00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.09.29 00:03:26 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:03:34 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 00:16:19 Well, I'm off to bed. 00:16:34 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 00:19:36 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:19:41 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 00:35:34 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:35:42 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 00:38:08 --- quit: _gps_ ("Client exiting") 00:47:06 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD95488D6.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 00:51:26 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 00:51:51 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 01:07:32 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:08:04 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 01:24:08 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:24:13 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 01:39:54 --- quit: rk (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:40:29 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 01:56:42 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 01:56:50 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:12:05 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 02:12:43 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 02:25:26 --- nick: rO|_ -> rO| 02:28:25 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:28:51 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 02:44:37 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:45:05 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 03:01:12 --- quit: x0nfscked (Connection reset by peer) 03:01:17 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 03:19:44 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:35:34 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 03:45:22 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 03:48:23 --- join: flyfly (~marekb@mail.melzer.cz) joined #forth 05:06:16 --- quit: Robert ("brb") 05:15:49 --- join: karingo (karingo@71.portland-15-20rs.or.dial-access.att.net) joined #forth 05:17:16 --- quit: karingo (Client Quit) 05:29:02 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h31n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 06:12:06 --- join: mmanning (~mmanning@saturn.vcsd.com) joined #forth 06:12:13 --- nick: mmanning -> I440r-wrk 06:16:29 --- join: yasam (~sam@210-55-46-104.dialup.xtra.co.nz) joined #forth 06:28:57 --- quit: flyfly ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.1") 06:46:08 --- quit: yasam ("dumdumdumdum") 07:00:40 --- quit: SDO (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:02:25 --- join: ez4 (~ez4@pcp01518726pcs.reding01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:05:54 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 07:06:43 y0 07:06:45 got a problem 07:06:47 pygmy doesnt like if or then or do or loop or for or next or any of the control ones, for some reason. 07:07:10 Are they implemented? 07:07:17 Yes 07:07:21 after 07:07:22 1 LOAD 07:07:29 it says a bunch of not unique's 07:07:34 they still dont work though 07:07:41 (including IF not unique, etc.) 07:07:54 Robert: Good Morning, btw 07:08:18 Good afternoon. 07:08:46 do you have any idea whats going on? 07:09:18 No. 07:09:27 Use IsForth instead. 07:09:33 No. 07:09:35 :) 07:10:04 I like Pygmy too much :) I love it, actually 07:11:10 How did you do when you got those words to work last time? 07:14:49 er? 07:16:08 You just said that you like pygmy. 07:16:15 So I assume that you have used it. 07:16:21 yes 07:16:22 and 07:16:23 i dont know 07:16:28 :( 07:16:29 Don't know what? 07:16:35 Has it worked for you before? 07:16:36 how it worked 07:20:50 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:21:06 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 07:36:42 --- quit: arke (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:37:16 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 07:52:53 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:53:26 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 08:03:43 --- quit: ez4 () 08:09:14 --- quit: arke (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:09:39 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 08:19:22 --- join: SDO (~SDO@co-trinidad1a-42.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 08:25:32 --- quit: arke (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 08:26:04 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 08:37:58 --- join: ianP (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 08:38:37 Hi ianP 08:42:06 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:42:13 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 08:58:08 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:58:13 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 09:14:51 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:15:25 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 09:31:25 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:32:10 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 09:47:40 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:47:47 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:03:19 --- quit: rk (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:03:48 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:19:42 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:19:58 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:29:41 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 10:29:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 10:36:10 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:36:18 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:44:20 --- join: gilbertdeb (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-37.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:46:04 ping: unknown host forthfreak.net 10:46:21 it appears i'm the only one unable to access forthfreak :( 10:46:44 He's got DNS configuration issues, I think, because there was a brief moment when I couldn't see it either. 10:47:04 (not recently, but a while ago) 10:47:13 I see it fine here in California though. 10:47:20 the last time he was here, I couldn't access it. 10:47:30 and I still can't access it, but I could previously. 10:50:49 * kc5tja ponders going into the kit manufacturing business as a source of income. 10:51:32 What kind of kits? 10:51:48 Diagnostic equipment to start with: DMMs, frequency counters, signal generators, etc. 10:52:02 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:52:08 Basically, the stuff I need to take on more ambitious projects. >:) 10:52:10 Oh, cool. 10:52:23 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:53:01 kc5tja, are these hard/easy to do? 10:53:09 They're very easy to do. 10:53:33 kitsrus.com =) 10:53:34 The hardest part is deciding in what order to stuff the printed circuit board. 10:53:43 ah you have electronics experience and general 'building stuff' experience already ... 10:53:50 fridge: Ramsey, SWL, and so many others. They all seem to be surviving quite well. 10:54:35 gilbertdeb: Yep, and I'll document this stuff in the instructions of course. Generally speaking, ports are the LAST things you want to put on the PCB, because all the other components are so small in comparison. 10:55:01 and they'll be forthy right? ;) 10:55:14 Heh. 10:55:25 Program the frequency counters in Forth :D 10:56:03 How do you make frequency counters for VHF and above? 10:56:08 Robert: Actually, EVERYTHING will be programmed in Forth, and programmable. 10:56:13 Is it even possible, with cheap components? 10:56:17 kc5tja: Neat! 10:56:18 That's going to be one of my unique selling points. 10:56:22 I have a friend thats into all that, we use a temperature sensors he made at our sites 10:56:52 would like to find a kit for measuring humidity 10:57:12 And they'll be interfaced to a computer using a serial loop interface instead of RS-232. The loop interface enables automatic auto-config, and will use the IEEE-488 bus command set. 10:57:18 Or some variation of it. 10:58:02 Most devices will be 65816-based. 10:58:18 you're not using the rs-232 ? 10:58:23 gilbertdeb: No. 10:58:29 I do'nt see a serial loop interface on my lappy! 10:58:34 RS-232 can address precisely one, and only one, device. 10:58:51 gilbertdeb: The parallel port will be used to control the serial loop interface. 10:59:03 gilbertdeb: That'll be another kit. :) 10:59:03 ah okay. 10:59:07 heheh. 10:59:18 hmm, it seems you can do this using very cheap PCs 10:59:27 * kc5tja nods 10:59:32 Do what?= 10:59:41 Frquency counters and stuff? 10:59:42 so you can just sell them a whole 'kit' including the PC for some $$$ 10:59:45 value added. 10:59:48 Heh. 10:59:48 gilbertdeb: Uhh ... no. 10:59:53 A PC is gargantuan in size. 10:59:54 ebay has been selling amiga monitors for $150 =( 11:00:13 fridge: Shit, that's expensive. I got my Amiga+Monitor for $30. 11:00:17 kc5tja, so they buy their own PC? 11:00:20 fridge: And a C128D too :D 11:00:24 fridge: Amiga monitors are fully RS-134 compliant -- besides their low volume, you're paying for a very high quality monitor. 11:00:44 gilbertdeb: You're missing the point. 11:00:54 fridge: The only thing I hate about it is a LOUD high-frequency noise. ;) 11:01:02 kc5tja, you build them a kit interfaceable to a PC right? 11:01:04 Look how small a typical DMM is, now compare that to the size of even the *smallest* PC motherboard, let alone PC power supply. 11:01:11 gilbertdeb: I just said that. 11:01:22 gilbertdeb: Each device has a serial loop interface. 11:01:30 The serial loop interface is controlled off of ONE PC's parallel port. 11:01:44 I'll make Linux drivers for it or some such. Windows users are on their own. 11:02:36 kc5tja: Are there any modern, cheap, small, low-power architectures today? Except handheld devices, of course... 11:02:41 The loop interface is structured similarly to MIDI: each device has an IN and OUT port. Unlike MIDI, there is no pass-thru port -- it's not needed. 11:03:05 Robert: no. Pick any two of the three criteria, and yes. But all three? No. 11:03:25 cheap, small, lowpower 11:03:29 cheap lowpower 11:03:34 small lowpower. 11:03:47 you can market this in all 3 categories :) 11:03:57 You forget cheap and small. 11:03:58 just remember to call them 'solution' or 'option'. 11:04:04 yeah that too. 11:04:08 cheap small 11:04:12 there was 4 criteria 11:04:23 fridge, time makes it 'modern'. 11:04:40 it is too expensive to buy a non-modern thingamabob in large quantities 11:04:54 The point is, diagnostic equipment are controlled via the serial loop interface, which is inspired by HP-IL, itself a variant of HPIB. 11:05:25 The only difference is, my serial loop interface is going to be substantially faster (provided the hardware on the loop can keep up) 11:05:48 HP-IL's maximum data rate is around 20kbps, while I'm looking at approximately 500kbps. 11:05:59 kc5tja: it just seems wrong that I can get a brand new 17" monitor for the same price 11:06:07 fridge: Volume. 11:06:23 kc5tja: I was thinking about what you could do with something like modern calculators. They can run many, many hours on two AA batteries, are relatively cheap, and could run useful software.. if they only had real keyboards and better systems. 11:06:40 fridge: millions of VGA monitors are in production today. 11:06:59 Robert: Real keyboards would suck power. 11:07:20 Robert, the calculator keyboards are pretty good I think. 11:07:38 Robert: They last forever because (a) the CPU doesn't run if nothing is happening, and (b) the LCD displays they drive are incredibly low resolution, so they can get away with significantly slower refresh rates, and (c) they're dedicated purpose, not general purpose. 11:07:50 unless you really have a lOT to punch in, in which case the stuff can be uploaded from a PC (if that option is available) 11:08:11 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:08:14 My TI-83's batteries drain like a siv when using the serial link. 11:08:34 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 11:08:36 what does an IEEE-488 connector look like? 11:08:47 And do NOT hot-sync a Sony Clie with less than 75% batteries -- you'll quickly find yourself with less than 25% after the sync operation (obviously depending on how much you have to sync). 11:09:32 fridge: It's a 24-pin, parallel connector that looks vaguely like a smaller version of the Centronics printer port (I'm not talking about the DB-25 port, but the 36-pin port).. 11:10:03 kc5tja, go for it man! 11:10:37 And the nice thing about the kit industry: I don't have to bother with cases! :D 11:10:43 And that's one of the most expensive parts of any device. 11:10:55 kc5tja: Why would a better keyboard suck that much power? 11:10:57 And it's nice and low-overhead. The only inventory I keep, realistically speaking, are PC boards. 11:11:19 Robert: Well, most all "real" keyboards have their own microprocessor on them, and hence, draws more power that way. 11:11:28 The other reason is that you have more keys, and hence, a larger scanning matrix. 11:11:49 More signals are going to be toggling high and low, and that means more power consumption there. 11:11:54 Hmm, okay. How much can it draw? Much more than a few mA? 11:12:26 Robert, for a tiny device running on AAA batteries? 11:12:39 I would say no more than 10mA if you passively scan a keyboard matrix the size of a PC's keyboard matrix. But if you have the keyboard's own microcontroller active, you're talking about 25 to 50mA. 11:12:39 gilbertdeb: What? 11:13:22 kc5tja: Yeah, but you wouldn't be using a PC kb with LEDs and a separate processor anyway. 11:13:39 None of my devices will have more than 16 buttons on them, guaranteed. :) 11:14:03 One 6522 VIA chip would easily handle the device's own keypad. 11:15:44 I figure each device would have two VIA chips. That gives me a HECK of a lot of I/O capability. 11:16:39 Two serial ports for use in the loop interface (one in, one out), and 32 fully independent I/O bits. 11:16:46 Four timers too. 11:16:53 Hehe. 11:17:08 And with creative use of the CA1/CA2/CB1/CB2 pins on the VIAs, even an interrupt controller for free. :-) 11:17:16 kc5tja, what about buyers? 11:17:20 I built a little computer, with an 8-pin DIP switch (4 pins N/C) as input device :D 11:17:28 gilbertdeb: That's the responsibility, believe it or not, of my mother and father. 11:17:41 they have customers for you? 11:17:43 My parents are opening a number of web stores. 11:17:45 Programming it is very, very annoying and hard (since the language used is brainfuuck), though. 11:17:52 ah I see. 11:18:15 They're responsible for product promotion and books, and I'm responsible for product delivery and technical support. 11:18:50 My mom wants to sell little crystal figurines, my dad wants to sell photographic and astronomical equipment, and I am still deciding what I want to do. but this kit idea seems to be the most viable idea I've had yet. 11:19:48 do it! make some $$$$$$$.$$ 11:19:49 :) 11:19:56 I'm serially going for it. 11:19:58 GAHH! 11:20:03 s/serially/seriously/ 11:20:11 That's got to be the biggest Freudian slip I've ever made. :D 11:20:12 freudian slip? 11:20:16 or Ohmian slip? 11:20:18 :) 11:20:26 Kirchovian slip. :D 11:20:38 heheh. 11:20:51 make 7 figures and retire early :D 11:20:56 Heheh ... no. :) 11:20:59 It won't be that lucrative. 11:21:08 But it definitely has the potential to become self-sustaining. 11:21:12 Which is exactly what I want. 11:21:23 Small Wonder Labs started as a one-man QRP radio kit company. 11:21:28 I think he has three or four employees now. 11:21:39 They've stabilized in size, but they're making enough to pay bills, and live off of. 11:21:56 They also have a wide variety of product offerings now. 11:22:18 I think the first things I'll produce are a frequency counter and a signal generator. 11:22:19 --- quit: schihei (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:22:42 They seem to be the simplest to produce. 11:22:56 well, when you become very rich ... 11:22:56 DMMs are slightly more complex, because they need to handle both voltage and current, and I need to do research how to do this safely. 11:23:06 if you need someone to see whats on TV and fetch the papers, i'm your man :D 11:23:07 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD9E5CEFE.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 11:23:14 Heheh :) 11:23:52 That depends on what you're good for -- what your unique skills are. My mom can handle the web aspect of it, but if you could increase sales through some other means, I'd be all for that. 11:23:56 (obviously!) 11:24:11 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:24:12 but ... 11:24:14 How good are you at equipment repair? 11:24:24 my unique skills: fetching newspapers and seeingwhats on TV :) 11:24:27 not good enough? ;) 11:24:37 Heh 11:24:41 Haha. :) 11:24:42 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 11:24:59 If sales get to be big enough, I'm sure we can work something out where you can help fulfill orders. 11:24:59 well, I fix computers every now and then here. 11:25:09 people like paying me for it too, but they don't come often. 11:25:13 It's a brainless activity, but it has to be done. 11:25:38 * gilbertdeb wonders a little about his unique ability to break anything. 11:25:49 Hmmm. that sounds good :) 11:25:55 The equipment you'd be selling is already broken. That's the point of a kit. :D 11:26:00 hehehe 11:26:15 * kc5tja notes that SWL is currently four weeks behind on his orders, because he can't keep up. 11:26:22 Even with his employees. 11:26:32 they need more people then. 11:26:37 I say "he", because I remember when SWL was run entirely by Dave Benson, NN1G. 11:26:44 simplest way is to use contract workers. 11:26:51 gilbertdeb: Problem is, it costs a lot of money to hire even one person. A LOT of money. 11:26:58 * kc5tja nods 11:27:02 how much does he pay his people? 11:27:02 That's how I'd do it. 11:27:05 I don't know. 11:27:29 people are kinda expensive. 11:27:33 Yep 11:27:41 And government restrictions on hiring people don't make it any easier. 11:29:01 I say hire some robots. 11:31:35 one major disadvantage of insisting on not owning a car in miami: regular drenching rain. 11:31:45 Heheh :D 11:31:57 gilbertdeb: Get yourself a recumbent bike with a fairing. 11:32:12 Expensive, but healthy, and you'll be better protected from the elements. 11:32:26 And since Florida has no hills, you'd be able to regularly achieve 30 to 50MPH on it. 11:32:52 Hmmm. I'll look around for a cheap one. 11:33:34 Good luck. :) If you find a cheap one, I'd be interested. :D 11:34:00 sure thing. 11:34:01 Recumbents are NOT cheap out here. The cheapest I've found was $900 or so, and it was a total piece of shit. 11:34:05 there is a canadian company selling greenspeed lookalikes 11:34:17 for a bit more than half the price 11:34:35 the cheapest recumbents are those hacked together from broken parts. 11:34:55 a bit more? a binary digit more? ;) 11:35:39 I've ridden greenspeed and trisled 'bents... would love to have one.. maybe next year ;) 11:37:04 http://www.eco-cycle.ca/ 11:37:06 thats the one 11:37:50 that looks like a beach chair with large wheels! 11:38:11 gilbertdeb: That's essentially what a recumbent bike is. 11:38:38 gilbertdeb: but they're damn comfortable to ride, and they're fast bikes compared to an upright. More torque to the wheels because of the more relaxed position you take while riding it. 11:39:08 I've heard they're inferior when climbing hills 11:39:27 Depends on your point of view. 11:39:37 It also depends on the bike, it seems too. 11:39:55 brb 11:39:58 They claim you can't stand on the bike, and that's why it's inferior. Hence, only muscle-power drives the wheel, instead of body-weight. 11:40:23 But what they fail to remember is that when standing, ONLY body-weight drives the pedal; muscle does nothing (in fact, muscles are used to maintain your standing posture). 11:40:38 With a recumbent, you push yourself against the back fo the chair -- you're reinforced. 11:40:39 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:40:52 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 11:40:55 Hence, ALL muscle power goes into the drive train. 11:41:05 If you're out of shape, yeah, a recumbent will not be as good going up a hill. 11:41:09 well on my bike I know I use my arm muscles to force my body down and counter act my legs 11:41:30 If you are in shape, you'll probably be able to blow past (easily) a standing upright rider who weighs only 150 lbs. 11:41:33 I guess you have the same in a bent in the form of a seat firmly wedged against your back 11:42:09 * kc5tja notes that he gets much more tired much faster if he uses his arms while standing. I find it to be very counter-productive. 11:42:21 As per my aikido training, I overwhelmingly let my body to all the work. :) 11:43:06 After all, I weight 220 lbs or so (believe it or not, I don't look it!), so 220 lbs on a 7.5" moment arm -- do the math -- that's a lot of torque. I produce about 1.2HP that way, even if it is only bursty. 11:43:31 But I very rarely ever stand on my bike. 11:43:39 same 11:43:42 Even going up a 10% grade, I much prefer to sit and pedal while going up the hill. 11:43:54 I just drop the bike to a lower gear. 11:44:03 on most hills I notice I'm using my arms though 11:44:14 to keep me _in_ the seat ;) 11:44:31 Heheh :) 11:44:37 I don't. I just lean over and adjust my center. 11:44:54 I'm not fast going up a hill, but I get a great workout, and that's really all I care about. 11:46:33 brb -- phone 11:47:52 I should do some work 11:49:21 --- join: ez4 (~ez4@pcp01518726pcs.reding01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:56:24 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:57:09 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 12:13:25 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:13:36 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 12:19:01 back 12:19:25 Hi :) 12:19:33 re 12:19:50 * Robert can finally contunie developing the Forth after upgrading and reinstalling the system. 12:20:00 * kc5tja nods 12:21:53 * kc5tja needs to eat. BRB - cooking some rice. 12:26:05 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-37.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 12:29:19 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:29:27 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 12:31:47 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 12:43:30 --- quit: gilbertdeb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:45:44 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:45:52 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 13:01:56 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:02:04 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 13:17:58 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:18:04 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 13:33:50 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:34:18 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 13:39:07 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 13:39:43 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 13:40:18 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 13:48:55 --- quit: gilbertbsd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:50:07 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:50:14 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 14:06:15 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:06:33 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 14:22:05 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:22:35 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 14:38:11 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:38:45 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 14:47:44 --- join: gilbertdeb (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-37.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 14:50:58 I believe the fig-forth folks meet this weekend right? 14:51:14 I don't know. 14:51:18 first saturday of the month? 14:51:20 * gilbertdeb goes to check 14:54:33 yeah it is. 14:54:34 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:54:41 What time? 14:54:45 9pm UK time 14:54:50 what the hell time is that? 14:54:52 4? 14:54:54 5? 14:54:56 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 14:55:02 Don't know. 14:55:18 If it could be converted to GMT, I'd be able to translate it to our local times. 14:55:20 hmmm. x0nfscked you keep getting on and off, does it have anything to do with adelphia? 14:55:32 is UK time not GMT already? 14:55:46 Doesn't have to be. UK has time zones too, IIRC. 14:56:18 two at the most. 14:56:20 hmmm. 14:56:35 Well, you're in Miami, so you're GMT-5. 14:56:40 I think one is 1+ GMT (london time?) 14:56:40 I'm GMT-8. 14:56:50 3 Pm 14:57:00 and since I'm in miami, I'll join at 1 pm. 14:57:11 that way by 3pm (miami standard time) I'd have arrived. 14:57:12 :) 14:57:24 :) 15:09:25 --- quit: I440r-wrk ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 15:13:42 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:14:03 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 15:30:02 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:30:39 --- join: x0nfscked (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 15:31:27 --- quit: x0nfscked (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:37:22 --- quit: Robert (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:37:22 --- quit: njd (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:37:23 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:37:23 --- quit: onetom (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:37:23 --- quit: ChanServ (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:37:23 --- quit: ez4 (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:37:23 --- quit: SDO (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:37:23 --- quit: skylan (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:37:24 --- quit: ianP (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:37:24 --- quit: rO| (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:44:27 --- quit: Klaw (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:44:27 --- quit: rpc (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:44:27 --- quit: gilbertdeb (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:54:28 --- quit: kc5tja (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 16:28:33 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: gilbertdeb (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-37.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: ez4 (~ez4@pcp01518726pcs.reding01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: ianP (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: SDO (~SDO@co-trinidad1a-42.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h31n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: rO| (~rO|@pD9EE1EC6.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4829.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: njd (~melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: Klaw (~anonymous@ip68-4-157-105.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: rpc (~rpc@npa.nxx.us) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 16:28:33 --- mode: orwell.freenode.net set +oo kc5tja ChanServ 16:28:34 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:28:34 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:28:35 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:28:36 y0 16:28:36 whats up?? 16:28:36 any news from chuck? 16:28:36 any other news in forth world? 16:28:36 yeah, there is fig-forth irc meeting at 9pm on saturday 16:28:36 IG UK hosts IRC sessions on the first Saturday of the month. on channel #figuk using the IRC server called "IRCNet". Sessions start at 9:00pm UK time and are open to everyone. 16:28:36 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:28:36 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:28:36 arke, whats causing the hiccups? 16:28:36 is it adelphia? 16:28:36 yes, once again. 16:28:36 gilbertdeb: are you familiar with pygmy? 16:28:36 pygmy forth? 16:28:36 yeah 16:28:36 nope 16:28:36 ok 16:28:37 --- quit: fridge ("http://lice.codehack.com") 16:32:38 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:32:38 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:40:39 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-164-231.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 16:40:39 y0 16:40:39 hey 16:40:39 fridge: know pygmy? 16:40:40 I have heard of it 16:40:40 but I know nothing about it 16:40:40 arke, whats the question exactly? 16:40:40 grr. 16:40:40 trying to find out if its cool or not? 16:40:40 gilbertdeb: if and for are defined (i know it for a fact), but i can't use them 16:40:40 see if 16:40:40 see for 16:40:40 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-37.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:40:40 see in pygmy is only for deferred words 16:40:40 --- quit: gilbertdeb (Nick collision from services.) 16:40:40 --- nick: gilbertbsd -> gilbertdeb 16:40:41 write your own if/for 16:40:41 gilbertdeb: er, wait ... i just kinda figured out that for some reason, if only works inside words 16:40:41 which does sorta make sense :) 16:40:41 yeah it works inside : ;s 16:42:41 : 16:42:41 :) 16:42:42 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:42:42 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:42:42 --- nick: rk -> arke 16:42:42 how does for/next work again? 16:42:42 argh 16:42:42 --- quit: arke (Nick collision from services.) 16:42:42 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:44:44 arke: I know Pygmy, and I explained why you cannot "use" if and for yesterday. 16:44:44 They can only be used inside a :-definition. 16:44:44 I really think with a few more cryptic definitions, forth would look just as nice as k 16:46:02 PygmyForth has two vocabularies: Forth (which is visible to the interpretter and compiler) and Compiler (which is visible ONLY to the compiler, and serves as a simpler replacement for immediate words) 16:46:02 * kc5tja thinks he's going to get into the electronics kit market for a source of income. 16:50:45 kc5tja: i didnt receive that tho (even tho it seemed like i was online) 16:50:45 arke: ?? That sucks. I remember going into it somewhat. I thought you got it. :( 16:50:45 kc5tja: im sorry :( 16:50:45 kc5tja: i figured it out tho on myself :) 16:50:45 Cool -- that's the best way, I think. :D 16:50:45 kc5tja: anyway, doing homework right now, so im not coding. 16:50:45 I should be doing homework too, but I'll get to that later tonight. 16:50:45 keep talking people, i like reading irc posts while doing boring chemistry work :) 16:50:45 Right now, I'm too busy figuring out how to crack into the electronics kit markets. 16:50:46 :) 16:50:46 i like the pygmy editor 16:50:46 The first couple of product offerings probably won't be computer-driven, actually, just for cost reasons. 16:50:46 and, i like the block system 16:50:46 But I'll see. 16:50:46 arke: Yes, blocks rock. 16:50:46 :) 16:50:46 block rocking beats 16:50:46 I wrote the VIBE (VI-inspired Block Editor, formerly the VI-like Block Editor) specifically because GForth under LInux didn't have a block editor. 16:50:46 the chemical brothers were big fans of forth ;) 16:50:46 Who are the Chemical Brothers? 16:50:46 musicians 16:50:46 fridge, how the hell do you know? 16:50:46 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:00:46 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 17:00:46 gilbertdeb: why else would they have called the song block rocking beats 17:00:46 Ah. 17:00:46 :D 17:00:46 my xon suxxx0rz 17:00:46 anyway 17:00:46 I was being silly, I guess that means its bedtime 17:00:46 whats new? 17:00:46 Heheh 17:00:46 My food almost burnt. >:( Damn instructions! 17:00:46 You follow them to a tee, and what happens? "They FUCK you at the DRIVE-THRU!" -- chris rock 17:00:46 hahaha 17:00:46 That'll teach me to ever follow the instructions on a package of food again. 17:00:47 kc5tja, I just heard of a very forthy application being done in perl. 17:00:47 gas pump controllers via a touch screen. 17:00:47 Oh man, I wonder how long those touch-screens will last. 17:00:47 those things are pretty $$$ aren't they? 17:00:47 --- join: rO|_ (~rO|@pD9EE162E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 17:00:47 they're doing it via a web interface so they're using CGI 17:28:49 I don't think they're pricy -- it's just that they're damn fragile. 17:28:49 --- quit: rO| (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:28:49 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:28:49 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 17:38:52 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:38:52 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 17:44:55 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:44:55 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:08:57 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:08:57 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:08:57 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:08:58 --- quit: fridge ("http://lice.codehack.com") 18:10:10 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-37.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:10:10 --- quit: gilbertdeb (Nick collision from services.) 18:10:10 --- nick: gilbertbsd -> gilbertdeb 18:10:59 Hi there. 18:10:59 aloha 18:12:23 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:12:23 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:12:23 * gilbertdeb staples rk to the floor 18:17:25 --- join: skylan (sjh@nwc57-141.nwconx.net) joined #forth 18:23:26 gilbertdeb: lol 18:23:27 --- nick: rk -> arke 18:23:27 arke, why does that keep happening? 18:23:27 i dont know. really 18:23:27 do you have a router? 18:23:27 er i dunno 18:23:27 is the cable modem directly connected to your computer? 18:27:27 or is it connected to a little box with several leds? 18:27:27 neither 18:27:27 Little box with several LEDs, via Ethernet. 18:27:27 its connected to my dads server, from which it is distributed to about 4 other computers 18:27:27 so no router (what was i thinkinh? lol) 18:27:27 ah your dad's box serves as the router then. 18:27:27 is his box a *nix box? 18:27:27 well, first, it was win2k, then linux, and now its win2k3 :( 18:27:28 ask win2k3 what the hell it is doing... 18:33:29 why did you switch from linux? 18:33:29 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:33:29 My word. 18:33:29 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:33:29 see what I'm talking about? ;) 18:33:29 ssh into his box and view the logs 18:33:29 --- quit: ez4 () 18:33:29 naah. i have no access to it ... he thinks i could screw something up 18:33:29 explain to him that you MIGHT fix things ;) 18:33:29 prepare a proposal and demo how. 18:33:29 also it is easier to apologise than to get permission :P 18:45:30 heh 18:55:30 i dont need to apologize, honestly 18:55:30 and also, he could fix it much better than me. it really is not his fault 18:55:30 --- quit: arke (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:55:30 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:55:30 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-164-231.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 18:55:30 --- nick: rk -> arke 18:55:31 --- part: gilbertdeb left #forth 19:00:25 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba59e3.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 19:12:54 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:12:54 'evening 19:12:54 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 19:12:54 been starting to do a few tiny benchmarks on the code my compiler generates. as far it is about thrice the speed of gforth. 19:12:54 no/hardly any code optimizations done as far 19:18:56 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:18:56 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 19:30:41 does gforth have code optimizations? 19:30:41 it does have some, but no idea to what extend 19:33:09 gforth's console output is quicker though 19:33:09 about 25% 19:33:09 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:33:09 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 19:33:09 i output a string by repeatingly syscalling single-char out 19:33:09 that may make the difference 19:43:10 That makes a HUGE difference actually. 19:43:10 Linux I/O overhead is immense, so the more data per system call you can pump out, the better. 19:43:10 *g* 19:43:10 allows me to have a single output word for now 19:43:10 * kc5tja nods 19:43:10 made the number output mainly for testing and debugging purposes 19:45:11 actually expected it to be slower 19:45:11 got an idea for the *duck* second pass 19:45:11 kc5tja: you're writing compiler too, maybe you can use it 19:45:11 I don't use a dual-pass compiler though. But what's the idea? 19:45:11 well, the second pass is optional, not required 19:45:11 first pass can generate working code already 19:45:11 * kc5tja nods 19:45:11 library inclusion happens after compilation of main program 19:45:11 so that just required code is compiled into the program 19:45:11 that is, fwd refs 19:45:11 when the ref is created, it is unknown how far away the call target is 19:45:11 so i compile for worst case 19:45:11 if second pass would be used, it only takes the fwd refs from the symbol table 19:45:11 (the library-resolved words) 19:45:11 On x86, there is only one call case -- 16 or 32-bit, depending on CPU operating mode. 19:45:11 and compiles them first 19:45:11 i got 1 byte and 4 byte branches 19:45:11 branches, yes. But subroutine calls are fixed in size. 19:45:11 also may consider to load short offset into register, and call register 19:45:11 May produce smaller code, but it'll also be slower. 19:49:47 hmm.. 5 versus 6 bytes 19:49:47 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:49:47 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 19:49:47 for both 8- and 16bit offsets 19:51:47 maybe not worth it. 19:53:07 except for replaceing the last in a word against a branch 19:53:07 last call 20:01:03 but well, at the current point, optimization is not an issue 20:02:20 i do a tiny bit, like compiling multiple inc reg instead of add reg,32 for small increments and the like 20:09:05 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:09:05 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 20:21:07 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 20:21:07 XeF4: y0 20:21:07 .. 20:21:07 XeF4: yes, im having the same probs on freenode too 20:21:07 any word on the Chuck visit time? 20:21:07 nope. 20:21:07 well, not that i know of, anyway 20:21:08 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:23:08 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 20:35:35 * kc5tja is away: Homework 20:37:29 --- quit: arke (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 20:38:11 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 20:50:25 --- part: Speuler left #forth 20:58:25 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:58:25 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 21:07:30 is gforth still being developed? 21:13:31 --- quit: arke (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:13:31 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 21:23:33 fridge: it is 21:23:33 Yes; 0.6.2 was released relatively recently. 21:23:33 Anton Ertl and others are maintaining it. 21:23:33 Gahh...back to homework... :*( 21:27:34 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:27:34 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 21:45:58 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:45:58 --- quit: Klaw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:45:58 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 21:57:06 --- quit: rk ("y0 im4 l34v3") 22:17:27 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:17:27 re ! 22:29:11 --- join: arke (~arke@adsl-68-22-251-173.dsl.chmpil.ameritech.net) joined #forth 22:29:11 y- 22:29:12 t0 22:35:12 anybody here? 22:35:12 --- quit: arke ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!") 22:53:36 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 22:59:44 --- nick: rO|_ -> rO| 23:17:36 * kc5tja is back (gone 02:41:36) 23:30:49 OK, I'm going to bed. 23:30:49 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.09.29