00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.09.06 00:00:26 yeah. :) 00:03:12 OK, I'm off to bed. 00:03:24 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 01:54:14 --- quit: ianP (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:06:28 --- nick: onetom_ -> onetom 04:29:41 --- join: crc (~crc@AC9CB1FA.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 05:51:45 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4b69.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 05:51:53 'morning 05:55:18 morning Speuler 05:58:08 ah, diligent mr crc :) 05:59:57 btw, is the speed (net connectivity) of the wiki bearable over there ? 06:00:32 Most of the time. 06:00:40 i could put it on a server with a 4 GB instead the 2.5 GB uplink, if that's a concern 06:01:27 I havn't had any real problems with the speed. 06:01:51 i found that resolving the URL is sometimes slow 06:02:09 from canada and the states, that is 06:02:21 no problems in europe, by the looks of it 06:02:43 'm considering a tertiary dns in the states somewhere 06:03:21 both ns1 and ns2 are in germany. one on the 2.5 mbit, the other on the 4 mb uplink 06:03:46 but sealink may be a bottleneck 06:04:22 no problem if your dns has cached it already, but sometimes slow for first contact 06:04:46 True. 06:04:56 dns itself is quick, as it only serves about 10..12 domains 06:05:26 as a result, the load on the dns is low 06:06:09 Hmm, I just use the IP address when I know it :) 06:06:38 ok. i have defines a virtual web domain to forthfreak with the name of its url 06:06:41 defined 06:06:47 so ip adress would work 06:07:00 of its ip address, i mean 06:07:09 Right, the ip is 213.133.108.8 06:07:18 w/o, it would have connected to another page 06:07:28 there are virtual web domains on that server 06:08:03 Well, as long as the ip address remains valid, I use it. 06:08:08 did that when i heard about one problem resolving the name 06:08:22 It's always faster than using dns servers 06:08:26 is static ip 06:08:54 would only change if moved to the 4 gb uplink server 06:09:48 server itself goes with 100 mbit into the net 06:10:00 both do 06:10:29 I wouldn't bother changing it unless you find that accessing it from the states/canada is consistently slow. 06:10:46 i don't do that now. i'll watch how load develops 06:10:55 Ok 06:16:51 the cbel link is very good btw. going to rip some of it:) http://www.cbel.com/forth_programming_language/?order=alpha 06:21:03 A lot of nice stuff to look over :) 06:51:18 what's the english word for free as in "not having to pay" ? 06:52:50 free of charge ? 06:53:07 That would work. 06:53:18 there's no single word for ? 06:53:25 English is a rather inprecise language :( 06:53:50 difficult concepts are often not cast into single words :) 06:54:22 True 06:54:41 there are two words, meaning "free of charge", in german :) 06:55:12 both of them different to "free" as in "liberty" 06:55:37 "gratis" , and "kostenlos" 06:58:06 Yes, but English lacks that distinction 07:00:34 i'm very glad you put that much effort into the wiki. it is nice to see that changes i was about to make have already be done by you. 07:01:13 Glad to help 07:03:26 Wikis make contributing easy :) 07:05:25 t'is an experiment for me, besides the desire to offer forth info. i'm evaluating the usefulness of wikis for use in companies, for collaborative work on projects. 07:05:56 as complement, even replacement for the traditional email information exchange 07:06:25 those experiences of "it has been done already" are very striking indeed 07:08:31 Once I discovered wikis, I havn't stopped using them. 07:09:53 For collaboration, they can't be beat. IMO 07:10:29 some improvements for handling collisons of edits may be thinkable 07:11:08 That's a definate area needing improvements. 07:11:24 it is my impression that about the same kind of people cluster around wiki which are responsable for the free and open software movement 07:12:21 i liken wikis to webpages as webpages are to TV :) 07:12:31 True. Open software is just one aspect of the growing push for relief from copyrights/patents 07:12:46 Wikis encourage free sharing and gathering of knowledge. 07:13:30 the difference between "t'is mine" and "t'is ours" 07:13:35 Websites are static, representing an individual or company, whereas a wiki represents groups of people or companies 07:13:40 Right 07:15:03 but even in free communities, the "mine"-concept puts up its head. i read several times about "my irc channel", for example 07:15:40 didn't know whether i should lol or cry at at that 07:15:58 True enough. People tend to think of things as their own. 07:16:30 which conflicts with the idea that information is free and cannot be owned 07:18:03 It's partially the fault of the law which attaches ownership to everything. 07:18:49 patentibility of software is a big issue in germany at the moment 07:19:02 For instance, under US (and British) copyright laws, everything I'm writing is copyrighted to me unless I explicitly say otherwise. 07:19:21 Patents for software are a braindead idea. 07:19:32 just today, the newstickers say, some compromise has been worked out 07:19:43 haven't checked up on it yet 07:19:56 Hopefully it's a good compromise. 07:22:14 one group registered a patent on lists of signatures, to demonstrate the problem 07:23:08 I know. It's been pushed by Gnome, KDE, and other large projects 07:23:44 Well I have to go. I'll try to be back on later today. 07:24:12 --- quit: crc ("I was using TinyIRC! Visit http://www.tinyirc.net/ for more information.") 07:47:48 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:52:03 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 08:19:39 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:32:29 * arke is away: sh0w3r 09:43:30 --- quit: Suzanne ("Client exiting") 09:46:13 --- join: Suzanne (~suzanne@65-73-37-205.bras01.mdl.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #forth 10:02:29 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 10:02:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 10:18:36 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-188-134.phnet.fi) joined #forth 10:36:20 * Suzanne hmmms 10:37:24 ok 10:37:38 om-tone works better if you are meditating :) 10:38:28 mur, not meditating, just trying to work out if the array functions are a standard part of scheme 10:38:44 meditation might help in that, too 10:40:07 mur: There are many kinds of meditation. The "om" mantra isn't always necessary. Sometimes, it can even be distracting. 10:41:56 yes 10:57:00 The I2C bus reminds me of Commodore's IEC bus. 11:10:24 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@80.237.14.2) joined #forth 11:10:29 hi folks 11:10:39 just a few min from a friend 11:10:48 over radio this time 11:10:58 Wow 11:11:04 You're on pretty late. I think. :) 11:11:14 22:11 11:11:32 not so late, yesterday i got home after midnite 11:11:32 Precisely 12 hour difference. 11:11:38 (from where I live) 11:11:46 wow ! antipode ;)) 11:12:18 err...11 hour. Sorry; I have 11:15 here. 11:12:27 But close enough. 11:13:08 what about bar shootings ? any more bullets in your ceiling ? 11:13:19 ? 11:13:35 once you said u lived between two bars 11:13:49 Yeah -- I don't live there anymore. 11:13:50 and got you windosw shot out twice, yeah ? 11:13:59 That was like 15+ years ago. 11:14:58 ;))) 11:15:04 serg serg serg 11:15:05 :) 11:15:12 hi murrrrr :)) 11:15:26 what's weather at your place ? 11:16:30 here's City's Birthday now - Moscow is 856 years old 11:16:42 Cool 11:16:55 --- join: cduce (cduce@dial-193.ocis.net) joined #forth 11:16:58 it's only written history 11:17:23 Still, a city that is documented to be that old is still significant. 11:17:36 digged history is lost in time, since prehistoric men times 11:17:55 --- nick: cduce -> thin 11:18:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 11:18:07 since stone age, but where were no written history at that time 11:18:30 thin: see-duce ? kewl ! 11:18:48 * kc5tja learned that the word, Shaman, comes from the language that the early people living in Tungus area in Siberia spoke. 11:19:36 --- mode: thin set -t 11:19:36 --- mode: ChanServ set +t 11:19:54 --- mode: ChanServ set -t 11:20:08 kc5tja: yes, really 11:21:25 --- nick: thin -> cduce 11:21:44 ;)) 11:22:22 i'm now talking to my friend's girl how the cool thing inet is and how good thing RFC are, defining all protocols etc... 11:22:55 Cool 11:22:57 and talking to them about how i was going to one girl for free nite inet, not fu... ;))) 11:23:42 bad thing is they have very little English knoweledge 11:24:12 i say install UNIX and grep some manpages, u'll know it better than natives ;)) 11:24:50 kc5tja: what's w/ ham radio 11:25:17 did you wired your rig ? 11:25:40 You mean did I get a chance to hook up the antenna and stuff? 11:25:49 Not yet. I'm technically not moved into my final room yet. 11:26:01 yeah ! 11:26:19 Once one of our current roommates moves out, I'll commandere his room for my living space, and will then proceed to establish my radio presence there. 11:26:23 what TX power and bands does your licence permits ? 11:27:29 friend's girl is not aware of ham radio :)) she thinks it's only listen 11:27:56 cool 11:28:33 My specific license permits access on most HF and all VHF, UHF, SHF, EHF, and XHF amateur radio bands. 11:28:51 However, I spend most of my time on 40m and 10m bands. 11:29:08 i'm more interested in ones what bounce around earth :)) 11:29:13 cool 11:29:25 10m here is crapped by CB hooligans 11:29:27 Well, that'd be the HF bands. 11:29:41 but 40m is pro's choice 11:29:44 It is here too, but it's still not a useless band. 11:30:17 so, what's your TX power 11:30:21 Don't forget that there is also 12m, 15m, 20m, 30m, 75/80m, and 160m too. 11:30:38 I usually keep it fairly low: no more than 25W. But the radio is quite capable of handling 100W. 11:31:35 160m here is for beginners 11:31:49 Not here. 11:31:58 4th category - 160m only, 10 watt CW/SSB/AM 11:32:03 160m is relatively rarely used by anyone except those who like the sweet sound of AM. 11:32:13 the only AM allowed for hams here 11:32:45 heh, i hate AM for interference it causes 11:33:39 Then you should really hate FM. 11:34:11 Fm never jammed me as hard 11:34:28 AM has a 6kHz bandwidth; Narrow-band FM has a 15kHz bandwidth. 11:34:57 the poor soviet superhets are leaking parasite chans from all over the spectrum ;((( 11:35:13 Well, that's a function of the radio, not the modulation method. 11:35:27 AM is a perfectly good mode as long as you respect its bandwidth allotments. 11:35:55 at least, AM carrier produses ear-cutting whistle, FM makes sound of boiling water - not so hell annoyng 11:36:58 I take it you're not a fan of SSB then. 11:37:21 why ? 11:37:37 Because it produces the same artifacts as AM. 11:37:42 SSB is fun to play w/ BFO's tuning 11:37:56 * kc5tja can't stand SSB's constant fiddling with BFO. 11:38:35 I like it when everyone is tuned to the same frequency, but either people are lazy or their rigs all too often require re-alignment, because most sideband conversations I hear have at least one Donald Duck participant. :( 11:38:51 yeah ! 11:39:02 i say Pinoccio in this case ;)))) 11:39:32 --- quit: cduce ("gtg") 11:39:34 it's fun to turn Pinoccio to barrel voice and back by a tiny turn of a knob 11:40:21 I suppose another comparison would be to Popeye. 11:40:29 popeye ? 11:40:41 An old, highly politically incorrect cartoon character by today's standards. 11:41:17 kc, 6KHz ? 11:41:18 my friends try to explain, but i said i gave my TV to him for spares 11:41:18 But if you take a normal person speaking, and detune the BFO so that it raises in pitch, that's KINDA what Popeye sounds like when he speaks. 11:41:33 yeah ;)) 11:41:41 hi Suzanne ;)) 11:41:42 Suzanne: ?? 11:42:04 kc, which AM are you talking about that is 6Khz ? HAM 'AM' or commercial 'AM' ? 11:42:14 commercial AM is 4.5Khz dual-sideband 11:42:15 ham sure 11:42:31 so total bandwidth of 9KHz, obviously 11:42:33 Suzanne: Both. At least originally. Modern AM may be wider now-a-days. I don't know for sure. But back when I was growing up, I know it was only 6kHz bandwidth. 11:42:50 kc, commercial has been 4.5*2 since, uh, the 60s, at least 11:42:55 Suzanne: where are you from ? 11:43:04 kc, the thing thats annoying about commercial AM, tho 11:43:16 it's nice to see a girl in so tech chat 11:43:19 is europe divided the bands by 9Khz, US by 10Khz (leaving 1KHz spacing) 11:43:29 so the receivers don't fucking match up between the US and Europe 11:43:33 i like clever, bright girls ;)) 11:43:44 Suzanne: If it's 9kHz bandwidth per channel, why do they all sound limited to 6kHz? 11:43:47 serg, i am *from* the UK, i live in the US 11:44:07 kc, dunno, maybe because not much useful information is in the 3KHz to 4.5Khz audio band ? 11:44:31 you don't have your 'make it sound better harmonics' in there, and speed only extends to about 3.2-3.4 so its a pretty useless band most of the time 11:44:39 there aren't even much fundamentals in music in that band :/ 11:44:48 Suzanne: are you ham or radio fan too ? 11:45:19 serg, i studied TV/Radio among other things at college, and worked towards a HAM license, but could never get my morse up to the speed required 11:45:34 Well, at any rate, the point is, commercial or otherwise, AM is pretty limited in bandwidth. 11:45:38 at the time, i think they required 25 wpm or something insane 11:45:44 And the differences aren't all that big. :) 11:45:55 kc, well, the technology isn't ;) 11:46:07 25 wpm ? here only 5 for lowes licence 11:46:22 Serg_Penguin: It is here %now, but it wasn't always that way. 11:46:24 peguin, i think its the same in the UK now, and its certainly 5 for the basic US license 11:46:26 Goddammit. 11:46:35 but we're talking about 15 years ago or so 11:46:54 boldboldboldbold 11:47:01 also, i'm not sure we were on a 'basic license' 11:47:08 i think we were supposed to be taking 'engineer level' or some crap 11:47:22 nice ;)) one woman i had romance with, did DESIGN radios 11:47:39 penguin, we had to build AM and FM transmitters for course work :P 11:47:51 kewl ;))) 11:47:56 'quietly' of course 11:48:05 power ? 11:48:07 since the UK doesn't have the 'under x mW is ok' rules that the FCC has 11:48:13 'quietly' = illegal ? 11:48:17 50-100mW 11:48:24 yeah, quietly == illegal 11:48:41 in the UK *ANY* power level is illegal 11:48:46 Suzanne: Careful; that's true only of part 15 devices, and only on certain pre-approved bands. 11:49:11 kc, no, there is a FCC exemption on ANY radio band, if it has less than so many meters propagation, or a very low power output 11:49:32 dad of a friend's girl was making hundred watts illegal TX in young yeras ;)))) 11:49:33 I haven't seen that. 11:49:52 where i used to work we were technically in violation 11:50:05 we had a nice talk of this be4 11:50:06 Now that's funny. Two baby spiders just ballooned right into me. 11:50:09 we had a GSM network wave-guided around the building, but we didn't leak outside, so the FCC never knew 11:50:45 GSM ?? knee-made ???? 11:50:53 knee-made ? 11:51:13 rudely homebrew, "on a knee", quick'n'dirty hack 11:51:26 serg, i worked for a comms company that produced telecomms test equipment, including GSM and CDMA stuff, we had a GSM base station in the center of the building feeding a wave-guide to the offices ;) 11:51:34 no, this was a commercial base station 11:51:39 running at half-power 11:52:35 i would never agree to sit in a microwave and being silently fried alive ;(((( 11:52:51 serg, no, when it was installed, they tested it for leakage 11:53:23 the fcc would have been on us in a flash if it leaked anyway 11:54:01 we were only a couple of miles from a USN airbase, and running an unlicensed GSM base station :) 11:54:14 here if a hooligan did not jam air control or law enforcers, it's hard to put him down 11:54:35 Well, I think I'm going to head off for the time being. I need to acquire for myself some food, and then, I need to get busy hacking away on some Calc-II homework. 11:54:38 actually, USN/NASA shared access airbase, but that gives away exactly which one :P 11:54:46 (moffet field) 11:55:17 you may write complains one after one, and radio controls won't tear their butts off a chair 11:55:19 * kc5tja is away: Homework 11:55:34 i'm pretty sure that if we'd been leaking, the sub-hunters the navy flew out of there would have picked up our EM :) 11:55:43 serg, yeah, i know what you mean 11:55:57 my parents' neighbours in the UK operate a bad HAM setup :/ 11:56:27 we complained and complained about interference - i could pick up his fucking ham on my turntable's pickup ffs, but nothing ever got done 11:56:49 A lot of times, that kind of pickup is not, actually, the fault of the ham. 11:57:10 There are *tons* of incidents where the ham station is in full compliance, but it is the consumer gear that is faulty. 11:57:17 kc, this was, it was interfering on every part of the spectrum, FM radios were useless, even interfered with the TV 11:57:28 worse, here air is full of illegal cordless phones what are over mile long and push ten watts handset, base even more 11:57:41 you could tell when he was broadcasting, the TVs would all ghost 11:57:47 they fry user brain ;(( 11:58:11 Well, my 6m rig, coupled with my 6m antenna, will kill most TV sets reception, dead. 11:58:17 And it's fully compliant. 11:58:44 The only cure is twofold: antenna height, and reduced operating power. 11:58:49 kc, and that should be illegal, in a built-up neigborhood, IMO 11:58:52 This is why I never transmit my radio more than 25W. 11:59:07 oops, i gotta run, 23h 11:59:20 i'll get home after midnite again 11:59:26 Suzanne: No, I disagree. I feel the commercial equipment vendors need to stop pinching pennies and actually comply with THEIR legal requirements. 11:59:49 mAdnite in my mad rooming house w/ drunk neighbours 12:00:17 Serg_Penguin: Good luck. :/ 12:00:26 bye ! 12:00:28 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 12:00:41 Anyway, back to homework. 12:00:44 * kc5tja is away: Homework 12:06:10 --- join: jma (jma@dialup-67.31.170.153.Dial1.Denver1.Level3.net) joined #forth 12:51:18 --- join: I440r (~I440r@sdn-ap-008txhousP0188.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 13:23:48 * kc5tja is back (gone 01:23:04) 13:42:48 * kc5tja is away: homework 13:51:30 --- quit: I440r () 13:59:46 --- join: ianP (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 14:49:56 --- quit: arke (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:49:57 --- quit: jma (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:58:53 --- part: Speuler left #forth 16:07:55 --- join: Herkamir1 (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 16:18:40 * kc5tja is back (gone 02:35:51) 16:24:54 --- quit: Herkamire (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:07:24 --- quit: SDO ("Vision[0.9.6-0203]: i've been blurred!") 17:08:33 --- join: SDO (~SDO@co-trinidad1a-42.clspco.adelphia.net) joined #forth 17:34:27 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@207.111.96.129) joined #forth 17:34:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 17:34:34 hiya all 17:35:30 hello 17:35:46 terve mur! :) 17:35:50 terve 17:35:53 * mur is getting enough of irc 17:35:56 i shoudl go away 17:36:02 oh? ok 17:36:42 tooo much politics:P 17:36:45 on one channel 17:36:48 and sstupid poepl 17:36:52 here? 17:36:55 no 17:37:03 or on another channel? 17:37:33 naother netwrok too 17:37:44 i go 17:37:50 i can't write on letter i wanted to write 17:37:51 ok bye 17:37:52 email 17:37:59 irc is just making me nuts :/ 17:38:05 heh 17:38:07 maybe it is becasue of 6 hours of it in row 17:38:13 irc is like a drug :) 17:38:23 yes 17:38:32 i has similar addiciton method than to gaming 17:38:45 currently i notice some bad things 17:38:46 in me 17:38:58 i haven't irc but weekends for month now 17:39:04 * TheBlueWizard gives mur a specially prepared IRC beer, in case he misses it on hisway out :) 17:39:14 i dont drink alcohol at all :) 17:39:47 lol....me neither (I do consume alcohol on a few special occasions, like New Year) 17:40:12 i'd drink more 17:40:19 but it's not that much fun drinking alone 17:40:22 WEEP. 17:40:39 you ever try date raping a futon? it doesn't work. 17:41:13 heh....the last time I ever cvonsume alcohol was at the last New Year Eve party, nd it is just one small glass 17:41:35 and even 17:41:49 TheBlueWizard coming in irc tomorrow`? 17:42:10 probably yes 17:42:15 ah 17:42:23 though it would be in evening my time 17:42:28 i'm leaving tomorrow now - 7 hrs 17:42:38 so we wont probably seen 17:42:40 on a trip? 17:42:48 school during weeks :) 17:43:37 ah...ok (by the way, "we probably won't see each other" is the correct way) 17:43:53 i cant kist stand irc atm 17:43:56 just 17:43:58 not at all 17:44:02 i'm levain gin rc 17:44:06 laving in sec 17:44:20 hehe...I notice you queried my TIME :) 17:44:42 bye 17:44:46 bye 17:44:48 cya 17:44:53 --- quit: mur ("Murr.") 17:51:48 --- join: I440r (~I440r@sdn-ap-008txhousP0188.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 17:52:43 hiya I440r!!!! :) 17:53:08 hi :) 17:54:26 how's life? 17:55:32 not too bad :) 17:55:51 better than wehn i wasnt working that sor dsure :) 17:56:33 :) 17:56:43 grrr i realy need to learn to type :/ 17:56:44 heh 17:56:56 mine is a total bore ... but at least I am getting money :/ 17:57:58 ya 18:00:08 lol microsofts web pages SUCK 18:00:10 heh 18:01:09 the www.microsoft.com pages? 18:01:44 yes 18:02:12 i want to reinmstall msie because when i try do a windows update from this box it just sits there when i hit scan for updates 18:02:17 no network trafic no nothing 18:03:36 all its allowing me to do tho is install service pack 1 18:03:46 i dont WANT the cucking service pack AT ALL 18:03:46 fuck 18:04:55 what OS are you having? 18:05:03 2000? XP? 18:05:06 98 18:05:12 i wont touch xp 18:05:33 xp is absolutely the MOST insecure operating system ever made by anyone 18:05:45 oh...hmm...I believe M$ stopped supporting Win98 18:06:31 i dont think they can can they ? 18:06:37 yet ? 18:06:37 lemme confirm that by searching M$ website (I do have some experience with that thanks to the work :P ) 18:07:12 hehe 18:07:50 what i realy want is to totally reinstall msie here - NOT just upgrade it with the new microsoft wsecurity flaws and bug enhancement pack 18:08:19 M$ already stopped supporting MSDOS, Win95, and Win NT 4.0 is now only supported for security patching only (M$ will eventually stop supporting NT 4 altogether mid next year) 18:09:05 just download IE 6 SP1 .... but I don't know if M$ supports that for Win98 now 18:09:25 well its letting me download it heh 18:09:30 and it said for 98 too 18:09:34 i think 18:10:44 * TheBlueWizard is checking out www.microsoft.com/ie 18:11:13 yea i found that too heh 18:11:18 by the way I heard that M$ may plan to remove the free IE download in near future 18:11:36 good :) 18:11:45 so it might be wise to burn a copy of IE should you need it again upon rebuilding 18:11:52 their master-plan has failed 18:12:03 hehe 18:13:30 by the way, it is interesting to note that the current IE available for download at the link I mentioned apparently always contains all security patches...which is nice, for a change 18:15:43 hmm...M$ apparently still does support Win98 with regard to the latest version of IE (I read the overview page) 18:15:52 so you should be ok :) 18:16:13 hjeh 18:16:33 i think their security patches are designed to DECREASE security - not improve it :P 18:17:16 lol////I don't know, and I just don't care...period :) 18:18:21 heh actually neither do i 18:18:42 * TheBlueWizard is afk, making baloney sandwich 18:19:00 make me one! 18:21:57 mne too 18:21:59 -n 18:23:04 i440, just upgrade IE to Firebird :P 18:25:06 ie ;9 18:25:08 :( 18:25:28 eh ? 18:25:30 whussat 18:25:57 i440, http://www.mozilla.org/products/firebird/ 18:26:27 oooh heh 18:26:38 its not an m$ product :) 18:26:49 or is it a patch to netscape to make it more misi-ish ? 18:26:53 i440, i've been using firebird on all my machines for, umm, about 6-8 months now 18:27:11 no, its mozilla cut-down somewhat to be more lightweight 18:27:22 i use netscape for everything 18:27:25 mozilla = the code behind netscape 7 18:27:27 except windows update 18:27:36 i440, if you're using netscape 7, you're using mozilla 18:27:45 firebird is the same browser, but with less memory footprint 18:27:46 can firebird be used to do the ms update? 18:27:54 i440, never tried, tbh 18:28:02 i know netscape == mozilla 18:28:04 * TheBlueWizard is back, with his sandwich at hand 18:28:04 probably not, tho 18:28:15 MSDN won't work in anything but IE, either 18:28:24 thats what i was thunking 18:29:15 * TheBlueWizard emails another sandwich to I440r :P 18:29:42 :) 18:29:45 munch! 18:30:13 I think Win Update does require IE...never have actually investigate that...and I believe M$ will soon stop supporting Win98, if it has not already done so 18:30:22 tbw, it does, just checked 18:30:32 just gives you a link to download IE if you use another browser 18:30:53 whether it REALLY requires IE, or its just MS being bitches, is another issue, and i doubt its easy to prove either way unless you work for MS :P 18:31:28 heh "Firebird supports a large number of quality themes" 18:31:36 "thankyou for your interst in microsoft update...." is all you get 18:31:38 yeah, it supports an even larger number of shit themes 18:32:16 yeah...point taken...also, IIRC the MS03-026 tech page states that M$ stopped supporting Win98....it is definitely a bitch trying to determine what products are no longer supported 18:32:51 tbw, actually, its easy 18:33:02 if you haven't paid them money for that product within the last year, its not supported :P 18:33:47 lol...but that's obviously false, as M$ has to support WinXP for example 18:34:17 * kc5tja is away: I'm busy 18:34:17 i dunno what they're gonna do if XP has to last until Longhorn 18:34:19 * kc5tja is back (gone 00:00:02) 18:34:25