00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.12.26 00:59:24 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 01:00:59 --- quit: networm_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:55:30 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 04:08:20 * chrisrw is away: zZzZ 04:48:44 --- quit: Serg () 05:58:38 --- join: networm (~networm@L0662P11.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 06:07:11 --- quit: qFox (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 06:37:50 morning 06:46:19 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 06:51:51 --- quit: Serg () 07:40:01 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD9E5CE7D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 08:32:00 --- join: qFox (~C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 09:29:42 --- join: schihei_ (~schihei@p5085D7FB.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 09:33:52 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 09:33:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 09:34:44 hey kc 09:34:48 Howdy 09:35:00 * kc5tja wrote a line-based block editor today -- took less than 30 minutes in Forth. 09:35:07 awesome 09:35:16 The whole thing fits in one block of source too. 09:35:34 that's awesome 09:35:35 can I see? 09:35:38 gforth compiles the whole editor to a monsterous 848 bytes. 09:35:40 Whoa... 09:36:00 8 list Screen 8 not modified 09:36:00 0 ( Line-based Block Editor ) empty 09:36:00 1 variable blk 09:36:00 2 : pad here 64 32 fill ; 09:36:00 3 : ed page dup list blk ! ; 09:36:01 4 : to 64 * blk @ block + update ; 09:36:03 5 : frm tib >in @ + ; 09:36:05 6 : howmuch #tib @ >in @ - 64 min ; 09:36:07 7 : done #tib @ >in ! ; 09:36:09 8 : prep pad frm here howmuch move ; 09:36:11 9 : r prep to here swap 64 move done ; 09:36:13 10 : left blk @ block 1024 + over - ; 09:36:17 11 : z to pad here swap 64 move ; 09:36:19 12 : o dup to dup 64 + left move z ; 09:36:21 13 : i dup o r ; 09:36:23 14 : d to dup 64 + left >r swap r> move 15 z ; 09:36:25 15 09:36:36 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 09:36:44 There is no defined 'entry point' for the editor, because none really exists. 09:37:00 You use ed to set the current block for editing purposes. It also displays the block. 09:37:23 Then you use r to replace one line of text in the block. For example, if I wanted to change the comment on block 8, I'd type this: 09:37:26 8 ed 09:37:38 0 r ( Nifty Block Editor ) empty 09:37:57 where 0 refers to the line number, r is the "replace" command, and the text that follows is the text that gets put in. 09:38:17 Moo. 09:38:26 z is used to fill a line with blanks (it 'zeros out' a line). 09:39:07 o opens a line -- basically inserts a blank line between two other lines. Do not use 15 o, however, or else it'll overwrite memory (no more than 64 bytes after the end of the block buffer, but still) 09:39:10 :) 09:39:29 i as you can see is just a shortcut for o followed immediately by r -- e.g., it inserts a line of text between two other lines. 09:39:49 And finally, as you might imagine, d deletes a line of text. 09:40:00 neat :) 09:40:25 It's pretty ANSI Forth specific though, making use of ANSI-defined variables and buffers. 09:40:40 The FS/Forth specific version will probaby look a little bit differently. But the core commands will be the same. 09:40:41 how far did you get between last night when you left and right now? 09:40:51 ?? 09:40:55 I went to bed when I left last night. 09:40:59 on FS/Forth 09:40:59 that's awesome :) 09:41:26 yeah, and did you do anything else except for the editor this morning? :)) 09:41:44 MysticOne: I'll leave it as an exercise to you to figure out how, exactly, it works. I think it'd be a good exercise for you. It is not terribly advanced code, but it is advanced concepts. 09:42:09 kc5tja: e-mail it to me so I can see it later? 09:42:11 since I'm at work now :) 09:42:32 No. I just wrote the editor because (a) I wanted to try a Moore-style line editor, and (b) I realized that to implement KEY in FS/Forth, I need to set the terminal all funkadelic-like. I don't want to do that this early in the game, so I'm going to just stick with line-only input mode. 09:42:45 MysticOne: This channel is logged by clog. 09:42:55 I have logs too, actually 09:43:00 I hsould be able to get it back out later 09:43:40 Just in case though, I'll send it via e-mail. 09:43:59 thanks!!! :) 09:45:48 Also included is the shadow documentation on it. 09:46:57 me too please :) 09:47:03 chrisrw: no! it was xmas present for me! 09:47:10 ...:( 09:47:21 * kc5tja watches the ensuing battle. 09:47:32 hehehe 09:48:37 Done. 09:48:45 I love the fact that you guys are fighting over kc5tja's 10-second editor. 09:49:00 :) 09:49:42 Personally I'd rather just have kc5tja than his editor. 09:49:54 I'm touched. 09:50:01 :P lol 09:50:51 hmmm... 09:50:55 * MysticOne doesn't touch that one 09:51:43 hrm, i guess that was the wrong smiley heh :) 09:52:10 All I know is I ain't belonging to noone here, so y'all are on your own. :) 09:52:16 awwww 09:52:25 * MysticOne eats the box of heart shaped candy :( 09:53:18 * warpzero feels rejected. 09:53:47 :( 09:54:13 I'm an equal opportunity offender. 09:57:14 At any rate, I need to get to work here. 09:57:56 :) 09:57:59 er 09:58:02 no, not a smiley 09:58:08 im not happy that you're leaving. 09:58:10 :)) 10:01:15 Heheh 10:01:23 Well, I'm not at all happy that I have to work today at all. 10:02:13 The only substantial benefit for working today is that I get paid time and a half because of the holidays for today. 10:02:16 Big freakin' deal. 10:02:25 I'd rather have the time off for some R&R. 10:02:29 Anyway, 73s. 10:02:39 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 10:32:26 --- quit: warpzero (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:32:32 --- quit: networm (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 10:36:29 --- join: warpzero (~warpzero@id-cralid-cuda1a-49-38.losaca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:46:43 --- quit: schihei_ (Client Quit) 10:53:12 --- join: networm (~networm@L0664P13.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 10:57:50 --- quit: chrisrw (Remote closed the connection) 10:59:24 --- join: chrisrw (~chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-099-104.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 11:00:38 --- nick: MrGone -> MrReach 11:00:59 hihi 11:01:14 Moo. 11:01:37 NOT FUNNY BACK OFF BACK OF 11:01:54 huh? 11:02:39 Moo? 11:02:52 Do virgins taste better than those who are not? 11:02:52 Are they salty, or sweeter, more juicy or what? 11:02:52 Do you savor them slowly? Gulp them down on the spot? 11:02:52 Do virgins taste better than those who are not? 11:04:39 lol 11:05:27 Sex poetry++; 11:05:40 boobies++ 11:05:41 boobies++ 11:05:41 boobies++ 11:06:30 it's a filch song, The Brobdingnagian Bards 11:07:10 about a dragon the village is trying to get rid of 11:08:23 well, shit, Beagle2 isn't sending a signal from the surface lander 11:18:40 --- quit: chrisrw (Remote closed the connection) 11:19:54 --- join: chrisrw (~chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-099-104.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 12:57:38 * warpzero is away: Foodstuffs. 13:00:21 Moo. 13:07:51 * warpzero is back (gone 00:10:11) 13:13:35 MrReach: proving once and for all that it's not only Americans who screw up expensive spacecraft :) 13:15:56 screwing up is a human trait, not just a given nationality/ethnic/race group. 13:18:01 wUoNrFk: yeah, but since we're usually the only ones with spacecraft... they like to think it's us :) 13:37:25 has anyone yet to see the ISS with the naked eye yet ? 13:37:43 i've heard it was possible a year or two ago... 13:47:50 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 13:59:57 how do you print text in color? 14:00:02 if possible at all.. 14:00:15 what OS??? 14:00:20 Its just some escape sequence that the terminal eats... 14:00:27 win 14:00:51 it would be a function of the device context 14:01:03 does that mean yes? :) 14:01:27 but by the reply i'll take it there's no simple solution to it... 14:01:32 yep, windows was famous for unifying the ability to print on color printers 14:01:51 uhm 14:01:59 windows treats printers as a display device. 14:02:05 lol 14:02:09 yep 14:02:11 as such, it's up to the underlying drivers to figure out how to translate stuff. 14:02:29 postscript is a much nicer (albeit more expensive) solution. 14:02:40 ok, then let me refrase, how can i change text color with win32forth? :) 14:03:00 is there a simple way, or will i ahve to do more twisting then i can atm... 14:03:06 i've got a $200 multitplexing laser printer ... but it's a windows only printer... it doesn't even know what a font is, nor what text is. 14:03:22 price is relative 14:03:33 wUoNrFk: is it postscript??? 14:03:40 mrreach: lol. no. 14:03:40 means nothing basicly, unless you state a date with it ;) 14:04:02 qfox: $200 for a multiplexing laser printer is still a decent price. 14:04:05 arg! most printers can work from linux ... with flawless postscript emulation 14:04:07 and about 'rock bottom cheapest' 14:04:28 mrreach: yea.. well.. as i said, it's a windows only printer. nor does it understand what text is, nor what a font is, etc. 14:04:40 well i've been thinking about a project that i can do in forth, and wanna try to create the "set game" 14:04:49 that's the way I'm set up here ... cheapo Samsung laser printer driven by linux and shared on the network 14:04:50 but it'll be easy if i can use colors for that 14:04:51 the windows GDI drivers for the printer talk a custom protocol to the printer (prolly just send it raw bitmap data) 14:05:03 I have a used LaserJet 4e. 14:05:06 set game> http://www.reed.edu/~mcphailb/applets/set/ 14:05:07 It rocks. 14:05:20 qfox: are you doing it in the win32 console, or as a dos mode application ? 14:05:34 i've got an okipage 8w... it's alright. 14:05:48 win32 14:06:04 win32forth 14:09:00 hm, on that note, whats the randomizer in forth? 14:09:03 :) 14:10:57 I always use fopen("/dev/urandom"); 14:11:06 that wont work on windows :p 14:11:20 which forth? 14:11:21 Nothing really does. 14:11:57 for win32for ... 14:11:59 : RANDOM-INIT ( -- ) \ initialize the random number generator 14:11:59 get-local-time 14:11:59 time-buf 3 cells + @ to SEED1 14:11:59 time-buf 2 cells + @ to SEED2 14:11:59 time-buf 1 cells + @ to SEED3 ; 14:12:22 it would appear that the system clock is used for randomization 14:12:32 not unusual. 14:12:42 nop 14:12:47 at least, seeding an RNG with the current time is quite common 14:12:56 Not cryptographically safe either. 14:13:09 no, but if you're writing a game it doesn't particularly matter :) 14:13:19 not really no 14:13:31 just needed to draw the cards 14:13:32 --- nick: chrisrw -> MrsMoo 14:13:54 hm 14:13:57 gambling ? :) 14:14:09 at least he's only writing a for fun game 14:14:12 --- nick: MrsMoo -> GrampaMoo 14:14:14 no, that set game i just pasted 14:14:17 would have to hurt him if it was for a true gambling game :) 14:14:18 http://www.reed.edu/~mcphailb/applets/set/ 14:14:53 its a cool game 14:14:57 well, one i like :) 14:16:12 --- nick: GrampaMoo -> chrisrw 14:17:28 and i dont htink its hard to create, although it wont be "pretty" 14:17:40 just create an array, create the cardset, and deal the cards in random order 14:17:50 plain and simple, i'd say a perfect project to get me started 14:18:21 wha does this have to do with printing??? 14:19:07 printing was a side topic 14:19:15 aye, printing colors would make it easier 14:19:19 more userfriendly 14:19:26 Color (Red, Green, or Purple) 14:19:26 Shape (Circle, Diamond, or Squiggle) 14:19:26 Number (One, Two, or Three) 14:19:26 Shading (Filled, Striped, or Empty) 14:19:32 thats the 4 combinations of a card 14:19:39 hm 14:19:46 oh, I thought you meant printing on a printer 14:19:51 read on the website... Color (Red, Green, or Purple) 14:19:51 Shape (Circle, Diamond, or Squiggle) 14:19:51 Number (One, Two, or Three) 14:19:51 Shading (Filled, Striped, or Empty) 14:19:52 eh 14:19:53 not screen display 14:19:56 http://www.reed.edu/~mcphailb/applets/set/ 14:19:57 read it... 14:20:02 I did 14:20:06 yea i meant screen, sorry 14:20:13 just while printing, echoing text 14:21:14 I would use .gif images from disk, mayself, layed into a display grid 14:21:16 hmmm so how do i get a random number? :) 14:21:23 no thats beyond my doing atm 14:21:46 oh wait, it doesnt return an error with an empty stack 14:21:59 : RANDOM ( n1 -- n2 ) \ get a pseudo random number between 0 and n1 as n2 14:22:15 yea but it doesnt return underrun error if the stack is empty : 14:22:16 :) 14:22:24 : RANDOM DUP 0= 14:22:24 IF 1+ 14:22:24 THEN SEED1 lit "0xB1" /MOD 2* SWAP lit "0xAB" 14:22:24 * SWAP - DUP TO SEED1 SEED2 lit "0xB0" /MOD lit "0x23" 14:22:24 * SWAP lit "0xAC" * SWAP - DUP TO SEED2 SEED3 lit "0xB2" 14:22:25 /MOD lit "0x3F" * SWAP lit "0xAA" * SWAP - DUP TO SEED3 14:22:27 + + SWAP MOD ; ok 14:22:42 so??? 14:22:49 well that confused me... nvm 14:22:49 don't give it an empty stack 14:23:15 actually, I expected the same as you did RANDOM ( -- u ) 14:24:00 well since it didnt return anything, at first i figured it was something else 14:24:23 if anyone comes up with the color answer, do tell me :) 14:24:42 .gifs are easier 14:25:27 do you have the M$ base SDK installed on your machine? 14:25:39 no, at least i dont think so :) 14:26:05 you would know if you did, it's gigantic ... 45mb if I recall 14:26:19 "gigantic", but then i guess not :) 14:26:22 you'll need it if you're gonna do any serious win32 programming 14:26:59 otherwise you're just shooting in the dark 14:27:15 well no, i cant do serious win32 programming, unfortunatly 14:27:34 erm ... why not? 14:27:42 simply because i cant... 14:27:45 i'm good at logic 14:28:03 but the windows programming part is too extended, i find it very hard to start... 14:28:05 i've tried 14:28:31 heh, have you read through the tutorials in the win32 SDK ? 14:28:41 nop 14:28:42 it's not THAT hard 14:28:56 but you know, the thing is, say someone posts a source of something. 14:29:08 in the old days you could easily load it in your compiler 14:29:15 it used to be one file, and thats it 14:29:20 at most, you'd need a header or two 14:29:34 but most commands were pretty much standard from the language 14:29:36 hm 14:29:49 but nowadays, you can hardly get any language that hasnt got a gazilion ways of doing the same thing 14:30:02 it's not the language, it's the OS 14:30:05 the price of integration, flexibility, and more options is that you have more to be concerned with. 14:30:05 i dunno :\ 14:30:20 uhm 14:30:25 maybe its the os, but windows is simply the mainstream os 14:30:32 you cant really reverse it 14:30:38 there's millions of ways to do things in assembly, just as there are in forth, c, c++, objective c, java, basic, vb, etc 14:30:47 wasn't trying to suggest you should 14:30:53 i know 14:31:03 was trying to suggest that you learn the basics 14:31:10 i know the "basics" 14:31:14 it's not really complicated 14:31:20 but never got thru the graphical part 14:31:28 and writing for XWindows is pretty much the same thing 14:31:36 i mean, i know how a windows program is built up, messages, handlers and all 14:31:41 most of any structured graphical UI stuff involves alot of simplistic copy/paste type of stuff for templating stuff. 14:32:05 thats another thing i hate, i mean if you have to copy paste, then why cant the visual aspect of the languages do it for you 14:32:12 (so far i havent been able to...) 14:32:18 well whatever 14:32:25 because you may need to change how that works 14:32:27 do i really need this to change the colors? :) 14:32:37 in forth 14:32:56 if it's a win32 console application, i don't nkow if you can just spit out ansi codes or access a virtual 'text memory' buffer area ... or if you have to call win32 console application functions. 14:33:06 placing an object and defining its characteristics are fundamental parts of any modern program 14:33:27 there's a lynx-win32 console client that has color support. maybe look at it to see if it does any specific win32 calls for color ? 14:33:55 wUoNrFk: there is a call to change color for furthor output 14:34:06 heh, it's all in the SDK 14:34:47 please note that win32forth does *NOT* use a win32 console 14:35:11 if you mean dosbox by console, then no 14:35:13 instead it uses a high-level window 14:35:33 thats the way i like it :) although i guess colors will be bitchy 14:35:42 thats why i hoped it would have some easy word for it 14:35:43 qFox: win32 has functions to open something that looks like a dosbox 14:35:45 or character 14:35:57 ya, but thats console right.. 14:36:10 hm come to think about it 14:36:13 ignore that :\ 14:36:37 i'll just go ahead and create the thing :) 14:36:41 ----------- HASHED ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 14:36:41 TIPCOLOR PRINTERLINECOLOR: REFLINECOLOR: PRINTFILLCOLOR PRINTCOLOR 14:36:41 BRUSHCOLOR: PENCOLOR: LINECOLOR: SETBKCOLOR: SETTEXTCOLOR: 14:36:42 NEWCOLOR: COLOR: UNINITCOLOR: INITCOLOR: ZEROCOLOR: 14:36:56 ----------- FORTH ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14:36:56 HATCHCOLOROBJECT NEW-COLOR EXTCOLOROBJECT COLOROBJECT ?COLORCHECK 14:36:56 .COLORS COLORS-LINK 14:37:41 .colors 14:37:41 "0x438940" "0x43270C" "0x432724" BROWN LTGRAY WHITE GRAY 14:37:41 LTCYAN CYAN LTMAGENTA MAGENTA LTYELLOW YELLOW LTBLUE BLUE LTGREEN 14:37:42 GREEN LTRED RED DKGRAY BLACK ok 14:37:50 hm 14:37:52 win32. 14:37:53 ick. 14:38:04 it's calling raw gdi stuff. 14:38:12 yep 14:38:14 o_0 tnx 14:38:15 :) 14:38:50 sorry it's so intimidating for you, qFox 14:38:59 how's that? 14:39:06 it was for me too, really, but I had to bite the bullet 14:39:22 oh right, well like i said, i'm pretty good at logic 14:39:31 but when it comes down to going really win32 its just too much 14:39:58 dont know where to start, too many functions to know etc. and if i have to press buttons to get code, where's the fun :\ 14:40:27 actually, I quite enjoy browsing through win32 documentation 14:40:35 :) 14:40:48 I often do so in my spare time, learn lots of new things 14:41:14 i tend to learn bits of languages, but never seriously get into them 14:41:21 i mean, i know the basics of asm 14:41:38 this is *NOT* a language, damnit, I keep trying to tell you that 14:41:39 ok i know quite a bit about c++ (Although in my own sloppy way) 14:41:53 * qFox chuckles 14:41:59 *ALL* languages call these functions to get things done 14:42:20 hm 14:42:27 i've written a couple projects for win32 stuff. 14:42:29 I can write the exact same stuff with C++, VB, or Win32Forth 14:42:32 i don't particularly care for it. 14:43:10 actually, neither do I when writing code 14:43:13 it's nice that they use a reference based system throughout the entire thing, and that most everything is there in it's entirety... but... there should have been something abstracted for simplicity. 14:43:42 wUoNrFk: yes, there's been several 3rd party libs to simplify things 14:43:47 it's not terribly difficult to use, but ... ew. 14:43:54 mrreach: i don't care to pay for any of them :) 14:44:03 MrReach> can you from the top of your head build a working w32 program? 14:44:17 just curious.. 14:44:24 the Microsoft Foundation Classes that come with Visual C++ come to mind 14:44:24 qfox: alot of copy and paste for the basic template, and then fill in required stuff from there. 14:44:25 simple hello world or whatever 14:44:33 mrreach: hate c++ :) 14:44:35 yes but thats exactly what i meant 14:44:45 writing it in notepad or something :) 14:44:51 erm ... not in assembler, no 14:45:04 no i mean any highlevel lang 14:45:05 from win32 it's pretty easy 14:45:07 qfox: sure, if you have a template already stashed somewhere, then it wouldn't be much of an issue. 14:45:15 ya thats what i meant 14:45:21 from the top of your head, all of it 14:45:22 :) 14:45:24 ... 14:45:30 4 proc: MessageBox 14:45:40 in a graphical environment, i wouldn't expect the coder to do it all from scratch. 14:45:51 i guess not 14:46:08 MB_OK z" message" z" title" 0 MessageBox 14:46:16 there it is 14:46:33 except you wanted "hello world" 14:46:40 60-70 lines of 'standard template' is quite normal in many GUI toolkits and such. whereas you generally don't need to change them, you can if the situation arrises. 14:46:48 MB_OK z" Hello, World!" z" title" 0 MessageBox 14:47:24 I'd want to double-check the parameter order in the SDK before I ran that 14:48:53 : t MB_OK z" Hello, world!" z" Border Title" 0 call MessageBox ; 14:49:01 there's a one-liner 14:51:24 qFox: did that work for you? 14:51:27 nop 14:51:28 crashes 14:51:31 sorry :\ 14:51:36 on what??? 14:51:38 i think on .. 14:51:42 border 14:51:44 undefined 14:51:47 oh 14:51:50 :( 14:51:51 sorry 14:52:01 messagebox is used by call? 14:52:19 (oh i get an exception error, not undefined error) 14:52:27 no 14:52:35 t 14:52:35 EXCEPTION: ACCESS_VIOLATION 14:52:35 Registers: 14:52:35 Eax: 3C821h 14:52:35 Ebx: FFFFFFFFh top of data stack 14:52:35 Edx: 3C822h 14:52:37 Ecx: 993370h 14:52:39 Esi: IP FF66FFFFh image relative 14:52:41 Edi: IMAGEFFFFFFFFh Forth's base address 14:52:43 Esp: SP@ FF79DECCh image relative 14:52:43 call looks up the given function in the system libs and calls it 14:52:45 Ebp: RP@ FF79DED8h image relative 14:52:47 Eip: PC 7739D231h image relative 14:52:49 RETURN STACK[4]: 10EC34 10EC34 10EC34 10EC34 14:52:52 welll messagebox is undefined 14:53:15 oh! you're using pre-6.09.xx ??? 14:53:34 capitalization counts when looking up windows functions 14:53:37 sorry, you lost me :) 14:53:43 ya i do know that 14:53:49 and the version that I gave got the caption and message backwards 14:54:13 thats another thing i personally hate, in any language, case sensitivity of functions and variables 14:54:21 I didn't type "messagebox" to you, I typed "MessageBox" 14:54:32 and i have a bullet for the guy that thought intercaps would be cool... 14:54:33 damnit! it's not the language 14:54:37 nono 14:54:41 its windows itself 14:54:42 but i mean in general 14:54:49 yes, agreed 14:54:50 c/c++ is case sensitive 14:54:53 etc 14:54:59 and windows is intercaps fubar 14:55:07 they all are when looking up function names in .DLLs 14:55:15 ye 14:55:26 but should : t MB_OK z" Hello, world!" z" Border Title" 0 call MessageBox ; work for me? 14:55:49 if you're using the older win32forth, then you need to convert to absolute address, try cutting and pasting this ... 14:56:06 well, the newest i could find is from 2001 14:56:08 :\ 14:56:29 : t MB_OK z" Border Title" rel>abs z" Hello, world!" rel>abs 0 call MessageBox ; 14:56:45 cut-paste that, then type "t