00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.08.05 00:00:31 ghoddhamn !!! 00:00:43 What's up? 00:01:09 nothing in 'Network Neighbourhood' of users 00:01:22 i may type \\Print and see the box 00:01:25 are they in the same 'hood ? 00:01:33 but may not choose by rat 00:01:54 at least, they were be4 power-down 00:01:58 ;( 00:02:04 aaah. 00:02:07 I've had that happen in Windows before. 00:02:12 It was pretty common. 00:02:26 Apparence in Network Neighborhood appears to be dependent on the phase of the moon and the alignment of the planets. 00:03:00 it depends on 'Network Browser' service in domain contr0ller ;) 00:03:28 but i dunno how to make him yell 'Who's alive here!' and rebuild his table 00:03:38 What I don't like is when my printer prints an error page, because it locks up the printer. 00:03:49 It must be physically turned off, then back on, before it'll respond again. >:/ 00:06:51 I just coined the word: bot-terface. 00:10:19 and what it means ? 00:10:48 bot interface. 00:11:35 * Serg_Penguin likes wordplay 00:11:47 :) 00:11:53 isn't that what forth is about? 00:11:59 coming up with new words? :D 00:11:59 yeah ! 00:12:37 once i said what the only words i know in DE: 00:12:55 werrfluchten schwine ! 00:13:10 something pig? 00:13:38 yeah, damned were-pig ;) 00:13:49 heheh. 00:14:11 verflucht(en) - damned 00:14:23 werr ... hm, werevolf ;) 00:14:51 and fluchten? 00:15:16 ha-ha, dunno 00:16:09 RU has rich curse-coinage tradition :) 00:16:34 hahah. 00:20:00 if i wanna say 'Forget it !' expressively, i may say... 00:21:06 OK, going to bed. 00:21:17 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 00:21:26 Strike-a-bom-bram-bitter-cabbage-heart-on-it! 00:21:43 hahah 00:21:57 what does cabbage have to do with it? 00:22:27 cabbage-heart looks like.... hm, fallos 00:22:49 and it sounds in RU much more 'cursely' 00:23:57 and 'bom-bram' is 5-th segment of a sail-ship's mast ;)) 00:28:13 isn't that a little too wordy for 'forget it'? 00:28:28 or is that the russian equivaalent to rm -rf / ? 00:33:59 yeah ! 00:34:07 or, better, 00:34:21 cat /dev/zero > /dev/hda 00:34:23 ;))))) 00:34:39 heheh. 00:43:16 where english gentleman says 'fu..g!', RU says 'twice-through-hard-fu..g!' ;)) 00:47:07 where english men drink tea with a tot of gin, RU drink vodka straight from the bottle aye? 00:48:25 --- quit: ian_p (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:48:25 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:48:25 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:48:26 --- quit: skylan (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:48:26 --- quit: rk (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:48:26 --- quit: XeF4 (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:48:26 --- quit: ChanServ (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:48:26 --- quit: Fractal (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:49:38 --- part: gilbertdeb left #forth 00:51:17 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 00:51:17 --- join: ian_p (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 00:51:17 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4919.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 00:51:17 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 00:51:17 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 00:51:17 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 00:51:17 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 00:51:17 --- join: Fractal (bron@we.brute.forced.your.pgp.key.at.hcsw.org) joined #forth 00:51:17 --- mode: orwell.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 00:55:22 kinda like this 00:55:54 teen girl sucking beer from bottle aye is quite common in our streets ;( 01:02:43 but we say 'throat' then you say 'aye' 01:12:20 --- quit: ian_p (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:12:21 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:12:21 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:12:21 --- quit: skylan (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:12:21 --- quit: XeF4 (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:12:21 --- quit: rk (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:12:21 --- quit: ChanServ (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:12:21 --- quit: Fractal (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:12:49 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 01:12:49 --- join: Fractal (bron@we.brute.forced.your.pgp.key.at.hcsw.org) joined #forth 01:12:49 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 01:12:49 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 01:12:49 --- mode: orwell.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 01:13:02 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 01:13:02 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 01:13:02 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4919.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 01:14:55 --- join: ian_p (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 01:27:43 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 01:54:41 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 01:54:50 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 04:35:49 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-184-213.phnet.fi) joined #forth 04:36:09 --- quit: XeF4 (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:36:09 --- quit: rk (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:36:09 --- quit: ian_p (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:36:09 --- quit: ChanServ (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:36:09 --- quit: Fractal (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:37:53 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 04:37:53 --- join: ian_p (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 04:37:53 --- join: Fractal (bron@we.brute.forced.your.pgp.key.at.hcsw.org) joined #forth 04:37:53 --- mode: orwell.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 04:38:01 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 04:38:01 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 04:38:52 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 04:38:56 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 05:19:51 XeF4 05:19:53 :) 05:43:31 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:43:31 --- quit: skylan (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:45:16 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 05:45:16 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4919.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 05:46:14 --- quit: skylan (Success) 07:28:00 --- nick: mur -> mur|bbl 07:54:49 --- nick: mur|bbl -> mur 08:28:35 --- quit: rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:49:57 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 09:11:50 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:13:10 --- quit: Herkamire (Client Quit) 09:13:14 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 10:43:13 --- join: gilbertdeb (gilbert@fl-nken-u2-c3b-118.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 10:46:03 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-127-122.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 10:46:04 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 10:46:19 I deal with the goddamn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills! I am good at dealing with people! Can't you undersand that? What the hell is wrong with you people? 10:48:27 :) 10:48:46 frankly, the customers think too highly of themselves. 10:50:01 ? 10:50:15 my $0.02 10:50:22 Perhaps, but the customers have the money. 10:52:07 she won't bloody do what I say. 10:52:53 it's a former customer. want's control over her domain that we registered. I can't get her to go to a registrar and request a transfer. 10:53:08 she did it before without asking (so I didn't know to aprove it) 10:53:47 also my girl friend is being a pain in the ass. 10:53:51 sorry, just needed to vent 10:59:17 `hehe 10:59:31 dont shake lemonade bottle or it will blow :) 10:59:46 terve mur 10:59:51 terve gilbert 11:07:03 terve everybody 11:07:16 * rk 's new favorite word is "terve" 11:08:10 terve rk. 11:08:15 heheh. 11:11:28 gilbertdeb: terve! 11:12:43 rk what do you like about sml? 11:14:50 gilbertdeb: uum, dunno 11:14:59 gilbertdeb: its just interesting and fun :P 11:15:04 is it? 11:15:07 kaikki = everyone, everything, everybody 11:15:12 what are some neat things? 11:15:26 kaikki == *.* :P 11:15:37 *, not even *.* :) 11:36:51 * is closer to jokainen 11:37:46 or erm.. regex * is closer to kaikki, but bash * is closer to jokainen 11:37:55 jokainen = every single one 11:38:10 kaikki = absolute everything 11:38:24 yes and * (as a file specifier) generates each argument as a separate value 11:38:31 (dah!) 11:39:30 XeF4: Provided you're running under Unix, that's true. :) 11:40:01 Unix and QNX are the only two OSes I'm aware of that exhibit that behavior. 11:40:39 21:36 < XeF4> or erm.. regex * is closer to kaikki, but bash * is closer to jokainen 11:40:57 kc5tja: whose Unix? 11:40:58 bash exhibits that behaviour wherever it is compiled :-) 11:41:35 XeF4: Not under DOS? 11:41:39 gilbertdeb: All of them. 11:42:09 kc5: bash has some #define flag to pass literal '*'s when built under dos? 11:42:39 XeF4: I don't know. But I do know that it needs to maintain compatibility with existing DOS apps. It has to, somehow. 11:43:06 Maybe a bash-aware program calls back into the shell to pre-parse the command line tail (usually in crt0.obj). 11:43:14 thus giving the appearance of the desired behavior. 11:44:32 quite possibled 11:44:44 Frankly, that's what I would prefer every OS did. 11:45:08 I like the flexibility of being able to work with the command tail literally if I want to, but I like also to have pre-parsed filespecs. :D 11:47:29 better would be a filespec parser function and dynamic scope to peek at the environment from which the program was called 11:47:58 Explain? That last half of the conjunction escapes me. 11:48:10 heheheh. 11:48:38 * XeF4 is good at making false assumptions about others' assumptions 11:49:15 :( 11:49:19 it is an electric storm. 11:49:24 brb. 11:49:27 --- part: gilbertdeb left #forth 11:50:26 Well, I need to get ready and grab some food. 11:50:39 And deposit the last of my customer's checks. 11:50:49 kc5: basicallyl the current working dir, path, etc would be transparently visible to the program 11:50:56 Ahh 11:51:07 Like through a glass box -- you can look, but don't touch. 11:51:17 so generating file lists from filespecs wouldn't be sujch a wretched chore.. 11:51:48 no reason you couldn't touch 11:51:48 * kc5tja nods 11:55:59 ->codecodecode 12:30:45 --- join: gilbertdeb (~gilbertde@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-88.miamfl.adelphia.net) joined #forth 12:57:06 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-afk 13:03:52 --- quit: rk ("Client Exiting") 13:04:37 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 13:18:35 --- join: rO| (~rO|@pD9E5985B.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 13:18:41 lo 13:19:12 hi 13:19:25 whats the c4th channel and server again? 13:19:38 I remembered it yesterday and now i forgot again :( 13:20:00 ircnet #c4th 13:20:12 hmmm. 13:20:20 this time I'll write it down. 13:20:38 how's your c4th'in? 13:21:55 not coming along I'm afraid. 13:22:18 I still don't get it. 13:22:28 I guess I'll have to read the sources to get a better grasp. 13:23:22 ...no topic?... 13:24:30 gilbertdeb: what's the prob? 13:24:34 Interested in publishing an article on or about Forth? If so, we'd love to showcase it on a new #Forth portal site, at http://forth.bespin.org Contact thin or kc5tja via memoserv for details. 13:24:47 r0| I still can't install it. 13:24:50 rk isn't that the topic? 13:25:20 gilbertdeb: tried winc4th yet? 13:25:29 hmmm no. 13:25:39 now that I"m in win2k I might as well try it. 13:26:39 gilbertdeb: uum, no? 13:26:54 ok :-) 13:27:24 --- nick: rO| -> rO|afk 13:27:32 brb 13:28:39 --- part: rk left #forth 13:28:43 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 13:51:10 --- nick: rO|afk -> rO| 13:51:29 gilbertdeb: and..? 13:57:24 hmmm where is the url? 13:58:12 which? 13:58:28 winc4th 13:59:07 http://www.users.qwest.net/~loveall/c4index.htm 13:59:27 http://www.geocities.com/eleks_76/ 14:00:09 there we go. 14:00:11 thanks. 14:10:35 now to read the c4th tutorials ;) 14:12:50 wierd. there is no topic. I didn't notice that 14:13:51 gilbertdeb: erm, which tutorials? 14:14:05 :) 14:14:50 :-) yes, i do rtfs atm 14:15:09 thats what I'm going to have to do as well. 14:34:08 --- join: hko (~hko@famties.dsl.xmission.com) joined #forth 14:34:21 hello all 14:34:31 --- join: suprdupr (CrowKilr@HSE-Windsor-ppp250440.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 14:34:38 --- nick: hko -> Karl_O 14:34:43 it came to me as a revelation yesterday 14:34:51 chuck isnt using drop lookback optimization 14:34:55 like a ?drop 14:35:12 but its no use since theres no drop dup ambiguity requiring a ?drop and a drop 14:35:18 so it could be embedded in drop 14:36:15 I tried to tackle the lookback optimization problem 14:36:35 whats the happy news? :) 14:37:20 that drop can and will be made better 14:37:39 hmmm. 14:37:44 have you written this up? 14:37:45 and that something coudl be made to optimize "pop drop" and the likes 14:38:29 im telling you about it, why write code that youll discard anyway 14:38:49 im trying to come up with something better than simple dup drop opt 14:38:59 opt will mean optimization in the future 14:39:10 i mean in my future statements 14:39:11 ;p 14:39:17 yes I understand. 14:39:35 and also 14:39:42 i found an important concept 14:39:54 do tell. 14:40:17 in a compiler, and in arrays and everywhere, we must use the zero effectively 14:40:31 in a compiler, the opt address stack will never be zero 14:40:56 --- quit: Karl_O ("Client Exiting") 14:41:00 so to test for stack underflow, just do a quick zero test 14:41:32 suprdupr: how can you talk about optimization and checking for stack underflow in the same paragraph? 14:42:03 because they're related 14:42:23 one can use a stack to stack addresses of potential optimizations 14:43:21 thats what chuck's doing, thats where the Bulletproof from bulletproof lookback optimization comes from 14:44:01 so you can test for zero, if its zero then there's no opt to do 14:44:32 drop would first test for zero on the opt stack, if so then compiles a bare drop 14:44:49 if not zero then check for the opcode and branch 14:45:22 the code to handle each opcode can check the distance (instruction just before) and act accordingly 14:45:50 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4919.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 14:45:53 if tehres a lit just before drop, then the drop moves back the "where to compile" pointer previous to the lit so it will be overwritten 14:45:54 have you tested this yet? 14:46:20 nope 14:46:23 but hey 14:46:32 its easy to know it will work ;o) 14:46:33 it was a vision right? ;) 14:46:47 having forth dreams ... 14:46:50 thats something. 14:46:59 just wrote ?dup and then ?drop without thinking about it and then when i reread 14:47:35 in fact, i was udner the influence of vaporized THC, which gives a much higher brainny trip 14:48:14 i thought of buidling vaporizers (a whole crate) using cat5 cables, nichrome wire and some solder, along with an instruction sheet and giving them for free 14:48:26 vaporized THC? 14:48:40 THC like in cannabis ;O) 14:48:47 bah. 14:48:55 and what does cat5 have to do with it? 14:49:00 you're gonna email it??? 14:49:26 or execute it remotely? 14:49:30 * gilbertdeb is lost. 14:50:08 i thought giving dirt cheap vaporizers to dirt cheap people 14:50:27 through the local distribution network called charity 14:50:35 hehe 14:50:50 and they'll think up solutions to intricate economic problems? 14:50:58 i already have it 14:51:03 transparence 14:51:16 about where the money goes, technologies developped by people etc 14:51:26 the truth shall set you free ;o) 14:52:26 anyway, great inspiration 14:52:40 i thought also about bootable cds that would play video presentations or FMVs 14:52:53 powerpoint or movies, anything 14:53:04 would be again easy to burn in quantity and give away for free 14:53:06 like knoppix plays linux upon booting? 14:53:10 yep 14:53:26 I'm sure you can modify knoppix to do exactly what you want. 14:53:36 as a bonus i would like the system to be an opensource dev system 14:53:58 so one cna take any cd burned under that principle and start programming stuff 14:54:08 a bootable forth could easly do this 14:54:20 using every computer's hard drive first sectors 14:54:27 as storage 14:54:32 no need to partitions 14:54:39 s/to/for 14:56:03 lot more useful than those damn AOL cds 14:56:05 store on the harddisk? 14:56:09 hmmm. 14:56:29 I have 448 mb of ram on this machine, and openbsd installed on a 341 mb harddisk with room to spare. 14:56:47 It seems RAM is large enough to do anything these days... 14:56:50 gilbertdeb: did you ever look at my threads at board.flatassembler.net under OS Construction? 14:56:58 yep but for non volatile storage 14:57:01 undre fasm? 14:57:08 hmmm no. 14:57:15 but I have fasm somewhere upstairs. 14:57:17 you're missing something 14:57:21 no need for fasm 14:57:25 its all nasm code lol 14:57:43 i posted yesterday 14:57:47 on forth.bespin.org 14:57:54 both board use phpbb 14:58:33 hmm the loader part isnt cross posted 14:58:50 http://board.flatassembler.net/viewforum.php?f=11 14:59:04 go at this address under the bootide thread 14:59:22 maybe you'll learn something, maybe not, its up to you ;p 15:00:08 I see. 15:00:27 63 bytes free? 15:00:56 sector=512 bytes 15:01:14 if youre under windows get the device sector viwer program I linked 15:01:24 it will enable you to look at your disk 15:01:36 WinHex has a wonderful disk editor 15:02:04 my harddisk is about to die isn't it? 15:02:09 and theres a link to a linux distrib packaging dd for winxp (yeah the raw sector linux prog) 15:02:24 gilbertdeb: i dont understand what you eman at all 15:02:35 j/k 15:02:37 idle comment. 15:03:21 anyway, need a PACKET interface to read data from cd and the fun begins ;p 15:03:33 a better factorization of the pio read command should make this easier 15:05:35 and also I thought how to support forward references and all that stuff 15:06:33 and i came to an interesting idea, a universal break word, "pop drop ret" that would end ANY token parsing loop 15:07:17 the compiler, the display routine, the edit time dictionary (linked list) building 15:07:53 the last things start to make things complicated 15:08:32 forward references need a runtime index reference 15:08:57 becaue when the compiler passes through source code he gives each red word (each definition) its adress 15:09:04 its a compiled code address 15:09:33 the display routines gives a source code address, or screen address i dont know yet how it will work 15:10:43 so at compile time, which i thought i started to master, there still much to learn 15:10:52 jeff already did all this profiling 15:10:58 but he dont come here anymore 15:11:18 email him. 15:11:21 namely because no one cared as much as him or fox about new things and writing tokenized code 15:11:21 or post to clf 15:11:29 thats what i do from time to time 15:11:43 post to clf or the cf mailing list 15:11:58 writing tokenized code. 15:16:09 did you write device sector viewer? 15:17:32 welcome hko 15:18:13 oh.. 15:18:16 nm 15:21:28 --- quit: rO| ("bye") 15:21:44 gilbertdeb: look at the text! 15:22:12 OOOH! 15:22:13 Author: loser 15:22:14 cool 15:22:15 ? 15:22:15 it's empty 15:22:24 what's empty? 15:31:15 topic 15:32:22 so what is this: 15:32:25 ChanServ [#forth] Interested in publishing an article on or about Forth? If so, we'd love to showcase it on a new #Forth portal site, at http://forth.bespin.org Contact thin or kc5tja via memoserv for details. 15:32:34 gilbertdeb: that's chanserv 15:32:44 this channel has no topic 15:32:56 /topic 15:32:58 is the stuff chanserv not good enough? 15:33:04 18:33 -!- No topic set for #forth 15:33:28 cya in 2 weeks 15:33:30 or 3 15:33:33 bye :) 15:33:39 bye 15:34:56 --- quit: rk (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:36:00 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 15:36:22 --- quit: gilbertdeb ("ChatZilla 0.8.31 [Mozilla rv:1.4/20030624]") 15:36:37 --- quit: mur ("see you in week / 2 weeks / 3 weeks / 5 weeks uknown yet") 15:39:55 --- quit: rk (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:40:40 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:41:18 --- nick: kc-afk -> kc5tja 16:46:49 --- topic: set to 'Interested in publishing an article on or about Forth? If so, we'd love to showcase it on a new #Forth portal site, at http://forth.bespin.org Contact thin or kc5tja via memoserv for details.' by kc5tja 16:47:13 There. Now hopefully people will stop complaining about the topic. 16:50:22 hi 16:51:56 I'm takling the forth primitives issue, and i came with a ?drop. 16:52:08 even chuck in his cforth doesnt use drop lookback elimination 16:52:18 err, optimization lol 16:52:31 but truly, thys horrendous typo tells it all 16:52:57 drop dup, remove both instructions 16:53:22 no need for ?drop since the dup drop can happen at every level, not only the macro(emulation) level 16:54:03 I never saw this basic data stack flow optimization discussed anywhere 16:54:10 maybe I could write an article lol 16:54:28 The problem is, you can't just optimize out "drop dup." 16:54:41 1 2 3 4 --> 1 2 3 4 16:54:48 1 2 3 4 drop dup --> 1 2 3 3 17:09:46 i know that 17:10:05 but drop eliminating previous dup is always the way to go at every level 17:10:37 nobody did that in their forth that I know of, not even chuck 17:11:05 drop dup needs a macrolevel ?dup and a primitive class dup 17:11:43 but you can use drop in the macro definition and at the forth level 17:11:57 i mean the same lookback optimizable drop 17:16:16 --- quit: kc5tja (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:16:16 --- quit: XeF4 (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:16:16 --- quit: ian_p (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:16:17 --- quit: rk (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:16:17 --- quit: ChanServ (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:16:17 --- quit: skylan (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:16:17 --- quit: Herkamire (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:16:17 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:16:17 --- quit: Fractal (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 17:18:48 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-127-122.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 17:18:48 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 17:18:48 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4919.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 17:18:48 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h000094d30ba2.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 17:18:48 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 17:18:48 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 17:18:48 --- join: ian_p (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 17:18:48 --- join: Fractal (bron@we.brute.forced.your.pgp.key.at.hcsw.org) joined #forth 17:18:48 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 17:18:48 --- mode: orwell.freenode.net set +oo kc5tja ChanServ 17:19:46 dup drop is fairly easy to optimize out. 17:19:47 I suppose Chuck never bothered with it because it happens so rarely in his code. 17:19:47 If at all. 17:23:14 dup drop would be in my code if i wanted to disable the destructive behavior of let say push 17:23:25 thats the kind of complexity i ran into 17:23:33 the drop is at the end 17:24:15 it must not be worth it now that I think of it 17:25:06 would be great for genetic programming though, generate random code, projecting good thoughts and let the computer optimize away stupid stuff ;p 17:26:22 genetic programming could be done at the assembly level qith good fault handlers 17:26:42 ok this is an invalid opcode, ok this one go through the memory barrier etc 17:26:56 hehe 17:27:00 brb 17:30:51 another interesting thing: 17:31:47 putting stuff into memory, save a copy and patch the mbr, reboot, 17:32:20 when into that code just put the mbr in its place and voila clean system to play with, in ram at a distance 17:32:56 anyway just a weird exploit idea ;p 17:39:49 I don't follow what you're getting at. 17:40:03 --- join: Trey3 (~guest@adsl-66-140-134-49.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) joined #forth 17:40:40 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@207.111.96.135) joined #forth 17:40:40 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 17:40:46 hiya all 17:41:57 hi 17:42:05 hiya suprdupr 17:42:56 Is memory zeroed when i use ports to reboot my PC? if yes, then forget what I said earlier 17:44:26 likely not 17:45:12 evidence #1: there is a certain memory address that BIOS depends on to check whether it is cold booting or not 17:45:29 thats exaclty what I thought ;p 17:45:32 1234h 17:45:43 evidence #2: ....(anyone else care to fill that in? :) 17:45:49 yep 17:46:33 so an exploit could patch the mbr of the machine, or first sector of disquette or whatever is used and then reboot, put the backup mbr into place and have a clean machine to play with 17:48:52 um...BIOS typically would look at either floppy drive or hard drive and try to load MBR in first, so this trick might not work...unless you are thinking about vectoring MBR on said medium to elsewhere... 17:51:28 --- quit: Trey3 ("Client Exiting") 17:52:30 one very neat thing would be a virus, or worm that would install forth on a HD, in the first unusued sectors 17:53:21 would be hard but neat ;p 17:53:22 I rather would not have viruses (even kewl ones) running around....*sigh* get a life.... 17:54:18 kk, no more out of nowhere talk for the night on #forth 17:56:46 I don't mind discussing technical stuff, but I don't want to encourage virus coding of any kinds...it is best to leave that to each own, if only to fulfill his/her/new-possessive-pronoun-of-the-day curiosity 17:58:13 viruses are evil 18:01:19 * TheBlueWizard nods 18:01:45 white hat viruses? closing the door after they went in? 18:01:56 i dont get the point. nobody needs them except maybe the FBI or CIA or KGB 18:03:43 or Symantec or McAfee or...I just don't care... 18:04:06 i saw an IRIS from SGI for sale at a local pawn shop, 35$CAN 18:04:22 hmm! real cheap 18:05:26 gotta go...bye all 18:05:34 see you later, take care 18:06:01 bye suprdupr...and don't think about writing up viruses :) 18:06:18 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 18:29:17 --- quit: rk ("Computer Processing Overload ... should I overclock?") 18:39:22 Evidence #2 -- recoverable RAM disks that survive a warm boot. :) 18:56:18 --- join: ooo (~o@jalokivi.netsafir.com) joined #forth 18:56:25 --- join: rk (~rk@ca-cmrilo-docsis-cmtsj-b-36.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:56:58 jalokivi.. Finnish forth presence, for real? =) 18:57:09 yes 18:57:48 we are not plenty 18:59:33 one day i'll implement finnish (lang) as a forthish programming language. :) 19:00:03 I tried that but never come up with anything useful =) 19:00:35 hmz, two consecutive =)s it must be getting late 19:00:57 it should depend on lla, ssa, sta, aan and so forth. ;) 19:01:45 *nod* I tried a colorforth-like thing with -lla to momentarily switch vocabs and so-forth 19:03:27 auto autoissa. kuljettaja siniseksi. kuljettaja autoon. 19:03:42 something like that.. 19:05:07 kuljettaja ( -- kuski) is straightforward, siniseksi not so without bizarre data conversion hacks 19:06:01 i have been thinking about using a high level oo lang to implement it. 19:06:31 but yeah, bad example :) 19:10:12 translative good for filter invocations though 19:10:40 -yys for type predicates and so-on 19:10:49 sijainti 2 19 cm paperille sivunumeroksi. paperista sivuksi tamasivu. numero 5 tamasivun sivunumeroon. 19:11:54 hups, sijainti 2 19 cm cm paperille..... 19:13:20 eiku 2 cm 19 cm 19:13:25 ok 19:13:38 helpompi niin 19:14:23 either way should work anyway.. 19:15:35 but this will still need lots of thinking before even planning a implementation. 19:16:39 actually I think it could be crufted onto colorforth with a good parser 19:18:37 maara 50 paperia kirjaan. sivut kirjassa: sivun sivusumeroksi 1 + ... 19:19:45 i haven't had a chance to use colorforth.. it doesn't work on any of my machines.. 19:21:26 1 + sivunumeroon \ sivunumerohan on kiinteä muistipaikka 19:21:47 sivunumero on paperin instanssi. 19:22:24 why not just sivu then? 19:23:05 sivu is a instance of the kirja array 19:23:56 defined before ssa of the array. 19:25:26 it's really just a temporary reference to a paperi instance in the kirja array. 19:25:35 so we have an unresolved string until we reach kirjassa which parses it afterwards and begins compiling 19:25:44 yes. 19:26:08 or maybe it should be: "kirjassa sivut:" 19:26:31 or just kirjan sivut 19:26:52 kirjassa sivut ja sivun sivunumero: 19:27:44 er right, kirja is an array 19:28:51 kirjan sivut would return a sivu instance of kirja (in this case, a copy of every paperi in kirja) 19:29:56 why not kirjasta sivut for that? 19:30:29 in that case the loop would be: "sivunipuksi kirjan sivut. sivunipussa taapaperi: taapaperin sivunumeroksi 1 + . 19:30:30