00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.08.26 00:09:17 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 00:19:50 --- nick: rk -> arke 00:26:17 hello 00:35:25 Hi :) 00:35:39 hello! 00:36:41 i have a question about XTs 00:37:01 given an XT, can you locate the header? 00:37:09 without searching? 00:38:57 XT...? 00:39:04 execution token 00:40:19 Oh. Well, depends on the Forth I guess. 00:41:00 In many systems, the header is always (or almost always :) x bytes from the code, to which the execution token points. 00:41:01 hmm 00:41:04 there is no way with Rkforth. its too cool to let you do that 00:41:09 Heh. 00:41:16 :) 00:41:23 yeah, thats what i want to do 00:41:43 hehehe. One language ... one bazillion versions. 00:41:44 but i have the problem of the name in the header being backwards in memory 00:42:00 uuter reverse it! 00:42:18 uh, but i can't treat it as a string then 00:43:04 well, i suppose i could add the length to the start, to get a patched up string 00:47:45 * arke is away: sl33p 00:51:29 You could also have a fixed length name field. 00:57:05 --- quit: arke (Client Quit) 01:02:58 yeah, i think i will just calculate the name base 04:36:17 --- join: Darklord`` (curtis@dsl-24.7.240.220.lns02-kent-syd.dsl.comindico.com.au) joined #forth 04:36:26 I am making a program 04:36:28 And i need some help 04:41:44 --- join: det (~chris@adsl-64-123-27-105.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) joined #forth 04:42:19 --- part: det left #forth 05:09:42 --- quit: Darklord`` () 05:11:55 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 05:32:58 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 06:05:40 --- join: tcn (~tcn@tc2-login14.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 06:15:39 --- quit: tcn ("TinyIRC 1.1") 06:42:14 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 07:07:24 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4a2c.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 07:07:31 'morning 07:08:01 Hi Speuler :) 07:08:26 ah, omnipresent the_rob 07:08:40 I see no reason to leave! 07:08:54 god dag 07:10:26 God eftermiddag 07:10:37 And.. good bye. ;) 07:32:42 Robert: are you experienced with bf ? 07:36:25 what's bf? 07:37:21 brainf#$& 07:37:33 such an enticing name ;) 07:38:01 makes me want to drop everything I'm doing and go learn it Now ;) 07:38:40 yep, quite fun language, basically a turing machine. takes about 10 seconds to figure, and 2 hours to write an small "Hello world" test program :) 07:39:26 jesus 07:39:37 I thought it was just cryptic 07:39:55 i know bf somewhat 07:40:03 nah seriously, I think it's a great language from the point of you that you really need think trough the program 07:40:25 currently I'm trying to figure a why to optimize the "hello world" program :) 07:40:28 started to implement a forth interpreter in bf once 07:40:31 I don't think you should have to think through "Hello world" much... 07:41:23 Herkamire: I don't think you should be skeptic about it, the language seems to be great to learn stack handling and recursive thinking 07:41:48 what's with the two hours? 07:42:04 even in my forth that doesn't do strings, it would only take a couple minutes to print Hellow, World! 07:42:22 (even spelled right it would only take a couple minutes) 07:42:32 Herkamire: [->+<]>[-<++>]< (thats 2*) 07:42:51 Herkamire: I exaggerated, but it takes a while to write a string, as you have to factorize the ascii codes of the characters you want to print etc 07:42:55 Herkamire, 2/ is way more complex :) 07:43:26 my first bf program ever :P +[,<+>]<- (strlen) :P 07:43:34 Speuler: what are you making 2* out of? 07:43:58 + - and shift? 07:43:59 copying cell to cell+1, then double-copying it back 07:44:10 no shift 07:44:18 there is no shift in bf 07:44:38 actually, moving rather than copying 07:44:42 is it intentionally difficult? 07:44:45 Herkamire: +/- = add/sub at pointer position, = increase / decrease pointer 07:44:56 , = get a char from input, . = put a char at the output 07:45:20 Herkamire: writing programs is difficult because of the very limited set of operations 07:45:21 Herkamire: well I believe so, cause it would be really handy to have some RLE builtin in the language 07:45:44 RLE? 07:45:54 Herkamire: Run Length Encoding 07:46:11 like instead of writing ++++++++ you should write +8 or something, that would be handy :) 07:46:15 Frek: that's what I was thinking, but isn't that a transparency blitting thing? 07:46:17 Herkamire, there's just 1+ 1- increment-pointer decrement-pointer , a loop construct, key and emit 07:46:39 Herkamire: it's an algorithm to "compress" data 07:46:49 Frek, optimising translator would do 07:47:01 you write 8+, it translates to ++++++++ 07:47:13 Speuler: sure, but I'm talking about stock language 07:47:15 what do the [ and ] do? 07:47:15 or, +8, if you like 07:47:39 Herkamire, [ : begin loop 07:47:39 --- join: hovil (~matt@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 07:47:42 also it would be great if there was a cache 07:47:55 if cell under pointer is 0, skip to corresponding ] 07:48:13 if cell under pointer <> 0, execute operation following [ 07:48:23 ] : jump to corresponding [ 07:48:53 if cell under pointer is 0, skip to operation corresponding corresponding ] 07:49:11 if cell under pointer is 0, skip to operation following corresponding ] ... 07:49:44 OK, I grok 2* example. 07:49:52 i.e. [-] sets cell under pointer to 0 07:49:52 it only works if next cell is 0 right? 07:50:04 right, if you can't assume that, you would do: 07:50:07 >[-]< first 07:50:15 gocha 07:50:50 so bf is just good for learning (mental excersises) 07:50:55 Herkamire, it is good practice to clean everything right of pointer after use 07:51:05 Herkamire: I think so 07:51:06 saves you the hassle to clean it before use 07:51:57 hehe :) I grok [-] 07:52:01 Herkamire: however i'm pretty new to bf, I got to know about it yesterday evening, and I spent about 1 hour on it today :) 07:52:05 also, i did [->+<]>[-<++>]< rather than [->++<]>[-<+]< 07:52:07 I thought that was syntax for a minute :) 07:52:17 that's slightly more efficient :) 07:52:44 http://justice.loyola.edu/~mcoffey/pr/5k/i.html (a really neat bf interpreter) 07:52:52 Frek, Herkamire: i could look u some of the forth primitives i've coded in bf 07:53:05 Speuler: no thanks :) 07:53:11 Speuler: ic 07:53:26 so bf is just these right: <>[]-+ 07:53:39 and , . 07:53:46 . is emit 07:53:49 , is key 07:53:57 right? 07:54:00 basically 07:54:03 yes 07:54:14 cool. so 8 primitives 07:54:37 and you can't define more, right? programs are just a stream of those chars 07:54:52 yes 07:55:01 it's no where similar to forth in the sense of "words" 07:55:02 right. you could use "macros" though which would work by string insertion 07:55:06 nifty. well, I learned a new language today :) hehe 07:55:33 if I made bf I would have added atleast one more primitive 'dup' 07:55:35 but those macros are not a feature of bf, more of the .. "preprocessor" 07:56:04 [>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-] <-- dup in bf (sucks, right ?) 07:56:10 : dup >off>off<<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]< ; : off [-] ; 07:56:27 almost the same :) 07:56:39 Speuler: why not write a bf interpreter in forth instead ? :) 07:56:45 did so 07:56:49 really ? 07:56:51 also an optimizing translator 07:56:57 ic 07:57:15 and a bf to asm/basic/forth translator 07:57:42 last one is pretty trivial to do 07:57:46 I begun a bf -> PPC compiler (OS X), but I donno if I will finish it off 07:58:14 got an optimizing translator and executor in 15 lines code :) 07:58:23 each one < 64 chars 07:58:27 including comments 07:58:35 to native code ? 07:59:00 forth program to translate bf to intermediate code which can be executed 07:59:08 ic 07:59:41 the thing I begun working on is meant to build real executables, whatever use that might be :) 07:59:49 biggest bf project was the attempt to write a forth interpreter in bf 08:00:14 got it to the point where i could say that it would be possible :) 08:00:30 started to implement the memory interface 08:00:34 however what got me stalled currently is that I need to read up on the OS X/Darwin runtime convention, I'm just used to the IBM/CFM calling convention 08:00:46 (need absolute memory addressing if one wants to use two independent stacks 08:00:52 and @ and ! and the like) 08:00:54 wait, does . leave the number there? 08:01:03 yes 08:01:17 Herkamire: no the ascii char of the value the current pointer contains 08:01:34 "output the char which ascii is under pointer" 08:01:48 no modification 08:02:09 (right so it's not similar to forth's . ) 08:02:31 you CAN dup, . and drop if you wish 08:02:38 but there's no point in it 08:03:09 the point as I see it having a 'dup' function builtin is to optimize "Hello World!" :) 08:03:57 anyway who cares, it's unlikely someone uses bf for something serious anyway 08:04:24 the shortest hello world i got is 114 chars 08:04:30 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++++++..+++.-------------------------------------------------------------------.------------.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.++++++++++++++++++++++++.+++.------.--------.-------------------------------------------------------------------. 08:05:17 there's even a brainfuck interpreter, written in brainfuck 08:05:33 6559 chars 08:05:37 that's really unoptimized :) 08:05:37 yep 08:05:51 my first bf program :) 08:06:11 optimized for speed ;) 08:06:19 Herkamire: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. could be turned into >+++++++++[<++++++++>-]<. to save space for example :) 08:06:31 ack 08:06:39 I can't believe you know bf that well 08:06:52 me ? 08:06:58 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. 08:07:30 Speuler: hmm clever 08:07:38 Frek, that's not mine 08:07:53 means, i didn't implement it 08:08:02 Speuler: ic 08:08:14 clever non the less 08:08:27 credit to the author :) 08:10:47 :) 08:11:50 so (asuming 0 in next cell) dup is: [>+] 08:12:05 Herkamire: nope 08:12:11 don't think so 08:12:26 that would just cause an infinite loop, unless I'm thinking oddly right now 08:12:47 that is "increment each following cell by one until a cell with contents 0 has been encountered" 08:12:50 (unless the interpreter wraps the pointer value) 08:13:29 contents -1 i mean 08:14:08 maybe a good start for a codewars-style battle program 08:20:30 hmm 08:23:25 heh 08:23:48 I succeed optimize that hello world bf app some more 08:23:56 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. (original) 08:24:02 ++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<<+++[>+++++<-]>.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>. (modified) 08:24:33 Hmmm. 08:24:36 oh right, dup would be: [>+<]> 08:24:38 We all love brainfuck. 08:24:50 nope 08:24:55 that would be 0 swap 08:24:55 In fact - I'm building a little brainfuck machine, with 4 input buttons and 8 LEDs. :) 08:25:07 Memory that fits 128 instructions. 08:25:09 Speuler: swap? 08:25:12 32 bytes for calculations. 08:25:16 wrong 08:25:20 that's infinite loop too 08:25:53 Herkamire: see why it's called brainfuck ? :) 08:26:02 you have 3 on stack. so it loops three times. in the loop it increments the cell past the three. right? 08:26:17 : dup [->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]< ; 08:26:19 Robert: it was you who got me interested about it, I never heard about the language before you told about your thing 08:26:38 or [>+>+<<-]>>[<<+>>-] 08:26:41 Frek: Hehe, nice to hear I'm doing the world some damage! 08:26:51 Frek: Did you see my brainfuck software on http://robert.zizi.org ? 08:26:52 oh, no "it loops three times" it loops until current cell is 0 08:27:04 Frek: 128 byte compiler for DOS. :) 08:27:07 Robert: not at all, I think it's nice to get some brain practice once a while 08:27:24 Frek, what is if you try to duplicate 0 ? 08:27:24 Robert: nope, unfortunately I'm stuck on MacOS 08:27:39 Frek: Every good OS has a DOS emulator. ;) 08:27:41 Speuler: then you [-] 08:27:57 Speuler: I got your point though, that example wouldn't work then 08:28:24 however assuming your duping to "uninitialized" memory it shouldn't be a problem 08:28:40 Robert: I guess 08:28:51 Frek, [>+>+<<-] would get skipped 08:29:02 >> two up 08:29:12 Speuler: right 08:29:18 I wrote some Forth primitives in Brainfuck earlier... 08:29:25 [<< + ***<--*** >>-] 08:29:28 A very useful language indeed. 08:29:33 the + increments the 0 two below 08:29:58 nope. me wring 08:30:01 wrong 08:30:15 I don't think it's possible to optimize this hello world program any further without a major rewrite :/ 08:30:18 second [ ] would get skipped too 08:31:05 some genetic algorithm might be able to find a better solution :) 08:31:39 hmm actually I just noticed mine isn't really optimized.. they're both 111 characters, dang 08:32:06 I should use a monospaced font instead 08:32:27 brb, off to the bakery 08:32:39 one floor below 08:33:01 heh 08:36:01 ok so who's up for making "guess a number" in bf ? :P 08:40:22 b 08:44:15 --- join: gNoam (trilluser@bc-van-reg-a53-01-26.look.ca) joined #forth 08:54:16 --- part: gNoam left #forth 09:41:28 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:06:17 * arke is back (gone 00:25:37) 10:18:03 --- quit: fridge (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11:04:46 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 11:06:11 hello 11:07:16 hi 11:23:27 hmm, >R crashes quartus forth 11:24:08 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-127-122.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 11:24:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 11:24:27 well, crashes the entire computer really 11:25:01 though, it is better than ppforth, which crashes the computer when I try to bring up the keyboard for text input 11:25:31 graffiti wasn't designed for forthers. 11:25:41 * hovil grumbles something about pen type interfaces in general 11:27:29 hovil, not surprisingly 11:28:24 you push a return address on return stack 11:29:07 : foo 12345 >r r> drop ; 11:34:01 I'm not sure what you're talking about, but I can say that that is one big fat no-op. :) 11:34:16 Shouldn't that read : foo r> drop 12345 >r ; instead? 11:35:18 ok, all we have proven here is that I am a fool 11:35:29 ;) 11:36:09 I just tried it again and it works now 11:36:25 not sure what was going on to make it crash 11:52:24 --- join: Herkamir1 (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 12:01:39 kc5tja, " hmm, >R crashes quartus forth" 12:03:22 --- part: Speuler left #forth 12:09:14 --- quit: Herkamire (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:17:15 --- nick: Herkamir1 -> Herkamire 12:49:00 --- join: zjin (~KCUF@cs6668139-206.austin.rr.com) joined #forth 12:49:34 --- part: zjin left #forth 13:02:26 Well, I finally got the infrastructure for this website implemented. Now I'm having problems populating it with content. 13:02:39 It's hard to design a site when the customer doesn't have a farging clue as to what he wants. :/ 13:23:42 sure is 13:24:00 release early; release often 13:24:09 heh :) 13:24:45 we have some clients that don't know what they want. we have to make things and show them, in order to get any idea 13:24:51 I can't. 13:25:05 This customer is patently unknowledgable about what goes on in a site. 13:25:14 Release often requires the customer to have some kind of clue as to what he wants. 13:25:28 This one guy is just, "Just do it. I don't care how, just do it." 13:25:33 uhhh....OK. Whatever, man. 13:25:45 * kc5tja thinks this is just a big waste of his time and money. 13:25:45 it seems a shame that they can't decide/describe what they want, because it costs them twice as much at least for us to make it one or two ways before they can tell us what they want. 13:26:18 Well, I told the guy, "look, I use my method specifically because I *know* you're going to change your mind later on. Guaranteed. My way will cost YOU LESS." 13:26:19 kc5tja: do you understand his goals? 13:26:24 "No, you're the expert. you do the work." 13:26:28 Herkamire: NOT AT ALL. 13:26:36 bugger 13:26:41 He wants a mortgage/real estate site, and that's as far as I know. 13:26:41 we have one like that. 13:26:46 "just do what we want" 13:26:50 So I'm looking at tons of other sites to figure shit out. 13:27:03 Well, I can tell you right now, this is the last time I do work like this. 13:27:25 I will not continue to do work for this otherwise fine gentleman until he agrees to work according to the process *I* use, not the other way around. 13:28:04 being a computer expert means you can get a computer to do anything. 13:28:57 he's the expert in his business 13:29:16 you have to work together to figure out how make the web part of his business 13:29:39 BUT... 13:29:46 being in business means knowing when to say no to cut expenses. 13:29:54 I can make the computer do anything he wants. 13:30:00 O 13:30:00 BUT HE HAS TO TELL ME WHAT HE WANTS FIRST. 13:30:04 I'd just walk away from it 13:30:04 That's the key. 13:30:05 exactly 13:30:08 hovil: I can't. 13:30:12 =( 13:30:14 hovil: I have all of $62 in my bank account. 13:30:30 kc5tja: he won't sit down and talk to you? 13:31:07 Herkamire customer's usually aren't good at communicating their nees. 13:31:09 *needs. 13:31:18 gilbertdeb: I know :) 13:31:19 thats why the GOOD companies sell them packaged solutions. 13:31:28 half the work we do is figuring out what the client wants 13:31:46 that's why I like hosting :) 13:31:49 Herkamire: I tried no less than three times. 13:31:57 Herkamire and you all knock Miss Cleo :) 13:31:59 tsk tsk tsk 13:32:11 Herkamire: He's always happy for a consultation, but he never tells me what he wants. Because, I feel, he doesn't even know himself. 13:32:14 who's miss cleo? 13:32:22 Miss Cleo the famous TV psychic??? 13:32:25 from fort lauderdale ??? 13:32:34 she can tell you ALL that is going on! 13:32:40 wait thats a thought! 13:32:47 kc5tja: ask him to give you links to at least 3 real-estate websites 13:32:48 gilbertdeb: Be real. 13:32:50 hire a psychic to tell the customer what they want!!! 13:32:53 kc5tja: that he likes 13:32:54 Herkamire: I ahve 7. 13:32:56 kc5tja I'm serious! 13:33:00 gilbertdeb: No you're not. 13:33:14 Herkamire: But those 7 sites don't do me a lick of good. 13:33:15 kc5tja the customer has a difficult job making up its mind... 13:33:27 gilbertdeb: Hence the use of extreme programming -- that's precisely why it exists. 13:33:40 psychicks are good at telling them what they want ... conclusion ;) 13:33:42 kc5tja: I meant sites that he likes. you can compaire the three and see what characteristics he wants 13:33:43 gilbertdeb: But I can't get him, at all, to sit down for weekly planning meetings. 13:33:52 gilbertdeb: Like I said, be real. 13:34:07 Herkamire: I gave me 7 sites, and said, "I want mine to be like theirs." 13:34:08 you do have to agree, it is completely untested/untried. 13:34:15 gilbertdeb: Actually, it's not. 13:34:32 kc5tja: ok... so make something like those :) 13:34:49 Herkamire: OK. Make me something like Windows, but it has to run Windows, but it cannot be Windows. 13:35:04 I don't care how you do it. 13:35:06 You have two weeks. 13:35:10 kc5tja: ok, $10,000,000 and 4 years 13:35:40 two weeks? 13:35:42 Herkamire: Can't do that. $200 is the best you'll get. 13:36:09 I hope he doesn't want more than a 4 page site that basically says "hi, we do realestate. [pretty picture] call us" 13:36:35 He wants 7 pages. 13:36:38 $200 for your website? or for windoze clone? 13:36:44 Herkamire: Both. 13:36:52 whaaaat? 13:36:56 --- join: rO|_ (~rO|@pD9E599E8.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 13:37:04 windoze sells for at least $150 doesnt it? 13:37:04 Dude, when you have $62 in your bank account, $200 is juicy. 13:37:12 Herkamire: *sigh* My example??? 13:37:21 Herkamire: I was making an allegory. 13:37:32 hehe 13:38:15 well, the company I work for most of the time hasn't come up with anything better than just making something and showing it to them and saying "how do you like it? we can change it if you want." 13:39:32 Herkamire: Read up on XP. That's basically how they do programming. 13:39:34 actually, I'd me much happier with $100,000 10 years, and it doesn't have to run windoze (or windoze software) 13:39:49 Herkamire: Yes yes yes, I know, but you're missing the point. 13:40:07 Herkamire: I'm comparing an absolutely insane request with another, absolutely insane request. 13:40:12 Herkamire: Not one which makes sense. 13:40:28 the point is that there doesn't seem to be a better way than to just create something and charge him $200 for it 13:40:56 Well 13:40:57 yes 13:40:59 I know that. 13:41:04 That IS what I'm doing, right? 13:41:32 I mean, I'm working on a website for this guy, trying to figure out just what to put in, while still not being so blatant a plagerizer about it. 13:41:42 * kc5tja hasn't a CLUE about how the real estate market really works. 13:41:48 Or how to go about marketing it. 13:42:00 that's ok 13:42:21 if he does, and he cares about the website much, he'll analize it and give you feedback. 13:42:41 he doesn't seem to be willing to do it up front though. A lot of people need to see something in order to talk about it. 13:43:02 do you have content? 13:43:05 No. 13:43:09 This is what I'm talking about. 13:43:16 He has ZERO preparation of his own. 13:43:22 oh. then you're up shit creak :( 13:43:30 Pretty much. 13:43:33 you don't have copy or photos or anything? 13:43:39 No. 13:43:44 does he expect you to just pull it out of your ass? 13:43:44 HE doesn't even have them. 13:43:48 does he have a brochure? 13:43:57 He expects me to rip it all off of the 7 sites he "likes." 13:44:03 Which I'm really hesitant to do. 13:44:13 that sucks. 13:44:26 A few of them are run by his next-door neighbors, supposedly. 13:44:28 you can't write all the copy, take pictures, and create a 7 page site. 13:44:31 Imagine how that will make them feel. 13:45:07 --- quit: rO| (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 13:45:28 What he's looking for is a portal. And you just aren't going to get that for $200. 13:45:51 portal to what? 13:46:15 You never heard the term "portal" before? 13:46:19 Used in reference to a website? 13:46:43 A portal is something like Yahoo!, CNN, or some other large, multi-function, highly organized, dynamic content website. 13:48:18 Oh well. I've put in about 3 hours on it today, so I think I'll stop for now. 13:48:23 Got a lot of the infrastructure in place. 13:48:53 Got a neat Python script and Makefile to help generate the static HTML for the page. 13:50:09 web guys here use some python template system 13:50:15 they seem reasonably happy with it 13:50:35 * kc5tja nods 13:50:40 I'm really happy with the one I just created for this site. 13:50:57 It's not fancy, but it does the job. 13:51:06 kc5tja: can I see? 13:51:13 Herkamire: See what? 13:51:23 kc5tja: your python + Makefile 13:51:32 Herkamire: OK, just a second. 13:54:37 wget http://www.falvotech.com/spanner/mkpage.tar.gz 13:56:45 I might just give him a call and let him know, "I have the infrastructure down, but the content is taking waaay longer than expected. I do not think I can complete this site without more input from you, on a more timely basis, and with additional funding." 13:59:20 Oops, I forgot to update the mkpage script with the new -n option. 14:01:53 That script gives me some nice ideas about the Forth-based HTML renderer I've been wanting to make in the future 14:02:36 anyway, brb -- I need to make that phone call, and I need some food. 14:02:49 coooool. I didn't know you could do this in python: "%s" % ( cssClass, link, cssClass, tab ) 14:03:21 :) 14:03:39 Just one of many reasons why I dropped Perl a loooooooooong time ago. :D 14:04:19 Eventually, I'd like to make a system where it'll even figure out what CSS entries I need, then make a simple CSS template that I can hack without having to re-make the whole site every time. 14:04:27 Right now, I have to manually add CSS entries, which gets really messy. 14:05:05 Well, he's not answering his phone. Imagine that. 14:05:08 No answering machine either. 14:05:15 He has a lot to learn about being in business. :D 14:05:16 fun fun fun ;) 14:05:23 really :) 14:05:32 I'm starting to disslike perl 14:05:35 Anyway, I'm off to get food. That'll drop my account to a meager $42. 14:05:51 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-food 14:26:17 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 14:31:43 --- quit: hovil ("http://lice.codehack.com") 14:48:47 --- nick: kc-food -> kc5tja 14:49:59 back 14:54:48