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00:00:16 <kc5tja> It might be harder than you think with a synchronous bus design.
00:03:05 <kc5tja> Not impossible, but harder than, say, a PowerPC's bus architecture.
00:03:23 <kc5tja> I'd say that you could reasonably expect to get 4 CPUs running symmetrically.
00:03:44 <kc5tja> Maybe if you built 20 computers, each with their own memory segments, and they communicated via network links of some kind, that would certainly work.
00:07:01 <gilbertdeb> but then I'd have to create a NIC.
00:07:24 <gilbertdeb> that sounds a lot harder than building an amazing 4bit Viktor machine.
00:07:56 <kc5tja> A network is not the same as an Ethernet network.
00:08:02 <kc5tja> There are other types.
00:08:29 <gilbertdeb> serial network perhaps?
00:09:11 <hefner> how hard is it to build something that arbitrates access to memory between the CPUs?
00:09:14 <kc5tja> Serial, parallel -- many different types.
00:09:25 <kc5tja> hefner: Simple in concept, hard in practice.
00:09:30 <kc5tja> Lots of little details.
00:09:48 <kc5tja> Every doubling of CPUs results in 4x the circuit complexity.
00:09:54 <kc5tja> (for an efficient unit)
00:11:27 <hefner> that doesn't sound quite right, I would've guessed 3x, as for 4 CPUs I can take the unit that handled 2 CPUs and build two more of them, into a tree of sorts
00:11:35 <hefner> but then I'm quite tired :)
00:11:52 <kc5tja> That's logic gates.
00:11:55 <kc5tja> That's not complexity.
00:12:10 <hefner> define complexity, then
00:13:26 <kc5tja> It's a nebulous concept, really.
00:13:45 <kc5tja> It involves debugging effort, design effort, etc.
00:14:01 <kc5tja> And, actually, it can be measured in gates.
00:14:07 <kc5tja> I hadn't realized this until now.
00:14:26 <gilbertdeb> complexity in this context: a geometrical increase in the number of connections needed per arithmetic increase in chip numbers.
00:14:31 <gilbertdeb> </bad definition>
00:15:06 <kc5tja> If you use the "nested" approach as you suggest, the number of gates does go up by a factor of three, but at the cost of speed.
00:15:11 <gilbertdeb> Or complexity according to stuart kaufmann has to do with self-organizing emergences and other REALLY nebulous concepts.
00:15:54 <hefner> yeah, propagation delay would be a problem
00:17:14 <hefner> it occurs to me that as the depth of the tree increases, the cost in gates for doubling the number of nodes should approach 2x, but the propagation delay only increases logarithmically
00:17:32 <hefner> but yeah, there's probably better designs
00:17:39 <hefner> I don't know anything about this stuff. :)
00:18:46 <kc5tja> It'll actually be lg2 n
00:18:54 <hefner> yep
00:19:07 <kc5tja> But, anyway, I should be going to bed soon.
00:21:45 <gilbertdeb> me too. I'm puppy tired.
00:24:38 * hefner ponders what he could build with the handful of junk he has lying around
00:25:41 <gilbertdeb> a light switch?
00:25:54 <hefner> heh, too easy
00:26:33 <hefner> my best idea is to do something involving a counter and an eeprom to animate a pattern on some LEDs, but I have no clock generator
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00:26:59 <hefner> and a nonexistant grasp of analog electronics to try and build one :)
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00:30:33 <gilbertdeb> order a clock generator.
00:30:35 <gilbertdeb> or build one.
00:30:42 <gilbertdeb> it is an inverter really!
00:31:01 <gilbertdeb>  [-|>-]
00:31:30 <gilbertdeb> a clock generator is an infinite loop of sorts...
00:31:50 <hefner> you need some sort of delay in there somewhere
00:32:35 <gilbertdeb> yeah, the rest of the circuit :)
00:33:02 <hefner> I'm going to try stepping the counter with a button
00:33:10 <hefner> I want some instant gratification
00:33:21 <gilbertdeb> get a small child to press the button for you then.
00:33:29 <gilbertdeb> they'll be eternally grateful.
00:33:54 <hefner> as will I.
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01:27:41 <rO|> morning
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08:44:39 <suprdupr> when i try to program my ide drive to read i get the following
08:44:40 <suprdupr>         xor EAX, EAX        ;debug
08:44:40 <suprdupr>         mov dx, 1f7h
08:44:40 <suprdupr>         in al, dx
08:44:40 <suprdupr>         shl EAX, 8
08:44:40 <suprdupr>         dec EDX
08:44:42 <suprdupr>         in al, dx
08:44:44 <suprdupr>         shl EAX, 8
08:44:46 <suprdupr>         sub edx, 5h
08:44:48 <suprdupr>         in al, dx
08:44:50 <suprdupr>         call ShowDword
08:44:52 <suprdupr>         jmp $                ;Result=0050E000 
08:45:22 <suprdupr> that means a device fault condition happenned
08:45:29 <suprdupr> yayyyy ;p
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08:54:28 <suprdupr> nope thats false!, my code is working now, my lba address was starting from 1!!
08:54:36 <suprdupr> its supposed to strat from zero
08:54:53 <suprdupr> i read that somewhere that it stared from 1... anyway now my code works!!
08:54:56 <gilbertdeb> you had an obiwan error?
08:55:06 <gilbertdeb> what does your code do?
08:55:13 <suprdupr> go in pmode
08:55:17 <suprdupr> disable interrupts
08:55:23 <suprdupr> flat 4GB pmode
08:55:58 <suprdupr> then read up to 60 or so sector (before overwriting itself) from the hd
08:56:06 <suprdupr> and jump to it, at zero
08:56:24 <suprdupr> look at board.flatassembler.net
08:56:31 <suprdupr> under os construction
08:56:56 <gilbertdeb> ah you're using fasm!
08:57:01 <gilbertdeb> what do you think of it? 
08:57:07 <gilbertdeb> compared to nasm,masm etc/
08:59:06 <suprdupr> best syntax
08:59:10 <suprdupr> but big con
08:59:14 <suprdupr> lack listing output
08:59:21 <suprdupr> so NASM is still the best ;p
08:59:30 <suprdupr> and fasm is written in assembly
08:59:36 <suprdupr> in itself actually
09:01:23 <suprdupr> anyway im just doing a code cleanup, test and then ill post it
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09:31:00 <a7r> re..
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10:01:34 <suprdupr> the code now works flawlessly!
10:01:45 <suprdupr> i even changed my inspiration link to chuck's ide.html page
10:02:00 <suprdupr> that was the real inspiration
10:11:41 <ianni> so beatiful
10:11:43 <ianni> that code
10:11:45 <ianni> heheeh
10:16:36 <suprdupr> i got lots to do today, see ya everyone!
10:16:43 <suprdupr> btw if you have a floppy or cdr lying around, would you mind testing my code?
10:16:52 <suprdupr> i put a display routine in it
10:17:13 <suprdupr> more like a dump routine, so it doesnt jump tothe laoded sector but display it
10:17:28 <suprdupr> in textmode
10:17:41 <suprdupr> ill be back in a couple hours from now, bye!
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11:07:37 <GnuVince> Hey, I didn't know "Starting FORTH" was available on the net!
11:09:07 <gilbertdeb> someone got fed up about its lack of availability and put it there.
11:20:08 <mur> ,oip
11:20:09 <mur> moi
11:20:40 <gilbertdeb> terve.
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15:09:49 <Robert> mur: Hello
15:09:57 <Robert> I'm going away now, for about 3 weeks... see you later
15:11:25 <mur> moi
15:11:28 <mur> holidays?
15:11:31 <mur> where're you going?
15:11:40 <mur> south like birds?
15:11:59 <mur> or east like some of the swedish tourists.. to aland, finalnd
15:12:26 <Robert> Nah.
15:12:30 <Robert> .de and .at :)
15:12:43 <mur> what ever you do, please remember that http://www.engrish.com/recent/source/hot-pond.html
15:14:06 <Robert> :D
15:15:16 <mur> will you remember that?
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15:30:49 <Robert> brb, ~20 days.
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16:39:55 <suprdupr> I440r: my ide bootloader is working! http://board.flatassembler.net
16:40:19 <suprdupr> i know you're into 8051 stuff right now, but you might find the idea interesting for future x86 projects
16:40:45 <I440r> :)
16:41:15 <I440r> are you the guy developing teh flat assembler ?
16:41:25 <suprdupr> nope
16:41:30 <I440r> aha :)
16:41:41 <suprdupr> its under OS Construction
16:45:33 <suprdupr> anyway brb
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17:10:16 <suprdupr> i got an optimization for ;
19:11:41 --- log: started forth/03.07.30
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19:11:41 --- topic: '#Forth site: http://forth.bespin.org || 'pure' linux forth coded in asm: http://isforth.clss.net || Also remember to check out Jeff Fox's articles, located at http://www.ultratechnology.com/dindex.htm'
19:11:41 --- topic: set by thin on [Sun Jun 08 10:42:15 2003]
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