00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.09.15
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05:26:42 <Grant_> :)
05:26:48 <Grant_> Where's Mr Marky Mark
05:53:18 <Robert> Not here!
05:53:32 <Robert> Do you mean I440r, the IsForth guy?
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07:24:43 <Speuler> i notice that most, if not all links, to the 25x forth processor, are broken, and there's pretty little data on those in the net
07:25:27 <Speuler> has any a good link to the 25x ?
07:25:37 <Speuler> anyone ..
07:25:57 <Speuler> batteries of my keyboard are running low
07:31:27 <TreyB> Try the wayback machine.
07:32:29 <Speuler> 111000 hits. 25x = wayback machine ??
07:33:20 <TreyB> http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://colorforth.com/
07:33:49 <Speuler> ah :)
07:34:15 <Speuler> We're sorry. Your request failed to connect to our servers. We may be experiencing technical difficulties
07:34:53 <TreyB> I can hit it just fine.
07:35:05 <Speuler> can you imagine a reason why 25x-data has disappeared ?
07:35:47 <TreyB> As I understand it, Chuck has a client with interest in developing it and they wanted the info removed.
07:36:12 <Speuler> "we'll make a product but we'll tell nobody about"
07:36:45 * TreyB has no more info.
07:37:29 <Speuler> thanks TreyB
07:38:12 <Speuler> i better save the page before it's taken out of wayback too
07:38:34 <Speuler> the Jan23 and Jun02 pages fail. the Feb05 page works
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13:08:35 <XeF4> i440 has work? congrats
13:20:07 <Robert> Hey
13:20:16 <Robert> In Texas, right?
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14:06:39 <I440r-wrk> yea
14:06:42 <I440r-wrk> and its Forth too!
14:06:48 <I440r-wrk> yes in TX
14:07:53 <XeF4> doing what? or can you talk about that?
14:08:08 <I440r-wrk> well its satelite tracking and stuff :)
14:09:34 <XeF4> nice
14:09:42 * XeF4 finally has a (somewhat unstable) net connection at home
14:09:47 <I440r-wrk> heh
14:29:35 * Grant_ slap I440r-wrk
14:29:41 <Grant_> <---- pyromaniac
14:29:53 <Grant_> anyway off to schoool. =)
14:30:45 <I440r-wrk> :)
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16:24:57 <arke> y0
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19:58:54 <arke> hey!
19:59:28 <arke> i think im'a ditch any loop contructs for my forth
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20:14:29 <Herkamire> arke: which constructs?
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20:16:43 <arke> Herkamire: like, do and stuff
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20:20:29 <Herkamire> arke: I don't much like DO.
20:21:08 <Herkamire> I much prefer for/next and an address register
20:40:35 <arke> Herkamire: well, there wont be for/next either
21:11:06 <Herkamire> arke: you're doing tail recursion then I hope?
21:11:17 <Herkamire> you've gotta have some sort of loop construct
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21:17:42 <arke> Herkamire: tail-recursion, yes.
21:17:48 <arke> Herkamire: its really easy, too
21:18:02 <arke> Herkamire: all recursive calls are demoted to a jmp
21:18:06 <arke> done, end of story :)
21:18:37 <I440r>   call xyzzy
21:18:38 <I440r>  ret
21:18:51 <I440r> convert all instances of the abiove to...
21:18:55 <I440r>   jmp xyzzy
21:19:45 <I440r> or in isforth you could add a goto in front of the last word in every : definition
21:20:01 <I440r> : foo x y z z y ; becones : foo x y z z goto y ;
21:22:26 <arke> I440r: heh
21:23:57 <I440r> i dont use it tho :)
21:24:14 <I440r> but it would prolly make application code a lil faster
21:24:26 <I440r> but you have to watch out, i dont think you can do...
21:24:36 <I440r> : foo 10 0 do i . goto loop ;
21:24:37 <I440r> lol
21:24:51 <I440r> someone who has isforth running test that for me :)
21:25:00 <I440r> i would be interested toi know and im not booted to linux :)
21:25:24 <njd> i will
21:30:01 <arke> hm
21:30:21 <arke> what if you have something like : blah 2 blah * ; ????
21:30:31 <arke> are there any optimizations to me made there?
21:31:23 <I440r> : blah 2 recurse * ;  
21:31:31 <I440r> but the * will never be executed
21:31:34 <I440r> you will stack crash :)
21:34:16 <I440r> : fib dup 1> if dup 1- recurse swap 2- recurse + then ;
21:34:31 <I440r> theres a recursive function but i say recursion sucks BIG TIME
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21:39:11 <Herkamire> arke: you should not demote all recursive calls. you should demote all calls that are followed by ;
21:39:56 <I440r> ?
21:40:17 <arke> yeah, you're right.\
21:40:35 <Herkamire> when compiling ; (semicolon) I just check if the last compiled instruction is call, and if so demote to a branch, (otherwise compile return)
21:40:46 <Herkamire> the only drawback is that there's problem with:   then ;
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21:41:05 <Herkamire> oops, I mean:   <any-word> then ;
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21:41:25 <arke> Herkamire: i was just about to say that
21:41:50 <Herkamire> I've decided that that's fine.
21:41:55 <arke> : blah 1 > if 1 - blah then ;
21:42:04 <Herkamire> right
21:42:05 <arke> or add an else
21:42:39 <Herkamire> so I write that:  : bla 2 <; 1 - bla ;
21:42:46 <arke> hm, should actually work the way i want it to since my tokenizer handles if as a kind of new word :)
21:43:01 <arke> Herkamire: hm?
21:43:24 <Herkamire> <; is like:  < if ; then
21:43:49 <Herkamire> I have >; =; 0; etc.
21:44:10 <arke> in {type, data, next}, an if ... else ... then is tokenized as
21:44:46 <arke> { IF, { .... }, { ELSE, { .... }, { .... } }
21:45:04 <arke> }
21:45:05 <arke> :)
21:45:34 <Herkamire> don't follow.
21:45:35 <arke> IF is compiled as a function
21:45:42 <Herkamire> what sort of tokenizing are you doing?
21:45:46 <arke> lets say you have
21:47:05 <arke> : blah 1 = if drop 1 else 1 - blah then ;
21:47:08 <arke> this is tokenized as
21:48:18 <arke> erm
21:48:22 <arke> nevermiund the tokenizing
21:48:26 <arke> bu
21:48:27 <arke> but
21:48:56 <Herkamire> what are you using the tokenized version for?
21:49:13 <arke> it does a call (not jump) to the if
21:49:26 <arke> or rather, the correct version of it
21:49:29 <arke> erm
21:49:29 <arke> wait
21:49:38 <arke> ignore me, for i am not thinking
21:49:47 <Herkamire> when you execute blah+
21:49:50 <arke> one second ... trying to remember how i figured this out
21:50:19 <Herkamire> are you for some reason trying to write a crazy parser and give forth a syntax?
21:50:40 <Herkamire> forth doesn't have syntax, except for being space seperated most of the time.
21:51:12 <arke> well, it does have some syntax here .... its a forth with some niceties :)
21:51:57 <Herkamire> here's your basic parser:    : parse word find if do
21:51:59 <Herkamire> oops
21:52:18 <Herkamire> here's your basic parser:    : parse word find if do-word else do-number-or-error then parse ;
21:52:47 <Herkamire> : do-word get-mode if execute else compile-call then ;
21:53:08 <arke> it jumps/passes through to the correct part of the if statement. if ; follows then, the ret statements are inserted directly into each if case, and then optimized
21:53:19 <Herkamire> do-number-or-error tries string-to-number conversion, and prints "word not found" if it encounters a non-digit.
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21:54:33 <Herkamire> arke: so you're compiling your if/then code in some other place in memory from your definition (blah)?
21:54:55 <arke> no, itll still be where blah is.
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21:55:22 <Herkamire> but then your "ret" instructions will branch back to just before the if/then block.
21:55:35 <arke> no they wont.
21:55:45 <arke> they jump, not call to the if :)
21:56:03 <Herkamire> then where do the rets take it?
21:56:40 <Herkamire> are you trying to parse the whole definition before you compile stuff?
21:56:43 <arke> back :)
21:56:56 <arke> Herkamire: thats kinda how it works, yeah
21:57:09 <Herkamire> how what works?
21:57:16 <Herkamire> I've never heard of a forth that works that way.
21:57:19 <arke> the PARSER!! lo
21:57:20 <arke> lol
21:57:29 <Herkamire> in fact I might go so far as to say that it would _not_ be a forth if it did.
21:57:33 <arke> well, im different, so is the forth
21:57:36 <Herkamire> forth by definition does not have syntax
21:57:49 <arke> well, this is a different forth :)
21:57:55 --- nick: njd__ -> njd
21:57:58 <Herkamire> sure is.
21:57:58 <arke> for example
21:58:15 <arke> : my-array ( dup * ) map ; 
21:58:15 <Herkamire> you were whining earlier that you sucked at making parsers, so I don't see why you're making this so difficult.
21:58:20 <arke> is perfectly valid
21:58:35 <Herkamire> what do the ( and ) words to?
21:58:36 <arke> Herkamire: because .... well .... i read some stuff, and talked to some people.
21:58:40 <arke> just don't ask.
21:58:42 <arke> :)
21:59:03 <arke> Herkamire: ( defines a new un-named word, and ) pushed the address on the stack
21:59:11 <arke> basically, lambda :)
21:59:30 <Herkamire> and what does map do?
21:59:57 <arke> ( a f -- , applies f to each item in a )
22:00:04 <arke> :)
22:00:33 <Herkamire> so what does my-array do?
22:01:06 <Herkamire> squares everything in an array you pass in?
22:01:25 <arke> no no no :)
22:01:38 <arke> my-array pushes the address of some list on the stack
22:01:50 <arke> i should have named it my-list, because it isnt actually an array
22:02:08 <Herkamire> I don't see any pushing. where/why does that happen?
22:02:22 <Herkamire> dup *   gives you the square
22:02:30 <Herkamire> 8 dup * .
22:02:44 <Herkamire> 64 OK
22:02:45 <arke> alright
22:03:04 <arke> cheese list [1, 2, 3]
22:03:25 <arke> : blah cheese ( dup * ) map ; 
22:03:31 <arke> so
22:03:43 <arke> cheese puts address of cheese list on stack
22:03:44 <Herkamire> [1, 4, 9]
22:04:13 <arke> ( dup * ) pushes address of a square word on the stack
22:04:20 <arke> map applies it to each element
22:04:22 <arke> then
22:04:30 <arke> cheese will be [2, 4, 6]
22:04:34 <arke> erm
22:04:37 <Herkamire> [1, 4, 9]
22:04:37 <arke> [1, 4, 9]
22:04:39 <arke> :)
22:04:59 <Herkamire> so... why did you say no to: < Herkamire> squares everything in an array you pass in?
22:05:22 <arke> <Herkamire> so what does my-array do?
22:05:25 <arke> :)
22:05:27 <arke> oh
22:05:28 <arke> oops
22:05:32 <arke> well
22:05:42 <arke> you were right, i forgot to gave the word a name
22:05:42 <arke> :)
22:05:48 <arke> sorry
22:05:53 <arke> im too tired
22:06:09 <Herkamire> I don't understand why you don't want to do it like this:
22:06:13 <Herkamire> : square dup * ;
22:06:31 <arke> i can.
22:06:35 <arke> if i want to
22:06:37 <Herkamire> : square-cheeze cheeze ' square map ;
22:06:54 <arke> :)
22:07:03 <arke> anyway, i's gotta sleep
22:07:05 <arke> night
22:07:14 <Herkamire> me too. goodnight
22:07:33 * arke is away: sl33p
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22:24:09 <Serg_Penguin> hi !!
22:24:20 <Serg_Penguin> I440r: hi
22:25:15 <Serg_Penguin> I440r: please put compiled kernel.com in all IsForth releases !!!
22:25:44 <Serg_Penguin> i tried to try it ;))) but dhamn i got no NASM w/ xdefine :(((
22:26:18 <I440r> that will make it too big loil
22:26:23 <Serg_Penguin> ???
22:26:25 <I440r> what version of linux are you using ?
22:26:33 <I440r> distro i mean
22:26:48 <Serg_Penguin> it was ~30k non-zipped !
22:26:54 <Serg_Penguin> i use red hat 7.2
22:27:04 <I440r> lol
22:27:07 <I440r> exactly!
22:27:23 <I440r> if you go to nasm.sf.net and download the latest stable THAT will work
22:28:40 <Serg_Penguin> huh... i may do it, but IMHO i'd better suck 15k (+kernel.com in TGZ) than 500k or 1,5M :(((
22:29:19 <I440r> oh
22:29:20 <Serg_Penguin> extra steps, cruft in a system... why ?
22:29:24 <I440r> hang on
22:29:27 <I440r> thers another way :)
22:29:29 <I440r> wait!!
22:30:20 <I440r> dns me
22:30:23 <I440r> ftp to that address
22:30:32 <I440r> look in the ROOT of the ftp for a file called nasm
22:30:34 <I440r> download that
22:32:25 <I440r> did you get it ?
22:32:50 <I440r> DOS is Dead? I didn't even know it was sick!
22:32:53 <I440r> lol
22:34:02 <Serg_Penguin> 63.185.113.100 connect timeout
22:34:27 <njd> his ftp works
22:34:51 <I440r> njd can you download that nasm and dcc it to him ?
22:35:15 <njd> spose
22:35:20 <Serg_Penguin> no, i can't accept DCC
22:35:27 <Serg_Penguin> for some weird reason
22:35:32 <I440r> oh
22:35:33 <njd> ok maybe not
22:35:37 <I440r> erm gimme yer emaikl again :)
22:35:53 <Serg_Penguin> snaga(hot-dog)inbox.ru
22:36:20 <I440r> hehe
22:36:59 * Grant_ slaps I440r so where you working?
22:37:25 <I440r> in texas :)
22:37:28 <I440r> are you in tx ?
22:38:13 <I440r> sent!
22:39:21 <Serg_Penguin> ok, it'll arrive in a while, coz it's 'condom' box, checked periodically by main box server
22:39:33 <I440r> ok
22:39:44 <Serg_Penguin> how big ?
22:40:19 <I440r>  252360 
22:40:22 <I440r> is that too big ?
22:41:45 <Serg_Penguin> it's a bomb ;))
22:42:10 <I440r> ?
22:42:13 <I440r> meaning ?
22:42:33 <I440r> oh - a mailbomb lol
22:42:59 <Serg_Penguin> in FIDO, where letters go in zipped packs, 'bomb' is malformed ZIP what causes node to hang
22:43:25 <I440r> well thats a linux executable
22:43:27 <I440r> +x it :P
22:44:18 <Serg_Penguin> dhamn, i'd better suck NASM from less byte-expen$$$ive place ;((
22:44:32 <I440r> :(
22:44:58 <Serg_Penguin> but why do you insist so hard on compiling IsForth by user ????
22:44:59 <I440r> erm. how about i email youa ./kernekl.com
22:45:24 <Serg_Penguin> kernel.com.GZ
22:45:33 <Serg_Penguin> ok
22:46:02 <Serg_Penguin> better put it at website right now, not send me exclusively ;)))
22:47:48 <I440r> oh well i just sent it lol
22:47:53 <I440r> i gotta go zzz :(
22:48:02 <Serg_Penguin> ;))
22:48:08 <I440r> did you get it ?
22:48:11 <I440r> or wont you know yet
22:48:30 <Serg_Penguin> i gotta ZZZ in another meaning - fly like a bee in my office ;)))
22:51:36 <I440r> ehh
22:52:10 <I440r> did you get kernel.com ?
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23:24:27 <LOOP-HOG> hi
23:38:38 <ianP> hi
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