00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.09.12
01:04:38 <Serg_Penguin> mur: i have another strike of game writing idea-fix
01:04:40 <Serg_Penguin> ;))
01:11:36 <mur> hmm
01:12:35 <Serg_Penguin> what'll you suggest for 3-5k of code ?
01:12:35 <mur> new kind of game idea?
01:12:48 <mur> 3d world simulator ;)
01:12:55 <Serg_Penguin> hehe
01:13:07 <Serg_Penguin> i think of yet another Rogue-like
01:13:24 <mur> i created hand made game last night
01:13:38 <Serg_Penguin> non-computer
01:13:39 <Serg_Penguin> ?
01:13:40 <mur> i cut pixels from paper i painted black and made wall look like from space invaders
01:13:58 <mur> i scored 1530 points ;)
01:14:22 <Serg_Penguin> brb - users
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01:45:15 <fridge> hey
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07:12:10 <XeF4>  hmz, is Retro a dead project now?
07:12:16 <uuter> no
07:12:29 <uuter> check the Forum
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07:42:50 <Serg_Penguin> re !
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10:13:14 <fridge> ls
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11:09:24 <cduce> about/     forth.rtf  forthchan.txt  irclog/   mud/
11:09:25 <cduce> articles/  forth.txt  forthppl.txt   isforth/
11:09:25 <cduce> thin@bespin:~/code$
11:09:34 <cduce> there you go fridge
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12:27:08 <Herkamire> what's a good window manager for a newbie to linux (using gnome desktop)?
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13:09:59 <onetom> icewm is the most optimal choice
13:10:26 <onetom> later u can change 2 fluxbox, xfce
13:10:45 <mur> hey one tom
13:11:25 * onetom is damn tired. just dropped by 4 some secs b4 going 2 bed
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13:12:44 <mur> terve gilbertdeb
13:15:13 <gilbertdeb> terve mur
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13:37:08 <Herkamire> does xfce work well with gnome?
13:37:32 <Herkamire> the xfce site said that it was a desktop manager or something
13:42:05 <onetom> btw, whats wrong w sawmill? thats the default wm 4 gnome
13:47:30 <Herkamire> sawfish is ok
13:47:53 <Herkamire> I got rather frustrated with it after a while though
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16:57:27 <Robert> Hi
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17:02:11 <uuter> hello
17:02:20 <suprdupr> hi
17:02:25 <suprdupr> got an idea
17:02:32 <suprdupr> replace and : and ; with red words
17:02:38 <suprdupr> at the end of the definition
17:02:58 <suprdupr> it works in my tokenizing system ala AHA
17:03:21 <suprdupr> im still factoring and trying to come up with interesting stuff
17:03:41 <suprdupr> like push3 push2 push1 jmp0 optimizations
17:03:59 <suprdupr> what i mean is converting call1 call2 call3 call4 ret into a more optimal form
17:04:11 <suprdupr> at compile time from tokenized source code
17:04:26 <uuter> hmm, i don't know much about colour forth
17:04:47 <suprdupr> since its more packetized than tokenized, i must lookback at compiled code to be sure that i can for example convert a call1 ret to jmp1
17:04:59 <suprdupr> like colorforth implements.
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17:05:17 <suprdupr> hmmmm its very interesting you should learn more about it
17:06:01 <suprdupr> i am developping a tokenizing scheme with 5 colors
17:06:14 <suprdupr> its byte oriented, i dont encode characters
17:06:32 <suprdupr> ascii for now, readableunder hex viewer
17:09:13 <suprdupr> anyway, lot cleaner to define then give a name to a word
17:11:34 <suprdupr> one thing I liked about pure asm programming was forward offsets
17:12:03 <suprdupr> so i implemented short jumps optimization in my forth to at least make compiled code smaller
17:12:25 <suprdupr> its a forth for 32 bit x86
17:12:35 <uuter> cool
17:12:44 <suprdupr> im writing the compiler and at the same time defining my forth writing style
17:12:56 <uuter> the main thing that troubles me, is that it looks like the source is not plain ASCII
17:13:11 <suprdupr> 5 token types
17:13:16 <suprdupr> 5 colors
17:13:24 <suprdupr> words are at most 16 bytes long
17:13:40 <uuter> yes, but can i edit it with plain old TextEdit?
17:13:40 <suprdupr> first color is green and refers to a word being compiled
17:13:50 <suprdupr> no
17:13:58 <suprdupr> its word oriented
17:14:11 <suprdupr> chars are used only at edit time to find indexes
17:14:21 <suprdupr> theres no search at compile time
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17:14:41 <suprdupr> are you familiar with the aha project of jeff fox?
17:15:55 <suprdupr> its a source tokenizing scheme
17:15:56 <uuter> not really
17:16:01 <uuter> i have heard of it
17:16:14 <suprdupr> did you read the transcript?
17:16:46 <uuter> no
17:16:47 <suprdupr> perhaps the best material available on forth, it relates to its history up to colorforth and go on with aha in the final half
17:16:54 <uuter> im a classical Forth person
17:17:06 <suprdupr> ans ;p
17:17:12 <uuter> no
17:17:20 <suprdupr> kkk just picking
17:17:24 <uuter> I pick the best of both
17:17:47 <suprdupr> forth is about art
17:18:03 <suprdupr> i like to stroke outised the lines ;p
17:18:20 <uuter> forth is outside the lines :)
17:18:36 <suprdupr> bah the : definoition blablabla ; is still complicated
17:18:45 <suprdupr> blablabla definition
17:18:48 <suprdupr> with the right colors
17:18:52 <suprdupr> and no space
17:18:55 <suprdupr> is better ;p
17:18:56 <uuter> they are all just words
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17:21:36 <suprdupr> im sure everyone knows in their hacker gut that ans sucks but nobody knows why
17:22:04 <suprdupr> i have some vague impressions, but i dont know and dont are, since i never used it
17:22:16 <uuter> design by commitee
17:22:23 <uuter> comprimises were made
17:23:02 <Robert> Hi suprdupr.
17:23:39 <Robert> What I like about Forth is that you take the ideas you like and leave out the rest.
17:23:58 <suprdupr> yep
17:24:04 <Robert> So that nobody knows how to use your Forth without reading the manual! ;)
17:24:09 <Robert> Not even you.
17:24:49 <suprdupr> unless its so easy to use and even reverse enginneer that "everyone" can understand it
17:26:01 <Speuler> anyone got a running msdos at hand ?
17:26:38 <Robert> Not on any booted computer.
17:27:15 <Speuler> ok. me neither. wanted to see whether the just uploaded version of the metastic metacompiler still metacompiles
17:27:42 <Speuler> guess i''' try it by installing an emulator
17:29:32 <Speuler> metastic is the metacompiling forth kernel (means, the kernel is all required to metacompile it, nothing more required than the kernel and its source)
17:29:53 <Speuler> or, the kernel is the metacompiler
17:30:27 <suprdupr> kernel you mean primitives loke + etc ?
17:31:29 <Speuler> yeah, primitives, a tiny assembler, and of course some hi-level word too
17:31:57 <Speuler> the kernel is not a complete forth. needs to be extended to become forth. but it is a complete metacompiler :)
17:32:35 <Speuler> (can be extended towards forth by loading source files, of course)
17:32:56 <Speuler> for example, the kernel has no prompt
17:33:11 <Speuler> is not meant for interactive use
17:33:19 <suprdupr> my compiler too can metacompile from tokenized source
17:33:23 <suprdupr> me neither
17:33:41 <Speuler> you need to load the prompt first
17:35:20 <Speuler> the kernel has no "include" neither. that one needs to be loaded too before you can include :)
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18:05:33 <suprdupr> anyway see ya everyone
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18:31:40 <SDO> if anyone cares, there is a great show going on right now at www.kexp.org  shake-the-shack is the show, going on for the next 2.5 hours, looks ot be a dedication to the late Johnny Cash
18:40:15 <Speuler> "error: no error" 
18:40:25 <Speuler> perfectly reasonable
18:41:50 <Speuler> "you invoked 'fix' but there wasn't any error which could be fixed"
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21:59:02 <arke> y0 all
22:01:23 <Sonarman> h'lo arke
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22:11:57 <arke> Sonarman: wassup??
22:16:39 <Sonarman> just being useless :)
22:17:41 <arke> :D
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