00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.07.10
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14:36:37 <w1k1> XeF4: hi!
14:38:47 <XeF4> hi again
15:14:18 <w1k1> what are you coding atm? ;-)
15:15:15 <XeF4> at the moment, nothing, but in recent days, own colorforth, postsscript gen, image browser thingy
15:15:37 <XeF4> +softsynth (must remember to finish that.. hmz)+demo
15:20:56 <XeF4> wik1: and you=
15:20:58 <XeF4> ?
15:23:52 <w1k1> next will be getting cf running on my old 386 lap...
15:24:11 <XeF4> nice
15:24:17 <XeF4> cm's code?
15:24:20 <XeF4> or your own?
15:24:51 <w1k1> but delaying that since days..
15:25:03 <w1k1> cm's
15:26:22 <w1k1> and tim's (blockserver/vt52)
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18:05:53 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
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18:19:35 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Robert
18:19:44 <TheBlueWizard> well, gotta zip...bye all
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19:28:52 <a7r> oi
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20:22:16 <Robert> Morning Forthers
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20:40:21 <ianni> morning.
20:43:16 <XeF4> morning
20:44:12 <XeF4> I just woke feeling fairly rested (-slight hangover) after 4hrs sleep without outside intervention.
20:44:24 * XeF4 wonders how this is possible
20:48:04 <Robert> Hah, same here.
20:48:22 <Robert> But no hangover. :)
20:51:18 <ianni> it'd odd, our mis(conception) of time
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20:51:43 <ianni> i've read about people who used to just nap for small periods of time and got their rest that way
20:51:52 <ianni> like, doze off for half an hour a couple t imes a day
20:51:58 <Robert> I know one who does that.
20:52:14 <ianni> and then, ive read about the people who walk around in a dream-like state
20:52:18 <XeF4> ianni: I've done that, but I felt just awful after a week or so
20:52:22 <ianni> like some student of jungs, a prodessor
20:52:24 <ianni> professor
20:52:34 <ianni> i read he would forget what city he was in and ask ppl
20:52:41 <ianni> but be teaching a class in a uni
20:52:43 <ianni> haha
20:52:44 <a7r> hey
20:52:50 <ianni> XeF4 i can imagnie
20:53:02 <XeF4> (sleeping just short naps)
20:53:04 <XeF4> hey a7r
20:53:12 <a7r> sup?
20:53:24 <Robert> Heh!
20:54:33 <XeF4> ianni: I've known people like that and it scares the ---- out of me when they operate machinery in my presence
20:54:46 <XeF4> otherwise, I guess it works =)
20:54:56 <ianni> XeF4: lol
20:55:15 <ianni> well when you look at it life is nothing but a big vivid dream
20:55:22 <ianni> what more can you measure it by but perception
21:02:32 <XeF4> nothing, but there are some preceptions I try to avoid
21:03:10 <XeF4> (burning, crushing, cutting, etc)
21:09:22 <ianni> without those, you'd be a dead man though
21:09:26 <ianni> OTOH
21:09:26 <ianni> :)
21:11:35 <XeF4> ianni: no, I'm not a dead man because I avoid those perceptions.
21:12:12 <ianni> no
21:12:16 <ianni> without pain you could be though
21:12:28 <ianni> or maybe your mother 
21:12:42 <ianni> thus negating your existence... but yeah, i know what you mean i guess
21:16:47 <XeF4> I mean I avoid things that bring those perceptions, so I'm not a dead man.
21:18:51 <ianni> ah.
21:18:57 <ianni> same.
21:43:39 <Klaw> nerd
21:57:47 <ianni> haha
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22:40:49 <Robert> Privet, Serg :)
22:42:32 <Serg_Penguin> hi
22:42:38 <a7r> hey
22:42:47 <a7r> Robert: how's the microcontroller stuff going?
22:42:55 <Serg_Penguin> i just wrote yet another spline - in Qbasic
22:43:14 <Serg_Penguin> Qbasic suxx - too shallow stack :((
22:43:31 <Robert> a7r: Not bad, I even got free microcontroller samples from Microchip. :)
22:45:35 <a7r> Robert: werd, how's the forth-on-AVR stuff going?
22:48:51 <Robert> Haven\t worked with it for a while.
22:49:09 <Robert> But I thought about it earlier, I want to continue coding on it.
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22:50:50 <Serg_Penguin> hi !
22:50:52 <Robert> Hey
22:51:02 <kc5tja> Greetings.
22:51:15 <Serg_Penguin> how's your Stirling engines ?
22:51:36 <kc5tja> It's going to take more than a day to build one of these things.  Much planning needs to be done.
22:51:51 <Serg_Penguin> i got pretty hooked on it, but sorry i have not enough metallwork skills ;((
22:52:21 <kc5tja> Well, it's possible to make (weak) engines without good metal working skills.  But it is a challenge to do.
22:52:46 * kc5tja intends on making one in the near future.  I have devised a way to actuate the displacer without puncturing the engine's seals.
22:53:00 <kc5tja> I don't think it'll be as efficient, but it ought to work enough to self-sustain.
22:53:05 <kc5tja> And if it does that, I'm a happy camper.  :)
22:54:00 <Serg_Penguin> heh, i thunk of engine in completely sealed can, w/ flywheel from 2 magnets, driving anotjher magnets outside...
22:54:19 <Serg_Penguin> or generating e-energy if some coils outside
22:54:45 <kc5tja> I'm going to use the top of a Gatorade bottle as the power piston "cylinder."  The displacer cylinder will be made of papier mache, and the hot and cold heat exchangers will be zinc-coated steel from an electrical outlet box.  Everything is pretty cheap to make.
22:55:30 <kc5tja> Serg_Penguin: Already thought of elsewhere.  Lots of Stirlings are built this way because it's easier to pressurize the interior of the engine (the higher the interior pressure, the more power you get out of it), especially with helium as the working fluid.
22:58:45 <kc5tja> In fact, for generating electricity, a lot of Stirling engines don't have a crank and flywheel at all.
22:59:00 <kc5tja> They'll drive the displacer with a voice-coil, like a speaker, and the power piston is used to direct-drive a linear alternator.
22:59:34 <kc5tja> These types of engines tend to be a bit noisy unless true sinusoidal piston movements are used, but if not, they are actually more efficient.
23:02:05 <Serg_Penguin> heh, it's more difficult to build out of cans and throat-cut bottles ;))
23:02:35 <kc5tja> Yeah, but when it works, it's a HELL of a lot more fun.  :)
23:03:29 <Serg_Penguin> and, it's easier to seal, coz no holes for crankshaft or even no pistons
23:03:29 <kc5tja> Actually, a few people have built Hirata's "coffee-can Stirling" engine, and some even reported speeds as fast as 1200RPM.  That's 20 revolutions per second from Foldgers coffee and a balloon.  Not bad.  :D
23:04:03 <kc5tja> Well, inside the sealed engine, you still need the displacer cylinder to be sealed, because it's pressure needs to rise above and below ambient in order to move the power piston.
23:04:25 <kc5tja> (I assume you were referring to the completely sealed engine design)
23:05:13 <Serg_Penguin> but, you can change pistons to rubbers w/ woicecoil
23:07:01 <kc5tja> Well, to a certain extent, yes.  It all depends.
23:07:22 <kc5tja> Pistons are a better technology for long-life, but diaphrams are good for low friction.
23:07:32 <kc5tja> It just depends on the application profile.
23:07:41 <kc5tja> I try to use diaphrams because that's the only option available to me.
23:12:07 <Serg_Penguin> can you accept a picture ?
23:12:23 <kc5tja> I can accept DCCs, i just can't send them.
23:13:30 <Serg_Penguin> see my DCC ?
23:13:44 <kc5tja> Yes, but I accepted, and it told me connection refused.
23:14:13 <Serg_Penguin> my stoopid personal firewall..
23:14:32 <kc5tja> Yeah, that's why I can't send anything.
23:14:33 <kc5tja> Same thing.
23:14:53 <Serg_Penguin> dammit....
23:15:41 <Serg_Penguin> i say, use 2 wide shallow cans w/ diafragms, connected by pipe
23:15:58 <kc5tja> Ahh, yes, the Alpha configuration of Stirling engine.
23:16:19 <Serg_Penguin> 2-piston, not "displacer"
23:16:28 <kc5tja> The problem is, with the powers I'm using, I can't move enough air.  The air in the pipe will act as a spring to absorb the minute movements.
23:16:47 <kc5tja> But I've often thought of that.  Maybe someday I'll try it just because.
23:16:57 <kc5tja> Lord knows, I drink enough Gatorade to justify the time spent trying.  :D
23:17:05 <Serg_Penguin> so make pipe mega wide
23:17:06 <kc5tja> I have tons of plastic bottle caps lying around.  :D
23:17:32 <kc5tja> Hmm...no, the pipe needs to be pretty thin as I recall correctly.  You want efficient heat input/output of the moving gas.
23:17:42 <kc5tja> Big pipes tend to inhibit heat flow.
23:17:48 <Serg_Penguin> he-he, you'll be rich if world will become Fallout 
23:17:59 <kc5tja> Become "fallout?"
23:18:21 <kc5tja> I think I'd be rich if I could make a *small* 1HP Stirling engine -- something no bigger than a lawn mower engine.
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23:18:36 <Serg_Penguin> "Fallout" post-nuke RPG, where bottle capse were used as coins
23:18:39 <kc5tja> Unfortunately, our current materials can't handle the temperatures involved with making that a reality.
23:18:56 <kc5tja> Heheheh -- I didn't know that.  Weird.  :D
23:25:18 <Serg_Penguin> so, make the pipe variable diameter, for both easy and fast flow
23:26:20 <Serg_Penguin> give it shape of tornado - thicker at ends, thinner in middle, and make transition from cylinder to pipe smooth
23:26:42 <kc5tja> That would work, but I'd have to make a large displacement engine, no matter how you look at it.
23:26:54 <kc5tja> And large displacements take tons of oomph to do.  :)
23:27:09 <kc5tja> Now, if I could get a soda straw to work as a piston cylinder, I might be able to pull it off.
23:27:17 <Serg_Penguin> oomph ??
23:27:27 <kc5tja> Energy, basically.
23:27:39 <kc5tja> It's the sound you make when you push really hard on a large object to get it to move.  :)
23:28:15 <Serg_Penguin> hehe, the sound i make is usually heavy and foul recursive curse ;))
23:28:50 <kc5tja> :)
23:30:24 <Serg_Penguin> have you read the 'Brave soldier Schweik' of Carel Chapek ?
23:30:34 <kc5tja> Never heard of those.
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23:30:55 <Serg_Penguin> oooooops.....
23:32:03 <Serg_Penguin> or maybe title heavily mistranslated ??? it's a must read humor novel...
23:34:48 <ianni> and read the docs
23:34:51 <ianni> woops
23:34:53 <ianni> :)
23:37:24 <Serg_Penguin> offtopic:
23:37:37 <Serg_Penguin> do you know any 'picture sucker' proggie ?
23:37:48 <kc5tja> Nope
23:38:01 <kc5tja> I'm sure they exist though.
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23:39:00 <Serg_Penguin> varying from  www.pictures.com/001.jpg to www.pictures.com/999.jpg and downloading all ;)
23:39:43 <kc5tja> That's a lot of pictures.
23:39:43 <kc5tja> :)
23:40:10 <ianni> just to download a lot?
23:40:26 <ianni> thats easy, in a unix shell, isnt it?
23:40:40 <kc5tja> I would use Python and wget to script it.
23:40:41 <Serg_Penguin> yeah, w/o lots of rat exercises ;)
23:40:57 <kc5tja> for i in range(0,1000):
23:41:09 <Serg_Penguin> hehe, u won't find neither shell nor python in a lame inet-cafe
23:41:12 <kc5tja>   os.system( 'wget %d.jpg' % (i) )
23:41:15 <kc5tja> And that's it.  :)
23:41:21 <kc5tja> Heheheh :D
23:41:42 <Serg_Penguin> so javascript or server-side perl script ;((
23:42:14 <ianni> or ssh... if you have a remote server.. where are you going to store them all?
23:42:36 <ianni> i'd just find the indexpage and do wget -r -x url
23:42:37 <ianni> :P
23:42:46 <ianni> thats nice , in python
23:42:50 <Serg_Penguin> javascript - on any free site ;)
23:43:16 <Serg_Penguin> here in RU, you have more banners than good pics, via indexpage
23:43:35 <Serg_Penguin> not only XXX but even a submarines ;)
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23:59:54 <kc5tja> OK, I'm off to bed.
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.07.10