00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.11.12 00:16:12 --- quit: melinda (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:02:22 --- join: schihei (~schihei@141.87.8.20) joined #forth 01:02:36 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 02:48:59 --- join: haroldo_ (~haroldo@r200-40-166-198.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) joined #forth 02:52:45 Yippie! OpenBIOS has working path resolution and an evaluator now 02:53:27 The project is pushing forward again after so much dead time. 02:54:08 --- quit: haroldo (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:59:53 Stepan: good 2 hear it 03:00:21 have u tested it yet? 03:00:30 does it run under bochs? 03:00:39 I haven't tested bochs yet. 03:00:48 but you can boot the kernel from grub 03:00:55 or using LinuxBIOS as lowlevel starter 03:02:59 I worked on porting LinuxBIOS to the opteron, so I can switch my opteron machine on and directly start openbios from coldboot. 03:03:40 linuxbios is basically used for the hypertransport setup and dram init in the whole image 03:04:38 for testing there is also a version of the kernel that runs directly on the unix command line 03:05:07 I implemented a small and simple plugin system that even allows me to emulate pci devices in userspace. 03:05:31 this means I can write and test a framebuffer driver now by just running openbios under linux. 03:15:38 --- join: schihei (~schihei@grz5.rz.fh-albsig.de) joined #forth 03:24:58 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 03:44:54 Stepan: hmmm.. it sounds very promising 03:57:18 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 03:59:31 hi 03:59:34 re Robert 04:03:44 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 04:23:19 --- quit: arke (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:35:38 --- join: moritz_ (~moritz@pD9E1E3F9.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 06:00:48 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 06:17:54 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 06:52:55 --- quit: proteusguy ("Leaving") 07:00:29 --- join: schihei (~schihei@grz5.rz.fh-albsig.de) joined #forth 07:36:21 --- quit: warp0x00 ("#") 07:46:28 --- quit: TreyB () 07:50:09 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 08:13:50 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 08:57:37 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 09:08:58 --- join: melinda (melinda@melinda.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 09:26:47 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 09:49:00 --- quit: mmanning (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:00 --- quit: onetom (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:01 --- quit: TreyB (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:01 --- quit: Zoopee (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:02 --- quit: melinda (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:02 --- quit: chandler (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:02 --- quit: MysticOne (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:02 --- quit: segher (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:02 --- quit: mur (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:03 --- quit: oooo (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:03 --- quit: skylan (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:03 --- quit: ianP (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:03 --- quit: haroldo_ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:03 --- quit: ChanServ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:04 --- quit: Robert (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:04 --- quit: Herkamire (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:49:25 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: melinda (melinda@melinda.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: haroldo_ (~haroldo@r200-40-166-198.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: chandler (~darmok@64-145-60-36.client.dsl.net) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: mmanning (~mmanning@saturn.vcsd.com) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: ianP (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: Zoopee (alsbergt@zoopee.org) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: segher (~segher@blueice1a.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4649.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: MysticOne (mysticone@mysticone.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- join: oooo (o@virgo.bombsquad.org) joined #forth 09:49:25 --- mode: calvino.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 09:49:57 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 09:49:57 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 10:05:00 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD9E5C950.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:31:14 --- quit: segher ("leavink...") 10:53:09 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:53:35 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 11:34:02 --- join: thin (thin@bespin.org) joined #forth 11:34:08 everyone ok? 11:34:17 the channel running itself fine in my absence? 11:39:16 --- quit: thin ("Leaving") 12:05:17 --- quit: melinda (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:16:49 wow. rxvt doesn't redraw characters to the screen that are already there (meaning if you move the cursor and print "12345" where it already says "12345" it doesn't redraw them (I know this because I drew on the screen with /dev/fb and the editor I wrote redraws all characters (and rxvt only redrew the characters that were different)) 13:25:01 Herkamire, is rxvt stable so it would make sense to replace xterm with it on my old machine? 13:27:16 I don't know much about rxvt. I'm just trying it out myself. someone here told me that eterm was even faster 13:28:00 I haven't had any problems with rxvt 13:30:58 ic 13:30:58 thx 13:38:26 --- quit: moritz_ ("Leaving") 13:50:26 herk thats not eterm doing that, that sounds like a curses thing to me 13:50:59 rxvt sux lol - use eterm :) 13:53:38 wter and ater are reworks of rxvt i believe - eterm i THINK is derived from xterm but i might be wrong and eterm is way better 13:53:39 Hey 13:53:39 :) 13:53:39 * Robert uses xterm 13:55:02 nuff sed :) 14:19:07 --- join: rO| (rO|@dialin-145-254-244-202.arcor-ip.net) joined #forth 14:19:17 hi 14:28:31 Hi there 14:29:47 re Robert 14:29:51 --- join: melinda (melinda@melinda.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 14:29:54 busy in school? 14:32:58 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 14:46:45 --- join: jamc (dne@as3-6-8.asp.s.bonet.se) joined #forth 14:50:52 --- join: haroldo (~haroldo@r200-40-166-101.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) joined #forth 14:53:52 --- quit: haroldo_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:01:05 --- quit: mmanning ("Reality Strikes Again") 15:45:39 --- join: arke (~chris@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-66.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 15:50:56 --- quit: rO| (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 16:10:53 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-169-95-220.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 16:15:37 --- quit: haroldo (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:37 --- quit: jamc (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:37 --- quit: Herkamire (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:37 --- quit: Sonarman (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:38 --- quit: onetom (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:38 --- quit: melinda (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:39 --- quit: Zoopee (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:39 --- quit: TreyB (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:40 --- quit: Robert (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:40 --- quit: oooo (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:40 --- quit: mur (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:40 --- quit: MysticOne (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:40 --- quit: ianP (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:40 --- quit: skylan (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:40 --- quit: chandler (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:40 --- quit: arke (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:40 --- quit: ChanServ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:15:54 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-169-95-220.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: arke (~chris@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-66.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: haroldo (~haroldo@r200-40-166-101.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: jamc (dne@as3-6-8.asp.s.bonet.se) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: melinda (melinda@melinda.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: oooo (o@virgo.bombsquad.org) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: MysticOne (mysticone@mysticone.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4649.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: Zoopee (alsbergt@zoopee.org) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: ianP (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: chandler (~darmok@64-145-60-36.client.dsl.net) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 16:15:54 --- mode: calvino.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 16:19:49 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.31.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 16:44:54 --- quit: jamc ("Darling, my ELBOW is FLYING over FRANKFURT, Germany..") 17:00:11 --- join: I440r (~mark4@12-178.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth 17:32:28 --- quit: Sonarman ("i need some heavy metal") 17:32:43 hello hello hello all 17:32:45 boring hre 17:32:48 start talking :) 17:36:55 lol no 17:36:59 hush! 17:38:18 blah 17:38:21 blah 17:38:21 blah 17:38:21 blah 17:38:21 blah 17:38:22 :) 17:38:34 I440r: doing socket coding ... much fun :) 17:39:12 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-169-95-77.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 17:40:11 :) 17:41:07 mmm it's nice to figure something out on my own. :} 17:42:34 melinda: :) 17:42:38 melinda: hello :) 17:42:49 hiya arke :} 17:43:09 whatcha doing? 17:43:20 Messing around with my cellphone 17:43:22 :} 17:43:30 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 17:43:47 MysticOne had promised to get someone to show him how to change my startup screen like his but her keeps "forgetting" 17:44:19 Good morning! 17:44:23 heh cool 17:44:45 So now I have my startup screen changed and an obscene idle message. :} 17:44:57 morning ASau! 17:45:10 im installing gentoo on a second machine here - soon to be on a third maybe 17:46:16 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 17:46:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 17:46:41 Good morning, kc5tja! 17:46:47 Good evening. :) 17:46:51 kc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 17:47:39 * arke is really like a friggin dog sometimes :) 17:48:00 Hehe 17:48:20 * arke slobber jump bark tail-waggle 17:53:11 kc, Why do you not use radio greetings? :) 17:53:58 * melinda pokes kc5tja in the nose. 17:56:27 ASau: That pretty much was a radio greeting. :) 17:56:41 There is no Q-code for joining a conversation; only for leaving them. 17:56:54 * kc5tja pokes Melinda back. 17:58:44 :) 17:59:23 :} 17:59:29 :] 17:59:48 melinda: you don't wanna start a smiley contest with me, you'll definetely lose 17:59:51 :) 18:00:01 That's my normal smile :} 18:00:25 but you're smiling. 18:00:29 hi 18:00:30 more than normal. 18:00:35 I'm happy? :} 18:00:36 i see that as a challenge ;) 18:00:47 Good morning, onetom! 18:00:47 MysticOne is comming home toniiiiight :} 18:00:56 kc5tja, tell her who holds the smiley record here 18:01:03 ah, thats still evening 4 me 18:01:10 :) 18:01:18 I almost always smile after everything I say. O.o 18:01:29 I'm freakish like that. o.O 18:01:48 i was hacking 3G ram handling code w mplayer alex under linux 18:01:53 its a nightmare.. 18:02:00 |:| 18:02:18 --- join: LOOP-HOG (TofuMonste@207.191.240.62) joined #forth 18:02:52 LOOP-HOG :) 18:02:56 hi 18:03:04 does anybody know how much memory can b handled by isforth? 18:03:15 Dobroe utro, LOOP-HOG! 18:03:38 I440r should know, I think... 18:04:10 onetom ive successfully allocated 8 buffers of 20 megs each 18:04:22 that filled up my swap tho :) 18:04:32 hm.. i need 3G 18:04:37 38 megs ? 18:04:46 no 3 gigs 18:05:01 do you have 3 gigs worth of memory/swap space ? 18:05:04 sure 18:05:13 if you have the swap space you have NO problems 18:05:14 but nothin can really handle it 18:05:19 you want that in ONE buffer ? 18:05:23 not even the linux kernel ;) 18:05:31 0.0 18:05:33 wow 18:05:33 lol 18:05:48 whats it supposed to be for? 18:05:51 cat /proc/cmdline: .... ramdisk_size=2000000 18:06:04 isforths memory manager doesnt allocate memory, it SUB-allocates memory 18:06:14 I440r: ? 18:06:15 from heaps that it allocates with a syscall to linux 18:06:19 dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/ram0 bs=1024000 count=900 18:06:34 and it hangs that compaq machine... :p 18:06:34 lol 18:06:59 what do u use 2 allocate the memory? 18:08:25 I440r: oh. 18:08:28 eg, java cant handle >~1.9G mem on 32bit platforms like linux or solaris9 18:09:20 onetom: Try to 'man' 'brk' or 'sbrk'. 18:09:34 höh? what r those? 18:09:52 barf scarf narf scarf snarf 18:09:54 brk is no good 18:09:58 I have no Linux machine here. 18:10:04 you cant free up in a random order 18:10:53 i wont like 2 free it 18:10:57 I440r, I know. Should they return mem.avail.? 18:11:12 memory mappings however can be 18:11:18 1 need it in 1 piece so i could manage it instead of the linux mem manager 18:11:21 hrm i ferget 18:11:52 onetom: let linux do it. whats an OS for, anyway? :) 18:12:08 There should be a syscall to get mem.avail. Or is there?/ 18:12:11 arke: nothing?....:p~~ 18:13:35 i believe ther is a way to do that - man mmap ??? 18:13:47 arke: Unless you're running under an exokernel, an OS has no way to fine-tune how memory is allocated or used. 18:13:54 99% of the time, the application knows best. 18:13:55 arke: uknow.. an os exists only 2 make us unproductive, 2 make us nuts, 2 make us lose our hair & stuffs like that 18:14:08 This is why Dolphin will be (or at least I'll try to strive for) an exokernel. 18:14:08 I440r: sure.. mmap... 18:15:16 kc5tja: exokernel? 18:15:18 if i do this one project i won't have to worry about memory allocation, i won't even define allocate 18:15:30 just ALLOT 18:15:51 arke: A minimalistic kernel philosophy, where the kernel is responsible for the protection of resources, but not its usage policy. 18:15:59 I440r: but mmap is good 4 file access isnt it? 18:16:23 yes but linux has anonymous mappings too 18:16:32 i.e. no associated file 18:16:34 arke: "Operating systems" which run under an exokernel environment are actually compiled as shared libraries, linked against applications. 18:16:49 :) 18:17:29 arke: Hence, if you don't want to use a popular OS API, that's OK -- just access the relavent resources directly. The exokernel enforces protections so you don't trod all over some other task's resources, but within what is yours, you have free access (including hardware resources that belong to you). 18:18:47 btw, we r processing data of the citizens of the city where i live 18:18:56 arke: So, for example, in this case, if onetom were to code for an exokernel-hosted environment, he'd write his own memory management system, manipulating page tables and such directly -- no other OS intervention is required. The exokernel just ensures that he doesn't accidentally (or deliberately) overwrite the physical pages used by other applications in memory. 18:19:20 its just 1G expressed in txt, but... well it needs a lot of memory during the transformations 18:19:33 because of the hashes and indexes 18:20:16 Nekhilo, odnako! 18:20:23 onetom: Maybe I've totally missed it, but have you considered the possibility of creating a 3GB file in the filesystem, and using that as an "offline address space" of sorts? 18:20:34 sure 18:20:54 we r swapping out the temporal data into about 100 files 18:20:58 but its slow 18:21:11 You say 100 files -- I'm saying one file. 18:21:29 How much RAM do you have on the computer you're running this on? 18:21:36 it takes an hour for the program to complete 18:21:46 3G RAM 18:21:55 but java can only use 2G 18:22:08 the remaining is used as file cache 18:22:37 That doesn't make life easier! You have to seek from one end of file to another continiously! 18:22:40 Well, Linux is going to want at least 16MB to 32MB of that RAM, so you'll end up having somewhere around 2.8GB when all is said and done. Still good enough I'd think. 18:22:45 --- quit: Sonarman (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:22:45 --- quit: arke (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:22:45 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-169-95-77.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 18:22:59 but we could save a lot of writing operations if the data would stay in the file cache 18:23:26 --- join: arke (~chris@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-66.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:24:09 The only thing I can think of is to hack the Linux kernel directly then. 18:24:27 but how?.. :% 18:24:29 3GB of dirty filesystem cache data is a lot of data that can just go *POOF!* if power were to accidentally go out. 18:24:38 sure 18:24:46 Onetom: I knew that everything is cached, but in this case you'll do the work of an OS, which is already optimized to do this. 18:24:50 but we have ups-es 18:25:09 beside that if the program would run 15mins instead of an hour 18:25:16 onetom: I don't know. Read the existing source to learn how its filesystem cache works -- somewhere, there's going to be code that says, "Is it time to write-back the cache?" You can add an if() statement to that saying, "...and is it OK to write it back?" 18:25:34 then its absolutely not a problem 2 rerun the transformator program again 18:25:43 onetom: Understood. 18:26:05 * kc5tja had a problem with the Linux' FAT filesystem code -- it didn't like my digital camera's SmartMedia cards (which have FAT as their filesystem) for some reason. 18:26:07 if it would b so easy 2 insert an if... :/ 18:26:11 I had to hack the kernel to get things to work. 18:26:26 there r some tuning parameters in /proc 18:26:29 onetom: Well, in my case, I ended up taking out a single if() statement, and everything worked perfectly. 18:26:39 But I had to study the code to see what was going on, and make sure it didn't hurt anything else. 18:26:48 and u can finetune the syncing options w simple echos 18:27:24 but its absolutely not clear how can i achieve the same effect 18:27:47 as w an older kernel w/o a sync daemon 18:27:48 I think it's easier to sync a time per N min. 18:28:14 I'm confused -- if you can temporarily disable syncing in the new kernel with a simple echo, why not just write your code to set the parameters in your software? 18:28:16 but how can i disable syncing under linux2.4? 18:28:55 How do you do it with an echo? 18:28:56 Maybe you can sync more frequently? 18:29:08 kc5tja: it was easy w 2.2 or 2.0 (cant really recall) but i havent found a similar solution for 2.4 18:29:12 kc: echo XXX > /proc/XXX 18:29:24 ASau: I need to know what said XXX is. 18:29:46 Sorry, I have no Linux runnug nearly. 18:29:55 kc5tja: hold on, im gonna dig up that i found 18:30:45 Neat. Linux uses the buddy-system to allocate physical memory apparently. 18:31:03 i'm going to go program in Forth, i was going to ask a question, but you guys are pretty involved in the current conversation, maybe some other time unless i answer the question myself 18:31:27 loop ask! 18:31:42 /proc/sys/vm/bdflush 18:31:46 Loop, think parallel! 18:32:05 I am thinking of programming this Game Boy Advance that i got used for $40, and i want to do it in Forth, is there a Free ARM cross compiler that anyone would recommend 18:32:40 LOOP-HOG: 4 what language? asm? 18:32:50 Forth 18:33:06 Loop, look at RuFIG site. There is even native system, not even cross, IIRC. 18:33:55 there is a cable that uses comms mode that is built into GBA, so i should be able to get a live connection to it through the PC, and code it interactivly using the keyboard on the PC, 18:34:10 I'm thinking maybe i could type in 4 4 + . on the pc, and get 8 on the GBA screen 18:34:40 i'd rather not keep header inside of the gba, even though it has like 256k of ram, and you can access rom 18:34:51 LOOP-HOG: probably the available free sources recommend compilers 18:34:51 LOOP-HOG: or r u talking about a native 4th compiler 4 arm? 18:34:52 i'll take alook at the RuFIG site 18:35:07 MPE has a system i could probably use, but it costs like $1800 18:35:17 onetom: bdflush apparently has nothing to do with disk caching, as far as I can tell. 18:35:24 Still searching... 18:36:08 Loop: Sorry, there is no info. 18:36:11 ouch! 18:36:19 LOOP-HOG: If you can contact Mark Slicker (author of XcolorForth; do a Google search for that to find his home page), I believe he was writing a ColorForth clone for the Arm. Maybe you can talk to him to get more details. 18:38:07 Ask in news:fido7.su.forth or news:comp.lang.forth also 18:38:48 BTW, Gforth should have port to ARM 18:39:15 PFE? 18:39:50 Also a link: http://dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Forth/Implementations/ 18:39:50 MPE http://www.mpeltd.demon.co.uk/ 18:39:53 brb 18:42:18 thanks for the hints 18:42:45 ok, i'll see you later 18:42:56 Good luck. :) 18:43:15 --- quit: LOOP-HOG () 18:43:26 --- quit: onetom (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:44:30 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 18:44:46 --- join: onetom_ (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 18:44:50 onetom: As far as I can see, it's not possible. Maybe if you turn off memory swapping, it will compete a lot less for cache memory, and hopefully will speed things up. 18:46:10 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:46:36 --- nick: onetom_ -> onetom 18:50:21 BTW, kc5tja, how would you like this: 18:51:01 : times postpone >r postpone begin postpone r> postpone ?dup postpone while postpone 1- postpone >r ; immediate 18:51:16 After this you can write: 18:51:22 --- quit: warp0x00 ("#") 18:51:30 : 5stars 5 times ." *" repeat ; 18:53:22 I would do things a bit differently; times here is analogous to for. 18:53:42 I would write times so that it just invoked the remainder of the definition n times, like this: 18:53:50 : 5stars 5 times: ." *" ; 18:54:15 I haven't figured out how to implement times: just yet, but I know it to be possible. 18:54:25 I don't like an idea to make 2 another words for this kind of loop. 18:54:42 "next" is not obvious 18:55:14 ASau: In English it's very obvious when used in conjunction with for. I think this reduces to a language barrier problem. 18:55:17 Also "for" 18:55:43 Maybe. 18:56:05 I think 1 new word is better than 2 ones. 18:56:07 I would say to write the control structure that is right for you. Forth is flexible in this regard, and is often said to allow programmers to write "English-like" program sequences. but why is it just restricted to English? :) 18:56:18 hehe: /proc/sys/vm/pagecache: 18:56:24 This file does exactly the same job as buffermem, only this file controls the 18:56:27 amount of memory allowed for memory mapping and generic caching of files. 18:56:37 but this file doesnt exist :) 18:56:52 onetom: You probably have to recompile the kernel with an option turned on somewhere. :/ 18:56:54 I don't know. 18:58:10 kc5tja: I think at first in native language, not English. 18:58:58 "10 raz ... ( ehto ) povtorit' " is obviuos 19:00:12 I can't say this in case of "dlja"-"sledujushhijj" ("for"-"next") 19:00:34 sure, but its only better 4 u, while u doesnt allow developers of other nations 2 easily help u 19:00:59 But in both cases one new word is better than two ones. 19:01:12 --- quit: Robert (Remote closed the connection) 19:01:19 onetom: It's a matter of compromise. 19:01:20 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 19:01:29 tho.. if u also attach a native-english vocabulary 2 ur src.. it wouldnt b that hard 4 me 2 join the development 19:01:45 oentom: In this case, he could just do this: : for postpone dlja ; immediate (or something similar). 19:02:23 well.. chuck has a better idea :/ the preparsed source 19:02:40 kc5tja: In this case I can do : times postpone raz ; 19:02:49 u only have 2 replace the symbol table & get the full source in an other language 19:02:52 No way for "for"/"loop" 19:03:14 hey Robert! You're asleep! 19:03:33 but it requires a preparser/half-compiler editor 19:03:42 onetom: Languages differ not only in word names, but also in the way how they are used. 19:03:44 Robert: you have irssi. if i keep addressing you, and you do /away, then yuo'll get all of these messages. 19:03:51 :) 19:05:15 N times ... repeat is for "repeat (this) N times". Postfix. 19:06:07 N raz (ehto) povtorit' is quite natural for "povtorit' (ehto) N raz" 19:06:35 : times CX, BX, MOV ; 19:07:07 er 19:07:19 no 19:07:20 lol 19:07:54 BTW, this is used in poetry "Tretijj raz karaul menjajut...", compare to 19:08:27 "3 (3rd, really) times ... repeat" 19:08:57 this should be nice.... a separate stack for loops 19:09:15 TOS being CX 19:09:42 I haven't found any need to make it separate. 19:09:51 would be nice 19:10:08 R-stack suffice. 19:12:20 : times [here] compile >l compile >l ; 19:13:08 arke: what were you saying about a console X yesterday? 19:13:20 Sonarman: thats what im working on right now,... 19:13:34 arke: You've missed the first part of conversation, really. 19:13:43 The points were: 19:14:23 1) comparison with 0 is used more frequently (see IF/WHILE). 19:14:26 ASau: yes i did :) 19:14:37 2) DO .... LOOP is used less freq. 19:15:04 3) LOOP is heavy to implement in terms of JZ/JNZ 19:15:10 ASau: And good riddance too. DO/LOOP is horrible. :( 19:16:11 4) (2a) DO ... LOOP is used almost everywhere to run a seq. for exact number times, for 3 times, for 64 times etc 19:17:21 The conclusion is that DO ... LOOP is exhaustive and heavy-weight. 19:17:30 --- quit: Zoopee (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 19:18:02 It's better create looping like my TIMES ... REPEAT 19:20:19 BTW, times/repeat use one cell on top of R-stack, so it's better for Forth-CPU's like KF116 that has embedded R-stack of finite length (not the whole 4GB of address space ;) 19:21:05 :) 19:21:06 Sorry, "finite" is "small reasonable number" 19:21:22 Ca. 32 19:23:40 :) 19:23:43 BTW, maybe you don't know this, but DO/LOOP is differently handled in various implementations. 19:24:13 There are examples in Leo Brodie's "SF". 19:25:43 onetom: As for preparsed source, there are some points contra. 19:26:08 Program is not for machine only, but also for human. 19:26:44 Program is text. Why should it differ from text? 19:27:49 Moore's point of view is meaningful, but he is not a god, anyway. 19:55:01 --- join: melinda_ (melinda@melinda.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 19:55:01 --- quit: melinda (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:00:39 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:04:10 --- join: arke (~chris@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-66.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 20:05:18 ASau: No, but stifling research and development only because "we've always done it this way" is nonsense. 20:05:40 And I can read ColorForth source just as easily as I can any other source. The editor's job is to render it to the screen in human readable form. 20:05:52 back 20:05:52 Remember also that 8-bit BASICs stored program text in pre-tokenized form too. 20:06:01 Nobody complained about it then... 20:07:44 kc5tja, I don't mind "do not do this (way)". This is very interesting idea. 20:07:58 * kc5tja nods 20:08:21 My point is this is not the only right way. 20:08:26 Certainly. 20:08:32 * kc5tja notes his Forth still is plain old ASCII. :D 20:08:34 The other case is Algol-60. 20:08:59 It has failed completely with its special symbols. 20:09:41 This are two sides: ZX Basic and Algol-60. 20:11:30 Also, we can't write fast in color (need to change pencils), though we can underline. 20:13:25 word 20:13:26 _word_ 20:13:39 *word* 20:13:43 #word# 20:13:46 20:13:54 thats 5 colors, right there 20:13:55 :) 20:14:05 or, it could be state driven 20:14:12 Y word G another-word 20:14:34 State driven: 20:14:36 : word 20:14:41 constant word 20:14:44 variable word 20:14:49 user word 20:14:53 create word 20:14:58 ? 20:15:31 Done already. 20:16:00 Gone for some food. Back in a bit. 20:16:03 * kc5tja is away: foodstuff. 20:19:40 ack. 20:24:33 ASau: what the hell do you mean a program is text? 20:25:02 I program is something the computer can execute 20:25:35 humans use programming languages to express that program 20:25:55 Herk, at first you write the way how you solve problem. 20:26:18 thare are programming languages that are not (ever) expressed as text 20:26:26 And the second is you write the way machine could solve it. 20:26:27 no I don't 20:27:04 I think about the problem in my head mostly visual stuff with interconnections. It would be more accurate to say I "draw" the problem. 20:27:33 if the problem is ever in a written form it is generally a list of goals 20:28:19 These are layers: problem; solution-in-mind (logic, words); machine. 20:29:45 When you write program you think just another language ("think Forth"). 20:30:17 You think Forth, not plain English. That makes you think you're programming. 20:32:15 You need response from machine, other stuff (the way to control machine) is yours. 20:32:32 huh? 20:32:58 OK. 20:33:23 Wish: picture of the ... mountain. 20:33:34 Problem: get it. 20:33:45 Solution: get it on screen. 20:35:06 Knoledge: URL of picture (written on paper-sheet by friend). 20:35:14 solution: click gqview on panel, click images/ click mountain.jpg 20:35:39 OK, this is for _you_, not for machine. 20:35:59 Program is instruction to you, how to solve. 20:36:06 Not for the machine. 20:36:17 what? 20:36:26 Machine "understands" only impulses. 20:36:32 what? 20:37:11 Text is recognized by human, not by machine. 20:37:47 You only personalize machine. 20:38:00 what? 20:38:03 You think machine understands Forth. 20:38:27 my machine understands PPC instructions 20:38:46 In realty, machine "understands" implulses, representing your program. 20:39:08 what do you mean "impulses"? 20:39:27 Electronic impulses. 20:39:38 It's also simplification. 20:39:48 the PPC instructions are impulses? 20:39:56 Of course. 20:40:35 You think this is instructions. It's your, let's call high-level, abstraction. 20:40:41 if you're going to bring it down to the level of electrons wizzing around, I don't think you should use words like "understand" 20:41:18 Herk, it's a great secret, but there are no electrons. ;) 20:41:22 it's a very useful abstraction. The only use I see in going without that abstraction is if you are thinking of making your own computer or modifying the one you have. 20:41:35 ASau: you're an electron. 20:41:39 its all smoke 20:41:55 OK! You've got it. 20:42:12 It's a _useful_ abstraction. 20:42:31 But, it's an abstraction. 20:42:36 yeah 20:42:36 KDE is being way gay 20:42:53 i want desktop switching to be Alt+Fx 20:42:57 * I440r doesny like kde or gnome 20:42:59 but they're already defined 20:43:06 so i undefine each and every one of them 20:43:07 arke: use ion :) 20:43:13 Use WindowMaker :) 20:43:15 and then i try to define the switch 20:43:22 and it says its already defined. 20:43:23 asau i do :) 20:43:24 ack. 20:43:30 * arke is a boxer 20:43:31 asau get wmdots :) 20:43:38 No KDE :) 20:43:54 i use either fluxbox ( yay!!! ) or one of the way heavy ones (gnome or KDE) 20:44:01 usually flux 20:44:02 :) 20:44:07 wmaker is nice too 20:44:18 I440r: What's wmdots? 20:44:25 my dockapp 20:44:42 its at www.dockapps.org but they put it under sound lol 20:45:21 it has a permanant location on all my boxes - i can watch it for hours 20:46:40 My Linux-based OS is: Emacs/wmaker/GNU/Linux ;) 20:46:58 It seems I need no dock. 20:47:34 i love the dock 20:47:50 i hate task bars 20:47:51 bleh 20:48:22 I hate to ask, but... what's the difference between task bars an the dock? 20:48:36 get windowmaker lol 20:48:42 * kc5tja is back (gone 00:32:38) 20:48:55 I'm quite happy with ion thank you. 20:49:01 heh 20:49:11 Herkamire: Task-bars list the programs you're currently running. 20:49:18 A dock lists the programs you can run easily. 20:49:25 ok 20:49:30 kc5 theres the quick menu now too which is a sort of dock 20:49:39 quick launch i mean 20:49:41 I440r: Yes and no. 20:49:53 Apple and MS are always stealing each other's ideas anyway. 20:49:54 i did say "sort of" heh 20:50:12 All I know is, ROX-Filer ...well...rocks. :) 20:50:23 I'm not going to switch window managers unless I get a promise that I will never have to resize a window 20:50:27 It's the single fastest file management tool for LInux I've *EVER* used. 20:50:44 kc5tja: url? 20:50:48 Herkamire: And it's "Ion-Friendly," in that it always re-uses its existing window for stuff. 20:50:56 rox-filer? 20:50:56 kc5tja: url? 20:50:57 :) 20:50:58 Herkamire: http://rox.sourceforge.net 20:51:05 wonder if theres a emerge for it 20:51:53 I'm sure there is. They list Gentoo as a supported platform. 20:52:09 ill hafta check it out then 20:52:29 soon as open office finishes compiling lol 20:52:38 :) 20:53:25 been almost 4 hours now heh 20:53:33 on a 1800 mhz processor too 20:53:54 * kc5tja nods 20:53:56 and the c compiler was also compiled locally 20:56:28 Well, I've done it. 20:56:59 Has anyone read Rob Pike's "System Software Research Is Irrelevant" article? 20:57:23 nope 20:57:37 ASau: yes. 20:58:01 And what do you think? 20:58:11 Everything he says is depressingly true. 20:58:40 "Murphy is an optimist"? 20:58:49 lol 20:58:53 thats an old one 20:59:28 you know what? I really hate to say this, but the Qt/Keramik Theme is really nice. 21:01:40 kc5tja: It seems that we live in optimistic (as Murphy is) world. 21:02:03 That money talks, 21:02:03 I'll not deny, 21:02:03 I heard it once, 21:02:03 It said "Good-bye. 21:02:03 -- Richard Armour 21:02:09 kc5tja: so, i missed this ... once again, whats so special about ROX? 21:02:18 Everyone tries to tell us this. 21:03:20 arke: it's just a nice little file manager 21:03:59 arke: You click, it does. No bullshit involved. No animations, no surprises, and thus, outrageously fast. 21:04:40 kc i dont see no file manager called rox 21:04:51 I440r: rox.sf.net 21:05:04 * arke reads a little 21:05:06 i see a dexktop environment called rox tho 21:05:13 that''s it 21:05:19 and a session manager called rox-session 21:05:29 i have a desktop manager - its called windowmaker 21:05:55 you don't need the whole rox desktop to use rox-filer 21:06:05 and the rox filer is really nice 21:07:06 arke: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=7559 :) 21:07:08 well theres no seperate install for the rox filer in gentoo that i can see - i did a search on "rox" 21:09:07 app-misc/rox actually only installs the file manager 21:10:14 err then why doesnt it say that 21:10:19 the description for the ebuild is bad :) 21:10:23 someone wanting the desktop is going to be pissed off heh 21:11:16 :) 21:12:03 Well, what is the desktop? 21:12:12 It's not at all like KDE. 21:12:14 Or Gnome. 21:12:19 I think it has the pinboard, and that's it. 21:12:23 The rest is .... the filer. :) 21:13:01 i guess the desktop would be rox-filer plus a bunch of appdirs plus the panel 21:13:04 Try in console this: 21:13:07 X :0.0 21:13:29 X :0.0 & 21:13:33 sotty 21:13:39 sorry 21:13:42 Sonarman: I think that's the intent, yeah. Makes things all nice and modular. 21:15:06 If you run X windows already, you should play with numbers. 21:15:34 appdirs are kinda nice. it brings back memories fomr macos :) 21:16:07 at least it's better to have directories with appdirs than having a signle menu of applications configured simply by a text file with shell commands to execute. 21:16:22 a menu could be just built from the directory structure 21:16:23 Sonarman: Yeah. That's what I like. 21:16:28 * kc5tja can't seem to bring up the pinboard though. 21:17:12 kc5tja: you tried rox -p=foo? 21:17:23 where the fuck can i get gtk2!? 21:17:26 are you trying to run the pinboard with ion? :) 21:17:28 No. I'll have to read the man page I guess. :) 21:17:28 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa 21:17:28 is rox dockable ? 21:17:35 i mean is rox-filer dockable 21:17:38 Sonarman: No. I know that won't work. 21:17:45 i find EVERY FUCKING SILLY LITTLE THING, just NOT GTK!!! 21:17:46 I have it docked, yes. 21:18:09 you run windowmaker ? 21:18:09 kc5tja: why won't -p=foo work? 21:18:14 (for you) 21:18:22 Ion always, always, always full-screens windows. :) 21:18:30 So the pinboard window would be frickin' huge. :D 21:19:00 makes it difficult to flip directly to the window you want when you do that 21:19:14 arke: what distro? 21:19:15 I440r: No, it's EASY in Ion. 21:19:24 Sonarman: suse. 21:19:29 I440r: All windows are in either tabs or panes, so that's not an issue. 21:19:31 hrm - i wonder if this compile will go faster if i let the screen saver kick in 21:19:32 which for some odd reason doesnt come with gtk2-devel 21:19:41 screen saver made things fastger on the amiga :) 21:19:50 I440r: I expect it'd make it slower. 21:20:12 im talking about a console blank in a vesa fram buffer console 21:20:12 I440r: The reason it made things faster is because the screen saver opened a monochrome screen, which left more bandwidth for the CPU. :) 21:20:24 I440r: Oh, well, be specific then. :) 21:20:33 (though I still doubt it. :D) 21:21:02 kc5 on the amiga the screen saver made the processor faster but i forget why 21:21:13 screen display actually stole clock cycles 21:21:20 might have had something to do wwith the copper 21:21:34 I just explained why. 21:21:35 which ran in phase 2 of the instruciton cycle i think 21:21:43 (remember I worked for Amiga. :)) 21:21:49 heh 21:21:57 The Agnus/Alice chip cycle-steals from the main CPU. 21:22:13 It basically uses what we call Time Division Multiplexing (TDM) on the bus, where DMA channels had fixed time allocations on the bus. 21:22:39 Bitplanes were allocated similarly. The Agnus and Alice chips were configured so taht any unused time slot was implicitly allocated to the CPU. 21:22:39 im familiar with that 21:22:54 If you reduced the number of bitplanes, you'd free up a lot more time slots for the CPU. 21:23:15 * kc5tja remembers running his Amiga in 640x400 mode, 4-bitplanes. Ahh...it slowed down to a speed comparable to a Commodore 128. :D 21:23:17 Poor thing. 21:23:25 :) 21:23:32 lol 21:23:35 The only thing that really saved it was the blitter, which had a time slot independent the CPU. 21:23:45 c128 was 6510 = 1 mhz right ? 21:24:16 * arke would really want to know why BASIC systems were seemingly more "popular" than forth systems 21:24:33 i mean, you can parse forth very VERY fast, and BASIC takes a while 21:25:15 I440r: 8502A at 1MHz (6510A compatible; just had a few extra I/O pins that the 6510A didn't have) when generating video, or 2MHz during a screen blank. 21:25:37 arke: Because the syntax of the language is more approachable to most people. 21:26:03 kc5tja: ................................................................................................................................................ 21:26:56 Beginners' All-purpose Symbolic Instruction ... 21:27:36 ...Code 21:27:42 IIRC. 21:28:01 Yep. 21:28:39 Or something like this. Can't recall precisely. 21:28:48 Intended to be a very user-friendly language (which, for the most part, it was), it was applied to things for which it was never intended. It therefore became more of a hack than a legitimate language. 21:29:53 It is good for small programs. 21:29:55 AmigaOS 2.0 shipped with REXX as its bundled language, which is similar enough to BASIC to be about as useful. Unfortunately, it was actually slower than BASIC at most things. :) But REXX is nice in that it can control other programs, and therefore, makes a perfect scripting and macro language. 21:30:11 But programming something big is a hell. 21:30:23 kc5 so did IBM PC-DOS 7.0 21:30:25 With proper structure support, I'd say it's good for most any programming project up to the complexity of a POS system. Beyond that, it really starts to break down. 21:30:32 note - NOT ms-dos 21:30:43 I440r: I was really considering bundling REXX with Dolphin. 21:31:01 I really miss REXX-enabled applications under Linux. 21:31:09 until IBM bundled it the amiga was the only os that you could get it with 21:31:24 kc5 write an isforth extension :) 21:31:27 I440r: Not true; but it was the only home computer OS you could get it with. :) 21:31:35 heh 21:31:37 I440r: isforth extension? What do you mean? 21:32:02 write an extension to isforth to allow people writing apps for isforth to be rexx controllable 21:32:16 Well, that's not something I can do. 21:32:23 y now ? 21:32:26 y not ? 21:32:28 Applications have to be REXX-enabled by the people who write the applications. 21:33:08 Besides, there is no standard IPC mechanism to REXX-enable a program in Linux, like there is in VM/CMS and AmigaOS. Even OS/2 didn't have it until way late in its evolution. 21:33:51 I was seriously thinking of e-mailing the author of Regina (currently the defacto REXX implementation for Linux, odd as it may sound) about implementing a system for REXX-enabling applications in a consistent manner. 21:34:22 REXX-enabling an application is trivial. All it requires is that the application receive a string (containing the command and its parameters), and return a string result, and a single numeric result. 21:34:26 Simple. 21:34:30 Rob Pike's "System Software Research Is Irrelevant" article is pretty depressing, and explains a lot 21:34:31 It's entirely client-server. 21:34:58 * arke hints at his new shiny socket skills 21:35:06 arke: nice :) 21:35:26 :) 21:36:12 Regina's API is based more on OS/2's API implementation (which technically is the standard, since REXX is IBM's baby in the first place). The Amiga's implementation was wholesale incompatible. :) But, IMO, more capable from a usability standpoint. 21:36:31 If anyone wants to waste his time at interesting graphic thing, I can suggest one. 21:39:10 It is pretty new, practic and cares Forth propaganda. 21:40:22 er? 21:41:25 Do you need it? 21:41:37 what do you mean? 21:42:09 It'll take some time to explain and recall some links at research papers. 21:43:09 But the idea is pretty viable and may become a good application. 21:46:05 well, what is it? :) 21:49:14 Image processing tool. 21:49:22 In general words. 21:49:32 naah 21:49:33 :) 21:50:03 Maybe used to process graphs or paints or ... 21:50:20 I intend at first graphs. 21:50:36 :) 21:50:38 Gnuplot is not as good, as can be. 21:51:36 I have no time to process bitmaps etc. It require my time. 21:52:26 If anyone make some steps I'll appreciate it. 21:53:23 If you have some bitmap images you may have fun writing this prog. 21:54:19 ASau: I'm having trouble understanding you. You're looking for someone to write a program you've designed? 21:55:27 No, I'm thinking if anyone have this program or parts written. 21:55:38 Or if anyone want this at all. 21:56:16 I haven't designed it, it's in planning stage. 21:56:25 what will it do? 21:56:29 Well. 21:56:37 The main idea is this. 21:57:02 You have a background. 21:57:43 This can be white/black/... color canvas or pregenerated image. 21:58:27 Image can be modelled as function: img: -> color 21:58:43 nice.... 21:59:01 x and y are real numbers, but we can use integer at our wish 21:59:49 If they're integer, we can say it's raster image, bit map or how-do-you-call-this. 22:01:20 I'll be right back. I'm going to try ROX to see if it will run w/out WindowMaker. 22:01:41 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 22:02:06 You represent color as intensities of RGB, color is of R^3 or integer at you wish. 22:03:00 On the other side, you can represent image as tuples. 22:03:44 In this case you can process images with filters, that are functions: 22:03:59 filter: -> 22:04:52 When you have functional language or Forth, you can compose filters. 22:05:18 : Filter Filter1 Filter2 Filter3 ; ( as example ) 22:05:49 :) 22:06:28 So you can change intensities of R or G or B basing of coordinates or color. 22:06:41 Possible domains of application: 22:07:07 1) image processing (brighten, darken, color correction etc) 22:08:16 2) graph plotting (drawing lines, circles, any functions, any coordinates, warping coordinates any way you like). 22:08:40 What you need is: 22:09:32 1) reading bitmap file (in case you process images), this can be PNG, BMP, GIF, JPG. 22:09:58 2) writing bitmap file 22:10:05 3) displaying image. 22:11:20 To display an image you just loop x and y coordinates through their ranges and get color for corresponding points. 22:11:24 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 22:11:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 22:11:56 If you generate fractals or plotting graphs, you may change ranges at your wish. 22:13:20 kc5tja: run it inside screen, will ya? 22:13:20 If you process images, you have to interpolate any way, but this interpolation may become a filter that is applied first. 22:13:40 Run what inside screen? 22:14:11 --- quit: Sonarman ("goodnight") 22:14:28 kc5tja: your irc client 22:14:34 kc5tja: make it irssi, even. 22:14:39 whatever. 22:14:48 X-Chat is the only IRC client I'll use, until someone can show me something better. 22:14:49 kc5tja: rxvt -fg white -bg black screen irssi -n kc5tja -c freenode 22:14:56 kc5tja: irssi 22:14:58 is better 22:14:59 night 22:15:03 Like I said, whatever. 22:15:03 :) 22:15:03 good night all 22:15:08 I tried it. 22:15:12 It massively sucked. 22:15:21 Good night! 22:15:29 Night arke! 22:15:30 10am ;) 22:15:37 I have 10PM here. :) 22:15:39 Well, 10:15PM. 22:16:02 9:15 am 22:18:17 Well, I'm off to bed. 22:18:20 Have school tomorrow. 22:19:03 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 22:19:05 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:20:14 Dobroe utro, Serg! 22:20:33 hi 22:22:39 * Serg_Penguin was so unlucky to squish some cookies in my bag, so cleaning out the mess :))))))) 22:32:12 --- nick: Serg_Penguin -> snaga 22:36:37 --- join: segher (~segher@blueice1a.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 22:37:12 Dobroe utro! 22:37:24 Good morning, segher! 22:37:29 --- quit: Herkamire (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:37:30 morning 22:39:16 I'll be back in an hour. 23:09:33 --- quit: snaga () 23:17:19 privet 23:49:15 --- quit: melinda_ (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 23:50:59 I'm back. 23:51:12 Privet, mur! 23:54:20 --- join: schihei (~schihei@grz5.rz.fh-albsig.de) joined #forth 23:54:52 Dobroe utro, schihei! 23:56:37 Morning 23:58:27 hi 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.11.12