00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.06.30
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01:08:07 <a7r_> hey
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05:45:02 <anli> deluxe_: Did you remove the wikipedia?
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09:39:31 * deluxe back online
09:39:39 <deluxe> bon soir
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10:59:19 <geakazoid> hello all; wanted to announce for those who did not hear it; Al Mitchel of AMR presented his Gadget Stamp collection at the SVFIG on Sat. It sports Forth as the premium embedded language on the single chip board and is supposed to be at least 500 times faster than the industry standard. Forth source comes in gforth flavors for windows and linux
11:00:41 <kc5tja> Cool.
11:01:25 <geakazoid> yeah, and there is a motherboard kit to program it too; he is also working on an ethernet product that will be programmable
11:02:00 * kc5tja is proud to announce that the aikido seminar was a wonderful success.  
11:02:13 <kc5tja> Highest attendance ever -- 81 people attended.
11:03:02 <kc5tja> Despite the mat being more than twice as large as our own dojo's, we came dangerously close to running completely out of mat space.
11:13:19 <geakazoid> gotta log out and back in
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11:24:38 <geakazoid> I recall that there are some webmasters here, I have kept bringing up forth scripting to the svfig and there are some samples but they are proprietary top sercet codes but I wanted to do some free source coding with the tcp/ip if anyone is interested in projects surrounding forth cgi programming please email me at azedia@dolfina.org
11:26:38 <geakazoid> ok
11:29:06 <geakazoid> sorry, did you mean 6 lines at a time? or six per screen scroll?
11:31:39 <TreyB> Context Fault: thinking halted.
11:34:27 <kc5tja> TreyB: Wonderful comeback.  I like that.  :-)
11:38:33 <Herkamire> I'm interested in forth CGI
11:38:56 <Herkamire> I'll probably write a HTTPD in my forth OS eventually
11:39:16 <Herkamire> I'm more interested in a forth apache module
11:39:30 <Herkamire> for apache2
11:39:47 <Herkamire> I'm too busy/lazy to make one though
11:39:58 <geakazoid> Herkamire, it is better just to write a small forth http because in the end, it will be smaller than apache
11:40:44 <geakazoid> plus you can embed it into small device later when on
11:42:17 <geakazoid> when the market opens up to smaller devices
11:55:37 <Herkamire> I want one for apache so I can use it for me work.
11:56:51 <geakazoid> Herkamire, that would take team work for modules for apache
11:57:02 <Herkamire> plus apache deals with a bunch of things I don't want to such as SSL, compression, virtual host redirects...
11:58:39 <geakazoid> Herkamire, that is why I think it is best to write a separate http server engine that can be called from http because it would not take much space on your server that also has apacher
12:00:39 <Herkamire> If you created a nice httpd in forth that did SSL I would be interested in using it.
12:01:09 <Herkamire> I can get a seccond IP on my server for the forth httpd pretty cheaply
12:02:17 <Herkamire> heh :) I get my asm forth kernel down < 1KB (ppc binary)
12:03:02 <geakazoid> Herkamire why get a second IP when you can listen to another port?
12:03:17 <geakazoid> you have an asm forth project?
12:04:54 <Herkamire> yes. native ppc forth
12:07:04 <geakazoid> you mean mac?
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12:18:03 <Herkamire> apple hardware. it runs only under linux right now.
12:18:32 <geakazoid> kerkamire, does it run well under linux?
12:19:11 <Herkamire> I think it runs well
12:19:27 <Herkamire> the only thing I use linux for is loading the ELF and I use the read and write syscalls.
12:19:46 <geakazoid> well, you say that you have a native forth kernel running, what model are you using to design it?
12:20:53 <geakazoid> I mean, is it for forth os, another ansi forth, or something else?
12:21:12 <Herkamire> I use pre-parsed source with a dictionary in it. The idea is that the editor/interpreter does the dictionary lookups, and the kernel stays very simple/fast.
12:22:00 <Herkamire> for bootstrapping from linux I have a perl script that encodes ascii source and sticks it in the ELF I get from: as kernel.s
12:22:07 <geakazoid> chanserv, thnx for the freebsd links, they are helping to solve some intall issues
12:22:21 <Herkamire> it's a colorforth.
12:23:08 <geakazoid> ok, now that makes some sense, do mean that you are using the linux to bootstrap the colorforthy kernel?
12:23:59 <Herkamire> it doesn't boot. It's currently creates a linux binary (ELF)
12:24:37 <geakazoid> what do you do with the binary
12:24:48 <Herkamire> run it :)
12:25:02 <Herkamire> It doesn't do anything cool yet except compile it's self
12:25:04 <geakazoid> where?
12:25:09 <Herkamire> under linux
12:25:28 <Herkamire> I have to write an editor before it will be any use
12:25:41 <Herkamire> right now I just have an interpreter.
12:26:23 <geakazoid> are you using the enth/flux model?
12:26:26 <Herkamire> which is nice, you can experiment, but you can't edit the forth.
12:26:39 <Herkamire> very simular I think.
12:27:02 <Herkamire> I haven't been able to get enth/flux to run
12:27:27 <Herkamire> perhaps because I'm a twit, but mostly because I don't have an x86 box
12:28:51 <Herkamire> at some point I want to get it to boot, and use it as my primary OS
12:29:35 <geakazoid> colorforth boots on the hard drive
12:30:31 <Herkamire> my computer doesn't have a floppy, so I'm just going to use a small spare HD
12:31:23 <geakazoid> oic, here's the forth os info using grub: http://www.forthos.org/
12:31:45 <Herkamire> grub is for x86
12:32:48 <geakazoid> oh, sorry i don't know anything about apple
12:33:17 <geakazoid> so, you have the colorforth booting from a hd on the apple?
12:33:27 <Herkamire> I will
12:33:34 <Herkamire> first I need an editor
12:33:46 <Herkamire> I could do it without an editor, but it would be useless
12:34:35 <geakazoid> ok, you are running linux on the apple, I guess that is why I assumed you could use grub. isn't there a boot loader on your linux?
12:34:40 <Herkamire> this is my first asm project, so it's not moving ahead blazingly fast.
12:35:22 <Herkamire> no. yaboot is the bootloder for linux on apple hardware
12:36:29 <Herkamire> I plan to make my own bootloder
12:36:47 <geakazoid> I guess you have to
12:37:27 <Herkamire> all it has to do is get some memory with rwx permissions, read the first x blocks of the HD, and start executing at the begining
12:37:54 <Herkamire> and flush the instruction caches.
12:38:37 * Herkamire is going to saw off the last few inches of the the legs to his desk
12:40:05 <deluxe> geaakazoid: 500 times what faster than what?
12:40:11 <deluxe> hi
12:40:47 <deluxe> i'm also very interested in your tcp and cgi stuff ;-)
12:43:01 <geakazoid> deluxe, well, from the horses mouth, I think Al said from the competive stamp, maybe pic?
12:44:59 <deluxe> svfig
12:45:36 <geakazoid> yes, Al Mitchell gave a presenation about the new Gadget and developers kit last Saturday
12:47:02 <geakazoid> it looks like a good developer kit for such projects as tcp/ip like one I am working on to design a controler to turn my pc off and on with a login and password
12:49:37 <Herkamire> geakazoid: you can buy a powerstrip that you can telnet into, and switch outlets on and off
12:49:56 <deluxe> <deluxe> svfig
12:49:56 <deluxe>  <- lol, meant to be written into googletoolbar :-) too much vnc windows open..
12:50:31 <geakazoid> hrm...
12:50:49 <deluxe> <deluxe> svfig <- lol, meant to be written into googletoolbar :-) too much vnc windows open..
12:50:54 <deluxe> now..
12:51:23 <deluxe> excuse moi
12:51:30 <Herkamire> my hosting provider gave me access to it when we kept hanging our old server.
12:52:16 <geakazoid> I'd like to make a control switch box that recieves signals from the net and if authenticated, it wakes up the lan, if not merely denies it, or logs it
12:52:40 * Herkamire goes to get food
12:53:09 <geakazoid> I'd like to make a control switch box that recieves signals from the net and if authenticated, it wakes up the lan, if not merely denies it, or logs itaMR
12:53:12 <geakazoid> yikes
12:54:04 <geakazoid> the AMR Gadget is programmed with gforth, which I have looked at but never used, I found a freebsd port: http://www.freshports.org/lang/gforth/
12:55:55 <geakazoid> i'd like to do the project as an open source project for team effort/support
13:16:21 <geakazoid> gotta log off 4 now, here is where the project page is on sf: https://sourceforge.net/projects/goforth this project was awaiing team members and also I have been looking at the various GUIs for forth
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13:26:41 <geakazoid> bye4now
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14:05:41 <thin> hi kc5tja :)
14:07:08 <thin> kc5tja: how was the aikido seminar?  learn anything new?
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14:12:47 <kc5tja> Geez
14:12:54 <kc5tja> Give me time to *ANSWER* why don't you?
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14:13:32 <kc5tja> wb
14:13:52 <kc5tja> We always learn new things at seminars.
14:16:15 <thin> lies! :P
14:16:56 <kc5tja> You won't understand until you train in aikido.
14:17:39 <thin> i'm just kidding a little..
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14:25:56 <kc5tja> If you responded, I didn't hear it.  I got disconnected somehow.
14:26:14 <thin> <thin> i'm just kidding a little..
14:26:27 <thin> btw, i just msged you right now
14:26:42 <kc5tja> Where are the logs for this channel kept?
14:31:19 <thin> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/forth/
14:32:11 <kc5tja> Thanks.
14:34:33 <kc5tja> thin: If you /msg'ed me, I didn't get it.  
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15:53:05 <kc5tja> Foodage...
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16:21:09 <PoppaVic> I've sorta' of a Reality-Check question on vocs/wordlists, guys...
16:21:58 <PoppaVic> Check me on this: the headers, the wordlists and the vocs all live in the same RAM - but you can only find any via the voclinks, wordlists, and threads, right?
16:23:04 <PoppaVic> basically: you can't live w/o a voclink - and other than that, each voc+wordlists+words may all be considered independent?
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16:40:55 <kc5tja> yes.
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16:42:38 <PoppaVic> cool
16:43:06 <PoppaVic> .. I got VMdict_load() written to merely get the dictionary copied into the "userspace" of the engine.
16:43:35 <PoppaVic> then, I simply hook the old voclink to new, new to var & hi-ho silver ;-)
16:44:22 <kc5tja> :)
16:48:12 <kc5tja> Well, I'm off to be thrown around and pinned to the mat by a bunch of screaming little kids.  ;)
16:48:33 <kc5tja> (Today is the kid's tests for their next aikido belt rank)
16:50:22 <PoppaVic> back - had company for a sec
16:50:41 <PoppaVic> I even got peeved with wordlists - and THOSE are a LL as well.
16:51:41 <kc5tja> LL?
16:52:12 <PoppaVic> linked-lists - like the voclink/vocs
16:52:22 * kc5tja nods
16:52:35 <kc5tja> That's what I thought you meant, but wasn't 100% sure.
16:52:38 <PoppaVic> otherwise, you really can't track them for memory-management/dynamic-loading.
16:53:12 <PoppaVic> I had to finagle like mad for HERE capability, though
16:53:56 <PoppaVic> I've implemented:  <#HERE ( - n ) and HERE#> ( n - p )
16:55:03 <PoppaVic> a better nameing-scheme or solution would be nice, but I ain't all that picky - if she works ;-)
16:55:25 <kc5tja> I'm not sure what those do.  How are <#HERE and HERE#> related?
16:55:45 <PoppaVic> the 'n' is an offset into our dynamic buffer out in the heap.
16:56:08 <PoppaVic> the HERE#> resolves that to a real pointer - allowing me to use realloc() as I'd wanted.
16:56:22 <kc5tja> Ahh
16:56:56 <PoppaVic> so, "bodies" can grow nicely, then we can shrink the sucker to minimal on completion.
16:57:05 * kc5tja nods
16:57:20 <PoppaVic> and, with luck, the programmer realizes we deal with relocatable foo-foo
16:58:17 <PoppaVic> I've still got to something ugly about user-vars, though.. *sigh* Otherwise, they ain't ever gonna' be relocatable.
16:59:35 <PoppaVic> I'm considering the expedient of putting the little suckers into another LL, so we can get their butts relocated on load, but it seems unlikely..
17:01:52 <kc5tja> Is it possible to maintain an "out of band" table of variable pointers?
17:02:10 <PoppaVic> yeah, quite.. That's what I'm cogitating.
17:02:52 <PoppaVic> Currently, for example, vm6.c creates a whole slew of user-deferred vars.
17:03:38 <PoppaVic> I know what I need, so I create a static array of what-to-do, then run thru until NULL - asking for uservar pointers.
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17:04:24 <PoppaVic> I suspect a code-routine, hi or low-level, is what is really best for the problem.
17:04:45 <kc5tja> Unfortunately, I need to get cruising.  Aikido kids class starts in 30 minutes.
17:04:52 <PoppaVic> In parsing source, it shouldn't matter in the least.
17:04:54 <PoppaVic> ok, laters
17:05:14 <PoppaVic> It's the precompiled stuff that can be sticky: but it looks like the vm6 solution is best.
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19:33:42 <PoppaVic> hot tamales! The lookup works! ;-)
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20:18:57 <Herkamire> when you have your source in blocks. what's the word to interpret/execute/compile the source in a block? is it LOAD?
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21:22:17 <Herkamire> when you have your source in blocks. what's the word to interpret/execute/compile the source in a block? is it LOAD?
21:22:37 <PoppaVic> I believe so
21:22:44 <PoppaVic> as in " 2 load"
21:24:23 <Herkamire> PoppaVic: thanks
21:24:27 <PoppaVic> sure
21:24:33 <PoppaVic> I hate those blocks ;-)
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