00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.09.27 00:00:12 I440r I beg to differ 00:00:18 But in environments where no human can understand more than a fraction of a percent of what is there .... 00:00:18 thats exactly it jef, how can you possibly debug code you cant predict or match with your sources 00:00:31 oh - yea!! you debug your cources!!! 00:00:35 lol - silly me 00:00:58 I have succesfully formally derived many tricky algorithms that I would have spent longer coding and debugging if I had thought operationally 00:01:05 I asked Cygnal if they could instead of doing source level debog could they make their disassembly windows give a sumbolic disassembly 00:01:15 they asked me what a symbolic disassembly was 00:01:17 :/ 00:01:22 What I object to are claims of optimization that simply avoid the actual details of where the bottlenecks are. 00:02:00 the compiler has tunnel vision, it can only optimize those things it is made aware of. 00:02:12 YOU on the other hand can THINK about youru code and make it even MORE optimum 00:02:23 however, people want to be relived of THAT responsability too 00:02:23 I enjoyed following a link Anton posted to GNU bugs at bugzilla, particularly the ones under the catagories of compile-time-hogs and memory-hogs. 00:02:45 People claim that these things are instantaneous but check out the compile-time-hog bugs... 00:02:54 but can you do strength reduction of modulo operations, and have readable code? 00:02:59 lol i like to say that if the linux kernel were coded in isforht it would compile in 3 seconds on most boxes :) 00:03:15 And the bugs such as 'not handling stack frames larger than 2GB properly' are very funny to me. ;-) 00:03:21 it would probably be 100 times smaller and 100 times more readable too 00:03:30 lol 00:03:36 fucking morons 00:03:41 you can quote me on that one 00:04:03 but then it probably wouldn't be anything like a linux kernel 00:04:12 the whole fucking industry is FULL of "fucking morons 00:04:23 colorforth on a USB bootable flash drive will be interesting, and faster than a floppy.. ;-) 00:04:25 and? - your point is ??? hehe 00:04:32 I440r_: i see no postings on clf by you... 00:04:34 One reason I like forth that I dont see mentioned is that I can think visually about my programs, something which the human brain is suited to 00:05:05 im a very visual problem solver, i used to solve the rubics cube with no more than 3 looks at it 00:05:10 I like forth because I played with lego as a child 00:05:56 the clothing industry is style driven, the auto industry is style driven, so is the consumer computer industry. They create the demand and people 'buy' into it. 00:06:39 yea. microsoft sells everyone a crock of shit and they buy into it hool line and sinker because it has nice looking gizmoze on the desktop 00:06:42 http://humane.sourceforge.net/the/matrix.html ;-) 00:07:00 and a snazzy glowing red pointing device 00:07:45 nothing wrong with being nice looking 00:08:49 there is when its at the detriment of other more important things 00:09:08 im bookmarking that page :) 00:09:14 Why does every one who debates computing issues consider only utilitarian criteria valid, when they wouldnt for cars, houses, etc. 00:09:29 fridge: yes 00:09:33 stability, reliability, transparency... lots of other words that end in y 00:10:09 I once wrote an essay labeled 4thlego.htm at my site. Forth, the Lego of programming languages... 00:10:46 yea i thunked that was you who wrote that :) heh 00:10:59 lol 00:11:04 forth.. lots of words that end in Y 00:11:25 or for the c coders... 00:11:36 forth, lots of words that end in "WHY?" 00:13:58 (yasam) style has it's place. I don't think everyone should have to drive VW bugs or Travis. But I am old enough to remember the days of 'conspicuous consumption' and it is kind of sad to see that mentality being sucessfully marketed again. 00:14:15 foxchip: yeah, that particular essay struck a cord with me ;) 00:14:17 That applies to cars, computers, houses etc. 00:14:34 chord rather 00:15:35 well i realy should go zzz, its teh company picnic tomorrow and i dun wanna miss it :) 00:15:40 The thing that is easy with computers it to make things complicated. The thing that is hard is to make things simple. 00:15:43 VW's are stylish! :) 00:15:47 might be some cutensexy chix there :) 00:16:03 they have character 00:16:09 as does my 65 stang 00:16:11 foxchip: that is indeed the thing 00:16:19 They had a used Yugo in a lot near my house. I swear the interior was made of cardboard. ;-) 00:16:29 todays cars are either japanese bubble car or wedge of cheese or a mix of both 00:17:06 dont get me started on American cars... 00:17:10 heh rush limbaugh rags on yugo owners heh 00:17:33 Did anyone see the 'dateline' where they interviewed the 'car shrink'? 00:17:50 lol no 00:18:10 This guy got millions from Detroit for tuning their car marketing strategies. He got into the consumers heads. 00:18:33 He said the main thing is to 'bypass the thinking part of the brain and go directly for the reptile stem.' 00:18:50 hrm ... i like slrn 00:19:02 Bigger is better to reptiles. He told them that if they could put a machine gun turret on top of the SUV that they could sell more. ;-) 00:19:22 i watched a program in england once on inventions. the guy was describing the inventing process and was giving a bad invention as an example.... 00:19:48 Don't tell them that bigger more expensive vehicles are actually more dangerous for the occupants and for everyone else. 00:19:49 You know those complicated tread patterns on tires, one would think they were scientifically designed, well no, the marketing department decides if they are exy enough or masculine enough, etc. 00:19:58 as a cyclist, SUV's are my arch nemesis =( 00:20:10 you have a bus that gives each passenger its own stearing wheel. if more people want to turn left than want to turn right the bus turns left. however you can increase the priority of YOUR stearing whell by pumping money into a slot. 00:20:18 Don't tell them that they get terrible milage and have high service fees. Appeal to the most primitive part of the brain. 00:20:22 And it works! 00:20:40 i think the people who designed ANS forth came up with something along those lines 00:21:06 its always weenies who drive big SUVs too 00:21:13 suv's are THE safest vehicvles on the road 00:21:23 for whom? 00:21:24 like my boss 00:21:29 whoops, I didn't say that 00:21:31 ANS Forth was designed to make Forth more marketable. Simple=bad complex=good reliance on vendors=ideal 00:21:32 i would rather be in an suv than almost any otehr vehicle 00:21:45 im VERY interested in my own self preservation 00:21:49 which is why i also carryb a gun 00:21:57 but I wouldnt want to be hit by you 00:22:01 lol 00:22:18 i think i just said almost the same thing but in a more arty way heh 00:22:20 I440r_: you'd need a tank in that case 00:22:26 anyway /me goes zzz :) 00:22:46 fridge thers a point of diminishing returns :P 00:23:23 you can legally drive tanks on the road in england :) 00:23:23 or rather diminishing parking spaces :P 00:23:55 a couple of decades ago I used to joke with my sister. I said I can understand that if you live in LA the main problem with vehicles is pollution, since the whole region is flat and completely covered with cement it just makes sense that people 'need' huge 4 wheel drive gas guzzling utility vehicles to get from point a to point b. 00:25:27 With all the snow, and mountains, and lack of paved roads people 'need' those 4wd gas guzzling polution machines! 00:25:56 I440r_: whats your usenet name? thres nobody called mark manning.. 00:26:11 The marketing people know how to appeal to the reptile portion of mamal's brains. And it works! 00:27:02 have you noticed the trend in marketing to advertise your products weakest point as if it was good in that point? 00:27:21 You make it into a joke... 00:27:56 no you just say that your product excels in that point without really saying it 00:28:05 and people fall for it 00:28:14 plain lying 00:28:16 there is when i post heh 00:28:36 I440r_: oh, so you just havent posted in a while? :) 00:28:39 Those Damn Porsche Carerra getting in the way of my SUV hauling a trailer through the mountains again and slowing me down! 00:29:10 Then when you drive on I5 you really see people breaking 100 in the SUV and weaving all over the road. ;-) 00:30:07 Candy salesman: Candy tastes good! 00:30:36 Doctor: Candy can rot your teeth, give you diabetes, and kill you. 00:30:56 Consumer: (Doctor) Why to you say such terrible things? 00:31:15 Candy salesman: The important thing is that candy tastes good! 00:31:30 Consumer: Thank you for reminding us of what is important. 00:31:41 (That is my take on c.l.f ;-) 00:31:51 lol 00:31:52 hehehe 00:31:57 ok i am REALY gone now :) 00:32:11 me too cya 00:32:15 --- nick: I440r_ -> I440r-zzz 00:32:23 --- quit: yasam () 00:32:29 good night, I think I will be going too. I want to watch the end of 'Throne of Blood' ;-) 00:32:44 * arke is away: sleep 00:32:54 --- quit: foxchip () 00:32:55 haha, everybodys going to bed :) 00:54:24 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD9548A49.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 00:59:52 jim i messaged you :) 01:13:22 --- quit: kc5tja_ ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 01:39:43 --- join: LOOP-HOG (TofuMonste@207.191.240.130) joined #forth 01:41:49 --- quit: LOOP-HOG (Client Quit) 03:29:17 --- quit: SDO (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:46:49 ping #forth 03:47:19 hello everybody 03:48:02 hey 03:49:18 * rO| is looking for an opteron debugger board 03:49:38 haven't found *anything* yet :( 03:50:20 I'm not sure what a debugger board is, is it like a dev kit? 03:50:32 is this entirely possible, that there's no board at all available? 03:51:34 fridge: i would say yes. i mean an in-circuit-emulator(hw) 04:38:29 --- join: crc (~crc@AC86BBC2.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 04:51:03 --- quit: crc ("I was using TinyIRC! Visit http://www.tinyirc.net/ for more information.") 04:51:19 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-187-43.dsl.phnet.fi) joined #forth 04:51:50 moi 06:00:46 Hey mur 06:10:19 Simics simulates processors at the instruction-set 06:10:20 level, including the full supervisor state. Currently, 06:10:20 Simics supports models for UltraSparc, Alpha, x86, 06:10:20 x86-64 (Hammer), PowerPC, IPF (Itanium), MIPS, 06:10:20 and ARM. Simics is pure software, and current ports 06:10:20 include Linux (x86, PowerPC, and Alpha), Solaris/ 06:10:22 UltraSparc, Tru64/Alpha, and Windows 2000/x86. 06:11:53 currently the only thing i found to look 'under' the sledgehammer 06:13:12 --- join: Ignatius (~lorenzo@APuteaux-105-1-4-227.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr) joined #forth 06:14:49 bonjour 06:19:46 Hi there. 06:20:10 An x86 (Pentium II) machine running Red Hat 06:20:13 6.2 and a KDE desktop (large window in the 06:20:13 center), showing two Netscape sessions connected 06:20:13 to actual, live Web servers; 06:20:13 A second x86 machine (top right) showing the 06:20:13 Windows NT login screen; 06:20:15 An UltraSparc II machine running Solaris 8 06:20:16 and MySQL (middle left); 06:20:18 A Simics command line for an UltraSparc III 06:20:20 model before powering on (bottom left); 06:20:22 An IPF (Itanium) model running Red Hat 7.2 06:20:24 (top left); 06:20:26 A PowerPC machine running VxWorks (top 06:20:30 center); and 06:20:32 An x86-64 (Hammer) machine running 06:20:34 Windows XP (the simulated processor is running 06:20:36 in 32-bit legacy mode), in the bottom 06:20:38 right window. 06:20:40 The window in the bottom-left corner of 06:20:42 Figure 1 shows the Simics command line. All other 06:20:44 Simics command windows are hidden. The screen 06:20:46 shot is taken from a dual-processor 933-MHz 06:20:48 Pentium III system with 512 Mbytes of memory, 06:20:50 running Red Hat Linux 7.2. All the Simics processes 06:21:03 are running on that same system. 06:23:59 *excuse moi* 06:24:20 really had to tell you this, i think it's amazing :-) 06:25:41 salut, what are you talking about ? 06:29:06 well, i tried to justify my channelflooding ;-) 06:31:01 i'm looking for an opteron debugger board but haven't found anything yet... 06:45:03 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:45:29 For example, SuSE has ported Linux to AMDs x86-64 architecture using the Hammer version of Simics, and Wasabi Systems has ported NetBSD in the same manner. 06:48:19 suse is the only linux atm which is running on amd 64bit mode *at production quality* 06:49:26 see "linux box of the year" eg. 06:49:34 hi tathi 06:54:13 ok 06:56:34 hi rO| :) 06:57:32 --- quit: Ignatius ("Client exiting") 07:02:06 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 08:01:30 --- join: gilbertdeb (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-37.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 08:05:05 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-37.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 08:06:28 --- quit: gilbertbsd (Client Quit) 08:21:21 --- quit: gilbertdeb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:33:31 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81555.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 08:36:52 wossname 08:37:29 greet 08:39:06 I'm Forthing a Forth! How are you doing? 08:39:24 i'm Wasting a Life! so i guess i'm fine :) 08:39:36 c00l 08:39:46 What exactly are you wasting it at? 08:40:24 well, surfing and such. i slept for most of yesterday 08:40:28 no code :(( 08:51:03 Robertsome 08:51:50 * rO| is playing w/ crc's javascriptforth atm 08:52:04 http://retro.tunes.org/JSForth.html 08:54:48 wossname: I just mailed Justin Reedy :) 08:54:55 wossname: Had any contact with him lately? 08:57:07 Justin Reedy? 08:57:20 i don't know any handle going by that name 08:57:21 ;d 08:59:04 Hmmm. 08:59:04 . 08:59:09 He used to be on IRC alot 08:59:14 From Australia 08:59:17 Pretty young. 08:59:28 www.justinreedy.com 08:59:45 Helped some with Primula, I thinkl 08:59:47 think 09:00:10 his webpage is devoid of content 09:00:26 Check his picture. 09:00:33 Maybe you remember that one. 09:00:45 http://www.justinreedy.com/images/me/DCP00705.JPG 09:01:17 i remember the picture, but i still don't remember his handle. he hasn' 09:01:24 he hasn't been in forever,yes 09:01:42 Right., 09:01:54 But well, I'll of course ask him to return if he replies to my mail :P 09:02:48 ;l 09:04:43 Hmm... 09:05:03 I've been doing very little too, heh. 09:05:10 But I did write some code. 09:05:26 It's like, if I don't code, I read, if I don't read, I code. 09:05:34 And sometimes I do nothing at all 09:06:46 sleep, wank 09:06:48 eat 09:06:53 Heh, kinda. 09:07:00 i read, but i haven't been able to code 09:07:15 Great. 09:07:51 You're welcome to join the justice debate of me and ctkrohn btw :P If you're bored enough... 09:07:56 justice debate? 09:08:05 http://robert.zizi.org/misc.html 09:08:51 It's better than a flamewar on IRC, at least it looks more productive ;) 09:11:08 ah, you believe talent should only be rewarded if it's developed 09:11:26 so a retarded accountant should be paid more than an ordinary accountant if they have the same ability 09:12:29 i'll write a short essay :) 09:13:31 --- quit: I440r-zzz (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:16:51 wossname: ...? 09:17:36 Not really, they should be paid about the same. 09:18:55 you said a basketball player should not be rewarded for any exceptional luck he might have had in the genetic lottery 09:19:06 Yes? 09:19:21 so a retard should not be demerited for his bad luck in the genetic lottery 09:19:57 however, taking both ideas into a system, one of exceptional genetics and one of remarkably bad genetics having the same ability in a single field should be paid differently for what they do 09:19:58 Not really. If he CAN do a meaningful job, he should do it, and get a decent salary. 09:20:39 you state that it's not morally incorrect to reward hard work, but it is morally incorrect to reward good genetics 09:21:33 wossname: But then again, if a high-IQ person and a retard both decide to become cleaners (however likely that is..), the super-smart person is obviously searching something below his capabilities, while the retard (who maybe even shouldn't have to work, because it's to ask too much from him) is doing something ABOVE his capabilities. 09:22:26 that might be true, but you haven't brought the idea of reward into that statement 09:22:36 I'll explain more later 09:22:36 food 09:22:42 I can write another article. 09:22:45 as a reply to yoursa 09:22:49 ok 09:23:36 Hrm 09:23:42 I can be here for a few more minutes. 09:23:58 i'm fooding at the computer ;) 09:24:23 My way of thinking somehow assumes that people work with what their capabilities allow. 09:24:36 Like, how many programmers would suddenly decide to clean toilets instead? 09:24:52 i'm sure quite a few smart but lazy people become garbage men and the like 09:24:59 Right. 09:25:03 If they do want to so, they shouldn't exactly be punished... 09:25:36 that's right. reward should be based on merit, merit being measured by what you produce, or the average difficulty of your service 09:25:52 And in fact, if they work very hard as garbage men (and we assume that it is a "dangerous" job, dealing with machines and waste), while being sloppy programmers, they should even be rewarded more for that job. 09:26:21 more for that job than they would crunching code? it all depends 09:26:43 But what I do NOT agree with is that programming should be rewarded much much higher than the waste shipping. 09:26:50 Because there is simply no reason for that. 09:26:52 i recently came up with a cohesive picture of economics in my head 09:26:58 Yes? 09:27:07 i'll write it up. i'll cover the example of waste shipping vs programming 09:27:36 OK :) 09:27:54 If you're done today, I'll write an answer and publish both on my page. 09:27:59 both essays 09:28:55 i'm going out, but i'll write it tonight and post it tomorrow afternoon 09:29:26 I.e. sunday night for me :P 09:29:32 Ah, well.. 09:29:39 That's OK too. 09:29:45 I'll write about something else until thenm 09:29:47 or code ;) 09:29:54 Writing a Forth again.. 09:30:05 so many forths 09:30:14 so many repeats of the same old project. refining 09:30:47 Yes, yes.. 09:30:54 But this one's a 32-bit stand-alone one. 09:31:01 Used for a school project. 09:31:09 therefore, with purpose 09:31:11 So I might put some extra effort in it. 09:31:34 So that I code more than I carry garbage. 09:32:09 :) 09:50:29 --- quit: wossname ("wtfcul8rd00dbbq") 09:51:47 --- quit: arke (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 09:52:04 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:50:16 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:29:41 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 11:30:05 --- join: schihei (~schihei@pD9E5C7AE.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 11:33:45 Herkamire: which one would be suited to test your ppc forth? 11:33:59 Virtutech Simics IBM PowerPC 405GP Simulator 11:33:59 Virtutech Simics IBM PowerPC 750 Simulator 11:33:59 Virtutech Simics Motorola PowerPC 7450 Simulator 11:34:41 I don't know what the first one is 11:34:48 the others will probably work if you can run linux in them 11:38:57 When I make it boot, I'm only planning on making it work on Apple hardware. 11:39:08 (which to my knowledge there is no emulator for) 11:40:44 7450 is most likely I would guess. 11:41:27 ok i let you know then 11:41:44 --- quit: schihei (Client Quit) 12:04:07 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 12:05:39 y0 12:05:41 anything new bout chuck? 12:58:42 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:34:41 --- join: forth (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-37.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 13:34:42 :D 13:35:07 I can't believe no one else had it :D 13:35:40 --- part: forth left #forth 13:52:48 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@pc47dn1d.ppp.FCC.NET) joined #forth 13:52:48 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 13:52:52 hiya all 13:54:40 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 13:54:41 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 13:55:16 hiya kc5tja 13:55:28 re 13:55:47 * kc5tja needs to get a job somehow. 13:55:52 Quick, somebody hire me! 13:57:03 hmm...in Calif.? can't help you :/ 13:57:20 Yeah. I'm in California. 13:57:26 Still haven't heard back from In-n-Out. :/ 13:57:46 what happened to your little startup? 13:58:05 I still have it, but it's not generating customers. 13:58:14 And I'm running out of cash fast. 13:58:30 The industry is just way too packed. 13:59:30 ah...that sucks 13:59:53 I need to start making something that people will want to buy, or sell a service that does the same. 14:00:02 I can't figure out what such a service would be like though. 14:00:46 yeah, the service angle is the hard part....my mind is built for developing stuff, not for servicing...I suck at servicing 14:01:05 (except for very techy servicing, of course) 14:01:20 Yeah, and nobody is going that route. 14:01:39 Ah well, I would prefer to switch to a product-based business anyway. It's MUCH easier to keep track of money that way. 14:01:43 Things are more tangible. 14:01:58 * TheBlueWizard nods, and notes the tech support is already dumbed down 14:22:37 AFK; doing some stuff with my roommate 14:22:48 * kc5tja is away: Helping to record roommate's band 15:08:10 --- join: crc (~crc@AC8C2086.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 15:16:43 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 15:20:18 hiya crc 15:20:21 hiya arke 15:20:36 terve arke 15:20:42 arke's learnt terve already ;) 15:21:05 Hello tbw 15:22:06 what's up tbw? 15:24:36 chatting with a buddy online (another channel) 15:25:19 time to play :) 15:25:59 ok 15:27:54 * TheBlueWizard translates that to "kertaa leikkiä" 15:28:52 ups 15:29:00 kertaa = repeat 15:29:07 or times 15:29:26 aikaa leikkia = [i have/ there is] time to play 15:29:33 aika leikkia = it's time to play 15:30:26 hmm...ok thanks for tyhe correction 15:33:06 Hi 15:33:11 hi Robert 15:33:19 well, have to go now...bye all 15:33:28 cya 15:33:45 bye mur :) 15:33:52 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 15:38:09 --- quit: arke (Success) 15:45:26 --- quit: crc ("I was using TinyIRC! Visit http://www.tinyirc.net/ for more information.") 15:54:46 --- join: LOOP-HOG (TofuMonste@207.191.240.145) joined #forth 15:58:14 hi 16:01:17 i worked on my bike today, changed the break pads, no big whoop 16:10:25 :) 16:10:35 do you use bike to get to school/work? 16:21:03 --- quit: njd (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 16:26:59 --- quit: mur ("Murr.") 16:27:25 i was away from my set 16:34:06 --- quit: LOOP-HOG () 16:58:00 --- join: rO|_ (~rO|@pD9545411.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 17:05:19 --- quit: rO| (Nick collision from services.) 17:05:32 --- join: ez4 (~ez4@pcp01518726pcs.reding01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 17:05:38 --- nick: rO|_ -> rO| 17:26:54 --- join: njd (~melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 17:38:10 * kc5tja is back (gone 03:15:21) 17:45:11 --- quit: ez4 () 18:10:34 --- quit: fridge ("http://lice.codehack.com") 18:18:49 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:23:17 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-164-231.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 18:30:00 --- quit: fridge (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:30:00 --- quit: Robert (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:30:00 --- quit: ianP (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:31:21 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h31n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 18:36:37 --- join: _arke_ (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:36:47 --- quit: arke (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:42:46 --- quit: _arke_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 18:44:03 --- join: _arke_ (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:57:46 --- quit: _arke_ (Connection reset by peer) 18:59:00 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:59:34 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 19:26:01 --- quit: njd ("Leaving") 19:29:53 Man, where'd everybody go? 19:31:17 Hm.. 19:31:31 To bed? After all, it's 4:30 here. 19:32:29 There's usually a lot more people in this channel this time of night than there are now. 19:32:32 But, whatever. 19:33:25 * Robert should go to bed, soon. 19:40:30 Okies 19:40:44 I'll probably go in four hours, myself. 19:43:29 My Forth needs some attention, I can't just let it down. ;) 19:43:37 Heheh :) 19:43:51 My income statement needs some attention. :) 19:43:57 brb -- food 19:44:02 (as in, cooking) 19:44:51 See you 20:15:22 --- join: _arke_ (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 20:31:08 back 21:02:28 <_arke_> y0 21:02:43 <_arke_> whats up? 21:02:43 --- nick: _arke_ -> arke 21:02:47 I'm leaving to drive accross the country tomorrow 21:03:05 fuun :) 21:05:12 Herkamire: Where to? 21:05:43 washington and california 21:05:55 by way of grand canyon and yellowstone 21:08:14 I have family in washington, and I want to go to the Hoh rainforest again 21:08:22 (and take my girlfriend who hasn't been 21:08:27 --- join: SDO (~SDO@co-trinidad1a-42.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 21:09:00 I haven't been anywhere in the central or western states except michigan and washington 21:09:19 I'm excited! 21:12:02 we're all set to be gone for a month 21:22:49 --- join: suprdupr (CrowKilr@Ottawa-HSE-ppp3654261.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 21:22:53 heyhey 21:23:48 I got something new running in my head about sweet ol' forth 21:26:24 compiled calls' adresses are pushed on the data stack after a zero, the red word compiles pushes with the addresses on stack until he hits zero, converts the last compiled one to a jump or execute default behavior when theres no calls to compile: compile a ret 21:26:52 instead of having many ; I use an optionnal ... prefix 21:27:07 red words always start a line 21:27:38 so ... will always be visible and is simply a variant of red 21:30:49 --- quit: Herkamire ("bye all. see you in a month :)") 21:32:46 herky is gonna be gone for a month? 21:32:47 damn 21:32:50 :( 21:35:38 arke: do you have any projects, anything forth-related? 21:36:40 suprdupr: working on a DOS binary spitter on and off 21:36:58 spitter=compiler? 21:38:05 yup 21:38:23 its an interesting phrase i came up with ... i use it all the time now :) 21:39:13 forth compiler? are you interested in discussing about it? 21:39:38 * suprdupr is designing a forth compiler too 21:39:47 erm 21:39:48 s0re 21:40:00 basically, im having language issues here 21:40:16 ive considered asm, C, forth, SML, .... 21:41:07 i think i might go with C 21:41:12 but that might change :( 21:41:23 * suprdupr has 5 colors: red, yellow, green, magenta, white 21:41:46 words for my compiler are 1-16 bytes (characters) long 21:41:53 red words are definition 21:42:07 they embed : and ; in the same word, so less punctuation 21:42:23 ; and : of forth, that is. 21:42:45 yellow are macros, they are directly jumped at by the compiler's main decoding loop 21:43:01 green are meant to compile calls 21:43:32 so, its a colorforth type thing :) 21:43:40 magenta is a "binary citation" used to construct raw machine words (32 bytes long) 21:43:57 white is comment, skipped by compiler (used in red also) 21:43:58 yes 21:44:10 tokens are 8 bit in mine though 21:44:22 --- join: njd (~melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 21:44:24 and it uses ascii, to be readable in an hex viewer 21:45:10 --- quit: skylan (Connection timed out) 21:45:39 arke: do you know colorforth? AHA? 21:46:33 suprdupr: well, ive messed with it occasionally 21:47:07 what are your impressions? 21:47:54 usability is very poor, but the underlying system is great; code is really easy to understand, its a great source of inspiration 21:50:23 anyway i mixed colorforth and aha to get a small, easy to work with system, at least I think. 21:52:20 arke: do you know tinycc? 21:53:21 how far is it? 21:53:52 --- join: zardon (~uuter@ajhg40uqy57xe.bc.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 21:54:10 my project: the design phase is almost complete, im trying to come up with a novel compilation scheme using pushes and jumps only, no calls 21:57:18 "Test: word1 word2 word3" would compile to "push3 push2 push1 then "push3 push2 jmp1" using lookback optimization 21:57:45 on x86, push use absolute and jump relative addresses 21:58:35 I forgot this when programming optimizations on top of a call based compiler 21:59:04 interesting 21:59:48