00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.09.09
00:09:00 <mur> Fed. emergency messing adminstrators
00:10:28 <mur> kc5tja:  goign sleep soon?
01:05:18 <kc5tja> Yeah.  Like right about now.
01:05:26 <kc5tja> night
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03:23:07 <mur> hello paradiser
03:25:33 <njd> hello teliar
03:27:33 <mur> actaully this is ust my friends shell
03:27:45 <njd> where are you from then?
03:43:25 <mur> finland
03:52:28 <fridge> it must cost a fair bit for ultratechnology to host all these videos
04:12:18 <mur> hmm
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05:35:10 <snow_richard> good morning folks
05:36:07 <Robert> Hi snow_richard.
05:37:10 <snow_richard> Can't stay online much here, this is the office computer for the Veteran's home I am staying in.  I am trying to get a modem to work with my Red Hat computer upstairs but I may need to go buy an external modem for RedHat.
05:39:17 <snow_richard> was thinking about recoding that Michael project.  My web site vanished.
05:39:21 <mur> hey snow_richard 
05:40:11 <snow_richard> first major craving for the cigarettes last night.  Got over it though
05:42:44 <snow_richard> the next new resident here was not able to come yet, his daughter has been killed in a car wreck and he thought it best to stay in hospital a few more days.
05:44:39 <snow_richard> anyway, need to get off here now.
05:44:45 <snow_richard> talk later
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09:58:02 <Robert> Hi Herkamire 
09:59:40 <Herkamire> hi Robert :)
10:00:04 * Robert yawns.
10:03:56 <Herkamire> grrrrr... I've got ImageMagick soooo close to doing what I want. but the background color it puts on my text is mis-aligned by 3 pixels
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10:15:02 <bashfire> aye#
10:16:24 <Robert> Hi there
10:16:27 <Robert> Do I know you?
10:17:33 <bashfire> rO| here
10:17:48 <bashfire> forthing again..
10:18:21 <bashfire> to answer your question: not really ;-)
10:19:28 <Robert> Oh, I didn't recognize your nick. :)
10:20:53 <bashfire> how are your HAM experiments?
10:22:44 * bashfire had a look at chuck's IDE code
10:22:52 <Robert> Well, I think about taking the test in about a month, when the local club is having their course/test.
10:22:53 <bashfire> amazing :-)
10:23:01 <Robert> What IDE, that of ColorForth?
10:23:07 <bashfire> y
10:23:21 <bashfire> it's five lines only
10:23:31 <Robert> Oh, IDE driver?
10:23:45 <Robert> I thought you meant Integrated Development Environment!
10:23:54 <Robert> So I started to wonder.. :)
10:23:58 <bashfire> sorry, yes. HDD IDE driver
10:25:58 <bashfire> Robert: umm sure, chuck's visual colorforth.net studio :)
10:28:30 <Robert> Heh
10:38:14 <bashfire> Heh what?
10:41:13 <Robert> Is there anything like that?
10:43:02 <bashfire> GLib-GObject file gobject.c: line 1338 (g_object_unref): assertion `object->ref_count > 0' failed
10:43:06 <bashfire> brb
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10:46:49 <bashfire> Robert: i'm afraid cm suffices the 'edit' word..
10:48:34 <bashfire> sean's map is heading somewhat in that direction though
10:50:29 <bashfire> hmm what a ... topic &%$§&% 
10:52:30 <bashfire> basically kc5tja want's to say, please no offtopic, ??
10:55:30 <Robert> Something like that :D
10:55:43 <Robert> Except maybe non-Forth things.
10:55:51 <Robert> Oh.. I see.
10:55:57 * Robert misread what bashfire said.
10:56:00 <Herkamire> how can I find the length of a string in this font?  -adobe-helvetica-*-r-*-*-12-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
10:58:02 <bashfire> liked the earlier topic "sometimes seams to be  dead, but is not" :-) so refreshingly modest and sympathic
10:58:44 <bashfire> Herkamire: where's that from?
11:02:44 <Robert> Hehe!
11:26:06 <Herkamire> bashfire: I need to put a copyright notice on images that are uploaded onto my client's site. I need to know the width of the text so I can get the white background for it the right size.
11:27:02 <Herkamire> ImageMagic does a background for the text, but it puts it in the wrong place by 3 pixels (letters like p and g hang off the bottom)
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16:06:40 <SDO> hehehe, entertainment value, now I have seen it all... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3241684850&category=366
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18:29:05 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
18:32:19 <gilbertbsd> aloha
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19:12:02 <I440r> tbw!
19:12:06 <TheBlueWizard> hiyahiyahiya I440r!!!! :)))
19:12:26 <TheBlueWizard> anything exciting?
19:12:27 <I440r> :)
19:12:42 <I440r> nope :)
19:12:48 <I440r> who is bashfire ?
19:12:52 <TheBlueWizard> I will be on trip in two days
19:12:53 <I440r> a new #forther ?
19:13:15 <I440r> yea - vizit family in .az right ?
19:13:20 <TheBlueWizard> don't know this bashfire....presumably a newbie
19:13:26 <TheBlueWizard> yeah
19:14:04 <I440r> well ifn yer awake - hi bashfire :)
19:14:34 * TheBlueWizard pokes bashfire :)
19:14:44 <I440r> lol
19:15:16 * TheBlueWizard is I440r's moronic sidekick...whatever I440r suggests, he will slavishly do! ;)
19:15:37 <I440r> lol
19:16:06 * TheBlueWizard is also famously self-deprecating
19:23:14 <I440r> anyone here use links ? (like lynx but spelt wrong :) 
19:23:14 <I440r> ???
19:24:06 * TheBlueWizard has heard of this, but never used it
19:25:09 <I440r> im hoping its better than lynx :)
19:25:29 <uuter> i have used it
19:25:38 <uuter> its not bad
19:25:42 <uuter> it can do tables
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19:33:47 <I440r> heh
19:53:40 <Suzanne> hi  i440
19:53:58 <I440r> hi :)
19:54:01 <Suzanne> i was thinking about you yesterday...
19:54:09 <I440r> do u know how to get ssl into links web browser ?
19:54:11 <Suzanne> when i snapped a string on my guitar for the first time in 15 years :P
19:54:23 <I440r> lynx is a pile of shit
19:54:25 <Suzanne> i think you need a special 'ssl capable' version of links
19:54:36 <I440r> where do i get that from ?
19:54:43 <I440r> i cant find it in apt-cache search
19:54:44 <Suzanne> i *think* i've seen one out there, but i'm not positive
19:54:50 <Suzanne> did you try www.freshmeat.net ?
19:55:05 <I440r> apt-cache search links dumps a whole fucking pile of bullshit unrelatred packates
19:55:18 <Suzanne> doesn't surprise me
19:55:25 <Suzanne> 'links' is a somewhat common word :P
19:56:23 <gilbertbsd> links browser
19:56:44 <I440r> no - it dumps a while pile of packages that done have ANYTHING "links" in their name
19:56:45 <Suzanne> oh ffs
19:56:47 <Suzanne> fucking europeans
19:56:55 <Suzanne> the links site is 'shut down' in protest over software patents
19:57:42 <gilbertbsd> it is still accessible :)
19:57:48 <I440r> lol try links.sf.net :)(
19:57:51 <Suzanne> http://packages.debian.org/stable/non-us/links-ssl.html
19:58:31 <I440r> package links-ssl has no install candidate
19:58:42 <Suzanne> i440, bet you don't have 'non-us' in your package sets
19:59:35 <Suzanne> you could just download the .deb from that url :P
19:59:43 <I440r> erm i should have!
19:59:54 <I440r> let me go look
20:00:02 <I440r> yes i do
20:00:40 <TheBlueWizard> non-us makes sense...thx to brain-damaged USA laws
20:00:57 <I440r> i know
20:01:02 <I440r> realy dumb
20:01:12 <I440r> actually, not dumb
20:01:19 <I440r> anally retentive
20:01:55 <Suzanne> tbw, yeah, its not like europe has brain-damaged laws :P
20:02:23 <I440r> lol
20:03:18 <TheBlueWizard> lol
20:03:28 <TheBlueWizard> Suzanne: do you live in Europe?
20:03:32 <Suzanne> not anymore
20:04:12 <I440r> trying elinks
20:05:10 <I440r> why is https so fucking slow at resolving in lynx ANS elinks
20:05:24 <I440r> links found it immediatly and told me ssl wasnt supported
20:05:38 <I440r> but elinks supports ssl :)
20:05:42 <I440r> via openssl i believe
20:06:41 <I440r> but javascript isnt fucking supported - this fucking sucks
20:06:56 <Suzanne> i440, ffs, just 'startx' and 'mozilla' :P
20:07:12 <I440r> cant
20:07:15 <I440r> no fucking mouse
20:07:51 <Suzanne> pff, you can fool X into using keyboard for mouse
20:07:59 <Suzanne> i forget the details, but i've seen it done
20:08:09 <I440r> yea - works great in a 320 by 200 screen too
20:08:19 <I440r> any higher than that and the mouse cralws hehe
20:08:24 <I440r> my screens are all 23987562983569234 by 2349875623985684975
20:08:27 <I440r> ish
20:08:41 <Suzanne> there's your problem then
20:09:14 <I440r> i like alot of real-estate in my display
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20:10:02 <Suzanne> i440, the whole of texas is not 'real estate' :P
20:10:09 <TheBlueWizard> hiya gilbertplan9
20:10:14 <gilbertplan9> heheh
20:10:57 <TheBlueWizard> any chanserv guru here?
20:11:03 <Suzanne> 'quick mom, get the car, i need to go find my mail window'
20:11:29 --- nick: gilbertplan9 -> gilbertdeb
20:12:02 <Suzanne> erk
20:12:10 <Suzanne> apple are getting forceful in their emails
20:12:21 <Suzanne> subject: The New iMac. Upgrade Now.
20:12:46 * TheBlueWizard advises Suzanne to upgrade to Debian :)
20:12:59 <Suzanne> its just a matter of time before they discover the '!' then start adding things like 'or the kitty gets it!'
20:13:25 <Suzanne> tbw, as someone that has used debian in the past, i'm sure that would be a downgrade :P
20:14:05 <I440r> brb, rebooting gateway
20:14:23 <TheBlueWizard> downgrade?  nah
20:14:58 <Suzanne> tbw, are you telling me they've gotten their package system to stop sucking in the last 6 months ?
20:15:03 <Suzanne> it doesn't do stuff like:
20:15:08 <Suzanne> packages to install : vim
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20:15:30 <Suzanne> packages uninstalled due to dependancy issues: gnome, gnome-libs, gnome-base, kde, kde-libs ....
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20:16:09 <Herkamire> can I burn a plan9 CD and give plan9 a decent try without touching my hard drives?
20:16:17 <Suzanne> because that was the final straw for me with debian, when i went to install some text-mode stuff, and it decided that gnome, kde, openssh and a bunch of other stuff was 'incompatible' with it
20:16:27 <gilbertdeb> Herkamire yes you can :)
20:18:47 <TheBlueWizard> which version are you using? testing (sarge)? stable (woody)?  Mind you, I only have one stable version
20:19:08 <TheBlueWizard> besides, you can put in a complaint about it
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20:21:47 <gilbertdeb> Herkamire glenda tends to be rather picky about whose hardware she runs on.
20:22:07 <Herkamire> glenda?
20:22:16 <gilbertdeb> if your hardware does not match very well with whats supported, you might have a terrible time with the plan9 terminal demo.
20:22:25 <gilbertdeb> glenda is to plan9 as tux is to linux :)
20:22:40 <Herkamire> terminal?
20:23:18 <gilbertdeb> thats what the gui interactive frontend is called.
20:23:31 <gilbertdeb> plan9 is made up of servers and a terminal.
20:24:03 <gilbertdeb> authority server/cpu server/file server/venti server/ ...
20:24:25 <gilbertdeb> and a terminal.
20:24:46 <Herkamire> the demo isn't just text based I hope.
20:25:01 <gilbertdeb> No, no.
20:25:07 <Herkamire> I like text... but...
20:25:37 <Herkamire> text usually isn't terribly impressive. just sometimes increadibly effective :)
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20:26:00 <gilbertdeb> the gui is worth interacting with.
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20:32:19 <Herkamire> hmmm... I don't have a ps/2 keyboard. I might be getting one anyway though.
20:32:34 <Herkamire> wish I didn't throw mine out in april
20:32:50 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r again!
20:33:03 * TheBlueWizard pokes bashfire for I440r :)
20:33:24 <TheBlueWizard> gotta love playing a moronic sidekick ;)
20:34:33 <I440r> did he wake up ??? heh
20:36:04 <I440r> im getting a hell of alot of emails that are supposedly from microsoft with an update - these are ALL infected with viruses - i know cuz my av alerts me :)
20:38:44 <Herkamire> it looks like plan9 might support a usb mouse but not a usb keyboard.
20:39:42 <Suzanne> herk, shouldn't be a problem, most motherboards do/allow PS/2 emulation on USB keyboard/mice
20:40:23 <Suzanne> if linux has no problem seeing a USB keyboard in 'legacy mode' i have no doubts that plan9 should see it
20:45:03 <TheBlueWizard> M$ has a policy of NEVER sending any unsolicited emails...it is same with some phony gov't person calling you on phone and asking you for your Social Security number...real gov't callers don't do that at all.  So blaming M$ for those phony emails is a DUMB thing!
20:48:14 <TheBlueWizard> see http://www.microsoft.com/security/incident/blast.asp for statement about its policy of never distributing software by emails
20:48:31 <I440r> tbw i know
20:48:52 <I440r> i dont need to read that, NOBODY sends security updates via email
20:49:00 <I440r> except virus lamers
20:50:23 <TheBlueWizard> correct :))) unfortunately there are so many suckers...P.T. Barnum's maxim about suckers being born every minute...updated to being born every microsecond :P
20:54:08 <I440r> yup
20:59:42 <I440r> ps x
20:59:44 <I440r> erm
20:59:47 <I440r> wrong window :P
21:00:58 <I440r> brb - rebooting THIS machine now :)
21:01:02 <I440r> a/quit bleh!
21:01:02 <I440r> exit
21:01:05 --- quit: I440r ("BitchX-1.0c20cvs -- just do it.")
21:01:56 <Herkamire> Suzanne: the bios on my x86 box do not support usb.
21:02:30 <Herkamire> I don't know what legacy mode is.
21:07:40 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye all
21:07:52 <Herkamire> TheBlueWizard: have a good trip
21:08:04 <TheBlueWizard> bye Herkamire...and thanks :)
21:08:31 <TheBlueWizard> I will be back here tomorrow, but will be out for several days thereafter
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22:05:40 <Serg_Penguin> hi !
22:06:05 <kc5tja> howdy
22:06:24 * kc5tja might not respond right away all the time -- I'm doing math homework.
22:06:58 <Serg_Penguin> what level of EDU ?
22:07:15 <kc5tja> College
22:07:31 <kc5tja> College/university, really
22:08:01 <kc5tja> I might go to bed soon as well; only got 4 hours of sleep last night.  :/
22:08:11 <uuter> heh
22:08:28 <uuter> yeah, > 6 hrs is my goal
22:11:11 <I440r-wor> serg!
22:11:17 <I440r-wor> kc/utter :)
22:11:17 <I440r-wor> erm
22:11:27 <I440r-wor> dammit im NOT at work lol
22:11:30 --- nick: I440r-wor -> I440r
22:12:15 <kc5tja> hehe
22:12:25 <kc5tja> uuter: Mine too, generally.
22:12:42 <kc5tja> but I was stupid, and getting all nostalgic at old-computers.com until 2AM.  :D
22:12:54 <kc5tja> On a test night too!
22:13:03 <kc5tja> But that's OK -- I did good on the test, I think.
22:13:06 * kc5tja is confident.
22:13:50 <Serg_Penguin> I440r: hi!
22:14:05 <I440r> :)
22:14:28 <Serg_Penguin> what kind of Forth do you use at work ?
22:14:53 <I440r> me ?
22:15:01 * Serg_Penguin tried to test new isForth, but i did not boot Linux so long what even forgot root passwd
22:15:02 <I440r> chipforth/polyforth/swiftx
22:15:06 <I440r> bleh
22:15:17 <I440r> lol
22:15:26 <I440r> can you get in under the hood ?
22:15:31 <Serg_Penguin> so gotta find boot cd and krak
22:15:41 <I440r> boot to a rescue cd and mount / to some directory and then chroot ?
22:15:50 <I440r> cracking is simple
22:15:55 <I440r> boot to install cd.
22:15:58 <I440r> switch to console
22:16:00 <I440r> mkdir foo
22:16:02 <Serg_Penguin> yes, yes !
22:16:08 <I440r> mount /dev/hdablah /foo
22:16:10 <I440r> cd foo
22:16:13 <I440r> chroot foo
22:16:13 <I440r> passwd
22:16:14 <I440r> lol
22:16:58 <Serg_Penguin> i'd better make it no login no root passwd at all - coz it's un-networked and physically safe at home
22:17:28 <kc5tja> i just edit the /etc/passwd file and blank out the password field.
22:17:45 <I440r> right
22:18:04 <Serg_Penguin> i better want to see shell rite from power-up, no Login: at all
22:18:29 <Serg_Penguin> user one at Alt-1 and root at Alt-6 ;))
22:19:25 <I440r> heh
22:19:47 <Serg_Penguin> i gotta mess w/ /etc/inittab ?
22:22:24 <I440r> i believe so
22:23:32 <Serg_Penguin> i recall how one neophite whom i converted to Linux, messed w/ so it failed to boot, thinking /etc/inittab=autoexec.bat
22:24:02 <I440r> lol
22:25:19 <Serg_Penguin> i was neophyte too by that time, so i did not figure out how to fix and just reinstalled
22:26:21 <Serg_Penguin> btw, in what RPM original file is, or is it generated at runtime ?
22:26:38 <I440r> ive no idea i dont use redhat :)
22:27:02 <Serg_Penguin> rite, it's a big piece of crap
22:27:13 <Serg_Penguin> it puts shame on Linux name, realy
22:28:00 <Serg_Penguin> since i forgot the pass, i wanna wipe Linux and install BSD
22:28:13 <Serg_Penguin> does isForth work in BSD ?
22:28:58 <kc5tja> Are there any RPM packages labeled "base" at all?
22:29:01 <kc5tja> (note: not kernel)
22:29:06 <I440r> no :(
22:29:30 <Serg_Penguin> the worst thing w/ redhat are RPM dbase wrecking all time, and too much daemons in default install
22:29:53 <Serg_Penguin> even X font server running from bootup, even if i won't run X this day :(((
22:30:06 <kc5tja> There is a possibility that /etc/inittab might not exist anywhere in any RPM file; it's a file required for booting the system, before RPMs can be installed and maintained properly, I think.
22:30:39 <Serg_Penguin> so i had either to guess or reinstall ?
22:31:40 <Serg_Penguin> or restore backup ;)) but he hadn't it, neither any backup device coz he was damn poor by that time
22:33:34 <kc5tja> Or mount his drive on another machine, and edit its /mnt/etc/passwd to clear the root password, and install a known good inittab file in it (e.g., cp /etc/inittab /mnt/etc/inittab)
22:34:01 <Serg_Penguin> it was at home, no good box 
22:34:35 <Serg_Penguin> and reinstall was less pain than taking his HDD home and back again, w/ risk of damage
22:35:24 <Serg_Penguin> ok, quite enough w/ Linux !
22:35:29 <Serg_Penguin> --------
22:35:46 <Serg_Penguin> do you know any 'forth pearls' site ?
22:36:08 <Serg_Penguin> w/ cute words and solutions categorized and explained ?
22:36:28 <kc5tja> Serg_Penguin: Nope, but I'm more or less trying to start one on Speuler's Wiki.
22:36:36 <kc5tja> His wiki is at http://www.forthfreak.net/wiki
22:37:22 <kc5tja> If you go there, I have a section called "ForthDesignPatterns" -- click on that link.
22:37:50 <kc5tja> I already put one pattern up, more to serve as an example (and consistent) format for how to document such things.
22:39:15 <Serg_Penguin> return pattern ? i see
22:39:27 <Serg_Penguin> my ?; looks like exactly that
22:40:19 <Serg_Penguin> : ?; ifnot r> drop then ;
22:41:14 <Serg_Penguin> conditional EXIT
22:42:57 * kc5tja nods
22:43:31 <kc5tja> Feel free to add any other you feel appropriate -- Wikis are free-form, and can be edited by anyone, at any time.
22:43:58 <Serg_Penguin> i think it gotta be more dedicated and more agressive in 'marketing'
22:44:37 <Serg_Penguin> like www.forthideas.org, banners, regular postings of new ideas to progging newsgroups
22:46:23 <Serg_Penguin> coz some ideas may be usefool in other lang's, and this will promote Forth thinking
22:46:55 <Serg_Penguin> for ex., your keybindings may be good in Perl also, via EVAL
22:47:48 <Serg_Penguin> not to say one-liners, if syntax allows
22:50:24 <kc5tja> usefool = useful
22:50:39 <Serg_Penguin> i'm just kidding :)))
22:50:42 * kc5tja nods
22:50:55 <kc5tja> I'll place other patterns up there as I get the time.
22:51:23 <Serg_Penguin> i'll put my REP rite now, out of source i sent to I440r
22:51:31 <kc5tja> I found that the source of VIBE 2.1 is up on the site too (I'm currently up to 2.2 personally), so when I upgrade the source to 2.2, I'll include some discussion on some of the patterns I used in writing it.
22:54:11 <Serg_Penguin> how can i add a chapter, naming it 'Terse control structures' ?
22:56:16 <kc5tja> Edit the page, and name your new chapter TerseControlStructures <-- the Wiki automagically recognizes names that fit that pattern and auto-hyperlinks them.
22:56:29 <kc5tja> If the page doesn't exist, that's OK -- the first time you click on the link, it'll create the page for you.
23:04:14 <Serg_Penguin> btw, one-liner style gotta be mentioned too
23:05:10 <I440r> well its time for zzz
23:05:14 <I440r> nite nite :)
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23:06:01 <kc5tja> Perhaps, but not as a design pattern -- one-versus-many lines per word is an implementation issue, not an overall design issue.
23:06:19 <kc5tja> Perhaps there ought to be an implementation pattern section?
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23:11:35 <kc5tja> Well, I'm getting punchy. 
23:11:50 * kc5tja can't solve these integrals, and I'm having problems staying awake.
23:11:52 <kc5tja> So, . . .
23:11:54 <kc5tja> I'm off to bed.
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23:29:15 <Serg_Penguin> http://www.forthfreak.net/wiki/index.cgi?TerseControlStructures
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.09.09