00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.11.09 00:14:42 --- quit: ASau ("Toffee IRC client for DOS v1.0/b535") 00:50:35 --- join: I440r (~mark4@12-178.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth 00:55:56 --- quit: I440r ("Leaving") 01:42:03 --- quit: Robert (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:42:03 --- quit: onetom (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:42:04 --- quit: melinda (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:42:04 --- quit: ianP (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:42:04 --- quit: warp0x00 (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:42:05 --- quit: skylan (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:42:05 --- quit: chandler (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:42:05 --- quit: mur (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:42:05 --- quit: MysticOne (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:42:05 --- quit: oooo (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:42:06 --- quit: arke (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:42:07 --- quit: ChanServ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:43:13 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- join: arke (~chris@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-66.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4649.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- join: melinda (melinda@melinda.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- join: chandler (~darmok@64-145-60-36.client.dsl.net) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.31.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- join: MysticOne (mysticone@mysticone.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- join: ianP (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- join: oooo (o@virgo.bombsquad.org) joined #forth 01:43:13 --- mode: calvino.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 02:16:21 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 02:16:33 --- quit: ASau (Client Quit) 02:38:30 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD95483FB.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 02:44:16 --- join: moritz_ (~moritz@pD9E1EF5E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 02:44:49 hello 03:49:55 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 03:55:52 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD95483FB.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 04:56:55 --- join: Topaz (~jonny@152.78.254.244) joined #forth 05:09:50 some time ago i saw a website by a guy who didn't like modern operating systems like windows or linux, because they are too bloated in his opinion. he wrote a basic operating system in forth and also a database programme. unfortunately i lost the link to his site. does anyone remember this site? 05:12:58 nope 05:24:00 moritz_: when was it, how many weeks ago 05:27:50 re 05:27:58 schihei, hm maybe 6 months 05:28:25 I've looked in my log, but coulnd't find it - sorry 05:28:32 thx 05:29:50 --- join: rO| (rO|@p62.246.42.58.tisdip.tiscali.de) joined #forth 05:29:54 hi 05:31:12 hello 05:35:55 --- quit: moritz_ ("Leaving") 05:50:52 --- join: moritz_ (~moritz@pD9E1EF5E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 05:50:52 re 05:51:49 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 05:53:38 --- quit: rO| (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:57:44 how can i write something like IF NOT? i found the word NOT in some tutorial but it seems gforth doesn't support it 06:30:23 0 = 06:30:25 IF 06:30:27 THEN 06:30:33 \ do something 06:30:43 oh, wrong 06:30:48 0 = 06:30:50 IF 06:30:52 ELSE 06:30:57 \ do something 06:30:58 THEN 06:31:10 works, but is there are more elegant way? 07:21:40 do not first 07:22:08 or 'invert' 07:22:14 0 = invert if ... then 07:23:21 i don't understand your first line 08:48:29 --- join: I440r (~mark4@12-178.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth 09:23:29 --- join: mlg (mlg-no-spa@mg.dorms.spbu.ru) joined #forth 09:23:39 hi 09:25:28 is anybody looking at the screen now? 09:28:44 got no reply; disconnecting... 09:29:10 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD95483FB.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 09:29:15 -chandler(~darmok@64-145-60-36.client.dsl.net)- is mlg a bot? 09:29:24 no, i am not 09:29:58 ok 09:35:08 lol 09:35:10 hi mlg 09:35:16 hi chandler 09:35:20 hi 09:36:13 if u have a q u should ask then idle for a day or 2 :) 09:36:26 that way we get a chance to see it :) 09:36:50 my mailbox at mlg@forth.org contains 3K+ e-mails, this is 13M+. Now I am thinking: can I use any program to "separate flies from cutlets" or is it easier just to ababon that mailbox? 09:37:52 I mean, 90% is junk mail. 09:38:19 hrm you have a forth.org mailbox ? 09:38:38 isnt that skip carters domain ? 09:38:45 he could prolly help u purge 09:39:55 yes. It was installed many years ago. If I could redirect it, this probably would help (since a lot of junk mails goes to mlg@iias.spb.su directly, rather than via forth.org redirection) 09:40:52 forth.org provided redirection service. Used to provide. 09:40:54 can anyone tell me how i can append a char to a string variable? (geez, i need a forth book; jumping from one tutorial to the next, over a wiki into some source and back is a hard way of learning) 09:41:25 moritz_, the string will need to have the extra space allocated to it 09:41:35 moritz: how your string var is implemented? 09:41:58 create my-var 80 chars allot 09:42:21 : insert-char ( c string --- ) count 1+ 2dup swap c! + c! 09:42:23 ; 09:42:41 that appends a char to the end of the string but it assumes that the memory directly after the string is not allocated 09:42:48 erm actually you need a 1 allot in there 09:43:07 ok and the string inside there isnt 80 chars ? 09:43:15 no, it's not 09:43:22 i assume the string is a counted string 09:43:26 yes ? 09:43:27 yes 09:44:01 ok. given the address of the string the word count will give you the address of the actual string and the length thereof on the stack 09:44:20 so if you do 2dup 1+ swap c! you just incremented the count byte 09:44:26 you may lok at 09:44:30 http://forth.sourceforge.net/word/string-plus-c/ 09:44:44 thanks 09:44:46 i'll chew on that 09:44:46 : STRING+C ( addr len c -- addr len+1 ) 09:44:46 DUP 2OVER + C! DROP 1+ 09:44:46 ; 09:44:46 the the + c! points to the last byte of the string +1 and inserts the new char 09:45:00 err 2over 09:45:59 instead of 2dup? ? 09:46:02 thats more efficient if 2over is defined 09:46:02 okay 09:46:02 my stack would be ( char string --- ) 09:46:02 which is more correct in my opinion 09:46:02 because you are storing the char IN the string 09:46:09 : ! ( n1 a1 --- ) ... ; 09:46:18 store n1 at address a1 09:46:29 sdtring+c is prolly some ans crap heh 09:46:32 brb coffee is ready :) 09:46:53 brb dinner (dad insists) 09:47:00 the stack efect for ! is because variable names change less often than values to be stored there 09:48:03 As to ( addr len c -- addr' len' ), this is because it often happens that you need something like 'X' STRING+C 09:48:34 That is, (addr,len) are already there on the stack, and 'X' is a literal. 09:49:31 joy! 09:49:31 im back! 09:49:31 heh 09:49:56 what ever put 'X' on the stack should hav done so before the address was put there, it just looks more correcter to me that way :) 09:50:00 tho in forth NOTHING is wrong 09:50:09 it just LOOKS wrong to my way of thinking :) 09:50:16 what is "prolly"? it's not in my dictionary 09:52:09 a bastardization of "probably" 09:52:10 sorry 09:52:10 <-- lazy 09:52:12 do you pronounce it that way? 09:52:12 no 09:52:12 i pronounce it correct 09:52:14 i think prolly is a chat-only word :) 09:52:14 lol 09:52:18 i visit chats not often 09:52:18 mlg i noticed :) 09:52:28 * I440r loves his new laptop!!! 09:52:55 wide screen, 60 gigs, 1700 mhz cpu (actually closer to 1800) 09:52:57 dvd/cdrw 09:54:48 3 usb 2.0 plus 1 fire wire 09:54:53 'wide' is how much? 09:54:53 39lbs, comes with three visits to a back pain specialist, 30mins battery life? 09:54:53 err hang in 09:55:35 14.4 wxga tft 09:55:39 15.4 10:00:06 --- quit: Robert (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:06 --- quit: mlg (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:09 --- quit: moritz_ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:09 --- quit: onetom (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:09 --- quit: schihei (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:09 --- quit: I440r (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:10 --- quit: melinda (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:10 --- quit: ianP (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:23 --- quit: warp0x00 (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:23 --- quit: mur (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:23 --- quit: MysticOne (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:23 --- quit: chandler (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:23 --- quit: oooo (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:23 --- quit: skylan (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:23 --- quit: arke (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:00:24 --- quit: ChanServ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:01:30 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD95483FB.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: I440r (~mark4@12-178.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: moritz_ (~moritz@pD9E1EF5E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: arke (~chris@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-66.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4649.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: melinda (melinda@melinda.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: Robert (~snofs@c-255a71d5.17-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: chandler (~darmok@64-145-60-36.client.dsl.net) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: mur (~mur@smtp.uiah.fi) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.31.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: MysticOne (mysticone@mysticone.usercloak.freenode) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: ianP (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- join: oooo (o@virgo.bombsquad.org) joined #forth 10:01:30 --- mode: calvino.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 10:26:22 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 10:30:31 moi 10:36:05 --- join: Crefinol (grunlar@dialin-247-tnt.nyc.bestweb.net) joined #forth 10:43:04 hi Crefinol 10:43:16 you a forth coder ? 10:43:16 yo 10:43:37 used to code forth on my amiga 10:43:45 coolo :) 10:43:50 can't find a forth I like on my current system 10:43:54 i never had a decent forth on my amiga 10:43:56 what system 10:43:57 (windows) 10:44:10 1: get decent system 10:44:13 2: get decent forth 10:44:14 heh 10:44:21 well, duh 10:44:22 : 10:44:24 :) 10:44:24 lol 10:44:34 sorry, couldnt resist :) 10:44:38 JForth on the amiga was very good 10:44:45 slow, but good 10:44:46 :) 10:44:51 install linux 10:44:51 Crefinol: you don't like bigforth? 10:45:02 bigforth? ahvn't tried it 10:45:03 suggest debian or gentoo :) 10:45:27 http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/bigforth.html 10:45:40 or you could try porting isforth to DOS :) 10:45:52 actually ive already done that but 16 bit is a bit old :/ 10:46:20 not only that, dos programs tend to not run nicely under windows. 10:46:27 (ie -a dos forth) 10:46:47 try fpc ? 10:47:00 fpc? wassat? 10:47:05 * Crefinol is looking at the bigroth page 10:47:09 buy tom zimmer 10:47:10 bigforth, even 10:47:22 the same guy that did win32forth - fpc is a dos forth 10:47:33 heavilly based on laxen & perry's f83 10:47:39 I dunno: my windows gets cranky when running dos programs 10:47:52 have you tried win32forth itsefl? 10:47:56 er, itself 10:47:58 mine gets cranky when NOT running dos programs heh 10:48:09 no. 10:48:17 well - i installed it to take a look at it 10:48:20 dont like windows 10:48:30 yeah, me neither, which is why I have a mac :-) 10:48:36 I don't like windwos either, but I don't like not being able to find software 10:48:38 i fully intend to NEVER write anything for windows 10:49:09 Crefinol: what do you mean by that? 10:49:29 which 'that' :) 10:49:38 your last comment, silly 10:50:35 well: I gave up on my amiga because I couldn't get new software for it. 10:50:42 aah 10:50:57 then I bought a mac and got rid of it becasue not much software for it ... nad it crashed a lot 10:51:09 several years ago, I take it? 10:51:15 2001 10:51:21 using OS 9? 10:51:59 whatever the last version before they went linux-kernal. The trauma made me forget the details 10:52:12 yeah, that's OS 9, and it's not linux.. it's Mach 10:52:26 your mac came with OS X. you should have used that 10:52:46 unix seems interesting but I'm not sure I have the patience to set it up - plus i like Windows game software 10:52:50 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD95483FB.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:52:58 * Crefinol takes his mac out and steps on it 10:53:03 aah, ok. well I don't program on my game console 10:53:25 just think of windows as a big game console :D 10:53:39 --- join: KrisJohnson (~k_johnson@c-24-98-42-54.atl.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 10:55:34 so anyway, lately I've been thinking of programming in forth again. 10:55:55 Crefinol, install linux - make your current system dual boot 10:56:02 then get my isforth - i think you'll like that 10:56:15 it doesnt have a metacompiler yet tho 10:56:41 Crefinol: hook up your mac again, hold down cmd-opt-o-f when you turn it on 10:56:46 bingo, instant forth prompt :-) 10:56:49 installing linux is a tmepting notion. I'm just afraid of it all going kaploowy - The thought of recmopling the kernal just to install drivers gives me the shakes 10:57:16 Crefinol, dont let it - get gentoo - it will automate building the kernel 10:57:25 in fact it automates building EVERYTRHING 10:57:31 * Crefinol googles gentoo 10:57:43 www.gentoo.org 10:57:47 thanks :) 10:57:48 yes, using gentoo you can be a l33t k1dd13 10:58:04 chandler, will they pH34r me? :D 10:58:10 Crefinol: deinitely 10:58:28 when you tell them how you compile all your programs with -O3 -funroll-all-loops -fdestroy-instruction-cache -fludicrous-optimizations 10:58:32 everything you install will be optimized for YOUR system 10:59:15 yes, so you can spend hours watching your system compile instead of doing something useful in exchange for a 2% speed benefit - or often a speed decrease, because picking the right optimization flags is hard and package-specific 10:59:43 chandler: that's what I'de hope to avoid 11:00:49 my suggestion Slackware 9.1 - it's compiled with reasonable (Pentium II or above) optimizations, and is fast and secure 11:01:24 the problem is I don't eknow enough to pick the right unix for me. :( 11:01:56 one suggestion would be to take that mac out of the closet, load the latest OS X on it, and give it a whirl... 11:02:06 sold it in 2001 11:02:08 ah 11:03:28 that mac was a dog. it would crash when I plugged the usb zip drive in. 11:03:31 there's a few categories of linux - the 11:03:33 oops 11:03:42 the "I don't care just make it work" variety, ala Fedora and SuSE 11:03:59 the "don't make me think about the software, but I want to configure it myself", ala Debian 11:04:13 the "I know what I'm doing but compiling is a waste of time", ala Slackware 11:04:18 I must confess that "I don't care just make it work" agrres with me :) 11:04:24 the "I want to do everything myself", ala LFS 11:04:51 and the "I want to look like I'm doing it myself but don't really know how", ala Gentoo 11:05:04 ok, then I would probably suggest Fedora 11:05:08 it usually "just works" 11:05:14 "usually" 11:05:45 yeah, and when it doesn't, it's just as hard as any other distro to figure out, but provided you're in the category where it works, it is pleasant to deal with 11:08:25 Crefinol, or just get freebsd. it's so simple to use. 11:10:12 freebsd does not do anywhere near the same level of hardware detection and handholding 11:11:57 when i installed freebsd for the first time, when was that?, maybe one year ago? i detected my soundcard, scsi card and scsi cd-writer, which debian did not 11:12:06 s/i/it/ 11:12:36 i've got two soundcards. i ownder what unix can handle that? 11:13:07 UNIX's handling of sounds extends to playing movies, mp3s, and making little blips when you move your windows 11:13:17 oh 11:13:21 don't expect it to do anything fancy like sane handling of >1 soundcard or 5.1 or synchronization 11:13:21 gentoo (which i'm using now) detected the cd-writer but broke on startup when querying it, until i turned scsi off 11:13:42 moritz_: I was referring more to the X stuff, y'know, the essesntials 11:14:12 you mean setting up x? 11:14:16 yeah 11:14:39 and don't tell me about X -configure 11:15:39 worked just fine for me. i just had to change the resolution 11:17:08 I think I'll put off unix/linux a while longer. Int eh meantime, I've started downloadeding win32 forth - that looks interesting 11:17:54 moritz_: yeah, meaning editing XF86Config. Not exactly friendly 11:18:46 what's the problem with editing a single line? i don't bother 11:19:23 It has obviously been far too long since you first did this stuff 11:19:29 ok to convince you: freebsd had trillions of forths (is that the plural?) in it's portage system. gentoo only has gforth 11:19:39 sorry, i dont understand 11:19:50 what do you mean? 11:20:14 if you think editing XF86Config is newbie-friendly in any sense, it's been far too long since you first started using *NIX 11:20:54 chandler, i forgot when i started using *nix :) 11:21:53 once upon a time when p III 700 mhz was still bleeding edge and suse 6.4 the freshest meat to get ... 3 years ago? 11:22:20 three or four 11:23:49 lol, i can still remember setting up debian about 10 itmes because i was so impatient and didn't follow the instructions 11:28:06 hi moritz_ 11:28:38 this channel is getting more action these days :) 11:29:06 * Crefinol just installed win32 forth :) 11:29:44 Crefinol, cool 11:29:48 I440r, hm yes, loads of questions 11:29:55 and it is working! 11:30:04 fsck, my machine is making *very* strange sounds 11:30:13 fan? 11:30:22 moritz_, ask :) 11:30:48 heh load avg here is at 4 11:31:04 kernel compile going plus recompiliung EVERY other intalled item 11:31:06 Crefinol, no it sounds like a saw. one of those who are basically a circle and which are vertical (m not a native speaker :) 11:31:24 circular saw says it all 11:31:31 heh, yes 11:31:46 moritz_, are you new to forth or do you have other questikons ? 11:31:49 questions 11:32:08 I440r, yes i'm new 11:32:26 cool. what OS and which Forth are you using ? 11:34:17 i'm using gentoo 1.4 and gforth (the only one in the portage system) 11:34:45 aha well i just switched to gentoo from debian - not abandoning debian yet tho 11:34:55 you might want to try downloading my isforth 11:34:59 isforth.clss.net 11:35:11 i liked debian but the dependencies got messed up some times 11:35:12 if you emerge nasm you can build the kernel 11:35:21 my forth kernel i mean 11:35:30 then ./extend extends same 11:36:07 im of the firm opinion that isforth is way better than gforth :) 11:37:16 you wrote it? 11:38:59 yes 11:39:11 the kernel is written in 100% pure assembler 11:39:30 she compiles 800k of source per second on my old laptop (amd k6-3/550) 11:39:48 and in 50k of executable i have an almost complete replacement for both libc and libncurses 11:40:03 anything in libc that you want that isnt in isforth can be added in 2 minutes 11:40:48 wow 11:41:25 it also has my memory manager allowing you to allocate memory with 16 byte instead of 4k granularity 11:41:51 still need to write an assembler extension and a meta-compiler tho 11:42:12 * chandler still has flashbacks from his experience coding x86 assembly 11:42:18 make it stop, make it stop! 11:42:28 whussie 11:42:30 :P 11:42:32 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:42:44 no, not wuss, just used to something better-designed 11:42:51 hhe 11:43:00 chandler, which is? 11:43:05 anything motorola 11:43:07 PPC... MIPS... SPARC... anything 11:43:10 yeah, 68k too 11:43:13 except their micro-controlers 11:43:27 like 68HC11? 11:43:31 bleh 11:43:32 The 68HC11 was /much/ better to program in than x86 11:43:45 chandler, hc11 sux compared to the 8051 11:43:52 I won't deny that 11:44:00 specially the new ones by cygnal !!! 11:44:13 im a big fan of the 8051 11:45:30 ppc isn't bad, especially having fused multiply-add 11:46:27 * Crefinol liked the z80. sweet chip in its day 11:48:05 6502 was better hehe 11:48:27 I've heard that but I never tried it. memory-mapped IO, right? 11:48:36 yes 11:48:43 I've heard good things about the HP saturn, but I haven't done anything with it myself 11:48:57 and a very nice instruction pipeline 11:49:34 chandler, does real time embedded control ? 11:50:00 6502 was in the commodore 64, right? 11:50:07 yes 11:50:17 actually that was a 6510 11:50:18 no, the saturn is used in the HP 48 series 11:54:59 --- quit: KrisJohnson (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11:55:39 hm, why doesn't isforth support deleting what you typed? 11:55:57 err sorry, a line editor is in the todo 11:56:01 as is a command history 11:56:08 ic 11:56:13 there are issues i have to resolve with terminfo yet 11:56:16 sorry about that 11:56:43 not had time to resolve them since getting this contract 11:56:49 but contract is going to be over soon i think 11:57:02 you're getting enough contracts to make a living? 11:57:05 I440r: widescreen gives a lot new work space, doesn't it? 11:57:14 mur yes it does 11:57:22 moritz_, this is the first contract in 2 years 11:57:49 I440r: i have widescreen too and i can use a lot programs. a lot more that i woudl otherwise 11:57:50 prior to august of 2001 the longest i had between contracts was a month or two 11:58:15 mur i love this laptop, ive given linux 20 gigs lol 11:58:19 its a 60 gig drive 11:58:58 * mur is running osx 11:59:30 so far i haven't thought installing linux on this, evne it's possible, because i can compile linux programs to work on osx too 11:59:30 huh, that's kinda strange 11:59:35 i got the following programme: 11:59:49 64 constant #name 11:59:49 create blah #name chars allot 11:59:49 blah #name accept 11:59:52 blah 1+ swap type cr 12:00:13 and isForth gives the following output 12:00:16 chars ? 12:00:35 bbl, gotta go to the store 12:00:47 and when i type "hello" it prints "echo" and then it says "Segmentation fault" 12:00:49 i dont support words like cell cell+ cells etc 12:00:54 i KN OW my fscking cell size lol 12:00:56 you can define therm 12:01:02 tho 12:01:28 chars would be 1* ??? 12:01:49 gforth makes problem with this too 12:02:02 its not a problem, they are easy definitions to add 12:02:06 i gotta go to the store 12:02:06 instead of "hello" it prints "ello?" 12:02:08 ill bbl thoi 12:42:37 12:49:38 --- join: slava (~slava@CPE0080ad77a020-CM.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 12:49:58 i've been doing a lot of coding in an rpn langauge lately, and its quite an art form! i love the concept of having all definitions be as short as possible 12:50:32 slava, which language? 12:50:58 moritz_, a language i wrote in fact 12:51:09 ic 12:52:00 back 12:52:06 wb 12:52:54 what's wrong with all those forths? they all claim to be standard conform but they all produce errors with my little programme. gforth does, isForth does and also bigForth does 12:53:22 i always don't know if it's me who's wrong or the forth 12:53:29 isforth is definatlyh NOT standard 12:53:37 okay, but gforth should be 12:53:42 in fact its one of my prime directices to be NOT standard 12:53:43 heh 12:53:50 are there any large GUI apps written in forth? 12:53:53 standard forths arent guaranteed to work the same 12:53:55 why dont you want to be standard? 12:54:02 slava not yet :) 12:54:30 the more i look at the ans forth standard the less i like it 12:54:35 why? 12:54:47 and i dont want to be hurded into a corner and confined by a standard 12:54:56 by being non standard i have MORE control over my forth 12:56:33 look at any ans forth code and the first thing you will see in it is a whole pile of bullshit red tape visual clutter red 12:56:44 erm why is there a "red" at the end of that sentence grrr 12:58:05 but basically ans forth is forth is forth is forth, isnt it? 12:58:16 no 12:58:29 theres a saying in forth 12:58:39 once you have seen one forth you have seen ONE forth 12:58:56 not really true but close ennuff 12:59:16 not good for portabilty 12:59:22 :( 12:59:26 which is another bullshit MYTH 12:59:31 thers no such thing 12:59:46 hense the bullshit visual clutter red tape in almost every single ans application 13:00:07 what do you mean by "red tape"? 13:00:35 glue 13:07:23 hrm went all quiet lol 13:07:30 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 13:10:22 hm got another problem 13:10:33 suddenly i cant use "if" anymore 13:10:42 IF 13:10:42 *the terminal*:2: Interpreting a compile-only word 13:11:14 bye 13:11:52 I440r, you have a clue about that? 13:13:07 i'm trying to interperet the same programme as before 13:13:14 but it throws this error now 13:17:37 --- quit: warp0x00 (Excess Flood) 13:19:10 --- join: warp0x00 (~warpzero@dsl.31.mt.onewest.net) joined #forth 13:19:52 err IF shouldnt be used in the terminal, just insidr : dfs 13:20:40 was that in a : def ? 13:21:12 word definition? 13:21:46 yes 13:21:50 no 13:21:53 a colon definition 13:21:59 you cant do IF outside a word 13:22:00 i just typed 13:22:01 normally 13:22:01 0 13:22:03 IF 13:22:13 ... 13:22:14 THEN 13:22:15 IF is compile onlu 13:22:38 that means i can only use it from a *.fs file? 13:22:52 no, you can use it from a colon definition 13:22:57 no it means tht you have to make a definition 13:23:02 : test if ..... then ; 13:23:04 oh, why is that? 13:23:05 or any other place its compile semantics would be used 13:23:05 0 test 13:23:12 because IF is a compiling word 13:23:17 ok 13:23:26 it compiles a dummy branch forward to the else or the then 13:23:33 moritz_: forth words have both compile and interpretation semantics; if has no interpretation semantics (just compile semantics) 13:23:39