00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.11.10 00:58:12 --- join: schihei (~schihei@blueice1a.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 02:52:08 * warp0x00 is away: All The Children Are Dead 03:20:29 --- quit: SDO_AMD (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:06:33 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 04:11:28 --- join: schihei (~schihei@bi-02pt1.bluebird.ibm.com) joined #forth 04:22:13 --- join: IRCMonkey (tat_tvam_a@sw66-92-150.adsl.seed.net.tw) joined #forth 04:22:42 --- part: IRCMonkey left #forth 04:39:37 --- quit: slava (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:13:15 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 05:20:35 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 05:20:47 --- join: schihei (~schihei@bi-02pt1.bluebird.ibm.com) joined #forth 05:27:47 --- join: k_johnson (~k_johnson@65.196.135.240) joined #forth 05:31:17 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 05:42:35 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 05:43:18 --- join: schihei (~schihei@ss02.co.us.ibm.com) joined #forth 06:12:15 --- quit: k_johnson (Remote closed the connection) 06:12:50 --- join: k_johnson (~k_johnson@65.196.135.240) joined #forth 06:12:52 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 06:13:35 --- join: schihei (~schihei@ss02.co.us.ibm.com) joined #forth 06:31:52 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 06:32:33 --- join: schihei (~schihei@ss07.co.us.ibm.com) joined #forth 06:37:03 --- join: mmanning (~mmanning@saturn.vcsd.com) joined #forth 06:40:46 --- join: moritz_ (~moritz@p5087742C.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 06:40:52 hallo 06:43:11 --- quit: warp0x00 (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:43:52 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.31.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 06:58:30 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 06:59:16 --- join: schihei (~schihei@ss2.bluebird.ibm.com) joined #forth 07:16:22 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 07:17:08 --- join: schihei (~schihei@ss01.co.us.ibm.com) joined #forth 07:31:31 dumm di dumm 07:32:17 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 07:32:59 --- join: schihei (~schihei@ss02.co.us.ibm.com) joined #forth 07:51:53 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 07:52:36 --- join: schihei (~schihei@ss01.co.us.ibm.com) joined #forth 07:54:43 :) 07:56:37 inexpensive determined lengthy energy-consuming internet nonstop grief 07:56:51 inexpensive determined lengthy internet nonstop grief 07:58:07 .? 07:58:42 idling 07:59:30 where are you from? 08:13:17 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 08:14:01 --- join: schihei (~schihei@ss02.co.us.ibm.com) joined #forth 08:31:47 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 08:31:47 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:35:37 hello Herkamire 08:41:20 * arke is gonna be home alone for about 6 hours 08:41:23 :) 08:41:27 noooo! 08:41:37 arke: party? 08:41:40 >:D 08:41:42 naaah 08:41:43 hehehe 08:41:44 forth! 08:41:49 not even that .... 08:42:06 installing, compiling, updating, while i'm doing chores and playing PS2 08:42:44 hmmm 08:42:50 if you take the chores out, that sounds pretty nice 08:46:42 this is teh first time ive ever ripped a CD .... lets see how it goes 08:46:49 well, its not too many chores, rally 08:49:45 FFFFUUUUCCCCKKKK 08:49:53 something just randomly killed my X server 08:52:24 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:53:07 fun 08:55:38 howdy arke :) 08:56:00 * Herkamire occationally feels a bit spacy when it comes to paying attention to irc 08:57:48 --- quit: moritz_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:14:09 --- part: k_johnson left #forth 09:23:20 --- quit: warp0x00 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:26:08 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-7b5a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 09:28:47 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.31.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 09:31:56 hey Robert 09:33:06 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 09:42:20 nice, my isp says my service should be reliable again 09:42:31 :) 09:42:36 dont trust ISP's 09:43:00 well, it's already been working longer today than it has in 3 days 09:43:29 it appears that they fixed it last night 09:44:21 :) 09:44:56 hello herke 09:45:04 hi mur :) 09:45:23 --- quit: Robert (Nick collision from services.) 09:45:30 --- nick: Robert_ -> Robert 09:45:51 Robert: different ISP? 09:46:17 Yep 09:46:22 cool 09:46:39 Robert: whats new in your life? hows projektarbete going along? :) 09:47:10 New in my life...studying to become a radio amateur. 09:47:15 :) 09:47:18 Projektarbete is put on ice for now 09:47:35 how far are you with it? 09:47:43 Pretty far. 09:47:49 (put on ice .... its becoming winter in sweden right now, so ... lol) 09:48:02 robert.zizi.org is down? 09:48:25 Hmm.. 09:48:53 It's on its way up 09:49:55 way to the heaven, gold and glory! 09:51:11 terve mur 09:53:06 http://www.notbored.org/the-scp.html the Surveillance Camera Players: 09:58:08 mur: LOL, the answer to the 2nd question in the FAQ: Q. Who's in charge? is a 404 :) 09:59:37 :) 10:06:04 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:06:06 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 10:10:48 --- quit: Robert_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:11:05 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 10:15:41 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:16:01 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 10:20:09 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 10:20:46 Dobryjj vecher! 10:22:13 privet 10:22:28 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD9E5C2DF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:22:45 Dobryjj vecher, schihei! 10:24:44 Nice news, mur. 10:25:09 hello ASau 10:25:23 * arke considers Xlib 10:25:32 Today, I've been pointed into standard transliteration table Cyrillic <-> Latin ;) 10:25:48 Good evening, arke! 10:26:18 how are you? 10:27:43 Just fine. 10:28:43 :) 10:30:22 Fajjn (it's read as "fine"), the member of RAS, once was asked: "How are you?" 10:30:51 "I'm just Fajjn," he answered. 10:31:15 What for do you need Xlib? 10:34:19 Sorry! 10:34:20 --- quit: ASau ("Toffee IRC client for DOS v1.0/b535") 10:34:50 . 10:34:55 . 10:35:12 '. constant silent-acknowledgement 10:35:36 :) 10:35:53 S" :)" constant happy-smiley 10:36:18 More like.. 10:36:24 create happy-smiley ," :)" 10:36:25 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 10:36:28 But then I'm an IsForther 10:36:32 Privet, ASau :) 10:36:38 terve ASau 10:36:40 :) 10:36:45 Privet, Robert! 10:36:46 --- join: rafe2 (~rafe@www.scinq.org) joined #forth 10:36:56 Dobryjj vecher, rafe2! 10:37:11 ?? 10:37:12 Robert: whatever happened to microscheme? lol 10:37:24 Good evening 10:37:29 :) 10:37:33 russian? 10:37:36 good afternoon 10:37:51 looks like a slavic language.... 10:37:56 thoght it was line noise :) 10:38:13 Russian, of course! 10:38:35 :) 10:39:13 If I try to speak another Slavic language, I mix Czeck, Bulgarian, Belorussian and Russian. 10:39:21 ruskij konjechna! 10:39:25 of course immediately obvious to a uni-language person like me ... ni how ma:) 10:39:54 ich meine das wir alle deutsch sprechen sollen. 10:40:04 das ist deutch 10:40:05 denn deutsch ist die schoenste sprache der welt 10:40:13 mur: genau :) 10:40:27 genau? 10:40:35 cats miaowing? 10:40:39 U nemeckogo slishkom malo padezhejj. 10:40:42 "exactly" 10:40:42 :) 10:41:21 ASau: sau in german means (1) female pig (2) a dirty and un-clean person 10:41:21 :) 10:41:55 "Asau" means "fang" in Malqar. 10:42:07 --- join: onetom_ (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 10:42:09 I've realized it this summer. :) 10:42:10 :) 10:42:16 --- quit: onetom_ (Client Quit) 10:42:19 Good evening, onetom! 10:42:23 onetom_: greetings and salutations fellow earth creature 10:42:25 ack 10:42:26 damn 10:42:53 I've been late. 10:43:51 * arke is a box-er 10:43:56 :) 10:51:02 Sorry! 10:51:03 --- quit: ASau ("Toffee IRC client for DOS v1.0/b535") 10:51:18 toffee!? 10:51:20 lol 10:53:03 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 10:53:08 I'm back 10:55:48 :) 11:08:52 re 11:09:45 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 11:10:00 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:17:32 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 11:18:23 --- quit: Robert_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:21:06 --- quit: rafe2 ("Client Exiting") 11:27:15 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:32:06 --- quit: slava (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:32:49 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 11:44:31 --- join: slava_ (~slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 11:44:38 --- quit: slava (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:20:40 --- quit: dubious ("Leaving") 12:38:45 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-67-113-234-125.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 12:42:33 --- join: suprdupr (CrowKilr@HSE-Windsor-ppp252256.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 12:43:07 can someone answer my question: does a forth using esp (x86) as virtual IP exists? 12:46:59 probably not, because its stupid :) 12:47:38 the good thing about being home alone is that you can listen to music loud enough to hear it across the house through several closed doors, while vacuuming 12:48:09 esi is a good candidate for IP, i think 12:48:21 of course, depends on teh type of forth etc. 12:52:38 i think esp is good, definitions dont have byte opcodes 12:52:46 alignment is respected 12:53:14 by using esp, you lose all hardware stack tho 12:53:15 easy to do things as "dwords of machine code between quotes" in the middle of a definition 12:53:56 just write a new colon and semicolon 12:54:00 first one is inlined 12:54:07 the other is referenced like other words 12:54:16 ret is still used to end words 12:54:30 ... 12:54:53 words, i mean low level words 12:55:14 anyway i thought this was interesting, since i wanted to get rid of calls 12:55:23 i tried to use pushes 12:55:56 could be implemented fully, but still 12:56:23 i find the esp as virtual IP easy to build, even inside an assembler 12:56:36 i thought why nobody thought of this 12:56:36 weird :) 12:56:43 because you're a genius? :) 12:56:49 lol nope 12:57:29 esp (imho) is best used for teh return stack 12:57:38 eliminates a ton of call overhead 12:57:45 just the average guy trying stuff; theres only a thin membrane between insanity and genius... =) 12:58:00 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@frees.your.system.with.openbios.org) joined #forth 12:58:02 like, if its psp, then teh call overhead is 12:58:04 hi there 12:58:33 pop eax 12:58:38 mov [ebp], eax 12:58:46 add ebp, 4 12:58:53 but with rsp, theres none 12:58:56 Stepan: hello 12:59:06 suprdupr: also, for ; theres some overhead 12:59:13 namely 12:59:22 mov eax, [ebp] 12:59:27 sub ebp, 4 12:59:45 jmp ebx 12:59:47 eck 12:59:51 my ebp is mov esp, [ebp] lea ebp, [ebp+4] ret 12:59:52 that eax is ebx 12:59:55 my ret i mean 13:00:04 ebx is my data stack pointer 13:00:09 hrm 13:00:12 this sucks :) 13:00:15 lol 13:00:26 i dont know if x86 allows jumps to eax? 13:00:32 yes 13:00:35 jmp [eax] 13:00:39 well 13:00:40 is a valid opcode 13:00:40 i meant 13:00:42 jmp eax 13:00:49 yes also 13:00:58 alright 13:01:01 then it IS eax 13:01:06 eax is my top of stack register 13:01:08 :) 13:01:12 ebx is my tos 13:01:21 someone should spend x86 a couple of multi purpose registers 13:01:30 esp is my virtual IP for my weird dtc forth 13:01:32 yes! 13:01:36 suprdupr: :) 13:01:42 suprdupr: i believe in the power of stc 13:01:50 Stepan: definetely. 13:01:58 me too 13:02:14 but along the way to the best stc compiler i had this weird dtc idea 13:02:28 since i wanted to get rid of silly 5 bytes call/push 13:03:25 by using esp a forth (forth/macro as in colorforth) word starts with : which is inlined each time 13:03:27 true, stc wastes a byte with every call 13:03:43 not a waste, i see it as a misalignment 13:03:54 its a tradeoff 13:04:03 for speed vs simplicity vs size 13:04:10 but anyway you know that ;p 13:04:15 :) 13:05:07 i can also in the middle of a definition toss in some machine code by using words like < and > 13:05:27 < would be a macro doing "here 4 + ," 13:05:51 and > would be "mov esp, AfterRET ret" 13:06:27 the source code format i intend to use is made of byte tokens 13:06:38 much like AHA from Jeff Fox 13:06:55 i have green words, yellow words, magenta words and white words 13:07:04 compiled words, macros, numbers and comments 13:07:38 XXXX XXX1 is the green token, XXXXX=0 means a define, since the first cell of the dictionary contains its length 13:08:02 a define is "Dictionary @ 4 + here !" 13:08:18 oups forgot to update value ;p 13:09:10 Dictionary @ 4 + dup Dictionary ! here swap ! 13:09:24 something like that but could be better 13:09:40 i intend to instroduce a state-system 13:09:43 not really, but swap's ugly ;p 13:10:11 works kinda like colors, but its statebased 13:10:13 like 13:10:14 4 + could be replaced with 1+ if its a dword pointer (it should) 13:10:39 : esc Y 27 G emit ; 13:10:49 which an editor could display with colors 13:11:08 but i prolly wont do that till later 13:11:26 why Y 27 g ? 13:12:00 Y = yellow 13:12:01 G = green 13:12:08 probably not that great of an idea 13:12:18 which is why im pushing it off and marking it as "maybe" 13:14:17 i now but the y is for what? macro state of esc word? 13:15:16 Y = yellow 13:15:19 so 13:15:27 push a word 13:15:31 27 13:21:07 in my token scheme, comments are XXXX X000, xxxxx=0 means no op, it skips xxxxx dwords, so i dont need to build it around ascii text representation 13:22:24 to say that i would not use single letters as colors... im sure there's something better 13:23:37 :) 13:23:46 you can always do huffman 13:48:42 I love my little trick of using esp as a vitrual ip, i posted on the colorforth mailing list, no one answered 13:48:52 i will risk a post on clf 13:51:11 What are you mixing CMYK and RGB!? 14:02:33 terve mur 14:02:34 :) 14:02:35 :) 14:02:35 :) 14:11:30 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@pc95dn1d.ppp.fcc.net) joined #forth 14:11:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 14:11:33 hiyaall 14:11:39 Hi! :) 14:12:01 hey tbw 14:12:01 hiya Robert :) 14:12:06 :) 14:12:06 hiya arke 14:12:11 :) 14:24:19 gotta go...bye all 14:24:33 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 14:25:17 exactly 12 minutes 14:31:30 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 14:36:31 jippie. 14:36:48 the fcode evaluator is working built into openbios 14:38:45 so it can now evaluate fcode sitting on a pci device option rom :-) 15:01:37 --- join: jamc (dne@as3-6-8.asp.s.bonet.se) joined #forth 15:05:20 Hej :) 15:05:58 tja 15:06:42 :) 15:16:34 why does forth need immediate/postpone? they just seem to complicate the language 15:24:40 immediate words are useful. 15:24:58 Without them, you wouldn't have "if", "then", loops, etc etc 15:31:49 --- quit: njd ("Client exiting") 15:38:01 slava_: immediate words are like teh C preprocessor, just infinetely times more powerful 16:11:46 --- quit: jamc ("waste") 16:24:53 I'm actually writing my own rpn language at the moment. it supports quotations, so if/then/else is just: condition [ true branch code] [ false branch code ] ifte 16:25:08 and definitions are just "name of new word" [ code ] define 16:25:32 i'm just wondering if i'm missing out on something big by doing it this way, instead of a more forth-like way 16:27:05 . 16:27:24 doesn't . just print the top of the stack? 16:32:47 sup forth ppl 16:45:00 slava_: after it pops it 17:29:26 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 17:29:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 17:49:21 --- join: Blandest (~yes@24.66.121.31) joined #forth 18:01:12 --- quit: Blandest () 18:16:50 --- quit: slava_ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:50 --- quit: Robert (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:50 --- quit: Herkamire (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:51 --- quit: onetom (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:51 --- quit: mmanning (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:52 --- quit: ianP (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:52 --- quit: warp0x00 (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:52 --- quit: suprdupr (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:52 --- quit: arke (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:52 --- quit: mur (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:52 --- quit: MysticOne (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:52 --- quit: oooo (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:52 --- quit: skylan (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:52 --- quit: chandler (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:53 --- quit: Sonarman (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:53 --- quit: kc5tja (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:53 --- quit: TreyB (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:16:54 --- quit: ChanServ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:17:31 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: suprdupr (CrowKilr@HSE-Windsor-ppp252256.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-67-113-234-125.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: slava_ (~slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.31.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: mmanning (~mmanning@saturn.vcsd.com) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: arke (~chris@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-66.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4649.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: chandler (~darmok@64-145-60-36.client.dsl.net) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: MysticOne (mysticone@mysticone.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 18:17:31 --- join: ianP (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 18:17:32 --- join: oooo (o@virgo.bombsquad.org) joined #forth 18:17:32 --- mode: calvino.freenode.net set +oo kc5tja ChanServ 18:24:57 kc5tja: i wanted to ask you something: did you ever heard of a DTC forth for x86 using ESP as a virtual IP? 18:25:56 i ask everyone that wasnt there when I asked before 18:26:19 i wanted to get rid of push/call opcodes that misalgined 18:26:25 the compiled code of the definitions 18:27:11 anyway, i posted it on the colorforth mailing list 18:27:18 i must go to sleep, see ya everyone! 18:27:29 --- quit: suprdupr ("i want to hear about your project, slava") 18:46:30 hey kc5tja 20:02:39 anybody here up for an experiment? :) 20:02:47 --- join: arkebot (~arkebot@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-66.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 20:02:47 sure! 20:02:51 arkebot (arkebot!-arkebot@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-66.vnnyca.adelphia.net) has joined on stealth 20:03:04 #relaynames 20:03:05 arke: stealth: arkebot 20:03:18 aww .... theres nobody on irc.stealth.net/#forth 20:03:32 know of some irc net that has a #forth channel>? 20:12:20 #part #forth 20:12:22 --- part: arkebot left #forth 20:13:12 --- quit: warp0x00 (Excess Flood) 20:14:21 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.31.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 20:47:07 Back. 20:54:50 hey kc 20:54:53 know of a good editor? 20:55:03 (watch what he'll say, arke) 20:55:28 I personally use vim 6.x for nearly all of my text-editing needs under Linux. 20:55:55 That being said, I'd prefer THE over VI if it were ever implemented for Linux in a timely manner. 20:56:17 well, vim is being a major pain in the ass 20:56:25 so im kinda trying to find something better 20:56:28 hows THE? 20:56:33 kc5tja: THE = The Humane Environment? 20:56:45 Yes. 20:57:07 arke: I don't know. THE doesn't actually *exist* yet unless you're a MacOS 9.x user. 20:57:36 But if you read Jef Raskin's book, The Humane Interface, he goes over a lot of what is/will appear in THE. 20:58:02 ........... 20:58:11 suse comes with a text editor called 'the' 20:59:17 Not the same thing. 20:59:21 http://humane.sourceforge.net 20:59:59 arke: what is that text editor like? :) 21:00:34 im about to try... 21:01:52 its ... weird ... 21:01:58 like a graphical ed 21:01:59 :) 21:02:03 i dont know how to use it 21:02:05 (yet) 21:03:06 does it have an about box? 21:03:35 well, its text mode 21:03:41 hessling-editor.sf.net 21:04:26 interesting :) 21:15:51 arke: stick with vim 21:16:44 I've used a lot of text editors. 21:16:59 I'm trying to think of something I like better about some other text editor, and I haven't come up with anything yet 21:17:03 so have i... 21:17:13 emacs is nice in concept, horrible in interface 21:17:17 others are quicker to learn I guess 21:17:25 pico :) 21:18:10 emacs is great if you're a lisp programmer 21:18:36 how long have you been using vim? 21:19:25 years 21:19:26 :) 21:19:34 about 1.5 years, actually 21:19:38 oh 21:19:46 hmm... 21:19:48 what don't you like about it? 21:20:11 * kc5tja has been using it for longer than he can remember. At least since he used his Amiga on a regular basis. 21:20:17 I was expecting you to say 1-2 days 21:21:31 I used emacs for about a year, and then someone finally convinced my to try vim. 21:21:53 Suzanne used vi/vim for years, then switched to emacs :) 21:22:05 i used emacs for a few months, then found vimtutor 21:22:09 then that was it :) 21:22:14 Sonarman: does she program in lisp? 21:22:18 Interesting. The other THE uses REXX as its scripting language. :) 21:22:20 Herkamire: its just being massively borked 21:22:29 * kc5tja remembers REXX from his Amiga days. 21:22:33 borked? 21:22:42 backspace being a bitch, delete being a bitch, changing teh config files isnt helping 21:22:47 so im just pissed off 21:22:57 Herkamire: i don't know; i just remember her mentioning it here a month or two ago. 21:23:04 arke: Are you using vim under X windows or console? 21:23:06 weird. I've never had a problem with backspace/delete 21:23:18 kc5tja: its doing the same in both 21:23:24 console, rxvt, konsole, xterm 21:23:28 Sonarman: weird. but then I generally found her opinions weird. 21:23:40 * kc5tja has never had a problem with backspace/delete except often times under X11. 21:23:45 . 21:23:48 What exactly is happening? 21:23:55 It sounds more like a keymapping issue than a vim issue. 21:25:18 and usually, rxvt (which is what i use) never has problems with any of that 21:25:55 backspace doesnt backspace, but beeps 21:26:03 delete doesnt concatenate two lines anymore 21:26:16 just press the beep button then 21:26:18 delete also backspaces under certain conditions when its not supposed to 21:26:20 --- quit: Sonarman ("nig") 21:28:10 do: i^Vga 21:28:20 (what is backspace mapped to?) 21:28:28 That is weird. 21:29:24 ive tried everything 21:29:31 none of it works 21:29:31 I have backspace set to 8 21:29:35 and im just plain pissed off 21:29:54 the guys in #hprog convinced me to try emacs again 21:30:05 after they showed me how to set it to hard tabs :) 21:30:28 what's hard tabs? 21:30:51 arke: what do you get when you type: i^V ? 21:31:28 er? 21:31:54 ga will tell you what a funky char is 21:32:24 ^? 21:32:29 is what it does 21:32:43 insert mode, control-v, backspace 21:32:44 right? 21:33:23 right 21:33:35 you could map that to backspace in .vimrc 21:34:03 noremap 21:34:11 inoremap 21:35:55 according to some backspace should be char 8 and delete should be 127 (control ? is 127) 21:36:29 I mapped my backspace key to produse char 8: 21:36:44 in X resources: 21:36:45 *VT100*translations: #override \ 21:36:45 BackSpace: string(0x8) \n\ 21:38:14 but you shouldn't have to do that. just put "inoremap " in your ~/.vimrc 21:39:54 Herkamire: still doesnt work 21:39:57 ack 21:39:59 i hate it 21:40:02 and i give up 21:40:09 kvim and gvim are both doing the same thing too 21:46:46 you still get ^? in insert mode? 21:47:20 yeah 21:48:29 you restarted vim? 21:48:34 that's so weird. 21:49:04 I just tried it and it worked for me (before mapping it if I hit control-? it put in ^?. after it backspaced 21:49:37 did this problem develop recently? 21:50:02 its been like that 21:51:32 do you have "set nocompatible" in ~/.vimrc? 21:53:33 * TreyB does, if he recalls correctly. 21:55:00 yes]' 21:55:01 If I ever do manage to finish Dolphin, I definitely think I'll port an implementation of REXX to it. 21:55:09 kc5tja: Dolphin? 21:55:17 kc5tja: im working on a nice project right now 21:55:18 in C :) 21:55:19 arke: An operating system I'd like to finish some day. 21:55:36