00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.12.21 00:01:20 <`John> gauntlet was written in forth? 00:01:44 <`John> jesus 00:02:10 ever hear of the game "leasure suit larry in the land of the lounge lizards" ??? 00:02:13 pathetic game 00:02:16 but coded in forth 00:02:20 very popular too 00:03:35 you play gauntlet ? 00:03:43 i used to - didnt know it was forth tho 00:04:10 <`John> heheh yeah i heard of that one. 00:04:31 <`John> though I thought the author wrote his work in asm only. 00:05:16 <`John> leisure suit was modeled after the original programmer of the King Quest series I think. i know that 'he' wrote all his work in asm. 00:07:36 didnt know that 00:07:49 but i have it on good authority that leasure suit was coded in forth :) 00:08:00 i also used to have a DOOM style game that was coded in MVP forth 00:08:07 but i lost that to a drive crash 00:08:18 which is ok cuz i dont think i was supposed to have that 00:08:24 and ive no idea where i got it 00:11:05 I remember in one of the LSL games you have to write some software in ASM 00:11:11 as part of the game 00:11:39 well, you don't 'write' it, but LSL does, and you see like ADD, MOV eax etc on the screen 00:12:19 heh 00:12:25 i never played them 00:12:29 a buddy of mine did tho 00:12:37 i thunked they were pathetic 00:15:39 I enjoyed the space quest games 00:16:30 but that whole line of adventure games wore thin after a while 00:16:55 obtuse puzzles 00:18:34 only game i ever really got INTO was "the settlers" 00:18:38 the original one 00:18:52 the settlers 2,3, 4 etc are limp wristed compared to the original 00:19:38 I've spent far too much of my life playing computer games, I've almost outgrown it now ;) 00:20:31 i spent 14 + hours a day playing the settlers 00:20:35 ever day for 2 years 00:20:41 but i wasnt addicted! 00:20:43 honest! 00:20:56 yeah, that would satisfy my requirements of being INTO a game 00:21:33 * fridge has another attempt at sleeping 00:23:21 :) 00:35:58 --- quit: `John ("ChatZilla 0.9.35 [Mozilla rv:1.5/20031007]") 01:34:46 heh 01:34:51 14+ hours a day for 2 years 01:34:59 now that is addiction 01:36:36 hehe 01:37:11 hey chris :) 01:40:40 wwhats up? 01:44:39 --- join: bwb (~nate@ip68-4-123-127.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 01:45:41 reading starting forth 01:45:59 hello 01:46:09 hey bwb 01:46:21 hmm the name ree sounds familiar, prolly not same person tho 01:46:28 you didn't populate #osdev a while back, did you? 01:46:56 yeah I did 01:46:56 for years 01:46:56 hehe 01:47:01 <-- nate37 01:47:06 ahh 01:47:09 hey nate :) 01:47:13 sup? :) 01:47:17 efnet #osdev right? 01:47:18 ohh wait, you're off of this one 01:47:21 it's been so long hehe 01:47:34 this network, yeah 01:47:40 ahh tons.. but what is up with you? 01:47:57 ... College applications ... not much else 01:47:58 heh 01:48:07 ahh, good luck :) 01:48:12 thanks 01:48:18 Already recieved one rejection :) 01:48:28 cool! 01:48:30 hehe 01:48:31 --- quit: OrngeTide ("Changing server") 01:49:31 hmm.. I've been running booths at socallinuxexpo.org for this year and last ear 01:49:35 and working up at camp 01:49:37 and thats it 01:49:40 you? 01:50:11 moved again 01:50:16 now I am in Indiana 01:50:26 well, actually, I've probably moeved 3 times since we last talked 01:50:51 ah, heh 01:50:56 moved into a new office.. starting the business/organization 01:50:56 Whyfor? 01:51:08 ah... what type of "organization"? 01:51:11 it's what I do best 01:51:12 heh 01:51:32 Doesn't sound completely legal ;) 01:51:32 DIST.. distribution related stuff 01:51:59 but the business is that bath and body stuff you know soaps 01:52:11 ah 01:52:12 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@rm-f.net) joined #forth 01:52:22 so still in the soap business 01:52:42 DIST is about better defining and developing peoples work between each other 01:53:28 ah 01:53:45 so.. err... an "effiecency expert" type job? 01:53:57 and creating connection maybe one day to supplant society 01:54:13 I think I remember you talking about that 01:54:21 that's part of it 01:54:33 yeah, but I have changed the name and somewhat its direction 01:55:01 it'll have a general development system/network behind it 01:55:03 ah 01:55:09 capable of helping anyone develop whatever they want 01:55:17 lot of AI and other stuff 01:55:22 ahh 01:55:30 interesting 01:56:04 yeah.. I just recently finally convinced myself to use forth partly in the development of the OS 01:56:26 ah 01:56:32 It really needs an OS? 01:56:33 a distributed network os project will sit behind the network 01:56:42 ah 01:56:51 yeah I want to create a large cluster 01:58:03 Hmm I wanna design a swampcooler that also uses a peltier cooler of some sort 01:59:54 I think I remember that :) 02:00:07 hmm no, just came up with that right now 02:00:09 the mini-fridge units 02:00:14 else I have a bad memory (I think I do tho) 02:00:35 Yah, got a mini-fridge for xmas (from distant relative so opened it up a little early) 02:00:38 kinda cool 02:02:02 hehe 02:02:28 you're like ellen on finding nemo 02:02:42 Didn't see that movie 02:02:43 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02:02:45 How so? 02:02:54 ahh.. her role was perfect 02:03:19 she constantly forgot what just happened and would continuously be starting entirely new thoughts :) 02:03:28 she stole the show.. well her fish did hehe 02:03:34 made it worth watching 02:03:44 heh 02:03:53 Yes I tend to repeat myself or zone out :( 02:04:19 but oh well, I can't remember that I did, so I don't care 8) 02:05:25 haha 02:05:28 perfect :) 02:05:32 so you do forth? 02:06:14 not lately (Last project was forth for a ti-85 and a program to decode moore's colorforth blocks)... 02:06:40 Joined to just try to stay awake 02:06:46 yeah, what is the story on chuck's cf release 02:06:48 don't feel like sleeping but got 3 hours last night sooo 02:06:52 hmm? 02:07:01 I havn't looked at it in a year or two, anything new happen? 02:07:24 he supposedly has a more complete system @ home than the one he shares 02:07:35 there are quite a few clones done now 02:07:40 one for windows, another for X 02:07:44 actually two for windows 02:07:57 ah cool 02:12:06 other than that it doesn't seem like it is being updated 02:12:14 chuck moved to the somewhere 02:12:23 somehwere/sierra 02:13:00 but I hope to make something similar to c4 02:13:39 ah 02:14:17 at least for a development aid and a backend to an interactive prompt 02:14:31 yess 02:14:43 instead of using vi+fasm for developing in asm hehe 02:15:01 heh 02:15:03 vi not bad 02:15:55 yeah, perhaps a vi like binding can be developed under a forth 02:16:24 colors is an example of mode 02:16:35 that would be cool 02:16:36 hmm 02:16:42 I don't think I can stay awake :/ 02:16:42 add a few other modes and the keys of vi and you have a similar environment 02:16:57 can you add more modes to vi? 02:16:58 kc5 has a project called VIBE 02:16:59 vi block editor 02:17:14 kc5tja? 02:17:30 yeah 02:18:40 anyways, I think I am going to sleep 02:18:43 I'm usually on irc btw 02:18:45 we'll see how things go 02:18:48 just not in channels 02:18:49 hehe, k 02:18:53 it was good seeing you again 02:18:55 nice talk with you 02:18:56 ohh? 02:19:05 irc works better if you join a channel :) 02:19:16 nah, privmsg's are fine :p 02:19:26 (using gaim as my client, heh) 02:19:42 k 02:20:04 later 02:20:08 --- part: bwb left #forth 03:36:22 --- join: aktnot (ident@233.80-202-65.nextgentel.com) joined #forth 04:06:06 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 04:50:08 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-b75a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 05:00:40 --- quit: warp0x00 (Excess Flood) 05:09:17 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 05:57:56 --- join: hovil (~hovil@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 05:58:54 * hovil rubs his weary eyes 06:06:02 --- quit: fridge (Nick collision from services.) 06:06:04 --- nick: hovil -> fridge 06:06:40 --- join: fridge_ (~fridge@dsl-203-33-160-177.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 06:06:48 --- quit: fridge_ (Remote closed the connection) 06:06:54 take that! 06:10:00 :) 06:11:12 I need a new job, shift work is starting to get annoying 07:42:22 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD9E5CC0C.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 07:54:06 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 08:07:01 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 08:07:01 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 08:11:54 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 08:23:44 My voice is slowly going away. Pity. 08:24:29 :/ 08:24:59 * kc5tja has no earthly idea how I'm going to do counter order taking today at work without a voice. 08:26:30 record the usualy responses onto tape with what little voice you have left 08:26:48 then just play them back at the appropriate time 08:27:00 Heh 08:27:12 That won't work in practice, except to greet them and send them off, really. 08:38:06 * MysticOne smacks around kc5tja with a burger patty 08:38:12 kc5tja: or is it a burger paddy? :) 08:41:05 * kc5tja slaps him back with a french fry. 08:41:18 hehehe 08:41:35 * kc5tja is waiting for his clothes to dry before heading off to work. 08:42:54 i have to go to work too soon 08:43:01 andd i really ddont want to 08:45:52 Is Fcode the same as forth? 08:46:15 More or less. It's a form of tokenized Forth source. 09:00:10 * kc5tja is away: shower 09:02:11 --- join: aktnot_ (ident@233.80-202-65.nextgentel.com) joined #forth 09:04:38 as stupid as this movie is, it's kinda sad 09:10:55 sad as in its sad that they bothered to make it, or sad boohoohoo sad 09:11:03 both :) 09:16:24 --- quit: aktnot (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:18:03 * kc5tja is back (gone 00:17:53) 09:18:06 What movie is this? 09:18:46 Joe Dirt :) 09:19:13 that movie was pretty bad 09:19:21 yeah 09:19:28 I expected better! 09:20:14 Never heard of it. 09:20:21 kc5tja, its for the best 09:20:26 * kc5tja saw Return of the King last night. err. This morning. 09:35:14 win 14 09:38:46 I wish I could find out why nobody here sells Sierra Mist 09:53:47 is that some kind of moonshine? 09:55:16 If that's the Sierra Mist I'm thinking of, hardly. 09:55:22 Anyway, I have to jet off to work now. 09:58:55 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 10:17:55 mountain dew is what they used to call moonshine 10:17:59 haha 10:39:52 is there a way of reading args passed in from the command line? 10:39:55 I'm using pfe 10:41:30 well it would be different for every OS pfe was running under 10:41:46 ahh, nm 10:41:47 if he doesnt have any words to do it you are prolly fscked in linux 10:41:52 answer is staring me in the face 10:41:55 linux passes args to you on the stack 10:59:09 --- quit: ree (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:59:41 --- join: ree (~jwm@ns.fasthost.net) joined #forth 11:08:54 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-169-93-74.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 11:15:29 --- quit: Sonarman ("Client exiting") 12:35:10 --- join: MrReach (~mrreach@209.181.43.190) joined #forth 12:35:11 --- mode: ChanServ set +o MrReach 12:35:21 hihi! 12:35:23 Hi :) 12:36:25 * MrReach pulls out his hair 12:37:13 the Pentuim IV has 532 Mnemonics ... i've gotten myself in *WAY* deeper than I anticipated 12:38:05 Heh, that's quite a few compared to the good old 8086.. 12:38:21 yeah, I was thinking "8086 plus a few" 12:38:25 *WRONG* 12:38:26 haha 12:38:37 thats just crazy 12:38:56 what was the 8086? 86 or something? 12:39:28 I think it was less than 100 12:40:01 when they said CISC they meant it 12:40:28 well, mostly it's because they introduced several data types 12:40:45 and walked right into the combinatorial explosion 12:43:02 in any case, i'm intimidated 12:43:52 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 12:43:54 --- quit: chrisrw (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 12:44:52 can't you just ignore their existance? 12:45:30 heh, the objective is to write a *REAL* assembler ... i.e. complete 12:45:38 Ouch. 12:45:39 (and disassembler) 12:46:04 well, it's not *TERRIBLE* ... just got to keep plodding through it 12:46:50 makes for a gigantic test file, though 12:49:22 why, oh why couldn't IBM have used the MC68000 when they built the original PC? 12:51:34 I'm sure there were sound technological and economic reasons for the desicion they made at the time 12:53:08 I don't think actively frustrating developers all over the world was a goal they had in mind 12:53:19 heh 12:53:26 I'm sure not 12:53:58 actually, the 16 bit bus probably would have dramatically increased memory costs 12:54:55 and it abviously wasn't developers who made this descision (or engineers, probably) 12:54:58 is there a good cross platform assembler for PPC? something like nasm 12:55:21 I'm sure there is ... who manufactures it? 12:55:22 I used gas last time I was playing with that kinda stuff 12:58:54 my next one will be the SH3/4 ... for my Jornada 12:59:07 that ought to be a piece of cake, compartively 12:59:34 comparitively 12:59:53 arg! 13:03:03 --- quit: fridge ("Leaving") 13:33:32 --- part: MrReach left #forth 13:34:45 hey all 13:36:49 hey ree 13:41:34 --- join: chrisrw (~chris@wbar8.lax1-4-11-099-104.dsl-verizon.net) joined #forth 13:42:56 hey jukka buddy 13:43:07 hey chrisrw :) 13:52:03 --- join: Hipo (~hipo@dsl-hkigw4na7.dial.inet.fi) joined #forth 13:52:48 --- quit: aktnot_ ("leaving") 13:56:51 No urls in topic? 14:00:59 hhe 14:01:04 thers only 1 !!!! 14:01:08 lol 14:01:16 chere can BE only one 14:01:20 hi hipo :) 14:01:31 you a forth coder or interested in learning ? 14:01:59 how the heck to you mistype C for T grrr 14:02:07 Learning, that's why I wanted some urls. :) Well I already used google. 14:02:23 isforth.clss.net is my compiler 14:02:30 thats the "one" :) 14:04:50 heh, nah, the one is www.colorforth.com 14:04:52 :) 14:05:39 I hope gforth is also the one because I'm currently compiling it. :) 14:11:05 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD9E5C428.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:11:23 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 14:11:58 err gforth is not forth 14:11:59 its c 14:23:37 --- join: `John (~e@ool-18be6c71.dyn.optonline.net) joined #forth 14:37:19 hey john 14:38:02 I440r: lol 14:38:04 gforth is a forth-like scripting language written in C. kinda like awk is a C-like scripting language. 14:38:33 i got my scripting language to work yesterday. it's a strongly typed forth-like. ehhe. 14:39:52 the more I look at it, the more I wonder if strong typing would be a good thing in forth. it puts some restrictions on you. but it can resolve stack underflows and leaks at compile time, so no gross run-time checks necessary for the paranoid. 14:40:27 it makes compiling IF ELSE THEN a little more complicated (an extra step) but it doesn't completely break it. 14:40:49 OrngeTide, tell me more about your langauge 14:41:22 slava: hrm. it designed to work with C (basically i didn't want to use tcl). so you register function handlers. 14:41:40 I've also wrote a language but it's based on ruby, not forth... That's why I'm learning forth so I could learn something new that I could use. 14:41:53 but you can register the same name multiple times, so I do fsAddInternal("+","ii",core_add_ii); 14:42:00 that is + that takes two integers. 14:42:10 this is similar to my langauge 14:42:11 I have "+","ff" and "+","ss" for floats and strings. 14:42:13 but mine is written in java 14:42:26 i see. 14:43:00 i wanted something that would be safe for any user to use (this is part of a MUD). but doesn't do excessive checking during execution. i believe I can take care of everything at parse/"compile" time. 14:43:20 mine does type checking at runtime 14:43:45 a unique feature of mine is that stack ops are defined using "shuffle" notation 14:43:55 like ~<< swap a b ~~~ b a >>~ 14:44:49 : foo ( n n -- n n n n ) over over ; .. might be an example rountine. i was going to have it look at the () to determine it's "type" but then i realized that I already knew it from the implementation. that made thigns easier. 14:44:58 slava: what does that mean? 14:46:10 well the a b ~~~ b a is "compiled" into an integer array that describes a permutation on the stack 14:46:16 dup is a ~~~ a a 14:46:22 2dup is a b ~~~ a b a b 14:46:23 four returns? 14:46:23 etc. 14:46:26 hehe 14:46:44 i didn't use -- because -- is my swapped subtraction operator 14:46:50 also I'm hacking in code so the internal routines can address the stack directly. rather than using push/pop they just adjust the stack pointer at the end of the operation. seems to be a good optimization for C-code. 14:46:57 nobody uses --, just notation heh 14:47:05 slava: hrm. I see. 14:47:07 ahh, in your implementation you use -- 14:47:21 OrngeTide, also my language has bignums, ratios 14:47:31 slava: how lisp of you:) 14:47:38 yes -- even lisp cons cells to build linked lists 14:47:51 [ 1 2 3 4 ] car ==> 1 14:47:55 [ 1 2 3 4 ] cdr ==> [ 2 3 4 ] 14:48:01 slava: yea. i've only implemented long long, double and string so far. I need user defined types and arrays yet before I can use it. 14:48:15 mine also has "code quotations" 14:48:21 simplest example is 2 2 [ + ] call 14:48:23 this is same as 2 2 + 14:48:24 you know what I hate{ 14:48:44 there is also [ 1 2 3 ] [ 2 + ] each, and so on 14:48:46 people on aim who have teal on black or yellow on white 14:48:52 slava: yea. i can do that. 2 2 ' + eval 14:48:53 because you cant see it without highlighting 14:49:00 and it gets annoying as fuck 14:49:05 but i can only quote 1 thing 14:49:13 and then they get pissed off and warn and block you 14:49:32 slava: why do you have that sort of thing? it looks a lot like lisp now. :P 14:49:55 chrisrw: in everybuddy and trillian you can just totally disable colors. 14:50:08 OrngeTide, because i can write rpn code with advantages of rpn code (factoring, no need for locals, simplicity) but without lots of stack operators 14:50:20 slava: i see. 14:50:28 i have an http server written in my language 14:50:38 42 lines of code, not counting comments, blanks, and declarations 14:50:42 slava: my forth code rarely has stack operations anyways. :) 14:50:49 70 lines if you count those lines 14:50:58 slava: sounds neat! :) 14:51:04 OrngeTide: well, im sure theres an option in gaim :) 14:51:21 i'm finishing up the compiler today. right now it is interprete only. so I can't do conditionals or loops 14:51:29 chrisrw: yea. gaim too 14:51:34 my conditionals are done with quotations 14:51:43 that's very tcl like :P 14:51:47 1 2 < [ "1 is less than 2" . ] [ "1 is greater than 2 (!!)" . ] ifte 14:51:55 since mine is all static i can't possibly support that. 14:51:59 or 10 [ "hello" . ] times 14:52:05 but there is no while/for/until loops 14:52:08 you use recursion 14:52:11 and it does tail call elimination 14:52:17 so you don't run out of call stack 14:52:18 OrngeTide: well, im sure theres an option in gaim :) 14:52:24 er 14:52:25 slava: oh awesome:) 14:52:25 oops 14:52:27 Z)) 14:52:54 slava: have you released this yet? 14:52:59 not yet 14:53:06 but i can send you a copy. you'll need a JVM to run it though 14:53:24 mine is going to be released as public domain. because my entire project is PD. and I use a lot of PD code from other places for it too. (like sqlite) 14:53:25 I would also like to have a copy of sources... 14:53:32 slava: oh java. that's right. I can't really use that. :( 14:53:34 mine is bsd licensed 14:53:39 bsd is good too:) 14:53:42 you can't use it in your project, or use it at all? 14:53:50 i don't use java at all 14:53:54 why? 14:54:01 i don't have a use for it. 14:54:17 about half the code I write lives in the kernel anyways. this is one of the rare times I'm writing an application. 14:54:25 what OS kernel? 14:54:35 the choices for MUD software out there is terrible, and my fiance doesn't believe me. she thinks they are all great:P 14:54:43 hehe 14:54:48 to each their own 14:54:49 slava: linux, vxworks, qnx and my own [incomplete] kernel. 14:54:52 besides, she's a girl :) 14:54:55 your own kernel? neat 14:55:04 it's really a glorified bootstrap:P 14:55:05 in Forth? 14:55:08 nah. it's C 14:55:14 just a tiny monolithic kernel. 14:55:18 heh, eww :) 14:55:24 real-time cooperative multitasking. 14:55:24 one day i will port my langauge to C 14:55:33 the one part of forth that it does well and you do it in C 14:55:48 i'm hacking up a real forth OS. but I'm having trouble with it. 14:55:53 ahh, k 14:56:00 what's the problem? 14:56:05 i can write a C kernel with my eyes closed. :P 14:56:19 Hello World 14:56:21 heh 14:56:31 a "real" forth OS with usable GUI would be cool, as opposed to 3kb bizzaro ones like colorforth :) 14:56:33 |) 14:56:36 ree: it's a chicken and egg problem. I want to write as much of it in forth as possible. but I still have a lot of asm in it. 14:56:48 slava, yeah.. I found this recently: 14:56:51 ree: it frustrates me. because once I get the asm written I can redo those parts entirely in forth. 14:56:53 one sec, got to load it from my bookmark 14:57:19 http://www.ynet.com.au/sean/intro.html 14:57:22 slava: yea. mine is GUI only. I even have some public domain unicode fonts that I've collected. 14:57:35 it's a similar project to me 14:57:46 me? mine sorry 14:57:53 except mine is network centric 14:58:02 I want to use something as close to postscript as possible for the draw API. but postscript is kind of a perverted forth. 14:58:19 it's nothing like forth hehe 14:58:22 according to the creator 14:58:28 just RPN and stack based 14:58:34 ree: I would but I don't want the first thing I write in forth to be a tcp/ip stack. that's a bit too ambitious for me. I'm not very good at forth 14:58:45 the similarities are purely cosmetic (according to him) 14:58:54 ree: yea. we need a name for forth-likes. 14:58:59 yeah definitely 14:59:05 since the real hardcore forth people want to live in the 80s 14:59:11 hehe 14:59:16 colorforth is the 200s though 14:59:20 ANS is the 80s :) 14:59:22 2000s 14:59:34 and will fight tooth and nail to allow you to call anything not like a forth written for a 6809 to be called forth 14:59:55 ree: colorforth has an 8bit old school mentality ot it 15:00:00 it's very retro:P 15:00:21 8bit? 15:00:22 hehe 15:00:50 really a 3kB OS doesn't matter to me. because the smallest flash I can order these days with a wide enough bus for the micros I use is 1Mbit. 15:01:07 --- join: rpc (rpc@global.whiteh8.net) joined #forth 15:01:23 have you seen ColdForth ? 15:01:34 no. have you seen StrongForth? 15:01:44 as in StrongARM ? 15:01:46