FS/Forth.
08:43:55 <kc5tja> Now I'm working on the vocabulary search code.
08:44:04 <kc5tja> After that is done, numeric conversion routines.
08:44:36 <kc5tja> A lot of time I spent trying to figure out whether or not I wanted destructive or nondestructive IFs, whether or not they relied exclusively on flags or not, and other similar matters.
08:44:38 <arke> Numeric conversion shouldn
08:44:44 <arke> t be too hard, i guess
08:44:53 <kc5tja> That's why I'm leaving it until last.
08:45:01 <kc5tja> I'm taking care of the more important problems first.
08:45:08 <arke> eek flag-based IF = ew IMO
08:45:29 <kc5tja> I finally decided that IF and -IF will be supported, and that the ? word in FS/Forth will not accept a parameter from the stack, but will just expand to OR EAX,EAX.
08:45:35 <arke> mur: there?
08:45:40 <kc5tja> If you need to test individual bits, use AND, like it was intended to be used.  :)
08:45:57 <arke> Ack.
08:46:07 <arke> so you have to do ? IF now right?
08:46:12 <kc5tja> arke: I more or less agree, but a non-flag-based IF is slow in comparison.
08:46:18 <kc5tja> arke: Not all the time.
08:46:26 <kc5tja> Arithmetic sets CPU flags, so you don't often need ?.
08:46:43 <kc5tja> a b - -if a<b ;; then a>b ;
08:46:50 <arke> but then you're dependent on whether or not the CPU does it
08:46:57 <kc5tja> Yep.
08:47:09 <kc5tja> FS/Forth generates code for x86, so I'm pretty confident I know x86's rules.  :)
08:47:11 <mur> arke: yes
08:47:14 <arke> and then lets say you port it to PPC or such?
08:47:33 <kc5tja> Then the rules will change, of course.
08:47:38 <arke> mur: ree is usually online, but he seems to ignore everybody (including me). he hangs around in #asm
08:47:45 <arke> kc5tja: thats bad though.
08:47:57 <kc5tja> arke: Who is to determine what is good and what is bad?
08:48:15 <kc5tja> If you don't like it, then do this:
08:48:17 <kc5tja> COMPILER
08:48:26 <arke> Well, if the rules change for 2 different archs, thats bad.
08:48:27 <kc5tja> : if postpone ? postpone if ;
08:48:32 <kc5tja> : -if postpone ? postpone -if ;
08:48:33 <kc5tja> FORTH
08:48:41 <arke> tr00.
08:48:46 <kc5tja> : foo 1 if ." true" ;; then ." false" ;
08:49:36 <kc5tja> But the point is, FS/Forth generates machine code directly from Forth instructions.
08:49:52 <kc5tja> The compiler environment is intended to be simple.
08:50:36 <kc5tja> I like the older Forth virtual machine concept.  I still do feel that < IF is more correct than -IF (especially since -IF is known only to work on unsigned numbers).  Still, I'm willing to experiment.
08:51:22 <kc5tja> NB: Even Moore agrees that the older Forths implement a more 'correct' or more 'proper', mathematically speaking, virtual machine.  But he's willing to sacrifice that for software simplicity and speed.
08:53:21 <arke> Ack. :)
08:53:42 <arke> Are you going to implement a register optimization thingy?
08:56:14 <arke> Frapiar is going well ^____^
08:56:32 <kc5tja> maybe later.
08:56:56 <arke> does anybody have a link to somewhere that explains a simple yet fast overlapping window optimization algorithm?
08:57:03 <kc5tja> Right now I'm sticking with an explicitly managed software stack, because I know it works, and provides the quickest route to working software.
08:57:33 <kc5tja> arke: That's a pretty vague concept.  Can you narrow that down?
09:01:18 <arke> kc5tja: Well, Frapiar needs to be able to display overlapping Windows. Right now, it just draws them all in sequence, which is of course horribly slow for overlapping windows
09:02:01 <kc5tja> arke: Check out some stuff on "Layers" from Rob Pike.
09:02:10 <kc5tja> Google, or go to CiteSeer.
09:02:51 <arke> Cool, thanks
09:02:58 <arke> brb, breakfast
09:04:33 <mur> :)
09:14:48 * kc5tja is away: The 3 S'es...
09:14:58 <kc5tja> Getting ready for work.
09:18:47 <arke> back
09:37:11 * kc5tja is back (gone 00:22:23)
09:37:32 <arke> WB my firned
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10:11:30 <slava> hi
10:14:14 <arke> hiya
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11:13:31 <MrReach> hihi!
11:13:45 <MrReach> I need a *BIG* favor ...
11:14:24 <MrReach> can someone point me to a .iso for WinXPPro?
11:15:33 <Sonarman> have you tried kazaa or gnutella?
11:15:41 <MrReach> just going there now
11:15:54 <MrReach> thought I'd ask people I trust first
11:16:19 <Sonarman> you could always try efnet #warez, i guess :)
11:16:54 <Sonarman> although they might not be the most trustworthy
11:22:08 <slava> i'm working on the compiler for my language.
11:22:12 <slava> it only correctly compiles 2 words so far, drop and nop (nop does nothing) :)
11:35:53 <arke> Oh I LOVE my Mom's vehicle...
11:36:01 <arke> 1984 Chevy Blazer 4x4 
11:36:04 <arke> such a LOVELY car
11:50:56 <slava> hmm, rdrop now compiles too :)
11:51:02 <slava> ( r:A -- ) :)
12:11:23 --- log: started forth/04.01.11
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12:11:23 --- topic: 'A channel dedicated to the Forth programming language, its implementation, its application, and its philosophy.'
12:11:23 --- topic: set by kc5tja on [Fri Dec 12 07:57:32 2003]
12:11:23 --- names: list (clog MrReach Sonarman madgarden MysticOne hovil Robert XeF4_ qFox arke ayrnieu I440r onetom warpzero oooo___ scope TreyB slava cmeme ianp @ChanServ chandler skylan mur)
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12:37:25 <I440r> mrrach :)
12:37:40 <Robert> Hey
12:37:52 <I440r> argh anyone know his email ?
12:38:50 <hovil> new 4tH release on freshmeat
12:38:56 <hovil> quality software for a change
12:39:14 <I440r> whats it called ?
12:39:27 <I440r> and doesnt isforth count as quality ??? lol
12:39:36 <I440r> i mean... WHEN it has documentation lol
12:40:24 <hovil> I haven't seen it on the frontpage
12:40:33 <hovil> 4tH is a Forth compiler with a little difference. Instead of the 
12:40:33 <hovil> standard Forth engine it features a conventional compiler. 4tH is a very
12:40:33 <hovil> small compiler that can create bytecode, C-embeddable bytecode,
12:40:33 <hovil> standalone executables, but also works fine as a scripting language.
12:41:03 <I440r> hrm doesnt sound like forth to me
12:43:20 <I440r> i gotta reboot this laptop to windows grrr
12:43:24 <I440r> hate doing that :P
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12:51:47 <Sonarman> hey karingo 
12:58:39 <karingo> as always it is a way of thinking, not a language, so in that it can be applied to any language.
12:59:46 <hovil> is that so
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13:28:54 <slava> time to work on my compiler :)
13:29:01 <slava> lets see if i can get dup to compile;.
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15:02:40 <slava> all stack words are now compiled from their shuffle representation to jvm bytecode!
15:04:06 <tathi> go slava
15:04:37 <slava> hi tathi
15:05:03 <slava> tathi, what i mean is in my language, rot is defined as ~<< rot   a b c -- b c a >>~
15:07:44 <chandler> slava: is the source code to a LSD program read in by some kind of standard reader which constructs a list, ala lisp READ, or is it a funky syntax?
15:08:14 <slava> chandler, the parser outputs a list, whose elements might be more lists, yes
15:08:38 <slava> chandler, the syntax is very simple.
15:08:38 <chandler> niiice
15:09:43 <slava> after the compiler is a bit more complete i will release the interpreter.
15:10:13 <mur> 7win 5
15:10:22 <chandler> mur: ah, another irssi user
15:10:35 <chandler> slava: ... you're going to release the interpreter part once the compiler is more complete, or release them both?
15:10:36 <mur> that is correct :)
15:11:48 <slava> chandler, both
15:12:16 <chandler> ah
15:14:17 <chandler> do you have type introspection ala CL TYPE-OF?
15:16:16 <slava> yes
15:16:32 <chandler> cool
15:16:41 <slava> the math operators are overloaded to handle ints, floats, bignums and ratios
15:16:59 <chandler> nice
15:18:02 --- nick: Robert -> rob_ert
15:19:35 <chandler> is type overloading / multiple dispatch a user-accessible part of the language?
15:19:55 <slava> not really, i haven't thought about it yet. but it would be nice
15:20:25 <chandler> you could do something akin to your stack description, potentially
15:20:55 <chandler> : word << [n number] [s string] >> definition ;
15:20:59 <chandler> or somesuch
15:21:31 <slava> yes i've thought of that
15:21:48 <slava> except the parameters wouldn't be named -- i haven't felt a need for locals yet.
15:21:58 <chandler> oh, good point
15:22:04 * chandler was thinking in CL
15:22:08 <slava> i try to avoid complex stack effects
15:22:14 <slava> i don't even use 2swap, 2dup and friends very much;.
15:22:16 <chandler> very forth :-)
15:22:25 <slava> fuck my keyboard's ; key sometimes produces ;.
15:22:38 <slava> well its a mix of lisp and forth. this is quine: [ dup cons . ] dup cons .
15:24:08 <chandler> nice
15:24:31 <slava> bbl
15:25:06 <chandler> let me know when you get a fancy GUI for it too :-)
15:25:51 <slava> like a listener?
15:27:03 <chandler> listener, debugger, inspector
15:27:18 <chandler> visual word documentation
15:27:21 <chandler> apropos
15:27:31 <chandler> editor too. that sort of thing :-)
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15:35:13 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
15:35:32 <mur> moi
15:35:36 <mur> ja moi moi
15:35:47 <TheBlueWizard> terve :)
15:35:58 <mur> hyvää yötä
15:36:01 <TheBlueWizard> you going to bed soon?
15:36:17 <TheBlueWizard> ah ... moi :)
15:36:35 <mur> i try now
15:36:38 <mur> it's 1.36am
15:36:49 <mur> gotta get up 7.40
15:36:59 <mur> in 6 hours that is
15:37:09 <TheBlueWizard> joo...need to sleep :)
15:38:05 <mur> kauniita unia (älä nukahda päivällä :)
15:38:13 <mur> poissa
15:38:15 <mur> _-
15:39:05 * TheBlueWizard will decipher that later :)
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15:44:30 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r\ (I hope the \ doesn't signify anything abnormal with him :)
15:45:45 <I440r\> tbw do you know anyting about windows xp ?
15:45:53 <I440r\> im getting seriously fucking annoyed with it
15:45:59 <I440r\> my mose is very fucking gittrery
15:46:09 <I440r\> i move the mose 4 or 5 times accross the pad to move an inch
15:46:16 <I440r\> or i just BREATHE and it goes flying
15:46:18 <I440r\> fuck
15:46:21 <TheBlueWizard> no I don't win xp...sorry
15:46:24 <I440r\> fucking impossible to use
15:46:39 <I440r\> and its a brand new fresh xp install PLUS the correct mouse drivers installed too
15:46:51 <TheBlueWizard> weird....prolly screwed up driver...
15:47:02 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...or bad hardware
15:47:06 <TheBlueWizard> beats me
15:47:12 <I440r\> no - i didnt have the driver installed initially, couldnt find it 
15:47:21 <I440r\> the hardware is perfect in linux
15:47:30 <TheBlueWizard> hmm
15:48:06 <I440r\> ive located and installed the drivers and its not fixed the problem
15:48:16 <TheBlueWizard> try google for anything on that...not easy to find...but worth a shot
15:48:44 <I440r\> it almost looks as if its a multitasking problem
15:48:56 <TheBlueWizard> also try M$ Knowledge Base
15:48:58 <I440r\> the mouse driver isnt getting enough of the pie to do its job
15:49:16 <I440r\> the ms knowledge base is great if your prepared to spend 10 years wading through it all
15:49:29 <TheBlueWizard> that's even curiouser
15:49:39 <I440r\> the mose doesnt move at a constant rate
15:49:42 <I440r\> its jerky
15:50:20 <TheBlueWizard> lol....sometimes with right searching I can find it fairly right away...other time it just sux...royally
15:50:45 <I440r\> i dont want to have to deal with even trying to FIND the knwledge base
15:51:58 <TheBlueWizard> sounds like the top layer of mouse driver is at fault....by that I mean the part that get data from the lower part (the driver that reads the mouse)
15:53:46 <I440r\> what ever it is its fscking annoying. i think im gona hafta reinstall from scratch again
15:54:11 <I440r\> ive found that the install for xp is very very irratic itself, never the same thing twice froma fresh install
15:54:34 <I440r\> problem is this means booting to linux, deleteing the partition and recreating the partition
15:54:49 <I440r\> if i just delete it so the xp install can create the partition it refuses to do so
15:55:02 <I440r\> "you already have the maximum number of partitions on that drive"
15:55:06 <I440r\> bullshit
15:55:27 <I440r\> you can have FOUR primary partitions and im trying to get xp to create the FIRST of 4 with the other 3 already there
15:56:55 <fridge> heh
15:56:58 <I440r\> xp totally sucks 
15:57:04 <fridge> I nuked it
15:57:15 <fridge> haven't really missed it
15:57:17 <I440r\> but i have no choice if i want to develop this 8051 forth
15:57:28 <I440r\> at least for now that is
15:57:30 <TheBlueWizard> this win xp is total crap, obviously...again, I don't know anything about win xp
15:58:03 <I440r\> xp is actualoy the closest thing microshaft has ever made to a useable OS
15:58:07 <slava> I440r\, why are you using xp?
15:58:10 <I440r\> but its STILL totally fscked up
15:58:27 <I440r\> slava because the devel tools for this cygnal 8051 are windows specific
15:58:30 <I440r\> no linux support
15:58:34 <slava> ok
16:11:27 <I440r\> are there any icq clients for windows other than icq2000 ? icq2000 falls over within 10 seconds of launching
16:11:42 <I440r\> it does that on ALL the machines ive installed in on for the past 2 years
16:16:51 <I440r\> lol i just had to hit escape for yes im sure - followed by F for yes im sure followed by enter for yes im sure followed by C for yes im sure lol
16:16:55 <I440r\> wtf is that all about
16:18:03 <TheBlueWizard> more reasons NOT to use closed source crap :)
16:19:31 <I440r\> erm i gotta take some DVD's back to the store - ill brb
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16:36:29 <TheBlueWizard> hiya proteusguy
16:37:39 <proteusguy> Howdy - very long time no see! What's new an exciting on the forth front?
16:40:55 <TheBlueWizard> well, someone gave an old book titled "Library of Forth Routines and Utilities" (published in 1986) yesterday :)
16:42:09 <proteusguy> WOW - never heard of such a thing!
16:42:25 <proteusguy> Who wrote/published it?
16:42:45 <TheBlueWizard> I admit it was kinda interesting...but rather oddball sort of book
16:43:23 <TheBlueWizard> James D. Terry wrote it, published by Plume
16:44:39 <TheBlueWizard> the guy who gave it to me has it for 12 years, but never had the time to really use that book...he bought it cuz of two chapters: natural language processing, and expert systems
16:45:14 <proteusguy> Wow - pretty diverse stuff. Kinda a Art of Programming for forth eh?
16:45:58 <TheBlueWizard> no...absolutely not at all
16:46:28 <TheBlueWizard> just an oddball kind, really...if you take a look inside, you will know what I mean
16:49:43 <TheBlueWizard> well, gotta go...bye all
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16:52:55 <downix> Hey!
16:53:14 * downix checks the topic, WHAT?  Sam comes here?
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16:56:44 <ayrnieu> slava - ping.
16:57:01 <slava> hi
16:57:28 <ayrnieu> slava - could you put LSD back up, please?
16:58:01 <downix> ok, left a memo for Sam, got to keep in touch with him
16:58:14 <slava> ayrnieu, it will be back up shortly
16:58:20 <downix> anyways, can someone point me to a good reference about coding OpenFirmware drivers?
17:01:26 <slava> ayrnieu, http://slava.kicks-ass.org:8888/asm.lhtml?rot
17:01:47 <slava> ayrnieu, note that the compiler is still pretty naive
17:02:00 <slava> ayrnieu, in the future most stack operators won't even get compiled directly -- it will just rename local variables.
17:03:13 <slava> ayrnieu, http://slava.kicks-ass.org/slava/LSD.jar
17:04:43 <ayrnieu> slava - thankee.
17:05:12 <slava> ayrnieu, the httpd crashed
17:05:34 <ayrnieu> That seems to have not bothered my download.
17:06:15 <slava> oh :80 is apache, :8888 is lsd-httpd
17:06:33 <slava> it seems to have a problem when i run it with the compiler enabled
17:06:49 <slava> in fact it looks like a security vunrability: it crashes attempting to evlauate the 2 words Host: slava.kicks-ass.org:8888
17:09:30 <ayrnieu> oh, it seems that Kaffe can't run LSD.  Too bad.
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17:10:40 <slava> ayrnieu, get sun's jdk 1.4.
17:11:17 <ayrnieu> slava - doesn't really work for OpenBSD.
17:11:22 <slava> oh
17:11:29 <slava> i intend to get it working with gcj and kaffe later.
17:11:43 <slava> it probably only has a handful of jdk 1.4-specific methods
17:12:08 <ayrnieu> Kaffe seems put off by libnative.
17:12:32 <slava> there is a security hole in the httpd. since server side scripts evaluate with stdin/out redirected to the network socket, if you crash a script it will start the debugger on stdin/out which is the socket!
17:12:50 <ayrnieu> slava - wee.
17:13:32 <slava> i need to add a 'catch' to the language.
17:14:03 <ayrnieu> throw catch abort" abort =)  Why not?
17:14:19 <arke> hiiya
17:14:22 <slava> something like that :)
17:14:34 <arke> I seriously thought it would be greenbay vs. rams
17:14:45 <arke> and it turns out to be panthers vs. eagles
17:14:56 <arke> although I would like to see the eagles win..
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17:47:08 <arke> hi kc5tja
17:47:44 <slava> hi kc5tja
17:47:53 <kc5tja> slava: Howdy
17:47:56 <kc5tja> re arke
17:47:58 <arke> WTF!?
17:48:02 <arke> HE GETS GREETED FIRST?
17:48:05 <arke> WHAT THE HELL?
17:48:07 <kc5tja> downix: What is going on?  Long time no see.
17:48:09 <slava> kc5tja, i'm working on the compiler for my language. it seems to work -- the game starts and plays fine.
17:48:09 <arke> (just kidding)
17:48:22 <arke> kc5tja: I applied at INO today
17:48:30 <kc5tja> arke: You did?
17:48:34 <arke> Yes :)
17:48:37 <downix> hey Sam!
17:48:53 <arke> "Do you know any individuals who currently are employed at INO?"
17:48:54 <slava> ... and the AI still kicks my ass
17:49:09 <kc5tja> arke: Hehe 
17:49:09 <arke> I was considering putting "Samuel Falvo II (San Diego)"
17:49:16 <kc5tja> arke: You should.  :)
17:49:24 <kc5tja> I work at store 71.
17:49:40 <arke> Well, I didn't know if you would mind, so I played it safe.
17:49:40 <kc5tja> See, because you didn't, if you get hired, I'm gipped out of $50.  :D
17:49:58 <arke> Oh!?
17:50:01 <arke> Aww...
17:50:05 <arke> I didn't know that
17:50:06 <kc5tja> :)
17:50:06 <arke> I'm sorry
17:50:10 <arke> I'll apply again
17:50:12 <arke> and put your name
17:50:13 <kc5tja> Hehe :)
17:50:18 <kc5tja> Just tell the manager.
17:50:20 <arke> Samuel Falvo II, San Diego, store 71
17:50:22 <arke> Ok :)
17:50:34 <kc5tja> I don't know if he can retroactively change the application, but...
17:50:48 <arke> I'll see ^___^
17:51:00 <kc5tja> downix: Sorry; money comes first.  I want that $50.  >:D
17:51:02 <kc5tja> j/k
17:51:12 <kc5tja> downix: What's been happening?
17:51:29 <arke> Frapiar is going slow, haven't been able to work on it much.
17:51:36 <arke> Which reminds me, thats what I shall do now.
17:51:37 <downix> well, working for Genesi now, such as it is, overworked, underpaid, the usual
17:51:40 <downix> how about yourself?
17:51:55 <I440r\> downix where are they located ?
17:51:56 <kc5tja> downix: I work for In-n-Out Burgers.  
17:52:16 <kc5tja> Currently residing in San Diego now.
17:52:20 <kc5tja> Going to school.
17:52:21 <I440r\> kc5 i had to work for walmart for a few months.... i hated that
17:52:28 <slava> would you like fries with that?
17:52:45 <I440r\> only if they are kurlie friez :)
17:53:15 <kc5tja> I440r\: We don't have any of that pinko commie crap.  Our fries are french fries, good old American-style fries!  Home made too.
17:53:20 <kc5tja> We even peel the potatoes ourselves.
17:53:23 <arke> kc5tja: don't make him feel sorry for you. I'd love to work there.
17:53:28 <arke> I work at McDonalds :(
17:53:37 <I440r\> kc5 lol - those wil ldo :)P
17:53:39 <downix> l440r\:  Luxembourg
17:53:45 <downix> kc5:  what happened to hifn?
17:53:45 <I440r\> specially if they have the skins on still
17:53:47 <I440r\> yummie!
17:53:58 <arke> :)
17:53:59 <kc5tja> downix: They laid me off during the previous recession.
17:54:10 <kc5tja> I440r\: No, we peel the skins.
17:54:18 <kc5tja> But they're still good.
17:54:25 <kc5tja> We use Kennebec potatoes.
17:54:34 <I440r\> :)
17:54:42 <I440r\> send me some :)
17:54:47 <I440r\> dcc send I440r fries
17:55:22 <kc5tja> Heh
17:55:53 <downix> Oh man
17:56:05 <downix> sorry to hear that
17:56:05 <kc5tja> downix: see http://www.falvotech.com/cgi/fsforth for some things I've been up to of late.
17:56:19 <kc5tja> downix: Whatever.  It's their loss, not mine.
17:56:23 <downix> Yup
17:56:36 <downix> I've got Eddas almost done, got parts of it in FPGA now for testing
17:56:37 <kc5tja> True, I don't have the cash flow, but they mismanaged their projects anyway.
17:56:41 * downix nods
17:56:43 <downix> IKWYM!
17:58:39 <kc5tja> So what are you doing for Genesi?
17:59:11 <downix> nominally web development.  Ends up I do project management for a dozen sub-projects
18:01:02 <kc5tja> sorry, i'm starting to nod off.
18:01:06 <downix> Eddas isn't part of Genesi tho, I wouldn't sign-on until they guaranteed no claim on it
18:01:08 <downix> it's ok
18:03:10 <kc5tja> What's their site?
18:03:32 <downix> http://www.genesi.lu
18:05:45 <I440r\> kc5 try get them to not peel the spuds for making fries, with the skins on is way cool!
18:05:58 <kc5tja> I440r\: Ick.  And no, I can't do that.
18:06:06 <kc5tja> We have to peel the skins for health-related reasons.
18:06:08 <I440r\> have you ever had it before?
18:06:12 <kc5tja> I440r\: Yes.
18:06:13 <I440r\> oh bleh
18:06:13 <kc5tja> Ick.
18:06:14 <kc5tja> :)
18:06:21 <kc5tja> Tastes like . . . dirt.  :)
18:06:26 <kc5tja> Which shouldn't be surprising.
18:06:27 <I440r\> they levave em on in jucy burgers :)
18:06:42 <I440r\> which i call greacy burgers :)
18:06:42 <arke> Gosh
18:06:49 <arke> when INO means onions, they MEAN onions
18:06:54 <arke> I had a double double today
18:07:03 <arke> "Would you like onions with that" "Sure"
18:07:13 <kc5tja> arke: :)
18:07:17 * arke , of course, was expecting the MsDonald's ration of onions
18:07:24 <kc5tja> Should have asked for whole-grilled onions.  :)
18:07:25 <downix> Sam, your Bronze core is still mostly intact in Eddas too
18:07:27 <arke> *Chomp* eeertyaayahhahha
18:07:30 <arke> I love onions :)
18:07:32 <downix> the blitter rather evolved tho
18:07:33 <kc5tja> downix: Cool.
18:07:47 <downix> it's now also handling polygons, texturing and lighting
18:08:23 <kc5tja> downix: I'm moving more in the direction of Forth-based systems and Cray-like vector processing units.
18:08:28 <I440r\> blitter ?
18:08:43 <I440r\> the amiga blitter ?
18:09:10 * downix nods
18:09:17 <I440r\> doing polygons ?
18:09:19 <downix> not quite the amiga blitter
18:09:42 <downix> Sam drafted me up a basic chunky blitter, similar to that on the Atari Jaguar actually, and I've evolved it
18:10:02 <I440r\> cool :)
18:10:23 <downix> kc5tja:  I've been exploring vector units, but not heavily at this time
18:11:19 <arke> How amazing. Sam made l33t hardware, and is now working at In-n-Out Burger.
18:11:23 <kc5tja> The blitter is a vector processing unit.  It's just specialized for graphics.
18:11:35 <kc5tja> arke: The story of my life.
18:11:38 <kc5tja> I should write a book.
18:11:42 <arke> odd.
18:11:52 <arke> What are you learning in school right now?
18:11:55 <kc5tja> arke: This kind of thing has been a family curse for generations.
18:12:04 <arke> kc5tja: :(
18:12:07 <kc5tja> I'm glad I'm the last of my bloodline, so as to forever terminate the curse.
18:12:24 <downix> lol
18:12:30 <kc5tja> You think I'm kidding?
18:12:33 <kc5tja> My dad is poor.
18:12:34 <downix> No
18:12:36 <kc5tja> My mom is poor.
18:12:39 <kc5tja> My grandparents are poor.
18:12:43 <downix> I've actually wondered lately where you'd gone to
18:12:49 <kc5tja> My great-grandparents don't even have a house (if they're still alive).
18:12:50 <I440r\> nothing wrong with poor
18:12:55 <kc5tja> THey live in a trailor park.
18:13:04 <kc5tja> I440r\: There is EVERYTHING wrong with poor.
18:13:16 <kc5tja> People have a right to LIVE, not just to survive.
18:13:17 <I440r\> give me a choice between a billion dollars and just ONE woman i can live with the rest of my life and i would take the woman
18:13:41 <kc5tja> NOT POOR != RICH.
18:13:52 <kc5tja> or should that be, POOR NOT != RICK.  :)
18:13:53 <arke> I440r\: Yes, but you have gun. That makes a world of difference.
18:14:04 <kc5tja> OK, let's not start that.
18:14:08 <arke> Who's Rick? :)
18:14:11 <I440r\> err how does the gun make a difference
18:14:12 <arke> I440r\: :P
18:14:19 <MysticOne> I work with a guy named rick!  
18:14:19 <I440r\> other than i COLULD use it to hunt :)
18:14:24 <MysticOne> kc5tja: I didn't know you knew him!
18:14:28 * MysticOne snickers
18:14:29 <MysticOne> j/k
18:14:36 <arke> I440r\: you can hunt, threaten, shoot, and eat people.
18:14:39 <I440r\> i just got throu making 100 rounds of 223 ammo too
18:14:45 <kc5tja> Here's a great example.
18:14:50 <I440r\> arke yummie
18:14:57 <arke> erm
18:14:58 <arke> oops
18:14:58 <arke> lol
18:15:00 <arke> haha
18:15:10 <MysticOne> actually ... for you to be *above* the poverty line in the US, you have to make like $8.50/hour and work 40 hours a week
18:15:11 <kc5tja> If I could work at In-n-Out for the rest of my life, and train in Aikido with the world's best masters as an uchi-deshi, then I'd consider myself not poor
18:15:16 <MysticOne> yet minimum wage is $5.15/hour
18:15:28 <kc5tja> My food is virtually free, I get room and board, and I get kick-ass Aikido training (and I train others).
18:15:40 <I440r\> kc5 cool
18:15:49 <MysticOne> quality, not quantity :)
18:15:52 <I440r\> and you get to idle in #forth every now and then too :)
18:15:54 <kc5tja> As it is now, I get the same amount of pay otherwise, AND I have to pay my own rent, AND I have to pray every day I don't get direly sick, because guess who cannot afford medical insurance, etc.
18:16:04 <arke> kc5tja: :(
18:16:14 <kc5tja> That fine line is what determines the difference between poor and content.
18:19:12 <arke> typedef struct {
18:19:12 <arke> 	SDL_Surface *s;
18:19:12 <arke> 	SDL_Rect r;
18:19:12 <arke> 	Window_t *next;
18:19:14 <arke> [snip]
18:19:25 <arke> Window.c:10: error: parse error before "Window_t"
18:19:26 <arke> Window.c:10: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
18:19:37 <arke> line 10 being the Window_t one
18:19:39 <arke> wtf!?
18:20:10 <kc5tja> Is Window_t defined?
18:20:19 <kc5tja> And if it is defined, is it terminated with a semicolon?
18:20:31 <kc5tja> The above code is correct; the problem must lie elsewhere in the code.
18:21:18 <arke> Window_t is the one being defined
18:21:24 <arke> So Yes, it is correct in this case.
18:21:41 <arke> Hrm, lemme try something else.
18:21:57 <kc5tja> Well, that's the problem
18:22:04 <kc5tja> At the point you use Window_t, it's not yet defined.
18:22:08 <kc5tja> What you need to do is this:
18:22:15 <kc5tja> typedef struct Window Window_t;
18:22:18 <kc5tja> struct Window
18:22:18 <kc5tja> {
18:22:22 <kc5tja>   SDL_Surface *s;
18:22:25 <kc5tja>   SDL_Rect r;
18:22:27 <kc5tja>   Window_t *next;
18:22:29 <kc5tja> [snip]
18:22:31 <kc5tja> That'll work.
18:22:38 <Sonarman> or you could use a sexy macro
18:22:45 <kc5tja> Screw macros.
18:22:57 <kc5tja> There is no reason for macros here.
18:23:04 <arke> Ok, that works
18:23:04 <arke> thanks
18:23:11 <kc5tja> In each of my C header files, I have a whole section dedicated to just typedefs, then I define each structure below.
18:23:11 <arke> Odd, that used to work for me before.
18:23:15 <Sonarman> #define defstruct(type) typedef struct type type##_t; struct type
18:23:41 <arke> Sonarman: YOU ARE NOT SEXY
18:23:46 <Sonarman> less typing (no pun intended :-) )
18:23:53 <Sonarman> arke: NO BUT YOU ARE
18:28:27 <arke> :)
18:36:59 <arke> Eek!?
18:37:10 <arke> #include "Game.h"
18:37:10 <arke> void
18:37:10 <arke> Game_Init(Mission_t * m)
18:37:14 <arke> [snip]
18:37:28 <arke> Game.c:3: *** missing separator.  Stop.
18:37:39 <arke> er, wait....thats a Make error...duh
18:39:23 <arke> arrghhgppphhhthpthts
18:39:28 <arke> make hates me
18:41:22 --- quit: tathi ("Lost terminal")
18:44:12 --- quit: terminills ()
18:45:45 <arke> Oh yay, no warnings during compile!
18:45:48 <arke> thats the way I like it.
18:46:39 * kc5tja treats all warnings as errors in his projects.
18:48:31 <arke> Well, I won't go -Werror, but i WILL go out of my way to eliminate them.
18:48:36 <arke> Have you ever seen Epiar compile?
18:49:28 <kc5tja> no.  I'm not particularly interested in Epiar.
18:50:01 <arke> Well, it's GCC's field day
18:50:12 <arke> Warning after Warning after Warning after Warning etc. etc. etc. 
18:50:38 <kc5tja> That alone is justification for branching, IMHO.
18:50:41 <arke> Are you interested in Frapiar? :)
18:50:43 <arke> kc5tja: :)
18:51:00 <kc5tja> Not really.  Those kinds of games don't really interest me.
18:51:38 <arke> Well, at least somewhat because it's me? *pretty eye-lash flash*
18:51:43 <arke> :P
18:51:44 <kc5tja> Damnit, I'm hungry, I'm fat, and I can't think.  I need to get to the store, but the store probably won't have anything I'm hungry for.  >:(
18:52:07 <arke> Heh
18:52:25 <arke> we got fend-for-yourself night tonight, with restriction leftover-only
18:52:43 <Sonarman> i like canned beans
18:54:21 <ianp> <kc5tja> Damnit, I'm hungry, I'm fat, and I can't think.
18:54:23 <ianp> hahaha
18:54:27 <ianp> i need a tshirt that says that
18:54:41 <ianp> thats my perpetual state
18:55:04 <kc5tja> :)
19:00:23 <arke> :::=D  <--- alien
19:03:25 <Sonarman> or a guy balancing tennis balls on his head
19:05:04 <arke> LOL
19:06:59 <arke> Cool, I have XMMS change skin with every song.
19:15:48 <ayrnieu> bah, PFE accepts 3 as a ternary numeral.
19:16:04 <ayrnieu> oh, nevermind.  It has 3 as a constant =)
19:16:38 <arke> ...
19:17:29 * arke is away: 0xEATF00D 0xDEADBEEF
19:17:35 <slava> ayrnieu, look at this:
19:17:36 <slava>   ok> "car" see
19:17:37 <slava> : car
19:17:37 <slava>     ( compiled ) "lsd.LSDList" "car" jfield jvar$ ;
19:17:37 <slava>   ok> "car" asm.
19:17:37 <slava>     ALOAD 2
19:17:38 <slava>     GETFIELD lsd/LSDInterpreter datastack Llsd/LSDDataStack;
19:17:45 <slava>     DUP
19:17:47 <slava>     INVOKEVIRTUAL lsd/LSDArrayStack pop ()Ljava/lang/Object;
19:17:48 <slava>     CHECKCAST lsd/LSDList
19:17:50 <slava>     GETFIELD lsd/LSDList car Ljava/lang/Object;
19:17:52 <slava>     INVOKEVIRTUAL lsd/LSDArrayStack push (Ljava/lang/Object;)V
19:17:54 <slava>     RETURN
19:18:23 <ayrnieu> nifty =)
19:19:35 --- quit: downix ("Leaving")
19:28:53 --- join: dubious (~marc@209.71.234.197) joined #forth
19:44:33 <ayrnieu> yegads, I hate FICL's prompt.
19:48:57 * arke is back (gone 00:31:28)
19:49:10 <Sonarman> what is it about it that you hate?
19:50:27 <ayrnieu> It puts 'ok> ' at the beginning of input lines, whereas other Forths put 'ok' at the end of input.
19:51:34 <ayrnieu> It diverges on this silly point for no good reason, and it diverges *poorly* -- what the hell does 'ok' mean, anyway, as a prompt?
19:52:13 <ayrnieu> may as well have '> ' or ': ' or like -- but I'd still prefer the traditional behavior.
19:58:52 <ayrnieu> What happened to the ForthFreak wiki?
19:59:51 <kc5tja> back in a bit...
19:59:54 * kc5tja is away: Simpsons
20:00:40 <Sonarman> kc5tja: :)
20:26:08 <slava> kc5tja, 41 words compile, out of 281
20:26:59 <arke> Frapiar.Video.Window seems to compile correctly. Now, I need to add 2 more functions, then start testing :)
20:27:05 <slava> :)
20:27:31 <arke> It's going better than I tohught.
20:32:23 * kc5tja is back (gone 00:32:29)
20:33:00 <kc5tja> Actually, I'm going to head out for some food now.
20:33:04 <kc5tja> Be back in a bit.
20:33:07 * kc5tja is away: foodstuffs.
20:33:14 <arke> bya
21:06:23 * kc5tja is back (gone 00:33:15)
21:06:51 <arke> wb
21:10:32 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth
21:11:56 <kc5tja> re Herkamire
21:12:04 <arke> y0
21:12:14 <Herkamire> hi :)
21:12:40 <arke> wow, haven't said "y0" in a whiel :)
21:13:35 * ayrnieu doesn't know where the 'y0'-sayers came from, except that he started noticing it in #Scheme
21:15:26 <arke> THEY STOLE IT FROM ME
21:15:29 <arke> BASTARDS
21:15:33 <arke> I STARTED IT IN YPN
21:15:36 <arke> THEN HPROG
21:15:37 <arke> THEN SCHEME
21:15:44 <arke> AND THE BASTARDS STOLE IT WHEN I LEFT
21:17:56 <Sonarman> anyone here know how to use scp?
21:18:41 <ayrnieu> Sonar - yes.  What question do you have?
21:18:46 <ayrnieu> arke - ypn?
21:18:58 <arke> #ypn
21:19:11 <ayrnieu> #ypn?
21:19:22 <arke> Yes, #ypn
21:19:28 <Sonarman> if the user foobar on host 1.2.3.4 has a file in their home directory called feil, what would be the correct command line?
21:19:29 <arke> but they all suck big oversized !%#@%!!@$#!@%$!@
21:19:46 <Sonarman> scp foobar@1.2.3.4:/home/foobar/feil isn't working
21:19:46 <ayrnieu> 'ypn' doesn't mean anything to me, but OK.
21:19:56 <ayrnieu> sonar - correct commandline to do what?
21:20:20 <ayrnieu> sonar - does unix 'cp' accept just one argument?
21:20:29 <Sonarman> oh, heh :) to copy "feil" from 1.2.3.4 to me
21:20:49 <ayrnieu> for some reason, people want to treat scp like wget =)
21:21:20 <Sonarman> ayrnieu: feel free to hit me over the head with a hammer to kill my two remaining brain cells
21:21:44 <ayrnieu> sonarman - try this: scp foobar@1.2.3.4:/home/foobar/feil .
21:22:12 <Sonarman> yeah, it's working fine.  thanks ayrnieu
21:28:43 <Herkamire> hehe :) you need a distination
21:28:59 <Herkamire> Sonarman: you can leave off the "/home/foobar/"
21:29:08 <Herkamire> the default directory after the colon is their home directory
21:29:13 <Sonarman> thanks for the tip
21:29:37 <Sonarman> ls 4
21:29:59 <Sonarman> sorry i have no idea what i was thinking when i typed ^
21:49:34 --- quit: Herkamire ("goodnight all")
21:57:07 * arke is away: sleep
21:58:13 <kc5tja> So am I.
21:58:19 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK")
22:12:16 --- quit: I440r\ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:15:16 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth
22:39:47 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving")
22:54:46 --- quit: dubious ("Leaving")
23:07:04 --- quit: Serg ()
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/04.01.11