00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.09.05
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00:45:21 <gilbertdeb> aloha
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01:41:04 <gilbertbsd> damned evil twins
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12:52:30 <Herkamire> slow day here.
12:52:38 <Herkamire> anybody doin' something cool with forth?
12:52:55 <Herkamire> I need somebody to live vicariously through ;)
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13:14:26 <Herkamire> wb kc5tja :)
13:14:42 <kc5tja> re
13:14:49 * kc5tja might have to run errands later today; not sure.
13:15:12 <Herkamire> I'm glad I don't have to run errands as much as you :)
13:15:42 <Herkamire> though, I'd better get my butt over to Stop & Shop before we starve...
13:16:31 <kc5tja> Heh
13:16:37 <kc5tja> That's one of my stops today: Trader Joe's.
13:17:01 <kc5tja> Not for much though.  I still have one thing of rice left, and a suitable quantity of veggies.  What's missing is the mushrooms, so I have to pick some more up.
13:36:11 <Herkamire> heh :) I was about to whine that I don't have a spare keyboard to use to install gentoo on my new server.
13:36:31 <Herkamire> then I remembered that it takes about 20 secconds to set a password and start sshd so you don't need one anymore.
13:37:13 <Herkamire> gentoo boot CD is cool
14:01:07 <kc5tja> Heh
14:01:59 <kc5tja> Slackware still uses the same boot-up and install scripts that it did years and years ago (though they're currently under review and will be changed somewhat); so it still needs some use of the keyboard.
14:02:13 <kc5tja> But, it only takes something like 15 minutes to install completely, so it's not a big issue for me.
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14:14:05 <Speuler> g'day
14:14:41 <Speuler> not a nice mention of the wiki :)
14:14:49 <Speuler> http://www.softsynth.com/forthlinks.html
14:15:11 <Speuler> look at "general forth links" . also look who the other links there are 
14:15:26 <Speuler> s/not/got/
14:15:55 <Speuler> right under chuck moore, and above taygeta 
14:25:55 <kc5tja> Cool.
14:26:10 <kc5tja> If I ever get the time, I'll start contributing content.
14:26:35 <Speuler> yes, i think i might like that :)
14:26:46 <kc5tja> I like the idea of a Wiki better than #Forth's current site anyway; I think the rigidity of the current site isn't conducive to its use.  But I do like its news delivery service.
14:28:02 <Speuler> the wiki (kwiki) i use is preparing for wiki:sisters, that is, shared namespaces between wikis
14:28:21 <Speuler> may be a way to end the island-dom of wikis
14:28:49 <kc5tja> Well, zwiki has had something similar for quite some time.  I never really had much of an issue with it.
14:29:08 <kc5tja> But, it's not important.
14:29:30 * kc5tja has the source code to Piki, and I'm probably going to hack on that for a while when I set up my own Wiki site.
14:29:34 <Speuler> it makes detection of orphan pages much more difficult
14:30:25 <Speuler> thought about twiki, but then i went for a slim solution
14:30:45 <kc5tja> Yeah, I like minimalistic Wikis.
14:30:54 <Speuler> wiki.debian.net also runs kwiki
14:30:59 <kc5tja> I tried Moin Moin, but that was VVEERRYY complex to set up and use.
14:31:14 <Speuler> setting up kwiki is a snap
14:31:17 <kc5tja> Then I saw, "Based on PikiPiki," so I tried piki.  I never went back.
14:31:32 <Speuler> from zero to going in 30 seconds
14:31:43 <kc5tja> Yep - Piki is the same way.
14:31:48 <kc5tja> There is little to no configuration.
14:31:51 <kc5tja> One file in Piki -- Piki itself.  :)
14:32:08 <kc5tja> The CGI script is its own config file.
14:32:23 <Speuler> there's one config file in kwiki. only change i applied was adding the file name of a logo image
14:33:00 <Suzanne> speuler, how is it 'not nice' ?
14:33:05 <Suzanne> oh, 'got'
14:33:09 * Suzanne learns to read
14:33:09 <Speuler> s/not/got/
14:33:16 <kc5tja> I made a couple of changes to Piki's source to add new types of links and markup, but otherwise, it's pretty much bone stock.
14:33:21 * Speuler need to learn typing first
14:33:25 * kc5tja does want to adapt it for CVS though.
14:33:33 <Suzanne> speuler, softsynth.com? isn't that neil bradley's company ?
14:33:35 <Speuler> i run kwiki with rcs
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14:33:47 <Suzanne> if i remember his name right, that is
14:33:49 <Speuler> phil burk
14:33:52 * kc5tja prefers CVS to RCS.  It just seems easier to me.
14:34:07 <Suzanne> speuler, hmm, maybe he's an employee then?
14:34:07 <kc5tja> Anyway, BRB -- I have to fix something on my car.
14:34:08 * Suzanne shrugs
14:34:14 <Suzanne> the domain sounds familiar anyway
14:34:59 <Speuler> when he asked whether he may add the link, i didn't expect it to be between those forth heavyweights :)
14:35:58 <Suzanne> ah, no, neil is 'synthcom.com'
14:39:05 <Speuler> g'd evening crc
14:39:36 <crc> Hello Speuler
14:48:51 <kc5tja> back
14:49:48 <kc5tja> And gone again -- I'm getting hungry.  :D  Getting foodage.
14:50:03 * kc5tja is away: Mass quantities of carbohydrates and proteins.
15:15:26 * kc5tja is back (gone 00:25:23)
15:15:32 <kc5tja> Back again.
15:15:33 <Robert> Hi :)
15:16:28 <Speuler> crc: good work :)
15:16:57 <Robert> Oh, hello Speuler.
15:17:07 <kc5tja> Speuler: I'm sorry; what's the link to your Wiki again?  I lost it.  >:(
15:17:15 <Speuler> hi rob
15:17:22 <kc5tja> I thought I bookmarked it, but it's not in my bookmark list.  
15:17:27 <crc> http://www.forthfreak.net/wiki
15:17:33 <kc5tja> Thanks
15:17:36 <Speuler> it is in between here :   http://www.softsynth.com/forthlinks.html 
15:17:44 <Speuler> *g*
15:18:17 <kc5tja> Dude, that jack-hammer guy looks like he's enjoying his work way too much.  :)
15:21:00 <kc5tja> I added ForthDesignPatterns to the main index
15:21:09 <kc5tja> That is something I've always wanted to investigate.
15:21:53 <Speuler> good
15:22:08 <Speuler> i just did the first attempt of a indirect-threaded-code slideshow
15:24:10 <kc5tja> I really like the PREVIEW button.
15:24:28 <Speuler> keeps the "RecentChanges" log somewhat cleaner
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15:29:34 <Robert> Hej
15:30:17 <kc5tja> What would be nice is a little link that I can click on, that presents a pop-up window, giving a quick chart of the mark-up.
15:30:35 <kc5tja> I'm not sure hwo to get italics right now, for example.
15:30:46 <Speuler>  /italics/
15:31:08 <Speuler> http://www.forthfreak.net/wiki/index.cgi?KwikiHelpIndex
15:31:18 <Speuler> or http://www.forthfreak.net/wiki/index.cgi?SandBox
15:31:47 <Speuler> those links are on "Home"
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15:34:34 <kc5tja> Yes, but it's nice to have a quick reference chart for when you're trying to put in "real" content.
15:35:17 <rk> y0
15:35:22 <Speuler> the markup docs in sandbox i have simplified already, especially the links
15:35:27 <rk> guess what im doing the rest of the weekend.
15:35:28 <kc5tja> Check out ForthDesignPatterns -- see if that makes sense.
15:35:44 <kc5tja> rk: Wasting it on something you have to do?
15:37:04 <kc5tja> That's quite often what I always end up doing, somehow.  :)
15:38:08 <Speuler> kc5tja, won't help if *I* think it makes sense .. wikis tend to be consensus driven systems, after all
15:40:03 <kc5tja> Yes, but if my initial idea doesn't make sense, then it's entirely possible to take it in the wrong direction by someone who doesn't know what I'm trying to get at.
15:40:25 <kc5tja> It's like open source -- you have to have something concrete before you switch to bazaar-style development.
15:40:36 <kc5tja> Otherwise, the finished product is inevitably wholesale NOT what you intended.
15:40:50 <kc5tja> (I know -- I tried)
15:43:13 <rk> kc5tja naah. after i finish my homework ...
15:43:25 <rk> Eat. Sleep. Code. Urinate.
15:43:27 <rk> thats it
15:45:41 <kc5tja> Heheh
15:46:12 <rk> XD
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17:29:23 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
17:29:41 <kc5tja> re tbw
17:29:49 <TheBlueWizard> hiya kc5tja
17:31:19 <kc5tja> Wow.  Looking over the JPB Forth website, linked from Speuler's wiki.
17:31:25 <kc5tja> That's a neat little computer system he's got going there.
17:31:37 <kc5tja> Very much like the computer system I want to build around the 65816 (he's using a 68030)
17:32:03 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...interesting
17:32:10 <kc5tja> 128 color display though.
17:32:16 <kc5tja> Not exactly sure how he pulls that off.  :)
17:32:29 <kc5tja> But it appears to be direct-mapped palette (e.g., 2 red, 2 green, 2 blue, and 1 intensity bit)
17:32:36 <TheBlueWizard> heh...
17:32:47 <kc5tja> The results are pretty cool all things considered.
17:32:55 <TheBlueWizard> neat
17:32:57 <kc5tja> System software is written entirely in Forth, and the official programming language for the system is, of course, Forth.
17:33:13 <TheBlueWizard> :)))
17:33:21 * kc5tja gets a URL...
17:33:47 <kc5tja> http://jpb.forth.free.fr/Anglais/encadrement.html
17:35:14 <kc5tja> His system has a lot of 8-bit tampons in it apparently.  :D
17:35:23 <kc5tja> I guess "tampon" in French means "buffer" in English.
17:37:49 * TheBlueWizard hasn't checked it out yet; am busy reading web articles :)
17:44:36 <Robert> Hmm.
17:44:45 <Robert> Someone posted a link to a really sick website.
17:44:47 <Robert> http://www.capmag.com/
17:45:00 <Robert> The scary part is that they're serious.
17:47:57 * TheBlueWizard checks out JPB website...interessante :)
17:50:54 <TheBlueWizard> which part(s) of www.capmag.com is sick?  It's hard to tell...
17:50:59 <kc5tja> Robert: Yeah.  Americanism at its finest.  :(
17:51:09 <kc5tja> Wholesale irresponsibility in the name of the all-encompassing dollar.
17:51:32 <TheBlueWizard> ah..."Money is God"...gotcha...yeah, sick
17:51:35 <kc5tja> But, be that as it may, at least they're honest.
17:53:20 * TheBlueWizard never have seen this website before
18:00:34 <Robert> They're peace-lovers, it seems.
18:00:36 <Robert> "The United States must end all support for a Palestinian state, cease-fires and peace agreements, and instead encourage Israel to destroy all Palestinian terrorists."
18:01:37 * TheBlueWizard wonders how thin, being an ultraliberterian, would take to this website :)
18:01:37 <kc5tja> Hitler was also a peace-lover.
18:02:23 <TheBlueWizard> Especially with this quotation by Ayn Rand planted at the top of the page
18:02:29 <kc5tja> Yeah
18:02:42 <kc5tja> This just goes to show you how fucked up the right-wing is.
18:03:08 <kc5tja> They're very sick people.
18:03:52 <TheBlueWizard> heh...note that I do have bits and pieces of "conservative" views, not that I'm conservative (I consider myself just a radical...that's the best I can describe myself)
18:04:17 <kc5tja> It's good to maintain a balance of conservatism and liberalism.
18:04:54 <kc5tja> This site, however, promulgates conservatism to the utter exclusion of any liberal ideas.  100%, total, unadulterated capitalism.
18:05:18 <kc5tja> Which, if allowed to happen, will only result in a totalitarian state.
18:05:31 <kc5tja> They call us the leftist, communist pinko community.
18:05:45 <kc5tja> but in reality, it is they who are the totalitarians!
18:07:05 <TheBlueWizard> um, this website elevates individualism....totalitarianism elevates state and denies the notions found in individualism philosophy
18:07:18 <kc5tja> My ass.
18:07:27 <kc5tja> I didn't say communist.
18:07:30 <kc5tja> I didn't say socialist.
18:07:34 <kc5tja> I said totalitarian.
18:07:38 <kc5tja> E.g., dictatorship.
18:07:53 <kc5tja> Where is the individuality in a marketplace controlled by an utter monopoly?
18:08:05 <kc5tja> What individuality has Microsoft allowed in the PC operating system market?
18:08:06 <kc5tja> None.
18:08:26 <kc5tja> What individuality did Standard Oil allow back in the late 1800s?  None.
18:08:31 <kc5tja> The list goes on.
18:08:49 <kc5tja> For one that directly affects me, what individuality did Pacific Bell permit in the internet service industry?  None.
18:09:09 <kc5tja> PacBell (now SBC) undercut our prices by huge margins, taking losses themselves in the process.
18:09:21 <kc5tja> But they knew that we'd go out of business long before they even approached the red.
18:09:34 <kc5tja> Now they're raking in the cash on DSL, and I'm still looking for a job.
18:09:38 <kc5tja> So where is the individuality in that?
18:10:16 <kc5tja> Economy without responsibility is just as bad as gas chambers and concentration camps.
18:10:17 <Robert> That only proves you're too stupid and worthless to be worth any food or other supplies, according to their model.
18:10:33 <kc5tja> Robert: Precisely.  And I know that that's not true.
18:10:48 <kc5tja> I can out-smart half the people in the already established industry.
18:10:58 <kc5tja> But what good does it do me?  Nothing.
18:11:11 <kc5tja> It's not what you know.  It's all about who you know.
18:11:11 <TheBlueWizard> ok...make that corporate totalitarianism, rather than the classic (state) totalitarianism ... better now?
18:11:12 <Robert> Right, and even if you weren't smart, I wouldn't like you to starve either.
18:11:46 <kc5tja> TheBlueWizard: Not entirely.  If they had it their way, the two forms of totalitarianism could not be distinguished.
18:12:05 <kc5tja> TheBlueWizard: Consider that most countries today already feel that "Americanism" is destroying their cultures at an alarming rate.
18:12:33 <kc5tja> Many countries express strong desires to be able to vote in our elections, because the wreckless behaviors of our republican presidents have affected their lives so strongly.
18:12:35 <TheBlueWizard> This corporate totalitarism is indeed a growing problem...cf. SCO lawsuit, DirecTV, RIAA, MPAA, BSA, and so on...see the pattern where they try to control people
18:13:40 <kc5tja> I feel that there needs to be a balance between socialism and capitalism.  Somewhere in the middle, there is a sweet spot of prosperity.  Having just one or the other is not a long-term solution.
18:17:25 <kc5tja> For those who are interested, I strongly, strongly recommend reading the book "Lies and the Lying Liars who Tell Them", by Al Franken.
18:17:45 <kc5tja> The subtitle, "A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right" doesn't do the book justice.
18:18:45 <kc5tja> This will put things into perspective on the whole "liberal bias" issue regarding the media (which is about as liberally biased as I am to giving Bill Gates a big wet kiss).
18:18:50 <TheBlueWizard> it's tricky, yeah...and now regarding the website's pro-Israel (advocacy for exterminating all "Palestian terrorists") can easily play into ultraright's (and by that I mean those even more extreme than Arik Sharon, say) hands...I wouldn't be surprised if the Kach party get relegitimatized (background: it advocates the complete explusion of all non-Jews from Israel)
18:19:54 <kc5tja> And people often wonder why Nazi-ism is more popular than ever in America...
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18:30:57 <TheBlueWizard> well, gotta go now...bye all
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19:05:12 <kc5tja> There is nothing I enjoy more than feeding pestulent insects to my plants.   Bwaahahahah!
19:21:06 <kc5tja> (in case you're wondering, I possess a couple of Long-leaf Sundew plants)
19:29:27 <fridge> they are incapable of feeding themselves?
19:36:35 <kc5tja> They're quite capable of feeding themselves, provided the local insect-life are attracted to them.
19:36:46 <kc5tja> However, in Southern California, not many insects are attracted to them.
19:36:59 <kc5tja> So I periodically (every other day or so) feed it one or two ants.
19:40:13 <arke> y0 d00dz0rs
19:42:24 <Klaw> i missed the jewscussion
19:43:20 <kc5tja> re arke, klaw
20:16:44 <Herkamire> I wish I had a carniverous plant
20:17:57 <arke> i wish i had a girlfriend.
20:18:02 <arke> preferably a programmer :)
20:18:35 <kc5tja> Heh
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20:21:13 <arke> I440r: y0
20:21:15 <arke> i wish i had a girlfriend.
20:21:17 <arke> preferably a programmer :)
20:21:30 <arke> and i could go into much more detail than that
20:21:32 <I440r> thats what ive been saying for years!
20:21:47 * arke eyes Suzanne ... "Maybe i shouldnt go into the details tho."
20:22:23 <Herkamire> I can only think of two female computer geeks that I've met
20:23:05 <arke> i have met none in real life :(
20:23:19 * kc5tja has met only one in real life.
20:23:27 <arke> i want one.
20:23:30 <arke> *sniff*
20:23:38 <kc5tja> And she married a total geek star to boot.  Total match made in heaven.  And really cool bunch of people too.
20:23:48 <Herkamire> *pst* they only come out at night ;)
20:24:12 * arke looks at the clock ... 2025 .... sw33t!
20:24:16 * arke looks around
20:24:35 <Suzanne> sorry, i was playing my guitar
20:24:37 <kc5tja> arke: West-coaster, eh?
20:24:47 <I440r> what were you playing ?
20:24:47 <arke> kc5tja: y0
20:25:00 <arke> programmer ... plays guitar ...............
20:25:09 <Suzanne> i440, something i THOUGHT was original
20:25:21 <Suzanne> but on second thoughts, i'd have metallica's legal team on me in a second if i tried to record it :/
20:25:23 <I440r> lol
20:25:51 <Suzanne> i440, lets just say, it bore an uncanny resemblance to Call of the Ktulu
20:26:04 <arke> *sigh* yes. a programmer girlfriend who plays guitar. how much better can it get? XD *sigh*
20:26:07 <Suzanne> the intro, at least
20:26:13 <I440r> heh
20:26:28 <I440r> a programmer gf who plays guitar would want a programmer bf who plays guitar:P
20:26:41 <Suzanne> i440, if i want to play the heavier part of Ktulu, i'll stick to playing Hanger 18 TYVM
20:26:50 <arke> ME!!! ME!!! TAKE ME!!!
20:27:00 <Suzanne> i440, no she wouldn't, trust me, not if she had experience
20:27:08 <I440r> im more into SRV/Clapton/satriani :)
20:27:15 <Suzanne> she'd realise the first thing that happens is her guitars start to 'migrate'
20:27:45 <I440r> that would be theft - i for one wouldnt steal :)
20:28:06 <Suzanne> i440, not if  you got married, its not
20:28:14 <I440r> lol
20:28:19 <kc5tja> Ktulu -- sounds a lot like Cthulu.  :D
20:28:19 <I440r> PANIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
20:28:27 <Suzanne> kc, yeah, except spelt wrong
20:28:36 <kc5tja> Probably to avoid legal battles.
20:28:44 <Suzanne> kc, iirc, they've always claimed Ktulu is a 'seperate demon' tho
20:29:00 <Suzanne> kc, erm, yeah, cos its not like Lovecraft's work is PD or anyting :P
20:29:03 <arke> so .. no programmer guitar-playing gf for me, huh?
20:29:27 <kc5tja> Heh
20:29:41 <kc5tja> I don't touch musical instruments -- I wouldn't know what to do with them.
20:29:51 <I440r> you liar :)
20:29:56 <Suzanne> kc, i suspect its less to do with copyright, and more to do with Dave/Kirk/James/whoever being high as a fucking kite
20:30:05 <arke> how about a programmer non-guitar-playing gf?
20:30:36 <Suzanne> (remember, dave was still in the band when Ktulu was written, hence its resemblance to Hanger 18 :)
20:31:36 <kc5tja> I440r: I'm serious.  I can pretend I know how to play a guitar, but put drum sticks in my hand, or a violin, or . . . I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing.  :)
20:31:37 * Suzanne listens to the S&M version of Ktulu just for the hell of it
20:31:56 <arke> drums is way easy
20:32:01 <I440r> oh - i can accept that heh
20:32:03 <Suzanne> arke, hitting them is
20:32:04 <kc5tja> arke: Yeah, like hell.
20:32:05 <I440r> i suck big time :)
20:32:14 <arke> well
20:32:17 <Suzanne> arke, hitting them in the right sequence, and at the right time, and consistantly, is a different matter entirely
20:32:31 * kc5tja lives with two professional musicians, both drummers (one full-time), and I can tell you from experience, it is NOT easy.
20:32:35 <kc5tja> It's not even hard.
20:32:38 <kc5tja> It's utterly impossible.
20:32:44 <arke> timing has always been a problem, i always get it like 1/128th of a second wrong, on any instrument
20:32:51 <Suzanne> kc, male or female drummers ?
20:32:55 <kc5tja> Suzanne: Male.
20:33:01 <kc5tja> Like any female would like to live with me.. :D
20:33:05 <Suzanne> kc, shame, otherwise i'd suggest making an advance :P
20:33:11 <Suzanne> female drummers have incredible thighs
20:33:12 <I440r> lol
20:33:12 <kc5tja> "What a DORK!!"  I can hear it now.. :D
20:33:15 <I440r> a 3some :)
20:33:35 * kc5tja isn't interested in thighs -- I'm interested in what's in their heads and hearts.
20:33:38 <arke> kc5tja: i hear that all the time. you have no idea how rustrating it is.
20:33:40 <I440r> i could handle living with two sexy female drummers - if such a thing exists
20:33:43 <Herkamire> anybody running linux on a P3? if so could you run "cat /proc/cpuinfo" and /msg me the cpu family model and model name? thanks
20:33:50 <Suzanne> kc, beyond that, strong thighs == fun
20:33:59 <kc5tja> Suzanne: I'm sure.
20:34:00 <arke> Herkamire: i got an AMD P3 remake ...
20:34:04 <Suzanne> herk, i'm not right now...
20:34:23 <Suzanne> herk, but, iirc, it IDs as a PentiumPro family 6
20:34:32 <arke> Herkamire: that would help tho, would it?
20:34:32 <kc5tja> arke: Athlons don't count.  :)
20:35:33 <Suzanne> ah, maybe not
20:35:37 <Suzanne> cos my P2 ID's as:
20:35:52 <Suzanne> processor       : 1
20:35:52 <Suzanne> vendor_id       : GenuineIntel
20:35:52 <Suzanne> cpu family      : 6
20:35:53 <Suzanne> model           : 5
20:35:53 <Suzanne> model name      : Pentium II (Deschutes)
20:37:36 * Suzanne sighs as DNS goes tits ass over head on OS X :/
20:37:55 <Suzanne> [suzanne@g4 tmp]$ host p2serv
20:37:55 <Suzanne> p2serv.crysalis.com has address 192.168.254.201
20:37:55 <Suzanne> [suzanne@g4 tmp]$ ssh p2serv
20:37:55 <Suzanne> ssh: p2serv: no address associated with hostname.
20:38:11 <Suzanne> so wrong on so many levels
20:38:20 --- join: rk (~chris@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth
20:38:26 <arke> rk: wtf?
20:38:40 <arke> rk: why the hell are you here all of a sudden? :P
20:39:19 <rk> :D
20:39:21 <rk> arke its magic()
20:39:38 <kc5tja> ??
20:39:42 * arke is now done with role playing
20:39:49 <Herkamire> arke: would you preffer he slid slowly into the room?
20:39:58 <arke> Herkamire: probably.
20:40:17 * Herkamire eases into the room
20:40:26 <rk> aww. gimme a break. you want me to WD40 the door before i come in too so that nobody notices?
20:40:34 <arke> yup.
20:40:34 * Suzanne watches the room ease into herkamire and acts scared
20:40:42 <arke> 0.0
20:40:51 <kc5tja> I don't ease into anybody.
20:40:58 <kc5tja> Herkamire or otherwise.
20:41:16 * arke needs somebody to ease into
20:41:30 * rk does too.
20:41:42 <Suzanne> there you go, you two
20:41:49 <Suzanne> you seem 'incredibly'  close physically too
20:41:55 <arke> yes, very
20:42:03 <rk> arke has a good hand :P
20:42:10 <arke> XD
20:42:25 <arke> so does rk
20:42:32 <rk> aww, im flattered
20:42:38 <Herkamire> tasty!
20:43:03 <arke> unfortunately, it is impossible to marry yourself...
20:43:10 <kc5tja> My CD-ROM drive is having one hell of a good time with this one Genesis disc I have..
20:43:20 <arke> XD
20:44:03 <Suzanne> arke, i dunno, there's always arkansas
20:44:27 <arke> Bah.
20:44:31 * arke is not trailer trash
20:45:02 --- quit: rk (Remote closed the connection)
20:45:20 <Suzanne> arke, thats not what rk told me
20:45:48 * kc5tja rips and encodes The Dividing Line -- hoping that the system will properly reconstruct the music file from the failed attempts by the CD-ROM drive to read an otherwise perfectly good audio CD.
20:45:49 <arke> Suzanne: oh really?
20:46:01 <arke> Suzanne: well, rk is a selfish homosexual bitch then!
20:46:06 <Suzanne> kc, isn't that 'recent' genesis ?
20:46:14 <kc5tja> The very last disc they ever made.
20:46:17 <Suzanne> and if so, doesn't that make 'perfectly good audio CD' an oxymoron ?
20:46:20 <kc5tja> :(
20:46:25 <kc5tja> Nope.
20:46:35 <arke> hrm ... where did he go ...
20:46:37 <kc5tja> Because it's head and shoulders better than the more recent Phil Collins Genesis discs.
20:46:57 <Suzanne> don't get me wrong... give me tLlDoB or Genesis, and i'll be happy
20:47:02 <kc5tja> Much more powerful, more innovative (though not as innovative as I'd like), . . .
20:47:04 <Suzanne> but, well, they got a bit shitty near the end
20:47:33 <Suzanne> joy! blackhawks flying around at midnight
20:47:35 <arke> hrm .. its seems that rk is having some xon probs
20:47:55 <kc5tja> arke: Tell him to stop hitting CTRL-S and CTRL-Q so often then.
20:48:12 <arke> kc5tja: eh?
20:48:15 <Suzanne> kc, see, that is why you're alone on a friday night
20:48:20 <Suzanne> geeky jokes like that!
20:48:37 <kc5tja> CTRL-S produces the ASCII code for XOFF, and CTRL-Q produces the ASCII code for XON.
20:48:44 <Suzanne> arke, xon/xoff, ctrl-q/ctrl-s
20:48:49 <arke> *sigh* hehe
20:48:53 <arke> lemme tell him
20:48:54 <Suzanne> arke, a terrible joke, even by geek standards
20:48:56 <arke> alright, told him
20:49:08 <kc5tja> Suzanne: You don't understand -- I'm looking for a geekgirl...
20:49:15 <Suzanne> kc, see above
20:49:17 <arke> Suzanne: and i am too.
20:49:53 <kc5tja> I'm not hip in this society, and I never will be.  There's no point in trying to change that aspect of myself.  Otherwise, I'd have to go through 28 years of growing up with a life I never had, just to "catch up" to where I'd be nwo if I had.
20:50:07 <arke> heh
20:50:10 <Suzanne> arke, i'm not sure impersonating a schizophrenic with MPD is the right approach :P
20:50:16 <kc5tja> And by then, I'll be 56, and there's no useful hope for me then.
20:50:32 <arke> Suzanne: heh, it was a joke XD
20:50:42 <Suzanne> arke, thats what they ALL say
20:50:43 * arke does some math
20:50:47 <Suzanne> right after killing their family
20:50:51 <arke> Suzanne: hey, maybe i am?
20:51:09 <arke> my brother already is dead.
20:51:17 <arke> killed him with a hammerblow to the ribs
20:51:32 <Suzanne> gah, thats close to how my dad's best friend died :/
20:51:32 <arke> ..or not ...
20:51:40 <Suzanne> (his wife beat his skull in with a hammer)
20:51:52 <arke> Suzanne: oh, how fun
20:52:03 * arke considers becoming gay
20:52:04 <Suzanne> bitch got away with it, too
20:52:06 <arke> j/k
20:52:13 <arke> j/k
20:52:56 <Suzanne> you know, when people insist on pointing something 'is a joke' more than once, i become suspicious :P
20:53:07 <kc5tja> j/k
20:53:07 <kc5tja> j/k
20:53:08 <kc5tja> j/k
20:53:08 <kc5tja> j/k
20:53:11 <kc5tja> ;)
20:53:12 <kc5tja> j/k
20:53:13 --- join: I440r-work (~x@sdn-ap-007txhousP0230.dialsprint.net) joined #forth
20:53:17 <Suzanne> kc, i was already suspicious of YOU
20:53:17 <arke> 0,0
20:53:23 <kc5tja> Heh
20:53:40 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:53:45 <kc5tja> OOOooo!  My CD-ROM drive is making all sorts of nice sounds....  But it's still chugging away on the track.
20:53:54 <arke> im too much into certain "protrusions of the upper body" to be gay.
20:53:57 * kc5tja thinks it's time to get a new CD-ROM drive...
20:54:05 <Suzanne> kc, heh, maybe you'll have the fun i did with a FNM CD a year ago
20:54:13 <Suzanne> cdparanoia took 18 days to rip it
20:54:25 <kc5tja> But it got all the audio, right?
20:54:29 <kc5tja> That's what's important to me.
20:54:29 <arke> my drive reads like 10kb/sec
20:54:38 <arke> and melts the CD's while its at it
20:54:39 <Suzanne> kc, all but one track, and that was only midnight cowboy anyway ;P
20:55:01 <Suzanne> and that was mostly because THAT far out on the disc's edge there was no substrate left
20:55:17 <Suzanne> (it was one of the badly pressed FNM CDs where the substrate dissolves after a couple of years)
20:55:33 <kc5tja> Well, I'm letting my drive hack away on this disc because I can't afford to spend more cash on getting a new disc.  And I know it can read it, given enough time.  AND I'd like to copy this disc into MP3 format anyway.
20:55:38 <kc5tja> May as well do it now.
20:55:39 --- join: I440r (~x@sdn-ap-007txhousP0230.dialsprint.net) joined #forth
20:55:44 --- quit: I440r-work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:56:35 <Suzanne> btw, if i offend anyone, i apologise in advance
20:56:40 <Suzanne> i'm in a bit of a weird/crappy mood today
20:56:58 <Suzanne> my life is falling apart, and some credit-card fraudster ripped off the last $1k from the bank account
20:57:10 <fridge> erk
20:57:22 <kc5tja> YAY!  Rippage is complete.  Encoding now.
20:57:24 <arke> .
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20:58:22 <Suzanne> ./timer 120 false morning gilbert
20:58:24 <kc5tja> Suzanne: Hey, I've been unemployed for almost a year now, and without prospect of attaining regular employment in the near future.  I have $1000 to pay off by the end of September.
20:58:30 <gilbertdeb> aloha Suzanne
20:58:56 <gilbertdeb> Customers who bought titles by et al. also bought titles by these authors:
20:59:07 <gilbertdeb> absurdities from amazon ^
20:59:16 <kc5tja> Cool.  :)
21:02:13 <Suzanne> oh yeah, great
21:02:23 * Suzanne stares at a dodgy dir of palm apps '354MB'
21:02:32 <Suzanne> those'll all fit in my crappy VII i'm sure
21:03:04 <kc5tja> Pick and choose wisely... :)
21:03:15 <kc5tja> I'm sure that there is a massive duplication of functionality in that 354MB.
21:03:28 <kc5tja> Well, I'm pleased to report the rip was 100% successful.
21:03:34 <Suzanne> if i'd have $20 earlier, there was a IIIc on ebay that went for $19 :/
21:03:39 <kc5tja> Not a glitch in the encoded audio at all, other than the normal MP3 artifacts.
21:04:00 <kc5tja> Man, I wonder what was wrong with it.
21:04:13 <Suzanne> kc, probably lots of errors, and the ECC worked
21:04:29 <Suzanne> kc, tho, cdparanoia also does shit like interpolating samples if there are unrecoverable errors
21:04:42 * kc5tja nods
21:04:46 <kc5tja> grip uses cdparanoia.
21:04:55 --- join: I440r-work (~x@sdn-ap-007txhousP0230.dialsprint.net) joined #forth
21:04:55 <kc5tja> But, I don't hear any interpolation.
21:04:56 <Suzanne> as i said, it took 18 days on my FNM cd
21:05:04 <Suzanne> kc, i didn't on the FNM rips, either
21:05:20 <kc5tja> But the CD-ROM did a LOT of track-0 seeking during the rip of this track.
21:05:21 --- quit: I440r (Connection reset by peer)
21:05:27 <kc5tja> (it reads the rest of the CD just fine)
21:05:33 <Suzanne> kc, that'd be the drive resetting after an unrecoverable error
21:05:40 * kc5tja nods
21:05:48 --- join: Sonarman (~matt@adsl-64-169-92-240.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth
21:06:03 <kc5tja> It kind of reminded me of the old Commodore 1541 drive... :)
21:06:10 <Suzanne> kc, only quicker :P
21:06:20 <kc5tja> And quieter.
21:06:20 <kc5tja> :)
21:06:29 <gilbertdeb> http://unix.rulez.org/~calver/video/frustrating_job.mpeg
21:06:31 <Suzanne> yay for the disk drive that takes longer than tape! :)
21:06:43 <kc5tja> Hey, it didn't take THAT long.
21:06:54 <Suzanne> kc, a few games were faster on the tape version than the disk version
21:07:06 <kc5tja> I never encountered that particular problem.
21:07:19 <Suzanne> kc, mostly because turboloaders on the tape had cut down tape load times, but turboloaders on disk hadn't 'got there yet'
21:07:19 <kc5tja> Most of the games I used were either rather straight-forward, OR, had a disk speed-up engine built-in.
21:07:29 <Suzanne> kc, iirc, green beret was one of them
21:07:36 <kc5tja> Never played that.
21:07:40 <kc5tja> But I was never really into games.
21:07:44 <kc5tja> I never had the patience for them.
21:07:44 <Suzanne> iirc, took like 3 minutes from tape
21:07:46 * kc5tja still doesn't.
21:07:46 <Suzanne> and 10 from disk
21:08:48 * kc5tja misses the intelligent peripherals from Commodore.
21:08:54 <kc5tja> USB is almost there, but not quite.
21:09:47 <Suzanne> well, USB's problem isn't the standard(s)
21:09:53 <kc5tja> Firewire is, basically, PCI-ish.  Still not exactly the type of thing I'm most comfortable with (but I admit, it's damn cool technology)
21:09:56 <Suzanne> its the idiots making junk for it that don't follow the standards
21:10:17 <kc5tja> Suzanne: Fully agreed.  But even when using the standards, it still sucks because you still need all those retarded drivers and whatnot on it.
21:10:21 <Suzanne> like, oh, printers that don't follow the standard printer class
21:10:24 <kc5tja> But at least it's better than most other alternatives.
21:10:35 <Suzanne> kc, you shouldn't, really
21:10:47 <Suzanne> there are enough standard classes to cover most everything
21:10:51 <fridge> what alternatives?
21:10:58 <Herkamire> ok, I've got Gentoo bootstrapping. time for bed :)
21:11:01 <Suzanne> its just hardly anyone follows the printer or modem class standards
21:11:04 --- quit: Herkamire ("goodnight all")
21:11:12 <kc5tja> fridge: Devices hooked to PS/2 ports, auto-configuration over EPP, and other bandaid solutions.
21:11:27 <Suzanne> kc, ADB was ok
21:11:35 <Suzanne> but then, ADB was kind of 'USB, in 1987' ;P
21:11:40 <kc5tja> I think USB was inspired by ADB to a large extent.
21:12:04 <Suzanne> the only problem with ADB is that its not officially hot-pluggable
21:12:18 * kc5tja still likes the old HP-IL interface though.
21:12:20 <Suzanne> that, and i think you're only limited to a fairly small node count
21:14:04 <kc5tja> I liked HP-IL for several reasons.
21:14:25 <kc5tja> First, it was a proper loop interface -- each device had two ports, which were always used: In and Out.
21:14:57 <kc5tja> The cabling went from computer to the peripheral's IN port, from that peripherals OUT port to the next IN port, etc. until it came back to the computer's IN port.
21:15:08 <kc5tja> Autoconfiguration was inherent and simple.
21:15:14 <Suzanne> hmm, sounds a lot like a token ring
21:15:19 <kc5tja> And because it was based on the IEEE-488 command-set, each device was largely autonomous.
21:15:49 <kc5tja> There are many similarities, yes.
21:16:31 <kc5tja> The critical difference being you didn't need switches or hubs, it was easy to support in home-brew electronics, and more.
21:16:59 * kc5tja even came up with a scheme to enable immensely high throughputs (several megabits per second) in the system too.
21:18:25 <Suzanne> is it related to HP-GPIB ?
21:18:41 <kc5tja> It's their serial equivalent of GPIB.
21:18:47 <kc5tja> The command set was exactly the same.
21:18:53 * Suzanne nods
21:19:50 <Suzanne> and on that note...
21:19:52 <Suzanne> crap!
21:20:00 <kc5tja> Device addressing differed only in that devices didn't have DIP switches to select addresses; their address was determined by where it appeared in the device loop (e.g., autoconfiguring).  Devices had "device classes" (kind of like USB does), so it always knew which devices were printers, etc.
21:20:04 <Suzanne> tek finally discontinued the FFT module for my scope :(
21:20:22 <kc5tja> What scope do you have?
21:20:45 <Suzanne> TDS1002 i think
21:20:45 * kc5tja has a TDS-210 somewhere in storage at the moment, which I got so I can do some ham radio homebrewing.
21:21:07 <Suzanne> actually, it might be a TDS-2xx series
21:21:19 <Suzanne> i can't remember without going and looking, but the TDM modules are the same
21:21:35 * kc5tja nods
21:23:59 <Suzanne> actually, yes, its a TDS210 too
21:24:20 <Suzanne> and TDS2MM has indeed been discontinued :(
21:25:55 <Suzanne> as far as i can tell, the only difference between the TDS210 and the 1002 is that the 1002 doesn't electrocute the operator :P
21:26:36 <kc5tja> I've never been electrocuted by my o'scope.
21:27:03 <Suzanne> kc, you never got the recall notice ?
21:27:24 <Suzanne> the TDS2xx were recalled, because a whole bunch of them had bad PSUs that 'could electrocute the operator under certain circumstances'
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21:33:49 <kc5tja> No.
21:34:02 <Suzanne> well, they were :P
21:34:20 <Suzanne> i got a nice big letter telling me to go check my serial number using their online thingymajig to see if i had a model with the bad PSU
21:34:22 <kc5tja> How does one know if the model they have is the one recalled?
21:34:24 <Suzanne> (i didn't)
21:34:37 <Suzanne> kc, at the time, they had a online serial number check, i bet its not there anymore :/
21:35:06 <kc5tja> Well, I'm sure it'd be fine for ham radio and ditial electronics stuff.
21:35:20 <kc5tja> digital even
21:35:29 <Suzanne> as long as you're dealing with fairly sane voltages, yeah
21:36:24 <kc5tja> The thing is, I've always known that oscopes are easy to damage or electrocute because of how the ground on the o'scope inputs are handled (it's a floating ground most of the time)
21:36:30 <Suzanne> iirc, it was something like, if you went over the max rated voltage (1000v isn't it?) some cap broke down and the ground on the probe could be floating at wall AC
21:36:46 <kc5tja> So one generally doesn't want to hook up an o'scope to, say, a switching power supply output transformer.  :)
21:37:31 <kc5tja> Apparently, this model of o'scope was supposedly designed to combat that problem.
21:38:00 <Suzanne> it would seem so
21:38:45 <Suzanne> anyway, other than the recall, they were nice scopes
21:39:13 <kc5tja> Yes, I'm very, very happy with mine.
21:39:28 <Suzanne> gah
21:39:36 <Suzanne> there is one major difference from teh 1002 to the 210
21:39:46 <Suzanne> the 1002 has the fucking TDS2MM built-in as standard :/
21:40:37 <Suzanne> *and* is the same price as the TDS210 was *GRRRRR*
21:40:51 <kc5tja> http://www.tektronix.com/Measurement/cgi-bin/framed.pl?Document=/Measurement/programs/safety/tds200/recall.html&FrameSet=oscilloscopes
21:40:57 <kc5tja> It's an ongoing recall, apparently.
21:41:04 <Suzanne> hats the one
21:41:18 <Suzanne> originally, they just had a crappy 'enter your serial number so we can check it'
21:41:27 <Suzanne> and it didn't work on mine, said it was an invalid serial number
21:41:37 <kc5tja> Heh
21:41:40 <Suzanne> but a couple of weeks after the recall notice, they replaced it with that page with the numbers
21:41:53 <Suzanne> mine is B06 something iirc
21:41:57 <kc5tja> Probably too many people complained about bad serial numbers.  :)
21:43:16 <Suzanne> the only thing about the TDS2xx/TDS1xxx series that annoyed me...
21:43:30 <Suzanne> is that with its size, you'd have expected them to sell an optional battery pack, but they didn't
21:43:52 <kc5tja> What annoys me is the backlight. 
21:43:58 <kc5tja> It doesn't always light first time.
21:44:05 <Suzanne> hmm, never had that problem
21:45:01 <kc5tja> I think it might have a bad flourescent light ballast.
21:46:00 <Suzanne> hmm, is it flourescent ?
21:46:07 <kc5tja> It is in mine.
21:46:22 <kc5tja> If not, it's electroluminescent, in which case, they'd still use a ballast.
21:46:22 <Suzanne> i always assumed the LCD was the same as the one on my sampler, a sharp (iirc) 320x200 w/EL backlit
21:47:15 <Suzanne> well, 5V 60Hz to 400V 100Hz inverter :)
21:47:51 --- quit: gilbertdeb (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
21:48:09 --- quit: gilbertbsd ("Told you I could quit any time!")
21:48:57 <kc5tja> Spider A just got his ass kicked by spider B, at half A's size.  :D
21:49:27 <Suzanne> ?
21:49:48 <kc5tja> Two spiders had a run-in with each other.
21:49:56 <kc5tja> And Spider A is now about to die.
21:50:03 <Suzanne> erm, oh
21:51:10 <kc5tja> Spider B can continue living -- it has decided wisely not to encroach towards my personal space.
21:51:42 * Suzanne hands kc the DVD of 'arachnophobia' :P
21:52:12 <kc5tja> Not necessary.  I basically live that life every day here.  I have currently about five spiders who have taken up residence in my room.
21:52:45 <kc5tja> They stay up in the rafters, and make good use of the moths that my flourescent desk lamp seems to attract.
21:53:21 <kc5tja> I don't kill them unless they decide to get bold.  :)
21:54:11 <Suzanne> the problem here, is that most of the spiders i see, are black widows, brown widows and brown recluses
21:54:32 <Suzanne> which i don't particularly like the idea of them roaming around while i'm sleeping :P
21:55:11 <kc5tja> I've seen a couple of black widows here, but they're mostly daddy longlegs (the spider kind, not the non-web-spinning kind) and occasionally a few jumping spiders.
21:55:16 <Suzanne> and regardless of how much a Black Widow bite has been overhyped, its still not a pleasant experience for a few days (although the tiger wasps are worse 'fun')
21:55:53 <Suzanne> at least, i was told they were tiger wasps, i've never found a definitive name for them
21:56:07 <Suzanne> nasty big black wasps, with fangs and a neurotoxin
21:56:11 <kc5tja> Apparently brown widows are relatively new.
21:56:26 <kc5tja> Their numbers are apparently increasing.
21:56:31 <Suzanne> yeah
21:56:35 <kc5tja> AFAICT, they're just brown black widows.
21:56:35 <kc5tja> :)
21:56:56 <kc5tja> never heard of a tiger wasp.
21:57:10 <kc5tja> But I do know that one of your best allies in the fight against pests is, ironically, a pest in its own right -- a paper wasp.
21:57:25 <kc5tja> We had a paper wasp hive hanging on our garage door light back in Utica, NY.
21:57:30 <Suzanne> the brown widow does, allegedly, have a slightly stronger neurotoxin, putting it somewhere between a BW and a BR
21:57:47 <kc5tja> And for the five years they nested there, we had a substantially reduced problem with bees, and certain other kinds of insects.
21:57:50 <Suzanne> kc, the problem is, i'm allergic to wasp stings
21:58:02 <Suzanne> was nearly killed by it once, in fact
21:58:08 <kc5tja> My mom is allergic to anything that stings.
21:58:12 <Suzanne> thankfully, tiger wasps don't sting, they bite
21:58:24 <Suzanne> but their bite is a little strong than a black widow, and very similar
21:58:29 <kc5tja> Even she learned to appreciate the paper wasps.
21:58:30 <kc5tja> :)
21:58:59 <Suzanne> they LOOK like a big flying carpenter ant
21:59:03 <Suzanne> but i'm told they're wasps :)
21:59:10 <kc5tja> Do they have four wings?
21:59:21 <kc5tja> Or just two?
21:59:22 <Suzanne> dunno
21:59:31 <Suzanne> 2 i think
21:59:59 <kc5tja> Because we've got an infestation of these ant-looking insects with rather large mandibles, but they have two sets of wings.
22:00:19 <kc5tja> A big (e.g., 2" long) spider was having a heyday with them earlier this morning outside my room window.
22:00:33 <kc5tja> I don't know how his web could keep his weight.  :)
22:00:38 <kc5tja> 1" sorry
22:00:45 <kc5tja> Still, 1" is huge for a local spider.
22:04:06 <Suzanne> 4 wings sounds like a wasp
22:05:44 <Suzanne> anyway, these things we get are between 1.5" and 2" long
22:06:30 --- quit: I440r-work (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
22:15:27 <kc5tja> These are about one inch long or so.
22:15:32 <kc5tja> Maybe 0.75"
22:15:37 <kc5tja> My plant caught one today.  :D
22:15:50 <Suzanne> i swear something weird is happening with this planet tho
22:15:55 <Suzanne> and yet, noone else seems to be noticing
22:16:21 <Suzanne> some of the insects seem to be getting decidedly more 'prehistoric' looking
22:16:34 <Suzanne> like the big-ass dragonflies we get up here, 6" long
22:20:09 <Suzanne> hmmm
22:20:16 <Suzanne> i think i've found a pic of one:
22:20:23 <Suzanne> http://www.gardensafari.net/wespen/auplopus_carbonarius.jpg
22:21:42 <Suzanne> the page calls them 'spider wasps' and says that they lay their eggs in paralysed spiders after biting and injecting them with a neurotoxin
22:28:33 <kc5tja> hmm
22:29:10 <kc5tja> Yeah, that's definitely not what we're getting up here.
22:29:37 <Suzanne> consider yourself lucky ;P
22:30:07 <Suzanne> same effects as a black widow bite, ie, numb arm/leg for a few days, incredible pain when you lift it
22:30:11 <kc5tja> Interesting observation about the prehistoric regression.
22:30:26 <Suzanne> for some reason, black widows and spider/tiger wasps NEVER bite me anywhere but my legs or arms
22:30:56 <Suzanne> which is probably for the best, i don't want to imagine a chest or head bite
22:31:04 <kc5tja> That seems to be common with all insects; the sole exception is mosquitos, which love knuckles.
22:31:13 <Suzanne> yes, tell me about it...
22:31:16 <kc5tja> Heh neither do I.
22:31:30 <Suzanne> my knuckles still hurt from the mosquito fest when i took my telescope out to look at mars 2 weeks ago
22:31:39 * kc5tja nods
22:31:51 <kc5tja> I never got bit while looking at Mars; I usually get bit only when sleeping.
22:31:58 <Sonarman> ah!
22:32:05 <Sonarman> it was awful last night
22:32:13 <Suzanne> i'm very unlucky with mosquitos, they seem to be overly attracted to me :/
22:32:36 <Suzanne> my mom is the same, way, but my dad never gets bit
22:32:50 <Suzanne> erm 'same way' no comma in there, thanks ;)
22:33:15 <Sonarman> it could work.  it would be putting emphasis on the fact that your mom is the same
22:33:54 <Suzanne> kc, the scariest 'insect' encounter i've ever had, tho, has to have been the time we stopped in ohio once
22:34:40 <Suzanne> stayed at a motel just off the interstate, right next to some fields, and at about 9pm, and again at 4am when we set off, there were literally MILLIONS of big grasshopper or locust flying around
22:38:01 <Suzanne> good grief!
22:38:09 <Suzanne> i didn't know snails can live to be over 30 years old
22:46:31 <kc5tja> Heh
22:47:23 <kc5tja> I can't imagine that many insects.
22:47:42 <Suzanne> kc, it was like something out of the bible :P
22:47:57 <kc5tja> Ahh, "Who's Yo Daddy" Spider is back outside, feasting on the remainder of his daily catch from this morning.
22:48:14 <Suzanne> actually, at first i thought it was raining, because there was a 'patter patter' on the window, it was the grasshoppers/locust hitting the window ;P
22:48:37 <kc5tja> Yep.
22:48:50 <kc5tja> I drove through a local insect storm here.  Wipers were useless.
22:48:59 <kc5tja> I drained my window washer fluid on that trip.  :/
22:49:23 <Suzanne> i still don't know if they were grasshoppers or locusts
22:49:34 <Suzanne> i'm told the difference between the two is pretty much just size, so who knows
22:53:06 <kc5tja> I would think it is both size and coloration.
22:53:19 <kc5tja> Grasshoppers are green to grey, while locusts tend to be more brown/tan in color.
22:54:10 <Suzanne> these were kind of somewhere between green and tan
22:54:26 <Suzanne> and BIG
22:55:05 <kc5tja> http://eny3005.ifas.ufl.edu/lab1/Orthopteroid/Acridid.htm
22:55:31 <kc5tja> Apparently, a grasshopper is a locust, and vice versa, regardless.
22:58:16 <Suzanne> except for 'long horned' grasshoppers, apparently
22:58:31 <Suzanne> which is either a 'long horned grasshopper' or a 'katydid'
22:59:50 <Suzanne> hmmm, could have been 'american grasshopper's
23:00:14 <Suzanne> they are 40-55mm long as adults, and sort of the right coloring
23:02:52 <kc5tja> I think those are lumped in as locusts too.
23:03:02 <kc5tja> Doing a web search for them brings up tons of references for locusts.
23:03:08 <kc5tja> s/them/grasshopper/
23:03:50 <Suzanne> well, there are 2 genus(is that the right level) of grasshoppers
23:03:56 <Suzanne> longhorned, and shorthorned
23:04:25 <Suzanne> short horned are grouped with locust, long horned with katydids *shrug*
23:05:20 <Suzanne> suborder, would be the right level, i guess
23:06:21 <Suzanne> the whole hierarchy system confuses the hell out of me, tbh
23:20:03 <kc5tja> Yeah, me too.
23:20:21 <kc5tja> But I'll have to relearn it; to get into UCSD, I have to take at least one entry-level biology class at my community college.
23:20:32 <Suzanne> btw, do you get lunar moths over there?
23:20:55 <kc5tja> Never heard of them.
23:20:56 * kc5tja googles
23:20:57 <Suzanne> you should let your plants have one of those, it'd be fed for a month in one go :P
23:21:08 <Suzanne> one of the biggest moths around
23:21:13 <Suzanne> 12" wingspan
23:21:37 <kc5tja> http://www.robstine.com/lunar.htm -- if you're referring to these, then no.
23:21:56 <kc5tja> Oh goodie!  The sundew I have can grow to be 6" tall with leafs as long as 12".  :D
23:22:01 <Suzanne> that doesn't look much like one, but i suppose it could...
23:22:09 <Suzanne> they are green, with HUGE wings
23:22:26 <kc5tja> I bet they carry small children away in the night too?
23:22:27 <kc5tja> :)
23:22:34 <Suzanne> we had one caught in the screen on a window once, thought it was a bird or bat :P
23:22:37 <kc5tja> 12" is pretty big.
23:23:24 <Suzanne> http://natureproducts.net/Ecotourism/lunar_moth400.2.jpg
23:24:22 * arke is away: sl33p ... see ya tomorrow
23:25:15 <kc5tja> Hmm...there are two varieties of lunar moths.
23:25:20 <Suzanne> yeah, i think i'll head to bed too, via my palm and LispMe for 45-60 minutes :)
23:25:30 <kc5tja> The one I showed, and one with four wings.
23:25:37 <Suzanne> ah
23:25:53 <Suzanne> anyway....
23:26:04 <kc5tja> OKies, night.
23:26:14 <kc5tja> Gorgeous insects though.
23:26:18 <kc5tja> Very picturesque.
23:26:35 <Suzanne> yeah, but they scare the hell out of you the first time you run into one
23:26:44 <Suzanne> they're just so big you think they MUST be a bat ;)
23:30:10 <kc5tja> Heheh
23:46:51 <ianP> thats awesome looking.
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.09.05