00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.12.15
00:28:44 --- join: schihei (~schihei@blueice1x.de.ibm.com) joined #forth
01:10:15 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-305a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth
01:37:35 --- join: njd (~junk@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth
01:46:19 <Robert> Hi
02:24:42 --- quit: njd ("Client exiting")
02:45:26 --- join: giuppi (~giuppi@socks1.fastwebnet.it) joined #forth
02:57:35 --- quit: giuppi (Remote closed the connection)
05:08:10 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth
05:41:46 --- quit: I440r ("work is thataway -->")
06:24:30 --- join: I440r (~mark4@saturn.vcsd.com) joined #forth
06:47:52 --- join: rO| (rO_@p508077EE.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
06:48:38 * rO| greets
06:50:23 <rO|> would some1 from .us be so kind to give me "his" www.google.com + news.google.com ip-address?
06:55:10 <I440r> ok, just let me install bind first :)
06:56:40 <rO|> thx.
06:57:25 <rO|> I440r: still got that job btw?
06:58:53 <I440r> ; <<>> DiG 9.2.2 <<>> www.google.com
06:58:54 <I440r> ;; global options:  printcmd
06:58:54 <I440r> ;; Got answer:
06:58:54 <I440r> ;; ->>HEADER<<- opcode: QUERY, status: NOERROR, id: 60020
06:58:54 <I440r> ;; flags: qr rd ra; QUERY: 1, ANSWER: 2, AUTHORITY: 0, ADDITIONAL: 0
06:59:00 <I440r> ;; QUESTION SECTION:
06:59:02 <I440r> ;www.google.com.                        IN      A
06:59:06 <I440r> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
06:59:08 <I440r> www.google.com.         2859    IN      CNAME   www.google.akadns.net.
06:59:12 <I440r> www.google.akadns.net.  114     IN      A       216.239.41.99
06:59:18 <I440r> ;; Query time: 20 msec
06:59:20 <I440r> ;; SERVER: 192.168.128.13#53(192.168.128.13)
06:59:22 <I440r> ;; WHEN: Sun Dec 14 17:02:00 2003
06:59:26 <I440r> ;; MSG SIZE  rcvd: 83
06:59:30 <I440r> contract is going to be coming to a close soon
06:59:42 <I440r> did all of that paste make it ?
06:59:48 <tathi> wow.  I had forgotton how verbose dig is.
07:00:01 <I440r> lol
07:01:18 <I440r> ; ANSWER SECTION:
07:01:18 <I440r> news.google.com.        300     IN      A       216.239.51.104
07:01:23 <I440r> thers news. :)
07:01:28 <rO|> I440r: ok, now i know i will need an us proxy :-( thx anyway
08:10:11 <tathi> hmm...I'd have to say Jeff has been going a bit over the top on c.l.f. lately...
08:11:50 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit)
08:25:52 <I440r> jeff fox ?
08:26:43 <tathi> yah
08:27:36 <tathi> I mean, I don't follow clf, so I don't know all what provocation he has been given, but...
08:28:53 <I440r> well jeff is a radical forther for sure but i trust HIS views more than i trust the ans crowd
08:29:23 <tathi> well yeah, definitely.
08:29:37 <tathi> but his message from yesterday titled "FHG"...?
08:29:54 --- join: aktnot (ident@181.80-202-66.nextgentel.com) joined #forth
08:30:43 --- quit: aktnot (Client Quit)
08:30:46 <tathi> I mean, he _has_ to know there are people on there who aren't going think it's funny.
08:32:59 <tathi> dunno, just seems like his posts from the last couple days have little to no useful forth content and are just aimed at provoking flames.
08:40:03 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth
08:40:14 <kc5tja> I440r: Are you at keyboard?
08:40:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja
08:40:37 <kc5tja> I440r: Are you at keyboard?
08:40:55 <tathi> he was around a few minutes ago...
08:40:57 <kc5tja> I'm fairly confused as to what the problem is with my ELF header at the moment.
08:41:14 <kc5tja> I have a proper string section, I have proper program header sections, and I have a proper set of section headers.
08:41:36 <kc5tja> Yet, running my a.out file will produce only a stack segment; no .text image is loaded into the process space.
08:42:11 <kc5tja> Well, I have to get ready for work, but I'll idle here in case he responds.
08:42:27 * kc5tja was kind of hoping to get a moderately quick response.
08:42:52 <kc5tja> (note I got my info from interpreting /proc/*/maps)
08:43:10 <kc5tja> objdump can see all the sections and program headers perfectly.
08:43:29 <kc5tja> As far as binutils are concerned, it's a well-formed, perfectly valid ELF executable.
08:43:55 <tathi> hmm, sounds like Linux is much more picky about ELFs on x86
08:43:57 --- join: hovil (~matt@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth
08:44:20 <kc5tja> I would imagine that'd extend towards other architectures, not just x86.
08:44:31 <tathi> well, I just looked at my simple ELF header
08:44:33 <kc5tja> But yeah, it's clearly not compliant to the complete ELF standards.
08:44:47 <tathi> I have no section headers, and no string table
08:44:58 <tathi> Just the ELF file header and one program header
08:45:15 <kc5tja> I have to include the section headers and string table to get meaningful output from binutils.
08:45:22 <kc5tja> They're ignored by the Linux loader.
08:45:31 <kc5tja> But I have one program header too, and it is utterly ignored.
08:45:34 <tathi> weird
08:45:44 <kc5tja> Do we need a dummy program header as the first header?
08:46:23 <tathi> not according to the standard...
08:46:55 <kc5tja> Program Header:
08:46:55 <kc5tja>     LOAD off    0x00000034 vaddr 0x08000000 paddr 0x08000000 align 2**2
08:46:55 <kc5tja>          filesz 0x00000015 memsz 0x00004000 flags rwx
08:46:59 <kc5tja> That's what objdump produces.
08:48:10 <kc5tja> The only differences I can see are that the code alignment is not on a page boundary (nor is its alignment set to be 2**12), and it's a writable code segment.
08:48:40 <tathi> Program Header:
08:48:41 <tathi>     LOAD off    0x00000054 vaddr 0x10000054 paddr 0x00000000 align 2**16
08:48:41 <tathi>          filesz 0x0000000c memsz 0x00100000 flags rwx
08:48:44 <kc5tja> I440r says the 'w' flag is ignored by Linux for loadable segments, so I didn't muck with that.
08:48:49 <tathi> that's mine...
08:49:26 <kc5tja> Hmm...  Let me try hacking it to be page aligned...
08:49:30 <kc5tja> See if that helps.
08:50:33 <tathi> one thing...Linux on PPC pretty much just loads it into memory and then executes it, so the code has to start at an address past where the headers are loaded in memory.
08:50:48 <tathi> hence "off 0x00000054 vaddr 0x10000054"
08:54:13 <tathi> but I think that's only because the PPC ABI supplement says that all sections have to be aligned in the file the same way as in memory (mod 64KB) grr...
08:54:31 <kc5tja> So in other words, Linux thoroughly disregards the ELF standards.
08:54:38 <kc5tja> I noticed it does this on x86 too.
08:54:56 <tathi> PPC seems to more or less follow them.
08:54:58 <kc5tja> mod 4K for x86.
08:55:13 <tathi> But there are a couple of things like that which you have to know which aren't in the general SysV standard
08:55:21 <tathi> only in the appropriate processor supplement
08:55:28 <tathi> (which took me forever to find).
08:55:30 <kc5tja> The ELF spec says that each section/segment has its own virtual address, starting at the first byte of the section IN THE FILE, not in mmap()'ed memory.
08:57:26 <kc5tja> I can't imagine why they'd do something so freakin' stupid.
08:57:42 <kc5tja> OK, I have a pretty interesting challenge for me then.
08:57:44 <tathi> makes paging simpler
09:00:08 <tathi> "...delaying physical reads frequently obviates them, improving system performance.  To obtain this efficiency in practice, executable and shared object files must have segment images whose offsets and virtual addresses are congruent, modulo the page size."
09:01:12 <kc5tja> OK, that's what did it -- the virtual address and file offset addresses.
09:01:17 <kc5tja> My code now works!  :)
09:01:23 <I440r> kc cool :)
09:01:32 * I440r was tracking this conversation hehe
09:01:34 <tathi> :)
09:01:39 <I440r> <-- hardly working!
09:01:53 <kc5tja> I440r: No, that is more properly called `supervising.'  :)
09:02:02 <I440r> ooh yea :)
09:02:18 <I440r> see i knew if i supervised you would get it fixed ;)
09:02:29 * I440r steals the credit lol
09:02:34 * kc5tja notes that the section/segment offsets can still be file-related offsets too; it's just that virtual addresses have to be set accordingly too.
09:02:52 <kc5tja> : foo [entry-point] foo ;
09:02:59 <kc5tja> properly hangs the process.  :D
09:03:41 <kc5tja> My next step is to get it to print "Hello World" to the screen.
09:03:44 <kc5tja> I'll try to do that after I get back from work.
09:04:35 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth
09:05:05 <kc5tja> Thanks guys.  OK, I'm off to work now!
09:05:13 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK")
09:05:52 <Serg_Penguin> hi
09:06:19 * Serg_Penguin is restoring WinXP what fell miserably on secretary comp ;((
09:06:51 <I440r> serg i released new isforth WITH kernel.com included
09:07:09 <Serg_Penguin> yeahh ! that rulez !
09:07:29 <I440r> and isforth works in fbsd if you have linux emulation set up right
09:07:45 <I440r> but you prolly have to brandelf -f 03 kernelcom
09:08:07 * Serg_Penguin boots to Linux so rare what i even forgot r00t passwd and set it blanc to avoid lotsa damns
09:08:18 <I440r> lol
09:08:48 * Serg_Penguin is getting a life ;))
09:09:01 <I440r> and a gf ?
09:09:06 <Serg_Penguin> i even busted all da gamezz out of the box ;))
09:09:07 <hovil> why would you want to go and do something crazy like that for
09:09:19 <I440r> lol
09:09:39 <Serg_Penguin> no gf by now ;))
09:09:53 * I440r is working on it 
09:09:59 <Serg_Penguin> ;))
09:10:05 <Serg_Penguin> me 'll work soon too
09:10:06 * I440r has fallen in lust 4 or 5 times since starting this contract
09:10:15 <Serg_Penguin> lust ??
09:10:19 <I440r> lol
09:10:21 <jc> Texas honeys.
09:10:26 <I440r> use dictionary :)
09:10:29 <I440r> yea
09:10:34 <I440r> drool!
09:10:35 <jc> Ride the wild bronc.
09:12:05 <Serg_Penguin> ;))
09:12:48 <Serg_Penguin> i ditched one for trying to 'milk' me for money...
09:13:10 <Serg_Penguin> and another for teaching me how to live too much ;))))
09:13:31 <hovil> Serg_Penguin, I just made it so I had no money to milk
09:13:37 <hovil> that seemed to get rid of all those types
09:14:34 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth
09:14:40 <Serg_Penguin> i decided to re-tread one TV adv star ;))
09:16:26 <Serg_Penguin> i'll start from a nice gift: big skipper's smoking pipe (she smokes)
10:00:27 --- quit: Serg_Penguin ()
10:03:33 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD9E5C566.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
10:27:42 --- quit: tgunr (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
11:05:39 --- quit: rO| ()
11:28:10 <mur> hey
12:04:06 --- join: rO| (rO_@p508077EE.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
12:05:26 <cykotic> hey guys
12:08:17 <tathi> hi cykotic
12:40:16 <tathi> hah.  caldera.com is back up.
12:40:45 * tathi wishes people wouldn't DOS them when I've lost my copy of the SysV ABI.
12:51:26 --- quit: rO| ()
13:03:29 --- quit: tathi ("leaving")
13:12:53 --- quit: hovil ("Leaving")
13:19:49 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit)
14:12:47 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-164-75.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth
15:20:18 --- quit: I440r ("bbl")
15:57:21 --- join: I440r (~mark4@12-160.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth
17:05:06 <Herkamire> how do you read from the mic port on linux? just cat < /dev/dsp?
17:05:33 <MysticOne> Herkamire: umm... no
17:05:35 <MysticOne> Herkamire: it depends
17:05:45 <MysticOne> Herkamire: the older sound drivers would let you cat /dev/audio or something to a file
17:05:49 <Herkamire> what sort of device names should I look for?
17:06:00 <MysticOne> but the newer ones don't do that ... newer ones require some sort of program to actually record from the device
17:07:15 <I440r> newer soundcards are basically winmodem style - they arent HARDWARE, they are SOFWARE
17:07:21 <I440r> thats what ac97 BS is
17:07:33 <MysticOne> no, it's not that
17:07:45 <MysticOne> it's just that the drivers are different now
17:07:54 <MysticOne> they don't do that raw interface type deal anymore due to more advanced features of a lot of cards
17:08:06 <MysticOne> i.e., you used to be able to cat a wav file to /dev/sound or something
17:08:07 <MysticOne> and it'd work
17:08:10 <MysticOne> not anymore though
17:09:21 <Herkamire> so I should look for some software to record?
17:10:12 <MysticOne> audacity
17:10:14 <MysticOne> or sox
17:10:17 <MysticOne> sox for commandline
17:10:19 <MysticOne> audacity for X
17:11:06 <I440r> got a guy running isforth with a monochrome monitor - gets blinking text etc etc - not sure how to handle that
17:11:23 <I440r> thats a pain
17:11:25 <Herkamire> thanks
17:14:07 <OrngeTide> i love monochrome displays. :)
17:14:30 <Herkamire> does isforth require color?
17:17:53 --- quit: fridge (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
17:17:54 --- quit: zardon (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
17:17:54 --- quit: MysticOne (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
17:17:54 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
17:18:00 --- quit: I440r (Remote closed the connection)
17:18:01 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@12-160.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth
17:18:18 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-164-75.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth
17:18:18 --- join: zardon (~zardon@d216-232-233-5.bchsia.telus.net) joined #forth
17:18:18 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth
17:18:18 --- join: MysticOne (mysticone@mysticone.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth
17:26:18 <Herkamire> sox: Failed reading /dev/dsp: Unable to set the sample size to 16
17:26:29 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth
17:28:08 <Herkamire> sox is just reading /dev/dsp
17:28:12 <Herkamire> I can do that myself.
17:28:35 <Herkamire> problem is that the only way I can get that to read from the mic is if I set the mixer to play the mic over my speakers, and I don't want that
17:29:01 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
17:29:01 --- quit: MysticOne (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
17:29:02 --- quit: fridge (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
17:29:03 --- quit: zardon (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
17:29:42 <Herkamire> I was wondering if there could be a seperate device for the mic so I can record it without hearing it.
17:29:59 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-164-75.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth
17:29:59 --- join: zardon (~zardon@d216-232-233-5.bchsia.telus.net) joined #forth
17:29:59 --- join: MysticOne (mysticone@mysticone.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth
17:29:59 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth
17:30:09 <Herkamire> I was wondering if there could be a seperate device for the mic so I can record it without hearing it.
17:34:06 <ianp> http://cgi.tripod.com/lvgandhi/cgi-bin/addfile.pl?lnxmmhnt.txt
17:34:09 <ianp> search for dsp
17:34:48 <ianp> dunno if that helps
17:34:53 <ianp> hehe
17:43:17 <Herkamire> recording /dev/dsp only gets the mic if I set (in the mixer) the mic to be played over the speakers
17:43:26 <OrngeTide> what is the disadvantage to just writing everything in machine forth?
17:43:40 <OrngeTide> sorry. let me give that some context.
17:44:09 <OrngeTide> what is the disadvantage to writing a forth environment for/in machine forth and then rolling some 100 byte emulator for MF
17:44:50 <Herkamire> speed
17:45:10 <OrngeTide> yea. i don't believe in speed.
17:46:45 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576567.sympatico.ca) joined #forth
17:47:00 <MysticOne> Herkamire: huh?  what do you mean set it to be played over the speakers?
17:47:29 --- quit: madgarden (Client Quit)
17:47:37 <OrngeTide> simplicity is something i feel that is important though.
17:47:44 <Herkamire> the only way I was able to record from my mic was to go into aumix, and set the Mic line to P (for play)
17:47:49 <Herkamire> this makes it play on my speakers
17:48:16 <MysticOne> Herkamire: I think that sets it to record
17:48:24 <MysticOne> Herkamire: you'll hear yourself over your speakers
17:48:31 <MysticOne> Herkamire: you can turn down the speakers, though, to make it so you don't hear yourself
17:48:37 <Herkamire> the options are R for recorod, and P for play.
17:48:42 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576567.sympatico.ca) joined #forth
17:48:43 <OrngeTide> maybe MF is the right choice for me. but i still have this gut instinct that i don't like it. and i'm not sure why.
17:48:45 <Herkamire> it only records (and plays on the speakers) on P
17:49:07 --- quit: madgarden (Client Quit)
17:49:10 <OrngeTide> maybe because MF really doesn't solve anything.
17:49:14 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576567.sympatico.ca) joined #forth
17:49:17 --- quit: madgarden (Remote closed the connection)
17:49:24 <OrngeTide> just shifts the problem around.
17:49:26 * OrngeTide shrugs
17:49:29 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576567.sympatico.ca) joined #forth
17:49:42 <Herkamire> brb
17:49:48 <MysticOne> Herkamire: what kind of sound card?
17:49:51 <madgarden> burbleflies
17:50:39 <madgarden> zardon: Heh, I actually managed to watch all of Zardoz last night.
17:52:17 <Herkamire> PowerMac Screamer DMA sound driver rev 016 :
17:52:59 <Herkamire> I've hooked a radio to my mic port and I would like to be able to record shows without hearing them
17:53:26 <Herkamire> because I would like to have the computer automatically start recording at the right time, and I don't want to hear the radio whenever my speakers are on
17:56:16 <zardon> madgarden: heh, cool. was it on space?
17:56:55 <Herkamire> OrngeTide: I think there is value in having a simple forth environment. I don't knom machine forth but I think it fits the description
17:57:06 <madgarden> Yep. Heh, I love that channel. I went to the website just to watch those freaky little mutant baby movies.
17:57:41 <zardon> those Ryerson shorts?
17:58:06 <OrngeTide> Herkamire: you don't know machine forth? it's just the basic instruction set for MuP21 or F21, usually tweaked slightly to make it less work to use. (it's not an emulator/simulator)
17:58:16 <madgarden> Ryerson? I dunno... they are usually shown just before a new show starts. They're rather weird.
17:58:26 <zardon> yeah
17:58:30 <zardon> film students
17:58:39 <Herkamire> OrngeTide: ok, I am somewhat farmilliar with the instruction set of the 25x thing
17:58:41 <madgarden> You sure? They all have the same character in them.
17:58:52 <OrngeTide> so you define like 24-30 opcodes and then your entire system can be done, without the use of any embedded machine-code in your words.
17:59:38 <OrngeTide> i wish i could find this damn link. someone wrote a machine forth that fit into an x86 boot sector.
18:00:00 <OrngeTide> it didn't do much. but it was a small asm MF and a bit of forth. kinda cool :)
18:00:20 <OrngeTide> smaller code, I think, typically implies simplicity. 
18:00:31 <OrngeTide> at least statisticaly it's less code to possibly have bugs:)
18:00:44 <Herkamire> maan, I want to discuss this, but dinner's ready. I'll catch up when I get back
18:01:04 <OrngeTide> ehhe.
18:01:11 <OrngeTide> i gotta go anyways. i'm still at work. ttyl
18:11:33 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth
18:11:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja
18:23:51 --- quit: fridge (Remote closed the connection)
18:35:07 <MysticOne> hey!  kc is here!
18:35:14 * MysticOne thinks about what thing to say sucks today
18:35:15 <MysticOne> j/k
18:35:16 <MysticOne> :)
18:39:56 <kc5tja> Funny you say that because I'm getting hungry now.
18:40:13 <MysticOne> and hunger... sucks?
18:40:19 * kc5tja is thinking of heading out to grab something to eat.
18:40:23 <kc5tja> Yes, hunger sucks.
18:40:38 <MysticOne> you could eat...
18:40:40 * MysticOne thinks
18:40:55 <MysticOne> how long has it been since you had a tuna, steak, and cheese sammich? :)
18:41:32 * chandler is eating tomato soup and a package of club & cheddar cracker sandwiches
18:41:56 <MysticOne> chandler: what does club taste like?
18:41:59 <MysticOne> like golf club?
18:42:01 <MysticOne> night club?
18:42:07 <chandler> no, club crackers
18:42:19 <kc5tja> MysticOne: Those saltine clue bats, you know?
18:42:23 <MysticOne> kc5tja: hehehe
18:42:27 <kc5tja> MysticOne: Not too long, actually.
18:42:35 <MysticOne> kc5tja: oh, I hadn't heard you talk about one in a while
18:42:38 <MysticOne> kc5tja: always sounded good
18:42:41 * kc5tja nods
18:42:59 <kc5tja> I normally get tuna, turkey, and cheese now though -- just to reduce red meat intake.
18:43:09 <MysticOne> but red meat is so red :(
18:43:22 <kc5tja> I know, and I love red meat.  But, irritable bowel syndrome and all that..
18:43:35 <MysticOne> wouldn't all veggies be better?
18:43:48 <kc5tja> Perhaps, but all-veggies doesn't fill me up.
18:43:55 <kc5tja> It doesn't satisfy me like meat does.
18:44:07 <MysticOne> I'm still trying more stuff with tofu
18:44:10 <MysticOne> that's a hard thing to cook
18:44:23 <kc5tja> Yeah, you have to marinate it for like 24 hours or somehting, I heard.
18:44:58 <MysticOne> well, Alton Brown on Good Eats said as long as you squeeze all the moisture out first, you can marinate it for like an hour
18:45:05 <MysticOne> (firm tofu)
18:45:13 <MysticOne> I made some and put it in chili
18:45:16 <MysticOne> which cooked for about 4 hours
18:45:19 <kc5tja> Well, how do you squeeze the moisture out and still have it be in neat little cubes?
18:45:21 <MysticOne> I figured that'd be enough time for it to absorb some flavor
18:45:31 <MysticOne> kc5tja: you wrap it in paper towels and put a weight on top of it
18:45:38 <MysticOne> like a cookie sheet with something heavy on it
18:45:44 <MysticOne> it gently squeezes the water out
18:45:46 <kc5tja> But that still deforms it though.
18:46:08 <madgarden> I made some pickled eggs on the weekend.
18:46:33 <MysticOne> kc5tja: no it doesn't
18:46:41 <MysticOne> kc5tja: (this is before you cut it into cubes, btw)
18:46:43 <MysticOne> its' when you have a block
18:46:49 <kc5tja> MysticOne: Ahh.
18:47:03 <MysticOne> the worst problem, though, wasn't flavor
18:47:05 <MysticOne> it was the texture
18:47:11 <MysticOne> I'm going to see if I can get some TVP next time
18:47:17 <kc5tja> TVP?
18:48:02 <MysticOne> textured vegetable protein ... basically granulated soy 
18:48:05 <MysticOne> makes it feel like hamburger
18:48:11 <kc5tja> Ahh
18:48:20 * kc5tja was thinking transvestite pickles or something.
18:48:28 <MysticOne> no, I don't put those in chili
18:48:31 <MysticOne> those go in something else
18:48:40 * MysticOne grins
18:48:43 <kc5tja> I'm afraid to know what though.  :)
18:49:15 <MysticOne> like, on a plate with a salad
18:49:18 <MysticOne> err, sandwich
18:49:19 <MysticOne> and chps
18:49:23 <MysticOne> >:)
18:49:24 <MysticOne> btw ...
18:49:30 <MysticOne> did you know the US produces 2/3s of the world's soy?
18:49:39 * MysticOne did research
18:49:43 <kc5tja> No.
18:49:53 <MysticOne> actually produce 2/3s of it ... and we use it as animal feed
18:50:03 <MysticOne> seems counterproductive :)
18:50:08 <kc5tja> Ahh
18:52:02 <kc5tja> I'd rather use the majority of it for fuel production purposes, and kiss those oil producers overseas goodbye.
18:52:19 <kc5tja> But that will never happen.
18:52:30 <kc5tja> And I digress.  I'll be going for a bit -- food time.
18:52:37 * kc5tja is away: dinner
19:03:44 --- quit: tathi ("leaving")
19:06:00 <Herkamire> MysticOne: still at work?
19:06:25 <MysticOne> me?
19:06:31 <MysticOne> I haven't been at work for like 4 1/2 hours
19:06:45 <Herkamire> 21:01 < OrngeTide> i gotta go anyways. i'm still at work. ttyl
19:07:13 <Herkamire> oops, that is somebody else :)
19:07:20 <MysticOne> yeah, that's not me :)
19:07:21 <MysticOne> hehehe
19:27:31 <warp0x00> sup dudes
19:36:06 <MysticOne> not much, dudette
19:45:06 <warp0x00> i am not a female
19:45:30 <madgarden> warp0x00 nads drop
19:45:34 <madgarden> now you are. ;)
19:45:56 <MysticOne> warp0x00: hey baby!
19:46:00 * MysticOne chuckles
20:03:18 * kc5tja is back (gone 01:10:41)
20:03:39 <kc5tja> I'm back
20:03:52 <MysticOne> I thought you were kc5tja
20:04:22 <kc5tja> Soon I'll be satiated.
20:05:24 <MysticOne> wow
20:05:26 <MysticOne> you change names a lot
20:05:36 <MysticOne> one of our salespeople wants to sell me a Yaesu HT
20:05:43 <kc5tja> After I become satiated, I'll probably become tired.
20:05:44 <MysticOne> says it's brand new and does 6m, 2m, 70cm, 23cm ....
20:05:48 <MysticOne> for $250
20:05:49 <kc5tja> And then probably 'sleeping.'
20:06:03 <kc5tja> What model?
20:06:17 <MysticOne> I'm not sure exactly
20:06:19 <MysticOne> he said, but I don't remember
20:06:24 * kc5tja heard Yaesu's made fairly good HTs, and rugged.
20:06:33 <MysticOne> oh yeah
20:06:36 <MysticOne> this one is water resistent
20:06:46 <MysticOne> I think it's submersible
20:07:15 * kc5tja chooses Kenwood for the base station.  I'd choose Icom for automotive or marine mobile.  And Yaesu for HTs, I think.
20:07:22 <kc5tja> Each company has found their niche.
20:07:36 <kc5tja> Though, Yaesu also makes a kick-butt base station too -- the 1000MP.  :)
20:08:33 <MysticOne> I like my little Alinco
20:08:36 <MysticOne> I need to put it in my car
20:08:49 <kc5tja> I know one thing is for sure: one of the first things I am going to code in FS/Forth is a serial port controller for my rig.  :)
20:09:00 <MysticOne> hehehe
20:10:18 <kc5tja> I've heard decent things about Alinco rigs too.
20:10:27 <kc5tja> It's just that I don't know if they've cornered a niche yet.
20:10:41 <MysticOne> I dunno
20:10:51 <MysticOne> it's pretty easy to use, small, easy to read ...
20:10:56 <MysticOne> and uses RJ-45 for the Mic plug :)
20:11:12 <kc5tja> Nice.
20:11:14 <kc5tja> Cheap.
20:11:14 <kc5tja> :)
20:11:22 <kc5tja> And thus, easy to hack/replace if damaged.
20:11:47 <kc5tja> I still think ham radio gear ought to start using XLR connectors though.
20:11:48 <MysticOne> yeah
20:12:12 <kc5tja> While more expensive ($8 for an adapter at Radio Shack!), they *rock*.  And the audio signal is balanced, so it's less affected by stray RF.
20:12:59 <kc5tja> And they're quick (dis)connect too -- faster than BNC connectors, I think.
20:13:21 <MysticOne> w00t
20:14:52 <warp0x00> this is not funny
20:15:13 <MysticOne> warp0x00: yes it is
20:15:14 <MysticOne> I mean ...
20:15:15 <MysticOne> what?
20:15:48 <warp0x00> ill rape your face\
20:15:55 <MysticOne> bring it on!
20:16:10 <kc5tja> Now THAT would be funny.
20:16:21 * kc5tja can sell that on the Internet.
20:16:25 <MysticOne> hehehe
20:16:27 <MysticOne> it'd be short
20:16:27 <MysticOne> :)
20:16:29 <warp0x00> yes kc5tja you can
20:16:40 <kc5tja> Sell anything on the Internet it seems.
20:17:08 <MysticOne> <warp0x00> HIIIIYAH!  TAKE THIS!  *thrusts forward*  <biting noise>  
20:17:20 --- join: jdrake (~GodlessHo@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth
20:17:20 --- part: jdrake left #forth
20:17:25 <MysticOne> <MysticOne> That'll teach you to try and rape my face
20:17:47 <warp0x00> MysticOne: fine... i'll rape you in the ass then
20:17:50 <kc5tja> Wait a minute...
20:18:01 <warp0x00> you'll feel my hearbeat against your rectal wall untill you bleed
20:18:14 <kc5tja> Since MysticOne said "Bring it on!", that implies consent between the parties involved.  Hence, it's no longer rape.  
20:18:22 <kc5tja> Sorry MysticOne -- you're on your own on this one.
20:18:25 <MysticOne> kc5tja: it's because I'm teaching him a lesson :)
20:18:38 <MysticOne> warp0x00: too late, you tried the face rape, and I defended myself
20:18:42 <MysticOne> so there's no ass rape now 
20:19:05 <kc5tja> warp0x00: Yeah -- it imploded.  :)
20:19:14 <kc5tja> It made a nice *foop!* sound.  :)
20:19:40 <warp0x00> fine
20:19:44 <kc5tja> That's why MysticOne's so up-tight.  *ducks*
20:19:58 <warp0x00> ill overcome your soul with love and happyness untill you kill yourself
20:20:10 * kc5tja rotflmfo!
20:20:14 <MysticOne> warp0x00: wouldn't I feel loved and happy and *not* want to kill myself?
20:20:22 <warp0x00> yes
20:20:58 <MysticOne> so ...
20:20:58 <MysticOne> okay
20:21:00 <MysticOne> umm...
20:21:02 <MysticOne> love me?
20:21:16 <kc5tja> Oh gawd...
20:21:21 <MysticOne> wait, lemme check with my wife if it's okay if a stranger on IRC fills my soul with love and happiness
20:21:25 * kc5tja throws tomatoes at MysticOne for that one.
20:21:59 <MysticOne> she said no
20:22:03 <MysticOne> oh well
20:22:06 <MysticOne> sorry to disappoint, warp0x00 :(
20:22:30 <warp0x00> there is nothing you can do about it
20:22:54 <kc5tja> MysticOne: Your wife will be your downfall.
20:23:06 <warp0x00> yeah
20:23:15 <warp0x00> she's a total cockblock
20:23:29 <kc5tja> Whoa...things are gettin' steamy in here.
20:23:44 <MysticOne> well, I'm so hot, and warp wants me :(  so I guess he's frustrated
20:24:02 <warp0x00> actually
20:24:07 <warp0x00> ill just rape your wife
20:24:16 <warp0x00> and any children you may have
20:24:21 <MysticOne> warp0x00: may she have mercy on your soul
20:24:27 <I440r_> lol
20:25:28 <I440r_> alt.sex.forth :)
20:25:38 <MysticOne> I440r_: hehe
20:26:04 <MysticOne> or alt.warp0x00.needs.to.get.laid.so.he.can.stop.hitting.on.people.on.irc.and.saying.he.wants.to.fuck.their.wives.and.children
20:26:10 <MysticOne> or get a life
20:26:11 <MysticOne> one or the other
20:26:41 <warp0x00> okay
20:26:45 <warp0x00> you are on a chat about forth
20:26:49 <warp0x00> dont tell me to get a life
20:26:59 <MysticOne> warp0x00: you're on IRC, pot calling the kettle black
20:27:09 <MysticOne> (and also in said channel)
20:27:11 <warp0x00> 10 POT
20:27:14 <warp0x00> 20 KETTLE
20:27:18 <warp0x00> 30 BLACK
20:27:23 <warp0x00> 40 GOTO 10
20:27:26 <MysticOne> hehe
20:27:31 <MysticOne> that's for #basic
20:27:39 <warp0x00> is there a #basic ?
20:27:49 <MysticOne> heck if I know
20:43:05 <zardon> - /join #basic  will tell you :)
20:48:35 <jc> On the subject of Alincos, I've had a couple.  The DJ-610T was a decent radio, but the front end was easily overloaded.  And it had a UI only a Japanese person could love.  However, the DJ-235T is very usable (220 rig)
20:49:23 <MysticOne> I have, umm... a DR-605?
20:49:24 <MysticOne> I think that's it
20:49:25 <MysticOne> 2m/70cm
20:49:38 * warp0x00 wishes he was smart enough to be a ham
20:49:56 <jc> I don't see a quad-bander in Yaesus current line up.
20:51:40 <jc> They have a triple bander, the VX-7R, but no 23cm on it.
20:51:51 <jc> And I think the 220 output on the VX-7R is like 200mw.
20:54:18 <jc> I think I threw away my HRO catalog.  I picked up a Kenwood TH-F6A at the last hamfest.  I later looked at another HT, and was really glad I hadn't gotten it, because of the low power output on 220.
20:56:37 <jc> Utilizing a reliable FET power amplifier circuit, the VX-7R provides a full 5 Watts of power output on the 50, 144, and 430 MHz Amateur bands, with bonus coverage of the 222 MHz band at 300 mW (USA version only). And for 6-meter AM enthusiasts, you also get 1 Watt of carrier power on the 50 MHz band. Four power levels may be selected, each offering its own degree of battery conservation.
20:56:40 <jc> VX-7R.
20:57:07 <jc> That must be the one your buddy is trying to sell you.  $250 is a decent price, if it's in like new condition.  I think they're about $325 new.
20:57:31 <jc> $309 from HRO.
20:58:07 * MysticOne jams out to LTE
20:58:39 <MysticOne> yeah, I think that's right
20:58:43 <MysticOne> I can't buy it though
20:58:45 <MysticOne> don't have $250 :)
20:58:48 <jc> :(
21:00:42 <warp0x00> the dude in #basic is totally nuts guys
21:01:46 <MysticOne> yeah, I can imagine
21:02:02 <kc5tja> Heh
21:02:21 <warp0x00> no seriously
21:02:29 <warp0x00> we had some quick conversation
21:02:34 <warp0x00> and then he just went nuts
21:03:15 <jc> No in this channel ever goes nuts.
21:03:22 <jc> (python sucks!)
21:03:42 * jc ducks into a spider hole
21:04:03 <kc5tja> Fucking moron...  *grumbles*
21:04:04 <kc5tja> ;D
21:04:18 <kc5tja> j/k :)
21:04:37 <jc> Hey, your opinion on perl is worth no more and no less than my opinion on Python.  So I don't wanna hear about it.
21:04:43 <MysticOne> oh yeah?
21:04:45 <MysticOne> well forth sucks
21:04:49 <MysticOne> know why?
21:04:51 <MysticOne> because I don't know it
21:04:53 <MysticOne> that's why
21:04:54 <ianp> beats perl
21:05:05 <MysticOne> I'll raise your perl with a forth and a fortran
21:05:10 <jc> Uhhhh, just out of curiosity, MysticOne, why are you here, then?
21:05:13 * ianp COBOLs all over MysticOne 
21:05:25 <MysticOne> jc: well, a while back, I was going to work on learning forth
21:05:28 <MysticOne> and kc is a good friend of mine
21:05:30 <MysticOne> so I figured I'd hang out
21:05:32 <jc> ah, cool.
21:05:37 * kc5tja shuts all your asses up by raising your COBOL with two INTERCALs and a BrainFuck.
21:05:37 <MysticOne> then I saw that forth gets talked about 2% of the time in this channel
21:05:39 <MysticOne> and I kinda forgot
21:05:41 <MysticOne> :)
21:05:54 <warp0x00> [22:04:43] --- ryno sets mode +Q #basic
21:05:54 * jc countattacks with XPL0 compiled for a 6800
21:06:25 * MysticOne counters with holarith cards!
21:06:31 <MysticOne> I think that's spelled right
21:06:37 <jc> Nope.
21:06:44 <kc5tja> DENIED!!!
21:06:46 <MysticOne> oh
21:06:49 * MysticOne is the weakest link
21:06:52 <MysticOne> good bye :(
21:06:59 <jc> Hollerith
21:07:00 <kc5tja> That's 200 Monopoly dollars from MysticOne.
21:07:14 <kc5tja> Or, Microsoft Money.
21:07:34 <jc> Just like I trust MS with my PC security, I'd trust them with my money.
21:08:07 <Herkamire> jc: yeah, they'll probably use it to put some quality software company out of business
21:08:21 * jc likes Quicken
21:11:19 <jc> You know, I basically like Zilog.  But sometimes...  I'm playing with the ez80 Acclaim! board and OS + TCP/IP stack.  The OS is actually Xinu.  But they kindly don't tell me what the idle task does.  Does it spin?  Does it put the chip in low power mode?  Does it do seti@home?  Who knows!
21:16:01 <warp0x00> Zilog is the shit
21:16:09 * warp0x00 still runs OASIS/THEOS
21:16:31 * kc5tja hates Zilog.
21:16:49 <kc5tja> The Z-80 is the biggest screwup of a processor, second only to the 8086.
21:16:55 <kc5tja> (and it clearly inspired the 8086)
21:17:25 <warp0x00> the Z-80 is da bomb
21:17:27 <jc> Is there anything you *do* like?
21:17:32 <warp0x00> forth
21:17:46 * kc5tja is a fan of the 6502 personally, though it isn't a perfect CPU either.
21:17:57 <kc5tja> But I find it to be easier to program than the Z-80 by a long shot.  Certainly more convenint.
21:18:01 <kc5tja> convenient.
21:18:27 <jc> I'll give it it's 0 page operators.  I sure as hell won't give it anything for it's stack.
21:18:32 * Herkamire eliminates a distracting blinking 12:00 by unplugging his new shitty sterio.
21:18:59 <kc5tja> While true, I find it is rarely an issue.
21:19:15 <kc5tja> In fact, in all the years I've programmed a 6502 box of some kind, I've never had an issue with a 256-byte stack.
21:19:20 <Herkamire> I want simple hardware
21:19:27 <kc5tja> (though, I note the 65816 has a 64K stack size)
21:19:40 <warp0x00> 0 page
21:19:47 <warp0x00> i remember someone telling me about 0 page
21:20:00 <warp0x00> i dont remember them saying nice things about it
21:20:08 <kc5tja> But the 6502 is faster than the Z-80 anyway, clock for clock, even without its zero page.
21:20:16 <kc5tja> I *love* zero-page.
21:20:44 <warp0x00> im a fan of MOVE
21:20:45 <jc> Sorry, I'll trade a little speed for the convience of real 16 bit index registers.
21:20:45 <warp0x00> i want one
21:22:02 <kc5tja> Not me.  I'll trade 16-bit index registers for simpler, faster, cheaper hardware any day.
21:23:09 <jc> Not sure where there's a "simpler" and "cheaper" difference.  Having just bought Z80s and 6502s, they're about the same price.  And there's little difference in the amount of glue logic required to build a system out of either.
21:23:28 <Herkamire> On his aha page Jeff Fox ways saying that one could manufacture his F21 chip in low quantities for about $1/chip. anybody know what "low quantities" might be?
21:23:49 <jc> prolly ~1000
21:24:18 <jc> In fact, 6522 VIAs are more expensive than Z80 PIOs.
21:24:30 <kc5tja> jc: When the Z-80 was introduced, it cost $250.  When the 6502 was introduced, it cost $25.
21:24:43 <jc> BFD.  Everything was cheaper 2 years later.
21:24:45 <kc5tja> And it's got a much, much simpler bus architecture.
21:24:52 <jc> With the 8080 came out, it was $800
21:24:52 * I440r_ loves 6502
21:25:12 <I440r_> a9 01 85 02 20 12 34 6c 01 ff
21:25:17 <I440r_> anyone see the bug ??? :)
21:25:25 <kc5tja> I440r_: Yes.
21:25:35 <kc5tja> I440r_: However, it's fixed in the 65816.
21:25:47 <I440r_> they ruined it !!!!!!!!!!!!!
21:25:48 <I440r_> lol
21:26:08 <I440r_> did they also fix the x2 crash ?
21:26:15 <kc5tja> I440r_: Huh?
21:26:21 <jc> Now, what I have a line on is some of the original Rockwell 6502 Forth chips.  A friend of mine in Sri Lanka has about 40 of them, and has set aside 10 of them for me.
21:26:33 <I440r_> thers only one X2 opcode and that $a2
21:26:43 <I440r_> every other x2 instruction would CRASH the processor
21:26:45 <I440r_> HARD
21:27:16 <I440r_> jc mjy dad has a 68cc11f :)
21:27:20 <kc5tja> I440r_: All 256 opcodes are used in the 65816, though one is just a place holder for multi-byte opcodes in the future, and one is for triggering a hardware coprocessor.
21:27:22 <I440r_> or is ut a 65fhc11 ?
21:27:39 <I440r_> er 68 i mean
21:27:45 <jc> 68hc11, maybe?
21:27:45 <I440r_> 68hc11f i think
21:27:52 <I440r_> with an F on the end
21:27:55 <I440r_> for "FORTH"
21:28:07 <I440r_> it has a built in rom programmed with forth
21:28:23 <Herkamire> my forth is native code, because speed is important to me (and it seemed straightforeward.)
21:28:24 <jc> I don't think it's the same part, but I have a 68HC11 card I picked up from the guy at the Microship.com project that's Forth based.  I think it has MPE's forth in it.
21:28:32 <kc5tja> I440r_: There is also a 65F11 too.  Same thing basically; 6502 with an internal Forth ROM.
21:28:42 <Herkamire> now I'm thinking that to get real fast code (easily) you need an optomizer
21:28:42 <jc> That's the one i"ve got a line on.
21:28:54 <I440r_> coola
21:28:56 <jc> It's in the zig-zag package, as I recall.
21:29:05 <jc> Like the Rockwell modem chip.
21:29:06 <Herkamire> and I'm thinking that the easies thing to optomize is probably not going to be native code.
21:29:35 <kc5tja> Herkamire: Optimizers are anything but trivial.
21:29:55 <kc5tja> Herkamire: You need to build dataflow graphs and such from the Forth code, examine how code is used to optimize register usage, et. al. 
21:30:05 <kc5tja> Herkamire: It's doable (RAFTS), but not easy.
21:30:19 <warp0x00> kc5tja: no shit optimization is an excercise
21:30:57 <kc5tja> But I'm quite happy with FS/Forth's performance -- almost exactly 1/2 that of optimized GCC output (GCC 3.2.2)
21:31:04 <Herkamire> I'm thinking that I could just make it so that optomizition could be added later
21:31:20 <Herkamire> kc5tja: very good :)
21:31:29 <kc5tja> :)
21:32:12 <Herkamire> I'm thinking that probably about 1% of the code is going to be run enough that optomizing would be nice.
21:32:30 <Herkamire> I want a system that automatically optomizes things that run a lot
21:32:54 <kc5tja> My philosophy on optimizers is the same as for Lisp: don't bother with integrating a super-duper compiler into the core environment.
21:33:17 <kc5tja> Profile first, then when you do need to optimize, you can give hints to the optimizer (in Forth terms, you use a totally different compiler).
21:34:14 <Herkamire> I'm thinking normally I'll use a very simple, unoptomized aproach. and when something needs to be optomized, it will.
21:34:42 * kc5tja nods
21:34:48 <kc5tja> I do only basic peephole optimization in my output.
21:34:54 <kc5tja> E.g., if I have 45 +
21:35:14 <kc5tja> instead of creating: sub esi,4; mov [esi],eax; mov eax,45; add eax,[esi]; add esi,4
21:35:22 <kc5tja> it'll create add eax,45 instead.
21:35:29 <kc5tja> That's where much of my performance comes from.
21:35:32 <Herkamire> I was thinking about doing that.
21:35:45 <kc5tja> It isn't terribly hard to implement either.
21:35:47 <Herkamire> for + - * / anyway
21:36:13 <kc5tja> When FS/Forth is officially 'done' enough for public dissemination, I'll show you the sources to see how it's done.
21:36:16 <Herkamire> no, I can check the last 2 instructions to look for pushing a 16 bit literal onto the stack
21:36:21 <jc> You should be able to handle left and right shift, too.
21:36:33 <kc5tja> jc: Yep.
21:36:59 <kc5tja> Herkamire: That's how I do it.  But because of x86's variable length instructions, I maintain a pseudo-queue of "most recently generated instructions," so to speak.
21:37:17 <Herkamire> I don't know much about how to do a good optomizer. I don't feel it is even enough to sortof leave room for it.
21:37:29 <Herkamire> kc5tja: neat :)
21:37:48 <I440r_> (FORTHCMP compiled programs are claimed to be faster than C).
21:37:55 <kc5tja> Herkamire: I have little to no desire to include a speed optimizer in my Forth.
21:37:57 <warp0x00> so does gcc have a forth frontend then?
21:37:57 <I440r_> from emarcel hendrix pag
21:37:58 <I440r_> argh
21:38:12 <I440r_> from marcel hendrix's page
21:38:17 <Herkamire> I can just check 6 of the previous 8 bytes to see that they match push load-immediat xxx
21:38:35 <kc5tja> warp0x00: No.  Not officially made by GNU at least.  FORTHCMP is a research tool, intended to study ways of making Forth run faster.
21:38:46 <warp0x00> oic
21:38:57 <kc5tja> Herkamire: I do other kinds of optimizations too; constant folding is just one of the things I do.
21:39:19 <Herkamire> kc5tja: that's the path I'm headed for now
21:39:19 <kc5tja> Another is DUP DROP optimization, DROP <literal> optimization, etc.
21:40:11 <warp0x00> dont you mean <literal> DROP ?
21:40:20 <Herkamire> a lot of optimizations can be done just by looking at the last few instructions
21:40:57 <Herkamire> warp0x00: no he doesn't
21:41:08 <warp0x00> oic
21:41:09 <warp0x00> okay
21:41:10 <warp0x00> then
21:41:18 <I440r_> well i wish he would give some better examples than just a cheezy lame hello world
21:41:23 <kc5tja> warp0x00: No, though that's another possibility, but it's so rare, that I probably won't bother with it.
21:42:07 <warp0x00> kc5tja: do you want to not talk about that thing anymore?
21:42:16 <warp0x00> sorry if i am boring you
21:42:28 <kc5tja> Nahh; my mind is kind of reeling right now.
21:42:58 <warp0x00> well i wouldnt want to do anything thats been done before lol
21:43:39 * kc5tja nods
21:44:00 <jc> Oh, yea I remember.  It wasn't MPE on that 68HC11, I think it was New Micros.
21:44:14 <I440r_> prolly the same one cuz that sounds familiar
21:44:30 <I440r_> i never messed with it, i dont like the hc11 line of controllers
21:44:54 <I440r_> i hate the way they automatically push all registers onto the stack on interrupt
21:45:03 <warp0x00> i still want to own a MOVE chip
21:45:08 <I440r_> thats DUMB - what if your interrupt doesnt USE thosee registers
21:45:16 <I440r_> you just wasted time and stack space
21:45:34 <kc5tja> I440r_: Then use those registers, for something, then you won't have an excuse.  :D
21:45:40 <I440r_> lol
21:45:47 <I440r_> grrr :P
21:45:54 <kc5tja> I think that is the basic behavior fo the 6809 is it not?
21:45:56 <I440r_> i like the 8051 much better :)
21:46:08 <I440r_> thats motorola for ya
21:46:16 <kc5tja> I440r_: 68000 doesn't do that.  :)
21:46:20 <I440r_> motorola processors are better
21:46:32 <I440r_> kc5 motorola processors rock. their controllers SUCK ass
21:46:38 <warp0x00> motorola is a shitty company
21:46:39 <I440r_> filp that statement for intel
21:46:45 <kc5tja> But the 6811 is the same core as the 6809.
21:47:01 <kc5tja> I'm thinking the 6809 also saves all registers on interrupt.
21:47:02 <kc5tja> I can't remember for sure though.
21:47:17 <I440r_> its not a big deal really - it just buggs me lol
21:47:25 <kc5tja> All I know is that i never really liked the 6809 -- too much like a hodgepodge of cool and useless stuff.
21:47:48 <kc5tja> The 68010, OTOH, is, as far as I'm concerned, the world's best CISC processor ever designed.
21:48:08 <I440r_> i like the 020
21:48:18 <I440r_> erm did the VBR come in on the 010 or the 020 ?
21:48:21 <kc5tja> 010
21:48:40 <I440r_> once they gave it a vbr it rocked
21:48:40 <warp0x00> lol macintoshes used those
21:48:43 <I440r_> life begins at 68040 - senility begins at 86
21:48:48 <kc5tja> Well, even ignorign that, the 68010 had better instruction timings for some things, and its loop mode was quite nice.
21:49:12 <kc5tja> Macintoshes used 68000s all the way through to 68040s.
21:49:20 <kc5tja> Amigas used 68000 through to 68060s though.  :)
21:49:23 <I440r_> my amiga 1200 used the 020
21:49:35 <I440r_> i loved that box :(
21:49:39 * kc5tja nods
21:49:39 * I440r_ misses his amiga
21:50:05 * kc5tja still has his Amiga 500, with its monsterous 120MB harddrive, and egregrious 7.15909MHz 68000 processor.  :D
21:50:12 <I440r_> lol i made a cable to allow me to put a full sized hard drive in it - but i could never get the box closed after taht heh
21:50:21 <warp0x00> so anywone else in here wanna see if they can grok my insanity?
21:50:47 <jc> 68K couldn't afford to stack all the registers in an interrupt.  Too many, and it was too damn slow as it was.
21:51:36 <I440r_> job im doing now uses the coldfire which is a 68k derivative - i dont know much about it tho
21:51:39 <kc5tja> At the time, it was a royal powerhouse.
21:51:49 <kc5tja> Coldfire rocks too, though not as much.
21:51:54 <I440r_> ive only made like 8 code defs
21:52:10 <kc5tja> Take a 68000, strip it of all CISC-like features, leaving only its RISC-like features.  Optimize hardware so instructions run in single cycle time.
21:52:18 <I440r_> this coldfier is like 28465278364578235 times more processing power than this app needs
21:52:29 <I440r_> which is good cuz they are going to need it cuz they have almost ZERO design lol
21:52:45 <kc5tja> The interesting thing is, each time they introduce a new ColdFire, they re-introduce one aspect of the original 68000 line.  :)
21:52:53 <I440r_> :)
21:53:12 <I440r_> so they are saying ... if it aint broke why did we fix it ?>
21:53:14 <I440r_> lol
21:53:18 <kc5tja> I think it's Motorola's attempt to redesign the 68000 slowly over time, so that it can keep up with competitor's products.
21:53:54 <kc5tja> No, the 68000 core was more or less broke, in that it tried to do too much (shades of 6809).  It was basically a PDP-11 on a chip, only it wasn't compatible with the PDP-11.  :D
21:53:56 <I440r_> its them saying "do we make something new or recycle something old"
21:54:08 <kc5tja> The ColdFire is more along the lines of, "OK, we made a mistake in the past, now we're fixing it."
21:54:19 <I440r_> ok :)
21:54:55 <kc5tja> I think modern ColdFire's have something like 80 to 90% compatibility with user-mode 68000 software now-a-days.
21:55:02 <kc5tja> And nearly all the instructions are single-cycle in execution time.
21:55:02 <I440r_> hrm if someone doing seti@home FINDS something do they get a prize ?? :)
21:55:08 <I440r_> no im not doing seti at home lol
21:55:18 <kc5tja> Yes.
21:55:31 <warp0x00> yes
21:55:35 <kc5tja> You get world recognition for having helped discover ETI.
21:55:36 <MysticOne> I should do Seti@home
21:55:37 <warp0x00> they get their name on something
21:55:43 <MysticOne> use up some spare cycles on this big ol' G5
21:55:45 <warp0x00> i do seti
21:55:49 <I440r_> it sounds too much like "train spotting"
21:55:51 <I440r_> lol
21:55:54 <MysticOne> I440r_: that movie was great
21:55:59 <MysticOne> in a ... weird way
21:56:03 <warp0x00> i belive if we find ETI it could save the human race
21:56:03 <I440r_> err no
21:56:05 <jc> They problem with the Coldfire, at least what I remember from last time I looked at, is like the PPC.  Requires too much support hardware.
21:56:10 <I440r_> train spotters are lame
21:56:10 <kc5tja> Well, Arecibo is no more, so no new data is being collected.
21:56:14 <jc> Perhaps they have a single chip solution now, I don't know.
21:56:19 <MysticOne> kc5tja: wha?  why?
21:56:24 <MysticOne> when did it go away?
21:56:25 <kc5tja> MysticOne: No money.
21:56:29 <kc5tja> MysticOne: Last year.
21:56:30 <MysticOne> grrrr
21:56:35 <MysticOne> stupid government
21:56:46 <warp0x00> it might be they get a new array however
21:56:55 <MysticOne> yeah
21:56:57 <MysticOne> I swear
21:57:08 <MysticOne> governments are never going to understand anything important
21:57:09 <kc5tja> jc: Well, when you have caches of any kind, you need a custom chipset to handle the burst-mode on the bus.  The higher the bandwidth, the more esoteric the bus.
21:57:12 <MysticOne> nothing above money
21:57:26 <MysticOne> could do RC5 or Folding@Home or something ...
21:57:43 * kc5tja was thinking about Folding@Home, but not right now.
21:58:02 <kc5tja> There's also a Mersenne Prime at home type thing too.
21:58:18 <kc5tja> But I'd be more inclined to work with Folding@Home.
21:58:19 <MysticOne> yeah
21:58:20 <Herkamire> does seti@home use a lot of bandwidth?
21:58:25 <kc5tja> Herkamire: Nope.
21:58:25 <MysticOne> Herkamire: no
21:58:32 <kc5tja> My dad uses it over a telephone dial-up modem at 33.6kbps.
21:58:32 <warp0x00> like none
21:58:40 <kc5tja> Negligable impact.
21:58:47 <MysticOne> yeah, it's not much at all
21:58:52 <warp0x00> it transfers like 30k or something every 4 hours
21:58:54 <MysticOne> d/l a small packet and crunch for several hours
21:58:55 <Herkamire> wow. what does it do then?
21:59:12 <Herkamire> never mind
21:59:14 <MysticOne> analyzes data, looking for specific things
21:59:20 <Herkamire> 30k every 4 hours works for me
21:59:33 <warp0x00> well less hours if your system is faster
21:59:34 <jc> Mmmm, eggnog.
21:59:40 <MysticOne> afaik, looking for kinda non-naturally occuring signals
21:59:42 <warp0x00> the packets aren't large
21:59:46 <kc5tja> Well, I think you can configure how big a chunk you want it to process at a time.
21:59:47 <warp0x00> and they're plaintext
21:59:54 <warp0x00> kc5tja: no
22:00:04 <warp0x00> jc: i want
22:00:29 <jc> I don't know if they're plaintext, but the are signed.  And periodically the send finished packets to another user for checking.
22:01:04 <jc> Somewhere, there's a working 'y' key on this keyboard.
22:01:41 <Herkamire> I wish there was a network like that where once you had contributed enough, you could send a program out to be run on lots of computers and get the results back
22:02:07 --- join: chrisrw (~chris@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-124.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth
22:02:07 --- quit: chrisrw (Remote closed the connection)
22:03:18 <Herkamire> problem is most of the things I'd want to do with it would use more bandwidth
22:03:19 <kc5tja> Cool.  Fixed the page-alignment stuff, so the generated ELF file for : foo [entry-point] foo ; is now only 242 bytes.  :D
22:03:26 <kc5tja> All but five of which is boiler-plate.
22:05:28 <warp0x00> wtf is an FX51 cpu?
22:05:37 <MysticOne> one better than an FX50?
22:05:43 <warp0x00> who
22:05:46 <warp0x00> makes them
22:05:47 <kc5tja> I suspect it's an 8051 clone.
22:05:52 * MysticOne desn't know anything about them
22:06:11 <warp0x00> they are the fastest CPU for seti@home aparently
22:06:27 <kc5tja> OK, definitely NOT an 8051 clone then.
22:06:29 <kc5tja> :)
22:07:05 <kc5tja> According to Google, the FX51 is a specific generation of AMD Athlon.
22:07:24 <Herkamire> maybe before I spend too much time thinking about getting a network of computers to compute something for me when they're not busy, I should make something where my computer does something for me when it's not busy.
22:07:25 <warp0x00> aparently
22:07:27 <kc5tja> It's an Athlon64 CPU.
22:07:54 <kc5tja> Herkamire: :)
22:08:12 <kc5tja> Herkamire: You're into fractals; maybe you can do distributed fractal generation.  :)
22:08:13 <warp0x00> they are also aparetnlty fucking fast
22:08:16 <jc> You're thinking of the XA 8051.
22:08:32 --- join: imaginator (~gps@166.70.196.201) joined #forth
22:08:36 <jc> A freaky little part if there ever was one.
22:08:37 <kc5tja> warp0x00: Athlons have always been major speed demons.
22:09:05 <Herkamire> kc5tja: yeah :) that's one of my thoughts. it's very very little data (even if you send the algorithm) but returning large images or movies would be more bandwidth
22:09:06 <kc5tja> My 800MHz Athlon is more than sufficient for my Neverwinter Nights game, despite them recommending a 1GHz Intel CPU.  :)
22:09:09 <warp0x00> kc5tja: yeah im runnnig a barton and 2 tbreds
22:09:11 * jc wonders if he should mistake kc5tja's comment as meaning he actually likes something.
22:10:12 <Herkamire> I also want to do some crazy raytracing movies, but I can't be distributing huge source files
22:10:21 <kc5tja> jc: I love Athlons.  They're all I will ever use at the moment.
22:10:38 <kc5tja> Herkamire: Yeah, raytracing is another good distributed application.
22:10:55 <jc> I generally prefer Athlons.  Although the very latest Intels are looking decent.  Still expensive.
22:11:02 <kc5tja> Yep.
22:11:04 <jc> What I really want is a dual MP system.
22:11:06 <MysticOne> my only problem with Athlons is heat
22:11:11 <MysticOne> they seem to get too hot ...
22:11:13 <kc5tja> I recommended an Intel P4 for my roommate's recording computer.
22:11:14 <MysticOne> quite often too
22:11:26 <warp0x00> MysticOne: solution: water cooling
22:11:29 <kc5tja> MysticOne: I haven't had a problem with that.
22:11:33 <Herkamire> I've been thinking about how to do raytracing really really realistically, and it's going to slow it down quite a bit
22:11:53 <jc> What I find a little disturbing yet satisfying is that when I upgraded the BIOS on my laptop, there was an M4 microcode upgrade.
22:11:54 <warp0x00> kc5tja: tbirds were evil hot running at 90+W
22:12:02 <MysticOne> warp0x00: true, true ...
22:12:10 <MysticOne> we got the most interesting heatsink today for a special application
22:12:17 <MysticOne> instead of just normal cooling fins ...
22:12:18 <warp0x00> do tell
22:12:21 <MysticOne> it has tons and tons of screws
22:12:31 <MysticOne> or, well, I say they're screws ... that's what they look like
22:12:31 <warp0x00> oh yes
22:12:33 <MysticOne> to increase the surface area
22:12:40 <warp0x00> ive seen those
22:12:50 * kc5tja ought to go into business selling fractal heatsinks.  :)
22:13:02 <kc5tja> I figure, if they have fractal antennas, fractal heatsinks ought to work, right?  :)
22:13:06 <Herkamire> infinite surface area!
22:13:17 <warp0x00> they have fractal antennas?
22:13:20 <kc5tja> warp0x00: Yep.
22:13:26 <warp0x00> link plz
22:13:27 * kc5tja has always wanted to try one too.
22:13:29 <kc5tja> Maybe someday...
22:13:45 <kc5tja> warp0x00: Google, basically.  I don't have any off hand at the moment.
22:14:03 <kc5tja> fractenna.com
22:14:28 <jc> We had a heat sink design program at IBM that was pretty nifty.  You know those heatsinks with real tall narrow spires?  WORTHLESS.
22:15:19 <warp0x00> yeah i know
22:15:25 <jc> There's a ratio of base cross section to height where it ceases to become an effective radiator.  It's something like ~4x the crosssection of the base.
22:15:53 <jc> So if it's .25 x .25 at the bottom of the spire, any taller than ~1" becomes wasted material.
22:16:02 <warp0x00> i love how HUGE CPU cache is
22:16:16 <jc> Yea.  8x the memory of my original CP/M system.
22:16:25 <warp0x00> no i mean
22:16:27 <warp0x00> physically
22:17:44 <jc> You know that's the only reason the Slot-1 and Slot-A designs even existed.  It was because they couldn't fit the cache onto the CPU die.  And it's a lot more expensive to put multiple dies on a PGA.  So the slot-x was developed, cache on the CPU die became practical, and the slot died.  In fact, electrically, the slot is a very poor design.
22:17:53 <jc> Leads to assymetric trace lengths.
22:18:35 <kc5tja> That isn't the issue.  Stray capacitance and inductance were major electrical factors.  Also termination.
22:18:58 <jc> Which is caused by... say it with me now... "assymetric trace lengths"
22:19:02 * kc5tja pets his Athlon -- slot A.  :D
22:19:07 <kc5tja> Nope.
22:19:12 <kc5tja> It's caused by the contacts in the slot itself.
22:19:27 <warp0x00> your both wrong
22:19:32 <warp0x00> its caused by too much penis
22:19:45 <warp0x00> oversexed archictures
22:19:54 <jc> That's part of it.  Having signals arrive out of phase, particularly when multiple data or clocks are on the wire at the same time is even more of an issue.
22:20:21 <MysticOne> jc: I thought it was a ploy to make it so AMD couldn't copy designs :)
22:20:59 <jc> Maybe in their dreams.
22:21:09 <warp0x00> maybe
22:21:18 <kc5tja> AMD ended up not copying them anyway; EV6 blew away Intel's best offering by at least an order of magnitude.  :)
22:21:36 <warp0x00> EV6?
22:21:44 <jc> Actually, the reality is the way reverse engineering works to avoid lawsuits, the engineers don't even look at an Intel part.
22:21:51 <kc5tja> The front-side bus used by the Athlon; originally used on DEC Alpha RISC CPUs.
22:22:00 <warp0x00> ah yes
22:22:20 <warp0x00> thats cuz intell was using SDR like 33Mhz at that point still
22:22:34 <jc> For instance, at IBM, if you've ever seen a listing of someone elses BIOS (Anna books, disassemblies of Phoenix, etc), you can't work in their BIOS group at any position that allows you exposure to their source.
22:24:12 <kc5tja> Makes sense.
22:24:26 <kc5tja> But they can certainly consult though, yes?
22:24:39 <jc> How do you mean?
22:25:27 <kc5tja> If I worked at Award, and have the source to a Phoenix BIOS listing, then I cannot work on Award BIOS directly.  But someone who CAN can ask me about Phoenix's implementation of various features, right?
22:26:20 <jc> What IBM generally does is has 2 divisions in the group.  One group plays with the BIOS, and documents the behavior, and writes a spec.  The other group implements the BIOS from the spec.  The first group is called the black or dirty group, the second are called the white or clean group.
22:26:30 <jc> I dunno about that situation.
22:26:43 <jc> IBM is like seriously phobic about contamination.
22:27:05 <kc5tja> That's basically what I was describing, only with a cleaner degree of separation.
22:28:34 <jc> What I don't know is if the first group is allowed to disassembled the BIOS, or use a ICE on it, or if they can only work from published specs.
22:28:59 <jc> The guys I dealt with when we had them building the BIOS for the 4-way Xeon system were the clean group.
22:29:24 <jc> I dunno if you've seen the memory compression technology from IBM, but I worked on the first server that had that techology.
22:29:34 <kc5tja> Nope.
22:29:40 <warp0x00> im reading this review w/ benchies
22:29:46 <warp0x00> the reviewer is kindof an idiot
22:29:50 <I440r_> i invented a compression method!
22:29:59 <I440r_> i compressed a 40k image down to 90 bytes
22:30:00 <kc5tja> I440r_: /dev/null doesn't count.
22:30:04 <I440r_> no
22:30:05 <jc> It's pretty neat.  Does real-time compression with just about a garuanteed 2x compression.
22:30:15 <I440r_> i could decompres it. and it was NOT lossy
22:30:38 <warp0x00> I440r_: so why haven't you revolutionized the world then
22:30:40 <jc> They have Linux drivers that dynamic size the memory in the system.  So 512MB looks like 1GB most of the time, and *zero* impact on system performance.
22:30:54 <I440r_> however. it requires alot of adjacent pixles of the same colour
22:30:58 <jc> It was a white screen. 
22:31:00 <warp0x00> lol
22:31:02 <I440r_> no
22:31:14 <I440r_> it uses horizontal and vertical compression
22:31:17 <kc5tja> I440r_: Well, run-length encoding can get similar compression ratios.
22:31:29 <I440r_> with alot of pels of the same colour adjacent it compresses most of them downt to a single bit
22:31:39 <I440r_> it used RLE as the last step
22:31:59 <I440r_> take your xchat window for instance with all the text in it
22:32:10 <I440r_> it would do great compressing a snapshot of that
22:32:18 <warp0x00> thats what gif does
22:32:41 <I440r_> no. gif isnt as good as this lol
22:32:42 <I440r_> well
22:32:52 <I440r_> however
22:32:59 <warp0x00> same technique
22:33:00 <kc5tja> gif works on a line by line basis, but within the line it compresses horizontally only.
22:33:04 <I440r_> if i feed it data with lots of colour changes you get negative compression
22:33:12 <warp0x00> lol
22:33:17 <kc5tja> I440r_: Most engines do.
22:33:18 <warp0x00> make it adaptive then
22:33:26 <I440r_> it is adaptive
22:33:32 <I440r_> sort of
22:33:39 <kc5tja> Wavelets and fractals are the only compression techniques that truely compress in both directions concurrently.
22:33:45 <I440r_> it compresses each line after the first using the horizontal methid and the vertical method
22:33:49 <I440r_> and picks the best
22:33:57 <warp0x00> kc5tja: how do you use fractals for compression lol
22:34:29 <kc5tja> warp0x00: http://links.uwaterloo.ca/fractals.home.html
22:34:30 <I440r_> warp i can send you a copy of the data compression handbook ;)
22:34:46 <warp0x00> I440r_: please do
22:35:03 <I440r_> lol its sorta illegal :P
22:35:18 <warp0x00> sorta why?
22:35:32 <I440r_> because its a book for sale. not for free distrobution :P
22:35:45 <I440r_> i have it in electronic and physical
22:35:55 * kc5tja still wants to read Thinking Forth; I've yet to find a copy of that book anywhere, online or otherwise.
22:35:57 <warp0x00> well im unlikely to buy it anyway
22:36:12 <I440r_> ya
22:36:54 <jc> I'll tell you one that that really annoys me about Intel (and AMD may do this, I don't know).  With Intel, the level of documentation you can get access to depends on your relationship with them.  Even though IBM designed cutting edge servers with Intel techology, there were documents that we couldn't get that the BIOS guys could.  And supposedly there was a level of documentation *they* couldn't get, that was reserved for people who designed chipsets.
22:37:06 <jc> And that's just complete bullshit.  Especially when things don't work as advertised.
22:37:26 <jc> Which is so common with Intel design reference materials that it's not even remotely amusing.
22:37:40 <kc5tja> jc: This is very common practice. 
22:37:48 <kc5tja> Try developing your own video driver for nVidia chipsets.
22:37:59 <kc5tja> Unless you work for Microsoft directly, good luck.
22:38:23 <jc> I can see if they won't give it to Joe Blow, or a low volume company, but at the level IBM dealt with Intel, it caused a lot of resentment.
22:39:01 <kc5tja> I like the fact that I can get almost any documentation I want about PowerPCs from IBM.
22:39:17 <kc5tja> I got so many free data books on PowerPCs years ago, back when the 604 was king of the hill.
22:39:39 <kc5tja> I think I still have my 603e book lying around.  :D
22:43:00 <warp0x00> jpeg uses wavelet right?
22:43:04 <kc5tja> No
22:43:08 <warp0x00> ?
22:43:10 <kc5tja> Discrete Cosine Transform.
22:43:15 <warp0x00> wtf is that
22:43:21 <kc5tja> Almost like a Fourier Transform.
22:43:32 <warp0x00> i am stupid
22:43:38 <kc5tja> Discovers frequency components of an image, and compresses based on that.
22:43:41 <warp0x00> i dont know anyhting about these maths
22:43:56 * warp0x00 crawls into the corner and hides
22:44:04 <kc5tja> :)
22:44:20 <warp0x00> you peole scare me
22:45:13 <warp0x00> how do you know so much jesus
22:45:36 <kc5tja> For every one thing I know, there is something that you know that I don't.
22:45:49 <warp0x00> i seriously doubt it
22:45:54 <kc5tja> You'd be surprised.
22:46:00 <warp0x00> and/or i know the wrong stuff
22:46:25 <chandler> I know more than both of you combined.
22:46:40 <kc5tja> Dude, my roommates make me feel like I want to crawl under a rock and die because they are just so damn good with music, and I suck so bad....
22:47:11 <kc5tja> My sensei makes me feel the same way when he does some really gnarley aikido technique I ain't *ever* seen before.
22:47:12 <kc5tja> etc.
22:47:12 <warp0x00> dude, i am not good with music
22:47:24 <warp0x00> or martial arts
22:48:19 <chandler> Physical strength is for the weak of mind.
22:48:30 <warp0x00> im with chandler on that one
22:48:36 <jc> Unless you need to open pickle jars.
22:48:46 <kc5tja> jc: Even then.
22:48:51 <jc> Riiight.
22:48:53 <Herkamire> chandler: lame excuse
22:48:56 <jc> Better to hit the jar with a hammer.
22:49:01 <kc5tja> jc: I've opened jars that nobody else could open by employing basic thermodynamics.
22:49:10 <Herkamire> you need good health to keep your brain running well
22:49:17 <kc5tja> Friction makes heat, heat expands metal faster than glass, and voila -- jar is opened.
22:49:18 <chandler> Herkamire: I am in good health
22:49:23 <Herkamire> good health requires exersize and good eating. which build strength
22:49:24 <warp0x00> kc5tja: i seriously doubt theres anything really usefull i know that you dont
22:49:50 <chandler> Herkamire: I don't have a car. I walk everywhere. This means I get a non-zero amount of exercise
22:50:10 <jc> OK, a jar was a bad example.  Next time you need to loosen the lugnut that the shop-monkey put on with an air-wrench set to 200 ftlbs, the hot water trick ain't help you.
22:50:23 <kc5tja> chandler: Try biking -- uses a different set of muscles.  And once you get that down, try aikido -- yet another set.  Karate, still another.  Etc.
22:50:32 <chandler> kc5tja: I don't care that much
22:50:41 <chandler> I have better things to be doing with my time
22:50:47 <Herkamire> I was going to say something about biking
22:50:52 <Herkamire> I bike to aikido most of the time
22:51:31 <chandler> and when my army of robots takes over the world, your aikido won't help you
22:51:44 <kc5tja> jc: Tool-making is one of mankind's best qualities.  That requires intelligence, not strength.  Ergo, my intelligence suggests to use same said airwrench to loosen said lugnut.  :)
22:51:59 <kc5tja> or some comparable tool.
22:52:00 <jc> Riiiight.  Always keep one handy on the expressway?
22:52:02 <warp0x00> kc5tja: is owning jc
22:52:12 <jc> No, he's special casing everything.
22:52:16 <jc> And actually getting damned annoying.
22:52:18 <kc5tja> jc: So are you.
22:52:36 <kc5tja> on both accounts.
22:52:41 <Herkamire> ok cool. we agree. now on to bigger and better things
22:52:47 <jc> Gee, I wish *I* had answer for everything.
22:52:49 <Herkamire> hmmmm
22:52:50 <warp0x00> yeah like
22:52:52 <warp0x00> sex
22:52:56 <kc5tja> jc: So far, you haven't let us down.  :)
22:53:33 * Herkamire reflects on his own advice, and decides he will actually go to bed now.
22:53:42 <Herkamire> too late for sex. girlfriend is already asleep
22:53:51 <kc5tja> Heh
22:53:57 <kc5tja> I should get to bed myself.
22:54:05 <warp0x00> yes
22:54:13 <warp0x00> i hope my programming language gives you nightmares kc5tja
22:54:23 <kc5tja> warp0x00: Nope.
22:55:03 <kc5tja> If anything gives me nightmares, it's working at In-N-Out with every district manager in the store, all with clipboards and pens, all at the same time.
22:55:05 <warp0x00> there should be a freenode channel for programming language theory
22:55:06 <kc5tja> (like we had today)
22:55:58 <Herkamire> kc5tja: that's nightmare material :)
22:56:11 <warp0x00> wait
22:56:13 <warp0x00> kc5tja
22:56:14 <Herkamire> warp0x00: what channel do you think you're in?
22:56:18 <warp0x00> you work at a burger place?
22:56:29 <kc5tja> Yep.
22:56:30 <warp0x00> Herkamire, wanna give it a shot?
22:56:37 <warp0x00> you have all this expertise
22:56:42 <warp0x00> and you work at a burger joint
22:56:45 <Herkamire> I come to this channel to discuss programming language design and theory
22:56:53 <warp0x00> ur my kind of person kc5tja
22:56:54 <kc5tja> People are just full of surprises.  :)
22:57:10 <warp0x00> Herkamire k u ready mofo?
22:57:15 <Herkamire> warp0x00: give what a shot? and I don't work at a burger joint
22:57:16 <kc5tja> My former job was working for HIfn (http://www.hifn.com), where I was a semiconductor verification technician.
22:57:43 <warp0x00> kc5tja: i just refuse to give away my creativity to some company
22:57:50 <chandler> kc5tja: how did you go from semi tech to a burger joint?
22:57:55 <kc5tja> Economy.
22:57:59 <chandler> heh
22:58:02 <kc5tja> Tech industry layoffs.
22:58:09 <warp0x00> Herkamire: well i tried describing somethign to kc5tja and it mystified him
22:58:17 <chandler> and semi industry is not in a good state right now
22:58:22 <Herkamire> warp0x00: I missed it
22:58:27 <kc5tja> Yep.
22:58:29 <warp0x00> Herkamire: over /query
22:58:46 <warp0x00> Herkamire: wanna give it a shot
22:59:15 <Herkamire> warp0x00: give what a shot? understanding your language?
22:59:26 <kc5tja> Before working for Hifn, I ran an ISP, but PacBell put us out of business.
22:59:32 <kc5tja> (now SBC DSL)
22:59:34 <warp0x00> Herkamire: yes
22:59:52 <Herkamire> does it have a purpose beyond confusing people?
23:00:08 <warp0x00> yeah
23:00:10 <warp0x00> i like it
23:00:14 <warp0x00> im going to try to implement it
23:00:15 <Herkamire> cool. then yes
23:00:17 <Herkamire> then I'll go to bed
23:00:23 <warp0x00> okay
23:00:28 <warp0x00> wanna do it in here or over /query
23:00:35 <Herkamire>  /query
23:00:53 <chandler> hm, I wanted to see it to
23:00:54 <chandler> er, too
23:00:56 <chandler> so why not do it here?
23:01:09 <Herkamire> whatever
23:01:23 <warp0x00> okay
23:01:24 <imaginator> Who likes Lamba the Ultimate?
23:01:43 <imaginator> Lamba/Lambda
23:01:43 <Herkamire> imaginator: never heard of it
23:02:27 <imaginator> http://lambda.weblogs.com/
23:02:28 <warp0x00> uh
23:02:44 <chandler> imaginator: it's mostly harmless
23:02:47 <warp0x00> Herkamire and chandler, lets go over to #codetunes to discuss it?
23:02:50 <chandler> that's how I would describe it
23:02:53 <imaginator> It's a community where people introduce new programming languages, and discuss different ideas about them.
23:03:49 <imaginator> Why mostly harmless?  What is a better place?
23:04:38 <imaginator> ACM?  IEEE?
23:06:08 --- quit: jc ("Departure courtesy another successful alienation by kc5tja -- you want fries with that?")
23:06:33 <kc5tja> Alienation?  Hardly.  jc brought it all on himself.
23:06:51 <kc5tja> The logs hosted by nef, gathered by clog, will clearly show evidence thereof.
23:07:57 <MysticOne> I don't understand what he was angry about
23:08:02 <kc5tja> Nor I.
23:08:11 <kc5tja> Never once did I insult, never once did I make a false accusation.
23:08:12 <MysticOne> oh well
23:08:15 * kc5tja shrugs
23:08:17 <Herkamire> kc5tja and jc were just being smartasses. if either got mad I would say it's their own fault.
23:08:24 <MysticOne> yeah
23:08:29 <MysticOne> as if kc hasn't gotten mad and left before
23:08:29 <MysticOne> :)
23:08:34 <MysticOne> so it's not like it's new
23:09:08 <warp0x00> kc5tja: i hate you and everything you stand for so HA
23:09:14 <kc5tja> Well, I'm off to do a radio show recording with my roommates.
23:09:22 <kc5tja> warp0x00: HA?  Well . . . HEH!
23:09:31 <kc5tja> Then I'm off to bed.
23:09:48 <kc5tja> And no, this is not a ham radio type radio show.
23:10:02 <kc5tja> It's more a fun thing.  It's not even broadcast.  :)
23:10:04 <kc5tja> (yet)
23:10:07 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK")
23:11:15 <MysticOne> I'm heading to bed too
23:11:18 <MysticOne> except I don't logoff
23:11:18 <MysticOne> :)
23:12:30 <Herkamire> MysticOne: it's OK to log off. this stuff is logged anyway :)
23:12:39 <MysticOne> Herkamire: I never log off 
23:12:45 <chandler> screen!
23:12:50 <MysticOne> Herkamire: shell + screen == joy!
23:13:00 * chandler hugs his server
23:13:05 * MysticOne hugs his too
23:13:14 <Herkamire> I like to save electricty by turning off my computer when I sleep
23:13:22 <MysticOne> Herkamire: they don't use that much
23:13:31 <chandler> I play music while I sleep
23:13:36 <chandler> but the laptop sleeps while I sleep, yes
23:13:43 <chandler> the server is hosted at my alma mater though
23:13:54 <imaginator> Don't you mean shell screen + joy !?
23:14:10 <Herkamire> oh, you ssh to a server, and run irc on that?
23:14:15 <chandler> I do...
23:14:32 <chandler> running irssi under screen
23:14:48 <MysticOne> yeah
23:14:51 <MysticOne> same thing here
23:14:54 <MysticOne> except my desktop doesn't sleep
23:14:55 <MysticOne> :)
23:15:00 <Herkamire> nifty
23:15:16 <Herkamire> so uh... why not run it on your local box?
23:15:34 <chandler> Herkamire: because the remote box generally has much longer uptime and a much more persistent net connection
23:15:54 <Herkamire> you get disconnected a lot?
23:15:59 <Herkamire> dialup?
23:16:01 <MysticOne> Herkamire: because the shell is more reliable usually
23:16:05 <chandler> occasionally. no, broadband
23:16:14 <chandler> university connection no less
23:17:01 <MysticOne> actually, a lot of times I put this machine to sleep
23:17:04 <MysticOne> unles I have something going on on it
23:17:23 <chandler> I also have two IRC bots running on the desktop :-)
23:18:26 <MysticOne> okay, I'm off
23:18:27 <MysticOne> g'nyght!
23:18:59 <Herkamire> goodnight
23:53:49 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@c-305a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth
23:53:49 --- quit: Robert (Connection reset by peer)
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.12.15