00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.07.18 00:09:19 hey 00:09:25 hi 00:22:32 a7r: hey 00:24:31 how's your ipaq endeavour? 00:29:26 thought so: those several 486 specs are not equal 00:30:13 "It's surprising that different Intel manuals seem to contradict each other. 00:30:13 " 00:30:56 RO|: I haven't hacked on it recently, but it's still at the back of my mind. 00:31:06 from bochs dev ml, about 486 specs 00:32:28 a7r: same here.. 00:36:28 even don't have an ipaq yet.. 02:18:58 * RO| is looking for specs about his old notebooks's cpu: 486dx2 02:19:11 if you have any (dl-)pointers (for/)about following docs, PLEASE tell me: 02:19:35 01);486 processor family;242202-002;1994;242202.pdf 02:19:36 02);486 processor and related products;241731-002;1995;241731.pdf 02:19:36 03);486 processor hardware reference manual;240552-001;1990;240552.pdf 02:19:36 04);486 processor programmer's reference manual;240486-003;1995;240486.pdf 02:19:36 05);486 DX processor databook;240440-004;1991;240440.pdf 02:19:36 06);486 DX processor CPU cache module;241083-001;1991;241083.pdf 02:19:38 07);486 DX processor CPU cache chipset;241084-001;1991;241084.pdf 02:19:40 08);486 DX2 processor databook;241245-004;1994;241245.pdf 02:19:42 09);486 DX2 processor cache and memory design considerations;241261-004;1992;241261.pdf 02:19:44 10);486 DX2 smart die processor;271293-002;12/94;271293.pdf 02:19:46 11);486 DX2 embedded processor;272770-002;12/97;272770.pdf 02:19:48 12);OverDrive processors (for the 80486);290436-006;2/95;290436.pdf 02:19:50 13);486 processor family and byte-wide smart voltage flash file memory family;297805-001;10/96;297805.pdf 02:19:54 thanks! 02:21:07 RO| ; it's easy to find at Intel ! 02:21:29 then i was in need of Celeron pinout, i found it in 5 minutes 02:22:07 (we were soldering up slot1 adaptors to run Coppermine on ones designed 4 Mendocino only ) 02:23:05 Serg_Penguin: thought so too. for cpu's still on sale, probably yes... 02:23:39 for this old one, nope 02:24:17 common reply: buy a new one.. cheers :-( 02:25:08 for what purpose you need docs ? 02:25:14 on-knee repair ? 02:25:44 low level coding 02:26:09 cross compiling, tuned 02:26:35 i wonder why other people code w/o docs ;) 02:26:57 a day ago, you were saying you are a total beginner 02:27:03 and learning, after all 02:27:07 yes 02:27:12 i,m not so total one, but don't dig so deep 02:27:56 after all, you can use 486 for web/mail/text only 02:28:10 and run heavy tasks on someone's p4 ;)) 02:28:51 i can do cad eg. on 486dx2 too :-) 02:29:06 really. 02:29:15 sure, just find old versions of CAD soft 02:29:20 or write yours 02:29:28 :-) 02:29:47 if you find, gimme a slice ;)) 02:30:09 i have several poor artists w/ p130-like boxes 02:30:38 there are few things i need and can't do on that 10 year horse ;-) 02:30:56 if Moore wrote CPU-design soft in <100k, why you can't ? 02:31:41 ok. if i find something, i will offer it to you ;-) 02:32:21 key to writing efficient proggies is good concept design, not heavy tinkering w/ command timings, IMHO 02:32:42 leave it to 13-years demoscene dudes ;)) 02:34:14 for real fast prg's topology knowledge IS necessary 02:34:53 topology ???? how the hell knowing where on chip XOR is helps to speed up proggie ???? 02:35:21 it's also about learning from the bare bone. and nothing else. 02:35:55 Serg_Penguin: buzzword micro-opcodes 02:36:18 better read Knuth and other algorithm archmages 02:36:56 that's *also* a good idea :-) 02:37:03 and write portable and grok-at-glance'able soft 02:37:07 despite it will be 10% slower 02:37:09 ;) 02:37:21 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:39:23 have you read articles on 'thinkful programming' ? 02:40:08 Serg_Penguin: on the other side, the better you know the physics of the ship you're sailing in, the better you can a)handle it and b)build your own ;-) 02:41:15 but CPU's are not ships ;) 02:41:41 i bet if I, not to say you, design a CPU, it will be utter crap 02:41:56 learning the basics is for me learning the roots, not the surface 02:42:05 good ! 02:42:45 but for me, 'roots' are one or two abstraction levels higher 02:43:20 sometime i tend to think similar 02:44:12 for me, atoms of computing are instructions, syscalls etc.. 02:44:27 not the cache or bus 02:45:07 s/sometime/sometimes/ 02:45:53 'roots' are core abstractions, details of just one CPU family are leafs, as well as Windoze buttons 02:46:15 micro-opcodes are eg. important for the (upcoming?) forthcpu 02:47:00 i bet Forth CPU will be made of PLL in PPGA casing 02:47:42 that doesn't change the fact, or? 02:47:52 you can make it today - modern PLL's take it's 'wiring' from FLASHROM and can't be damaged by wrong wiring 02:47:57 --- quit: Klaw (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02:49:29 reprogrammed at every pover-up 02:50:52 one who wants Forth CPU need NO fab, only 80-s micro like board and flash programmer 02:51:43 Moore squeezed one of his CPU's in 4k valves 02:51:55 depends on the dimension of workload, no? 02:52:15 sure, you won't beat p4 by PLL cpu 02:52:30 for currently existing forth prg's, probably yes 02:52:49 but you can beat Speccy, if you write good OS 4 it ;)) 02:53:21 w/ knee-made board, few MHz is a limit 02:56:04 i really want to take that old 486 lap as forth dev box and see what i can get out of it as the absolute maximum 02:56:33 so what tasks you wanna do ? 02:59:11 cad, maths, text, analysis 02:59:21 etc 03:00:29 though the serial port gives a network limit, dynpage serving maximum i would like to know 03:02:03 so what you wanna construct on CAD ? 03:03:35 general. plain house construction as a beginning 03:04:06 heh.. 03:04:40 would you TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for correctness of, say, structural strength calculations ?? 03:05:12 me - NEVER ! 03:05:53 what is "structural strength calculations" in what context? 03:07:17 would house stand under all loads or crash under it's own weight 03:08:57 would earth hold it or displace under it's weight 03:09:52 ic. w/ enough experience w/ the concerned materials, no problem 03:10:23 should apply for software developers as well! 03:10:30 lol 03:11:21 it is really appliED to developers of really mission-critical soft 03:11:59 * Serg_Penguin won't risk buying a house designed by amateur CAD 03:13:23 interesting phenomen 03:14:19 how much prg'ers are educated for mission-critical quality? 03:15:48 they are not specially educated in special university ;) 03:16:13 just selected from 'normal' by robustness of their produkts 03:17:02 RU is very not serious about this 03:17:53 once i searched for job, and some stupids nearly hired me as a programmer for medical devices 03:18:04 informatics faculty eg., how much output is mission-critical quality capability? 03:18:04 i refrained because of responsibility 03:18:36 but other fool who never ever heard this word, would agree 03:19:06 and some day someone will die of wrong diagnosis or delay w/ diagnosis... 03:19:51 they were ready to hire complete fool for mission critical prog'er job - i was honestly claiming my modest experience... 03:20:15 side note, 'cause i know you like learning ;-) very not serious (ru-engl.) == not at all serious (engl.) 03:21:00 here in RU, folks think 'the cheaper - the better' ;(( 03:21:02 lol 03:22:27 Serg_Penguin: the russian eleet thinks so ( for their servants, at least ;-) 03:23:47 RU is throat-deep in schit ;(( 03:24:21 inner schit, instead of inner light ;( 03:25:04 * RO| looks at the west and see's even worse 03:26:00 to be .... is different than to be in .... 03:30:26 all nations in RU are losers knocked out to cold wasteland by ones who had stronger will and brighter wit thousands years ago 03:30:32 so it has no hope 03:31:46 crime is done on chechenians eg.? 03:32:05 you mean that? 03:32:17 no, no 03:32:56 i mean all folks in RU are scrap of natural selection since humankind early times 03:33:18 then no crime is done on chechenians? 03:33:29 just as an example.. 03:33:32 crime is done by both side 03:33:42 true 03:33:55 who started? 03:34:16 or, who is the cause? 03:34:43 it's lost in time 03:35:06 RU had wars w/ southern nomads even be4 written history 03:35:24 the chechenian culture is over 3k years old 03:35:36 they never had a king 03:35:53 i hardly name it 'culture' 03:36:06 'culture' is something above barbarism 03:36:14 yes 03:36:36 cult - ur 03:37:13 Ancient Roman or American may be said culture 03:37:19 RU - ath the margin 03:37:34 chechen - below all margins sure 03:38:45 barbaric culture exists, so let's say chaotic or something like that 03:39:18 do you know chechenian history? 03:45:05 no 03:45:18 from what source you learned about it ? 03:45:51 in ex-USSR, there are mega heavy propaganda aberrations on this topic 03:46:33 pity, it's so much different from what the official ru tells 03:47:27 but it's of course the same story in US, DE, FR, etcpp 03:48:13 neverending gotcha's, if you got the nerves for it 03:50:00 src's: private initiatives mostly, but also some universiterian 03:51:46 i did not invest much time, only what i needed to know. most important, credibility 03:54:31 the local, if not say pocket, nation in propaganda is greater than Roman Empire by it's role in world progress 03:54:47 Ukraine is hot example 03:57:45 the most stunning thing is, they never had a king, and still preserved their culture the last 3k years. this is something very rare. and they never fought for expansion, defense only, ever. 03:58:23 come to moscow, you'll see them fighting for expansion in gang wars 03:58:33 i do not mean the american type of defense btw ;-) 03:58:57 which is ad absurdum 04:00:16 in moscow there are rare examples of nomad culture ;-) 04:01:05 bet they lost their 'true' culture after some time there 04:01:22 as in any modern babel 04:01:44 nomad = (ab)use heavily, to total destruction, and move away 04:02:01 still = use carefully, so it serves endlessly 04:02:22 all the life on earth is 1st, but we have no place to go away ;(( 04:02:58 i mean, all human life 04:03:04 you have a strange definition of "nomad" 04:03:17 it is what it is 04:03:49 have you ever lived amongst nomad for a longer (non-touristic) time? 04:03:55 no 04:04:01 but let me say 04:04:29 nomads live by cattle, stills live by earth and bread growing on it 04:04:48 stills use earth carefully so it serves long time 04:05:10 if you had, it would be different 04:05:31 nomads let their cattle stomp out all wegetation to desert, and go off to seize another, fresh land 04:06:04 this is why they ar in endless war w/ still peasants 04:06:21 no 04:06:39 nonono 04:08:04 they come w/ their horses/camels/cows to eat and stomp the ecosystem created by still peasants 04:08:28 stills create, nomads destroy 04:09:27 typical nomads, jews, are now at steer-wheel in world economy, it's why we are stomping out our Earth w/ no chance to find a fresh one ;(( 04:10:00 i've been living in the african desert amongst nomads for quite a while (1y), while there are 2 clans which are aggressive, there are 100 clans peaceful. do you want to say that the beduins are the cause of the sahara desert? 04:11:00 they live in places, normal ppl would not be able to survive in 04:12:06 yes, they move in the desert, but not to steal or destroy 04:12:19 normal people seized good places and knocked dropouts to desert or northern forest 04:12:31 btw, RU are forest nomads 04:12:50 they started from burning down a pice of forest 04:13:57 neither the beduins i know, nor the chechenians are destructive or aggresive from their culture 04:14:12 growing their bread 2 or 3 seasons on earth fertilized by dead trees 04:14:32 and then earth fatigue, burn another piece of forest... 04:15:03 of course, i was not amongst the famous tuareg, just *heard* about them 04:16:13 all nomads are by default dropouts knocked from good earth by better nations 04:16:40 would they be better, they would knock someone from good earth and take their place 04:17:20 the only difference - RU were knocked to cold forest, beduins - to hot desert 04:17:46 what in hell is your definition of "better" ??? 04:18:06 stronger and wiser, more creative, more social 04:18:19 better fit, in Darwin terms 04:22:05 darwin's worldview is quite a(nti)social. he thinks, what he doesn't see, cannot exist. just like a blind man, declaring all ppl talking about the existance of colour as liars or incompetent. 04:23:04 so what he doesn't see what you see ? 04:26:23 he sees an evolution going from downside up, while spiritual experience knows, when something goes from down to up, there must also be something coming from upside down. 04:33:55 also his example of natural selection and fight is not valid everywhere and anytime. in some cases it is, whereas in all other it isn't. he does the mistake projecting a specific configuration into a general, abstract, evervalid rule 04:35:26 example please ? 04:38:44 the next relative to the human in the animal world is the ape, also known for the most intelligent animal. at the same time his class is the most social, nonbrutal, nonaggresive type of animal. his superiority over all other animals is his intelligence parallel w/ his sociality/peacefullness 04:39:33 or in other words: only the stupid wish/want any war at all 04:41:53 or: real intelligent productive selection is not based on fight and brutality but instead on morality/sociality 04:42:46 or: people you can trust earn/deserve much more worth/money/etc 04:43:40 they are creating values missing in the 'lower' animal world 04:50:27 it's all OK but it doesn't break Darwin theory 04:57:55 Romans, Germany, USA are 'creating missing values...' better and they rock and better fit... 04:58:17 tribal folks do it worse and they suck and worse fit ;) 05:25:07 as i showed, darwin's theory is wrong as a generalization of specific cases (those he mentions). showing *major* examples against, invalids a general theoretical rule over those (denyied, overseen, ..) facts. 05:28:05 --- join: RO|_ (~RO|@pD9E59422.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 05:28:05 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:28:35 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 05:33:05 and about romans, .de, .us, in terms of evolution this "superiority" looks like a fever period called caesar-madness. this phenomen is also expressed as the story of 'the fallen angel' 05:34:56 fallen angel's are masters in pretending virtues to use the fooled for their own, opposite intentions. like cancer eg. 05:36:33 --- quit: RO| (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:46:11 because a human being has the ability to become a fallen angel(out of his freedom of decision) and there lots of examples where this happened, you wouldn't declare humanity as evil, would you? only one true example against is necessary to prove 'inborn evilness' wrong. 05:51:30 same applies to nomadic tribes. 05:51:30 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:38:07 i think darwinism is better applied to evolution :P thats why we have terms like ____ darwinism... 06:56:06 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 06:57:36 ianni: ic. but still there it is partially wrong and misleading in most cases, mass-wise 06:58:23 ianni: do you know the goethe/newton discourse? 07:00:17 offtop: does one know any icq client more stable than ICQ itself ? 07:00:25 my one died horrible death 07:01:42 icq, never used :-) 07:08:01 --- join: draq (ident@203-219-179-14-nsw.tpgi.com.au) joined #forth 07:14:16 --- nick: RO|_ -> rO| 07:20:04 RO: nope 07:24:18 for understanding european history in depth, it's probably a must 07:28:16 but i can understand if it's not well known in usuk countries. same as krupp's italy stories are almost not known in .de 07:31:15 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:49:00 * ianni is unfamiliar with both 07:49:02 (and much) 07:49:10 I was taught history here in America... 07:49:18 the textbooks SUCKED 07:51:12 americans only seem to know about america 07:51:54 ...and for some reason they think they invented apple pie.................? 07:52:05 draq: the education system is poor 07:52:10 it's very myopic 07:52:17 we are taught world history, but from an american standpoint. 07:52:27 everyone here thinks the USA won the world wars 07:52:35 etc 07:53:41 I did have a good history class my last year of high school though 07:53:58 what was good about it 07:54:29 it was college level, and it was very philosophical, instead of memorizing chapters in a book 07:54:53 iwe'd have discourse 07:55:18 history should be like that.. quantifying the past and assessing it.. not memorizing names & dates.. thats what the books are for 07:56:50 I was lucky the head of history at my high school could not remember dates so she didnt expect anyone else to 08:04:52 right on 08:05:06 well i had a couple other decent history classes that centered around concepts and essaywriting 08:05:28 but like, the way the educational textbooks and the mone dictate what is taught is frightening 08:05:32 mone=money 08:42:27 http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20030717.html 08:42:39 money and lack of value 09:04:38 hey, i deny all the history at all! 09:05:17 it has been rewritten too many times by too many fuhrers, it's lie at all 09:05:38 and it sucks all the way from throat to a$$hole 09:12:59 --- quit: draq (Remote closed the connection) 09:18:44 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 09:27:43 zzzzzzzzzz 10:08:39 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 10:10:07 Serg_Penguin, Herkamire.. hello :) 10:10:21 * Robert just returned from the shop.. that's why I was away, serg 10:13:46 hi Robert :) 10:14:21 It's hot over here. :( 10:14:44 Like 32C... not often it's above 30. 10:15:49 * Herkamire will stay inside mostly 10:16:08 It's even hotter inside. 10:16:23 * Herkamire got AC a couple weeks ago :) 10:24:28 --- join: twiddleBits (~rafe@www.scinq.org) joined #forth 10:26:29 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:33:57 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-189-64.phnet.fi) joined #forth 10:40:55 --- part: twiddleBits left #forth 10:43:54 --- quit: rO| (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:44:12 --- join: rO| (~RO|@pD9E59422.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:57:00 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:57:01 --- quit: whee (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 10:57:25 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 10:57:25 --- join: whee (bph8876@grace.isc.rit.edu) joined #forth 11:12:38 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 11:12:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 11:23:07 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 11:23:16 re a7r 11:23:42 sup kc5tja? 11:23:56 Nothing much. Have lots of errands to run later today. 11:24:02 werd. 11:24:04 I should be doing them now, but it still feels like morning. 11:24:27 It's dark and wet outside. :/ It'll probably be raining all day. >:/ 11:25:21 Also, been doing some thinking about FS/Forth. If I'm going to make a quick layout program in it for my business applications, I'm probably going to want to use an outline font of some kind. 11:26:15 Looking up the TrueType specifications, it seems pretty easy and simple at first, but the Microsoft file format documentation lacks important details. Like, is each end-point part of a line segment or part of a bezier curve? They just don't say. 11:26:32 I have not yet found any other documentation to help either. 11:26:37 (including the freetype website) 11:33:52 kc5tja: is the M$ format cab or some such? 11:34:25 or is .cab an archive like zip? 11:34:42 fuck. 11:38:22 Herkamire: No. 11:38:29 .cab is an archive similar to ZIP. 11:38:36 But TrueType fonts are not stored in .cab files. 11:39:36 But when opening a truetype font, I'm going to have to convert the vector data contained in it into an intermediate representation. There is a LOT of data that is "free floating" and requires interpretation by the font loader in a very sequential manner. It's not optimized for random access at all. 11:40:03 It helps compress the font files (and no doubt, TTF files are pretty small for what they contain), but at the expense of ease of random access. 11:40:18 But as long as I can convert TTF to my own format, for example, I'm a happy camper. 11:43:05 YAY! I discovered the information I needed. 11:43:27 It was stuffed away in an appendix, describing the older TrueType format (of which OpenType is an evolution of). 11:45:23 You generally do not want to render glyphs right out of the font file. A font cache really pays off. 11:45:36 TreyB: I have to have some way to render them into the cache, no? 11:46:03 Plus I want to be able to apply transforms on the font contents. 11:46:12 Sure, but you don't care so much about hoop-jumping to render it the first time. 11:46:26 I figure, if a transform is not in effect, a cache can be used to speed up display; if a transform is used, then I can sustain the performance hit. 11:46:42 We cache transformed bitmaps. 11:47:30 Most of my transforms are going to be used only once anyway -- no need for caching if I'm only going to use a transformation matrix just once. 11:48:39 That all depends on how you use use it. You'll know your general usage patterns better than I. 11:49:23 * kc5tja nods 11:49:45 This is pretty much for a general purpose, single-page layout program I want to write. 11:51:27 TreyB: BTW, you mentioned "we" above -- who woud "we" be? :) 11:51:43 Ah. I wrote the font cache for PalmOS 6. The device parameters give me a fairly different set of characteristics. 11:52:05 Note that you can't get PalmOS 6 yet :-) 11:54:16 I work for PalmSource (the software part of Palm). 11:54:27 TreyB: That's OK, I still use a Dragonball-equipped Clie. 11:54:31 Damn sweet system though. 11:54:39 * kc5tja is glad PalmOS is finally advancing. 11:56:30 You wouldn't recognize the guts. A real kernel with memory protection, and a stripped down version of OpenGL as the rendering model. 11:56:53 holy moly 11:57:39 Hey, this is cool -- TTF supports grid hinting using a stack-based virtual machine, and each glyph's hinting code is a program that runs in that virtual machine. :D 11:58:01 TreyB: Pity they're using OpenGL as the model. It's nice for 3D work, but I really question its value for 2D work. 11:58:10 Yep, and falls afoul of a one or more Apple patents. 11:58:31 TreyB: Apple doesn't need to know my intentions. 11:59:57 kc5tja: All of the future graphics hardware will revolve around 3D. Just set Z=0 and keep drawing. 12:02:11 so much for simple computers 12:02:29 I'm going to have to build my own some day. 12:03:06 No kidding. 12:04:00 I've been wanting to build my own for some time, built around the 65816 CPU. 12:04:09 I figure 10MHz ought to be plenty fast enough for my needs. 12:04:40 I haven't seen anything even vaguely like what I want on the market 12:05:54 I want 5-10MB flash, 1MB RAM. 10MHz should be plenty. some simple processor. like the old dragonballs or something. I want the framebuffer to be memory mapped. 12:06:12 I want it to be rugged and waterproof 12:06:26 I want to be able to drop it on the sidewalk and have it be fine. 12:07:02 Herk: GBA? 12:07:24 I want it to strap to my hand (I was thinking of chopping the finders off a glove and gluing or velcroing the device to the palm) 12:07:46 I want a button under each finger and three for the thumb and have a chorded keyboard for all input 12:07:56 (or software can use the buttons directly 12:09:31 You know, I was actually thinking of a really dirt-cheap way to support a chorded keyboard the other day while fiddling with my guitar, and then it occured to me that frets might be an easy solution. 12:10:01 (what better way to think of chording than to use a chorded instrument!) 12:10:50 Custom-made membrane switches are a possibility too -- but I wonder how long they'll last. I was thinking of a membrane-like keyboard, but using guitar wire instead of membranes. 12:11:06 Maybe it's too off-the-wall, though. 12:11:35 You may find that it doesn't work so well for digital input. 12:12:24 ?? I'm not thinking of plucking the wires. 12:12:32 As an analog device, you have quite a bit of slop in where you can put your fingers. 12:12:35 The keyboard still consists of 7 or 8 discrete switches. 12:13:04 * TreyB probably imagined something completely unlike what kc5tja had in mind :-) 12:13:09 I think so. :) 12:13:15 I'd have to draw it, it seems. 12:13:37 And if it requires drawing it, never mind, because i have no intentions of loading GIMP at the moment. 12:13:41 :) 12:13:44 It's not that important. :D 12:16:16 kc5: frets would work very nicely (multiple values per finger, too) 12:16:28 kc5: assuming your fingers can handle it 12:16:58 I guess with a glove, it would be quite ok 12:17:50 --- join: Fractal (bron@i.either.got.mad.cow.from.alberta.beef.or.strongLSD.com) joined #forth 12:18:36 guitar takes a long time, and chords are hard 12:19:04 I wrote a little program for the linux terminal in raw mode that used 7 keys on the keyboard as a chorded keyboard. 12:19:07 Everyone here seems to be completely missing my point. 12:19:16 it didn't take me that long to get faster than one key/seccond 12:19:40 I type a heck of a lot faster than one key per second. :D 12:19:46 me too 12:20:01 I think I do about three per second or so. 12:20:10 I don't think I go much/any faster than that scribling with a stylis on palm though 12:20:19 and I've had way more practice with the stylus 12:20:34 Heh :) 12:21:03 I think with practice using a chorded keyboard would get up to 4 keys per seccond 12:21:26 kc5tja: how fast do you type? 12:21:32 I'm something like 60 wpm 12:21:49 what's the average word length? 4? 12:21:55 5? 12:22:14 Leisurely, I'm about 60 wpm. Under duress, I have been known to approach 100wpm. 12:22:29 The faster I type, the less I look at the screen though. :) 12:23:28 hmm, maybe chorded input tops out at 2 or 3 chars/seccond 12:23:45 too bad I'm too lazy to do research 12:23:55 Hehe :) 12:24:19 Well, chorded is the way I'd go if I were to build a fully-custom computer. Either that, or implement a PS/2 port of some kind. Maybe both. 12:24:38 I want it to be self contained 12:24:53 errr, I mean I want it to fit in my pocket 12:25:33 guitar strings with frets as contacts and a thumb switch for latching the next 4 bits. hmz 12:25:47 * kc5tja really doesn't care much about small size. I mean, it's nice, but low noise and other user conveniences are more important to me. 12:26:08 what do you mean low noise? 12:26:18 Herkamire: Good question, because there are two answers. 12:26:20 clickitycrunchityclick 12:26:27 Herkamire: First, NO FANS. Second, NO RF HASH. 12:26:44 kc5: oh, we are talking about the computer? 12:26:45 As a ham radio operator, I'm infuriated with how badly my computer adversely affects my ability to receive weak signals. 12:26:51 * XeF4 still stuck in keyboard land 12:27:06 yeah. 12:27:13 I think it would be easy to make it quiet 12:27:15 XeF4: Heheh :) Yeah. And the guitar-type keyboard would be nice and quiet too, creating just enough noise to let you know you chorded. :) 12:27:25 keyboards purposely make clicking sounds right? 12:27:45 Herkamire: Sometimes. The clicky-keyboards that IBM used to make did. 12:28:08 There are super quiet keyboards too, but those tend to feel like you're typing on shitaki mushrooms. 12:28:15 I do like how you can feel when keyboards 'click'. 12:28:16 also the DEC keyboards and some others that were basically silent but had a speaker to play clicking sounds =) 12:28:28 XeF4: Yes, those were weird. :D 12:28:42 * kc5tja forgot about those. 12:28:47 I don't want auditory feed back about when I pushed a key, I want tactile feedback 12:29:27 * kc5tja nods 12:29:29 timing probably won't be such an issue with chorded keyboard because it doesn't matter what order you press the keys 12:29:38 but with normal keyboards it makes a whole lot of difference 12:29:42 That's why I was thinking about using guitar strings and frets instead of membrane switches. 12:30:10 The other reason for using them, I can *bang* on them and it won't hurt the keyboard. Membranes, you have to be careful with, else you'll crack the PC board they're on. 12:31:15 kc5: what about normal pushbutton switches? 12:32:00 hmmmm this just occured to me: if I have the thing fascened to a glove, I probaly don't have to worry about it breaking if I drop it.. 12:32:29 I do want it to be very strong though. 12:32:29 I really don't like them. While they can be used, many have such hard springs in them that it takes too much effort to push. 12:33:00 depends on the switch 12:33:30 It's hard to find a push-button that is "just right." 12:33:43 You also don't want it too soft, or else the slightest finger movement can inadvertently actuate the switch. :) 12:34:09 kc5: that's why I want a thumb switch for latch 12:34:27 so the chord is only read when the thumb changes position 12:35:25 * kc5tja nods 12:35:31 I want to be able to use the finger buttons without hitting a thumb button 12:36:21 in my linux chorded keyboard experiment I considered it a key when I get the first keyup 12:36:42 * kc5tja nods -- that seems like a good idea. 12:37:30 Herk: and started reading when you got the next keydown? I want to use the keyboard without having to move all 5 fingers every time 12:38:02 Herk: that way keys that are usually used in sequence can have similar bit patterns 12:38:55 XeF4: I think I cleared my cache of what keys were down when I got a keyup. 12:39:13 Herk: same effect. 12:39:41 it's considered a keypress the first time it recieves a keyup after recieving at least one keydown 12:40:01 to use it you never held any keys down for multiple chars. 12:40:19 I considered making it so you could, but I decided not to. 12:40:22 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.196) joined #forth 12:40:33 Good evening! 12:40:39 I think it will be easier to have it become habitual and fast if you do the same action for a char no matter what. 12:40:55 Something to consider is supporting "tapping", in the guitar sense too. 12:41:10 Beyond just a chord, you can assign multiple meanings to the same chord depending on which keys you press, in which order. 12:41:29 kc, That's not chord. 12:41:39 For example, if you press three buttons, A B C, you can have up to 6 different meanings for that one chord, depending on how you handle the key-up events. 12:41:51 ASau: Sorry, but it is. 12:42:03 Arpeggio. 12:42:19 Arpeggio is what you get when you press A, release A, press B, release B, press C, release C. 12:42:28 kc5: and if you just release your grip quickly so the keyup order is fairly random? 12:42:29 It's the notes of a chord played in sequence. 12:42:30 kc5tja: I thought about having order matter. you could certainly get more chars from the same keys 12:42:57 XeF4: Hmm...that's a good point. I didn't think about that. 12:43:20 you could map sequences of keydown and keyups to chars 12:43:20 As long as I can recall, it's called arpeggiato. 12:43:34 this would certainly make the least amount of keypresses 12:44:07 or make each fingerswitch multiposition 12:44:18 Hm. You mean, that M-C-x is not C-M-x, don't you? 12:44:20 ASau: An arpeggio is just playing the notes of a chord in sequence. I'm not talking about pressing each note in sequence. 12:44:41 (shamelessly stolen from CF's keymap) 12:45:43 kc: I know what arpeggio is. Sorry, I play accordeon. I'm familiar with it. 12:45:45 XeF4: That's actually what I was thinking with my fretboard keyboard. :) Three or four rows, four columns (each column for a finger). Copper traces for the columns, and guitar strings for the rows. 12:45:52 ASau: I play guitar. 12:46:46 I also play guitar a little. 12:46:49 XeF4: And frets in between each column/finger position, of course. 12:47:19 kc5: is it easy to make your fingers go to arbitrary row combinations? 12:48:53 XeF4: Arbitrary row combinations? Take a guitar, sit it on your lap like a steel slide guitar, and place your left or right hand (doesn't matter) in front of the fretboard. That's the arrangement I'm thinking of. 12:49:33 aha! 12:49:33 Let each finger occupy one fret on the board. 12:49:59 So it's possible to get multiple-row capability from each finger, but it's probably not recommended for quick entry. :D 12:51:20 It's used for 7 strings guitar than for 6 strings one. 12:51:29 if you had just 4 keys and you made the order of key down events and keyup events matter, my estimate is that that would give you thousands of different combinations. (wich each key pressed and released once as part of the combo) 12:52:06 this would have an ugly learning curve, but you can have much more data, you could use the thumb too and have a combination for each word in your language. 12:52:45 ASau: Hey, I use multi-row fretting on my 6-string all the time. 12:52:57 I hate it when some music book says, "Don't do this, it's not proper." 12:53:05 Bull shit. It's MY guitar, and MY sound I'm making. :) 12:53:08 Herk: combination for each word in your language doesn't really work if your language is flexible 12:53:32 Herk: as it would restrict one to writing in the official literary languag 12:53:33 e 12:54:23 more often 12:54:23 But what for do you need to press non-control keys simultaneously? 12:54:23 Do you want to use keyboard as C.M.? 12:54:34 XeF4: yeah I know. not usefull, to use that many keys 12:54:47 if you make order matter for keydown and keyup you only need 4 keys 12:55:28 if you make the switches 3-position, you only need 4 keys and can type a lot faster 12:55:52 how do you do 3 position? 12:56:01 like two buttons under each finger? 12:56:20 or like you puch extra hard to get the other position? 12:57:10 I think the easiest way is to use two buttons per finger, but controlled with a single lever. 12:57:12 That reminds me a joke: use Caps Lock and Num Lock as two binary switches and Scroll Lock as strobe to talk to computer. 12:57:25 herk: like extend finger, finger at mid/relaxed position,retract finger 12:57:44 kerk: 2 buttons per finger would also work 12:57:56 Why not 3? 12:58:07 Normal, up, down. 12:58:21 as: that's what I just said 12:58:24 3 would work, if you can afford the space for it. 12:58:49 8*3 = 24 12:59:19 The only thing to be really concerned about with these chorded keyboards is RSI. 12:59:26 Where are you going to find 8 another? 12:59:38 ASau: ? 13:00:36 Ah! You say you supply chord meaning for typing. 13:02:48 5*8 = 40 13:03:20 Yep, Chuck's 15-key sub-keyboard (half of his 27-key keyboard currently in use) would be chorded. 13:08:23 The only thing I want to know, why you don't like 54 keys? 13:09:53 :) 13:09:56 ASau 13:09:57 The Commodore 64 had 64 keys... :) 13:10:14 And besides, ergonomics has a lot to do with it. 13:10:20 And small size. 13:10:40 in my childhood C64 and amiga were superb computers and they did as much as computers today 13:10:43 You weren't here for the beginning of the discussion, where we were talking about small, easily portable, wearable computers. 13:10:50 mur: More. 13:10:55 as: because a usable 54-keyboard doesn't fit comfortably in my pocket 13:11:01 kc5tja yes 13:11:05 I hope to give new life to my Amiga by porting a type of ColorForth to it. 13:11:15 anyone knows how to add netcard to a500? :) 13:11:35 it woudl be nice irc box ;) 13:11:36 mur: old paralell-port ethernet thingy? 13:11:41 mur: Yes. Purchase an Ethernet device for the Amiga 500, and slip it into the left-hand expansion slot. :) 13:11:43 Let's count: 33 alphas + !,.?;:"() 13:11:49 41 keys 13:11:51 no less 13:12:09 though without hdd it might be more painful operation 13:12:22 42 ("-") 13:12:34 XeF4: That won't work on the Amiga; the Amiga's parallel port works subtly differently than the PCs (different electrical connections -- some pins have power on the Amiga, some have power on the PC, they're not the same pins. :)) 13:12:40 mur: 800KB used properly is a lot 13:13:18 kc5: but all the important pins are there so the adaptor should take a 5min glance at the a500 manual +10 min soldering 13:13:18 ASau: 64 keys is a nice even power of two, and adequately provides room for shift keys, control keys, cursor keys, and programmable function keys. 13:13:29 XeF4: True. 13:13:41 XeF4: Do they still make parallel port Ethernet adaptors? 13:14:02 kc5: I've not seen them new but they are easy enough to get 2nd-hand 13:14:18 kc5: at least here flea markets are overflowing with them 13:14:20 kc: Yes. 64 keys are sufficient. 13:15:16 67 keys are standard keyboard in main part. 13:15:17 ASau: Another reason for looking into Chorded keyboards -- keys are expensive. :) Unless you're getting a PC keyboard, individual keys can add up. 13:16:39 I think that at most it could be possible to press two keys simultaneously. 13:16:41 as: I count 59 on this one 13:16:49 But no more. 13:17:02 It'd be too complex to learn and use 13:17:40 I find that excuse to be quite common in the computer industry. 13:17:55 Historical evidence shows that humankind are exceptionally adaptable creatures. 13:18:14 There is no evidence to suggest that a chorded keyboard will be any more difficult to learn TO A COMPLETE NEWBIE than a regular-sized keyboard. 13:18:42 kc5: the complete newbie can hunt and peck with a regular keyboard 13:18:48 OK, that needs further investigation. 13:19:00 but to use efficiently is another matter 13:19:32 Max. speed, avg. speed etc. 13:19:43 This argument often pops up especially with respect to command-lines. 13:19:48 "It's too hard for people to learn and use." 13:19:50 BULLCRAP! 13:20:03 The command-line is NOT hard to learn, is NOT hard to use (arguably, it's vastly easier), . . . 13:20:32 What the crux of the issue is, we're making computer equipment in such a manner that it appeals to people who don't want to learn something new. 13:20:37 That's an argument applicable to any instrument, not only computer. 13:20:53 And the learning curve is not that steep. 13:20:53 But it's too often forgotten. 13:21:00 kc5: harder to get *something* immediately though (not saying this is a bad thing, since real tools are like this too) 13:21:48 * kc5tja nods 13:21:50 XeF: Computer is a tool. 13:22:02 It needs time to study. 13:22:03 hm. s/real/mechanical/ 13:23:21 XeF: It doesn't matter, whether it is mechanical or electical. 13:23:37 * kc5tja sighs -- I was considering redirecting my kc5tja@arrl.net account to my new e-mail account, but I'm thinking twice now. It's the target of so many spam lists that it's not funny. 13:24:23 Time to learn filters and spam-killers? 13:24:32 ASau: And this fixes things how? 13:24:38 The spammers will still send the spam. 13:24:47 I'm still paying for THEIR use of MY bandiwdth. 13:25:17 I might as well just use the ultimate spam filter there is: my Yahoo! mail account. 13:25:29 Hm. I see that our public post-providers reject many spam letters. 13:25:30 Keeps the riff-raff away from my important mail account. 13:26:25 Again, I'm still paying for it. 13:26:29 AS: when I used a yahoo! account, about 1/5-1/3 of the spam still got through, which is still a huge amount when you get 50 spams/day 13:26:35 My monthly fees goes towards the bandwidth consumed by spammers. 13:27:01 Sometimes they reject even your friend's letters :) 13:27:02 kc5: does your monthly fee actually increase or is it just a matter of principle? 13:27:07 But the thing is, kc5tja@arrl.net was somehow "acquired" by a particularly elusive spammer, and now I'm getting on average 12 to 24 spams a day 13:27:41 Hm. Create a white-list. 13:27:48 XeF4: Both, but I'm in no way close to being charge for overages. :) 13:27:54 ASau: Old hat technology. 13:28:10 Baysian filtering is unbeatable (and proven so). 13:28:16 Reject everything except white-list members' post, only repeats are considered. 13:28:37 That's a very simple, but it works. 13:28:53 And it prevents any new customers from e-mailing me. 13:28:59 Effectively putting me out of business. 13:29:01 No thank you. 13:29:11 It only require your new customers to post you twice. 13:29:40 You don't run a business, do you? 13:29:55 Of course I don't. 13:29:58 You never treat a customer in a hostile manner. 13:30:03 Even potentially hostile. 13:30:11 I can just hear them on the phone now. 13:30:13 Then you've to think another way. 13:30:15 "Did you get my e-mail? 13:30:30 I already posted another way. See above. 13:30:45 I've understood. 13:31:05 That's more complex and less reliable. 13:31:09 What is? 13:31:37 I don't know, but these filters sometimes kill non-spam. 13:32:00 OK, before making a wholesale incorrect generalisation, please do some research on Baysian filters. 13:32:14 Executive summary: NEVER false positive, SOMETIMES (<1%) false negative. 13:32:34 I strongly recommend reading the Paul Graham article on Baysian filtering. 13:32:39 Maybe our provider uses another method. 13:32:39 * kc5tja seeks uRL 13:32:53 I know where to find it. 13:33:28 * ASau don't receive so much spam as to think about such filtering. 13:34:07 I'd rather make white list. 13:34:19 Wah! 13:34:26 I'm to go. 13:34:28 Bye 13:34:36 --- quit: ASau () 13:35:31 Is it just me, or is ASau so damned closed minded that he's acting like a moron? 13:36:32 Bayesian mail filters are well known to work, which is why they're literally popping up all over the place. Yet, in total defiance, "[He'd] rather make white list[s]." 13:36:37 * kc5tja sighs 13:38:54 maybe he talks about penis enlargement over email and gets a lot of false positives? =) 13:41:46 I have to wonder about him sometimes. 13:42:01 He does not appreciate anyone else thinking differently than him. 13:42:14 God Forbid(tm) we Forth hackers be eccentrics. 13:42:26 That is, after all, the defining characteristic of a Forth programmer. 13:42:36 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:42:36 --- quit: whee (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:43:05 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 13:43:05 --- join: whee (bph8876@grace.isc.rit.edu) joined #forth 13:43:24 kc5: he's hardly the only one in here who does that 13:43:35 TreyB: aha ;-) 13:44:38 eh? 13:44:40 * TreyB returns from a net-split. 13:47:50 XeF4: But he is the most vocal about it. 13:48:41 XeF4: Serg_Penguin is another one who behaves similarly, but isn't nearly so, "You're wrong, so you're not thinking right!" 13:48:58 I usually find chatting with Serg to be quite pleasant most of the time. 13:49:11 I don't get this sensation chatting with ASau. 13:52:03 I wonder if I sometimes seem that way because I don't usually bother to say "me too me too" every time someone says something I agree with 13:52:19 serg seems to pretty much the same 13:52:35 Serg doesn't like me being negative about the Scientologists... ;) 13:53:29 I won't even go there. 13:54:13 XeF4: A little bit, but then you redeem yourself with thoughtful, insightful commentary which tells me, "Gee, this person is actually thinking and comprehending. I'm glad to know that the time I spent contributing isn't going to waste, even if he doesn't agree." 13:54:52 If I'm going to spend my time talking to walls, well, I have four walls around me that I can use, and they consume a hell of a lot less power than my PC. 13:55:11 I mean, everybody has their bad days. 13:55:24 I try hard not to be consistent about having a bad day, though. :) 13:59:58 trayb: oops, thought whee is related to you somehow.. 14:00:40 * rO| likes bots :-) 14:06:15 kc5tja: Michael Alyn Miller http://www.strangegizmo.com/about/ Target Revocable E-Mail 14:12:09 ASau: And this fixes things how? 14:12:09 The spammers will still send the spam. 14:13:22 cause detection and account rotation 14:17:38 So now, instead of spending the money for bandwidth consumed by the spammer, I now need to spend part of my day (I bill $80/hour, BTW) contacting someone about each and every spam I get, and reporting them for follow-up action which almost never gets anywhere, because the original spam account has long since been closed by the time I got the spam to begin with? 14:18:34 * kc5tja knows how spammers work. While running Armored Internet, we got a few clients who were spammers. 14:18:41 They would use the account normally, like any other customer. 14:18:48 Until it came time to pay their next monthly bill. 14:19:17 We'd send them a late notice, and in response, they'd bulk mail and slam dunk us network bandwidth consumption. 14:19:25 They don't care that the account is killed. 14:19:33 They, in fact, EXPECT the account to be killed. 14:19:51 But in the time I type "rmuser" on the shell, hundreds of mails have already been spent. That's a net win for the spammers. 14:19:55 why do they wait for the first month? 14:20:15 XeF4: Would you approach an ISP saying, "Yeah, I fully intend on using this account for spamming!"? 14:20:44 They sit low for the first month or two because they want to remove any possible suspicion we have of the customer. 14:20:54 kc5: no, but what is the difference if I start tomorrow or 30 days from now? I have the account and it will be killed after a couple days activity anyway 14:21:02 kc5: or do you watch new accounts more closely? 14:21:13 We always watched new accounts closely. 14:21:18 It is standard practice here in California. 14:22:00 And most other places too. Most ISP EULAs now include explicit verbiage about spamming and other bulk network load consumption, and there are now automated tools to red-flag user accounts accordingly. 14:22:15 These tools didn't exist when I was in the business, but they certainly exist today. 14:22:36 So they wait until their bill is up, knowing full well that lack of payment will close the account anyway. 14:22:50 Spammers are very evil people. 14:23:05 I know a couple of people who work in the advertising industry, and even THEY hate spammers. 14:23:11 That should tell you something. :( 14:23:30 Everybody hates spammers. 14:24:08 They 99.9% intellectual 'elite' does, at least. 14:24:34 The rest buys the penis enlargement pills... 14:25:15 btw who needs some? 14:25:20 the rest has buying power of billion 14:25:21 rofl 14:25:22 :D 14:52:00 someone yet looked at the src of us e lection sys? 14:59:22 If you're referring to our government election machines, they are not computerized. They are purely mechanical devices. 15:11:37 does that mean you really voted on paper? gov spent $4b on touchscreen and optical devices.. 15:13:00 erm, not only on digital voter interfaces 15:19:31 quite a sum, 20 bucks x 200 million 15:20:09 --- quit: kc5tja (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:23:38 always great to learn again :-) 15:30:50 --- quit: XeF4 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 15:35:59 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 15:44:14 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 15:44:14 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 15:52:32 --- quit: XeF4 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:52:34 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 16:50:46 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 17:30:56 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@pc0adn1d.ppp.fcc.net) joined #forth 17:30:56 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 17:31:00 hiya all 17:31:39 terve mur :) 17:35:46 Hi :) 17:35:52 moi :) 17:35:54 Hyvää iltää. 17:37:10 I see I440r has visited here last night! nice to know he's alive...though not well financially.... 17:39:32 How are things going with him? 17:42:52 oh, I read the log file...it looks like he's doing alright, but needs $$$ :) 17:43:44 That's been the situation for as long as I've known him. 17:43:58 Hope things get sorted out, though. 17:44:06 Can't be fun having to leave your house :( 17:44:12 yes but good night now 17:44:31 Night mur 17:44:41 --- quit: XeF4 (Remote closed the connection) 17:44:43 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 17:44:49 --- quit: mur ("goodd night") 17:44:57 ok...hyvää yötä sitten 17:45:03 rats 17:55:05 gotta go...bye all 17:55:45 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 18:21:51 --- quit: Herkamire (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:22:34 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 18:27:51 --- quit: Herkamire (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:29:17 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 18:47:58 --- join: I440r (~x@dialup-67.29.214.160.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net) joined #forth 18:49:35 Hi! 18:49:37 And good night :) 19:14:00 lol 19:14:17 nite. me zzz too 19:14:20 --- quit: I440r () 21:29:39 --- quit: a7r (Remote closed the connection) 21:30:21 --- join: CrowKilr (CrowKilr@Ottawa-HSE-ppp3654222.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 21:30:37 hoi hoi 21:30:39 ;p 21:30:48 --- quit: ianni (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:30:48 --- quit: skylan (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:30:48 --- quit: Robert (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:30:55 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h126n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 21:30:55 --- join: skylan (sjh@vickesh01-4814.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 21:30:55 --- join: ianni (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 21:32:09 question: how do you implement conditionnals in your forth, if any? 21:39:01 ok ok, nevermind ;p 21:49:47 --- quit: Fractal (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:49:47 --- quit: XeF4 (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:49:47 --- quit: flyfly (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:49:56 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 21:49:56 --- join: Fractal (bron@i.either.got.mad.cow.from.alberta.beef.or.strongLSD.com) joined #forth 21:49:56 --- join: flyfly (~marekb@ip164.ktvprerov.cz) joined #forth 21:52:42 --- quit: TreyB (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:52:42 --- quit: whee (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:52:52 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 21:52:52 --- join: whee (bph8876@grace.isc.rit.edu) joined #forth 21:54:11 --- quit: Herkamire (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 21:54:20 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 21:57:01 Some gamecube hacking is on the way!! it's named the Warp Pipe project!! 21:57:31 it's one of my dream to program a gamecube, the processor looks really cool on paper, with all this embedded ram! 22:19:02 --- quit: Herkamire ("vacation. see you all in 10 days") 22:34:39 --- quit: CrowKilr ("im working on it...") 23:27:09 --- quit: Fractal (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:27:09 --- quit: flyfly (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:27:09 --- quit: XeF4 (orwell.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:27:18 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 23:27:18 --- join: Fractal (bron@i.either.got.mad.cow.from.alberta.beef.or.strongLSD.com) joined #forth 23:27:18 --- join: flyfly (~marekb@ip164.ktvprerov.cz) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.07.18