00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.10.23
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06:23:17 <BadWolf> hi
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12:53:26 <snowrichard> hello
12:53:29 <mur> terve :)
12:53:42 <snowrichard> spam spam spam .....
12:53:50 <snowrichard> has been irritating me lately
12:54:25 <snowrichard> a virus has been sending me emails designed to appear as microshaft security updates
12:54:25 <XeF4> glorious spam wonderful spam
12:55:22 <XeF4> mur: come to simulaatio
12:55:32 <snowrichard> I actually made a comment to the microsoft web site about them and got a response !
12:56:44 <snowrichard> the response was about as useful as the letter they sent me when they did not hire me but at least they wrote back.
12:58:15 <snowrichard> have started a new open source software forum on my web site.  come and plug your favorite forths :) 
12:59:10 <MysticOne> btw ... other than like, the gforth tutorial ... are there any really well written books on forth?
12:59:38 <snowrichard> Starting Forth by Leo Brodie was pretty good, got me interested, but may be out of print
13:00:12 <XeF4> there is a html-ified version somewhere
13:00:13 <snowrichard> one by Byte Books, threaded interpreted Languages is probaby also out of print
13:00:18 <XeF4> should be easy to find with google
13:00:49 <snowrichard> had a Z80 implementation in it
13:01:50 <snowrichard> my thoughts on design method are probably entirely random and useless but you can read them at veteransinaction.org/files ;) 
13:03:20 <snowrichard> http://veteransinaction.org/files
13:04:26 <snowrichard> http://www.veteransinaction.org/files/Development_Method.html
13:04:38 <snowrichard> this is the specific url I meant :) 
13:07:43 <snowrichard> an example program
13:09:07 <snowrichard> sorry for the spam but it is semi forth related 
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13:16:33 <mur> xe some demoscene?
13:17:25 <mur> good night
13:17:37 <mur> out of battery in laptop 
13:17:54 <mur> and dont bother connecting to currency
13:18:13 <XeF4> mur: yes. http:/www.simulaatio.org/
13:18:19 <XeF4> (7.9.11, Varkaus)
13:19:54 <mur> cant get to varkaus
13:20:00 <mur> 7.9.11?
13:20:10 <mur> 7-9?
13:20:21 <mur> gn
13:20:25 <mur> cya later
13:20:42 <XeF4> 7-9
13:20:44 <XeF4> yes
13:20:44 <XeF4> night
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14:04:04 <kc5tja> doh, a7r isn't here!!  >:(
14:04:16 <kc5tja> MysticOne: I need a new transmission.  It's f00ked.
14:04:47 <kc5tja> I can get a fluid flush and filter change for about $150 or so, depending on where I take it.  That'll add some longevity to it.  But on the whole, the transmission is in need of a rebuild, at the very least.
14:09:56 <MysticOne> kc5tja: awww, what is it? :(
14:11:17 <kc5tja> It's just old.
14:11:28 <kc5tja> As far as the mechanic can tell, it's just well worn out.
14:11:32 <MysticOne> awwww
14:12:32 <kc5tja> There is some evidence that the previous owner had abused it a little bit, by over-revving it.  But he doesn't think that happened very often based on the wear of the mechanics, and therefore, doesn't really contribute to the failure modes I'm experiencing.
14:13:10 <kc5tja> I do have to admit though, my car is a nice mover at 7000 RPM though.  :D
14:13:40 <MysticOne> hehehe
14:13:44 <MysticOne> I'm still eyeing the RX-8
14:13:50 <MysticOne> I haven't gone to test drive one yet because I haven't had time
14:17:40 * kc5tja nods
14:17:45 <kc5tja> My car isn't nearly as powerful as an RX-8.
14:17:50 <kc5tja> I can't afford an RX-8 though.
14:18:28 <kc5tja> But I still enjoy the ride though.
14:18:43 * kc5tja was hoping a7r would be here, so I could get a price quote for the auto-to-manual swapout.
14:19:07 <kc5tja> If that swapout + shipping charges combined are affordable enough for me, I'll definitely go that route (which is something I've always wanted to do anyway)
14:21:17 <MysticOne> can you do without the car for a week?
14:22:11 <kc5tja> Only if I want to skip school.
14:22:22 <MysticOne> because a7r said it'd take a week to do
14:22:34 <kc5tja> yup
14:22:45 <kc5tja> But if I have to do it, I have to do it.  :(
14:23:51 <MysticOne> yeah
14:28:20 * kc5tja wants to become more and more dependent on his bike.  I can ride my bike to a lot of places here in San Diego, although going to work is a bit of a stretch for me.
14:39:09 <kc5tja> Basically, ideally, I'd like an excuse for getting a recumbent bike.  :)
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16:30:08 <kc5tja> brb -- going to the bank to take care of some issues, like depositing my check from INO.  :D
16:30:11 * kc5tja is away: Bank.
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17:33:43 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
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17:35:49 <suprdupr> hi
17:35:53 <TheBlueWizard> hiya suprdupr
17:35:54 <suprdupr> i got an idea yesterday
17:35:58 <suprdupr> for my compiler
17:36:34 <TheBlueWizard> hmm?
17:36:34 <suprdupr> i was already pushing addresses on stack from green words at compile time, to compile push push jump sequences
17:36:53 <suprdupr> but i got literal and other strange adresses (for/if) to handle
17:37:11 <suprdupr> so i thought why not use dword adressing and have 2 bits for a small inter-compiler tokenization
17:37:13 <suprdupr> =)
17:37:28 <suprdupr> i can stack up adresses, ?lit is simpler than before
17:37:59 * suprdupr see its project slowly taking shape
17:38:39 <suprdupr> i must rush it, its due for december and i will probably do the image processing for the class's hoemamde spectrometer
17:39:06 <suprdupr> its getting great for a college actually ;p
17:39:07 * TheBlueWizard isn't sure he follows your train of thoughts, but shall leave it at that
17:41:54 <suprdupr> i need my forth dialect finished
17:42:04 <suprdupr> so that everybody can use the software
17:42:22 <suprdupr> anyway, the stack stack up literal values and adresses of word to be compiled
17:43:56 <suprdupr> so ?lit look only at the color of the 32 bit token (of wich 30 bits are dword address of word or lit encoded ARM style)
17:44:29 <suprdupr> my arithmetic operations will thus be able to process literals - literals operation in the compiler itself
17:44:43 <suprdupr> with a little token in the way, that's it
17:44:45 <TheBlueWizard> so your Forth depends on 32-bit addressing scheme and that it be 4-byte aligned?
17:45:01 <suprdupr> yep, i use the align word from colorforth
17:45:19 <suprdupr> i align each red words
17:45:56 <suprdupr> in my forth they are also the trailing ; of the previous word 
17:46:13 <suprdupr> fallthrough are explicit, with the word ..., yet to be thought of
17:46:40 <suprdupr> red words also compile the push push sequence
17:46:49 <suprdupr> in fact they act like a small color interpreter
17:46:56 <suprdupr> nested interpreter...
17:47:06 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...interesting
17:47:10 <suprdupr> not convinced its the best way, but its because im using byte wide tokens
17:47:15 <suprdupr> in the source
17:49:01 * suprdupr is wondering now if he could build a four color colorforth
17:51:30 <suprdupr> i still see myself running around in circle of the original colorforth
17:51:31 <TheBlueWizard> four?
17:51:40 <suprdupr> to use 2 bits all the way
17:51:50 <TheBlueWizard> ah....hmm....
17:52:18 <TheBlueWizard> I'm sure you will get very imaginative at this point
17:54:09 <suprdupr> bah i dont see anything yet, maybe it will come to this
17:54:58 <suprdupr> but my 30 bits -- 4 colors tokens are neat, they solve many problems i had with literals and for/if constructs
17:56:01 <suprdupr> chuck, IIRC, use the data stack at compile time to hold  the compiled "if" address, so the "then" can put the calculated forward offset there
17:56:42 <TheBlueWizard> that's correct
17:57:34 <suprdupr> i used to think i could use the name space (128 callable words, first 64 executables as macros) for conditionals, but its ugly
17:58:39 <suprdupr> Chuck was right when he said colorforth code is a gold mine
17:59:01 <suprdupr> already "forked" the align word
18:02:15 <TheBlueWizard> I just pulled up the old FORTH source code that I got from Net some years ago, and here's the code for IF / THEN:
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18:02:54 <suprdupr> brb circa 2 hours
18:04:07 * suprdupr is out to eat with girlfriend after rushing , tough day
18:04:16 <TheBlueWizard> : IF COMPILE 0BRANCH HERE 0 , 2 ;
18:06:51 <TheBlueWizard> : THEN ?COMP 2 ?PAIR HERE OVER - SWAP ! ;
18:44:13 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go....bye all
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20:18:07 * kc5tja is back (gone 03:47:55)
20:18:36 <kc5tja> Back.  That was a bit more than a trip to the bank, but...  
20:39:17 <MysticOne> kc5tja: I doubt I could afford to trade in my car to get a new RX-8 :(
20:39:31 <kc5tja> Then don't.
20:39:34 <MysticOne> my car has 8k miles, and I bought it in December ... paid $26k for it, it's only worth under $18k :(
20:39:38 <kc5tja> The good things come to those who wait.  :)
20:40:33 <kc5tja> Besides, from a purely practical point of view, its fuel economy isn't stellar -- like all rotary engines, 24MPG freeway (though its city mileage isn't too bad at 18/19 MPG).
20:40:34 <MysticOne> hehehe
20:40:39 * MysticOne nods
20:40:50 <MysticOne> melinda is looking at a Toyota Prius right now ... it's hybrid :)  54mpg highway
20:40:55 <kc5tja> Yep.
20:41:09 <kc5tja> If I weren't so enamored over the rotary, that'd definitely be the car I'd get.
20:41:17 <kc5tja> I may still get it, despite the '8, actually.
20:41:21 <MysticOne> I really wanted a hybrid SUV
20:41:30 <MysticOne> but, they didn't have any when I got mine ...
20:41:36 <MysticOne> actually, I'd cry to get rid of my car, because I luff it lots
20:41:40 <MysticOne> so, the RX-8 is a fantasy :)
20:42:02 <MysticOne> I bet it'd hug me like the guy on the commercial
20:43:37 <kc5tja> It's a fantasy for me too.  :(
20:43:44 <kc5tja> Hehe
20:44:08 <MysticOne> oh well
20:44:11 <MysticOne> they're just so pretty!
20:44:24 <kc5tja> Yes.
20:44:28 <kc5tja> *sniff*
20:44:46 <kc5tja> Why, oh, why can't they improve on the fuel economy -- that's what I want to know.
20:45:03 <fridge> its a conspiracy
20:45:52 <MysticOne> kc5tja: they probably could if it wasn't a sports car
20:46:37 <kc5tja> Well, Mazda has plans on releasing a H2-burning rotary when H2 finally becomes viable.  The rotary is damn near the ideal engine (along with the gas turbine, of course!) for burning H2.
21:01:07 <MysticOne> kc5tja: what's the 0-60 on RX-8 again?
21:01:56 <kc5tja> 5.9 seconds IIRC.
21:01:59 <kc5tja> I'd have to verify.
21:02:08 <kc5tja> Pretty quick for a 4-seater, but nothing like the 3rd generation RX-7.
21:02:13 * MysticOne nods
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