00:00:00 --- log: started forth/04.01.09 00:22:27 --- quit: Serg () 00:26:31 --- join: Serg (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 00:39:50 hurrah ! i fixed the DNS trouble ^)) 00:40:56 yay 00:40:59 congratulations 00:59:42 --- join: Robert__ (~snofs@c-125a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 01:02:21 --- join: schihei (~schihei@blueice1a.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 01:15:19 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:22:08 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 01:26:00 --- quit: Serg () 01:34:56 --- nick: Robert__ -> Robert 02:04:17 --- quit: ayrnieu (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:17:20 --- join: ayrnieu (~julian@205.241.56.30) joined #forth 03:19:28 --- nick: ayrnieu -> cleverdra 03:33:54 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 04:02:18 --- quit: Serg () 04:06:14 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 05:04:44 --- quit: hovil ("Leaving") 05:07:29 --- join: oooo___ (o@virgo.bombsquad.org) joined #forth 05:07:55 --- quit: oooo__ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:21:34 serg what dns problem ? 05:21:43 you finish writing the resolver in isforth ??? :) 05:21:56 oh he left :/ 05:21:59 doh :) 05:25:49 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 05:28:36 serg what dns problems ? 05:28:47 did you finish the resolver code in isforth ? :) 05:30:34 well i gotta get movin... 05:30:38 --- quit: I440r ("work -->") 05:41:03 --- quit: Serg () 05:45:51 --- join: schihei (~schihei@blueice1a.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 05:56:33 --- join: I440r (~mark4@saturn.vcsd.com) joined #forth 06:24:01 --- quit: cleverdra (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:32:20 --- join: cleverdra (~julian@205.241.56.30) joined #forth 07:16:13 * arke is away: schoool 07:49:53 are there any forth interpreters/compilers that you can boot into for x86? 08:04:47 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-167-228.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 08:05:21 MysticOne, colorforth 08:07:23 it can be booted with no prior operating system? 08:08:26 Enth/flux, too. 08:08:40 Which is like a colorforth, that actually boots. 08:09:05 hehehe 08:09:24 I would assume neither of these environments has any sort of drivers ... 08:11:31 I have some small, embedded systems that I want to try something with ... 08:11:44 they're currently running Linux, but have extremely poor network performance 08:11:56 kc5tja seems to think it's just the fact that Linux has lots of overhead for networking 08:12:06 so I wanna see if I can get a really minimal forth system on it and try with that 08:17:27 Robert: URL for Enth/flux? 08:27:30 www.google.com 08:28:12 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:31:03 well, I found many references to it 08:31:06 but no sites for it :) 08:31:37 oooh wait... may have found it! 08:31:49 :) 08:32:12 robert.zizi.org/f.html <-- There's my self-hosted Forth btw. 08:32:26 Not as fancy (and well-designed :) as others, but it boots. 08:33:22 do you know if any of them have support for networking? 08:33:34 I'm not sure what all they do ... or, if they're empty shells waiting to be filled with stuff :) 08:33:41 --- join: KOHTPA (~asau@158.250.48.196) joined #forth 08:33:52 Dobryjj vecher! 08:34:26 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.196) joined #forth 08:34:27 Privet, assau :) 08:34:34 Oh, it was asau 08:34:49 --- part: KOHTPA left #forth 08:35:07 Privet, Robert! 08:35:23 chuck moore's cf supports UDP 08:35:49 Herkamire: well, looking for something that will support the network cards that I have :) 08:35:53 s/card/interface 08:36:34 MysticOne: yeah, that would be nice 08:37:13 because I bet this thing will scream if I'm not using Linux on it :) 08:37:28 :) 08:37:48 but it's not much use if I can't actually use it :) 08:38:01 yup yup 08:38:30 I would assume that Chuck Moore would encourage me to write drivers for my network interfaces 08:38:32 we need to team some people together and flush out a forth system 08:38:33 :) 08:39:25 I just don't know if there's enough people that agree on how it should work... 08:39:38 hehehe 08:39:57 there are people working on chuck's cf 08:40:17 I just want to be able to test this thing ... 08:40:34 to find out if I take out all the Linux overhead, if the networking performance is much better 08:40:46 :) 08:40:51 I want good graphics performance 08:41:11 this is embedded 08:41:14 I don't care about graphics 08:41:17 I don't have a graphics card 08:41:17 :) 08:43:54 rj_cf on ircnet is working on adding virtual terminals and telnet to chuck's cf 08:44:10 hmmm 08:44:14 a terminal emulator has already been written 08:44:32 he's working on a multitasker now 08:44:57 then he'll do the TCP stack 08:45:50 may need to wait for that 08:45:54 or attempt to learn and roll my own 08:46:01 though I'm probably a bit too n00b to do that 08:46:28 I've never done drivers 08:46:57 might be able to port the Linux ones 08:47:11 but I expect I'll have to reverse engineer some unix drivers to get my system running well 08:47:15 yeah 08:47:33 linux is such a #*&$ mess 08:47:34 man ... fountain coke is so much better than can coke 08:47:37 yep 08:47:42 well, I have a 133MHz system here ... 08:47:47 and on a 10/100 card, it can't do more than 20mbps 08:47:49 wtf is up with that? 08:47:50 Lorem Ipsum! 08:47:56 kc5tja thinks it's Linux's fault 08:47:56 Dolor sit amet! 08:47:58 and I think it is too 08:48:14 probably is 08:48:25 Herkamire: that's why Iw anted to go as lean as possible ... 08:48:49 you would think the thing would scream 08:48:55 with such a minimal installation of Linux on it 08:48:56 but it doesn't 08:52:50 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 08:54:06 --- quit: fridge (Remote closed the connection) 09:03:02 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 09:05:13 yeah, I'm starting to think of linux as a lumbering hulk 09:06:23 I think it is in a lot of ways :( 09:06:32 especially when you don't need most of it 09:12:47 maybe I could accept it being slow if it didn't crash. 09:12:58 but the fact is that I still have to reboot sometimes 09:55:49 anyone know of any easy way to test the memory bandwidth in Linux? 09:57:02 like something I can do to get roughly the speed of the RAM 09:57:09 to see if that's my bottleneck 09:57:50 no idea 09:58:07 hmmmm... 10:09:31 a = malloc(100MB); memcpy(a + 50MB, a, 50MB); memcpy(a + 50MB, a, 50MB); memcpy(a + 50MB, a, 50MB); memcpy(a + 50MB, a, 50MB); 10:17:35 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 10:22:05 in C? 10:26:32 MysticOne: yeah. the memcpy routine should be pretty well optomized 10:27:38 (shouldn't do much else besides copy) 10:27:47 or you could write an asm routine that just fetches 10:33:40 * MysticOne doesn't know asm :( 10:33:42 and barely any C 10:33:43 I'm a n00b 11:17:21 MysticOne: I see. you have x86 I presume? 11:17:25 yeah 11:33:45 --- join: cleverdr1 (~julian@205.241.56.30) joined #forth 11:52:21 --- quit: cleverdra (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 11:59:15 --- quit: cleverdr1 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:02:46 --- join: ayrnieu (~julian@206.61.132.159) joined #forth 12:05:57 does the ans std hae anything to say about ( comments spanning multiple lines? 12:06:06 or should it be to the following ) or eol ? 12:07:00 not that I recall, but implementations certainly have limitations in this regard. 12:07:28 well i need to know specifically what ans says on this heh 12:07:30 gforth, for instance, treats every line like its own block, so parsing words can't ever parse over a linebreak. 12:07:47 that woulde be correct 12:07:55 but Forths with source in blocks (including gforth) treat each block like its own... block =) 12:07:57 bl word should also terminate on end of line 12:08:05 so that parsing words can't ever parse beyond a block. 12:08:51 With your mmap-entire-file I'd imagine that you'd have 'treat entire source file as one large block' functionality so far as parsing words cared. 12:09:41 and you can still get line-parsing words (such as \ ) with 10 PARSE 12:10:47 : \ 10 parse 2drop ; 12:11:08 : ( ')' parse 2drop ; 12:11:23 but ( will not span multiple lines in isforth 12:11:26 nor should it 12:11:35 in fact i dont support multi line comments, they are dangerous 12:22:32 --- join: rO| (rO_@pD9EE14D7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 12:50:49 --- join: Speuler (~User@node-d-9180.a2000.nl) joined #forth 12:51:17 'morning 13:02:38 tach speuler 13:05:27 what's the difference between PARSE and WORD? 13:06:09 are there any forth environments that are bootable *and* have serial i/o for a serial console? 13:06:26 MysticOne: chuck's CF 13:06:54 so if I boot it and have no VGA, but I do have a serial port, I can see it on the serial console? 13:07:10 oh, it doesn't do that. I missunderstood 13:08:16 I need something that I can boot like that :) 13:08:25 (small, small system) 13:08:32 MysticOne, x86 ? 13:09:05 Speuler: yes 13:10:18 MysticOne, pity my forth for 386+ is too hardware specific (not for pc-compatibles) 13:10:30 Speuler: :( 13:10:36 Speuler: here's what I want ... 13:10:43 MysticOne, does not expect bios ... 13:10:43 I'm trying to figure out how to push this hardware to its limits ... 13:10:47 and I don't think Linux can do this 13:10:57 this has a BIOS, but it's a very, very minimalist one 13:11:14 MysticOne, at least it initializes your on-board components 13:11:29 probably I guess ... there's not much :) 13:11:32 MysticOne, like hostbridge, dram etc 13:12:08 MysticOne, that's already where the hardware dependencies of my 386 forth start 13:13:32 MysticOne, there was eforth as bios-extension on video card (instead of vga bios) around once 13:14:15 MysticOne, but htere don't tend to be rs232 on video cards :) 13:15:45 but once it runs, getting rs232 port support running shouldn't be too difficult 13:23:54 --- quit: MysticOne (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:09 --- join: MysticOne (mysticone@mysticone.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 13:28:44 so when booting colorforth ... 13:28:47 does it *have* to be on a floppy? 13:31:31 because they dont have it on a hard drive yet :P 13:31:51 no, because I don't have a floppy drive 13:32:41 putting it on a compactflash card 13:32:53 but, doesn't work ... so, not sure if a floppy is required or not 13:35:29 so anyone successfully booted it without a floppy? 13:36:03 MysticOne: not that I know of, I think it's hardcoded with floppy drivers 13:36:54 okay 13:36:58 well, food time :) 14:53:57 mooooo 15:07:12 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 16:03:07 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@207.111.96.94) joined #forth 16:03:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 16:03:28 hiya all 16:06:11 Hey TheBlueWizard :) 16:06:59 moi 16:07:09 http://www.bash.org/?11604 < cookiing guru 16:07:27 seen ree lately? 16:07:27 hiya Robert 16:07:32 terve mur 16:09:50 mur: lol re: cooking ramen 16:15:59 --- join: I440r (~mark4@12-160.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth 16:17:46 hiya I440r :) 16:18:36 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-67-113-235-107.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 16:18:41 hi :) 16:18:54 hi 16:18:59 TheBlueWizard: oletko kokenut mitään jännittävää viimeaikoina? 16:19:08 hiya Sonarman 16:19:39 * TheBlueWizard goes for dictionary :P 16:19:52 Privet! 16:19:59 !! 16:20:02 salut asau 16:20:13 lol 16:20:17 hi I440r + --- ... --- Sonarman 16:20:21 speak forth :P 16:20:46 OSO ? 16:21:07 OSO safe 16:22:01 arke warpzero thru: hi 16:31:59 mur: hmm...joo...lisäin 32 Meg RAM minuun vanhaan tietokoneen...nyt 64 Meg kokonaan :) 16:32:34 : 16:32:36 :) 16:32:55 usually kokemus is some kind of unforgettable experience 16:33:05 not any ocasion :) 16:33:05 I hope I formed the sentence right...was a bit tricky 16:33:19 * mur knows it was tricky >:) 16:35:26 hmm...the dictionary simply translates kokemus as experience, without mentioning the "unforgettable" angle...then again, you know how bilingual dictionaries are...so damn light on semantics :/ 16:36:34 * TheBlueWizard thinks he can get more RAM chips for his old computer next week, and if so, I would have 96 Meg RAM total :) 16:38:29 eh 16:38:37 it is not unforgettable experience 16:38:43 i meant it for how it is more like used 16:38:51 lol 16:39:06 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 16:39:14 hmm...well, I don't have any "unforgettable" experience recently 16:47:04 mur: kylmää tässä (it is cold here)....cold snap hit here :P 16:47:43 täällä 16:48:13 * TheBlueWizard smiles and nods 16:51:52 how do you say "cold snap" in Finnish? 16:54:04 i need a finnish translation of that before i can answer ;) 16:54:20 i dont understand 16:55:34 ah...a cold snap is a sudden, very chilly weather....it is similar to heat wave, only that the temperature drops by 10 or more degrees lower than usual 16:56:51 halla? 16:57:12 does you dictionary have word halla? 16:57:48 I looked it up, and it translated it as frost...nope, not that one 16:59:37 kylmä viima? :) 16:59:40 hmm 16:59:55 * mur does not know 17:00:05 is it short time or longer time? 17:00:17 minutes, hours, day, days or weeks? 17:00:59 oh, a cold snap typically lasts for a few days 17:02:29 there are several colorful phrase we Americans use, depending on where the chilly air comes from: Siberian Express, um....couldn't think of others right off my head :P 17:10:50 --- join: blockhead (default@dialin-694-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 17:13:30 well, gotta go....bye all 17:13:44 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 17:21:08 --- quit: warpzero (Excess Flood) 17:22:04 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 17:26:49 anyone here happen to notice if anyone called sidney came in here or not ? 17:26:56 possibly bex or bexy 17:27:13 she is a LONG TIME irc friend who got married recently 17:27:41 --- quit: blockhead ("Client Exiting") 17:31:21 I440r - she hasn't shown up since you last left. 17:32:15 has she been in here at all ? 17:36:06 --- join: Robert__ (~snofs@c-b75a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 17:41:55 if she shows up tell her im gona be RIGHT basck 17:41:57 back even 17:42:03 i gotta go to the store for coffee 17:42:11 and BEHAVE if she does come in, she's married :P 17:44:03 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 17:44:03 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 17:47:02 * arke is back (gone 10:30:52) 17:47:08 hi kc5tja 17:47:16 re 17:47:29 ^_^ 17:47:47 I'm tired. 17:47:57 Had a really bad day at work today. 17:48:04 :( 17:48:06 Not bad in the sense that I did anything wrong, or got yelled at, or ... 17:48:08 thats not good. 17:48:21 Oh, one of those sudden-swing ones? 17:48:35 But bad in the sense that more than half our employees called in sick, and it is one of the busiest days of the week, and we didn't have adequate replacements for the sick employees. 17:48:41 So we were really snowed under today. :( 17:49:00 ugh :( 17:49:33 They're starting to train me on french fries already. 17:49:55 --- quit: Robert (No route to host) 17:49:56 wow, that took them a long time ... i learned fries the first day 17:50:05 No no. 17:50:07 INO isn't McDonalds. 17:50:11 but then again, you guys make the fries from potatoes, we have them in bags ^___^ 17:50:15 Walk into any INO and watch the fry-guy. 17:50:21 Yeah, I know. 17:51:07 He has to manage 8 baskets of fries, time them, make sure the oil temperature is right, the level is filled properly, the fries are cooked just right, that PCFs aren't used, sometimes he has to fill in for the counter hand-out, and other times he makes shakes and other administravia. 17:51:25 PCF? 17:51:30 Pre-cooked Fries. 17:51:37 yeah, the INO fry guy has lots to do... 17:51:38 Each basket makes four fry-boats. 17:51:51 If you have extra left over, they go into the PCF bin. 17:52:03 (Unless you can actually fill another fry boat, but that's very rare). 17:52:13 hehe 17:52:16 we just use the PCF. 17:52:22 if they're warm, we use them. 17:52:28 So do we, but we can re-cook them only once. 17:53:12 If they're not sold by the second time around, they get chucked. 17:53:18 we have pre made fries, we have an automatic machine to fill the baskets with the right amount, and the oil thingies have built in timers that are based on the oil temperature, and they also keep themselves at the right heat. 17:53:54 In-N-Out has that human touch. 17:54:01 Which I, frankly, appreciate. 17:54:04 Yes :) 17:54:13 --- quit: qFox ("if at first you dont succeed, quit again") 17:54:18 At least the burgers are a little more human like.. 17:54:32 * kc5tja is rotflmfo! 17:54:53 Are you saying we sell human meat patties? :D 17:55:06 you get the preshaped patties, put them on the grill, then you take the top thing down, which cooks both sides and lifts after the right time 17:55:07 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-67-113-235-251.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 17:55:09 kc5tja: lollollollol 17:55:12 what parts of the humon go into the patties? 17:55:13 Sonarman: #ypn_ot 17:55:21 also, human. 17:55:52 kc5tja: you get the buns, then you put the sauces on there, using special right-amount squirt guns 17:55:52 arke: Yeah, we actually have to flip our burgers. :D 17:55:58 kc5tja: :) 17:56:18 * arke takes as example a generic cheeseburger 17:56:21 take a patty 17:56:26 one shot of ketchup 17:56:29 one shot of mustard 17:56:41 one pinch of minced onions 17:56:44 one pickle 17:56:47 one slice of cheese 17:56:49 oh, crap! have all the clog logs from 2003 been deleted? 17:56:50 one piece of meet 17:56:53 Dude, you guys have skimpy pickles. 17:57:00 Sonarman: no, there in old/ 17:57:03 We load our burgers with 4 pickles (if the customer asks for them). 17:57:06 kc5tja: I know...lol 17:57:22 kc5tja: at least the double CB gets 2 lol 17:57:28 :) 17:57:37 Too bad you don't have mustard-fried burgers. 17:57:45 arke: g'd'oh. thanks :) 17:57:51 Sonarman: :) 17:58:43 Mustard-fried is the bomb, with whole-grilled onions, chopped grilled onions, lettuce, and tomato...MMMmmmm.... 17:58:48 Making me hungry all over again. :) 17:58:52 :) 17:59:01 * arke sometimes makes his own free-meal burger 17:59:11 as long as the managers don't see it, lol 17:59:44 Heh 18:00:00 i got the bun, i put double the amount of ketchup, mustard, mayo 18:00:01 hopefully the managers have enough sense to allow for such things. 18:00:11 3 (!) slices of cheese, no pickles, double onions 18:00:20 and 2 slices of meat 18:00:31 on the big and tasty, that is, which only has one 18:00:38 oh, and of course, 2 tomatoes instead of one 18:01:52 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 18:02:18 ayrnieu: They won't because the store pays for everything. 18:02:54 ayrnieu: Frankly, I'm surprised that he hasn't been caught yet. :) 18:03:27 because I'm sneaky 18:03:49 sometimes, we have left over stuff, and I take it and hide it and eat it when i go downstairs to get a box of fries or such. 18:04:01 in fact, everytime I do, i usually grab a piece of cookie dough 18:04:23 Though our managers ask us what we want for lunch, and I just write it down for them. DblDbl whGR P GR M LIGHT L LIGHT T only :) 18:04:24 hehe 18:04:24 Oops, I forgot the mfd in there too -- Mustard-fried. :D 18:06:06 lets see 18:06:08 double double 18:06:11 whGR? 18:06:13 P? 18:06:15 GR? 18:06:16 M? 18:06:20 Light L? 18:06:25 just explain it ^_^ 18:06:27 * ayrnieu flees. 18:07:45 Double-double, whole-grilled onion, mustard-fried (I forgot to put mfd in the list, so I'll do it now), no pickles, with chopped grilled onions, mustard, light lettuce, light tomato, only. 18:09:06 so just a P means no pickles, while just an M means yes mustard? 18:12:50 Sonarman: Normally, P means WITH pickles. But I forgot to list "mfd," which normally includes pickles anyway (why? Don't ask. *I* certainly don't know why). So listing P after mfd means no pickles. 18:13:39 ok, thanks. i finally learned something today :) 18:14:23 er, forget what i just said 18:14:36 i learned other things too (but nothing as important ;) ) 18:17:24 :) 18:18:21 sorry, i didn't think that would ping everyone in the channel, i thought it would just ping the irc server 18:21:11 Heh :) 18:21:45 i'll just ping chanserv next time :) 18:22:18 or just do a WHOIS on someone 18:22:22 unless... HEY SKYLAN GET A FASTER CONNECTION YOUR PING REPLY SUCKED 18:22:54 i gave him valuable information, which he wouldn't have gotten if i hadn't made my mistake 18:23:00 lol 18:24:09 ayrnieu: yeah good idea, both of them work just fine for what i was doing: testing my connection, and at least /whois doesn't piss off RTFM-saying uber-elitists like ping does 18:24:32 sonar - indeed, /whois wouldn't piss me off -- you jerk. 18:24:54 stfu noob 18:25:25 if you're using a GUI for apt-get you do not belong in this channel 18:25:51 (pretending to be a #debian jerk) 18:26:42 actually i should just shut up :) 18:27:11 :) 18:42:51 anyone know maddox's site? 18:43:02 well, HAHAHA http://bash.org/?203247 18:43:03 Who or what is maddox? 18:43:18 http://maddox.xmission.com 18:43:34 Sonarman: :p 19:05:34 --- quit: ayrnieu ("grr.") 19:20:53 --- join: ayrnieu (~julian@206.61.132.159) joined #forth 19:23:06 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:23:35 DblDbl whGR P GR M LIGHT L LIGHT T only 19:23:41 Looks like it could be Forth 19:24:10 :) 19:25:27 :) 19:26:41 For some suitable definitions of DblDbl, whGR, P, GR, M, LIGHT, L, T, and only, it is perfectly valid Forth. :) But then, so is this entire sentence. :D 19:27:20 : dbldbl 0 parse 2drop s" nethack" system ; 19:28:00 the following is valid forth: 19:28:04 I hate Forth. 19:28:08 that could be valid forth :P 19:28:17 (I dont hate forth, just saying) 19:29:22 Heh! 19:29:48 I'd love to see the automated robot burger cook that that Forth sentence operated. 19:31:31 Yeah 19:31:34 major coolness 19:31:44 DblDbl whGR P GR M LIGHT L LIGHT T only MAKE 19:31:57 : 0 parse [silliness] >buffer ; 19:32:39 : punch ( person target ) swap fist@ swap head@ punch ; 19:32:49 arke ayrnieu punch 19:32:51 ^_^ 19:37:12 that'll just recurse infinitely 19:37:35 Not in ANSI Forth. :) 19:37:54 You'd need punch defined previously. 19:37:55 : punch ( person target ) swap fist@ swap head@ ! recurse ; 20:29:11 --- quit: Speuler ("Leaving") 21:14:57 Sonarman: Good grief. That is the most hilariously funny website I've ever read. 21:15:28 which one? 21:15:39 Open Source: "Don't like it? Fix it. Patch not accepted? Branch." <--- what do you guys think about this? 21:16:02 I think that's the right thing to do. Why do you ask? 21:16:14 * kc5tja points to XEmacs vs GNU Emacs. 21:17:40 Well, I'm in a pretty bad situation right now. 21:18:05 I decided that I would ask of opinions, and if they said I should, then I would branch that one project thats just not getting anywhere. 21:18:10 The problem is 21:18:14 its my friend's project. 21:18:27 He keeps messing up, and keeps starting new codebases, not getting anywhere 21:18:29 The site was http://maddox.xmission.com -- WARNING: it's a page full of diatribe, rants, argumentation, insults, rude language, and horrifying perspectives on the world. I absolutely DO NOT agree with Maddox on, oh, I'd say pretty much everything. But if you read it in the same context as, say, George Carlin or Chris Rock, it's *hilarious.* He should be on stage and in comedy clubs. 21:18:57 and he's not letting anyone help except for some C++ n00b (although the project is C!) 21:19:03 I LOVE GEORGE CARLIN 21:19:17 * kc5tja loves Carlin and Rock. They're awesome. 21:19:43 Yeah. 21:19:50 but what do you think about my current situation? 21:19:55 I know it would piss him off. 21:20:13 I think I would make the better code too, if I actually stopped procrastinating and wrote the code. 21:21:02 I don't know what your situation is, exactly. But if it's something you care about, I would approach said friend, and say, "Hey look, either A B and C happens, or I branch, and do things myself." 21:21:05 I don't like waffling. 21:21:30 I don't like holding a hot potato either. At work, I try to push as much bullshit onto my manager, so that I can concentrate on myw ork. 21:22:00 I don't like it when the cooks complain that I'm too slow at the pay window. Everytime they do, I get my manager, and say, "Watch," and when he approves of what I do, I say, "Good, now tell the cooks to shut up so I can do my job." 21:22:55 Hrm 21:22:58 the problem here is 21:23:03 If I were to approach him like that 21:23:06 He wouldn't care. 21:23:17 He wouldn't think I'd actally branch, or even produce much code. 21:23:37 That's when I'd prove him wrong. :D 21:23:45 But this is just me. 21:23:52 and/or he'd just laugh it off, saying that once the new codebase is there, its gonna be supoerior 21:23:54 I can be such an asshole sometimes. :) 21:24:01 exactly the same thing he said for the previous one. 21:24:14 Well, I'm collecting opinions on whether to be an asshole or not :) 21:24:25 Seven sixteenths of one inch <---- lol 21:24:29 I mean, I'd certainly have tact. 21:24:50 But when push comes to shove, if it's open source, he has no fscking right to stop you from branching his code. 21:25:21 I could branch Linux tomorrow if I wanted to. 21:25:36 Heck, FS/Forth is virtually wholly inspired by ColorForth, and CHuck can't do a thing about it. 21:25:51 Neither can Frank Seargant for trying to base my environment on Pygmy. 21:27:02 I know I could, but I don't know if I should be an asshole or good boy. 21:27:09 I got many forces here. 21:27:25 I do get pushed around by his friends sometimes (on the net, not RL). 21:27:35 which gets rather annoying, because he doesn't do anything about it. 21:28:10 but he taught me C and Linux and lots of other stuff. 21:30:36 I mean, he taught me about the GPL and the concepts of open source, and all that. 21:30:50 Now should I take that which he himself has taught me, and turn it against him? 21:30:56 I REALLY don't know what to do here. 21:32:22 I don't see how branching can "turn it against him." 21:32:31 Especially if you respect his licensing terms. 21:32:48