00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.09.01 00:16:34 --- quit: uuter ("Hey! Where'd my controlling terminal go?") 00:18:41 --- join: corso (~chatzilla@dsc05-ari-co-199-182-50-41.rasserver.net) joined #forth 00:20:38 --- join: uuter (~uuter@ajhg40uqy57xe.bc.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 00:23:32 --- quit: corso (Remote closed the connection) 00:29:01 anyone here own a Jupiter ACE? 00:29:10 heh, no, i wish 00:29:20 the ROM is only 4 k i think 00:29:26 including the Forth 00:34:00 why not remake ? 00:34:16 ppl here made lotsa Spektrum's 'on a knee' 00:34:57 there were a few spectrum clones in soviet days yes? 00:35:02 :) 00:37:10 even nowdays some are produced 00:37:28 namely Sprinter 00:37:28 wow 00:37:54 ask 'sprinter forth z80' in google 00:38:58 asked ? i did 00:48:54 i have not looked, no browser at the moment 00:49:01 how much are they to buy? 00:49:04 like toys? 00:53:24 I want a jupiter ace just for the hell of it, one of those 'things to have but it is only emotionally worthwhile' 00:53:25 LOL 00:53:35 yeah 00:53:37 oh, ya, I should refrain from 'lol' and do the hehehe 00:53:57 I went to another channel, and they actually were telling me not to 'lol' but to hehehe 00:54:17 I have never in 15 years of IRC been told how to laugh, or how LOL was totally not allowed. 00:54:27 yeah, a little harsh 00:54:32 SDO: some people just have way too many things to care about, i guess 00:54:41 ianP, no sh*t 00:54:46 want me to burst in and bellow to my LOL's content? 00:54:48 15 years, damn.. 00:55:04 irc was born in what, 1990? 00:55:08 efnet anyway 00:55:17 I was irc'in in 1990 00:55:21 Ok, corrected 14 years. 00:55:22 i didnt know about the web until like '95 00:55:22 :) 00:55:27 SDO:hehe 00:55:30 heehe 00:55:37 t'hehehee 00:55:46 uuter: watch the unorthodox laugh, buddy 00:55:52 uh oh :( 00:55:53 I was spanking to ftp downloads in the DEC 5000 color labs and watching hard core porn on campus in the summers, IRC was my friend. 00:56:02 i discovered bbs's for a half year or a year 00:56:07 no, you can't 'hehehehehe' either, you hvae to 'heh' or 'hehe' 00:56:07 then found the net 00:56:10 haha sdo 00:56:34 and definitely you can't LOL, that is forbidden. 00:56:40 lol is ok, on occasion. 00:56:48 what is this channel? 00:56:50 I just about puked 2 gallons and swallowed it I was laughing so hard. 00:57:04 but you may ROFL ;)) 00:57:08 #irc_with_class 00:57:24 No, I tried ROLTFLMA and they said that was worse. 00:57:39 it's roflmao, nowadays.. 00:57:45 heh heh 00:57:52 I just use rolf. 00:57:53 oh yeah, AOL was before bbs i think 00:58:00 BBS? 00:58:03 rolling on the laughing floor 00:58:08 yeah, discovering bbs's i mean 00:58:12 I had a BBS up and running on Apple ][ in 1982 and 83. 00:58:17 ah. 00:58:19 i was born in 1981 :) 00:58:22 damn. 00:58:30 i remember my first online experience 00:58:39 my and my friend got our modems connected with zmodem 00:58:47 it was exhilarating to type back and forth 00:58:48 hahah 00:59:01 save aol, that doesnt count! 00:59:04 I wonder if your father downloaded a naughty ascii image of Sherryl Teegs and got your mom pregnant as a result of all the excitment... :) 00:59:17 * ianP doesnt know who taht is 00:59:21 porn star, i guess 00:59:37 Nah, Teegs was like the top super model in the late 70s and early 80s. 00:59:38 pr0n at the speed of light 00:59:54 google for her, she was an amazon woman! 01:00:03 She made Sports Illustriation the topic of the 80s. 01:00:19 I believe more gallons of spunk were wasted on her than any other supermodel. 01:00:35 someone may have measured it in metric tonage. 01:00:43 or in barrels. 01:01:07 hehe+he@!@! 01:01:25 porno suxxxx 01:01:43 Used a bunch of Cider 10 meg drives along with 3 Apple ][+ and hten //es along with connectivity, and Hayes Micro 1200 baud modems. 01:01:49 Porno does suck, the real thing sucks too. 01:01:52 it implants complexes, as well as christian bull$h!t 01:02:03 no, the real thing rocks ;)) 01:02:12 No, the real things sucks if she is any good. 01:02:14 christian? 01:02:35 Serg_Penguin, I think you are complexifying the notion of getting a woody withvisuals and then blowing a load and sleeping. 01:02:39 i don't know a whole lot about christianity, but i don't associate it with porn 01:02:50 but if a boy only watched XXX he'll have trubbles w/ reaching to real ;)) 01:02:54 www.divindinterventions.com ! 01:02:57 divine* 01:03:11 Serg_Penguin, do you speak from personal experience? 01:03:20 Or are you Freud now? 01:03:32 lol 01:03:34 heh 01:03:42 i meant, christians say 'sex is nasty thing' by their wicked words, porn say so by showing sex in wicked manner 01:04:14 ah, I see. What about a nice mix of sex with mom, and dad, and sister, and priest, and dog, and then watching porn. Is that a better balance? 01:04:20 you mean double anal is not in line with the bible ;) 01:04:24 LOL 01:04:47 now that makes me laugh my a$$ off. I saw a triple butt plugging the other day, made me thing, damn, elastoman. 01:04:58 John 1:3 : Thou shalt not commit Double Vagina Double Anal (DVDA) intercourse, or drink of Santorum. 01:05:00 s/man/woman/g 01:05:07 heh 01:05:17 rpc, you guys bust me up, this is what IRC should be. 01:05:26 totally!~ 01:05:29 i had damn exp w/ a girl who got lotsa complexes from xian mom and sister 01:05:35 this PC bullS*** has go to go. 01:05:59 we're working on it 01:06:00 DEATH TO PeeCeeS 01:06:03 slowly but surely :) 01:06:21 yup :) 01:06:25 one word at a time 01:06:26 Serg_Penguin, I think complexes come from control freaks who are supressed in sex and need to f*** other peoples lives up to make them feel better about their own. 01:07:23 yes, and near-all xians here are 'control freaks' you say 01:07:35 i saw exceptions, but they are rare 01:07:46 I'm ignorant, what is a xian, type of religion? 01:07:57 christian i think 01:08:02 christian, 4 short 01:08:04 a la xmas 01:08:10 yeah 01:08:12 http://radiofreeblogistan.com/ 01:08:14 x-ass 01:08:42 Channuka or Xmas, or any other organized pagen ritual, it is all about getting people programmed to be afraid of freedom. 01:08:52 sure 01:09:05 and baptism is ritual child abuse 01:09:22 act of 'baptizing' 01:09:23 religion is an extremly powerfull method of control 01:09:50 the sale of the soul to the idea from a man that something devine like God must demand 10% of your income. 01:10:14 Its the biggest scam on the Earth. 01:10:31 I say, I have a direct connect to God, and he says give me 10% of your wages. 01:10:37 All cause I say so. 01:10:55 yeah 01:11:06 15% is the current for Mormons i think 01:11:11 Oh, and if you are a little boy, you must suck my D*** too, cause I'm the reincarnation of Je*us and it is all good. 01:11:36 That is what the cardinal in Boston told the little boys. 01:11:48 heh 01:11:51 He actually said to them that F*** jesu* was ok. 01:11:58 maybe if they relaked the celebay thing 01:12:22 uuter, could be, but either way you have old men f*** little boys, literally and figuratively for LIFE. 01:12:23 getting a little might help with the cravings for children 01:12:26 my favorite thing to watch on TV is Trinity Broadcasting Network 01:12:31 my friends/family don't understand 01:12:36 but I just find it so fascinating 01:12:41 yeah 01:12:53 Its the biggest mis-INFOmertial on TV. 01:13:03 The biggest scammer right now is Benny Hin. 01:13:07 That guy busts me up. 01:13:13 oh man 01:13:15 i love that guy 01:13:18 good times 01:13:21 i watch him regularly 01:13:23 hehe! 01:13:26 I laugh so hard when he comes on and does his schtick. 01:13:34 him and john hagee 01:13:41 no fu*** fun ! 01:13:50 hagee, that guys looks like a small version of the incredible hulk. 01:14:01 Aum sinri-ko here bought lotsa time on state radio 01:14:02 His jaw is so square it looks unreal. 01:14:13 what is that? 01:14:14 he can spout the most vile, intolerant shit i've ever heard, too 01:14:30 and was promoted aggressively 01:14:30 man, what is his show called? 01:14:38 TBN is a network 01:14:38 totally, he is completely and utterlly the exact person who he says is going to hell. 01:14:42 and his show is john hagee ministries 01:14:43 sec 01:14:44 he's on the web 01:14:45 what is Aum sinri-ko? 01:15:07 * Serg_Penguin maybe saw Syoko Asahara from my window, not sure coz too short-sighted 01:15:09 we have 'Vision TV' 01:15:09 If you wan't to learn about sales ot the masses, and how to manipulate the masses, watch TBN. 01:15:19 hah 01:15:25 http://www.jhm.org/home-new.asp 01:15:33 uuter: the ones who made gas attack in Tokio 01:15:46 yah, that is him. Had to get a 'new' home cause he was chased out of town on the old one. 01:15:47 its fucked up how they refer to donations as "love gifts" and "your seed of love" 01:15:52 hah, Big-Ass ALL AMERICAN EAGLE 01:15:52 "please send your seed of love to us" 01:15:55 LOL 01:16:00 'seed of love' 01:16:14 seed of love has another meaning for me ;) 01:16:18 He is talking about seed alright, in the back room right prior ot 'sermon' he gives seed to the little church boys. 01:16:23 Sure does for me too. 01:16:26 Hah 01:16:30 That whole things is so obviously a ripoff. 01:16:36 heh right on the front page 01:16:38 3 produts 01:16:40 products 01:16:43 with 1 click purchase 01:17:03 my 'seed of love' to that bastards would be a double of bucksot - in mouth and ass 01:17:18 heh 01:17:31 dudes, if they take PayPal, we should donate 1 penny over and over again, the transaction costs are like 50 cents :) 01:17:40 it really is an amazing case study in marketing/advertisement strategies 01:17:49 hah 01:17:49 rpc, it always has been. 01:18:01 Egypt satanists -> Moses -> Christ -> Benni Hill ;((( 01:18:12 Serg_Penguin, LOL, exactly. 01:18:26 no hell of LOL 01:18:36 the tales of the epic of gilgamesh started it all, the fire side story. 01:18:51 the Egypt satanists were practicizing human sacrifices 01:18:53 SDO: or use a PRNG in conjunction to a Luhn formula and bombard them with millions of transactions... ;) 01:18:57 It is humanity that wants to have more meaning in life than we do, we are dying, literally to be important in a world that is meaningless in the big picture. 01:19:04 so... 01:19:33 they set up a 'god-chosen-nation' idea to launch a self-sustaining sacrifice 01:19:44 http://www.jhm.org/repent.asp 01:19:49 lol 01:19:52 it led to Hitler and Bin Laden ;(( 01:19:56 i clicked on 'WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN?' 01:20:09 ok, so what has God asked them to do now? 01:20:18 after repenting, now they ask for 10% 01:20:18 "and do whatever you ask me to do." 01:20:30 who is YOU? The pastor. 01:20:39 "I ask you to come into my life today and take control." 01:20:57 yah, he is right there after reading it with a donation purchase link. 01:21:04 lol 01:21:10 http://www.jhm.org/catalog/detail.asp?code=K13.1 01:21:25 Point: God has promised to bless the man or nation that blesses the Chosen People. History has proven beyond reasonable doubt that the nations that have blessed the Jewish people have had the blessing of God; the nations that have cursed the Jewish people have experienced the curse of God. 01:21:31 once you read htat message, then you righ to the salvation message purchase page. 01:21:46 The LUHN formula is also used to check Canadian Social Insurance Number (SIN) validity. 01:21:49 hah 01:21:49 well there's a handy fact 01:21:50 it always infuriates me that any culture can consider themselves worthy enough of being god's favorite people 01:22:02 i think i'm going to make a credit card/canadian sin generator combo in Forth now 01:22:05 Yah, kinda nice to know that those that sleep with Jews are going to be saved. 01:22:13 rpc, do it! 01:22:17 k! 01:22:24 heh 01:22:32 oh man, hacks and rants!@~ 01:22:39 ianP, but the Jews are the chosen people, at least until they are no longer the chosen people. 01:22:54 hah, he has images of IE for Mac buttons 01:22:58 I have to admit, the jewish women are much better looking than the Mohos that I have seen. 01:23:07 sdo - you're being sarcastic or? 01:23:20 my girlfriend is jewish. she has DD breasts. coincidence? perhaps. 01:23:26 I'm Jewish. 01:23:36 I have had DD tits from a few lovely Jewish women. 01:23:46 right.. and? 01:23:54 I can poke fun at the Jews all day long, cause not only am I one, we are a fuc*** up bunch too. 01:24:30 heh, my ex-gf was 1/4 or 1/2 jewish, her mother - full or 1/2 01:24:31 any organized religion is what my point is, Jewish, Morman, CHristian, Muslim, Hindu, Buhhdist, its all the same crap. 01:24:35 i believe in the scriptures, and jesus's teachings.. but i still dont get why jewish would be the 'chosen' people... 01:24:48 ah 01:24:50 it was a panoptikum of freaks 01:24:53 ianP, cause there has to be a favorite and an underdog to have a game of interest. 01:25:05 yeah, but i think globally 01:25:09 universally 01:25:11 Otherwise nobody will buy tickets to the show. 01:25:14 i am nothing... 01:25:21 that is false 01:25:27 certainly 01:25:30 and everything 01:25:34 that is also false 01:25:35 ok, nobody means to me not enough to justify the show. 01:25:43 i think everyone is gods chosen people 01:25:53 on that level 01:25:57 I think you are living a fantasy, but I still appreciate your dreams. 01:26:06 :) 01:26:17 thank you for sharing, we should all dream more often. 01:26:20 it just seems a bit contrived to 'choose' yourselves 01:26:24 ok, well what about poly-diety religions? 01:26:25 I agree. 01:26:33 uuter, they are just confused. 01:26:39 :) 01:26:42 hehehe 01:26:46 oh, yeah :) 01:26:47 they suffere from ADD 01:27:34 i dont see why 01:27:44 or call our Prayerline at 210-491-5100 01:27:46 god could hand me the scripture himself 01:27:55 still have your fone technique ? 01:28:01 and i could still not think the native americans or the egyptials were necessarily confused 01:28:01 i think out of everything i've found, i like existentialism the most, if i were required to label my beliefs 01:28:08 egyptians 01:28:13 it's all symbolic 01:28:17 basically that it doesn't matter if i was put here by an invisible man 01:28:18 ianP, it was a joke. 01:28:23 i am what i do 01:28:28 :) 01:28:30 and i better do as much as i can before i die 01:28:35 ADD = attention deficit disorder, can't keep attention on one thing for long. 01:28:41 the invisible super hero living in outer-space? 01:28:45 yeah him 01:28:51 or, as the Mormons believe, Kolob 01:28:51 ah, right 01:28:58 blue cape and tight red underwear. 01:29:05 heh 01:29:24 must be a catholic super hero. 01:29:27 here is another thing, Jesus would have been quite dark skinned 01:29:45 part of the "ambiguously gay duo" perhaps 01:29:48 rick or ace? 01:29:59 Jesus is make believe, the world is controlled thru fear of the unknown, and if it came out that Jesus was fake, made up, the world would go into ocmplete chaos. 01:30:12 heh, yeah 01:30:20 how do you know he is? 01:30:27 have you heard that 'Fu** the Creationists' song? 01:30:28 i mean, i have no idea, just curious 01:30:34 Prove to me without doubt that he existed and is God's child. 01:30:43 yeah right 01:30:53 yeeahh the second one is really the kicker for me there 01:30:54 prove to me without a doubt he didn't 01:30:55 The burdeon of proof is on the one making the statements, not me the doubter. 01:31:03 i think Marry just got knocked up behind jospehs back !! 01:31:08 i think any human is 'god's child' 01:31:13 ianP, I don't have to prove it, I'm not trying to convince you he did'nt exist. 01:31:15 LOL 01:31:19 uuter - yeah! it's all an elaborate cover up 01:31:21 ok, then who is God's daddy? 01:31:29 uuter, good question. 01:31:32 the buck has to stop somewhere 01:31:34 SDO: im not trying to convince you he existed 01:31:43 you purported he didn't 01:31:43 :) 01:31:45 ianP, I know you aren't 01:32:08 ianP, that was a statement of my belief, my opinion on the entire idiocy that we are being sold a bill of goods. 01:32:11 i think its silly people worship him 01:32:13 they're all mad 01:32:21 ianP: you are attacking the question instead of proving it 01:32:22 we know the sale of religion is a farce, a scam, and they rape the children. 01:32:23 that is a distraction 01:32:32 I don't trust anything of religion at all, in any form. 01:32:34 rpc - i realize it 01:32:59 SDO: me neither. i'd be a fool to believe everything i read 01:33:10 :P 01:33:11 what religion has not been used as a political tool? 01:33:11 you could chalk it up to probability for one 01:33:16 ianP, especialy when we can witness it first hand and see the coverups. 01:33:20 how many kidz of God do we have walking around now? 01:33:22 They installed a new pope a while ago 01:33:36 that had superpowers like Jesus-X 01:33:37 uuter, I beg to believe that what political system hasn't been used by the religion. 01:33:56 uuter, sounds like a mechanical upgrade. 01:33:58 And further more, whats up with an initial gene pool of 2? 01:34:02 i view the bible and whatever as literature really 01:34:10 ianP, that is all it is, stories. 01:34:10 extreme genetic mutation 01:34:19 i used to be so against it, was raised in christian families 01:34:30 I mean what King would be so audacious to say his version/interpretation of the scriptures is 'right'... 01:34:35 but, then i go read a more loose translation.. and it makes sense 01:34:37 i was raised southern baptist 01:34:38 perhaps were were made in god's image, but all the inbreeding has resulted in our current state 01:34:39 One that has a smart marketing manager. 01:34:44 catholic, here 01:34:56 we left the church when our sunday school teacher said she hoped Clinton died before he went into office. 01:34:59 SDO: yeah, and who wouldn't embellish with that motive 01:35:01 uuter, bleach the wash. 01:35:05 hah 01:35:38 so if we are heavily inbread, that might explain why i can't fly, perform miracles, et al 01:35:39 ianP, that was my point, just the assumption of it. Read about Gutenberg a little and find out what motivated the scriptures being changed. Very powerful stuff, it had to with control, nothing more. 01:35:57 isnt it true the chinese had a printing press hundreds of years before? 01:36:06 i don't think so 01:36:09 uuter, but you can fly, take 2 of these and come to my confessional box, I'll help you fly, it is goodness. 01:36:13 too many glyphs 01:36:17 ?i read somewhere.. 01:36:27 yeah, but can't they represent things phonetically 01:36:27 heh 01:36:35 kanji? 01:36:39 'i saw it on tv' 01:36:46 i don't know 01:36:48 it must be true then. 01:36:49 dunno, just know there are those sorts of represntations.. yes 01:37:11 heh did anyone pick up that book "the bible code" 01:37:21 i heard about it 01:37:22 i read tiny bits of it, in a store 01:37:28 years ago 01:37:31 have you seen the film 'Pi' ? 01:37:32 \ square root after Wil Baden 01:37:33 \ see C. H. Ting, The First Course 01:37:33 : SQRT ( n1 -- n2 ) 01:37:33 0 TUCK DO 1+ DUP 2* 1+ +LOOP ; 01:37:40 yeh 01:37:41 cool! 01:37:49 a little postamble to that, his math got blew to bits 01:38:00 ? 01:38:08 and the publishers had a challenge to make predictions from classic literature like Moby Dick 01:38:13 and someone did it 01:38:19 found assasination predictions etc 01:38:21 it was great 01:38:34 I440r_: sorry, was in regards to the above 01:38:36 nice 01:38:54 yeah, those are the same people who probably rave about numerology.. what a joke 01:39:04 heh 01:39:09 i dont get it 01:39:34 people can't handle indeterminace 01:39:47 uuter, yep that is why we name babies and stars. 01:40:00 oh heh 01:40:04 try to think about, 'where did all the matter in the universe come from' feel the emergency shut off trip? 01:40:45 all the matter in the universe is pour out from the 'other' universes, that is where it all comes from. 01:40:47 think about family units 01:40:53 ah 01:40:54 There is a leak in the airmattress. 01:41:33 when kids move away from their nuclear families, they are alone, so we have Father McCarthy to replace pops back home 01:41:34 that easy to conceptualize.. until you wonder which universe came first and how 01:41:56 hehe 01:42:08 did one come first or maybe they are all actually the same, some other dimensional barrier blocks us from seeing the continuity. 01:42:30 Jesus/God does have a father figure thing going on 01:42:32 true enough 01:42:35 Or maybe we just can't wrap our 'little itty bitty brains' around what really is reality. We live in a make believe view of the universe. 01:42:40 one that can't beat your ass while hammered etc.. 01:42:43 yep 01:43:10 we can't grasp whats going on in front of our noses to the same extent 01:43:13 can a member of reality fully understand it 01:43:23 It is well established that to observe you alter, so there is no way we will ever really know the 'truth' 01:43:26 we are within the system 01:43:30 maybe so, definitely can't write it down 01:43:44 --- join: embiopterae (~embiopter@ip68-3-201-99.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #forth 01:43:45 no no, Hiesenberg Compensators ;) 01:43:52 LOL :) 01:44:22 refer to page xx of your Star Trek The Next Generation technical manuar 01:44:33 http://www.decipher.com/startrek/cardlists/qcontinuum/small/heisenbergcompensators.html 01:45:26 oh man, i totally want a set of those cards 01:45:35 I need one of them for my bathroom, my festering hemeroids need one fo them compesators. 01:46:11 i picked up a pack of Star Trek Voyager Season 1 cards at a gas station in the states, after the series ended 01:46:37 when I get a swollen festing butt roid them compesators will definitely help me derivation of quantum vector data in beaming. 01:46:59 im sure you could just get a dermal regenerator 01:47:01 --- quit: I440r_ () 01:47:07 uuter, sorry to hear that, you got suckered into buying old inventory. I should hook you up with Benny Hinn. 01:47:31 heh, i bought them because it was so funny to see them there 01:47:41 uuter, thanks, where can I buy one of them dermal regens, can I get 2 forprice of one? 01:47:50 and i had tonz of american change to get rid of 01:47:54 does any collect jack chick tracts? 01:48:04 anyway, I'm glad this group of FORHT folks are not like that other channel where we couldn't shit aorund and chat... LOL FORTH rules. 01:48:20 night guys! 01:48:24 bye!~ 01:48:27 night! 01:48:34 I'll send you photos of the dermal regenerational processes. 01:48:35 :) 01:48:43 uh, no thanks 01:48:45 http://myasshurts.dyndns.org. 01:49:03 :) 02:09:00 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 02:27:19 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:32:42 --- part: Speuler left #forth 05:17:08 --- quit: draq (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:33:38 --- quit: embiopterae (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:33:44 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:34:24 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 05:51:15 --- join: embiopterae (~embiopter@ip68-3-201-99.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #forth 05:56:36 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h31n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 07:42:29 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:43:38 Hi 07:43:42 grr...I really can't understand how people can use windows... 07:44:07 or think that it's easier to install than the more user-friendly GNU/Linux distros 07:44:08 Because Microsoft bribe their bosses? 07:44:18 And brainwash them. 07:44:35 * Robert likes Debian. 07:45:00 I'm just annoyed because I spent 30 minutes trying to get a Windows computer to boot 07:45:30 and then 2 hours booting from the CD and trying to get it to reinstall windows 08:29:11 --- join: jdrake (jdrake@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 08:31:31 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h33n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 08:32:39 Hej. 08:33:29 bonjour 08:33:33 tja 08:33:41 Hi there, jdrake 08:34:05 gjort mig av med calypso nu som du ser :P 08:34:11 how be-tu Robert? 08:37:21 Frek: Mm.. skall göra mig av med Telia snart. BBB ger mer för samma pris. 08:37:28 jdrake: I.. be-tu fine, I guess. 08:37:30 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 08:38:22 be it possible to write an operating system kernel in forth? (of course I know the answer to that is pretty affirmative because of open firmware, but more practical - could (not that one would) one say right a linux kernel in forth and have regular distro on top of that) 08:39:02 --- quit: embiopterae (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:39:08 jdrake, in theory, you probably could 08:39:27 jdrake, i doubt anyone would want to maintain the equivalent of around 30M lines of C in forth tho 08:40:58 are there any interesting sites that should be taken note of for system programming in forth? 08:41:09 a better approach, would probably to go the microkernel route, it makes more sense in forth anyway 08:41:36 I've coded some small systems in Forth, http://robert.zizi.org/ But I warn you, I'm far from an expert. 08:41:48 i have always been a fan of microkernels 08:41:52 Mostly toy systems anyway, nothing serious. 08:42:16 jdrake, me too, except you have to make sure the microkernel remains functional, and not end up with minix :P 08:43:04 what is 'mtv' 08:43:18 jdrake: Stack VM for AVR chips, I've written a Forth for it. 08:43:19 jdrake, a crappy 'music' tv network ? :) 08:43:38 Suzanne: There's a Forth-related MTV now ;) 08:43:54 i believe the main part of getting a system up would be getting a forth prompt to boot up out of openfirmware 08:43:57 robert, i guesed that, it was the obvious 'humourous' answer 08:44:14 Suzanne: I guessed that. ;) 08:44:34 jdrake, i dunno, the hard part would probably be that you're going to need some kind of persistant storage functions 08:44:54 that would be rather difficult 08:45:08 Soon I'll upload my latest creation, a wonderful little brainfuck computer. Just to show how useful Forth really is, compared to some languages! 08:45:17 getting a forth prompt is easy, you just need to look at any of the DOS or similar level, forth systems 08:45:30 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000d601000c7.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:45:32 but if you have to type in your 'OS' each time, its not going to be much fun :P 08:45:36 my machine would never run dos... 08:45:44 jdrake, thats not what i'm saying... 08:46:04 --- join: futhin (futhin@dial-179.ocis.net) joined #forth 08:46:07 what i mean, is a DOS based forth is probably running pretty close to the 'inbuilt IO' system, most likely BIOS 08:46:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 08:46:23 hi all :D 08:46:34 Hi futhin 08:46:37 jdrake, so getting a 'forth prompt' is the easy bit on a bare machine, but you would need to have some kind of persistant storage of words, like OF does 08:46:44 robert: how are you doing? anything new? :) 08:46:47 when somebody ops themselves on freenode it is usually to kick somebody... 08:46:49 but relying on NVRAM like OF probably isn't an option 08:47:03 which means you're going to likely have to code some kind of filesystem into the forth system 08:47:09 Suzanne, right - i need to be able to boot my machine later 08:47:16 futhin: I'm doing fine, thanks. What have you been up to? 08:47:17 fun stuff 08:47:22 jdrake: heh, nah.. when i identify myself i get opped automatically 08:47:23 OF provides hooks anyways 08:47:37 --- nick: futhin -> thin 08:48:07 stuffs should be able to be written to sort of write drivers 08:48:17 but there wouldn't be much room for error 08:48:24 robert: not much, work around the house, painting the house, etc.. 08:48:31 robert: partying ;) 08:48:44 thin: I beleive the first part, but not the partying part. 08:49:24 is that because you think my online personality is the same as my irl personality 08:49:36 God, no! 08:49:43 That would be terrible! 08:49:46 ;) 08:49:50 >:) 08:49:53 are there any bootable forth implementations for ppc that ones know of? 08:50:11 jdrake, other than OF ? ;) 08:50:24 yes :-) 08:50:50 I think Herkamire is working at one. 08:51:58 robert: i'm a bit of a party animal, clubbing, etc.. i'm not really a geek, i'm a pseudo-geek 08:52:28 i like the flow chart of a forth compiler: http://www.circuitcellar.com/DesignForum/features/9805022/fig1.gif 08:52:41 --- join: rk (~chris@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 08:52:44 it looks a lot simpler than a c 08:52:48 thin: I only party with other anti-social geeks. 08:52:58 that's not partying 08:53:04 It is. 08:53:07 that's what i call "lame gatherings" 08:53:14 We smoke pot and code brainfuck. 08:53:31 That's only because you're futhin. 08:53:40 a party by my definition is a high energy environment usually with girls and dancing 08:53:46 well smoking pot is a start 08:53:52 i've done a few geekfests with my friends 08:53:52 Dancing sucks. 08:53:55 we go for 36 hours 08:53:58 playing games and crap 08:54:01 it's a marathon 08:54:07 Girls are usually not geeky enough. 08:54:11 robert: because you suck at dancing 08:54:14 dancing is elite 08:54:22 * fridge tapdances 08:54:24 the thing i don't understand about the current 'dance marathon' craze... 08:54:30 thin: Not really. I find it boring. 08:54:31 is that dance marathons were made illegal in the 30s 08:54:49 geek girls are less than 1% of the total population of girls, so don't get your hopes up 08:56:35 suzanne: are you talking about raves? 08:56:46 thin, no, 'dance marathons' 08:56:55 i have no idea what a dance marathon is 08:57:01 they were made illegal after a bunch of people died doing them 08:57:22 with a geek girl you have to write the program to get a blow job, and compile it and *ask* (not tell) her to execute 08:57:23 thin, basically, they're a elimination contest with dancing 08:57:37 whoever can dance 'continuously' (there are small breaks) the longest wins the prize 08:57:43 heh 08:57:56 thin, they became popular during the great depression because people were desperate for money, by any means 08:58:11 and so people were competing in them to the point where people were dying of exhaustion from them 08:58:46 those who don't know history are bound to repeat it :P 08:58:51 Robert: BBB har inget här :/ 08:58:52 thin, indeed 08:59:01 thin, but, i was under the impression they were made illegal back then 08:59:21 thin, perhaps i'm mistaken and they were just regulated out the wazoo or something 08:59:26 suzanne: did i say they came back? 08:59:40 thin, no, but they have, there have been a few on the news 09:00:04 your 'dancing' and 'its a marathon' reminded me, is all 09:00:22 yeah, well the geek marathon definitely had no dancing, unless it was in quake ;) 09:00:42 lol 'do the circle-strafe' 09:00:44 robert: my favorite geek girl is Ayn Rand :D 09:08:10 what does *it* mean "The Forth virtual machine has a *Harvard architecture* " 09:09:00 jdrake, data and instructions are mixed, iirc 09:10:45 ah, no, wrong way around 09:10:52 harvard = data and instructions are seperate 09:11:07 von neumann = data and instructions are combined 09:11:09 would that be the two stacks thing? 09:12:09 jdrake, 2 ? :) 09:13:24 jdrake, its not so much the stacks themselves, but that the instructions/words and the stack are seperate from each other mostly 09:14:14 unfortunately, its hard to tell what people mean by 'harvard' these days, since a CPU like the P3 looks to the world as a von neumann system, but some people call it harvard because it has seperate I and D caches 09:15:27 a CPU like the motorola 56k series is far more obvious as a harvard machine, IMO, there you have seperate instruction and data address space 09:17:14 sorry, wasn't paying attention. 09:17:22 jdrake: I'm working on a PPC bootable forth 09:17:29 Herkamire, sweet 09:17:34 how close to working is it 09:17:38 I expect to have it booting within 6 months 09:17:51 currently it only runs under PPC linux 09:17:57 what exactly is involved in it 09:19:06 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp80962.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 09:20:21 it's a colorforth sorta, and it uses a tokenized source format (so the editor does dict lookups etc) 09:21:00 i want to investigate hardware with forth 09:21:07 http://jason.herkamire.com:5000/svn/herkforth/doc/overview 09:21:12 brb 09:21:25 hell, maybe even writing a kernel or something 09:22:11 is anyone here non-lazy enough to actually code something useful in forth? 09:22:25 anybody here interested in coding FOME? 09:22:32 FOME? 09:22:33 FOME = Forth online multi-user environment 09:22:48 back. 09:22:49 not I 09:22:50 i.e. a website with a forth front end? 09:22:56 nope 09:22:56 I'm not interested in multi-user 09:22:59 wossname y0 09:23:10 hey rk 09:23:11 I'm non-lazy enough. 09:23:28 but you have to wait for me to finish my forth before I write any useful user-programs. 09:23:35 its an environment similar to IRC where forthers get together to talk and to code and to see each other coding, it's basically a collaboration environment 09:23:38 my colorforth editor is coming along nicely though 09:23:52 what exactly is colourforth? 09:24:05 herkamire: will your useful user-programs be easily portable? 09:24:29 jdrake: it's mostly just a way of displaying forth where you use colors instead of these symbols: : [ ] variable constant 09:24:45 Herkamire, why would you want to do that 09:24:49 oh no 09:25:02 * Suzanne senses another 'thats stupid' 'no its not' argument about cf coming on :P 09:25:19 jdrake: I think it makes it easier to see at a glance what is going on and find a definition etc. 09:25:52 i can see the benefit of say highlighting a variable name, but : [] are different beasts me thinks 09:26:20 Would anyone like to code web forum in forth? a wiki in forth? 09:26:56 jdrake: What I've done is encoded the color/function of each word into the source for that word. The low bits of my "source token" are the color/function. one for define, one for execute, one for compile, some for numbers etc. 09:27:15 it can easily be displayed/edited in color or as ascii text. 09:27:37 i downloaded mandrake, i think i will burn it and install it 09:27:44 then I can try you system 09:27:50 jdrake, noooooo :P 09:27:58 mandrake is about the worst linux distro around :) 09:28:00 bbl 09:28:18 Suzanne, openbsd was giving me too much trouble 09:28:26 jdrake, for PPC 'there is only one' 09:28:39 gentoo would not work for me very well 09:28:46 (couldn't get networking up well) 09:28:48 jdrake, and that's yellowdog without a second thought 09:29:03 and debian froze on startup 09:29:17 wasn't yellowdog 6 discs? 09:29:32 jdrake, i've only ever used disc 1 09:29:55 why yellowdog 09:29:56 its somewhat like most distros, the install disc is the only necessary disc, the rest tend to be optional stuff you can dl as you go if you wish 09:30:10 jdrake, 1) its supported somewhat by apple and IBM 09:30:21 2) its the most reliable of all the ppc distros, IME 09:30:35 because it is the only platform it works on? 09:30:48 jdrake, perhaps that has bearing, yes 09:31:48 --- topic: set to 'Go ahead, talk about forth, code a little, be lazy, mentally masturbate, don't make anything happen' by thin 09:32:10 if I only need the first disk, then I will go ahead and download it 09:32:20 1.5 hours isn't too much to wait 09:32:21 jdrake, well, i havent' tried 3.0 yet 09:32:27 my 2.2 machine is still running fine :P 09:32:34 pft! 09:32:51 i'm still on 1.1.1 09:32:59 i keep meaning to upgrade it, there are bound to be some minor packages i'm not getting with manual upgrades 09:33:12 the dogs will be out if it requires more :-) 09:33:15 anyway, point is, its worked reliably for, what? nearly 2 years or so 09:33:35 NOTE: All three images are needed for installation!! 09:33:54 i am installing mandrake 09:34:09 i only have one little gripe, and that is that when i shut down, it doesn't unmount the disks properly, but that was probably fixed long ago, and i shut down so rarely i can never be bothered to look into what causes it 09:34:37 jdrake, well, when mandrake doesn't work and you end up dling ydl anyway, let us know :P 09:34:39 does it support sleep at all? 09:34:49 suzanne: it's probably something in the config files 09:35:07 thin, i'm thinking its probably a mistake in the /etc/init.d script for shutdown 09:35:21 yeah, there's a umount line somewhere, just fix that.. 09:35:39 --- quit: thin ("gtg") 09:36:21 jdrake, i've never needed to use sleep 09:42:53 I use gentoo on ppc 09:42:58 works great 09:43:11 and there's #gentoo-ppc is very helpful if you have trouble 09:44:36 hmm, i knew not of it 09:45:49 i *have* gentoo somehwere i think 09:45:52 iso 09:46:17 nevermind, i threw it out yesterday 09:55:58 --- quit: wossname (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:58 --- quit: Robert (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:58 --- quit: uuter (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:58 --- quit: Klaw (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:59 --- quit: skylan (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:59 --- quit: Stepan (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:59 --- quit: fridge (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:59 --- quit: XeF4 (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:59 --- quit: ooo (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:59 --- quit: ChanServ (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:59 --- quit: Herkamire (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:59 --- quit: jdrake (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:59 --- quit: ianP (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:59 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:55:59 --- quit: Frek (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:56:00 --- quit: Suzanne (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:56:00 --- quit: onetom (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:56:00 --- quit: rpc (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:57:22 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 09:57:22 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000d601000c7.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:57:22 --- join: Frek (~anvil@h33n2fls31o815.telia.com) joined #forth 09:57:22 --- join: jdrake (jdrake@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 09:57:22 --- join: Suzanne (~suzanne@65-73-37-205.bras01.mdl.ny.frontiernet.net) joined #forth 09:57:22 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 09:57:22 --- join: ianP (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 09:57:22 --- mode: orwell.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 09:57:25 --- join: fridge (~fridge@dsl-203-33-160-96.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 09:57:25 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 09:57:25 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@frees.your.system.with.openbios.org) joined #forth 09:57:25 --- join: ooo (~o@jalokivi.netsafir.com) joined #forth 09:57:37 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 09:57:37 --- join: rpc (~rpc@global.whiteh8.net) joined #forth 09:58:00 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp80962.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 09:58:00 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h31n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 09:58:00 --- join: uuter (~uuter@ajhg40uqy57xe.bc.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 09:58:00 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4698.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 09:58:00 --- join: Klaw (~anonymous@ip68-4-157-105.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 10:11:35 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:11:40 --- quit: rk ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!") 10:31:35 --- quit: wossname ("somebody think of the children") 10:34:25 --- join: I440r_ (~x@sdn-ap-005txhousP0466.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 10:46:31 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp80962.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 10:50:54 * arke is away: d0g 33t d0g 10:53:08 --- quit: Frek ("saving bandwidth") 10:59:26 lol 11:18:19 --- quit: wossname ("gay sex") 11:30:51 * arke is back (gone 00:39:55) 11:36:26 i should copyright "xchg ebx, [esp]" 11:38:19 no 11:38:23 i already do that 11:38:28 thers prior art! 11:39:25 Hi 11:40:03 I440r_: He's told me a number of revolutionary ideas for his Forth, all of them are ripped off from IsForth :P 11:41:13 Haha! 11:41:17 futhin is odd: 11:41:18 18:17:52 the geek girl is a myth! all geeks dream of the geek girl because they want to get laid without playing the game 11:41:21 18:18:51 the game has a few rules: 1) you can't interact with girls rationally if you want to get laid, you have to interact emotionally 11:41:24 18:18:58 2) eh, i don't fucking know 11:41:30 He messaged me that for no obvious reason. 11:44:41 I440r_: what? aww... i came up with that one all on my own! 11:45:14 I440r_: i was so proud of myself too ... *sniff* 11:45:25 * arke greps 11:46:06 lol 11:47:10 * arke cries 11:47:18 i came up with that all on my own! not fair! 11:47:57 look at the isforth sources :P 11:48:05 Hah. How could I guess the topic here was (c) futhin? 11:50:10 :) 11:52:23 yea must be :) 11:54:59 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@66-91-231-74.san.rr.com) joined #forth 11:54:59 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 11:56:02 Hi kc5tja 12:00:05 kc5tja: hello 12:40:18 --- join: gilbertdeb (gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-142.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 12:41:15 re 12:42:23 aloha 12:42:34 hello 12:42:42 hey Robert? 12:42:56 Yes? 12:43:08 I was just looking up the language George ... apparently it was the first to use RPN 12:43:21 When did it come? 12:43:23 I can't seem to find much beyond honorable mentions of it. 12:43:31 Robert '57 or '58 12:43:53 Heh. 12:44:08 Robert: can I come back? 12:44:16 arke: Back to..? 12:44:26 http://www.csc.liv.ac.uk/~peter/hamblinbio.html 12:44:30 Robert: #tiniervms 12:44:40 what is tinier vms/ 12:44:44 the OS VMS??? 12:44:51 arke: Oh.. why? You're already in 10 channels together with me. 12:44:58 hehehhe 12:45:02 gilbertdeb: tiniervm* 12:45:11 gilbertdeb: An old VM project of mine., 12:45:22 ah I see. 12:45:52 Robert: only 4, and its boring without #tiniervms :) 12:45:56 It's not. 12:46:06 That's the channel with the LEAST activity I'm in. 12:46:25 Robert: it always has the most interesting conversations though :) 12:46:45 Right, we don't need you there to troll them apart. 12:47:03 . 12:47:37 * arke quotes self: "I'm not a troll, I just get occasionally annoying" 12:47:41 Hehehe 12:47:51 Right. Yet another reason to keep that ban! 12:48:06 . 12:48:29 why doesnt anybody ban smerdy from hprog then? he is _constantly_ annoying 12:48:32 or kurt 12:48:45 smerdiakoff? 12:48:55 Smerdyakov 12:49:05 ack 12:49:22 kurt is even worse actually 12:50:07 aloha 12:50:09 --- part: gilbertdeb left #forth 12:50:58 Smerdyakov is the head of hprog. 12:51:10 O.O 12:51:16 And Kurt is an idiot, but an idiot who is defended by lots of people. 12:51:47 Robert: how is he defended? I have never met a person, either in real life (bleh) or IRC, who agrees with Kurt. 12:53:18 kurt ? 12:54:08 I440r_: I think they're talking about a channel different from this one. 12:54:20 * kc5tja just finished restringing and retuning his guitar. 12:54:23 oh :) 12:54:36 i gotta do that with mine :) 12:54:52 * Suzanne casts the magic 'change humidity' spell and watchs as kc's guitar magically detunes 12:55:46 i440, truth be told, i need to do it on ALL mine, but i only have 3 sets left, and it'll be 2100 before i can afford another set :/ 12:56:12 actually, i might only have 2 sets left, i've failed to keep strict counts on them recently 12:56:39 lol 12:56:53 Suzanne plays guitar ? :) 12:57:01 i440, and bass, and keyboard 12:57:30 Great. A channel with a bunch of musicians, and a deaf person. 12:57:46 the bass hasn't had new strings for 2 years tho, and unlikely to get any for a few more years 12:58:06 (nor does it need new strings...) 12:58:23 Robert is dead? 12:58:24 great thing about bass is you can go 20 years without changing strings, and noone really notices 12:58:26 deaf* 12:58:37 Suzanne: heh yeah 12:58:40 No. 12:58:56 except for that they start getting greasy, and start feeling funky 12:58:57 TBW is 12:59:05 ? 12:59:10 robert, if my musical talents are anywhere close to the mean for the channel, being deaf may well be an advantage 12:59:11 TheBlueWizard. 12:59:20 ooh. 12:59:23 Suzanne: :) 12:59:28 :) 12:59:50 Suzanne: On the other hand, I think being a continent away from you is enough. 13:00:06 not if i crank the amp up :P 13:00:23 Hehe :) 13:00:35 Robert: how _is_ Kurt defended? 13:01:16 --- join: embiopterae (~embiopter@ip68-3-201-99.ph.ph.cox.net) joined #forth 13:05:07 Suzanne: No need. These are fresh strings. Just letting it sit for 30 seconds will detune it. 13:05:19 kc, lol, true 13:05:30 kc, specially if a) you didn't stretch them, b) its a floating trem 13:05:50 i always pre-stretch mine, but, i fall into the (b) clause :/ 13:06:02 at least, on my main guitar 13:06:28 my heritage and the strat tend to stay tuned if the strings are pre-stretched... 13:06:58 I did neither. I pulled on the strings a couple of times, but not for a very long duration. 13:07:12 tch 13:07:14 And I have a floating "trem" (which is?) too, as my guitar supports a whammy bar. 13:07:29 hough I never use it. 13:07:31 well, floating trem is one where the trem is centered, you can pull up or push down... 13:07:55 What does 'trem' stand for, is what I am asking. 13:07:55 a floyd rose, most strat trems, and several other kinds, are 'floating' 13:08:06 kc, its a really stupid mistake that has stuck :) 13:08:20 * kc5tja always thought of it as a bridge. 13:08:25 it stands for 'tremolo' although the 'trem bar/arms' on guitars aren't tremolo :) 13:08:36 Ahhh, gotcha. 13:08:41 heh exactly! 13:08:47 leo fender fucked up 60 years ago 13:09:01 he called the vibrato bridge 'tremolo' and the tremolo circuit in his amps 'vibrato' 13:09:03 floyd rose with locking nut is the ony way to go 13:09:14 which is what happens when you let a non-guitarist design guitars :P 13:09:23 i440, i'd disagree with a 'but' :P 13:11:49 eh ? 13:13:22 a steinberger TransTune or a GOOD kahler are far better 13:13:31 'but' a floyd rose is more affordable, and easier to obtain 13:14:05 in fact, best floating bridge i used was a single locking kahler that was *still* in tune 5 years after being stringed/tuned last :) 13:14:44 your just too lazy to tune your guitar :P 13:14:52 and i dont believe that 13:14:56 no, i left it at my parent's house in the UK 13:15:02 because strings will detune evem without use 13:15:10 inteh uk? 13:15:14 where in the uk 13:15:16 left the UK in 1995, returned in 2000, and it was still in tune, give or take 10 cents 13:15:33 i440, yorkshire 13:15:44 ouch 13:15:46 HAH! The advantages of living with musician roomies. 13:15:51 I know what you mean by 'cents.' :D 13:15:53 i lived inlancashire :) 13:16:04 and even tho we won it the war of the roses is not over yet :) 13:16:08 but we STILL won it :) 13:16:10 anyway, i still stand by my claim, that a *good* kahler is better than a floyd 13:16:20 but, unfortunately, a lot of the kahlers made were junk 13:17:15 don't get me wrong, i like floyds, just a good kahler will beat it on feel and reliability 13:18:04 how do you tell a good one froma bad one ? 13:18:06 they ARE more complex tho, its just basic engineering, since floyds use a direct arm->trem block movement, whereas a kahler has the arm and the trem block seperated by a cam 13:18:07 :) 13:18:17 i440, if its 10 years old, and its still on a guitar, its a good kahler :) 13:18:28 bad ones break strings so often that most people rip them out and put a floyd in its place 13:18:32 * kc5tja notes that fruit leather is a weird thing. 13:19:36 that said... 13:19:46 Heh Sorry. 13:19:52 bad floyds have problems too, often the pivot points will 'sink' as a guitar gets older 13:20:39 you can replace theh posts 13:21:00 yeah, but often times on a cheap floyd/guitar you'll have to have the body replaced when the pivots go bad 13:21:08 because the wood behind the pivot compresses 13:21:34 its probably easier to make a decent floyd than a decent kahler tho, again, its an issue of complexity, more failure points in a kahler 13:21:54 heh well i got an ibanez - that wont happen to me :/ 13:22:02 i440, urgh :P 13:22:17 i'm afraid i consider ibanez 'cheap n nasty imported junk' :P 13:22:50 and basswood, which most 'i been had' bodies are made from, compresses pretty badly 13:23:00 if its good enough for joe satriani its good ennuff for me :) 13:23:19 i440, i bet your 'i been had' didn't come with oodles of cash tho :P 13:23:21 his do :P 13:23:38 should the first word of a freshly generated wordlist have a backlink of 0? 13:26:50 Stepan: That's how most implement a linked list, yes. 13:27:09 lol 13:27:12 Stepan: There are alternative methods, such as circular lists, which don't though. It just depends on what is easiest for you. 13:27:13 kc5tja: that i know 13:27:24 yes 13:27:38 i440, satch was a jackson endorsee until ibanez paid him to use their guitars :/ 13:27:52 but i wonder whether it is smart since then you wont be able to iterate through all words with a last @ loop 13:28:02 * kc5tja has a Jackson JS-1. Is that any good? 13:28:02 only through all words in a word list. 13:28:10 kc, not especially, sadly 13:28:21 kc, the JS series are their budget guitars, made in korea iirc 13:28:25 Suzanne: I didn't think so. I didn't expect it to be either. I picked it up really, really cheaply. 13:28:34 Mine says India. :) 13:28:36 kc, as budget guitars go, tho, they're not bad 13:28:55 Suzanne: They buzz a lot though. Not sure if I am playing it wrong though. I probably am, or a combo of both. 13:29:04 kc, yeah, the JS move about, some years its korea, some taiwan, some india, whereever can make them cheapest really 13:29:11 * Suzanne plays a soloist :P 13:29:41 * kc5tja doesn't know much about playing guitar, actually. I just got it because I thought it'd be cool to have and play around with occasionally. 13:30:01 kc, buzzing could be either you or the guitar, really 13:30:33 Suzanne: Yeah, I know. That's why I never bothered really to look into it in any great detail. 13:30:50 I just don't know enough to determine what is causing it. 13:31:02 kc, the best range of jacksons for value vs quality is probably the DK series 13:31:16 they're japanese made, but they're pretty high quality for 'budget' 13:31:34 how low is your action 13:31:35 I think this guitar is good enough to learn on though. 13:31:40 I440r_: I have no idea. 13:31:44 I440r_: How do I measure this? 13:31:51 how close are the strings to the frets 13:32:05 specifically, to the 12th fret :P 13:32:06 fret at the 5th 7th and 9th and see if the string touches ANY other frets 13:32:42 i440, its a hard test to do visually, tho 13:32:43 try raising your action a tad and see if it fixes the buzz 13:32:52 I440r_: It depends on where you look on the neck. 13:32:56 Towards the top, it's really close. 13:32:58 because on a GOOD action it should be so close that you can barely see a gap 13:33:01 Towards the bottom, it's REALLY far away 13:33:07 kc, that sounds like a relief issue 13:33:34 There's like a 1/10" inch gap between the strings and the 12th fret. 13:33:36 oh, wait, no, it should be that way, sort of 13:33:40 Suzanne agreed but some guitars wont handle a low action. 13:33:47 i440, indeed 13:33:55 and if you mess with the action you realy need to fix the intonation too 13:34:00 thats also not easy :P 13:34:06 i440, i tend to find most fenders and gibsons can't handle low action very well 13:34:16 (by low, i mean sub 2mm :) 13:34:44 Suzanne ya. most fenders ive seen have a 5mm action minimum 13:34:49 * Suzanne nods 13:34:52 any lower than that and youru in trouble 13:35:00 my heritage craps out at the 17th if i go below about 6 13:35:05 my ibanez is currently at 3mm but i want it lower 13:35:28 need to lower the trem and tighetn the kneck 13:35:49 my soloist is usually at about 1.2mm 13:36:00 * kc5tja didn't change the action/intonation on this guitar. I just changed the strings. 13:36:09 It's otherwise at, or reasonably close, to factory defaults. 13:36:20 kc, the problem there... 13:36:26 is that factory defaults are usually crap 13:36:37 Yeah, I know. 13:36:42 i've only once seen a guitar from factory with decent neck relief, and that was the soloist 13:36:48 But I don't know how to change things and actually have a playable guitar afterwards 13:37:12 kc, best to learn these things on a cheapo guitar, tho 13:37:13 I've heard on numerous occasions that changing action/intonation is one of the hardest things to get right. 13:37:16 kc5 the only thing i cannot do with my guitar (other than play it well) is do a fret job 13:37:21 that i leave to the professionals :/ 13:37:29 i440, same here 13:37:44 of course, i'm fucked if i ever need a neck replace :P 13:37:49 lol 13:37:59 its a thru-body, so 13:38:06 lol 13:38:21 My frets are just dove-tailed into the nect. 13:38:23 neck even 13:38:26 * kc5tja can't even type today. 13:38:35 kc, yeah, they will be, no binding on the JS 13:38:35 I swear, I'm getting worse and worse at typing daily. 13:38:53 the DKs and DXs usually have binding, though its not always the best quality work 13:40:09 binding is nice, but it seriously raises the price if you need a fret job done 13:40:22 * kc5tja doesn't even know what a binding is in this case. 13:40:25 most places want $150+ *JUST* for dealing with the binding 13:40:44 kc, well, its a strip of some material over the edge of the fretboard 13:41:00 it can go over or under the fret ends, higher priced guitars are usually overbound, so that the fret ends are hidden 13:41:39 I440r_: whats the best way for me to have tons of memory thats not allocxated for me to keep a hash tbale? (linux) 13:41:58 what do you mea n? 13:42:00 arke: Huh? 13:42:56 I440r_: basically, i need a huge space in which i can just dump stuff :) 13:43:20 arke: You need to allocate said huge space somehow. 13:43:27 kc, this is a picture of an underbound fretboard: http://zeppmusic.com/9535mitre.jpg 13:43:39 You cannot use memory that isn't allocated to your process; you'll segfault if you try to. 13:44:17 kc5tja: the reason im asking is that I440r_'s isforth is somehow using major space, without allocating. 13:44:23 gotta know how :) 13:44:33 if you allocate 20 megs of memory you dohnt actually get any of the pages until you try to use them 13:44:35 arke: He has to be allocating it somehow. 13:44:59 sbrk() can be used to allocate data-space. 13:45:21 Although malloc() is preferable if you're linking with the standard C libraries. 13:45:33 (maybe even required, I don't know) 13:45:57 naah, i cant use malloc, dont wanna hold moms hand (*wink* I440r_) 13:46:15 Huh? 13:46:18 I440r_: how do you do it? you arent using sbrk 13:46:34 no 13:46:52 brk will only change the size of your program space 13:46:58 arke: sbrk is a system call -- right into the kernel. It may go by a different name in the header files, but the function is the same. 13:46:59 thers a syscall to actually allocate memory 13:47:19 * kc5tja notes that malloc() works by progressively invoking sbrk() when it needs to. 13:47:22 I440r_: oh ... so you _are_ allocating? 13:48:04 yes 13:48:11 do you have isforth there ? 13:48:19 look in memory.f 13:48:22 yep. 13:48:28 It increases the size of your data space, not the code space. But since the process memory is laid out as code, then data, then bss, sbrk() effectively extends the bss segment. 13:48:50 (provided it doesn't interfere with the stack) 13:50:08 sbrk would be fine, then. 13:50:21 i could just start dumping stuff at the end :) 13:51:34 * kc5tja nods 13:52:07 hrm ... so just put a start_of_place_to_dump_sh_t: at the end of the source file? 13:52:58 I would have to see how you're building your program to answer that question. 13:53:20 Such a label should be the very last label in the BSS segment of your program. 13:53:21 one source file, with several include files :) 13:53:26 yup. 13:53:41 Source is written in what language? 13:53:49 section .bss ...... dump_sh_t_here 13:53:53 kc5tja: asm 13:53:58 Yeah, that should be fine then. 13:54:12 :) good. 13:54:17 what is the default size? 14:03:05 whats the default code size? :) 14:54:08 --- join: crc (~crc@AC88B809.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 14:54:13 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:13:21 --- quit: jdrake ("Snak 4.9.8 IRC For Mac - http://www.snak.com") 15:20:47 --- quit: crc ("I was using TinyIRC! Visit http://www.tinyirc.net/ for more information.") 15:45:22 --- join: gilbertdeb (gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-142.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:22:52 http://developer.apple.com/hardware/pci/pdf/4th_OF_A.pdf 16:23:28 nice short and sweet runthrough of forth.. 16:23:50 kinda nice to review it in these terms, as a beginner 16:25:03 could they have had that PDF more ugly tho ? 16:25:47 c'mon Suzanne, they did their best! 16:26:00 I mean, how else were they going to wow the crowd??? 16:26:09 gilbert, clearly they tried hard to make it ugly 16:26:20 great background, fine bullets, etc ... 16:26:21 --- join: jdrake (jdrake@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 16:27:14 --- quit: I440r_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:27:22 gilbert, i just 'love' the fake fanfold printer lines 16:27:53 Suzanne an aspect I'm sure they thought deeply about before introducing :) 16:27:55 Suzanne: haha 16:28:05 it's oh so marbly though 16:28:23 ian, the problem is... 16:28:39 on a mac, that file is a pain to browse, because the huge marble bitmaps slow rendering to a stop :P 16:29:01 same here.. its taking me like 2 seconds min to page down in Preview.app.. 16:29:05 hehe 16:29:06 now, it might be better with panther's 'super fast PDF rendering' but panther isn't out yet, and i'd like to scroll at more than 1 pixel/minute 16:29:06 --- join: I440r_ (~x@sdn-ap-005txhousP0466.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 16:29:11 * gilbertdeb is reading up on literate programming. 16:29:17 I'm hmming a lot at it. 16:29:19 preview is terrible 16:29:21 good hmming. 16:29:22 im glad it has that. osx should 16:29:27 uuter, not in panther, its not 16:29:33 yeah, i know 16:29:41 uuter, but today, yes, its horrible 16:29:44 probably a better PDF stack VM 16:29:45 i just played on a g5 saturday 16:29:49 ahhhh 16:30:09 i gotta have one now.. its like as fast as windows! 16:30:21 uuter, i just hope it speeds up 'help center' because it needs SOMETHING :P 16:30:23 i cant wait for panzer to come out though 16:30:36 ianP do you need the speed? 16:30:37 yeah, takl about bad osx apps.. pick on that one 16:30:40 heh, i never use Help 16:30:42 gilbertdeb - yes 16:30:52 graphx? 16:31:05 uuter theres no way i can stand that crap for moer than a couple links.. i copy the html out of the bundle and view in safari now.. no search.. 16:31:07 hehe 16:31:08 Suzanne: Where are you getting these fake fanfolds from? 16:31:22 kc, umm, by looking at the pdf, with my eyes 16:31:39 there are 'faint' lines in sets of 4 lines each, behind the text 16:31:50 sorry, 5 lines each 16:32:13 I'm looking at it right now, and I just don't see them.' 16:32:38 I see a set of slide show slides, with a tiled marble-esque bitmap behind all the text. 16:32:57 hold on 16:32:57 i have a pdf plugin for safari 16:33:01 yeah, no visible lines here.. though there are in the bitmap 16:33:53 i bet pdfviewer and preview.app render with the same mechanisms though 16:33:55 there is lots of binary data in the pdf 16:34:03 a cocoa view or something no 16:34:05 http://suzannea.dyndns.org/~suzanne/pdf.png 16:34:07 probably 16:34:20 weird 16:34:50 thats using acrobat reader 6 16:35:02 That doesn't appear in mine. 16:35:06 my guess is that preview.app's smoothing gets rid of it 16:35:10 kc, using what to view it ? 16:35:12 * kc5tja will grab a screen shot. 16:35:14 Acrobat 5 16:35:22 oh, Acrobat reader 6 is TERRIBLE 16:35:29 uuter, it is, but... 16:35:32 i needed it for something 16:35:36 yeah 16:35:38 and i still have AR5 on the disk 16:35:41 searhing etc 16:36:02 it contantly sends data to some adobe.com server 16:36:09 even with auto-update off 16:36:26 thats weird 16:36:34 the background looks totally different with AR5 16:36:40 i hex edited the address, to some bogus one, now it blocks for ~30 seconds trying to resolve it 16:37:31 preview.app looks like AR5, and it appears to be a difference in alphablending 16:37:36 but i'm not sure which one is 'right' 16:39:28 since it was authored in 2001, most likely it is supposed to look how it looks in AR5/Preview 16:41:30 interesting 16:42:11 Also, isn't that supposed to look like notebook paper rather than fanfold? :) 16:42:17 Either way, I agree, it's distracting. 16:42:19 Pity. 16:42:37 it would appear from their book, i've implemented my forth backwards :P 16:43:03 i check for a number before i check the dictionary, and yes, i tested it in gforth, i have got it wrong :/ 16:43:27 i had assumed that you'd want to NOT be able to overwrite integers definitions, i guess i was being stupid :/ 16:45:12 btw, let me say this.... ARGH WHY CAN'T ANYONE DECIDE ON A STANDARD 'CLEAR THE STACK' WORD!!! 16:45:29 OF uses 'clear' some ANS systems use 'clearstack' some '0sp' 16:45:52 * kc5tja prefers 'clear', but I never knew most Forths even had one. 16:46:04 i use 0sp... 16:46:10 Does gforth use 0sp? 16:46:14 but most of that is cos its a hell of a lot faster to 'type' on my palm :P 16:46:17 kc, clearstack 16:46:24 Ahh 16:46:31 Wonderful. :) 16:47:07 granted, its just 'depth 0 ?do drop loop' but still, can't we have a standard word? 16:51:46 : 0sp sp0 @ sp! ; 16:51:52 :) 16:52:02 or just type 82974aliheflua and hit enter :) 16:53:07 ugh typical ans bullshit - instead of '0sp' zero the stack they hagve to spell it out in full "clearh_the_damned_parameter_stack" 16:53:09 duh 16:53:21 i440, heh 16:53:43 its for all those lamer c drag and drop coders who freak out at @ and ! 16:53:55 i440, i'm waiting for the upcoming sexual harassment case against ANS 16:53:58 I like the File wordset; OPEN-THE-DAMNED-FILE-SO-WE-CAN-PISS-OFF-I440R_-YET-AGAIN is a wonderful word. :D 16:54:30 I440r_: You know full-well that that's not the reason they use long names. 16:54:39 * kc5tja notes: vocabularies are optional in ANS Forth. 16:54:56 lol 16:55:02 Hence, OPEN is ambiguous in an implementation of ANS Forth without them. 16:55:22 i wasnt going to implement them in isforth but after seeing the "words" fill up with all that crap i decided i better 16:55:27 alot of cruft words in there 16:55:40 * kc5tja is just ignoring ANS completely. 16:55:52 Words that happen to be the same in both mine and ANS are just coincidences. 16:55:53 * Suzanne prepares to sue i440 for sexual harassment too 16:56:04 kc, i'm starting to take the same approach 16:56:15 Suzanne: What about the sexual harassment charges? 16:56:30 s/the/these/ 16:56:32 it comes down to 'i could spend 6 months implementing stuff in ANS i don't even understand, for a personal project, or i could just say 'to hell with it' and make it 'forth-ish' 16:56:33 eh ? 16:56:38 kc, 'cliteral' 16:56:49 C literal? 16:56:52 Oh. Heh ;) 16:56:55 I didn't even notice that. 16:56:56 oh 16:57:00 kc, yet i see no word starting with penis in there, its harassment!! 16:57:07 har har har 16:57:15 i dont think i implemented c literals in isfortth! 16:57:15 the Pen is broken 16:57:17 there. 16:57:19 isforth 16:57:32 gilbert, thats logo, and you damned well know it!! :P 16:57:34 mine isnt 16:57:39 you speak for yourself! 16:57:41 hahaha 16:57:41 Hey, don't knock Logo. 16:57:49 Logo is a Lisp dialect that is fully functional to boot. 16:57:53 :) 16:57:58 isnt that like LEGO :) 16:58:07 Heh. Lego my logo. :) 16:58:11 kc5tja ever read the three books by harvey? 16:58:27 * kc5tja was shocked to learn the list-processing facilities that Logo had in it. I was like, dude...that's insane amounts of power for a language to teach kids. 16:58:30 gilbertdeb: No. 16:58:34 * kc5tja never used logo. 16:58:47 I almost went to get them from the library today. 16:58:49 * Suzanne used logo a couple of times 16:58:50 but I got lazy... 16:59:03 wanted to see what the noise about the books were. 16:59:06 once had to deal with a plotter that used it... 16:59:16 heheh, a VERY small noise. almost a whisper. 16:59:19 Suzanne: Oh, that's intriguing. 16:59:23 Suzanne no way! 16:59:36 * kc5tja thinks Logo would make a wonderful pen-plotter control language. :D 16:59:42 har har har kc5tja. 16:59:50 gilbertdeb: I'm serious. 16:59:56 kc5tja but it already _is_ 17:00:01 kc, it does, but it does complicate the plotter electronics a little 17:00:01 No, it's not. 17:00:10 because stepper motors tend not to work in angles 17:00:14 PCL is as close as you'll get. 17:00:15 I think they had real turtles crawling on paper somewhere in england a while back. 17:00:29 Suzanne: Yeah. It'd have to be emulated. 17:00:51 But most plotters have step resolutions so fine (thanks to screw-drives on the pen) that it oughtn't make too big a difference. 17:00:51 kc5tja only problem is that it had an umbilical that got in the way every now and then. 17:01:00 gilbertdeb: Yep. 17:01:01 kc, but, otoh, it makes sense as you can teach logo 'on screen' and just redirect the program to the plotter and get pretty much the exact screen drawing on paper 17:01:14 a wireless model shouldn't be hard to implement should it? 17:01:25 gilbert, not really, no, should be easyish 17:01:31 gilbertdeb: No, it would be trivial with today's technology. 17:01:48 Suzanne: Yeah. I can see Logo as the pen-plotter's equivalent of Postscript for bitmapped printers. 17:01:49 kc5tja but notice logo getting less attention now that technology has caught up to it :D 17:02:17 we also had a CAM setup that took logo and converted it to its native command set 17:02:27 but that was optional, and most of us just wrote our CAM programs in its native commands 17:02:45 * kc5tja wishes he had a machining setup he could use. 17:02:58 * kc5tja would be hacking up a Stirling engine-powered model R/C car right about now. :D 17:03:02 kc, me too 17:03:25 i'm too lazy to knock together an XYZ board for my dremel :P 17:03:43 we had one but my father dropped it 17:03:48 lathe drill mill 17:03:49 and too cheap to pay someone else $800 to knock one together... 17:03:56 dremel? 17:03:57 whats one? 17:04:00 $5000 down the tubes in 2 seconds 17:04:41 gilbert, a dremel is a small (handheld) 'multi-purpose tool' (basically a small drill with a fixed chuck size and lots of different tool options) 17:05:02 fixed chuck size 17:05:02 Suzanne: And HIGH RPMs. 17:05:04 Hmmm. 17:05:09 kc, yeah 17:05:09 luckily, it is in contest. 17:05:11 Dremel got its fame in dentist drills, IIRC. 17:05:18 kc, insanely high RPM, 27,000rpm ;/ 17:05:54 kc, that would explain their obsession with flexible tip accessories :P 17:06:07 flexible tip. 17:06:12 those are good for doing checkering with too! 17:06:13 * gilbertdeb has closed his mind for the moment. 17:06:32 and engraving, the high speed means teh bit doesnt walk 17:06:37 yeah 17:06:40 it just goes where you aim it! 17:06:57 I have an article in one of my QST magazines about using a 0.005" grinding wheel with a Dremel to make circuit boards for surface-mount components in ham radio quite cheaply. 17:07:03 they're good for doing thru-hole PCBs for the same reason 17:07:20 you don't REALLY need to punch the pads, though i still do, out of habit :P 17:07:48 Basically, you start with a flat copper-clad board, and you grind away straight lines, creating giant pads that multiple components connect to as needed. 17:07:56 kc, that sounds like a 'fun' way of solving an easy problem :P 17:08:13 SMT isn't 'fun' no matter how you look at it. 17:08:22 kc, its not like spending $30 on a photo-etch kit is easy or anything :P 17:08:27 This is the most approachable method to building circuits with SMT that I've found yet. 17:08:56 A photo-etch kit is nice as long as you don't etch away the thinnest parts of your circuits in the process. 17:09:14 kc, well, i could get 10 mil traces reliably, with a little practice 17:09:37 Hand-drawn or computer-aided?> 17:09:46 computer-aided 17:10:00 print from laser to transparency, and photo-etch from there 17:10:14 Not many hams can do computer-aided. A lot of them barely know how to operate the trash can on their desktop, let alone even a semi-sophisticated circuit design tool. 17:10:53 * kc5tja gets so pissed off listening to the local 2m repeater; it's like that's all they talk about is their computer woes and the horrible traffic conditions. 17:10:57 So utterly boring. 17:11:45 heh, MS push back longhorn release again 17:11:52 must be taking them longer than they thought to rip-off apple 17:12:11 heh 17:12:31 hahah Suzanne. 17:12:47 and it still looks pretty crappy visually 17:12:50 the leaks i saw 17:12:56 ian, indeed, looks awful 17:13:07 c'mon they'll fix it soon enough! 17:13:08 and the whole idea of running win32 apps in emulation, urgh 17:13:13 at least apple is halfway functional.. 17:13:14 thats what the patches are for, people! 17:13:24 just don't forget to get your hot patches. 17:13:28 winxp is hilarious 17:13:38 gilbert, doesn't matter, they're talking about 2006-2007 now, so they'll be irrelevant by then, i hope 17:13:43 if i dont close a search windows in explorer.. it just sits there with the stupid dog wagging his tail 17:13:52 ian, its not 'just sitting there' 17:13:56 and makes this annoying little page shuffling (in a book) sound or something every 5 minutes 17:14:04 ian, if you watch carefully, its sucking up all your CPU time watching for new matches 17:14:06 yeah, hes "looking something up for me" or something 17:14:14 ah, well.. 17:14:24 that is true 17:14:55 you'd think they could at least TELL you its looking for new matches 17:15:03 but no, most people assume 'finished' == 'doing nothing' 17:15:27 and you get people bitching about how slow their system is, look, and notice the 10 'finished' search windows *sigh* 17:17:09 On what processors is Longhorn going to run? 17:17:39 kc5, dunno 17:18:03 kc, it runs .NET natively, so MS want to 'divorce themselves from x86' so who knows 17:18:09 kc5tja when it comes out, 5 Gig of ram, 5 Gigahertz CPU should be affordable enough :D 17:18:25 Suzanne so they're massively integrating. 17:18:39 gilbertdeb: Well, the reason I ask is no matter which x86-64 or EPIC architecture you go with, it'll probably be better to run Win32 programs in emulation. 17:18:55 methinks they're trying to introduce Sally User and The Common Man in the streets to enterprise resource planning :D 17:18:56 x86-64's 32-bit "backward compatible" mode isn't 100% binary compatible with existing 32-bit applications. 17:19:23 And EPIC is 100% wholesale incompatible with x86 anyway, so . . . 17:19:33 when will users protest loudly enough to reclaim their dos 2.2's? 17:20:03 What they'll end up doing is resurrecting the FX/32 code that appeared in DEC Alpha version of Windows NT. 17:20:05 gilbert, probably when they see the 3GHz G5 toasting everything else, around next summer ;) 17:20:22 kc, when intel 'bought' the part of DEC that did FX/32 i thought that was their reason 17:20:38 kc, apparently, intel can't even think of such obvious things as USING the IP they buy 17:20:53 or FX!32 actually, i think it is :) 17:20:54 They bought DEC because of their semiconductor fab process. 17:21:06 kc, they bought *bits* of DEC 17:21:12 Yes. 17:21:13 the fab processes was one bit they bought 17:21:15 They bought the fab. :) 17:21:21 and the FX!32 team was another 17:21:22 And the technology behind it. 17:21:27 * kc5tja nods 17:21:29 cleary intel figured they had a use for FX!32 17:21:32 Which is licensed to Microsoft for use with NT. 17:21:38 but they seem to have forgotten *shrug* 17:22:00 there again... 17:22:06 Suzanne: Not entirely; they might be using some of the IP with the Merced's ability to run x86 code in hardware emulation. 17:22:10 this is a company that *just recently* released a 16bit 486 17:22:18 I'm really just gonna stick to linux/freebsd/ thanks. 17:23:25 i still fail to see exactly who would want the 486GX 17:23:38 It's a pity how many outstanding CPU technologies just disappeared because of some company buying the rights to them, then letting the product slowly die. Such is the life of a monopoly. 17:23:48 Suzanne: Embedded developers usually. 17:23:50 Suzanne embedded machines 17:23:54 as embedded chips go, its a bit of a turkey, i mean, it doesn't have the power to compete with the Pentium embedded, and its too complex for the low-end stuff 17:23:55 touche kc5tja 17:23:55 What is it, a 486 without protected mode or something? 17:24:06 kc, a 486SX with a 16bit data bus 17:24:28 So it's a 32-bit processor, but with a 16-bit external databus then. 17:24:39 kc, basically, yes 17:24:43 OK. 17:24:54 If it didn't have the protected mode stuff in it, then I'd truely be baffled. :) 17:25:12 kc, the 386EX was another 'strange' chip 17:25:19 it was a 386 with a 64MB limitation 17:25:25 * kc5tja nods 17:25:27 oh im familiar with that 17:25:31 embedded 386 17:25:32 I think for laptops. 17:25:43 Reduced pin count meant less traces to route on the motherboard. 17:25:45 no, as i440 says, it was targetted towards embedded stuff 17:25:56 my sampler runs all of its code on a 386EX :) 17:26:14 ive worked on one on a contract 17:26:35 now, the embedded pentium is a nice chip 17:26:39 anyway im off to the outback stk house for phood! 17:26:42 im starved 17:26:45 266Mhx + MMX + no stupid PCI/AD bus 17:26:46 I440r_: Damn you!!! 17:26:52 Mhz, even 17:26:59 MHz technically 17:27:04 kc, that too 17:27:06 PCI/AD bus? 17:27:06 why do'nt they like MIPS or even SPARCS for that sort of thing? 17:27:18 lol are you hungry kc ??? :) 17:27:21 gilbertdeb: Because Intel is addicted to money. 17:27:24 kc, the Pentium and up use a multiplexed AD bus that is designed to be pretty much 1:1 with PCI bus 17:27:28 ill save you some ribs... stripped of the good part that is :) 17:27:31 I440r_: With less than $15 in my bank account?? 17:27:34 I440r_: You bet I am. 17:27:44 kc, so you need a 'bus controller' chipset to do simple embedded stuff 17:28:16 Suzanne: Makes sense to me. Intel's CPUs have always been multiplexed buses; it makes sense to me to use PCI (or, more correctly, AGP) for that sort of thing. 17:28:19 damn - get over here - ill buy :/ 17:28:31 kc, no, the 386 and 486 weren't multiplexed 17:28:54 * kc5tja isn't aware of a single "unmultiplexed" desktop-class CPU except for the 386. 17:28:59 * kc5tja remembers the 486 as being multiplexed. 17:29:00 anyway, 'AD bus' is a mess 17:29:04 But I could be wrong. 17:29:25 you have to parse the control signals and determine the state that the AD bus is in, and the intent of what it is doing 17:29:27 Most RISCs are also multiplexed -- PowerPCs are the only exception I can think of. 17:29:33 * kc5tja nods 17:29:35 yeah, the MIPs are ADC bus 17:29:37 Which is fine for a desktop CPUs. 17:29:53 MIPs is prett similar to intel's AD bus, with some differences 17:29:57 I don't even mind it for embedded stuff as long as the C-bus is simple enough. 17:30:13 kc, ahem, yes, well, 9bits of C bus for MIPs :P 17:30:24 Versus a lot more for Intel and PowerPC. 17:30:36 i think intel use 8 or 9 bits too, actually 17:30:36 Even with split buses. 17:30:58 anyway 17:31:03 the embedded pentium is free of that 17:31:08 it has true seperate A and D buses 17:31:12 and still keeps a 64bit D bus 17:31:13 * kc5tja really likes the 6502/65816 bus architecture. 17:31:38 It is the very definition of simplicity. 17:31:53 i prefer the Z80 bus 17:32:02 but its probably as much 'what you grew up with' as anything 17:32:19 * kc5tja doesn't like the Z-80 bus. 4 clocks per memory cycle is just too wasteful for me. 17:32:53 kc, its still not as bad as the 8051 :P 17:32:59 Though I do appreciate its built-in DRAM refresh. 17:33:04 Suzanne fyi you had an ABNORMAL child hood if you grep up with chips :D 17:33:05 Yeah, 12 clocks per. >:( 17:33:19 gilbertdeb: You do know that I'm abnormal, right? 17:33:27 kc5tja I'm quite sure. 17:33:35 Just checking. 17:33:39 what with all the engine stuph and the internals of internals stuff :D 17:33:46 gilbert, do you think i'd be in #forth if i had an NORMAL childhood ? 17:33:51 hehhehe 17:33:59 ERM DONT KNOT THE 8051! 17:34:04 erm caps oopts 17:34:09 check out www.cygnal.com 17:34:16 i440, i try not to 'knot' chips at all 17:34:18 1 clock per and 25 mhz 17:34:23 thats what rope is for :P 17:34:31 knock even 17:34:36 the 8051 rocks 17:34:38 i440, i'll still take a AVR any day over a 8051 of any speed :P 17:34:47 intel make REALY good controllers but cucky processors 17:35:10 hey Suzanne have you played with fpga's? 17:35:15 where as motorola make sucky controllers and realy good processors heh 17:35:20 gilbert, not as such, no 17:35:21 * gilbertdeb feels as if he's asked that question before. 17:35:21 anyway the outback is --> 17:35:34 gilbert, i've done some CPLD stuff, but not FPGA stuff, not directly anyway 17:36:25 as soon as I save up enough $$$, I'm going to get an fpga kit to play with. 17:36:41 saving up three figures is going to be tricky though :| 17:36:46 just buy a commodore-one or something 17:36:58 * Suzanne shrugs 17:37:01 Hmmm? 17:37:06 I440r_: I disagree with your assessment of Motorola's controllers. 17:37:09 i paid $500 for my CPLD kit, and that didn't even include an eval board 17:37:47 gilbert, the commodore-one is a 'reconfigurable computer' ie it has a FPGA (2 actually, but only one is 'user programmable') that is loaded to configure the computer 17:37:58 i know they dont suck, i jsut prefer the 8051 to all of themhhe 17:38:04 bbl 17:38:16 Suzanne you don't say! 17:38:25 Are they actually selling? 17:38:33 As in, is the company behind it actually making a profit? 17:38:40 umm I suppose the Transmeta's are similar no? 17:38:43 kc, i dunno if they're shipping yet, you'd have to check their website 17:38:43 wow, gforth has the words: rows & cols. now, i can make my color editor adapting 2 the window size! 17:38:58 Suzanne I thought you were referring to the commodore-1 of old. 17:39:15 gilbert, no, the new 'super C64' project 17:39:19 gilbertdeb: ?? I grew up with Commodore computers, practically -- I've never heard of a Commodore-4. 17:39:22 -1 even 17:39:29 There was the Commodore +4, and the Commodore 16. 17:39:34 But that's as low as I remember them ever going. 17:39:54 gilbert, http://c64upgra.de/c-one 17:40:12 kc5tja I meant commodore's in general :D 17:40:20 Suzanne> gilbert, do you think i'd be in #forth... 17:40:30 onetom hehehhee. 17:40:41 i gave holonforth 2 me father some days ago 17:40:53 kc, i think there was a 'Commodore 1' from around the PET/SuperPET/900 days 17:41:06 last night he told me that he gave holon 2 my sister (who was born in 1991...) 17:41:19 --- quit: jdrake ("Snak 4.9.8 IRC For Mac - http://www.snak.com") 17:41:29 kc, but then, commodore did a lot of weird hardware that hardly anyone ever heard about 17:42:26 Suzanne die site is tord 17:42:44 tord ? 17:43:37 sounds like Icelandic for 'shit' 17:43:40 the site is not coming up. 17:43:48 uuter I don't speak icelandic ... 17:44:00 niether do i 17:44:01 but now that you mention it, how is bjork doing? 17:44:03 :) 17:44:03 gilbert, hmmm, loaded ok here 17:45:31 Suzanne what do you use your cpld for? 17:45:47 atm, nothing :P 17:46:01 i bought them for something i never got around to building 17:46:31 Suzanne how different are they from fpga? 17:46:55 well, a CPLD divides the logic gates into 'cells' 17:47:25 each cell contains a number of units of each type, ie a couple of counters, a couple of 8bit registers, a bunch of nands, etc 17:47:57 the result is that they're not as flexible as a fpga, but they are cheaper and in some ways, easier to work with 17:48:02 Hmmm, that sounds suspiciously like the ad I read for the fpga :D 17:48:11 re: logic gates into 'cells' 17:48:33 some of the cheaper FPGAs may be CPLDs with a different 'name', i guess 17:48:41 gilbertdeb: FPGAs are RAM-based CPLDs on steroids. 17:48:58 ah okay. 17:49:04 kc, not all of them 17:49:31 From a conceptual point of view. 17:50:06 most of the big FPGAs don't divide the gates into cells, afaik 17:52:55 at least, not in the 'higher level' way a CPLD does 17:54:14 Yeah, most use a "sea of gates" model don't they? 17:54:30 (which actually predates the CPLD development) 17:54:42 yeah 17:55:04 CPLDs are fine if you're doing 'small logic' stuff, ie, something that fits between a PAL/GAL and a FPGA 17:55:14 but its easy to get annoyed :) 17:55:41 if you, for example, buy a 1024 cell CPLD, and don't need 1024 bytes of register, then you're going to have a lot of gates sitting unused no matter how you try 17:56:58 or, if you need something that could easily be done with a few thousand gates, but need more registers than you have cells :) 17:56:59 Hmmm 17:57:01 Interesting. 17:57:17 I wasn't aware of that. 17:57:35 I knew that layout and routing were major issues with FPGAs, but with CPLDs, it appears to be an even worse constraint. 17:57:49 kc, basically, a CPLD is like a group of circuit boards, which have X interconnects + a selection of various 74 level chips on the board 17:57:49 However, a 16-bit CPU was implemented in a simple/smallish CPLD once. :) 17:57:51 Steamer16. 17:58:09 you connect the interconnects between the cells, and get what function you want on each cell (board) 17:58:10 * kc5tja nods 17:58:34 kc, on the other hand tho... 17:58:52 the 'fixed cell' approach of a CPLD makes it easier for the software to determine optimal usage 17:59:10 * kc5tja nods 17:59:26 I just wish programming information for these chips would be made openly available. 17:59:40 And standardized (to some reasonable extent) 18:02:45 --- quit: I440r_ (No route to host) 18:08:49 * kc5tja just recovered my CUT-specific Wiki (my personalized version of Piki) from SourceForge. 18:08:58 * kc5tja could have sworn I had a local copy of it on my box, but apparently not. :/ 18:09:26 * kc5tja is thinking of setting up a simple (and slightly restricted) Wiki on my company's website for my personal stuff. 18:20:31 Does anyone know whether KDE runs well with a window manager other than K's default window manager? 18:21:50 kc5tja I think so. 18:22:09 I don't recall icewm playing nicely though. 18:22:23 * kc5tja is thinking of using KDE in his next Linux installation on this box, and I want to continue to use the Ion window manager. 18:23:34 that might be an odd choice tbh 18:23:44 tbh? 18:23:49 To be honest 18:23:53 * gilbertdeb nods 18:24:03 Well, I'm currently using Gnome applications and Ion works well with it. 18:24:12 Ion is completely independent of any dedicated desktop environment. 18:24:26 I like how every application I run under it is full-screen. 18:24:34 (minus the tab selections at the top, but...) 18:24:37 but the question is, will kde like it? 18:25:43 nice, so you don't have floating windows? 18:27:18 No 18:27:27 gilbertdeb: I don't know. 18:28:36 i dig that 18:29:08 hehhe, when I use 9wm or twm, I tend to not want anything else marring its looks. 18:29:51 I don't care about looks. 18:30:01 I just never, ever want to have to resize, reposition, or depth-arrange a window ever again. 18:30:13 9wm doesn't qualify for that. 18:30:41 im with you on that kc 18:30:56 why is that? 18:31:06 what if you want 3 screens vertically arranged? 18:31:08 Actually, I do care somewhat about looks -- the window manager cannot have 16-pixel thick window borders, nor do I appreciate using 3-D acceleration to create Phong-shaded window title bars. 18:31:28 gilbertdeb: Ion is a tabbed and paned window manager. I "just create" them as needed. 18:31:51 gilbertdeb: And when I'm done with them, I dispose of them. Nothing more really need be said about it. It "just works." 18:32:31 kc5tja I'm thinking of a situation where I'm reading a man page and typing things into an xterm at the same time. 18:32:41 I wouldn't like to switch back and forth ... 18:32:48 or is that possible? 18:33:46 gilbertdeb: ALT-K ALT-K will toggle between two application views. 18:34:00 ion rocks 18:34:02 The window manager can be completely (yes, as in *completely*) controlled by the keyboard. 18:34:14 kc5tja as is evilwm. 18:34:26 ion is not for me then. 18:34:44 I use it at work on dual 21" monitors 18:34:47 gilbertdeb: Or you can create two panes, and create a text editor in one, and a shell prompt in another. 18:34:49 It's up to you. 18:35:04 fridge: *nod* 18:35:21 I only have a single 17" monitor. 18:35:22 kc5tja you might like rio 18:35:36 gilbertdeb: I've looked at Rio's screen shots. I still have to move/manipulate windows. Iick. 18:36:02 kc5tja but with a paned 'tab', you run the program in its xterm ... 18:36:10 it doesn't pop open yet another window. 18:36:20 At least it wasn't so bad on the Amiga, because most applications opened their own screens. But on a system that doesn't support depth-arrangable screens, it's clumsy. 18:37:07 gilbertdeb: With a paned, tabbed window manager (note: do NNOOTT confuse paned 'tab' or tabbed 'pane' -- it is a paned AND tabbed window manager -- arbitrary numbers of tabs exist in arbitrary panes) 18:37:16 gilbertdeb: With Ion, you just don't care about that. 18:37:40 Who cares if it opens another window? It'll be full-screen, just like its predecessor window, so it's not an issue. 18:38:02 it would be co9ol if 'screen' was a bit more powerful 18:38:10 kc5tja my beef is that I have to switch to it deliberately with the mouse or the keyboard. 18:38:23 ie when it opens another tab. 18:38:59 ianP: Yeah. 18:39:06 gilbertdeb: Not with ion you don't. 18:39:32 gilbertdeb: Where are you getting this from anyway? I've never ever ever met a window manager that didn't auto-activate the most recently opened window. 18:40:40 Though, I do have to admit that I like the concept of programs running in their own shell windows. 18:40:55 Hence, I'm not arguing against you in any way. I fully agree, that'd be the next step for me. 18:41:13 But I will not give up my panes and tabs. The job of managing windows is the window manager's -- not me. 18:42:40 ianP: Frankly, it'd be cool if Linux got its head out of its arse and implemented a real terminal system. For Christ's sake, we're still using an OS which thinks the latest display technology is teletypes and VT-100s. *sigh* 18:42:49 yeah 18:42:55 This is where Plan-9's console handling is so nice. 18:43:04 NO ANSI control codes, NO cursor controls, etc. 18:43:04 id like to see that 18:43:06 --- nick: SDO -> int_main 18:43:14 yeah, it's a nightmare 18:43:22 Everything is done using /dev/bitmap, /dev/keyboard, and /dev/mouse. 18:43:24 --- nick: int_main -> beapp 18:44:12 kc5tja with rio etc, they're using /dev/cons 18:44:14 * kc5tja thinks SDO is trying to espouse BeOS here; but even BeOS has an inkling of 30-year old heritage; its terminals support ANSI control codes. 18:44:20 but yeah, it is much nicer. 18:44:33 gilbertdeb: /dev/bitmap by any other name, is but as pixelly. 18:44:38 :) 18:45:18 Does /dev/cons handle input AND output? Or do they still have a separate /dev/keyboard and /dev/mouse as well? 18:45:42 they keyboard and mouse remain 18:45:45 *the 18:45:49 OK. 18:45:51 Just wondering about that. 18:51:56 Crap. I got only a small fraction of what I wanted to do done today. 18:53:37 it is almost 10pm! 18:53:40 my day is _Gone_ 18:53:49 I have to go read some more of Lila soon.... 18:53:53 Well, it's a holiday Monday, so *nothing* is open. 18:54:20 * kc5tja still has to do some more Calc-II homework (I'm trying to get homework done ahead of schedule, to keep up for when the really HARD stuff comes around) 18:57:55 ok, glad you think that's hard.... 18:58:11 i took it when i was young, didnt try hard enough, got a D i think 18:58:21 wasnt easy though, damn 18:58:50 ianP either pilot error or flight control error or manual error occured :) 18:59:00 I got consistently good grades in math, and Calc-II I got a C in. 18:59:02 So don't feel too bad. 18:59:09 I consider a D with zero effort to be borderline genious. :) 18:59:40 Still, this is the second time I'm taking the Calc series, because it's been 10 years since I last took it. 18:59:46 well, there you go 18:59:52 And I'm going for a Physics degree, so I'll be living this stuff for some time in the future. 18:59:58 kc5tja which book are you using? 19:00:00 oh, damn nevermind 19:00:06 cool 19:00:10 i took it in high school though :P 19:00:14 gilbertdeb: "Calculus, Fourth Edition" by James Stewart. 19:00:19 The worst Calc book ever written. 19:00:21 man it was so boring 19:00:21 ianP CalC II in high school? 19:00:23 (imnsho) 19:00:29 yeah.. ib/ap 19:00:36 maybe lwess intensive then 19:00:43 kc5tja ha! I've seen that book before. 19:00:45 gilbertdeb: I had only calc-I in HS; I took Calc-II at Clarkson University back in 1992. 19:00:45 was still scary to me sometimes 19:00:52 Infact, I have an as yet unread old edition. 19:01:25 ianP still, calc-ii in high school is rather unusual even for ap I think. 19:01:28 Calc 3 is the easiest of all the Calcs though. Trivially simple, once you wrap your mind around 3D (and, rarely, 4D) objects. :) 19:01:37 gilbertdeb - yeah, i think so too 19:01:41 gilbertdeb: AP is known to be over-achievers. 19:01:47 kc5tja I never went to my calc class in school, so i taught myself calc 1. 19:01:51 my school was prety advanced for a public hs 19:01:58 it was much like algebra ... 19:02:09 for some reason i suck at math i think 19:02:13 heh 19:02:22 i guess i havent taken any of that stuff in forever though 19:02:29 I don't think SDO's server is optimized for huge file transfers. I keep getting disconnected. :) 19:02:32 like i failed all 10 of the trig questions trying to place into calc in college 19:02:36 ianP as i said: either pilot error, or flight control error, or manual error can be blamed :D 19:02:36 Thankfully, wget is auto-resuming. 19:02:38 i was just like.. shit.. 19:02:50 Yeah. 19:03:01 you guys have to know this? :P 19:03:07 gimme open book 19:03:09 Math has always been my strong point throughout history too, but entry into Mira Costa college placed my math at 50%, and my English at 100%. :D 19:03:25 THey were like, "WOW! We never seen anyone get 100% on the English placement exam ever!" 19:03:42 Meanwhile, while they were thoroughly ecstatic, I was downright pissed for getting 50% on the math. :D 19:03:46 * kc5tja could care less about the English. :D 19:03:56 nah, english is mui importante 19:04:05 Well, yes, but it's also trivially easy. 19:04:09 For me at least. 19:04:22 I didn't care where I placed with it, because I knew that I would easily test out of various classes. 19:05:01 kc5tja 'trivially easy', but so many man pages and so much else on the web make it seem non-trivial. 19:06:00 --- join: I440r_ (~x@sdn-ap-007txhousP0117.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 19:06:04 --- quit: I440r_ (Client Quit) 19:06:35 English is a hard language. 19:06:44 It's one of the hardest languages in the world to learn. 19:07:02 writing it clearly and succinctly is hard. 19:07:03 Fortunately, I know it. 19:07:19 I don't think it qualifies as one of the hardest languages to learn though. 19:07:23 gilbertdeb: Yes, no author, regardless of language, can instantly write eloquent prose the first time in a matter of seconds. 19:07:34 gilbertdeb: You haven't spoken with many English professors then. 19:07:44 --- join: I440r_ (~x@sdn-ap-007txhousP0117.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 19:07:45 (let alone linguists) 19:08:00 Chinese is still #1, but English ranks easily within the top 5. 19:08:04 gilbert, english's problems are that it is very vague at times, and it is also multi-pathed 19:08:07 kc5tja I have spoken to quite a few english professors. 19:08:21 Suzanne that I understand, but I still say there are far harder languages. 19:08:36 gilbert, kc didn't say 'the hardest of them all' 19:08:38 The English "articles" can take many people in Asia up to 20 years of study to master before they finally "get it." 19:08:44 he said 'one of the hardest' and that is pretty accurate :) 19:08:45 one of the hardest languages 19:08:49 I still do not think so. 19:08:50 --- join: jdrake (~jdrake@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 19:08:56 hungarian is harder, iirc 19:09:10 and many others besides. 19:09:11 hungarian notatyion??? :) 19:09:11 gilbertdeb: Dude, go out on the 'net, and do the research yourself. Look this stuff up. It's publically available documentation. 19:09:16 yellowdog seems a little short of utilities like apt-get :-0 19:09:16 notation even heh 19:09:40 jdrake hi - you new in here? 19:09:40 kc5tja, I absosmurfly disagree. it is hard to master, that I agree with. 19:09:43 jdrake, so, mandrake worked out great then ? :) 19:09:53 debian all the way :))) 19:09:56 yellowdog it was :-) 19:10:04 debian froze before kernel booted 19:10:17 otherwise I would apt-get install gforth by now 19:10:21 I'm tempted to say 'english is poorly designed' :D 19:10:21 shouldnt have - what did you to to b0rk it ? 19:10:35 jdrake, just get the source tarball and compile it :P 19:10:38 I440r_: I am relatively new to forth 19:10:56 i am just trying to learn it, maybe do some system programming 19:11:10 cool! 19:11:24 anyone new to forth cant be all that bad, at least they discovered forth :) 19:11:37 jdrake how did you come upon it? 19:11:40 tell us a story :) 19:11:49 * Suzanne has been trying to get her head around call/cc in scheme, all day 19:11:53 with little success 19:12:03 RicciAdams showed me a little when I was showing him some scheme 19:12:03 gilbertdeb: Try teaching English irregular verbs to someone who doesn't speak a word of English. 19:12:14 gilbertdeb: They will be hopelessly confused. 19:12:26 kc5tja Try teaching Georgian to someone who doesn't speak a word of georgian! 19:12:36 gilbertdeb: Georgian is...? 19:12:44 the language spoken in Georgia 19:12:47 the country. 19:12:55 not 'ya'll' 19:12:55 Sure. 19:13:13 But I'll guarantee you I'll pick up Georgian much faster than a Georgian will pick up English. 19:13:18 Almost certainly guaranteed. 19:13:26 kc5tja I'm not so sure ... 19:13:35 gilbertdeb: Dude, there are *volumes* documenting this. 19:13:43 kc5tja I say they are biased! 19:13:45 Don't just doubt me; do the research yourself. 19:13:50 i believe Herkamire was developing something I could use eventually 19:13:50 gilbertdeb: Bull shit! 19:13:57 a booting forth environment for ppc 19:14:01 kc5tja English isn't THAT hard. 19:14:05 hell, just talk to a few furriners :) 19:14:07 it would be nice to try to write kernel stuff in forth 19:14:16 a little memorization here and there and you'll be fine. 19:14:18 i've confused a belgian in a greeting before :P 19:14:24 Whatever. 19:14:32 gilbertdeb: A *LITTLE*!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? 19:14:35 :) 19:14:40 gilbertdeb: Do you know how many irregularities exist in English? 19:14:41 gilbert, the problem is, most other languages are single-pathed 19:14:56 gilbert, as such, their mind is trained to expect a single-path 19:15:10 french is kind of bad for irregulars too 19:15:13 its not just 'memorising words' 19:15:19 kc5tja english has been influenced by the germans, french, dutch, normans, saxons, romans, greeks and so on. 19:15:24 gilbertdeb: Tough versus through -- how do you explain this to a speaker of a phonetic language? 19:15:43 gilbertdeb: Yes, and that's precisely WHY it's so damn hard for non-native speakers to learn. 19:15:46 surely, with so much influence, it is quite confusing. 19:15:57 Learning English is like learning all those languages all at once. 19:16:12 again, I can't agree on that ... 19:16:13 kc, the one that always blew my mind was dutch 19:16:13 And to make matters worse, English evolved purely as a SPOKEN language, not a written language like Latin. 19:16:29 you learn some aspect of each of those languages. 19:16:29 Hence, there are TONS of irregularities which probably originated purely as spoken dialectical differences. 19:16:46 kc, for nearly a year i sat next to a terminal spewing out error messages in dutch, 95% of the time, i could read it if i thought of the word phonetically, its just 'close enough' to english in many cases 19:16:49 kc5tja Lisp behaves as such sometimes ;) 19:16:52 Those who spoke English were illiterate back when it first came to be. 19:16:53 kc5 well it is based on so many other languages, its just a hodge podge language 19:16:56 common Lisp and ans forth :D 19:17:20 kc5tja yeah, they were Poore spellers 19:17:25 could I have a linux desktop environment that is not a bloody redmond ripoff? 19:17:36 jdrake, no 19:17:59 Suzanne where are you reading about call/cc at? 19:18:08 jdrake, well, thats not quite true, you could run GNUstep :P 19:18:10 i know what I have to do, get a kernel together and make a nice os9 clone 19:18:14 are you reading any of the original lambda papers? 19:18:19 whats wrong with windowmaker ? :) 19:18:20 gilbert a variety of places, its very confusing :/ 19:18:29 Suzanne: I have done before, but the apps are not very plentiful 19:18:40 gnustep looks nice with the art backend 19:18:43 jdrake, there used to be a 'System 7' hack for fvwm 19:18:44 Suzanne so you've seen the original lambda papers from which it originated as well? 19:18:56 jdrake, i suspect its long since lost, and would look awful if you could find it 19:18:58 I440r_: windowmaker has problems with keeping icons from bundles 19:18:59 gilbert, i have no idea 19:19:31 yellowdog installed at almost 2.3 gb 19:19:35 that is bloated! 19:19:36 jdrake eh ? 19:19:57 an os should be able to install less than 100mb stock, with a few applications 19:20:07 granted yellowdog installs a lot of applications 19:20:16 jdrake, then you shouldn't have chosen to install kde/gnome/MOL/etc ;P 19:20:30 RISC OS 4.x fits in a 6 MB ROM 19:20:33 Suzanne as in: http://library.readscheme.org/page1.html 19:20:51 just pointing that out in case you hadn't seen it already. 19:21:31 would it be possible to write an OS kernel in forth that provides a basic set interface over two platforms say (ppc and x86), with pretty generic device drivers? 19:21:44 gilbert, actually, i kind of understand call/cc itself 19:21:53 im sure it would be 19:21:55 jdrake there is a forth os you can look at. 19:22:07 works on ppc too? 19:22:07 Open Firmware does it 19:22:18 uuter: source no exist available 19:22:27 heh, SEE 19:22:45 i found a dissasembler 19:23:18 what i think i effectively need is a way to boot into a forth environment, that also provides some psuedo-store for persistance. 19:23:41 jdrake, then write one 19:23:55 you don't especially need a 'complete ANS implementation' or anything like that to get started 19:23:55 Open Firmware will do that for you 19:24:22 uuter, i'm not sure you could write a whole OS in OF tho 19:24:38 there isn't enough space in it i thinkn't 19:24:38 OFW is an OS 19:24:50 you can access the file system 19:25:08 there is even a TCP/IP stack 19:25:18 and a telnet server 19:25:24 tfpt as well i believe 19:25:29 tftp 19:25:46 In Apple's > 3.0 implementations 19:29:07 does anyone remember the website that is Herkamire's? 19:30:36 check the logs 19:30:51 where are they available 19:31:16 http://tunes. 19:31:17 +org/~nef/logs/ 19:33:58 that worked 19:34:00 merci 19:34:09 now if I could figure out copy and paste with xchat 19:36:55 jdrake what do you mean? 19:37:15 is this your first time using linux or am i missing some context here? 19:38:51 i have a single button mouse 19:39:01 Oh I see :) 19:39:06 xchat isn't very cooperative 19:39:09 click Windows, then save buffer . 19:39:13 lol 19:39:33 i don't really like the garbage they seem to pass off for a ui in some *nix programs 19:39:44 its usually how they work together I don't care for 19:40:05 consistancy is priceless 19:40:13 i agree 19:40:20 that is why i like osx a bit 19:40:29 only a bit :) 19:41:10 design by commitee is not really endearing to me either 19:42:14 i wouldn't mind a nice system I could design and stick with it too 19:42:24 yeah 19:42:29 build your own OS 19:42:38 it does not need to be fancy 19:42:48 robust hacking OS 19:42:52 try plan9 19:43:00 i looked at that 19:43:06 its interesting 19:43:27 something simple like macos (earlier versions) 19:43:30 might be nice 19:43:46 yeah, but more CLI than GUI 19:44:18 any one know how to get wget to ignore robots.txt 19:44:32 erm its in the man page 19:44:35 i forget how 19:44:39 uuter plan9 is more cli than gui, but it has both. 19:44:41 theres a switch in there 19:44:47 i know 19:45:03 i tried looking, nothign seeing 19:52:10 jdrake, sadly, its a hidden switch 19:52:13 and i knew it, once 19:52:25 Herkamire put an annoying robots.txt and now wget doesn't want to get anything fom the website 19:55:36 jdrake http://www.cygwin.com/ml/cygwin/2003-02/msg00942.html 19:59:53 merci 19:59:57 but it is a little late 20:01:57 Hath the bison been let out of the barn already and the barn doors locked down with new patches from a certain vendor? 20:02:35 what vendre? 20:02:56 in other words: did you figure it out? 20:03:07 ... or have you given up on d/l the stuff? 20:03:21 i did it manually one by one 20:03:30 and for my trouble i picked up a seg fault 20:03:36 Good good. 20:03:55 a fine collection of those to mount somewhere in your $home 20:04:44 why might this not work as expected? : exit bye compiled 20:04:44 exit compiled 20:04:58 i would expect exit to run bye 20:06:08 : exit bye ; 20:06:23 is exit allready defined? 20:07:18 no idea, but I got another word to work 20:07:50 what Forth are you using? 20:08:13 thisForth, henceForth? backandForth? 20:08:23 isForth? isn'tForth? 20:08:28 ansoForth? 20:08:34 *andsoForth 20:08:53 gforth 20:09:04 it sounds like the best choice for learning more 20:09:15 well, exit is already defined 20:09:22 in a big mess 20:09:41 see exit 20:09:41 : compile-only-error 20:09:41 -14 throw ; 20:09:41 lastxt 20:09:42 : EXIT 20:09:44 exit-like (compile) ;s basic-block-end POSTPONE UNREACHABLE ; 20:09:46 lastxt 20:09:50 interpret/compile EXIT immediate ok 20:09:59 to see if a word is defined 20:10:04 ' WORD-NAME 20:10:15 if it is, it will drop the XT on the stack 20:10:27 erm 20:10:28 Verbose 20:10:32 so if gforth does not error at you, you shoul drop it 20:10:36 ' exit 20:10:36 *the terminal*:9: Cannot tick compile-only word (try COMP' ... DROP) 20:10:36 ' exit 20:10:36 ^^^^ 20:10:36 Backtrace: 20:10:37 $5D4D0 throw 20:10:41 $5D6DC ticking-compile-only-error 20:10:43 $5DCD8 name?int 20:10:48 compile only? 20:11:03 uuter, looks to me like its some kind of exception system 20:11:15 it is 20:11:31 Forth, ANS, at least has exceptions 20:11:41 nasty evil 20:12:26 i have heard that in scheme, you can write scheme in less than 50 lines, how many is it generally for forth? 20:12:35 catch/throw is one of my pet hates 20:13:12 isforth has a way for any exception to notify multiple words (possibly multiple tasks) that the error occurred 20:13:20 not just any error jumpts to one location and that handles everything 20:13:24 yukk 20:13:33 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 20:13:38 actually tho isforth itself doesnt use the mechanism yet 20:16:30 what exactly 'IsForth' 20:17:54 Exceptions have their place. 20:18:14 Contrary to Moore's die-hard philosophy, exceptions are useful for many classes of error handling. 20:18:24 But like any tool, they can be abused. 20:18:42 hmm, abused: c++ operator overloads and templates 20:18:51 its my linux/x86 forth compiler 20:19:01 isforth is why this channel exists heh 20:19:08 int operator - (int a, int b) { return a + b } 20:19:15 i spent an entier YEAR in here alone working on my forth 20:19:25 then futhin stole my channel and everyone shows up :P 20:19:28 lol 20:19:39 didn't you register it ? 20:19:52 It was a voluntary theft as I understand it. 20:20:07 kinda 20:20:16 but i still bitch at him :) 20:20:30 yes i regged it and then deregged it - he then regged it :) 20:20:48 then chuck moore shows up :P 20:20:49 lo; 20:20:58 thats uncool!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 hehe 20:21:13 chuck moore? 20:21:23 he invented Forth 20:21:32 put simply 20:21:44 ya. 20:21:52 i thought it was 'charles' 20:22:07 chuck is short charles i think 20:22:10 his appearance here was definatly the high point of this channel 20:22:11 chuck is a shortened name 20:22:16 chuck is short for charles 20:22:20 short for*though it really only loses one character :P 20:22:24 well, two 20:22:58 two 20:23:01 :P 20:24:11 jdrake isforth.clss.net is where you can get isforth - but it only runs on an x86 based linux box :) 20:26:46 which is no good pour moi 20:27:20 i *could* run it, but i try not to use my x86 linux box ;P 20:27:50 maybe I will implement an interesting forth later after I learn a bit more 20:27:58 clearly, nothing around right now will work for what I need 20:28:24 jdrake what do you need exactly ? 20:29:00 one that runs under OS X? 20:29:18 something that has a chance in hades of booting from OFW at some point and also generates PPC code and provides an assembler 20:29:20 oh 20:29:22 lol 20:29:34 port isforth!!! :) 20:29:44 port, assembly ? :) 20:29:59 uuter, to add support for writing specific hardware functions 20:30:25 jdrake, no... 20:30:34 utter was commenting on the idea of porting something written in assembler 20:30:40 and the insanity of it :P 20:30:57 ? 20:31:06 porting assembler isnt insane 20:31:11 porting c is pure idiocy 20:31:14 i440r, yes, it is :P 20:31:19 assembler is a snap to port 20:31:28 specially7 well written, well commented code like mine :) 20:31:28 why is porting C pure idiocy? 20:31:31 if the 2 architectures are even remotely similar 20:31:45 I440r_ i hear the plan9 C is much nicer than the other C's out there. 20:31:51 doesnt matter 20:32:00 I440r_ you mean self documenting code like yours? :D 20:32:07 porting from asm to asm is a snap 20:32:40 yes. its both self documenting and commented 20:33:50 gtg 20:33:54 Going to my happy place. 20:34:00 :P 20:34:03 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 21:04:07 what exactly does over do? 21:04:31 it grabs the 2nd from the top item on the stack, and plops it on top of the stack 21:04:52 similar to how dup does it on the top? 21:04:59 1 2 3 OVER 1 2 3 2 21:05:04 jdrake: ( a b --- a b a ) 21:05:14 so 1 2 over ==> 1 2 1 21:05:16 or that ;) 21:05:36 k 21:05:41 makes sense now 21:05:51 i should probably be keeping notes 21:06:37 lol 21:07:04 i think i just thought of a nice persistant storage - smartmedia 21:07:16 but somehow i doubt that OF would boot from it 21:07:54 CompactFlash 21:07:55 over is actually also swap dup rot 21:07:59 iirc 21:08:00 its an IDE device 21:08:20 me no have any compact flash stuff 21:08:28 stuff? 21:08:35 how many writes can CF take? 21:08:37 heh, the holder and a disk is all you need 21:08:45 a few million i think 21:08:49 jdrake, a 100,000+ 21:08:51 that can cost some money though 21:08:58 -s 21:09:00 hmm 21:09:01 -a even 21:09:12 a few million or 100,000+? 21:09:34 jdrake, 100,000+ for writers, 'millions' for reads 21:10:15 that still isn't many is it 21:10:38 depends on what you're doing with it :) 21:10:43 i wouldn't want to put swap on one 21:10:59 booting a forth and writing a kernel :-) 21:11:02 im learning elisp... this is kinda painful.. 21:11:11 maybe i should learn scheme or something instead... 21:11:19 or forth hehe 21:12:20 jdrake, newer CF might be better, you'd have to check 21:12:34 but the ones i have, are only guarenteed for 100,000 writes 21:12:54 i have a smartmedia camera, i don't think it is anymore than a 1000 writes 21:14:39 otoh, CF is cheap, and 100,000 writes is a lot, if you are careful about writing to it 21:19:35 jdrake: http://jwoof.com/programming.html 21:21:16 Herkamire: already downloaded it 21:21:25 your robots.txt made it difficult 21:21:45 sorry about that. 21:21:49 and I got a segfault too ;-) 21:21:53 I had no idea that wget does that 21:22:09 there is a way around it, but undocumented 21:22:41 a cvs repository might be useful 21:22:57 it's svn 21:23:04 jdrake, what was the switch to turn off robots.txt compliance ? 21:23:18 it was a wgetrc thing 21:23:33 I can change the robots.txt. I didn't realize you wget payed attention to those, and I'm quite suprised that you can't tell wget to ignore it. 21:25:04 Herkamire: your website is wrong on soemthing - EST is not GMT-4 it is -5 21:25:34 jdrake: thanks. I'm in EDT though... 21:25:46 for another two months or so 21:26:13 jdrake, no, forever :P 21:26:18 EST is always GMT-5 :P 21:26:22 fixed 21:26:34 quick 21:26:41 gotta love rsync :0 21:26:45 can you write me a decent dock for gnome that quick? 21:26:50 yea - rsync is cool 21:27:00 it saved my ass twice today 21:27:07 but a bit obfuscated :) 21:27:09 its a good story... 21:27:13 I just type "bash .sync" then enter my password 21:27:24 .sync has the full rsync call 21:27:44 yellowdog had two install cds, one from march and one from may. the other two cds were from march. 21:27:52 jdrake: sorry to hear you get a segfault. What's your system? 21:28:16 i picked up the march one. Then after it was done decided to get the new one. rsync did it in about 5 minutes tracking the few changes ;-) 21:28:22 Herkamire: emc 21:28:24 Herkamire: emac 21:35:19 EDT is GMT-4 right? and EST is GMT-5? 21:37:18 yes est is -5 21:58:02 --- join: rk (~chris@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 22:18:08 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:20:30 --- join: rk (~chris@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 22:21:10 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:22:15 hi serg! 22:23:32 hi !!! 22:23:48 what's w/ my code, REP etc... ? 22:27:01 that's a nice topic there 22:28:11 lol 22:28:25 rep ? 22:29:00 REP is my word to repeat next word N times 22:29:49 oh - yea, thats a cool word 22:31:59 did you use it ? 22:32:31 not yet, ive been concentrating ont the stuff at work 22:32:41 but ill add it to isforth for sure 22:32:51 plus a cool word they have at work 22:32:55 }# 22:32:55 erm 22:32:59 ]# 22:33:01 what Forth at work ? 22:33:06 ]# ? 22:33:16 they use nothing but forth at work :) 22:33:28 instead of doing [ xyzzy ] literal 22:33:33 you do 22:33:38 [ xyzzy ]# 22:33:44 less verbose! 22:33:54 heh, i'll add it too 22:34:28 forth inc added it too - hehe 22:34:35 what about creating kewl word depository, sorted by category ? 22:34:42 a guy at work invented it, its cool :) 22:34:51 sure 22:38:12 * Serg_Penguin is unpacking a new comp to install OS 22:40:27 cool 22:40:31 i gotta go zzz 22:40:36 im up early for work 22:40:41 nite ppl 22:40:46 ok, g-nite 22:40:59 --- quit: I440r_ () 22:42:30 Serg_Penguin: how be you this night 22:43:24 Serg_Penguin http://forth.sourceforge.net/ ? 22:43:30 kewl word depository 22:43:43 --- quit: rk ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!") 22:43:59 --- quit: Herkamire ("bedtime for bonzo") 22:45:29 rot rotates the last three stack items right? 22:45:52 i think its ( a b c --- c a b ) 22:45:58 but im not sure 22:46:39 .s <3> 1 2 3 ok 22:46:40 rot .s <3> 2 3 1 ok 22:46:54 oh heh 22:46:58 thats -rot then :) 22:48:15 Write 17^3 in Forth, without writing 17 more than once: is that 17 dup dup * * 22:48:49 yeah 22:49:35 nip is to drop like over is to dup isn't it? 22:49:44 erm 22:49:59 nip ( a b --- b ) 22:50:08 http://forth.sourceforge.net/naming/index.html - 404 22:50:10 yes. 22:50:17 seems like unmaintained 22:50:22 stop, stop 22:50:28 i know all basic words 22:50:56 i don't 22:51:04 i mean - repository of newly invented or just usef00l words, NOT for inclusion in core 22:51:22 jdrake: so read 'starting Forth' book by Leo Brodie 22:51:37 if it is available for free, sure... 22:51:46 together w/ his 'Thinking Foth' , it's a must-read 22:52:00 Serg_Penguin: actually, sourceforge has been giving random 404's lately --- keep retrying 22:52:08 here in RU it is - some amateur did translate 22:52:12 i have a copy of Forth Programmer's Handbook 22:52:20 starting foth is awesome 22:52:24 forth 22:52:35 any of these titles available online freely? 22:53:25 ianP: 'Thinking Forth' rocks even more 22:53:37 nice :) 22:54:15 if anyone has a PDF of 'Thinking Forth' please let me know ;) 22:54:52 yes thatcould be useful 22:55:02 this is starting forth: http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/sf1/sf1.html 22:55:15 PDF suxx, i'd better read 80x25 on 17" 22:55:15 tell me too please! 22:55:24 lol 22:55:34 PDF, or txt, or anthing :) 22:58:40 gonna reboot - W2k messed w/ drive letters... 22:59:09 there are NO forth titles available online freely that I'm aware. 22:59:23 If there is, I would like to know where :) 22:59:23 it is quite trivial to convert PDF to ascii text 22:59:41 pdf2ps -> ps2txt ? 22:59:55 and you can print PDF and have it bound and have a close facsimilie of a book 22:59:59 at least, Acrobat has no convert option 23:00:22 LOL 23:00:37 fridge: tell me where is a search button in that piece of killed trees ? 23:00:49 fridge, or you could go and buy it. 23:00:55 I have like 3-4 copies of TF. 23:00:58 Serg_Penguin: there is none. 23:01:02 It isn't that expensive. 23:01:26 I have seen it go for 10 bucks. 23:01:31 Borrow it from a local library. 23:01:32 ILL> 23:01:36 fridge: it's why i consider machineable data 'live' and paper - 'dead' 23:01:39 beapp: no library has it 23:01:39 ILL = interlibrary loan. 23:01:50 fridge, what state/country are you in? 23:01:52 http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/basic.html 23:01:56 beapp: NSW/Australia 23:02:01 * Serg_Penguin hits reset 23:02:05 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 23:02:54 fridge, that could be a problem. 23:02:55 http://www.moria.de/~michael/bas/ 23:03:11 that is the BASIC of choice for me, I have a few ported here to BeOS, and it runs the fastest, nicest and cleanest that I can see. 23:03:50 the iForth BASIC interpreter is just a novel concept thing I bet. But to have BASIC imbedded on hardware ontop of forth, with hardware specific stuff to control say motors and data aquisitions, that would be neato. 23:04:04 beapp: my copy of starting forth has disintergrated. perhaps I should buy both at the same time. 23:04:20 the point was the ontop of forth thing 23:04:47 i think i will be restarting into osx, no need for me to actually be in linux so far 23:05:26 I have debian on my ibook, I never use it though 23:06:06 fridge, perhaps. 23:06:30 jdrake, ya, I got that, and thus I kinda pointed it out too. 23:06:48 I agree, having layers on top of forth is neat. :) 23:06:57 kinda like a sexy FORTH sandwich. 23:10:23 where did i get the forth programmer's handbook pdf... 23:10:37 i can't seem to google for it anywhere 23:10:45 i don't have an easy way to transfer it back 23:10:49 to osx 23:12:26 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 23:12:30 re 23:14:55 anybody have a thinking forth pdf please? :) 23:21:09 heh, google easy finds RU translation i have, but no ENG 23:21:20 --- quit: jdrake ("Client exiting") 23:22:00 arke, I'm not sure that a TF was ever made. 23:22:21 whats RU? 23:22:31 is there maybe a german translation? 23:22:33 russian. 23:22:36 oh 23:22:45 ruski 23:22:49 sinking subs. 23:22:55 129 more to sink 23:23:27 I wouldn't mind having some FORTH books PDFed... 23:23:36 I have heard that Starting FORTH is in a PDF format. 23:24:31 --- quit: embiopterae ("So long, and thanks for all the fish.") 23:26:45 I chatted with soem dude in europe that had done the PDF for SF, he had completed it some time ago. 23:26:59 I forgot if it was just images in a PDF, or he had OCR'ed and done indexing on it. 23:27:12 That book is great, and I wish I could remember who had done it. 23:28:19 Serg_Penguin: regarding pdf vs paper, I prefer to read large volumes of text from paper, it is much easier than monitors on my eyes. When displays reach 1200+ dpi and possess similar properties of paper, I don't think I'll print anything ever again 23:28:35 similar light properties 23:28:44 fridge, totally agree. I have read TONS on paper and some on screen, paper is much better! 23:28:51 bah, paper all the way. 23:28:52 Also, it is nice to take book to bed, and fall asleep to it. 23:29:04 I can take paper to bed and roll over it accidentally :D 23:29:13 it is remarkably resilient too! 23:29:15 I would die if I took my 21" SGI monitor to bed, would squish my head. 23:29:18 I've done that with my laptop hehe 23:29:26 fell asleep on it 23:29:34 didn't damage it luckily 23:29:36 fridge but it had to be powered and stuff. 23:29:45 I can read in the middle of the sahara for instance :) 23:29:49 yep 23:29:58 I took a Atari Lynx to bed many times, playing Robotron 2084 until I feel alseep, then one morning I woke up and the screen was broken. 23:30:09 awwww 23:30:28 last time I take technology to bed, never gave good head either. 23:30:55 hehhehe 23:31:29 other issue - having some materials is incriminating 23:31:46 and getting to them in e-form is harder than in paper 23:32:25 say, what if my GF sees a text on human sexual and mating behavior, VERY cynical/biological ? 23:32:47 if it's in Palm - she just can't use it 23:32:48 she might read it and learn something? 23:32:55 if on paper, hmm... 23:33:26 she may see i'm not so romantic as i show myself to her ;)) 23:39:02 Serg_Penguin but that might be a problem! 23:39:11 you have to _hide_ things from her you're reading? 23:39:24 I think it was just a bad example 23:39:53 hehehe okay okay I'll stop then. 23:40:14 think pro democracy literature in Burma! alqueada operation manuals! 23:40:36 Right! 23:40:49 anyway, this affair is over - i don't like orthodox christians 23:41:21 Serg_Penguin she caught you reading a book on 'Christians Suck, dump them for an atheist?' ? 23:43:14 it was two reasons - 1, she supplicated to anyone: mother, sister, even me, and never stood for her own interests 23:43:51 2, her dream was family, kids etc., what i'm sick even thinking of 23:44:08 so all romance blew away 23:45:39 Awwww. 23:45:58 well, I was beginning to think I was the last single guy left on the freaking planet! 23:46:02 but this is a relief :D 23:46:11 not that your loss is a good thing or anything. 23:47:02 * arke is away: i'm gonna be back as rk, but not in all channels. see most of you in 60 seconds :) 23:47:08 --- quit: arke (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:48:41 --- join: rk (~chris@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 23:49:19 once after her talks about 'our purpose is to reproduce', i came up w/ a 'baby nuke' 23:49:52 a short psy-charged speech, can't translate coz it takes to know target language 'better than native' 23:50:39 the key idea is: 23:52:07 i feel sympathy to you [my girl], so then you are sick i feel bad too 23:52:57 and then you [girl] talk about kids, i feel like i' being eated by red THING (remember the movie!) from inside 23:53:47 if another one will make same error of talking to me about kids and family, i'll launch the nuke :)))) 23:54:13 .... 23:54:26 mighty thing ? 23:55:07 . 23:55:15 rk: ? 23:56:01 : . .( I acknowledge, without any comments. ) ; 23:59:02 it's my gift to all forthers ;)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.09.01