00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.12.10 00:13:40 I guess. 00:13:42 OK, night! 00:13:48 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 00:15:10 --- quit: Ralph ("*") 01:03:31 --- quit: jdrake ("Oops. This machine just fell asleep") 01:06:00 --- join: ss (~matt@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 01:06:04 --- nick: ss -> fridge 02:59:44 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:02:06 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-305a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 04:35:06 --- quit: haroldo_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:10:20 --- quit: fridge ("Leaving") 06:30:29 --- quit: I440r_ ("Leaving") 06:55:00 --- quit: jc (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:55:44 --- join: jc (~jcw@adsl-33-138-241.asm.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 07:30:49 --- join: I440r (~mark4@saturn.vcsd.com) joined #forth 08:22:49 Hey 08:22:54 I love these PIC microcontrollers 08:23:14 I thought I fried it when I saw the voltage was like.. many volts above the maximum ratong 08:23:16 rating 08:23:25 But it still works :) 08:39:07 ewwww. PICs make me puke. 08:40:22 dont eat them, then 08:42:08 There aren't many languages or architectures I truly hate, but Python is the language, and PIC is the architecture. My biggest nightmare would have to be doing something in Python to support a PIC based project. 08:43:22 haha 08:46:06 I'd sonner write in COBOL on a Colecovision. 08:46:08 sooner 09:00:43 why do you dislike python? 09:11:26 i hate c that much 09:11:37 and ans forth 09:11:43 ans forth == c 09:24:03 I'm not completely sure why I hate Python so much. I've used a *lot* of languages, but none has pissed me off like Pyhton for trying to get anything done. And the error messages are fucking useless. 09:41:14 Python is syntax ad abdsurdum. 09:43:48 So, I440r, is showargs.f too embarrassing to include as demo code? I might do a few others. 09:44:58 no actually im really pleased someone else was actually able to make head/tail of it all :) 09:45:29 i need to get back into the swing of things and make a few minor changes and do a new release 09:45:56 i want th pull down menus stuff put into the windowing stuff - not overly diificult but im lazy :/ 09:47:24 lazy++ 09:47:52 for a while i was burned out with it 09:48:02 I have a lot of personal projects like that. 09:48:08 supre intense development for extended length of time and NO job/money to show for it 11:25:49 --- quit: jc (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:28:08 --- join: jc (~jcw@adsl-33-138-241.asm.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 11:29:42 wb 11:34:52 Stupid 'grip'. KO'ed my system. Hard lock, no sysreq key, nuthin' 11:51:14 wmpower - or any other acpi application does the same thing to this box. sometimes it hard locks it, other times it resets it outright 12:17:52 grrr grip isnt gtk+ its fscking GNOME - i HATE gnome, i whish people would STOP classifyting GTK as gnome. 12:18:05 gnome USES gtk - that does NOT make gtk a gnome lib 12:18:19 gnome == looks like shit and falls over often 12:19:00 i go to great pains to make sure NO applications get installed that require any gnome libs 12:19:06 gtk however is good! 12:19:43 Never used GTK... don't think I ever felt I had to :) 13:05:16 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81947.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:12:25 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD95481D8.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 13:46:17 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 14:32:45 --- quit: ianp ("getting a non-broken client") 14:33:49 --- join: ianp (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 14:58:51 --- quit: I440r ("brb") 15:12:32 --- quit: wossname ("upupupupupupuupupopu") 15:49:47 --- join: I440r (~mark4@12-160.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth 15:56:30 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:07:50 awful damn quiet. 16:08:20 thats #forth for ya heh 16:08:46 * jc bets no one here has a Forth IRC client... 16:08:59 Complete with Gnome libraries :) 16:09:17 haha 16:09:25 noway 16:09:59 err i feel tainted 16:10:02 someone said gnome 16:10:04 eek\! 16:10:06 i said it! 16:10:08 :) 16:10:11 thats 2 times 16:10:17 careful now or we may have visitors 16:10:31 in white suits ? 16:11:44 Gnome doesn't do _anything_ useful AFAICT... 16:12:57 For a few million lines of code that doesn't do _anything_ useful, they seem to have put a lot of work into it. 16:13:39 it falls over aloit 16:13:39 and looks like shit 16:13:39 and takes up lots of space on your hard drive 16:13:39 thats useful for all those windows pll, makes em feel at home 16:13:39 GTK now, that's kind of neat. 16:13:39 I don't personally have any use for it, but... 16:14:12 yeah, I don't get it 16:14:21 jc think microsoft 16:14:29 what have THEY ever produced thats usefull 16:14:55 for a while when I first got into Linux I had Gnome installed, but after a while I realized it wasn't doing anything. 16:14:55 Win2K 16:15:25 I'm not a Gnome person, myself. I prefer KDE. But I still prefer the look and feel of Win2K over KDE. KDE still has widgets that are just too sloppy. 16:15:58 And while I'll be the first to throw rocks at Win95/98/98SE/ME, I like Win2K. I'd probably like WinXP, but I have moral aversions to it. 16:16:21 ew 16:16:30 xp is a beast 16:16:57 hm 16:17:09 The GUI is ugly, to be sure. But it's Win2K based, and pretty solid underneath. Excellent device support. 16:17:16 laptop came with xp. as of yet, i have yet to find a reason to replace it. 16:17:36 i can do whatever i want on my laptop with little fuss.. so.... it suits me fine. 16:17:45 Good hallmark of an operating system. 16:17:59 xp is just 2k 16:18:14 i detest windows, really 16:18:15 OK, Forth question. is cmove ( addr addr n -- ) ?? 16:18:20 the ui gets worse 16:18:23 i think so 16:18:30 At the heart, yes. But it's got a lot more DRM support and such built in. 16:18:39 and thats good for what? 16:18:41 And I consider it to be uglier. 16:18:56 digital rights mgt? 16:19:05 I don't like DRM. But you can't say "XP is just 2K with skinning" 16:19:09 Yes 16:19:28 all that just crystallizes my move away from that camp 16:19:50 it's 2k improved.. i mean there's some nice additions.. but it's still a pile-on ... 16:19:51 its nasty, anyway you slice it 16:20:14 OS/2 + DOS + win 3.1 + 9x .. 16:20:14 while .NET looks nice, it's only for windows.. give me mac os... 16:20:25 the drm stuff doesn't bother me. i don't agree with it politically nor morally, but i have yet to have anything concerning it interrupt my life. 16:20:36 My laptop duel boots (yes, duel, not dual :) ) Win2k and Gentoo. Most of the time it's in Gentoo, except when I run Street Atlas, or my CAD software. And I run Win2K in a VMWare session for AuctionTamer and Quicken on my devel box. But other than that, I don't have much use for Windows anymore. 16:20:51 me neither i only keep windows around for certain functions 16:21:09 like playing a game or pro audio production (sadly) 16:21:38 Linux just isn't quite there yet, for some things. 16:21:41 jc i have street atlas too!!!! 16:21:54 I'm a Linux user and supporter, but not a Linux zealot. 16:22:27 i wouldn't use a windows box as a firewall/router/gateway... but.. it does fine on my game system and i have yet to find a reason to change the OS on my laptop 16:22:30 Too bad SA doesn't run under VMWare. It doesn't like the video driver. Only the outlines of states render, but no roads or shading. 16:22:37 beos or linux would be my primary choices on the notebook. 16:23:02 jc damn - what about under wine ? 16:23:05 Somewhere I have a BeOS CD I've been meaning to try. 16:23:46 Dunno about wine. I've only ever tried that for freecell, and I didn't like the way it left icons on the desk, instead of inside a wine window or something. I can safely say I know next to nothing about wine. 16:23:56 computing or drinkable :) 16:36:57 --- quit: tathi (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:36:58 --- quit: Robert (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:36:58 --- quit: I440r (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:37:03 --- quit: slava (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:37:03 --- quit: dpb9cpu (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:37:24 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:37:24 --- join: I440r (~mark4@12-160.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth 16:37:24 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-305a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 16:37:24 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 16:37:24 --- join: dpb9cpu (~dpb@lexx.daves.net) joined #forth 17:07:31 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 17:13:21 --- quit: Robert (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:13:21 --- quit: slava (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:13:21 --- quit: I440r (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:13:22 --- quit: dpb9cpu (tolkien.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:13:44 --- join: I440r (~mark4@12-160.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth 17:13:44 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-305a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 17:13:44 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 17:13:44 --- join: dpb9cpu (~dpb@lexx.daves.net) joined #forth 17:14:05 jc: A BeOS CD, eh? Tell me what you think when you get around to it. 17:15:40 hm 17:15:44 i've used 4.5.2 and 5.0 17:16:06 the interface takes a tiny bit more to get used to... (but i'm a maximize junkie)... 17:16:13 but it's a solid system. i liked it. 17:16:18 Thanks :-) 17:16:24 i can very much see using it for a day to day life OS 17:16:44 Unfortunately, not enough other people did. 17:17:03 hm 17:17:08 if i had only one computer 17:17:23 and i wasn't into alot of gaming 17:17:28 i could see using beos. 17:17:41 but.. if ya game ... beos is something of a no no, much like linux would be. 17:17:58 there's just too many crapware games for win16/win32 heh 17:18:28 Yep. We never could get enough of a base to make porting games to BeOS worth while. 17:19:15 Of course, having MS stomp on the deal every time we hooked up a hardware vendor didn't help. 17:20:13 heh 17:20:24 driver limitations are annoying like any other 'alternative' os :) 17:20:55 but... ya can build a cheap computer and generally get a workable system going 17:21:16 dunno how BEOS is with all of the integrated stuff on motherboards these days 17:21:45 Yep. I wrote a number of the graphics drivers for BeOS. It mostly comes down to the willingness of the hardware vendors to cough up the specs. 17:21:51 but if ya buy, like, a system and then start stuffing es1370 sound cards (or sblive i think), realtek nic's, and... i dunno what'd be a good video card... 17:21:59 ah 17:22:00 :) 17:22:16 sorry, didn't know you had an extensive background in the product :) 17:22:37 One of things that always intruiged me about BeOS was how fast it's supposed to be. 17:22:55 I've seen recent updates to the third party NVIDIA and ATI graphics drivers. You can probably get a fairly recent card to work. 17:22:56 hm... i generally had absolutely zero speed issues with beos 17:23:19 ran screaming fast on a dual pII 233 :) 17:23:46 Yep. 17:23:56 i think the only time i had an issue with beos was when i formated my partition with 4K cluster size instead of the default 1k cluster size ... something about it .. it just... did NOT like. 17:25:04 lol 17:25:15 hm 17:25:19 there was something else it didn't like. 17:25:23 something involving the SMP on that system 17:25:37 think i had to tell it to not use bios or something (else it'd lock after bringint the graphics subsystem up) 17:27:28 but... er... shrug 17:27:39 it was relatively smooth ride with beos while i used it 17:27:54 enjoyed having an sh prompt, too 17:28:16 i like bash :) 17:32:54 i should prolly sell my beos 5.0 pro cd's 17:32:59 (and maybe the 4.5.2 as well) 17:34:47 what do you run at home on personal box? 17:36:00 hm 17:37:00 notebook (2.0ghz mobile p4, 1gb, blahblahblah) runs xp pro, gaming machine (xp 1700+ or so) runs xp pro as well, i was using a quad ppro with slackware as my gateway, but have since moved to just using the wireless router thing as my gateway/router. 17:37:22 so, i suppose at the moment, i'm primarily running win xp at home. 17:41:39 yea i just did that too 17:41:45 server is just samba now 17:42:13 my laptop has xp home on it but its almost permanantly booted to gentoo :) 17:42:25 only time i boot to xp is to run delorme st atlas 17:48:25 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 18:03:16 * TreyB returns from putting the kids to bed. 18:04:15 om: i write software that has a final intention of being commercial and stuff while at home 18:04:25 and the target is wince and similar 18:04:30 so a win32 platform makes sense 18:04:34 (on the notebook)( 18:04:46 not to mention everyonc ein a while i'll play a game, etc. 18:05:19 yea i keep win32 on the lappy for work too 18:05:31 i just happen to have lucked out here cuz they use linux at work hhe 18:08:01 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-63-196-0-191.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 18:14:58 hm 18:15:06 linux + vmware for me here at work :) 18:16:18 played with vmware a while back wasnt impressed. apps running it it cant use the cd, the floppy, the sound card, the network no matter WHAT config i set 18:16:46 hm 18:16:56 i've no issue with any of the above. 18:17:02 (running vmware v4 workstation) 18:17:23 well, sound is a bit... skippy... so.. i don't use sound in it heh 18:20:25 * wUoNrFk tests his base42 conversion stuff 18:22:34 base 42 conversion is easy in forth 18:22:47 100 42 base ! . decimal 18:22:48 heh 18:23:21 hm 18:23:26 hand testing stuff... so pfft. 18:23:31 heh 18:24:59 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-165-238.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 18:27:46 That's pretty odd. I've had good luck with sound, CDs, floppy, and even USB across several machines using VMWare. 18:30:34 hm 18:30:36 usb so/so for me 18:30:55 you have a via chipset ? 18:30:55 printer worked, quickcam didn't (something about streaming usb protocol not supported or something) 18:31:00 and base42 system didn't seem to work :( 18:31:21 look at isforths sources for how it converts between bases :) 18:31:23 erm no 18:31:27 that part is all forth not asm 18:31:34 anyway do you have a via chipset ? 18:32:03 via chipsets have power issues with usb 18:58:53 --- quit: fridge ("Client exiting") 19:29:48 --- join: arke (~chris@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-124.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 19:30:25 y0 19:31:25 hey! 19:31:34 hi 19:32:10 im on dvorak, so im typing very slow 19:36:09 heh 19:36:14 i've considered getting one 19:36:32 but i'm already a 60-120wpm touch typist on qwerty... 19:36:53 heh 19:37:26 getting used to a new layout is hard 19:38:09 I'm a touch-typist. 19:38:14 I have to touch every key to type something. 19:39:41 heh 19:39:41 :) 19:42:10 getting a dvorak keyboard? 19:47:20 unf i can type 35 WRONG words per minute :) 19:47:23 ok i say that alot :P 20:05:10 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576567.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 20:06:03 --- quit: madgarden (Remote closed the connection) 20:06:15 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576567.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 20:07:00 Ahoy. Anyone play roguelikes? 20:27:53 only if they're written in forth :) 20:28:06 D'oh. 20:29:13 Are you familiar with "The Sword of Fargoal" from ancient 8-bit days past? 20:41:16 --- quit: ianp ("Hmmm. EPIC4-1.1.17 (642) has another bug. Go figure...") 20:42:09 --- join: ianp (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 20:46:28 --- part: madgarden left #forth 20:55:46 --- join: hovil (~matt@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 21:50:06 where hans kc5tja been lately? 21:50:10 has* 21:56:49 he was on last night 21:57:25 hrm 21:57:35 was i here? 21:58:23 yes 21:58:36 k... 22:10:19 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:13:15 hello 22:25:15 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 22:32:13 --- join: jdrake (~GodlessHo@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 23:14:33 --- join: schihei (~schihei@p5085D441.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 23:38:15 --- quit: jdrake ("Oops. This machine just fell asleep") 23:45:29 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 23:47:03 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.12.10