00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.07.08 00:00:34 * Serg_Penguin never seen an USA soda can 00:00:47 The mechanical linkage is more complex this way, but it guarantees a proper seal, or at least, a substantially better seal than what I've had before. 00:01:51 why won't you invent an open-cycle machine , removing air from room so performing ventilation ? 00:04:54 Because then it wouldn't be Stirling cycle anymore. 00:04:54 :) 00:04:59 And it'd be louder 00:05:15 And it'd require valves, which I neither have the time to hack up, nor the equipment necessary to make them. 00:05:39 A simple fan is more than adequate for moving air in the room. 00:05:49 I just need a power source to drive the fan -- that's where the Stirling engine comes in. 00:15:48 i read what if you drive stirling by e-motor, you have an 'heat pump' 00:15:58 * kc5tja nods 00:16:00 what about air conditioner on this ? 00:16:19 It's been proposed in the past, but I've not seen anything come of it. 00:16:45 I believe Rankine cycle devices, which current air conditioners are, have better power density than Stirling units. 00:17:10 But, on the plus side, stirling units ARE used to get near-zero K temperatures for liquifying Helium and related substances. :D 00:17:24 ;) 00:17:55 i have read what in cold RU, stirling is 5 time more energy-effective than just electric heater ;) 00:18:17 Makes use of the already low temperatures outside, no doubt. 00:19:28 no,no - as _heater_ 00:19:42 it heats inside and cools outside even colder 00:19:49 Hmm...dunno 00:23:06 why won't you look at experience of Arabs and other nations who have to fight heat ? 00:23:15 w/o any engines ;) 00:23:36 For the same reason I prefer to write software in Forth instead of C -- because I can. 00:23:51 ??? 00:24:13 Just because everyone else who uses Linux writes their software in C, doesn't mean I have to. 00:24:42 yeah, no more heat... ;) 00:24:52 what about UNIX kernel in Forth ? 00:25:00 Likewise, just because the Arabs are used to the sweltering (and, I might add, DRY) heat and deal with it by basically going around stark naked except for light-colored, reflective gowns, doesn't mean I have to do the same. 00:25:52 or complete UNIX, w/ all the utils ? 00:25:53 Also, they live in a large desert, far away from coastal weather patterns. They get wind at night -- LOTS of it. 00:27:03 I don't see any reason to rewrite Unix in Forth when C already works quite well for that purpose. 00:27:26 it's so bloated... 00:27:50 It'll be bloated if written in Forth too. 00:27:59 it's beyond my skill, but would i feel i can, i would attempt 00:28:01 Unix, by its very nature, by its very design, is horribly bloated. 00:28:13 why ? 35 tiny syscalls ! 00:28:26 A kernel an operating system does not make. 00:28:36 You also need the utilities, the shells, etc. 00:28:48 Oh, and the device drivers. 00:28:53 I forgot about those. 00:28:54 forth is shell by nature ;) 00:29:01 Forth isn't BASH. 00:29:40 You can write a POSIX-compliant kernel in, I'd guess, about 32KB of code. Absolutely tiny, not counting device drivers for core devices. 00:30:00 But everything else is going to just suck up resources. 00:31:42 why ? one language for all - from ASM to glue scripting 00:31:52 no bash, no perl, no C 00:32:04 even one interpreter ;) 00:32:19 But then it wouldn't be Unix. 00:33:01 ;)) 00:33:33 anyway, such a thing can rock the scene as well as Linux did 00:34:08 Certainly. 00:34:17 A nice, tiny, compile-as-you-need-it OS kernel would be quite nice. 00:34:27 But I doubt it could legitimately be called Unix. :) 00:34:33 You could call it Unix-like, though. 00:34:47 or Posix-compliant if you really wanted. 00:37:04 the only bad thing - hardware is not thunk Forth way, it's utter mess ;(( 00:37:25 stupid hangovers of 70-s 00:52:52 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 01:08:50 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@h126n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 01:09:19 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:22:07 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 01:41:07 --- nick: Robert_ -> Robert 02:38:29 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 03:04:45 --- quit: Robert (Remote closed the connection) 03:04:50 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@h126n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 03:11:17 --- quit: a7r_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:40:54 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 03:41:04 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 04:19:33 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202-0-42-22.cable.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 05:03:26 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 05:03:30 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 05:14:55 --- quit: larkin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:28:46 --- nick: Robert_ -> Robert 06:22:04 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-190-158.phnet.fi) joined #forth 07:05:10 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 07:19:16 --- quit: Soap` () 08:07:52 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 08:25:51 --- join: w1k1_ (~w1k1@pD954570F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 08:34:08 --- quit: w1k1 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:36:43 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 08:37:06 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 08:51:24 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 08:52:28 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 08:59:51 ups 10:51:35 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 11:07:20 --- quit: paxl (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11:10:39 --- join: paxl (paxl@modemcable110.168-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) joined #forth 11:33:19 --- join: knoppix (~knoppix@67.97.122.106) joined #forth 11:33:30 --- part: knoppix left #forth 12:02:38 --- nick: w1k1_ -> w1k1 12:31:19 --- quit: a7r_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 12:40:17 --- quit: mur ("MURR! save the http://rainforest.care2.com/ (click url there)") 14:54:25 --- quit: ianni (Excess Flood) 14:54:26 --- join: ianni (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 14:55:10 --- quit: ianni (Excess Flood) 14:55:10 --- join: ianni (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 17:21:49 --- join: larkin (~zcb@dpc6682117153.direcpc.com) joined #forth 17:23:43 Hi larkin 17:23:57 Have I met you before? 17:24:41 I don't think so 17:25:20 I just started coming in the other day, when some people helped me out with some asm links 17:26:44 asm scripting language 17:27:23 if that's what you call it 17:27:37 Okay.. Just saw you were in alot of channels I'm on. 17:27:49 So I thought you might be someone I know, under a different nick. 17:28:03 nah 17:28:07 Nice meeting you anyway. :) 17:28:12 thanks 17:28:28 ok this is kind of a stupid ? 17:29:02 but I'm learning asm and can make windows programs 17:29:23 I'm wondering, I got linux on my other hd, is there a way to import the gnome, or kde libary 17:29:25 into nasm 17:29:34 Sure. 17:29:47 Just do like you would have done it in gcc. 17:30:07 Only that you have to look up how to import library functions. 17:30:08 yeah 17:30:33 Not sure about how dynamic linking works, but statically linked programs wouldn't be much trouble. 17:30:40 The big question is just: "why?" 17:31:05 Why would you want to save a few kB when you use a desktop environment that wastes megabytes? 17:31:37 yeah 17:32:20 I just want to make a graphical interface 17:32:59 I was thinking of making my one jabber client or something 17:33:02 I have no idea 17:33:10 But why in assembly language? 17:33:37 cause it produces smaller executable files, and runs faster 17:34:29 would that be correct 17:35:10 Not really. 17:35:34 gcc produces really fast code, and unless you're a skilled assembly programmer, faster than your code. 17:35:52 And.. uh, linking to a HUUUGE Gnome library makes your files pretty large too. 17:35:53 yeah 17:36:06 In a big system like Linux, it's simply not worth it. 17:36:24 If you have a small computer, with a few kB of RAM, you should use assembly language. 17:36:39 Not not on your new PC with 100GB of hard disk and 1GB of RAM. :) 17:36:49 I got this p4 laptop with 2gb of ram 17:37:03 yeah 180gb 17:37:40 ok so maybe I'm crazy or something 17:37:55 for wanting to make an asm prog 17:38:07 what would you suggest, c or c++ 17:42:28 C :) 17:42:40 But that's only because g++ is too slow to run on my computer. ;) 17:42:50 Use whatever language you like best. 17:42:53 Tried Forth? 18:10:27 nah 18:12:40 ok this might be stupid 18:12:46 but is forth a language 18:14:11 it's a metaphysical method of cognative trasmission 18:14:24 without the typos 18:14:33 typos break it, because it's a computer language 18:14:59 k 18:15:36 Oceanside, California -- is really close to me 18:15:51 don't let KC5TJA know that i'm stalking him 19:02:27 --- join: suprdupr (CrowKilr@HSE-Windsor-ppp251461.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 19:02:34 --- nick: suprdupr -> CrowKilr 19:21:33 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@h126n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 19:21:33 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:33:40 --- quit: CrowKilr () 20:58:00 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 22:12:31 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:13:20 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 22:15:40 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:15:57 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 22:22:01 --- quit: a7r_ ("Client exiting") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.07.08