00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.08.25 00:03:52 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 00:15:44 --- nick: rk -> arke 01:16:46 --- quit: gilbertdeb ("Told you I could quit any time!") 01:29:18 --- nick: arke -> sdf 01:29:24 --- nick: sdf -> arke 01:35:47 --- quit: njd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:46:40 morning serg 01:47:05 oops 01:47:14 morning# 01:49:09 hello 01:49:32 Hi 01:50:14 back from school? 01:51:24 schooool never ends ;-) 01:51:36 Hehe! 01:51:36 of life 01:51:40 I'm on a lunch break. 01:51:44 I'll return in about an hour. 01:51:54 ah 01:52:06 did the school year just start? 01:52:33 Yes, last Thursday. 01:55:29 pronounciation of "school" written down in german: skul 01:55:48 "skol" in Swedish. 01:56:06 Only Americans are stupid enough to pronounce "sch" as "sk". 01:56:10 :) 01:57:10 the near to "skull" is interesting 01:57:46 Only americans are stupid enough to pronounce "u" as "a" :) 01:58:25 In Swedish, what you pronounce as "skull" is written as "skall", and means either should (but then it's pronounced a bit differently), or bark. 01:58:47 what about the english? 01:58:56 ..only.. 01:59:59 They're americans, too ;)( 02:00:21 oho :-) 02:00:55 oi, americans are americans 02:01:11 austrailians are probably the most american'ized 02:01:12 Really? 02:01:15 Hehe. 02:01:38 Britain is not like the US 02:01:47 but politically this impression might have same substance 02:02:02 i think its just Tony Blair 02:02:30 im going to sleep 02:02:31 Tony Bush is creepy, but I wouldn't think the Tories are more anti-american. 02:02:32 bye 02:02:33 Night uuter 02:02:40 brb 02:02:46 Tony Bush ? :) 02:02:49 bye 02:02:53 bb 02:02:53 ;P 02:04:32 political leaders (nowadays?) look like puppets 02:06:47 except maybe berlusconi, his grinning is as big as his salaries 02:09:59 :D 02:10:27 He's a combined mafia leader and political leader. 02:10:36 So that's maybe not strange ;D 02:11:23 personal union saves bureaucratic spendings.. 02:14:06 Robert: ma fia? how you come to that? 02:17:21 --- quit: rO| ("maintenance") 02:18:06 Robert: 'lo 02:33:34 Hi there 02:33:47 Robert: whats up? 02:35:06 Took a little nap. Going back to school in 5 minutes. 02:35:18 Robert: cool. 02:35:30 Robert: have i suffered enough by now? or do i have to suffer more? 02:37:07 Ehm. 02:37:17 Probably you'll have to suffer a little bit more - why? 02:37:22 And what's wrong? 02:46:18 --- quit: arke (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:46:57 --- join: arke (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 02:59:38 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 02:59:54 re 03:03:23 * arke is away: sl33p is g00d 04:20:05 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 05:31:52 --- join: PoppaVic (~pfv@04-145.008.popsite.net) joined #forth 05:34:02 Hi PoppaVic :) 05:37:39 Hi Robert 07:11:03 --- join: hovil (~matt@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 08:05:22 --- quit: Frek (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:06:06 --- join: Frek (~anvil@81-216-25-254.man2.calypso.net) joined #forth 08:25:03 --- quit: Frek (Connection timed out) 08:31:01 --- quit: PoppaVic ("(I don't need a reason)") 08:37:57 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 08:39:33 --- quit: arke (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 09:41:33 --- join: gilbertdeb (gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-142.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 09:54:07 wb gilbertdeb :) 09:54:19 aloha Herkamire 09:55:29 is anyone here playing with joy? 09:56:47 rebol seems much more fun 2 me 09:56:57 hey, onetom you're playing with rebol??? 09:57:02 how do you like it? 09:57:09 yeah, the last 2days 09:57:13 aLot 09:57:23 its amazing i think 09:57:38 but 1st i try 2 fully learn & understand it 09:57:55 & try 2 solve some real life problems w it 1st 09:57:55 onetom don't forget that its author wrote a forth once :) 09:58:17 sure, i feel the 4th behind it :) 09:58:53 just 1 have 2 take a look @ its size 300k console or 600k w graphics... dazzelinh 09:58:53 g 09:59:33 yeah! 09:59:41 and have you seen the number of platforms it runs on? 09:59:56 years ago, but yes 10:00:14 what do U know about it? 10:00:31 heheh. 10:00:33 eg what do u know about that IOS in rebol? 10:00:40 I've been playing with it on and off. 10:00:45 the IOS thing, I don't know. 10:00:53 I can't pay for it you see? 10:01:16 BUT, it because it has all those net protocols built in, it makes things a lot easier . 10:01:58 hm.. i was lazy 2 read about it at least, but those freely downloadable stuffs r convincable enough 2 play more attention on it 10:02:19 so how did you finally come to look at rebol? 10:02:33 Btw, k is a lot smaller than rebol and even MORE powerful :) 10:02:41 hey, dont u know r those free rebols able 2 execute other programs? 10:02:43 sadly, it isn't written by a forther. 10:02:52 onetom no they aren't. 10:02:56 afaik ... 10:03:01 i saw a rebol/console pkg .. ay.. 10:03:13 well, the rebol/view comes with rebol/console ... 10:03:23 oh wait, thats different. 10:03:27 rebol/core I meant. 10:03:44 yup 10:04:05 they r different & the /console version is not free unfortunately :( 10:04:15 yeah, but its not too expensive. 10:04:30 I'd like to see some of its features in forth :) 10:05:03 imagine a higher forth with gui, nntp, ftp, http, telnet, (ssh?), and some sql stuff thrown in ... 10:05:11 for about 300k. 10:05:18 i hardly have money 2 live, so payin even cheap sw is not possible 4 me 10:05:26 yeah me too. 10:05:58 there's so much good free software out there... 10:06:08 higher 4th? ... well.. thats rebol i think 10:06:19 onetom but free. 10:06:21 I'm afraid if I spent money on software, that I would just switch to something else later 10:06:36 Herkamire: sure, but this lang really kicks ass 10:06:37 or I wouldn't have time to play with it 10:06:42 Herkamire yes true, not many of them are as tiny as rebol :) 10:06:55 is rebol copywrited or something? 10:06:59 there's no free version? 10:07:04 Herkamire: its a real jewel 10:07:13 Herkamire the free versions aren't the whole thing. 10:07:21 there's no opensource version 10:07:39 Herkamire there was an OSCAR project with a yahoo group sometime ago, 10:07:48 and then there was one on sourceforge but I don't know what happened to it. 10:08:00 Open Source (ca) Rebol. 10:08:05 does it create binaries? 10:08:16 no. 10:08:21 it is an interpreted language. 10:08:27 that's terrible 10:08:30 I don't know if the non-free ones can though. 10:08:41 Herkamire forth doesn't create too many binaries either :D 10:08:49 mine does 10:08:54 Oooooh. 10:08:58 :-P 10:09:20 Herkamire rebol is an amalgam of rexx, scheme, and a sprinkling of forth. 10:09:28 Herkamire: no1 knows wheather it creates binaries or not during running 10:09:34 there are a lot of freely distributable forths, so you can distribute them with your forth code, or tell people to install it first. 10:09:47 creating applications with gui frontends in it is easier than ANYTHING i've _ever_ _ever_ seen. 10:10:14 Herkamire: but originally there r 2 binary versions.. core & gui 10:10:21 but nobody can run your rebol programs without buying rebol?? 10:10:21 not necessarily. 10:10:41 if you create it in the free version, you can give away that as well. 10:10:51 Herkamire the neat thing about it is that it runs on 40 different platforms ... 10:10:52 Herkamire: there r 2 free rebols, they r only not opensrv 10:10:54 sc 10:10:55 including the gui component. 10:10:58 src -- ehhh 10:11:23 ok, so it is possible to run rebol programs without paying 10:11:27 sure 10:11:38 good. you had me worried for a bit there 10:11:39 just not commercionally 10:11:46 Herkamire heheh :) 10:11:57 I can live with not commercially 10:12:12 Herkamire it is a truly neat language. 10:12:17 especially for its size! 10:12:17 * onetom was also worried about it 1st when saw rebol.com 4 the 1st time 10:12:45 Herkamire: give it a shot! its raving 10:13:03 Herkamire and always remember, sassenrath is/was a 4thsmith 10:13:09 I'd love to, but I don't have time right now. I'm making it a higher priority to finish up my forth system 10:13:23 it might provide some good hints ;) 10:13:33 Herkamire which brings me to this question... 10:13:44 is a forth still an embedded thing . 10:13:52 Herkamire: hey, just run through its tutorial & click some in the gui version 10:13:53 or should it be extended to do major applications? 10:14:05 Herkamire: it takes about an hour, not more 10:15:04 2bbl 10:15:05 gilbertdeb: forth is my language of choice for programming on my home computer 10:15:07 bbl 10:15:26 Herkamire so how do you handle the internet? 10:15:40 gilbertdeb: haven't gotten that far 10:15:42 Herkamire: sure sure i still like 4th but rebol is a "must b seen" 10:15:59 onetom I'm glad you're looking at it at last :D 10:16:09 onetom: I'll take a look sometime. do you have a url for my todo list? 10:16:14 onetom start considering k as well ... 10:16:23 Herkamire http://www.rebol.com 10:16:28 heh 10:16:31 Herkamire it looks a LOT like python 10:16:37 python is good 10:16:42 ... well sometimes. and it requires indentation in some parts. 10:17:01 gilbertdeb: :) i took a look @ k. that made everybody 2 laugh among me friends 10:17:24 heheh. 10:17:25 gilbertdeb: did u managed 2 try k somehow? 10:17:51 onetom a little. 10:18:00 I was amazed, but I run out of time :D 10:18:17 it is even smaller than rebol AND it creates binaries. 10:18:24 is there documentation for k somewhere. I looked in the distro and couldn't understand it 10:18:49 creating an ELF for linux is quite easy 10:18:59 it's just finding out how that's tricky 10:19:04 gilbertdeb: they talked about some database management... how did it worked 4 ya? 10:19:05 Herkamire one sec... 10:19:15 gilbertdeb: could u gimme some more urls about k? 10:19:25 onetom yeah lemme fetch it. 10:19:37 k 10:20:05 http://www.xcf.berkeley.edu/~nordwick/k/ 10:20:14 thats the best set of links I've seen yet on k. 10:20:15 PPC ELF is like this: $7f454c46 , $1020100 , 0 , 0 , $20014 , 1 , here elf-entry ! 0 , $34 , 0 , 0 , $340020 , $10028 , 0 , 1 , $54 , $10000054 , 0 , here elf-size ! 0 , 1024 256 * , 7 , $10000 , 10:20:18 very high quality. 10:20:45 then you just fill in eld-entry and elf size 10:22:28 time for food. bbl 10:25:19 --- join: Frek (~anvil@81-216-25-254.man2.calypso.net) joined #forth 11:00:45 Heh. 11:00:50 Where are you from, Frek? 11:01:25 You're the first one I've ever seen with Calypso, since I quit using their services..uhm..4-5 years ago. 12:57:54 --- quit: onetom (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:59:55 --- join: onetom (~tom@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 13:08:21 --- join: njd (~melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 13:10:02 --- join: gNoam (trilluser@bc-van-reg-a53-01-59.look.ca) joined #forth 13:13:31 hello 13:13:51 hey there 13:14:01 another Forthnik in Lotusland! 13:14:18 Lotusland? 13:14:31 *.bc.ca 13:14:38 ah 13:14:55 you have never heard of that term before? 13:15:00 bbq lotusland 13:15:04 i don't think so 13:15:35 i'm in schizolano aka kitsilano (vancouver.bc.ca)... where are you located? 13:15:46 heh, no, but it is getting smokey again 13:15:48 i used to live in surrey, and kelowna 13:15:49 kelowna 13:16:02 in portland now 13:16:37 yeah, there is someone from Kamloops around here 13:16:56 cool 13:17:17 Forth is EVERYWHERE 13:17:36 yeah, this channel has quite a range of people 13:17:42 perhaps Chuck Moore will be the next Bill Gates ;-) 13:17:54 i sort of doubt that :) 13:19:23 i was being ironic hence ;-) ;-) 13:19:48 hence ";-)" ;-) 13:20:41 do you work as a programmer? 13:20:56 no... did www.cs.ubc.ca though 13:20:59 you? 13:21:04 no 13:21:18 i am very interested in software (and hardware too), e.g. comparing different programming languages 13:21:30 do you have a homepage? 13:21:34 im working on my own forth 13:21:36 no 13:21:39 great 13:21:42 working name? 13:21:53 for your version of forth, i mean? 13:21:59 not really 13:22:05 'my forth' 13:22:14 fuurth ;-) 13:22:25 what does uuter mean? as in puter? utter? 13:22:37 as in Uuter von Vimon 13:22:51 was is das? 13:22:54 your real name? 13:23:05 perhaps :) 13:23:06 netherlandish? 13:23:14 the name is 13:23:27 cool 13:23:38 fuurth would be good 13:23:49 as a name 13:23:55 for your version of Forth 13:24:29 maybe uForth ? 13:24:52 or htpForth 13:25:21 uForth would be great, esp if it had a small footprint :) 13:25:26 hehe 13:25:31 yeah 13:25:47 oh as in micro µ 13:25:53 would cause font problems 13:26:04 shouldn't but would ;-) 13:26:25 well, this is a UniCode World after all 13:26:39 should be, but isn't quite yet ;-) 13:27:24 is the air thick with smoke in k-town? have been seeing a lot on the news about fires thereabouts 13:27:30 are you proficient in Forth? 13:27:54 ": proficiency 5 1 do fool-around loop ; " 13:27:58 just kidding 13:28:09 it was really bad a few days ago, Air Canada even cancelled the k-town to Toronto flight 13:28:21 i have it on my pda... have used it since the early 80s but not for anything major or complicated 13:28:26 oh really 13:28:38 its starting to get smokey again, which means the winds are blowing it into k-town again 13:28:44 what is the airport code for Kelowna? like YVR for Vancouver? 13:28:47 i like north of it 13:28:51 ylw 13:29:04 live 13:29:20 yeah 13:29:30 it is ylw 13:29:35 oh thanks 13:29:51 some in canada have Z- at front but most have Y- 13:30:00 and they grounded non-commercial flights as well 13:30:07 really 13:30:26 are you worried about your own location? 13:30:31 yeah, not sure if that is still in effect, but it is quite sky wise 13:30:48 no, it would have to go straight threw k-town to get me 13:32:10 do you work in IT (even if not a programmer)? or a student? 13:32:18 student 13:32:36 what are you studying? where? 13:32:44 i do system stuff as well 13:33:10 cis, at the local university 13:33:20 im really just doing it for the paper 13:33:36 they don't do the EXTREME HACKING that i dig 13:34:16 try sitting threw a semester of intro programming where the language is Java, it was horrible 13:34:46 --- join: gNoam2 (trilluser@bc-van-reg-a53-01-16.look.ca) joined #forth 13:34:58 the students know 0 about programming, just how to keep the compiler from dying due to all the OO errors 13:35:51 sorry i had a glitch... you are studying what, where? 13:36:05 sorry about that ... gNoam is a ghost ;-) 13:36:10 cis, at the local university 13:36:15 cool 13:36:30 do you have any fave proglangs aside from forth? 13:36:40 i was complaining about how first year programming is Objects over algorithms 13:36:43 please don't say c c++ java or c# ! ;-) 13:36:49 heh 13:36:56 i dig assembly 13:37:23 how perverse 13:37:36 OOP is anti-intuitive 13:37:46 i like C of the Algol family 13:37:55 yeah, i don't really like OO 13:38:10 C is not part of the Algol family... did you mean Pascal? 13:38:31 C is not part of the family, branch lets say 13:38:38 If you wouldn't put C in the Algol family, where would you put it? 13:38:46 Algol, BCPL, B, C, C++, Java ... 13:38:54 but you mix Simula in there 13:38:55 some people call "the Algol family" thusly: "Wirth languages" 13:39:01 after Niklaus Wirth 13:39:01 --- join: rO| (~rO|@pD9EE1BF6.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 13:39:17 no, i don't do any Wirth stuff 13:39:23 i looked at Oberon 13:39:29 as far as families go, this is VERY good:- 13:40:27 http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/ 13:40:47 see especially the top part (general categories), not the bottom part (specific languages) 13:41:14 this is a very cool concept/category:- 13:41:15 http://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Programming/Languages/Language-OS_Hybrids/ 13:41:27 Forth is listed there (and elsewhere) 13:41:42 yeah 13:41:42 --- quit: gNoam (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 13:41:52 --- nick: gNoam2 -> gNoam 13:41:58 my joke about... 13:42:08 why there are so many programming languages... 13:42:17 (hundreds if not thousands)... 13:42:24 is that it's because 13:42:36 all programming languages have severe defects and... 13:42:49 any programmer who comes along will want to write his own language ;-) 13:43:00 or her own (cfr Ada Lovelace) ;-) 13:43:00 true indeed 13:43:31 wetware creates software to run on hardware to simulate wetware (rather poorly) 13:43:35 i was working on my own language, but it turned out to be Lisp, so i tried again, which resulted in Forth 13:43:47 human languages are orders of magnitude more sophisticated than proglangs 13:43:56 hehe 13:44:22 my hp48 calc has uRPL (user RPL) built in... it's like a cross between Lisp and Forth 13:44:27 more Forth than Lisp though 13:44:29 yeah 13:44:43 i dislike functional programming very much :| 13:44:45 sometimes i use the handle hp48nik on this irc server 13:44:46 i must not be a true geek 13:44:59 which languages do you use? 13:45:14 or enjoy? 13:45:16 rpc? 13:45:25 haskell, prolog, maple are the functional languages ive used 13:45:30 haskell is kinda neat 13:45:35 but my brain just doesn't work that way 13:45:46 i enjoy asm on sparc and ARM 13:45:50 C and Perl 13:45:57 FORTH of course 13:45:57 this is very funny:- 13:45:58 :) 13:45:59 http://www.adapower.com/humor/langcomp.html 13:46:11 Perl is interesting but messy and slow 13:46:15 yeah, i do PPC asm, no x86 13:46:37 i've been programming Perl professionaly for over 2 years now 13:46:41 so i have the messy part solved 13:46:44 but i am tired of it 13:46:48 do you know any of the activestate people? 13:46:59 yeah, i used to go to the perl mongers meetings 13:47:03 and got a job at activestate 13:47:16 right when the dotcom bubble burst, and wound up not working there 13:47:24 because they froze my application while waiting for a work visa (i'm american) 13:47:25 do you know mock (will w.) or dick (former activestate ceo)? 13:47:30 ah 13:47:37 i dont think so 13:48:20 i met neil w. 13:48:21 "If the human brain had evolved to use programming languages..." 13:48:37 "We'd all be having dialogues in PERL" - me ;-) 13:48:50 and adam i think it is? the librarian for perl6-dev 13:48:56 do YOU have a webpage, rpc? 13:48:58 perl6 rfcs actually 13:49:05 i don't, nope 13:49:05 ah 13:49:16 active state? 13:49:20 activestate? 13:49:23 got interviewed by gurusamy sarathy, which was intimidating :) 13:49:31 uuter: .com..win32 perl people 13:49:41 why the visa? 13:49:45 they have some interesting ide 13:49:50 they are a canadian company 13:49:51 hehe 13:49:54 ah 13:49:59 http://www.activestate.com 13:50:15 i met the founder/formerceo Dick Hart 13:50:22 he has bumper stickers which say 13:50:32 "If you don't know Perl, you don't know Dick" ;-) 13:52:42 based in vancouver 13:53:22 Robert: I'm from boxholm, and I'm about to switch ISP too :P 13:53:44 Frek: Oh, neat. I never thought Calypso survided the 90s! 13:53:59 Frek: Nice yo meet you anyway :) Esp. since you're a fellow Forther. 13:54:53 Robert: ditto, although I'm pretty much a beginner regarding forth 13:55:25 Oh. How much have you been working with it? 13:55:46 bye all.... BBL... peace, harmony, and high throughput! ;-) 13:55:57 Bye gNoam ! 13:56:06 bye all 13:56:24 --- part: gNoam left #forth 13:56:49 Robert: not that much, I did some OF stuff using it, otherwise close to none 13:57:14 OF? 13:57:16 are you good with OF? 13:57:22 Open Firmware 13:58:08 uuter: not particularly, I just try my way around things. 13:58:11 Oh. Never dealt with that. 13:58:40 I'm using it for cute little microcontrollers, and not-so-cute x86 machines. 13:59:03 you work with embedded stuff? 13:59:13 Only for fun. 13:59:40 And if I told you what I'm doing now, you'd just laugh at me. :) 14:00:01 uuter: i did 14:00:04 i doubt it, i have heard about THE STUPIDEST projects 14:00:54 cool 14:00:56 right now I'm just dealing with it as a hobby, and the fact that I wanted to look closer at forth. 14:00:57 OK. I'm writing a Brainfuck system for a PIC processor running in 0.008 MIPS. 14:01:10