00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.07.24 00:20:46 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 00:39:52 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 00:40:08 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 01:38:53 --- join: schickhj (~schickhj@blueice1x.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 01:40:06 Is there a good forth book which can be downloaded? 01:41:53 perhaps as pdf file 02:50:03 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:26:32 --- join: shaurz (~a@public2-leds1-6-cust71.leed.broadband.ntl.com) joined #forth 03:27:36 anyone here? 03:28:47 guess not 03:29:06 --- quit: shaurz (Client Quit) 03:48:58 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 03:49:10 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 04:14:28 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 04:15:09 hi 04:15:13 anyone online ? 04:15:44 hi serg 04:16:15 whadda you think on making forth sources mega-archive ? 04:16:28 or it already exists ? 04:17:10 and, more, forth _ideas_ mega archive, categorized and w/ short example proggie 04:17:25 hmm a la cpan equivalent you mean? 04:17:32 yeah ! 04:18:06 why not! got hosting space? 04:18:15 nope ! 04:18:24 aww ;-) 04:18:37 net is xpensive in RU ;( 04:19:24 i will think about, though i might even have less money than you ;-) 04:20:00 where are you from ? 04:21:14 .de atm 04:22:11 de ?! cool 04:22:22 i got an off-topic question 04:22:37 do you know who is Wolfgang Luth ? 04:23:04 -- 04:23:24 he' was 2nd U-bot ace after Krechmer ;) 04:23:45 and he wrote a book of his captain experience 04:23:59 'Problems of Leadership' or kinda like this 04:24:26 no idea 04:24:31 ;(( 04:24:43 isn't my story at all ;-) 04:24:55 we know our history better ;((( 04:25:20 what's w/ WWII history in DE ? 04:25:34 maybe it's brainwashed out ? 04:25:56 well, i know something about history. even .de history.. 04:26:29 what's told about WWII in books and school ? 04:27:02 learned from school books of several nations/schools 04:27:28 many differences ? 04:27:56 basically the same story, mainstream mind programming 04:28:15 yes, interesting diff's 04:28:26 i found out later.. 04:28:41 i was in school at history hard turn... 04:28:52 coz of poverty and lack of books.. 04:29:05 half of a class had old books, half - new ones 04:29:12 AMAZING diff's ! 04:29:36 "lack of books" that might not be an disadvantage ;-) 04:30:05 almost everyone noticed, and all class LOLed at teacher 04:30:22 :-) 04:32:16 does average German schoolboy know any WW2 heroes, either German or enemy's ? 04:33:15 learned from school books of several nations/schools 04:33:15 <-- well, should have learned. all i really learnt, came from my own research or masters i found 04:34:02 learned from school books of several nations/schools <-- well, should have learned. all i really learnt, came from my own research or masters i found 04:34:30 so, if i go down the street in DE, asking who was Erich Hartmann or Otto Krechmer or Kurt Tank, answer maybe 'moo' ? 04:34:50 .de is not about heroes 04:35:16 so who is Kurt Tank ? ;(( 04:40:36 warburg got money from rockefeller, who got money from redchild. hitler got money from nsdap, which got money from paneuropean union, which got money from warburg. all were major sums at major important point of times (to be or not to be). now, in what regard is kurt tank important to this historic chapter? 04:40:44 --- quit: schickhj (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:41:00 --- join: schickhj (~schickhj@blueice1x.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 04:44:04 also, the leader of the nsdap was a member of freemasonry, which incorporated already forementioned megabankers 04:44:23 --- quit: schickhj (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:44:39 --- join: schickhj (~schickhj@blueice1x.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 04:45:55 ;)) 04:46:30 Kurt Tank was designer of FW-190 fighter and many more bright aircrafts 04:47:18 for masons - 04:47:32 bolsheviks were money and weapon supplied from the wallstreet (even b4 1917) 04:48:12 it's well known what jews who took over USA by that time, made RU and DE bleed to avoid any competitors 04:48:25 original docs copies are available 04:50:37 fortunately, because it's hard to believe, such a thing. no untrustworthy speculation, documented facts instead. 04:54:41 --- quit: schickhj (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:54:51 --- join: schickhj (~schickhj@blueice1x.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 04:55:48 --- quit: schickhj (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:55:53 --- join: schickhj (~schickhj@blueice1x.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 04:56:58 --- quit: schickhj (Connection reset by peer) 04:57:02 --- join: schickhj (~schickhj@blueice1x.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 04:57:43 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 05:00:52 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:04:38 --- quit: tathi (Client Quit) 05:18:00 --- quit: schickhj (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:18:19 --- join: schickhj (~schickhj@blueice1x.de.ibm.com) joined #forth 05:54:54 --- join: SuprDupr (CrowKilr@Ottawa-HSE-ppp3654446.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 06:24:13 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-186-178.phnet.fi) joined #forth 06:27:38 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 06:27:50 hi 06:28:00 hi 06:43:54 hi 06:45:35 hi 07:00:32 hi 07:06:40 all aboard ;) 07:07:05 * Serg_Penguin feels like badly drunk coz lack of sleep 07:07:18 * onetom feels the same 07:07:45 actually, i had NEVER been drunk too hard 07:07:48 ;) 07:08:44 i play Sea Dogs 2 nowdays, and it seems 2 be very bad and very arcede 07:09:34 whadda u think, is it possible to write a PIRATES-like sea game in Forth, in one hands and in reasonable time ? 07:10:13 * Serg_Penguin wants to spit in BETHEDA face w/ some piece of really bright code 07:11:42 me neither 07:11:47 Serg_Penguin!! :) 07:11:49 onetom 07:11:50 :) 07:12:10 would you like your game to go native? 07:29:55 anyway IMO bright code is native ;p 07:32:01 native code ? 07:32:10 no, w/ nowdays CPU power 07:32:23 i want primitive GFX but bright gameplay ;) 07:39:04 Serg_Penguin can you set colours yourself ? 07:39:28 good colours can increase "resolution quality" by 200% :) 07:45:33 no, i seem to set only 'acid' colors what are hard to see 07:45:50 acid colours? 07:45:59 the 16 base colours? 07:46:40 i mean i'm no expert in finding visually good color combinations 07:47:00 but you can set freely all the 16 colours? 07:47:09 what graphics mode do you use ? 07:47:14 and are you doing ascii graphics ? :) 07:47:21 in Forth ? 07:47:28 in the game 07:47:47 i may use ASCII, VGA 13H, EGA 640x480x16, or VESA 07:48:33 what game did you decided to do? :) 07:48:41 i wanna more hi-res 4 sea thing, so EGA 640 or VESA 07:48:59 i not 'decided' t00 hard.. 07:49:20 butt i think of sea combat + economic strategy 07:49:53 so you drill for minerals and sell them and combat with others to get more? 07:50:08 try to find 'Sea Legends' - it's my favorite sea game, done by RU guys 07:50:12 HELL NO ! 07:50:21 i sail from port to port 07:50:28 buy low, sell high 07:50:36 oh! 07:50:40 That's cool idea 07:50:52 any competitors ? fire at will ! 07:50:58 * mur did that in pirates. i _supposed_ to conquer boats, but i played at market like that :) 07:51:18 in 'legends', i started poor 07:51:41 i like Konquest type games 07:51:48 so i byed cheapest boat, sold guns coz so i could take more cargo.. 07:52:03 maybe having each ships conatining a certain amount of ressources, like wood, metal etc 07:52:18 sinking a ship and retrieving it makes you have more ressources 07:52:28 or maybe a cannon upgrade for your ship 07:52:34 would be sooooo great 07:52:49 then i had enough gold, i bought a frigate and startted to rob others 07:52:58 SuprDupr: hell no ! 07:52:58 :) 07:53:19 if u 'sink' ship, u gain NOTHING 07:53:32 underwater gunpowder, like cannons in water, with russian "water bullets" like tested on the submarine that sunken a while ago 07:53:56 if u seize it by overboard attack, u rob cargo and guns/ammo from it 07:54:18 lol common sense, your all the way right ;p 07:54:31 never played any game like that 07:54:38 i'll be back later 07:54:44 going for a walk with dog 07:55:04 * Serg_Penguin hates dog shit in a street 07:55:11 lol] 07:55:25 goign to forrest 07:55:29 i'm shortsighted, so step in often 07:55:42 there are "take up shit from ground" bags at some places 07:56:12 bbl 07:56:37 * Serg_Penguin nearly made a crossbow-size slingshot to knock all the shit from that vermins 07:57:42 imagine a dog being cracked apart, like destroyer by torpedo ;) 07:58:46 what's for games.. 07:59:26 i wanna not only goods market but also currency market.. it would be more fun 07:59:34 damn 07:59:44 i gotta go home to have a sleep.... 08:00:01 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 08:01:05 http://board.flatassembler.net/viewforum.php?f=11 08:01:12 why can't we change the topic?? 08:01:19 ;pp 08:01:49 the true place of that project is on forth.bespin.org but i can't access the site reliably 08:06:45 --- join: jacereda (~jacereda@joquer.act.uji.es) joined #forth 08:06:55 hi 08:08:39 i am working on a better foreign function interface for gforth, i am looking for some ideas on how should a foreign definition look 08:08:50 any suggestion? 08:30:59 foreighn function? what do you mean? 08:31:44 jacereda: foreign function? what do you mean? 08:34:01 SuprDupr: "..can't access .. reliably.." what's up? 08:42:46 I mean calling DLLs from forth 08:43:09 theres a "proxy error" when i try to access the site 08:43:54 jacereda: are you familiar with colorforth? 08:44:00 yes 08:44:26 k, quick test: what is ?lit 08:44:55 if you understand that youll understand my project at http://board.flatassembler.net/viewforum.php?f=11 08:45:15 in chuck moore colorforth implementation? 08:45:21 yep 08:46:19 can't remember, I looked at it a long time ago 08:47:50 doesn't matter much, please look at my YATF post and tell me if you find it interesting 08:50:14 ugh, I hate x86 08:50:31 how does it differ from a conventional assembler? 08:54:22 ah, ok... you talk about a forth, not about fasm 09:01:10 the architecture it runs on is horrible, but the token scheme is very portable 09:01:36 do you have it working? 09:02:08 the second post explains where I am 09:02:16 i have colorcode for most of the primitives 09:02:29 but first i want to handle conditional branches 09:02:39 so that i can enhance this code 09:03:05 It's on its way 09:14:12 --- quit: schickhj ("Client exiting") 09:14:56 this YATF thingy looks a lot like my super-mini colorforth for 4kb intros 09:15:34 except that I store the counted strings in a separate area because they're not useful to the running image 09:15:38 * SuprDupr is DEEPLY interested to learn about that!! 09:16:55 string table... I thought about it, it makes lot of sense actually 09:17:25 do you have source code near you? 09:17:41 no. source is at home 09:18:29 adam.marquis(NOSPAMHERE)sympatico.ca 09:18:32 and not to be released until I release some production with it (hopefully at ASM03 but no promises) 09:18:40 kk 09:18:58 but how the editor work? do you use one oir do it by hand? 09:20:01 I have a rather clunky editor written in bigforth which at the moment isn't much better than doing it by hand 09:20:13 rather, in principle I have an editor, but I don't "use" it. 09:20:53 can you outline your forth's fonctionning? 09:23:19 setup read/write/execute arena;load first octet, use the low bit as a jump vector. green, call the compilation routine at ops[tokenval] 09:24:06 s/tokenval/tokenval*8/ 09:24:57 if red, make an opcode table entry consisting of the current value of HERE and a vector to the standard compilation routine 09:25:18 (this is done so I can special-case certain ops by hand) 09:25:31 repeat. 09:26:31 so you have a 128*8 array to hold adresses associated with your words 09:26:33 ? 09:26:34 I've been toying with run-length incoding the token stream so I free up more bits to pack small integers and yellow words without too big a penalty 09:26:38 yes 09:26:55 how many colors? 09:27:46 implemented+working, just red+green. 09:27:59 this has to change SOON 09:28:55 i used only definitions and jump to those definitions, then i used sequential definition, then i didnt need the 128 range anymore etc 09:29:13 i started almost the same way you describe 09:29:36 "definitions and jumped to those definitions"? 09:29:46 red and yellow words 09:30:02 one bit to define word x or to jump to word x 09:30:21 then it occured to me a merge with textial source was possible 09:30:35 this process was inspired by AHA 09:31:02 but the code in the primitives comes from CF, maybe there's something better to do 09:32:02 how do you lay any code down if you have only yellow and red? 09:32:14 I assume you're using the same colouring conventions as Chuck 09:32:18 well you prebuild primitives 09:32:32 thats why I abandoned it 09:33:46 and why I introduced a binary citation token (much like: "strange word") 09:33:52 i thought about full ascii 09:34:17 binary citation? 09:34:34 indigo word 09:34:53 it copy from source to compiled code a certain amount of byte, from 1 to 32 09:35:01 straight and easy 09:35:14 ah right 09:35:22 but I came to think its a waste of time 09:35:28 and ressources 09:35:44 that makes a 32bit green integer take 48 bits, but otherwise ok 09:35:46 since its ram-ram move, when one could just jump directly to the thing 09:36:49 what do you mean, 48 bits? 09:36:54 I thought about using such a system, but it seemed like code using it too much would be a nightmare to debug in a hurry 09:37:32 I mean 8 bits for the token that compiles to push eax;mov eax,<32int>, 8 bits for the citation token and 32 bits for the value itself 09:37:46 yeah the editor NEED a quick dissassembler, or a competent programmer with an opcode cheat sheet ;p 09:38:19 and for democoding, one must be able to debug in a hurry =) 09:39:09 in my system, the first 8 bit is a reference to the # word 09:39:25 so i write #12345678 with the correct colors of course 09:40:09 #: ?dup opt 1, "B8" ; 09:40:37 opt is to keep track of the address for lookback optimization 09:41:30 ?dup is called, opt and 1, are executed 09:42:07 opt compiles code for mov ECX, EBX mov EBX, EDI (EDI == HERE) 09:42:52 its easy to debug assembly statements for the compiler at least, since it uses almost always lea and mov 09:43:01 sometimes inc too 09:43:21 but tell me, how would you implement it? 09:43:38 in your system? do you need more research time? 09:44:10 * SuprDupr is sure his forth could be used for 4k demos 09:44:41 you have an ahead-looking 1,? 09:45:07 it compiles inc EDI mov [EDI-1], ... 09:45:17 you put the byte after using binary compile 09:45:25 little slower I guess but easier to work with 09:46:00 i define 2, then 4, then 1, is defined using 4, 09:46:13 those primitive compile code to compile 2, 4 or 1 byte 09:46:20 so in source code i gain compression 09:47:36 btw You can take any ideas from me, just dont keep your project closed, i want to see the improvements ;p 09:48:21 1, -> mov [ebp],al ; inc ebp 09:48:28 + pop eax 09:48:33 brb 09:53:02 back 09:53:21 that way it's easier to compute opcodes on the stack 09:54:59 would be neat to have compilecall tokens replaced by address tokens and forth primitives pre-built in a system, so one could actually build them on the stack 09:55:27 doing Here call 09:55:39 call: b8 1, 4, ; 09:55:45 hmmmmmmmm 09:55:53 HMMMMMMMMMM!!! 09:56:07 * SuprDupr is seriously thinking of getting rid of his compilecall token 09:56:49 i wantb to build forward and backward conditionals jumpss 09:57:21 don't forget that is a relative call 09:57:32 yep 09:57:44 missed the substraction 09:57:44 so b8 1, here 4+ - 4, ; 09:59:59 hey, thanks for getting me thinking in that direction again =) 10:01:18 now the only problem is the binary string tokens that still bother me 10:07:31 anyway, must go 10:07:44 bye! 10:33:12 --- part: jacereda left #forth 10:38:02 i got an idea for my binstring token 10:38:10 if that interest anyone ;p 10:38:39 mov [EBP-4], ESI jmp Skipcomment 10:39:25 it redefines the last red word to point to it, inside source code instead of moving stuff around in memory 10:43:55 its inspired from my GO! word 10:44:17 it exit the compiler loop and jump to the last defined word using [EBP-4] 10:45:04 i knew this feture was coming sooner or later now it exists: almost instant execution from source code 10:45:24 * SuprDupr 's typos are horrible 10:56:14 no it doesnt fix the bincopy problem at all, maybe because its not a problem in the first place 11:51:49 * SuprDupr just realized he didnt even his call rel32 offset correctly in his source since the beginning lol! 11:52:49 * SuprDupr missed the word "calculated" in his last statement 11:58:41 * SuprDupr is an alarmist, its all ok after all 12:03:30 --- quit: SuprDupr ("ill be back later") 13:23:49 --- join: SuprDupr (CrowKilr@Ottawa-HSE-ppp3654446.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:26:55 --- quit: SuprDupr (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:55:43 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 13:55:44 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 13:59:54 can someone tell serg_penguin that i have some graphics for him 14:00:06 When I see him. 14:00:39 * kc5tja just sent him a memo using memoserv. 14:00:56 It reads, "Mur says he has some graphics for you. Please contact mur for further details." 14:01:02 heh 14:01:17 * mur doenst read his memos but once every 2 months :) 14:02:10 laters 14:02:12 bbl 14:02:14 When you log in, it says whether or not you have memos. 14:02:18 OK, laters. 14:02:26 yes, if you identify yourself 14:03:02 So identify yourself. :) 14:03:09 I do it every single time I log on. 14:44:58 --- join: rO|_ (~rO|@pD9E59FAE.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:53:29 --- quit: rO| (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:55:51 --- join: tcn (~tcn@tc3-login36.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 14:57:53 --- quit: tcn (Client Quit) 14:58:21 --- join: onetom_ (~root@cab.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 14:59:37 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:12:47 some1 there? 15:13:38 Depends on what you mean. 15:22:23 wonders why cm's c4th is written in masm 15:22:59 and not eg. in forth 15:25:45 It's easier. 15:25:59 You cannot completely write Forth in Forth. 15:26:11 At some point, you will need to resort to some form of assembly language. 15:27:10 My Forth environments, for example, are written "in Forth," but not FS/Forth. I have a target compiler that I wrote in another Forth environment, which attempts to emulate FS/Forth as closely as possible, but it's not perfect. 15:27:29 * kc5tja is strongly considering the possibility of writing FS/Forth for Linux in raw NASM. 15:27:58 tried fasm yet? 15:29:57 I looked at it once. I'm not terribly impressed with it. 15:31:53 it worked right away, assembling itself. 15:32:43 I didn't say it was a bad product. 15:32:48 I just wasn't impressed with it. 15:32:57 It doesn't offer any compelling reason for me to change assemblers. 15:33:51 written in itself, that's clearly a plus 15:34:07 Not for me it isn't. 15:34:24 * kc5tja could care less about whether or not it's written in itself. :) 15:34:36 s/could/couldn't/ 15:34:49 to me, it's just a tool. 15:38:07 probably a matter of time spent w/ asm 15:38:57 I used to do most all of my programming in assembly language. 15:39:13 nasm consumed a lot 15:39:48 Nasm allowed me to make my own output file formats, which is why I used it so long ago. 15:40:08 It's really quite easy to write an object file back-end for it. 15:40:35 written in? 15:40:39 C 15:40:47 ic 15:41:14 But if you really wanted to write it in assembly, there's no reason why not. 15:41:32 The back-end is just a bunch of call-backs that the NASM engine invokes when it has data to output into the file. 15:41:44 Just as long as you conform to the C calling conventions for your routines, it would work fine. 15:43:04 OH NEAT! I already have a default font file from my Commodore 64 Forth that I was trying to write one day. 15:43:19 Bwahahah! I'll just use that in FS/Forth. :) 15:43:25 * kc5tja totally forgot I had that. 16:25:42 kc5tja: thx for the chat 16:25:49 afk 16:26:05 np 17:19:25 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ip-207-198-223-128.nyc.ny.fcc.net) joined #forth 17:19:26 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 17:19:29 hiya all 17:19:45 re TheBlueWizard 17:19:52 hiya kc5tja 17:20:13 how's life? mine's eye-tiring boring :/ 17:20:47 Mine is being spent figuring out how I'm going to pay next month's rent. 17:22:32 ouch...don't know what to say 17:23:10 "Good luck" would somehow be appropriate. :) 17:24:04 hehe...though it sounds a bit ghoulish :) 17:24:13 * kc5tja nods 17:24:39 I'm working hard to get some cooperative advertising done and out soon, so that I can start making ends meet quickly. 17:24:43 a startup requires about 6 months to build up cash flow... 17:24:53 * TheBlueWizard nods 17:25:15 plus doing some odd jobs to make ends meet 17:25:29 I'm not sure that I agree with that, off the cuff. 17:25:49 I think it is possible to get a minimal business going quicker than that. It's just a matter of finding the right channels. 17:26:04 So far, I'm getting my company known using some very low cost advertising means. 17:26:22 hmm..."the Net way" :) 17:26:23 My website actually has a few hits on it, from people I certainly don't know. :) 17:26:32 cool 17:26:35 The Net Way still requires traditional advertising. 17:26:46 People aren't going to automagically know you have a website without it. 17:26:47 true 17:27:26 But I just worked up some business cards, and I'll be working on some print ad copy for posting in my Aikido dojo and at my car insurance agent's office. 17:27:33 though there are some cases where just setting up a website send the business by a large margin 17:28:05 Except for porno sites, I cannot determine a single legitimate business venture where the mere presence of a site guarantees customers. 17:30:45 au contraire, a few years ago I read some article about a small business specializing in selling some food (coffee stuff, I think), which employs maybe 10 people. After putting up its website, it saw the business rising by 200% or more, in fact it was selling to oversea, so it had to expand...interesting read 17:32:40 A fluke at best. 17:32:43 Two things: 17:32:50 1) I don't sell stuff except for my time. 17:33:03 Products are easy to sell over the web, because you can ship them anywhere, anytime. 17:33:19 2) That kind of success is very, very rare, statistically. 17:33:40 There are hundreds of thousands of small business sites on the net, and very few ever grow to such proportions as to require expansion in a short time frame, if ever. 17:34:36 --- quit: mur ("MURR! save the http://rainforest.care2.com/") 17:34:38 that would likely be true...but it doesn't mean it has no chance of chance...a difference there 17:35:13 I didn't say anything about it having no chance of a chance. 17:35:42 I said it didn't guarantee any firm sales. That implies a chance happening, but unlikely. 17:37:21 For example, despite telling quite a few people about my site, and distributing business cards, and whatnot, I have yet to receive even one sales or services inquiry on my company e-mail account (or, hell, any of my e-mail accounts). 17:37:50 Granted, a week or so isn't much time for people to make such decisions, but that just goes to show you how relatively ineffectual such a thing can be. :) 17:38:07 well, you wrote "...cannt determine a single legitimate business venture...guarantees customers"...that sounds awfully close to having no chance 17:38:32 Indeed, the only reason I even have a website is (a) I offer website services, and (b) it seems to be automatically "implied" that all businesses in my area have a website. It's a marketing necessity now-a-days. 17:38:55 It'd help if you left in the rest of the context. 17:39:21 I can't determine a single legitimate business venture where the presence of a website guarantees customer influx. 17:39:29 And I stand by that assessment. 17:39:46 ok 17:40:06 At best, a website is an advertisement. 17:40:16 Well, maybe not "at best," but you know what I mean. 17:40:21 Darn close. :) 17:41:08 heh 17:41:21 it is more a service than advertisement, really 17:41:36 Well, that depends on what you have on it. 17:41:49 A company like mine can't offer any services through the web. 17:42:10 I'm a consultant -- my job is to consult with people. Me. If my website does my consulting for me, then I screw myself out of income. 17:43:51 I use the word "service" in an expansive sense...like: here's the email address, here is the phone number, here's what we do, here's the success story (to illustrate the idea of how your company can apply our experience and service), and so on 17:44:14 See, I consider that an advertisement. 17:44:24 It's basically a solicitation for business. 17:44:58 ok 17:45:02 A "service," to me, is when I go to the website, and I actually receive a direct benefit from going to the site. E.g., an FAQ containing a set of questions pertaining to floppy disk malfunctions, etc. 17:45:38 Q. My disk won't go in the drive. Why not? 17:45:48 brb...making a sandwich 17:46:07 A. Try ejecting the disk that's already in the drive first, then try again. Failing that, insert the disk with the metal door side first. 17:46:22 Q. My disk doesn't have a metal door. What do I do? 17:46:40 A. Use it as a coaster. The disk is likely to be damaged. If it even IS a disk, that is. :D 17:53:25 back 17:54:38 hmm...and if the guy complains about "leaky" floppy disk cum coaster, I'll tell him to build a rail gun and fire it at Darl McBride behind a knolly hill ;) 17:56:25 Heheh 17:56:48 * kc5tja just ordered some stuff for next-day air. Man, I sure hope I get it. Wedding present. 17:57:00 * kc5tja really couldn't afford it either. :( 17:57:00 * TheBlueWizard so hates this SCO stuff 17:57:15 ouch again 17:57:24 $86 or so investment. 17:57:28 Well, "gift." 17:57:38 Lord knows, I'll never see a return on said investment. :D 17:57:38 * TheBlueWizard nods 17:59:12 Why are there so many churches that claim, quite loudly, to be the !!FIRST!!! United Methodist Church!!!!!!! ? 18:00:32 lol....cultural thing, I guess...I don't try to fathom the logic behind church naming (at least beyond the obvious denominational naming) 18:00:32 Maybe I should get ordained as a minister, and create the SECOND!!! Church of Christ!! #2 and PROUD OF IT! 18:01:48 * kc5tja vegges out to some King Crimson 18:02:49 brb 18:03:47 --- join: suprdupr (CrowKilr@HSE-Windsor-ppp251680.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 18:03:53 hi 18:05:28 re 18:05:47 i updated my project's documentation at http://board.flatassembler.net/viewforum.php?f=11 18:06:03 i came with a byteoffset 18:06:10 word for short jumps 18:06:28 * kc5tja nods 18:06:29 The project is slowly starting to take shape 18:06:39 * kc5tja is simmering on the back burner at the moment. 18:07:02 * kc5tja just found the font file I used to make a quick and dirty character set for the C64 version of FS/Forth. 18:07:12 (The Forth is unfinished, but the character set is complete) 18:07:21 I'll use that character set in my FS/Forth for LInux. 18:08:01 back 18:08:57 * kc5tja thinks it'll be interesting to see a 128x96 text display in FS/Forth. :) 18:10:27 yep! 18:10:38 i also thought of something 18:11:00 branch prediction on x86 think forward are likely not taken 18:11:04 and reverse likely taken 18:11:19 so in my two jumps optimizations tests 18:11:28 x86 uses a branch target buffer cache for branches too. 18:12:01 so that mean this policy is good before it enter the cahe only or always? 18:12:44 because i do first a forward going jz to skip the conditional code and at the actual opcode comparaision i do a backward jnz 18:12:46 I think only before it enters the cache. 18:13:07 I mean, it is a good idea to assume that forward branches are rarely taken, and backward branches are usually taken. 18:13:12 That's basic RISC philosophy. 18:13:17 k so thats not a soo big deal ;p 18:13:20 Shouldn't. 18:13:28 But I personally arrange my branches that way too. 18:14:02 This is why I wrote that small diatribe about Chuck advocating not using branches, and I contested that with some evidence to suggest that, in about 50% of the cases, it's faster to use branches than not. 18:14:22