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03:44:30 <mur> hello
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09:15:55 <schickhj> Hello, is there a way to print the floating point stack, too - like .s?
09:15:59 <schickhj> in gforth?
09:29:41 * arke is back (gone 09:42:26)
09:44:00 <Herkamire> gforth has a floating point stack?
09:44:45 <schickhj> yes, but I can't print it
09:45:11 <Herkamire> when I enter a number with a decimal point such as:  1.34 it puts this on the stack: 134 0
09:46:48 <schickhj> yes, but when I type 1e34 it should work
09:47:05 <schickhj> see: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~forth/gforth_15.html
09:52:59 <schickhj> is there another forth compiler / interpreter that gforth, which is free (and perhaps better?)
09:56:05 <arke> schickhj: wait until i've finished mine :P
09:56:26 <schickhj> ;) how far is your one ;)
09:57:26 <arke> not very far at all
09:57:33 <arke> schickhj: what os are you runnung?
09:57:38 <arke> running*
09:57:44 <schickhj> linux
09:57:56 <arke> schickhj: isforth.clss.net
09:58:54 <schickhj> arke: why you have created a new one?
09:59:31 <arke> just for fun, and because itll have some nice features a normal forth doesnt have
09:59:56 <schickhj> arke: for example, sounds interesting ;)
10:00:27 <arke> hrm
10:00:31 <arke> it has lambda
10:00:56 <schickhj> lmbda, what mean lmbda?
10:01:04 <arke> my-array ( dup @ dup * swap ! ) map
10:01:10 <schickhj> I'm a beginner in the forth language ;)
10:01:21 <arke> forth doesnt have lambda
10:01:33 <arke> do you know lisp or scheme or haskell or any ML language?
10:01:45 <schickhj> only some basics
10:01:49 <arke> aah
10:01:50 <arke> well
10:02:00 <arke> lambda is when you create a function on the fly
10:02:19 <schickhj> ahh, ok - know it's clear
10:02:26 <arke> schickhj: are you from germany? if yes, i can continue in german if you like :)
10:03:01 <schickhj> yes, I'm from Germany - if this is not a problem agains the channel rules, shur - continue with german
10:03:10 <onetom> schickhj: 1e 2e f.s  <2> 1. 2.  ok
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10:03:47 <arke> schickhj: hmm ... bin schon fertig :)
10:03:57 <arke> naja
10:04:13 <arke> mein forth wird dann auch kons paare und so haben
10:04:38 <schickhj> arke: ich werds nach mal ausprobieren - hoert sich gut an
10:04:54 <arke> :)
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10:08:49 <schickhj> arke: ist Dein Forth Programm in Assembler geschrieben, hab es gerade ausgepackt.
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13:28:06 * arke is away: Work -- Juji: I'll be back in about 5 hours, and then I'll finish
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16:31:23 <kc5tja> re gilbert
16:32:01 * kc5tja is trying to exhaustively search for his bike lock's combination -- none of the combinations I was positive I used works with it.  :/
16:32:08 <kc5tja> I'm 75% the way through the search space though.
16:32:44 <gilbertplan9> dammit this thing keeps coughing at me.
16:33:10 <gilbertplan9> 75%?
16:33:22 <gilbertplan9> take the zen approach. imagine what it could possible be :)
16:34:04 <kc5tja> I am taking the zen approach.  I'm imaging it could be any one of 10,000 possibilities.
16:34:07 <kc5tja> Hence, I'm trying them all.
16:34:12 <gilbertplan9> hahahaha
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16:51:54 <gilbertplan9> aloha
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20:24:25 <kc5tja> back
20:34:18 * arke is back (gone 07:06:12)
20:34:46 <arke> kc5tja: y0!
20:35:23 <kc5tja> re
20:35:33 <kc5tja> Just fooling around with my guitar.
20:35:38 <arke> fun :)
20:35:54 <arke> kc5tja: decided to ditch the ( ) constructs, and go with : ; instead :)
20:38:06 * kc5tja nods
20:38:16 <kc5tja> Man, I've forgotten so much about how to play this guitar.  Gahh.
20:38:20 * kc5tja has to get back into it.
20:38:46 <arke> :)
20:39:07 <ianP> guitar is fun
20:39:54 <kc5tja> Only when you know how to play.  :D
20:40:29 <kc5tja> Otherwise, it's merely entertaining (though not necessarily to others :) ).
20:40:43 <arke> entertaining = fun .... ?
20:41:41 <kc5tja> I suppose.
20:43:35 <arke> hmmm.
20:43:40 <arke> im writing my compiler ... 
20:43:41 <arke> and
20:43:47 <arke> i suck at parsing
20:45:31 <arke> XD
20:46:04 * kc5tja really ought to start hacking on FS/Forth again.
20:46:05 * kc5tja sighs
20:46:20 <arke> heh
20:46:30 <arke> mine isnt really a Forth, its just a forth compiler
20:46:32 <arke> like gcc
20:46:39 <arke> written in assembly
20:46:41 <arke> :)
20:48:26 <kc5tja> :)
20:48:32 <kc5tja> Except that GCC wasn't written in assembly.  :D
20:48:52 <arke> i know.
20:48:56 <arke> i dont do assembly
20:49:02 <arke> wem
20:49:03 <arke> erm
20:49:04 <arke> wait
20:49:05 <rpc> god what a nightmare that would be
20:49:16 <arke> i DO do assembly
20:49:25 <arke> heh ... nethack in asm
20:49:34 <arke> THAT would be a nightmare
20:49:52 <rpc> i started to get really interested in forth after taking a compilers class
20:49:55 <rpc> bored the hell out of me
20:50:04 <rpc> and i liked the idea of languages with no grammar :)
20:50:13 <rpc> or very simple grammar anytway
20:50:14 <rpc> -t
20:50:55 <arke> forth is easy to parse
20:50:59 <arke> but still hard for me
20:51:03 <arke> see how much I suck? :P
20:51:54 <rpc> i just started myself
20:52:30 <arke> i need to find a pdf on parsing or something
20:53:17 <rpc> any compilers book should have a decent amount of information
20:55:00 <arke> bah.
20:55:02 <rpc> irc.bookwarez.net #bw-tech
20:55:03 <rpc> :)
20:55:05 <arke> compiler books are evil
20:55:07 <rpc> indeed
20:55:11 <arke> bw-tech?
20:55:19 <rpc> technical bookwarez
20:55:26 <arke> oh heh
20:56:27 * kc5tja was thinking about his 65816 homebrew PC project.
20:57:19 <kc5tja> Strange as it may sound, it might be better for me to build it with a total of 64KB of addressible memory; latching the upper 8 address bus bits threatens to add too much propegation delay to the address decoding logic to run it at 12.5MHz.
20:58:28 <arke> :)
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21:03:06 <LOOP-HOG> hi
21:03:23 <kc5tja> re
21:03:24 <arke> y0
21:03:24 <Herkamire> arke: really, the only parsing you have to do is read in to the next white-space. it would be best if you would write a function that takes a char as an operand, and reads into the next occurance of that char (and if the char is space, than to any whitespace)
21:03:29 <Herkamire> hi LOOP-HOG 
21:03:33 <LOOP-HOG> :)
21:03:54 <LOOP-HOG> WORD
21:04:06 <arke> Herkamire: well, forth whitespace can ne CR, LF, space, and tab
21:04:25 <Herkamire> kc5tja: I wrote the ascii source encoder for my forth in python (because the perl one was getting hard to maintain)
21:04:29 <arke> Herkamire: so, ill have to check for  each case
21:04:30 <Herkamire> but the python is too slow.
21:04:38 <Herkamire> arke: there's only two cases
21:04:49 <arke> hm?
21:05:03 <arke> can be 8, 10, 13, or 32
21:05:05 <Herkamire> arke: what language are you using?
21:05:09 <arke> Herkamire: asm
21:05:24 <kc5tja> Python can be slow if you do things that involve a lot of string manipulation.
21:05:26 <Herkamire> 8 is delete
21:05:35 <arke> Herkamire: 8 is tab.
21:05:39 <arke> ..i think...
21:05:42 <Herkamire> 9 is tab
21:05:49 <Herkamire> 8 is backspace
21:05:55 <ianP> kc5tja=: why's that?
21:06:05 <LOOP-HOG> KEY <tab> EMIT .
21:06:45 <Herkamire> LOOP-HOG: except for the EMIT part... 9 is the winner
21:07:16 <LOOP-HOG> oops
21:07:22 <LOOP-HOG> i would have caught it the 2nd time
21:07:29 <arke> :)
21:07:29 <arke> ok
21:07:37 <arke> but still, theres 4 cases i have to check for
21:07:39 <kc5tja> ianP: Python's bytecode interpretter is horrifically slow and unoptimized (has been for years).  Also, it uses reference counting for its primary form of garbage collection; hence any temporary objects are constantly being allocated and deallocated.
21:10:56 <Herkamire> kc5tja: does python have some sort of quick hash table for short strings that I could use for my dictionary?
21:11:15 <Herkamire> I think that's what made the perl script fast is that I used a hash.
21:11:56 <Herkamire> a little late now, I'm already 1/2 done rewriting it in C
21:12:11 <kc5tja> I'm sure that it does.
21:12:26 <kc5tja> Look around on the http://www.python.org/ site, under documentation, library reference.
21:12:41 <rpc> python has a 'dictionary' datstructure, though i cant speak for its speed
21:13:12 <kc5tja> rpc: I recall that someone wrote a module for Python which mimicks the built-in dictionary type, but uses MUCH faster algorithms for it.
21:13:29 <rpc> nice
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21:21:26 <rpc> the python internals are very clean
21:21:34 <rpc> refreshing if you've ever looked at perlguts
21:21:39 <rpc> *shivver*
21:22:27 <arke> :P
21:22:59 <kc5tja> yup
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21:27:39 <arke> whats the EOF character for DOS?
21:28:05 <kc5tja> ^Z
21:28:11 <kc5tja> (ASCII 26)
21:28:21 <arke> sw33t.
21:28:23 <arke> thanks
21:28:28 <kc5tja> Why?'
21:28:32 <kc5tja> Why? even
21:28:41 <arke> thats a definite? even when redirecting a file from stdin?
21:28:49 <arke> kc5tja: for my compiler :)
21:28:54 <kc5tja> No.  DOS's file redirection is binary in nature.
21:29:01 <arke> well
21:29:28 <arke> im using al=0x08 to get redirected characters from stdin
21:29:54 <arke> so if i do blah < my_file , would 26 still be the right character?
21:30:31 <kc5tja> DOS does not appent 26 to the end of a file.
21:30:44 <kc5tja> DOS has Unix-like behavioral characteristics with respect to file redirection.
21:31:17 <arke> eh
21:31:21 <kc5tja> So if your text editor does not append a ^Z character to the text file, you will never see a ^Z.
21:31:27 <ianP> ugh,. reading perl
21:31:41 <arke> so what does al=0x08 return when the end of file of a redirected file is encountered?
21:31:50 <kc5tja> An error.
21:31:59 <kc5tja> Carry bit is set, and AL = error code
21:32:24 <arke> bah.
21:32:39 <arke> ill just use direct file reads, and wont worry about redirection :)
21:32:43 <arke> erm
21:32:53 <arke> anybody knows how arguments work in DOS asm?
21:33:41 <kc5tja> ?
21:33:50 <arke> argc and argv in asm
21:33:55 <arke> DOS asm, rather
21:34:25 <kc5tja> CS:0080h contains the length of the command tail.
21:34:36 <kc5tja> CS:0081h is the first character of the command tail (usually a space).
21:34:49 <kc5tja> Note that the name of the command proper does NOT appear in this buffer.
21:35:00 <arke> hm bah
21:35:06 <kc5tja> I'm also assuming CS:0000h points to the program segment prefix structure.
21:35:07 <arke> is this for EXE and COM?
21:35:14 <kc5tja> COM
21:35:16 <arke> or just EXE?
21:35:20 <arke> oh
21:35:20 <arke> :)
21:35:28 <kc5tja> I forget how to find the PSP if you're running as an EXe.
21:35:35 <kc5tja> I think there's an INT 21h function to return the current PSP.
21:37:05 <arke> DOS arguments suck.
21:37:13 <arke> linux is much nicer in that way.
21:37:13 <kc5tja> That's your opinion.
21:37:46 <arke> well, in DOS, you need an adress, and it takes the amount of characters, not actual args.
21:37:52 <arke> in linux, its all on the stack :)
21:38:09 <kc5tja> Your definition of argument is strange to me.
21:38:17 <kc5tja> Invoking a program is a glorified subroutine call.
21:38:22 <kc5tja> DOS passes the command tail as an argument.
21:38:23 <rpc> system calls arguments typically reside in the registers for linux and bsd
21:38:24 <rpc> if they can.
21:38:32 <kc5tja> The C startup code is supposed to parse that tail and package the arguments accordingly.
21:38:46 <kc5tja> rpc: Wrong type of arguments.
21:38:50 <rpc> ah
21:38:57 <rpc> command line arguments?
21:39:01 <arke> yep
21:39:03 <rpc> ah
21:45:42 <arke> http://www.ctyme.com/intr/rb-2779.htm
21:45:50 <arke> can somebody explain to me how this is supposed to work?
21:46:01 <arke> all i want to do is open a file with read only permission :)
21:52:54 <arke> oh wait
21:52:56 <arke> i can redirect
21:53:09 <kc5tja> Goodness.  I was able to kinda sorta keep up with Robbery, Assault and Battery, by Genesis.  I'm pretty pleased with myself.
21:53:11 <arke> and itll catch EOF with 26 if i use 0x08
21:53:24 <arke> it wouldnt if i were to use 0x01 tho
21:53:29 <arke> XD
21:53:56 <kc5tja> I think I can actually start to play along with some of these songs if I just practice for an hour or so a day.
21:54:07 <kc5tja> It'll probably take me a few months of work though.
21:54:28 <kc5tja> "Ripples" is a bit too complex for me at the moment though.  :D
21:54:33 <kc5tja> 12-string guitars always throw me off.
21:55:16 <arke> XD
21:55:20 <arke> i dont like 12-string
21:56:56 <kc5tja> I love the sound of a 12-string.
21:57:11 <kc5tja> I wouldn't feel comfortable playing one though.  Especially when my 6-string skills aren't quite 1337 yet.
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22:03:30 <arke> kc5tja: i dont like the sound or feel of a 12-string
22:03:40 <arke> 12 string = suckage.
22:04:01 <kc5tja> You know, you seem to have an awful lot of "opinions" tonight.  :D
22:04:25 <kc5tja> Well played, a 12-string can give some of the most haunting effects you can get in a song.
22:04:37 <kc5tja> c.f. Steve Hackett
22:06:37 * arke is away: sl33333333333p ... zZzZzZ
22:07:14 <rpc> sleep = suckage.
22:07:26 <kc5tja> :P
22:13:41 <ianP> sleep rocks
22:13:56 <ianP> now if only i could g et 36 hours of awake and 12 of asleep or something
22:14:13 <kc5tja> heheh
22:15:40 <kc5tja> Well, that was more fun than I thought it'd be.
22:15:49 * kc5tja is glad he fiddled with the guitar.
22:16:33 <kc5tja> I was surprised that I was able to kinda sorta produce sounds that mroe or less sounded like Genesis "Robbery, Assault, and Battery," if you had a sufficiently vivid imagination.
22:16:58 <kc5tja> Some other songs I was able to catch certain key chord or melody progressions, but I was hopelessly lost through most of them.  :)
22:17:11 <kc5tja> That's OK though.
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22:17:55 <Serg_Penguin> hi !
22:19:55 <Serg_Penguin> kc5tja: did you see my 'terse control words' ?
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22:42:23 <Robert> Hi Serg_Penguin 
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22:45:15 <Serg_Penguin> hi Robert ;))
22:45:37 <Serg_Penguin> do you have a digicam ?
22:45:54 * Serg_Penguin is choosing mobile phone
22:46:05 <Robert> Yes, I've got one.
22:46:23 <Serg_Penguin> what one ?
22:47:06 <Serg_Penguin> i seen the sysadmin girl i dated over UNIX forum ;)))
22:47:13 <Serg_Penguin> she has Oly Camedia C350
22:47:38 <Serg_Penguin> she's mega c00l ;)))))
22:48:06 <Robert> Hmm.. don't remember the name of it.
22:48:16 <kc5tja> Serg_Penguin: Yes, I did.  Very nicely written, I think.
22:48:34 <Serg_Penguin> kc5tja: tnx
22:48:52 <Serg_Penguin> i'll add more later ;))
22:49:18 <Serg_Penguin> Robert: Mpix ? zoom ?
22:52:10 <Robert> ~4 Mpixels, I think. 3x optical zoom.
22:52:49 <Serg_Penguin> wow, kewl !
22:53:25 <Robert> Yes, it's pretty decent. http://robert.zizi.org/misc.html <-- threre I have some pictures taken with it.
22:53:54 <Serg_Penguin> i'm in doubt between 2M, fix 28mm, ~120$, and 3M,3X - Camedia C350 ?
22:54:30 <Robert> What's the price of the latter?
22:56:03 <kc5tja> OK folks, I have to go to bed.
22:56:11 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK")
22:56:48 <Serg_Penguin> Robert: ~270$
22:56:57 <Robert> Oh...
22:57:06 <Serg_Penguin> too much ?
22:57:07 <Robert> Well, depends on what you can afford.
22:57:17 <Robert> Of course..
22:58:21 <Serg_Penguin> 1 film+process+print = ~7$
22:58:35 <Serg_Penguin> or 10$
23:00:14 <Serg_Penguin> thinking about money on every trigger hit defeats creativity
23:01:25 <Robert> Yes.
23:01:57 <Serg_Penguin> Robert: it'll be interesting if you'll take pics of everyday life ;))
23:02:23 <Robert> You mean, of my computer?
23:02:39 <Serg_Penguin> bad joke ;(((
23:02:57 <Serg_Penguin> i'm now tearing my head out of the box and getting a life ;))
23:03:31 <Serg_Penguin> girls are much more fun than program bugs ;)
23:04:52 <Robert> Obviously, the girls don't seem to think I'm much more fun than programming bugs.
23:04:57 <Robert> Now some school, see you later.
23:05:13 <Serg_Penguin> so do become more fun than bugs !
23:05:22 <Robert> I am. ;)
23:05:23 <Robert> bbl
23:05:31 <Serg_Penguin> bbl
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.09.14