00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.12.23 00:06:47 --- quit: networm (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 00:27:14 --- nick: futhin -> thin 01:07:01 --- join: Serg (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 02:03:01 --- quit: Serg (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:03:59 --- join: Serg (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 02:08:15 --- quit: Serg (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:32:39 --- join: Serg (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 04:45:20 Privet :) 04:47:04 private 04:48:03 murskij 04:53:07 robushka, kak dela? 04:53:23 i serjushka! 04:53:30 serjushja? 04:53:32 hmm 05:02:46 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:02:53 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@c-985a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 05:15:56 hi ;)) 05:16:14 * Serg was AFK, finding lost wires in a building 05:19:49 * Serg wants to buy a half-format foto camera ;)) 05:29:55 ) 05:29:57 :) 05:31:16 --- nick: Robert_ -> Robert 05:33:50 mur: i recently thunk of a shutter made from disbalanced disk 05:34:09 no springs, no mechanism - just raise it and release 05:34:15 what do u think of it ? 05:39:14 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@c-985a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 05:39:59 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:49:25 disbalanced disk? :) 05:49:48 the hole in the middle of disk ? 05:55:42 --- join: schihei (~schihei@p5085DA11.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 05:57:45 yes, load on one side, hole opposite 05:59:27 you turn the disk to rise the load and release it 06:00:11 disk turns under disbalance, and hole goes past the lens, opening it 4 the short moment 06:01:42 hmmm 06:02:04 --- nick: Robert_ -> Robert 06:05:07 unclear ?? 06:05:39 i dont know if it is very usefull :P 06:06:44 the first shuttermechanism might have use for very short time taking (though, dont know if the film is ligted up enough in that) but the cameras have very short light times nowdays 06:06:48 1/10000 seconds 06:07:09 maybe, usefool 4 fun ;)) 06:07:30 ??? shortest i heard of is 1/4000 06:07:38 seen - 1/2000 06:07:54 there are mega pro cameras 06:08:12 hmm 1/10000 is not really ok 06:08:15 i see NO use for so short exposure 06:08:24 it shoudl be 1/8000 or 1/16000 i guess 06:08:40 well speed does nto matter usually 06:08:52 very short times are done with quick flashlights 06:08:53 * Serg shoots at 1/125 and it's too long 06:09:05 brr, too short 06:09:38 400 ISO film, 1/125, F/2.8 - last daylight shots 06:09:50 hehe 06:09:51 too wide hole, too shallow DOF 06:10:07 i took some of my photographyclass photos with 1/8 on hand :) 06:10:21 err, 200 ISO - cam was not mine, i use 400 06:11:49 idiot's dream: Zeiss Ikonta + 2 ISO film (for technical drawings reproduction) + F/22, looking at night landscape from high point 06:13:07 :) 06:13:08 heh, i shot Canon A70 at 1/5 or even 1sec on hand 06:13:14 not very sharp ;(( 06:13:38 i took a photo with 10 seconds on hand on floor. did have 1 cm movement but one sharp place :) 06:13:56 ;)) 06:14:19 * Serg shot 16 sec on hand w/ friend's Oly C740 06:14:26 at nite 06:14:55 result was, hmm, fuzzy ;))) 06:16:07 you shoudl put camera on some place 06:16:24 one photographer told that 1 min is usually ok when taking photo in dark 06:17:23 i would like a monopod, but my Zenit W has displaced screwhole ;(( 06:17:52 and monopod won't help much at so long exposure 06:19:03 the real pro cameras have large negatives 06:19:17 well i guess art photographers use them 06:19:29 damn big ;)) 06:19:42 i was retouching these on Mac 06:20:12 while working for some interior design magazine 06:20:53 i mean preal negaives not computer CCCDs 06:21:09 i guess they are using some 13 MPix CCDs 06:24:05 NO digicams ;)) they worked w/ 6x9 slides and drum scanner 06:24:08 we have this kind of camera at our department http://home.tnv.mh.se/ake-johansson/mamiya.jpg :) 06:24:43 that is about 3 times of normal camera :) 06:38:07 what model of Mamya ? 06:38:24 this brand is highly valued here ;)) 06:44:00 this is i guess Mamiya 5 ? 06:44:07 might be wrong 06:44:23 i remember for some reason it was Mamiya 7 but that is smaller one ... 06:44:25 dunno 06:44:29 going eat now 06:44:43 cya soon 06:46:07 cy tomorrow - gotta go soon 06:51:27 --- join: MrReach (~mrreach@209.181.43.190) joined #forth 06:51:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o MrReach 06:51:47 hihi 06:52:21 Hi 06:54:22 h 06:54:27 cya Serg !! 06:54:33 back 07:03:10 --- quit: Serg () 07:18:09 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 07:48:46 --- part: MrReach left #forth 07:56:22 --- join: networm__ (~networm@L0663P20.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 08:13:40 --- quit: networm_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 08:34:07 --- join: qFox (C00K13S@cp12172-a.roose1.nb.home.nl) joined #forth 08:42:45 * fridge yawns 09:33:34 whats the difference in the "ok" reply, and "ok...." reply? 09:33:37 if any 09:33:56 i would assume the latter would be expectant 09:34:07 or possibly 'ok, i am working on it now.' 09:34:16 hmm 09:34:20 er, that is 'ok, one moment please' 09:34:34 well, the thing is 09:34:38 its a simple loop 09:34:51 except i forgot a . the second time 09:35:04 so when i tried the word the first time, he replied ok 09:35:11 but the second time, he replied ok.... 09:35:32 so i was wondering if it had anything to do with the stack 09:35:41 because i did dup, just forgot the . 09:35:43 heh 09:36:00 in fact 09:36:01 it does 09:36:08 5 lop ok..... 09:36:08 . 1 ok.... 09:36:08 . 2 ok... 09:36:08 . 3 ok.. 09:36:08 . 4 ok. 09:36:19 ok thats settled :p 09:44:54 whats the word to show the number of items on the stack? 09:48:14 depth . 09:48:18 would do it 09:58:03 ah depth, tnx :) 10:54:58 how do you break from an endless loop? :p 11:21:43 EXIT I think 11:26:20 * qFox just exited the program alltogether 11:28:52 hmmm is anyone using proforth? 11:35:17 --- quit: Robert (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:35:17 --- quit: oooo__ (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:35:17 --- quit: ianp (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 11:37:39 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-985a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 11:37:39 --- join: ianp (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 11:37:39 --- join: oooo__ (o@virgo.bombsquad.org) joined #forth 11:42:48 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:42:55 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-985a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 12:00:32 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 12:00:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 12:19:58 * MysticOne pokes kc5tja with a giant little stick 12:26:44 * kc5tja is grooving to The Meters. 12:26:48 What's up? 12:27:55 not too much 12:27:59 working as usual 12:28:07 finally got to eliminate OSPF on tons of things today 12:28:53 hmm 12:29:11 * kc5tja is probably going to spend some time coding on qm today. 12:31:42 w00t 12:31:49 I haven't done really any scheme yet 12:31:51 but enjoyed reading about it :) 12:32:30 I'm thinking of using both Rexx and Scheme as the two 'official' scripting languages for qm. 12:33:35 Rexx? 12:33:38 not familiar with that one 12:36:06 * warp0x00 is back (gone 26:59:39) 12:36:27 kc5tja: oh, I got 2.6.0 running on my box here at work 12:36:31 it's ... interesting 12:40:08 Rexx is a language that more or less resembles BASIC, but is overall more powerful. It has an interesting history. 12:40:18 2.6.0 is fun. 12:40:23 * kc5tja likes 2.6.0 12:40:35 I just wish more kernel modules (e.g., my video card's kernel module!) works with it. 12:42:19 kc5tja: nvidia, right? 12:42:23 I wish it had ACPI sleep state support. 12:42:26 GeForce 4 12:42:28 yeah 12:42:37 I wish nvidia would just open source their drivers 12:42:43 I don't understnad what they have to gain by not doing so 12:42:53 Upgrade cash flow from the Windows users. 12:43:06 what does that have to do with the drivers, though? 12:43:19 PENIS 12:43:24 That's what. 12:43:31 warp0x00: we're talking about what nvidia wants, not you 12:43:41 The drivers reveal trade secrets that makes the chipsets unique. 12:43:47 I suppose they might say that open source drivers would be easier to reverse engeer their chip from. 12:43:53 yeah 12:43:53 They don't want to reveal how certain things are done inside their chips. 12:43:54 probably so 12:44:02 * MysticOne pets Matrox 12:44:09 I wish Matrox was just a little bit stronger in the 3D market 12:44:25 Is Matrox still in business? 12:44:26 :) 12:44:29 oh yes 12:44:37 they've still got some great stuff 12:44:40 just not really great for gaming 12:44:44 * kc5tja nods 12:44:51 Do they open-source their drivers? 12:44:53 not really great for having linux support either >.< 12:44:59 Yes. 12:45:13 warp0x00: I haven't tried the parhelias in Linux, but everything else has worked wonderfully 12:45:21 and they even write powerdesk as open source too 12:45:33 Yeah well everything else is old... 12:45:53 I still have to use a binary nvidia driver to get this tnt2 working at work ... 12:46:02 at least, if I want hardware acceleration 12:46:06 Seriously? 12:46:10 yep 12:46:14 yo ucan't get hardware acceleration otherwise 12:46:32 (I'm not using the binary driver at the moment, though, because I do a little more working than game playing) 12:46:40 lol :) 12:46:45 but I wouldn't have that problem if my trusty Matrox Millenium G450 was in here :) 12:46:50 matrox have official linux drivers on the CD 12:46:54 I use ati/fglrx its allright. 12:48:55 I installed the binary only driver precisely because I do some gaming under Linux. 12:49:03 Otherwise, I wouldn't have cared much otherwise. :) 12:49:33 kc5tja: just sucks that you have to do that, ya know? 12:49:51 hm 12:49:58 i can't see using an nvidia card on a linux box. 12:50:25 wUoNrFk: It's one of the few video cards that (a) is supported under Linux in any capacity, and (b) is capable of handling Neverwinter Nights. :) 12:50:41 At least, at the time I bought it. 12:50:46 ATI is also an option and their binaries work under 2.6.0. 12:50:52 people at my work play NWN sometimes, the CTO is the DM 12:51:07 hm 12:51:10 fridge: Too funny. :) 12:51:28 kc5tja: i'd prolly be using an ati card... 12:51:46 ATI has horrifyingly bad support for Linux -- even worse than nVidia. 12:52:01 kc5tja: how do you figure? 12:52:27 nVidia is consistent about their support: We'll only support Linux through proprietary, closed-source, specifically configured kernel modules. 12:52:49 ATI, OTOH, is, "Yeah, we'll support linux for our latest cards," and next week, "Sorry, no Linux support is planned." It's a total crap shoot with them. 12:52:59 Uh... 12:53:08 AFAIK every ATI card is supported. 12:53:16 slashdot headline reader. 12:53:41 Mine certainly is, I'm on a relatively high-end one running dual head and 3d accelation on both heads. 12:53:59 I know that when playing SecondLife on my Mac, they keep telling me ATI cards suck when I have an issue :) 12:54:02 * MysticOne blames it on poor coding though 12:54:18 I went with nVidia because, at the time I purchased my video card, ATI had just finished making an announcement that it was going to discontinue Linux support for their video cards. 12:55:04 mystic: mixed beliefs on that way. supporting multiple hardware layers is annoying. 12:55:04 kc5tja: I went with ATI because, nVidia cards suck. 12:55:05 This was no later than one month after their previous announcement, saying that Linux support was a "key part of their future plans." 12:55:24 they all suck 12:55:26 warp0x00: Hardly. The hardware is extremely capable and solid. 12:55:26 and they're all awesome 12:55:27 all at the same time 12:56:06 kc5tja: Hardly. Everything after the geForce 3 kinda sucks. 12:56:13 pfft 12:56:14 whatever. 12:56:20 hm 12:56:20 Whateva, ho. 12:56:30 performance wise under preferable platforms, both cards are nice. 12:56:34 Ho? 12:56:46 I used my Matrox G550 for way to long because there was no real solution. 12:57:05 * wUoNrFk doesn't game under linux, as such no issue for him 12:57:14 ... but i can't imagine using a non-matrix card under linux. 12:57:18 er 12:57:19 wUoNrFk: I generally don't either. But NWN is an exception. 12:57:20 matrox. sorry 12:57:30 Isn't NWN free on linux? 12:57:36 warp0x00: No. 12:57:40 Whatever gave you that idea? 12:57:57 the client is free 12:57:58 I think the whole thing is just in portage (gentoo). 12:58:00 you still have to buy the game, though 12:58:02 You can download the binaries, sure, but it won't run unless you have purchased the Windows copy of the game, as that has the CD key, and some support files that it needs to run. 12:58:19 Oh, I see. 12:58:31 Frankly, I think that's the way it should be for all games. 12:58:36 That makes a great amount of sense to me. 13:00:32 I bought a G550 13:00:42 cd key + data files being on the distribution with a preset number of executables on the cd with other platforms available online or as a $5 (s/h) auxillary cd would be good, aye. 13:00:49 because it was the only thing I could definately confirm did dual head with out issue 13:00:53 think i'm running a g400 or g450 right now 13:00:56 only 16mb of ram tho 13:01:04 * MysticOne pets Matrox 13:01:13 * wUoNrFk runs matrox simply cause of the better looking display. 13:01:24 I don't buy that 13:01:32 I would get a parhelia once they fix the linux drivers. 13:02:03 fridge: statement concerning 'matrox looks better', or something else ? 13:02:12 that matrox has superiour 2D 13:02:18 Matrox does look better. 13:02:19 it does 13:02:27 Better components, better DACs... 13:02:30 they've long had superior 2D support 13:02:37 does it result in a noticable difference? 13:02:41 yes 13:02:46 Depends on the monitor. 13:02:50 not compared to my Geforce2GTS or my TNT2 13:02:52 I can't notice any difference 13:02:55 the dac side on the matrox produces a much more vibrant and filling display than the nvidia/ati/3dfx/s3 cards i've owned. 13:03:11 fridge: and there are people who can't tell the difference between mp3 and ogg vorbis, but that doesn't mean that ogg vorbis isn't better :) 13:03:17 fridge: perhaps monitor, monitor cable quality ? etc. 13:03:20 Yeah... this ATI is close but not quite there. 13:03:23 MysticOne: you might have a point 13:03:24 mystic: hm. ogg isn't necessarily better. 13:03:27 I am colour blind 13:03:29 wUoNrFk: sure it is :) 13:03:33 wUoNrFk: in many ways 13:03:34 fridge: Lol. 13:03:37 mp3 & ogg both sound rather snotty to me. 13:03:37 unfortunately, not hardware player support 13:03:45 but my head/ears don't fit their psychoacoustic model. 13:03:51 hehehe 13:03:53 so, I'm probably akin to a semi deaf person critiquing audio system 13:03:55 s 13:03:56 wUoNrFk: are you a FLAC lover? :) 13:04:03 fridge: hahaha 13:04:24 mystic: if i own the music, i tend to play it from CD. if i'm sampling it, i don't mind an mp3 or ogg... cause i'm gonna listen to it a couple times anyways. 13:04:42 I find ogg to be really good. 13:04:52 on these crappy speakers 13:05:00 -q -1 sounds as good as -q 10 13:05:04 hm 13:05:20 I think they have a RMS of around a watt 13:05:21 wUoNrFk: I usually rip the CDs and use that when I'm on the computer 13:05:25 CD usually travels with me 13:05:30 bose acoustic quiet noise canceling headphones here, along with some sennhieser hd570's... 13:05:45 and when I make an ogg vorbis encode, it's usually -q 9 13:05:53 mystic: i tend to use scsi ... mass storage can be expensive :) 13:05:56 Whoa. 13:05:57 9. 13:06:32 i recently bought 4 23gb full height 5.25" drives... coupel were dead. raid file server is crippled because of it :( 13:06:43 should pick up some 47's.. theyr'e about the same price these days. 13:07:02 5.25" drives? 13:07:07 wUoNrFk: hehehe 13:07:07 make good cannon balls too 13:07:11 like 5.25" hard drives? 13:07:22 warp: aye. take a cdrom drive, stack it on top ofitself twice and add 10-15 pounds. 13:07:22 wUoNrFk: a -q 9 vorbis file isn't too bad ... a 14 minute song is about 30MB 13:07:41 mystic: i can't stand long periods of listening to mp3/ogg. 13:07:55 wUoNrFk: thats fucking huge.... thats ridiculous. 13:08:09 depends 13:08:13 whats the quality like? 13:08:15 compared to mp3? 13:08:18 mp3 < 192 and ogg < -q 5 bug me 13:08:24 gives me a headache and infuriates me due to the 'through a shower/garden hose' sound artificats i hear (as well as muddled high & low frequencies) 13:08:55 warp: huge ? sure. but i just stick them in an external scsi case and don't care. they could be sitting in a closet for all i know :) 13:09:08 and at under $25 a piece... not a bad price. 13:09:09 ogg must use my exact psy model... I love it. 13:09:26 * warp0x00 giggles 13:09:46 besides, could always use the left over drives to weigh down trucks when it snows :) 13:09:52 hehehe 13:11:08 http://www.softwareandstuff.com/h_hd_ST446442W4.html 13:11:15 4 of those would fit nicely in my external scsi case. 13:11:23 er, 1 of the package, 4 of them drives. 13:12:04 140GB of storage with a spare drive as raid parity... would be nice. 13:15:05 sweet! 13:15:13 new iPods! (hopefully) 13:15:18 mini ones at $100/each 13:15:47 $33 shipping ground, $97 for 2nd day heh 13:16:58 so... $85ish ground .. hm. 13:18:46 Warranty:Sold As-IS at this crazy price! 13:18:48 nevermind. 13:19:00 usually softwareandstuff is pretty good bout warranty stuff, but owell. 13:19:22 what is it? 13:19:26 oh 13:19:27 drives 13:21:36 wow WTF 13:23:35 I almost want a stack of those. 13:23:43 eh 13:23:44 Less than $.90 13:23:47 a mb 13:23:49 i dunno 13:23:53 but something isnt right 13:24:02 #52 13:24:04 $52 13:24:11 for 47gig? 13:24:13 ... (47 * 4) / 52 dollars a gb. 13:24:29 well 13:24:31 - Unformatted Capacity (GB): 62.6 13:24:31 - Formatted Capacity (GB): 47.0 13:24:32 $52 for a four pack. 13:25:21 $3 a GB 13:25:26 (and change) 13:25:32 yea but why does it say 0.9 per mb? 13:25:43 cause whoever did the page fucked up. 13:25:51 even though its correct i suppose 13:25:55 Less than $.90 a megabyte 13:25:58 its less... ;) 13:26:20 far less 13:26:41 could be subject to opinion :) 13:27:12 How many of these drives per four pack would be DOA I wonder. 13:27:19 doa? 13:27:26 Dead On Arrival 13:27:30 ah :) 13:28:32 warp: interesting question... i tend to trust s&s, but... that was on items they gave a warranty for. 13:28:47 btw, it's 3.5 cents a MB. 13:28:49 Damn... I wonder how much power those things take too. 13:28:59 warp: powering them all at once can be a bad thing :) 13:29:00 or noise, for that matter 13:29:04 lol 13:29:13 noise ? mmm closed case they do okay unless there's alot of activity 13:29:34 I think I'll stick to 3.5" drives. 13:29:38 out in the open ? their spin can be quite the jet roar :) 13:29:43 well its a double bayed 5.25 inch drive... 13:29:49 its bound to make a shitload of noise 13:30:03 hm 13:30:11 size wouldn't necessarily determine noise. 13:30:21 notebook drives can be quite crackly during high activity 13:30:32 and double height 3.5" scsi drive can be quite the screamers too 13:31:02 you're only supporting my point... :) 13:31:12 but yes, i know it doesnt mean everything 13:31:39 but by the looks of the description those things are built for reliability under a eh, office environment 13:31:48 i think noise is not an issue 13:32:05 they're definately intended for server use. 13:56:00 --- quit: warp0x00 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:07:03 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@c-985a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 14:07:48 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:02:55 --- nick: Robert_ -> Robert 15:44:35 --- quit: networm__ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:45:26 --- join: networm__ (~networm@L0625P18.dipool.highway.telekom.at) joined #forth 16:03:08 --- quit: qFox ("if at first you dont succeed, quit again") 16:36:12 Hmmm 16:38:08 gn 16:38:35 * MysticOne pokes kc5tja animal style 16:55:12 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 16:58:06 * kc5tja is thinking of how I want to proceed with qm's development. 16:58:15 forward, of course 16:58:25 No shit sherlock. :) 16:58:40 But there is a 180-degree swath in the forward direction. 16:59:30 * kc5tja is thinking that the QmFile series of objects are a bit too complicated for qm's immediate needs. 17:02:55 OF course, it doesn't help that I'm sick, and that I have a headache, and possibly a small fever, AND the fact that it was pouring rain all day today, and consequently, I'm feeling very low to begin with. 17:04:07 I think half the problem is that I'm finding it difficult to document the QmFile and related classes. 17:06:12 That is a pity of course, because I had it all so clear in my head earlier this morning. :( 17:06:35 do you have medicine head? 17:07:47 No, but if it doesn't get better by tomorrow, I'll have medicine head. 17:17:11 --- nick: Robert -> rob_ert 17:31:48 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 17:41:06 --- quit: Herkamire ("attempting to boot netbsd CD") 17:55:20 OK, I think I am getting the documentation aspect of it down finally. 17:58:28 Though, I'm wondering if I have to place my program code in figures, because inlining the code fragments really is causing TeX to format pages like it's drunk. 18:39:08 Yeah, I think I'm going to keep this files API documentation for a later time, but for now, I'll just stick with ANSI C's f*() API. 18:45:56 --- join: MrReach (~mrreach@209.181.43.190) joined #forth 18:45:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +o MrReach 18:46:10 hihi 18:47:42 re 19:28:45 There's nothing quite like a language like Forth to show you just how utterly verbose and inconvenient a language like C is. 19:30:15 hoho 19:31:20 * kc5tja is writing qm in C, primarily to make it hackable by other people. 19:31:25 And it's an easy enough write. 19:31:32 But Forth is just so much more . . . convenient. 19:32:59 qm? 19:33:40 It's a completely modeless text editor that I'm trying to write. 19:33:50 Another thing I'm thinking of doing is aborting the whole literate programming idea too. 19:34:05 I think it's truely valuable, but it's also taking *forever* to get any code actually produced. 19:35:56 forever is a long time 19:36:31 Yes, it is. 19:37:40 I'll stick with the LP for now, but one thing is definitely for certain: had I not been doing LP, I probably would have had qm's object persistence engine *done* by today. 19:41:42 what made you choose LP? 19:45:41 Just to try it. I've never done it on a "real world" project before. 19:47:06 stick to XP =) 19:47:52 I didn't learn about XP until I decided to just "do" it one day either. 19:48:17 Computer programming is as much an art as it is a science, perhaps even moreso an art than a science. 19:48:45 As an artist, I feel I have to be open to various techniques and to always learn new things. 19:49:08 However, I can assure you qm is thoroughly unit tested. :) 19:50:28 I figure if some of the world's best software are written using LP, I might learn a thing or two from the technique. 20:03:24 totally 20:03:34 what's literate programming like? link? 20:10:14 ianp: Just google for it. There's too many links to give one definitive link. 20:10:17 What's it like? 20:10:27 In most cases, you record documentating inside source code. 20:10:36 In LP, you record source code inside documentation. 20:10:44 This leads to a fundamentally different way of building software. 20:11:01 It also leads to "big design up front," which is anathema to me. 20:11:10 One of the reasons I feel that I'm not making a whole lot of progress with qm. 20:11:42 OTOH, the documentation it produces is, bar none, vastly superior for the purposes of code comprehension. 20:23:56 cool 20:28:10 * kc5tja is going to be rather pleased with this object persistence engine, I think. 20:28:33 It's based on Oberon System's persistence engine. 20:56:39 * MysticOne complains about non-multithreaded programs 20:59:47 what annoys me more are applications that say they are threaded but still block IO 21:00:03 hehe 21:00:13 this one game I'm playing would work so much better if it was multithreaded ... well, I think it would 21:00:17 because I have a dual processor system 21:00:22 and with it being single threaded, it'll only use one 21:07:07 ok, so if they don't use threads to manage i/o ... what are they using threads for?? 21:07:44 Many programs use threads to distribute processing of data across multiple CPUs. 21:07:48 that was in regard to fridge's comment, btw 21:08:06 yes, that's true 21:14:39 I think managing IO is what they wanted not what they wrote 21:14:53 do what I mean, not what I say kind of thing 21:17:44 so, I get 105% utilization of one CPU when running this game 21:17:45 :) 21:17:49 while the other just kinda hangs out... 21:18:00