00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.11.08
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05:54:21 <arke> anybody alive?
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06:38:38 <ASau> Good evening!
06:38:49 <ASau> Dobryj veczer!
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08:20:32 <ASau> Dobryj veczer, I440r!
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08:45:31 <ASau> alive!
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09:00:13 <ASau> Good evening!
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10:27:52 <Robert> ASau: Privet :)
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12:04:32 <mur> hi
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12:35:52 <arke_> y0
12:36:01 <arke_> whos going to teh figuk meeting today?
12:36:07 <arke_> erm
12:36:11 <arke_> it is today, right?
12:36:41 <mur> rk
12:36:52 <arke_> ...
12:37:00 <arke_> it was last weekend, huh? :(
12:37:01 <mur> hello?
12:37:10 <arke_> terve mur!! :)
12:37:13 <arke_> ack
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12:37:17 <arke> here i am
12:37:25 <mur> hnnmmm
12:37:26 <mur> hm
12:37:36 <arke> please tell me its today
12:37:55 <mur> today is today
12:38:02 <mur> unless i'm in the future
12:38:35 * arke cries
12:38:36 <arke> dammit
12:38:42 <arke> i missed teh figuk meeting last week
12:39:08 <mur> figuk?
12:39:48 <arke> yrah
12:39:50 <arke> yeah
12:40:14 <arke> DOES ANYBODY HAVE TEH FIGUK LOGS? PLEASE? I'll GIVE YOU MONEY .... just kidding
12:40:37 <mur> what is figuk?
12:40:52 <arke> Forth Interest Group UK
12:41:00 <mur> ok
12:41:38 <arke> figuk logs?
12:41:40 <arke> anyone
12:41:41 <arke> ?
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13:51:30 <warp0x00> what
13:51:42 <warp0x00> is
13:51:42 <warp0x00> up
13:51:44 <warp0x00> guys
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13:59:27 <arke> "Typing is a crutch for poor programmers. It's an obstacle for good ones. " -- Chuck Moore
13:59:31 <arke> :)
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14:17:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard
14:17:18 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all (watching TV)
14:18:41 <arke> hey blue wizard
14:18:47 <arke> .who #epiar
14:18:49 <arke> ack
14:19:10 <mur> tbw
14:27:16 * warp0x00 is away: oooh! zing!
14:30:56 <TheBlueWizard> terve mur
14:31:00 <TheBlueWizard> hiya arke
14:36:35 <arke> :)
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14:47:51 <TheBlueWizard> mur: I cooked up a Python proggie to render any valid Finnish word into a syllablic form, like:  ruokahalua --> ruo-ka-ha-lu-a
14:48:08 <arke> nice :)
14:48:11 <mur> :)
14:48:11 <arke> howeve
14:48:15 <arke> its not forth!!!!
14:48:16 <arke> lol
14:48:28 <mur> can it handle the special cases?
14:49:19 <mur> if there are such
14:53:32 <ASau> Dobryj noczer!
14:55:14 <mur> privet 
14:56:22 <ASau> Privet, mur!
14:57:31 <Robert> Hyvää iltää
14:57:36 <Robert> And privet
14:57:36 <Robert> :)
14:58:03 <mur> hyvää iltaa, Robert 
14:59:04 <TheBlueWizard> arke: I know...I just want to tell mur about it...
14:59:46 <TheBlueWizard> mur: I based the syllablification algorithm on the "Teach Yourself Finnish" by A. Whitney
14:59:55 <TheBlueWizard> gotta chat with a buddy for half hour
15:01:08 <Robert> In Finnish?
15:01:24 <TheBlueWizard> arke: I use Python cuz of good string and regex facility....but of course I could convert it into Forth :)
15:01:43 <TheBlueWizard> Robert: no....my buddy lives in upstate NY
15:01:50 <arke> Robert!!!!
15:01:52 <arke> you're back!
15:02:08 <Robert> I am
15:02:25 <arke> :)
15:02:27 <arke> where were you?
15:02:59 <Robert> At home.
15:03:19 <mur> why weren't you in irc?
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15:03:55 <ASau> Perhaps, he is a real man.
15:04:07 <ASau> Not a virtual one ;)
15:14:17 <ASau> Has anyone tried to process matrices?
15:14:53 <ASau> I've not found solution elegant enough...
15:16:51 <Robert> Well.. I had to become one.
15:17:05 <Robert> Sicne my ISP messed a few things up, and I was standing here with no connection.
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15:47:14 * TheBlueWizard is done chatting...now time for eating dinner!
15:58:49 <mur> good night
16:03:40 <TheBlueWizard> good nite :)
16:17:15 <arke> :)
16:17:54 <arke> Robert: im glad youre back :)
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17:26:18 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Herkamire
17:26:25 <Herkamire> hi TheBlueWizard :)
17:26:37 <Herkamire> my internet connection works again! praise be
17:27:12 <Herkamire> it's been out for about 20 hours (except for about an hour this morning while I was sleeping)
17:27:57 <Herkamire> I got a bunch of nice programming done on my forth though :)
17:28:02 <TheBlueWizard> :)
17:42:09 <Herkamire> drove me nuts. I thought I'd be ok without internet for a while
17:44:23 <TheBlueWizard> hehe...Internet *is* the drug! (gotta call Prez Dumbya to sic cops on Internet ab-users ;)
17:45:02 <Herkamire> I added a feature to my cf editor to take the cursor to the definition of the word under the cursor
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18:09:51 <Herkamire> wb Sonarman
18:15:56 <Sonarman> thasnks Herkamire
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18:23:18 <kc5tja> Hello.
18:23:22 <arke> KC!!!!
18:23:49 <arke> :)
18:24:04 <arke> "Typing is a crutch for poor programmers. It's an obstacle for good ones"
18:24:09 <arke> Name the guy who said this
18:24:19 <arke> And name when, and name where
18:24:24 <arke> you should know this :)
18:24:46 <kc5tja> Moore, Chuck.  SVFIG meeting.
18:24:48 <kc5tja> No idea when.
18:24:55 <arke> actually, no
18:25:00 <arke> it was in #forth
18:25:03 <arke> about a year ago
18:25:05 <arke> :)
18:25:18 <arke> just after teh figuk meeting
18:25:22 <arke> which i missed this month :(
18:25:23 <kc5tja> Well, then I have no idea who actually said that.  My memory for such things doesn't work that far back.
18:25:25 <arke> what was it about?
18:25:30 <kc5tja> No idea.
18:25:37 <arke> no, it was chuck, just not at the place you mentioned
18:25:38 <kc5tja> I work now, I don't have time to attend IRC meetings.
18:25:43 <arke> grr
18:25:45 <arke> :)
18:25:54 <arke> Dec. 6th, ill log it and let you have teh log
18:26:11 <arke> does gforth allow forth to use C libs?
18:26:29 <TheBlueWizard> hiya kc5tja
18:27:32 <kc5tja> Hello
18:29:59 <Sonarman> oh yeah, the log is on tom novelli's site
18:31:32 <kc5tja> arke: You have to recompile the gforth kernel to include the primitives you want.  Or you can use its (undocumented, so I have no idea how) library interface mechanism.
18:31:38 <kc5tja> Yep
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18:33:31 * MysticOne twaps kc5tja
18:33:39 <MysticOne> kc5tja: watch the eclipse?
18:33:51 <arke> Sonarman: link?
18:34:05 <TheBlueWizard> hiya melinda
18:34:29 <melinda> hi TheBlueWizard
18:35:51 <kc5tja> MysticOne: What eclipse?
18:35:56 <Sonarman> http://bespin.org/~tom/old/Chuck%20Moore%205-4-02.txt
18:36:26 <melinda> kc5tja: There was a lunar eclipse tonight
18:37:43 <MysticOne> last one for like, a long time
18:38:20 <kc5tja> MysticOne: Eclipses are highly localized events.  If you saw it, I certainly didn't.
18:38:43 <TheBlueWizard> MysticOne is talking about lunar eclipse
18:38:49 <kc5tja> Yes
18:38:52 <MysticOne> yeah, which is what melinda said :)
18:38:57 <arke> ack dammit
18:39:05 <arke> konsole is so damn slow
18:39:07 <MysticOne> kc5tja: well, the UK, almost all of North and South America could see it :)
18:39:09 * arke gets rxvt
18:39:15 <TheBlueWizard> the moon is coming out from Earth's preumbra now
18:39:17 <kc5tja> I didn't see it.
18:39:23 <MysticOne> kc5tja: did you look? :)
18:39:30 <kc5tja> I was too busy stringing up an antenna.
18:39:34 <TheBlueWizard> quite nice eclipse, I must say :)
18:39:34 <MysticOne> hehehe
18:39:45 <MysticOne> kc5tja: I took pictures on a Mavica!
18:39:46 <MysticOne> they're crappy
18:39:50 <MysticOne> but I'll share anyway if you want :)
18:39:52 <kc5tja> But, I've seen them before.  We just had one not too long ago though.
18:40:05 <MysticOne> kc5tja: yeah, not that long ago
18:40:47 <arke> brb
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19:08:04 <TheBlueWizard> hiya arke....you stayed only 3 minutes there! ha! </sarcasm>
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19:32:46 <Herkamire> *&(*&$ isp
19:48:06 --- quit: Sonarman ("bye")
19:51:02 <kc5tja> Hehe :)
19:51:29 <kc5tja> It was my ham radio station.  Now that I have that antenna tuner, I'm broadcasting on several frequencies.  But nobody has yet heard me though.  Pity.  :/
19:51:45 <kc5tja> Speaking of which, I need to see how my new antenna loads up on 10m.
20:09:29 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye all
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20:35:55 <arke> hey kc5tja ?
20:36:02 <kc5tja> Yes
20:36:14 <arke> are you familiar with linux asm?
20:36:21 <kc5tja> Not really.
20:36:27 <arke> erm, linux _x86_ asm
20:36:28 <arke> :)
20:36:33 <arke> aah ok :)
20:36:42 <kc5tja> I know x86 assembly, not nothing that is Linux specific.
20:36:56 <arke> ok
20:36:58 <arke> another question
20:37:10 <arke> im trying to get myself to use dhcp, not static ip (in linux)
20:37:25 * kc5tja nods
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20:48:15 <arke> ack
20:48:22 <arke> i feel like DOS asm-ing
20:48:39 <arke> but ill have to satisfy myself with linux :)
20:48:52 <kc5tja> This sucks, I have to take my antenna down in order to close my window.  :/
20:49:25 <arke> :(
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20:57:29 * MysticOne smacks kc5tja with a banana
20:58:08 --- quit: arke (Nick collision from services.)
20:59:29 <kc5tja> Why does everyone have to smack me with something?
20:59:35 <kc5tja> How about I start smacking other people instead?
21:00:49 <MysticOne> I don't know anyone else in here well enough to smack them :)
21:00:53 <MysticOne> so ... I just focus on you
21:00:58 <kc5tja> I see.
21:01:01 <MysticOne> and then throw some dice to see what object I'll use
21:01:05 <MysticOne> kinda like a game of chance!
21:01:44 * kc5tja has natural armor +25 against smacks, regardless of weapons used.
21:01:56 * MysticOne twaps kc5tja with a sausage
21:02:51 <MysticOne> kc5tja: soooooo...
21:02:54 <MysticOne> whatcha dooooooooing?
21:03:07 <kc5tja> Trying to get NWN working at the moment, and listening to some stuff on 40m.
21:03:16 <kc5tja> NWN isn't running on my box.  :(
21:03:32 <MysticOne> eeek!  why not?  any errors?
21:03:42 <kc5tja> Yes.  Error is all it reports.
21:03:58 <kc5tja> The nwserver program seems to work, but that's it.
21:04:00 <MysticOne> hmmm...
21:04:09 <MysticOne> you do have direct rendering, right?
21:04:40 <kc5tja> No idea.  It just says it uses SDL 1.2.5 or later, which I have.
21:04:48 <kc5tja> And it does support full-screen capabilities.
21:04:49 <MysticOne> run glxinfo in an xterm
21:04:55 <MysticOne> and look for "Direct rendering: Yes"
21:05:14 <kc5tja> Nope.  It says no.
21:05:15 <MysticOne> (may not matter, but, seems to be a problem most of the time with a lot of 3D games)
21:05:18 <MysticOne> k
21:05:20 <MysticOne> you have to have direct rendering
21:05:26 <MysticOne> at least, for anything that uses OpenGL
21:05:27 --- join: arke (~chris@ca-cmrilo-cuda1-c3b-66.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth
21:05:38 <MysticOne> I'm pretty sure it needs OpenGL
21:06:35 --- join: I440r (~nospam@12-178.lctv-a5.cablelynx.com) joined #forth
21:06:43 <kc5tja> libGL and libGLU indicates OpenGL?
21:06:51 <kc5tja> But why would it need direct rendering if it uses SDL?
21:07:01 <I440r> i need to find some public wifi hotsopts :)
21:07:09 <I440r> just to chek out my new laptop :)
21:07:24 <MysticOne> kc5tja: it uses OpenGL through SDL more than likely
21:07:27 <kc5tja> Heh -- does it have integrated war-chalking support?
21:07:30 <kc5tja> hmm
21:07:33 <MysticOne> kc5tja: in other words, hardware acceleration :)
21:07:42 <MysticOne> kc5tja: what kind of video card do you have again?
21:07:45 <MysticOne> it's an nvidia card, right?
21:07:52 <kc5tja> libSDL itself does not depend on libGL.
21:07:54 <kc5tja> or GLU.
21:08:02 <MysticOne> hardware acceleration
21:08:04 <kc5tja> Yeah
21:08:39 <MysticOne> you need the nvidia driver
21:08:47 <MysticOne> (not the one that comes with X)
21:08:53 <kc5tja> I know.
21:09:09 <MysticOne> that may not be *THE* error ... but, it won't be playable without it :)
21:10:33 <kc5tja> Well, I'm going to try and update now.  Which I just know will blow my X configuration clean out of the water.  :)
21:10:51 <MysticOne> just save everything :)
21:10:51 <kc5tja> That's OK, -- I'm finding KDE to be rather boring now.  I think I'll switch to WindowMaker.
21:10:59 <MysticOne> the only thing you should have to change in your X configuration file is the driver name
21:11:08 <MysticOne> (in the config file)
21:11:58 <MysticOne> I need to install Fedora :)
21:12:10 <kc5tja> Wow.  This is the very first time I've ever heard AX.25 packet on HF.
21:12:15 <MysticOne> oooh
21:12:17 <MysticOne> cool beans
21:13:20 <arke> ack
21:13:26 <arke> HLA != asm
21:13:30 <arke> i rest my case
21:13:58 <kc5tja> arke: What?
21:13:58 <I440r> arke hla is in no way asm - you are absolutely correct
21:14:14 <MysticOne> kc5tja: you ever played with hamcalc?
21:14:18 <kc5tja> No
21:14:34 <MysticOne> kc5tja: I was at melinda's parents' house last night, and her dad is playing with an old lappy that I used to have ...
21:14:59 <MysticOne> well, that I do have, but let him have
21:15:19 <MysticOne> it's an IBM PS/Note ... 486 SLC 25MHz, 4MB of RAM, 85MB HD ... he wanted to put things on it (DOS 6.2, Windows 3.1)
21:15:26 <MysticOne> so we put hamcalc on it so he'd have it if he wanted to take it somewhere
21:15:26 <arke> kc5tja: HLA is High Level Assembly
21:15:54 <arke> I440r: its just a pascal dialect that works a little like x86 asm.
21:15:56 <arke> thats it
21:16:02 <MysticOne> and it's this little program of tons of information all about amateur radio, programs to calculate all sorts of things (like signal loss on cables) ... and it's all written in BASIC :)
21:16:12 <arke> BASIC suxxx0rs
21:16:13 <arke> :)
21:16:25 <MysticOne> btw ...
21:16:38 <MysticOne> high level assembly is an oxymoron in itself :)
21:17:02 <kc5tja> BASIC is nice in some respects.  I find it more convenient than Forth for really quick, one-off programs.
21:17:16 <kc5tja> Especially since it handles strings so nicely.
21:17:49 <kc5tja> But I digress.  I apparently have to ditch X11 to install my new driver (which seems retarded to me), but that's what it's calling for.  Anyway, I'll be back in a bit.
21:17:55 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK")
21:18:36 * MysticOne is curious how you dynamically switch out a driver
21:19:05 <arke> rmmod mod_name
21:19:09 <arke> insmod mod_name
21:19:10 <arke> done
21:19:11 <arke> :)
21:19:20 <MysticOne> not if you're using it :)
21:19:26 <arke> :)
21:19:37 <arke> i find that to be one of teh main advantages of linux over windows
21:19:42 <arke> the whole dynamic driver loading thinhg
21:19:54 <MysticOne> Windows can do it to some extent ... in XP/2K
21:20:04 <MysticOne> some extent being the key words, though
21:20:14 * MysticOne is now a happy mac convert though
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21:23:48 <kc5tja> OK, to upgrade my X server, I must download and install Linux kernel sources, because it must attempt a patch.
21:23:56 <kc5tja> Typical.
21:26:44 <MysticOne> yes, the nvidia stuff requires the Linux source to do it
21:27:47 <kc5tja> Yeah.  I knew that, but I didn't have the kernel sources installed; I thought I did.
21:28:25 <MysticOne> I've got fedora going now ... well, installing
21:28:57 <arke> whats fedora?
21:29:09 <arke> kc5tja: teh most stable kernel release ive ever used was 2.4.18 .....
21:29:23 <MysticOne> replacement for Red Hat Linux since they're not longer going to make it ... they'll only have Red Hat Enterprise
21:29:48 <arke> huh?
21:30:00 <MysticOne> Red Hat is no longer going to make their "consumer" version of Linux
21:30:38 <I440r> ?\
21:30:44 <I440r> commercial only ?
21:30:47 <I440r> or soemthing ?
21:30:47 <MysticOne> yeah
21:30:51 <MysticOne> their Enterprise version
21:30:54 <I440r> since when ?
21:31:02 <MysticOne> since it's been in planning for a few months
21:31:13 <MysticOne> and was announced officially about two weeks ago
21:31:37 <arke> ouch
21:31:48 <MysticOne> nahh, it's not really a big deal
21:31:53 <MysticOne> there's Fedora :)
21:31:56 <arke> so whats fedora? somebody taking teh newest redhat, switching all teh logos, and continuing?
21:32:00 <MysticOne> which is like RH's version of Debian
21:32:27 <MysticOne> where it'll be community run, and RH will work on it (dedicating developers to it) and contributing to it ... but not providing support for it
21:32:59 <I440r> who cares about the support lol
21:33:06 <I440r> you can get all you need of that righer here
21:33:18 <MysticOne> that's why they're discontinuing that version
21:33:21 <MysticOne> they don't make any money on it
21:33:28 <MysticOne> so it's just a drain, even if people are buying it
21:33:40 <MysticOne> so they'd rather give it all away for free and not provide support, and then sell the enterprise version where they do make money
21:34:13 <arke> novell better not do anything evil to SuSE
21:38:06 <kc5tja> arke: I've never had any issues with Linux 2.6.0
21:38:24 <arke> i havent tried the new kernel yet
21:38:27 <arke> maybe i shoudl.....
21:38:34 <kc5tja> It's still beta.
21:38:40 <kc5tja> test9 is what I'm configuring now.
21:39:18 <MysticOne> it won't surprise me if the nvidia driver doesn't work with it
21:40:03 <kc5tja> MysticOne: I worked perfectly with test1.
21:40:09 <kc5tja> Stable as a rock.
21:40:38 <MysticOne> nvidia's official driver?
21:40:56 <kc5tja> Yes
21:41:02 <MysticOne> interesting
21:41:08 <kc5tja> Why is it interesting?
21:41:18 <MysticOne> because it shouldn't be made for 2.6.x afaik
21:41:25 <kc5tja> It's not.
21:41:41 <MysticOne> but it compiled without any problems?
21:41:56 <kc5tja> Yep.
21:42:29 <MysticOne> that's why it's interesting
21:42:33 <MysticOne> it shouldn't have worked
21:42:34 <MysticOne> :)
21:42:48 <kc5tja> Why?
21:43:05 <kc5tja> The module only grants register-level access to the video card's registers.
21:43:10 <kc5tja> (as far as I can tell)
21:43:23 <kc5tja> It's not like it tweaks any other module files.
21:43:31 <MysticOne> because it needs kernel source and has to compile a lot of particular things for its AGP module and all ... I've had it die between minor versions of the kernel
21:43:38 <MysticOne> it doesn't change anything else afaik
21:43:46 <MysticOne> it just makes its own AGP module and then its own module for the driver itself
21:43:46 <kc5tja> Well, we'll see.
21:43:51 <MysticOne> yeah
21:43:58 <MysticOne> anyone here ever make a /boot partition?
21:44:28 <I440r> no
21:44:30 <I440r> not me
21:44:33 <MysticOne> hmmm...
21:44:38 <MysticOne> trying to figure out which one I would set bootable
21:44:40 <MysticOne> I'm assuming /boot :)
21:55:26 <kc5tja> Building 2.6.0-test9
22:07:10 <kc5tja> Wow.  I think I just heard a Hellscreiber transmission on 40m.  That'd be a first for me.
22:07:38 <arke> im gonna go sleep now
22:07:40 <arke> night :)
22:07:45 <kc5tja> 40m is open to someplace in Lithuania or Ukraine.
22:07:50 <kc5tja> night ASau
22:07:52 <kc5tja> err
22:07:53 <kc5tja> arke
22:07:57 <arke> :)
22:07:57 <kc5tja> Doggone tab completion.
22:08:06 * MysticOne watches Fedora continue to install
22:08:53 * kc5tja continues to wait for 2.6.0-test9 to compile.
22:10:00 * kc5tja is thinking of riding his bike into work tomorrow.
22:10:12 <kc5tja> I'm planning on leaving several hours earlier than I normally do.
22:14:41 <kc5tja> Ok, I have to reboot.
22:14:43 <kc5tja> back in a bit.
22:14:44 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK")
22:38:26 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.11.08