00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.12.06 00:19:55 --- quit: ChanServ (Shutting Down) 00:20:03 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 00:20:03 --- mode: tolkien.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 00:27:53 --- quit: ChanServ (Shutting Down) 00:28:05 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 00:28:05 --- mode: tolkien.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 00:55:05 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-161-25.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 01:53:52 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD9E5C7C1.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 02:07:21 --- join: Robert__ (~snofs@c-2b5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 02:07:21 --- quit: Robert (Connection reset by peer) 03:06:33 --- nick: Robert__ -> Robert 03:33:44 kc5tja been around lately? 04:20:57 07:58:36 <@kc5tja> Night! 04:20:57 07:58:40 -!- kc5tja [~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com] has quit ["THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK"] 04:21:17 And now it's 13:20 04:59:24 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:24:08 --- join: haroldo_ (~haroldo@r200-40-212-221-dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) joined #forth 05:24:14 --- quit: haroldo (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:03:40 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-305a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 06:10:08 --- quit: warp0x00 (Excess Flood) 06:10:52 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 06:58:59 --- quit: warp0x00 (Excess Flood) 06:59:43 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.142.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 08:07:52 y0 08:08:07 terve 08:08:49 :) 08:41:33 hey mur? 08:41:58 do you know an ANSI-compliant way to take something off of the dictionary? 08:42:06 and storage, as well 08:42:34 i want my word to use a temporary storage, and then delete it once its done.. 08:53:47 no 08:54:23 argh. :) 10:54:31 --- join: rO| (rO_@p50807641.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 11:52:07 --- quit: rO| () 11:53:12 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 13:03:06 whee 13:03:24 uugh 13:03:29 why cant i connect to ircnet? 13:03:36 I WANT TO BE AT FIGUK 13:04:24 try another server 13:04:26 irc.lut.fi 13:06:22 uugh 13:06:27 are you on irc.lut.fi?/ 13:07:43 y 13:08:20 cant connect to that one either, it seems. 13:08:41 --- Closing Link: arke[unknown@67.23.43.124] (Unauthorized connection) 13:08:42 --- Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). 13:09:25 well, xchat has a biig list of ircnet servers, so itll check all of those... 13:09:31 mur: you logging? 13:11:35 no 13:11:46 why? 13:13:25 because if i cant get on, i can't log, and i want a log for kc5tja (and myself) 13:13:30 and im sure others want one too 13:17:32 what log? 13:17:45 FIGUK meeting 13:18:08 when is it starting? 13:18:18 i can put channel logging 13:18:30 but it'll be 12 -24 hours of channel data :) 13:18:33 its starting in 40 minutes 13:18:39 thats fine :) 13:18:41 actually 13:18:45 (before i remember to disable logging) 13:18:46 start now, because alot of people come early 13:19:00 okay what channel? #figuk / ircnet 13:19:00 I NEED TO FUGGIN CONNECT!!! AARGH! 13:19:03 yes 13:19:05 :) 13:19:47 are you sure about channel 13:19:48 23:19 -!- Irssi: #figuk: Total of 2 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal] 13:19:54 i'm another 13:20:10 im pretty sure... 13:20:14 i can double check though 13:20:56 Robert's operator on the channel 13:21:02 no one else than me and Robert 13:21:08 on it 13:21:10 on channel #figuk using the IRC server called "IRCNet". 13:21:16 yeah, theyll come soon 13:21:20 dont worry :) 13:22:01 wonder what they say that there are only me and robert (both offsea 13:22:03 errr 13:22:07 over-seas 13:22:22 huh? 13:22:34 * mur .fi, Robert .se 13:22:45 yeah 13:22:48 * arke us 13:23:13 ankeus is depression, or boredom 13:23:39 --- join: madgarden (~madgarden@Kitchener-HSE-ppp3576567.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:23:55 uuuugh 13:24:01 mur: do you have a shell account? 13:24:10 shell account? 13:24:14 yeah 13:24:18 i'm using irc on shell yes 13:24:18 telnet or something 13:24:20 why? 13:24:21 ssh 13:24:25 cool 13:24:36 because i cant connect, and you can. and i wanna be part. :) please? 13:25:10 i cant give shell usernames 13:25:13 universityt shell 13:25:21 oh 13:25:23 ok 13:25:25 ugh 13:25:36 madgarden: you got a shell account i could use for maybe 2 hours? 13:25:41 mur! 13:25:44 Robert! 13:25:51 Robert: are you logging it? 13:26:01 if you are reading and logging i woudl not have to 13:26:05 Yes, yes 13:26:05 arke: Hmm... why don't you get a Sourceforge account? 13:26:07 Robert: can i use your ssh or whatever for about 2 hours? 13:26:15 I'm always logging. 13:26:16 arke: No. 13:26:17 madgarden: i do, but sf doesnt have IRC lol 13:26:22 ugh. 13:26:34 What's the trouble? Looks like you're already in IRC... 13:26:38 yes 13:26:45 but not on IRCNet server 13:26:51 AND I CANT CONNECT!!! AARGH! 13:26:58 try connecting to all 13:27:02 make script 13:27:06 if you have multiserver connect 13:27:16 just flood /connect newserver /connect newserver 13:27:20 perhaps one works 13:28:09 xchat is doing that right now 13:28:46 Robert: you can deliver logs to arke + others? 13:28:48 uuugghhh!!! aaarrggghhh!!! 13:28:56 Try irc.swipnet.se 13:29:51 it takes it like 3 minutes to timeout 13:29:54 on EACH server! 13:29:56 uuuughhh 13:30:14 those which take 3 mins are not likely to accept you later either 13:30:21 try geolocal servers 13:30:48 ALL of them take 3 minutes then timeout 13:31:00 seems like swipnet is doing the same 13:32:21 --- join: Shain (~steve@c-24-5-120-32.client.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:38:47 i got an accoutn ... yay 13:57:00 lifaflknffavjgsjaksjgsjsajd 13:57:03 i cant log on 13:57:06 even on the remote account 13:57:08 WTF!? 13:57:33 calm down, only one person has joined chan so far b esides me and ro 13:57:59 .... 13:58:02 wtf!? 13:58:10 that cant be right. 13:58:24 there was like 15 people there 2 months ago 13:58:35 who joined? 13:58:49 this network has one on channel (JP) 13:58:53 ircnet 13:59:01 jeffp 14:01:38 he was there last time, alright... 14:01:45 restarting 14:01:48 brb 14:05:40 uum 14:05:45 how many people are there right now? 14:05:49 there seem to be none ... 14:05:56 im connected via a web client 14:06:02 and im all alone... 14:06:15 I still don't know what you're talking about. 14:06:42 re 14:07:06 only 3 no one has left 14:07:47 netsplit perhaps? 14:09:19 guess sooo.... 14:11:31 --- join: jc (~jcw@adsl-33-138-241.asm.bellsouth.net) joined #forth 14:12:43 --- part: madgarden left #forth 14:14:51 i think i got it. 14:15:00 it seems that most of the ircnet servers are down. 14:15:11 so people either gave up, or they're split. 14:15:15 which sucks 14:15:20 :( 14:23:14 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@207.111.96.96) joined #forth 14:23:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 14:24:05 päivää herra sininen 14:24:28 greetings TheBlueWizard 14:25:22 hi mur! actually it is evening here :) 14:25:26 hiya arke 14:32:55 hi folks 14:33:01 are there any gtk bindings for forth? 14:33:07 or qt, or any other gui toolkit? 14:35:26 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-160-165-66.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 14:35:57 hiya slava...that's highly dependent on which forth you have, what platform, etc....afaik there are none forth of any flavors...then again, I don't know a lot about gui stuff for forth 14:43:08 arke: i turn logging off? 14:47:45 i guess so. 14:47:53 theres nothing to log, really 15:47:09 * TheBlueWizard pokes I440r 15:47:18 are you here, I440r? 15:52:25 http://www.yle.fi/linnanjuhlat/galleria/kuvat.php?&kuva=154&kuvateksti=../../../../../etc/passwd&pohja=89 15:55:18 hi! 15:55:19 yea 15:55:22 for a mine or 2 15:55:24 going out in a bit 15:55:26 whussup ? 15:55:54 hiya!!! 15:56:04 can you /join #mathgrads please? 15:56:50 I want to introduce you to my buddy 15:57:07 onlyme (: 15:58:01 huh? I'm talking to I440r 16:02:02 his name a dozen years ago used to be 'onlyme' :) 16:03:32 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:07:17 --- quit: I440r ("brb") 16:10:27 wUoNrFk: oh really? nice to know that 16:11:16 hm... force of habit 16:11:24 tend to call ppl what i originally knew them as... heh 16:11:31 :) 16:31:39 --- quit: slava (Remote closed the connection) 16:47:36 --- quit: ChanServ (Shutting Down) 16:47:42 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 16:47:42 --- mode: tolkien.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 17:20:09 hrm 17:20:16 we should all rename ourselves :) 17:20:31 TheBlueWizard -> NoFI 17:20:42 fridge -> freezer 17:20:56 I440r -> IsMark 17:21:08 hm 17:21:15 i could be aUwNaFy 17:21:33 Robert -> TinySE 17:21:36 wUoNrFk: :) 17:21:51 wtf is this "NoFI"?! 17:21:58 heehee 17:22:04 you're learning finnish, right? 17:22:05 :P 17:22:27 yeah.....but that doesn't mean I'd change my nick 17:24:36 Fi = Finnish 17:24:39 :P 17:24:42 just a joke. 17:24:56 * arke will now work on RkG instead. 17:25:10 --- join: haroldo (~haroldo@r200-40-166-201-dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) joined #forth 17:26:41 hiya haroldo 17:26:44 RkG? 17:27:17 TheBlueWizard: (: 17:27:22 hi 17:27:36 TheBlueWizard: its basically a framework for a text environment. 17:27:40 sorta; 17:27:44 you can think of it like that. 17:31:30 I'm afraid I don't understand it 17:32:46 hehe 17:32:50 its kinda hard to explain 17:33:16 think of it as a thing thats kinda like X, but its runs on anything 17:33:28 console, X, DirectFB, SVESA ... you name it. 17:33:34 as long as theres support for it. 17:35:17 in the beginning, all it will be is an interface for making a neat console app. 17:35:24 s/app/interface 17:35:55 hmm...sounds interesting 17:36:04 is it a long term project? 17:37:12 i plan to start it, and then ill probably have somebody else take over. 17:37:29 but ill always hack on it :) 17:37:41 heh 17:37:52 --- quit: haroldo_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:39:08 eventually, I'll have it to a point where itll consist of a completely bare minimal core, and everything else can be made with outside stuff 17:39:19 and the core doesn't need to be updated at all. 17:40:04 sensible plan 17:40:20 would be a good thing. 17:40:30 the only thing that would have to be changed is 17:40:32 a) a bug 17:40:54 b) adding support for another whatever (although it should be completely portable among any 32-bit ANSI forth) 17:41:11 btw, does ANSI have a built-in word for converting to *-endian? 17:45:13 afaik nope, though it shouldn't be hard to code up *-endian converter 17:47:58 true. 17:48:07 does it have a deferred BOOT or such? 17:48:23 --- quit: Robert ("brb") 17:50:03 hmm....don't know what is a deferred BOOT 17:50:51 if i save out a forth with its deferred BOOT value set to foo, then when that forth starts, it automatically runs foo 17:50:54 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 17:50:55 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 17:51:09 Greetings. 17:51:30 kc5tja! 17:51:31 :) 17:51:42 kc5tja: is there some portable way to do BOOT? 17:51:57 * arke is a pygmy person and does not like ANSI 17:52:17 hiya kc5tja :) 17:52:28 arke: BOOT? 17:52:49 anyone know a working IRCnet server? 17:52:58 arke: ah...have no idea at all, though turnkey system setup is quite traditional Forth activity 17:53:28 kc5tja: yeah, boot 17:53:37 arke: OK, what does `boot' do? 17:53:51 I know in ColorForth, it's the same as `bye' in other, more classical Forths. 17:54:08 Sonarman: DONT mention IRCNet ... it destroyed todays figuk meeting 17:54:12 Sonarman: irc.sci.kun.nl 17:54:17 that one MIGHT work 17:54:42 kc5tja: when you defer BOOT to lets say FOO, then each time the saved out forth starts, it runs FOO automatically 17:54:50 kc5tja: come on, youve used pygmy before! 17:55:01 Yeah, but I've never used turnkey. 17:55:04 And no, there is no portable way. 17:55:10 Booting is inherently unportable. 17:55:28 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-305a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 17:56:16 hiya Robert 17:56:26 Hi :) 17:57:00 ack. 17:57:00 * kc5tja has to remember to sign up for Aikido this December 15th. 17:57:07 Robert: hi there :) 17:57:09 --- quit: ChanServ (Shutting Down) 17:57:14 Heh. 17:57:15 kc5tja: this makes my life VERY hard. 17:57:20 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 17:57:20 --- mode: tolkien.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 17:57:43 kc5tja: If I intend to write this in forth, I gotta be able to have it boot ... well, I can always include and BYE, but what if theres an error? 17:57:44 FS/Forth uses a different mechanism. 17:57:52 : Foo [entry-point] ...blah... ; 17:58:00 hum 17:58:06 i like BOOT better. 17:58:08 The [entry-point] word is an immediate word that tags Foo as being the new entry-point. 17:58:14 :) 17:58:21 although that is a pretty nice way to do it. 17:59:04 Man, I *really* need to figure out a cleaner way to implement certain things in FS/Forth. I thoroughly abuse and hack the return stack for a lot of things, in the interest of keeping definitions as close to 1 line as possible. 17:59:14 * kc5tja thinks he'll rewrite those to use a more Smalltalk-ish layout. 18:01:52 gimme an example? 18:02:33 Example of what? 18:02:45 of an rstack-abusing word 18:03:48 It's not just one word, it's a collection of words. 18:04:08 24 list Screen 24 not modified 18:04:08 0 ( FS/Forth::Target Compiler::Forth Word Search ) 18:04:08 1 18:04:08 2 h: 3rdrop r> r> r> r> drop drop drop >r ; 18:04:08 3 h: last fwli @ 1- cells table1 + ; 18:04:09 4 h: bump 4 + swap 4 + swap ; 18:04:11 5 h: eq 2dup @ swap h@ <> if 2drop r> drop exit then bump ; 18:04:13 6 h: namecol table1 - 2* 2* table2 + ; 18:04:15 7 h: cfa drop h@ nip ; 18:04:17 8 h: ?name dup namecol here 4 + eq eq eq cfa 3rdrop ; 18:04:20 9 h: ?length dup h@ here @ <> if r> drop exit then ; 18:04:21 10 h: ?chk ?length ?name ; 18:04:23 11 h: ?def begin dup table1 < if drop exit then ?chk 4 - again ; 18:04:25 12 h: ?defined last ?def r> drop ; 18:04:27 13 18:04:29 14 18:04:31 15 18:05:14 ! 18:05:53 : rdrop postpone r> postpone drop ; immediate : 3rdrop rdrop rdrop rdrop ; immediate 18:05:57 It's not much prettier in a traditionally structured program either. 18:06:29 But at least the intent would probably be clearer. 18:06:46 arke: 3rdrop can be defined either way. I don't use 3rdrop often enough to justify making it a macro. 18:06:51 why compiled? 3rdrop should be immediate... 18:07:03 Why should it be immediate? 18:07:11 it just seems right 18:07:23 and its faster, in that sense. 18:07:44 Not really. 18:07:46 how's your r> defined? 18:07:53 ?? 18:07:57 It's the regular Forth R>. 18:08:08 OK 18:08:13 is fs/forth gforth only? 18:08:19 (in that context, at least)? 18:08:31 You are really confusing gforth, FS/Forth, and FS/Forth's target compiler. 18:08:50 The target compiler is currently written in gforth, because that's the only usable Forth environment I have. 18:10:13 oh 18:10:15 ugh 18:10:15 lol 18:10:17 ignore me :) 18:11:28 Anyway, ?defined is used to check and see if a word is defined. If it is, return its address. Otherwise, it aborts its caller prematurely. 18:12:47 This lets me write a word, h: ?word, ?defined $e8 c, a, r> drop ; , which is used to optionally compile a word's address in the current definition. 18:12:56 haroldo: ?forth ?word, ?lit, ; 18:12:59 err 18:13:00 sorry 18:13:05 h: ?forth ?word, ?lit, ; 18:13:35 is ?defined ANSI? 18:13:40 Fuck no. 18:13:41 :) 18:13:47 aargh!! 18:13:53 Dude, ANSI is not the last word in Forth. 18:14:00 Never has been, nor will it ever be. 18:14:04 fucking ansi haws EVERYTHING, except for really useful things 18:14:22 ANSI has FIND, which serves a somewhat similar purpose. 18:14:31 ok, lemme check dpans for that 18:15:03 ANSI defines, basically, a dialect of Forth 83 that has been modernized. Literally. So it's not useless stuff. 18:15:11 It's just old stuff. 18:15:21 It has everything that's needed to make a working, and useful, Forth environment. 18:15:57 yeah. 18:16:38 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh fucking ---- 18:16:49 kc5tja: how do i get gvim to ACCEPT MY BACKSPACE!!! 18:17:00 arke: Change your X11 keybindings. 18:17:08 .... 18:17:10 ok 18:17:10 Or type CTRL-H to force it. 18:17:13 where/how? 18:17:18 * kc5tja sighs -- I don't know. 18:17:21 Google. :) 18:17:26 Ack. 18:17:27 It's been so long... 18:17:37 man xkeysym I think. 18:17:52 kc5tja, what is http://dolphin.openprojects.net ? That doesn't resolve. 18:18:08 jc: It used to be that. :) 18:18:18 Need to update qrz.com :) 18:18:24 jc: Where did you get that URL from? That's been so outdated for quote a bit of time. 18:18:26 arke: xmodmap 18:18:27 jc: I can't. 18:18:31 Sonarman: THanks. 18:18:36 arke: What Sonarman said. 18:19:00 erm, why can't you update qrz.com info? 18:19:14 got it already 18:19:20 :set backspace=2 18:19:22 works :) 18:19:49 arke: So you want your backspace key to back space two characters? 18:21:00 jc: Because none of my passwords work, including the one I used to set up the account to begin with. 18:21:10 jc: Previous attempts to contact them have failed. 18:21:31 That would explain it. 18:21:38 kc5tja: thats not what it does. 18:21:48 kc5tja: i dont know exactly what it does, but it works here. 18:21:49 (I'm k4jcw, incidently) 18:22:09 jc: Nice. :) 18:22:22 jc: Maybe someday, we can chat on 40m or something...once I get my license upgraded. 18:22:43 * kc5tja really needs to find the time to do that. I'm tech+ right now, so I can do CW on 40, but that's about it. And my CW skills aren't exactly the best. 18:22:49 (though CW is my favorite mode) 18:22:57 Heh. I gotta get HF bck on the air. I live on a houseboat near Atlanta, and had to clear the HF rig out for more PCs. Got 2m, 220, and 440, tho. 18:23:28 jc: You know, if we had a stinkin' real ham radio network, we could do AX.25 or something. 18:23:41 There's always echolink. 18:23:47 jc: Screw that. 18:23:56 But yea, packet services are lame. 18:25:13 I used to have 56K packet running out of here. But I got tired of me being the only person I could talk to. I didn't need $500 worth of equipment to talk to myself. 18:26:03 jc: I want to establish a nice 19200bps link on 2m. It's well within the technological realm of possibility, and it can definitely fit inside the FCC 20kHz channel width regulations. 18:26:34 I think the biggest fault of high-speed packet is that they all exist for 70cm or higher. That's bad, because UHF is point-to-point -- you can't ragchew. 18:26:51 That's the one thing that 2m packet, however slow it is, has over the higher-speed packets: it's omnidirectional. 18:26:58 And hence, ultimately, mobile. 18:27:05 So, the answer to high-speed packet is to get it on 2m, not 70cm. 18:27:42 Besides, the same tech that can get 19.2kbps throughput on 2m can get about 80 to 90kbps on 70cm. Stick THAT in your DSL pipe and smoke it! :D 18:28:14 But, alas.... 9600bps is the fastest anyone will ever want to go. :/ 18:29:46 I worked for Hayes, a few years ago. I was the first employee hired after the chapter 11. And one of the first to go before they tanked. 18:30:36 Dennis was not a visionary, Dennis was an idiot. He truly believes no one would need more than 1200 baud, and had to be browbeat into 2400 and 9600. 18:30:51 Who is Dennis? 18:31:01 hm 18:31:19 Dennis Hayes. He actually is quoted as saying "1200 baud will be fast enough" 18:31:31 Ahh 18:31:37 I thought you were referring to that quote. 18:31:52 No, I'm talking about ham radio's absolutely sordid state of digital affairs. 18:31:58 there was a Slashdot article on two guys behind Hayes a while ago.... 18:32:18 Yea. Dale developed the 56K packet modem we just mentioned. He lives a few miles from .e 18:32:20 me. 18:32:43 i still think we should be using carrier pigeons. 18:32:48 Dude, I'd be happy even with 12000bps. 18:33:05 12000bps digital takes 12000Hz bandwidth when using BPSK modulation. 18:33:14 It is absolutely silly not to use it. 18:33:45 Gotta love the FCC. 18:33:53 It's NOT the FCC's fault! 18:34:04 The FCC grants us 20kHz to do with as we please on a 2m channel. 18:34:11 Explicitly! 18:34:17 (and 100kHz on 70cm band) 18:34:45 The problem is that everybody wants everything to fit in an AF channel, and that's JUST not going to happen. 18:35:12 Sorry, you're right. I was thinking 120khz for 12000hz. Missed a zer0 there. 18:35:18 Besides, double modulation (digital to AFSK, then to FM) is far, far, far more wasteful than direct modulation. 18:35:56 * arke has no idea what you guys are talking about :) 18:36:14 arke: That's ok -- neither do most people who use packet radio. 18:36:22 --- topic: set to 'where people get together to talk about CVT, stirling engines, tesla turbines, data structure and algorithm design, Ham Radio, and occasionally Forth' by arke 18:36:25 Now, you want channel density, play with PSK-31. 18:37:40 arke: One of the sub-hobbies in ham radio has been wireless networking. We have a protocol called AX.25 for this (yet another example of something to be utterly destroyed, as ATM knocks its socks right off). 18:38:14 ::)) 18:38:47 arke: But since the recent popularity boom of the Internet, AX.25 is a virtually dead hobby. AX.25 networks are so fragmented that we no longer have an internetwork of sorts; we now have multiple, independent islands of network connectivity. E-mail, despite having a world-wide capable and routable address scheme, 99% fo the time does not reach its destination. 18:38:50 um....I vaguely discussing with kc5tja about a "better" protocol than TCP/IP...something more simple and more effective...was that ATM? 18:38:54 The real problem is most hams are *really* cheap SOBs, and once they've paid $50 for a piece of 30 year old equipment, they don't want to change. So AX.25 is stuck here, because they're too cheap to buy new TNCs. 18:39:34 s/vaguely/vaguely remember/ 18:39:41 TheBlueWizard: Probably. 18:39:56 mmhmm 18:40:03 kc5tja: Gforth has no saving-out!???? 18:40:14 :(( 18:40:20 * TheBlueWizard would love to have a flexible, scalable network protocol 18:40:31 arke: Probably not; I don't know. Never tried it, don't care to. 18:40:54 That's hard to believe. ATM has a poor header to data ratio, as I recall. Lots of overhead. The big advantage is that the header information allows switching of a packet before the entire packet has arrived. 18:41:03 TheBlueWizard: If people would just recognize ATM for what it's true essence is, then we'd have it. We also need to relinguish political issues too. 18:41:26 jc: ATM has a fixed 10% header overhead. Average overhead for AX.25 and Ethernet is 25%. I hardly consider that poor. 18:41:46