00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.06.23 00:35:47 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 00:35:58 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 00:52:29 --- join: anli (abc123@c-d2b470d5.018-16-67766c2.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 00:53:35 --- quit: Robert (Remote closed the connection) 00:53:49 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 01:20:33 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 01:26:47 --- join: Robert__ (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 01:29:07 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:30:07 --- quit: Robert_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:35:31 Whats the difference between do and u+do? 01:36:48 Is it something with unsigned? 01:43:09 anli: yes 01:43:22 ok 01:43:25 hey onetom 01:44:15 hi anli 01:44:17 hi a7r 01:44:56 anli: if u have gforth, u can say it: see (+do) see (u+do) 01:45:11 then u should notice this difference: 01:45:25 +do: ( $804A44D ) jge 804A57C \ $F $8D $29 $1 $0 $0 01:45:30 ah, ok 01:45:35 u+do: ( $804A4B0 ) jae 804A57C \ $F $83 $C6 $0 $0 $0 01:46:14 I dont understand this: http://rafb.net/paste/results/x2881879.html 01:46:15 jge (jump if greater or equal) is the signed version 01:46:18 yeah 01:46:20 cool 01:46:29 It helps to know some assembly, it seems 01:47:18 hehe, see see worked 01:47:39 How can bye be defined as catch drop bye? ;) 01:48:39 good question :) 01:49:02 Maybe only the first two names are used there... 01:49:12 Then the process is farewell anyway... 02:06:38 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 02:06:52 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 02:12:00 Is hex# and hex equivalent? 02:15:54 --- quit: Trey (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: tr3y!~trey@195.56.253.245))) 03:14:08 --- nick: Robert__ -> Robert 03:25:18 There should be a "help" keyword in gforth... 03:32:34 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:02:06 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:02:35 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 05:32:46 --- join: MalBi_ (~jesus@p50827256.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 05:33:04 --- quit: MalBi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:45:04 What is REC# ? 05:49:54 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 06:37:52 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 07:07:07 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 07:54:57 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 07:56:35 'morning all 08:52:22 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 08:52:23 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 09:01:30 wb kc5tja 09:02:33 re Herkamire 09:02:39 FS/Forth finally loads source from blocks. 09:03:26 * kc5tja can't, unfortunately, unload it once it's loaded. :) I haven't implemented EMPTY yet. 09:03:49 Plus, I need to finish up DOES>, and after that, a set of conditionals. 09:06:33 --- join: fridge (~matt@dsl-203-33-161-33.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 09:08:20 kc5tja: been busy on colorforth ml I see 09:17:50 I have participated here and there, yes. :) 09:18:54 I liked chucks off hand 'write a tcp stack for cf, can't be too hard!' comments 09:19:34 * kc5tja nods 09:19:55 It shouldn't be hard, either. But it will be more intense than UDP's code. 09:20:07 There's a lot more details to have to keep track of. 09:29:40 --- join: PoppaVic (~pfv@s49.waters.gtlakes.com) joined #forth 09:30:58 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-189-104.phnet.fi) joined #forth 09:42:41 everyone is so busy ;-) 09:43:07 yes! 09:43:14 * mur runs in circle. 09:48:48 PoppaVic why dont you join me? :) 10:11:12 --- quit: anli (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:28:40 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 11:07:57 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 11:38:33 ­/clear 11:39:00 hey kc5tja 11:39:51 re 11:41:11 * kc5tja thinks he's going to start work on FS/Forth for Linux pretty soon. 11:41:46 The DOS version is largely complete, though it's missing a few features that are added easily enough. I don't think I'm going to continue to spend time on the DOS version. 11:54:49 Wow. I'm happy. :) 11:55:11 FS/Forth is, on average, 4x faster than PygmyForth. 11:55:22 And that's with the incredibly inefficient register usage. :) 11:55:40 (especially since it is *constantly* exchanging SP and BP registers) 11:56:14 werd. 12:06:45 --- quit: mur (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:06:45 --- quit: fridge (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:06:45 --- quit: MalBi_ (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:06:45 --- quit: XeF4 (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:07:59 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 12:11:13 --- join: fridge (~matt@dsl-203-33-161-33.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 12:20:05 --- join: MalBi_ (~jesus@p50827256.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 12:41:40 Actually, scratch that. 12:41:59 FS/Forth is approximately 6x faster than Pygmy in threading speed. 12:42:38 It's only 0.1x faster than Pygmy in doing actual computation. The limitation is from the CPU itself, and the fact that FS/Forth spends as much time exchanging BP and SP as Pygmy Forth does. Plus it does not inline basic primitives. 12:42:56 Even so, when doing full-blown math, FS/Forth is faster than Pygmy, but only slightly. :D 12:44:18 But remember, too, that basic primitives are not inlined; they're emitted as subroutine calls to words that actually do the computation. 12:44:27 That has a lot to do with it too. 12:49:11 What kind of CPU kc5tja? 12:49:19 80486 33MHz 13:04:13 --- quit: a7r (No route to host) 13:23:19 brb -- errands 13:23:22 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-afk 14:31:51 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-189-104.phnet.fi) joined #forth 14:46:17 --- quit: Herkamire ("buggr") 14:56:43 --- quit: jdrake (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:12:34 --- join: crc (~crc@AC8EB7F9.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 15:43:06 --- nick: kc-afk -> kc5tja 15:59:35 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 16:30:19 --- log: started forth/03.06.23 16:30:19 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 16:30:19 --- topic: '#Forth site: http://forth.bespin.org || 'pure' linux forth coded in asm: http://isforth.clss.net || Also remember to check out Jeff Fox's articles, located at http://www.ultratechnology.com/dindex.htm' 16:30:19 --- topic: set by thin on [Sun Jun 08 10:42:15 2003] 16:30:19 --- names: list (clog fridge a7r crc mur MalBi_ XeF4 @kc5tja TreyB Robert onetom Fractal paxl @ChanServ) 16:30:33 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@likes.smoking.and.watching.spacenight.dk) joined #forth 16:33:29 --- quit: crc ("I was using TinyIRC! Visit http://www.tinyirc.net/ for more information.") 19:45:16 --- log: started forth/03.06.23 19:45:16 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 19:45:16 --- topic: '#Forth site: http://forth.bespin.org || 'pure' linux forth coded in asm: http://isforth.clss.net || Also remember to check out Jeff Fox's articles, located at http://www.ultratechnology.com/dindex.htm' 19:45:16 --- topic: set by thin on [Sun Jun 08 10:42:15 2003] 19:45:16 --- names: list (clog jdrake Stepan fridge MalBi_ XeF4 TreyB onetom Fractal paxl @ChanServ) 19:48:09 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 20:45:16 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h00010291d357.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 20:45:31 I'm back. and I'm baad 20:48:49 And chasing sheep. 20:49:14 --- quit: onetom (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:49:14 --- quit: paxl (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:49:14 --- quit: MalBi_ (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:49:15 --- quit: ChanServ (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:49:15 --- quit: jdrake (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:49:15 --- quit: Fractal (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:49:15 --- quit: Stepan (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:49:15 --- quit: fridge (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:49:16 --- quit: XeF4 (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:49:49 Ooops. 20:50:51 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 20:50:51 --- join: jdrake (jdrake@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 20:50:51 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@likes.smoking.and.watching.spacenight.dk) joined #forth 20:50:51 --- join: fridge (~matt@dsl-203-33-161-33.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 20:50:51 --- join: MalBi_ (~jesus@p50827256.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 20:50:51 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 20:50:51 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 20:50:51 --- join: Fractal (pqzsnex@i.either.got.mad.cow.from.alberta.beef.or.strongLSD.com) joined #forth 20:50:51 --- join: paxl (paxl@modemcable110.168-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) joined #forth 20:50:51 --- mode: leguin.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 21:08:07 * TreyB wishes all a good night. 21:34:29 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 21:34:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 21:34:48 re 21:46:59 wb kc5tja :) 21:48:59 We had a rather interesting and uplifting experience today at aikido. A bird 21:48:59 (which we think was a jay of some kind) flew into the dojo, and just sat there 21:48:59 watching the whole class. Occasionally it'd squawk, and eventually flew up 21:48:59 into the shomen's rafters. After a while it flew to sensei's shoulder, and 21:48:59 just sat there for something like 30 minutes (while he was giving stretches!). 21:48:59 Later, sensei walked off the mat to get the bird something to eat, and coaxed 21:49:01 the bird to sit on the benches. He found something for it to eat (pretzels I 21:49:05 think), and went on teaching the class. 21:49:07 Well, apparently the bird got bored at one point, and decided to fly onto and 21:49:09 off the mat while we were training. It was apparently trying to dodge through 21:49:12 the people rolling, falling, etc. Quite successfully too. Has play ever been 21:49:13 observed amongst birds before? I knew birds were more intelligent than most 21:49:16 people believed them to be in the past, but are they that intelligent? I 21:49:18 believe I have seen evidence of play. 21:49:20 After class, the bird stuck around, just as sociable as ever, still eating its 21:49:22 pretzels, until sensei moved the pretzels and the bird outside. It eventually 21:49:24 flew off on its own. I felt very sad when it flew off. 21:49:25 It was a neat experience. :) 21:49:27 Sorry for the flood. But I didn't feel like re-typing everything by hand. 21:58:17 wow :) 21:58:28 I miss aikido 21:59:58 heh 22:00:07 What rank were you when you stopped? 22:01:38 I only trained for about 6 months. I could have tested once for 5th but I didn't know when I was going to move. 22:01:50 I think 5th is the first they tested for... 22:01:50 Ahh 22:01:55 * kc5tja nods 22:02:13 Our students start out at 7th kyu, and their first test is for 6th. 22:02:26 I got the hang of falling/rolling but not the manipulations. 22:02:35 * kc5tja is currently 4th kyu, though I will probably be testing for 3rd kyu by year's end. 22:03:04 that could be it. It was an adult class. I know they test the kids class for some lower ranks first. 22:03:33 Yeah, we start our kids at 9th kyu, I think. 22:04:01 And their tests are weird -- they test more often, but each test goes up "half a kyu." So it's possible to have a child that is 6.5 kyu. :) 22:04:06 It's really weird. 22:04:43 interesting :) 22:04:45 * kc5tja has been training for about three years now. 22:04:52 It really doesn't seem that long. 22:05:20 yay :) I got my forth to bootstrap with a perl script instead of my stupid assembly language interpreter. 22:05:30 * kc5tja has to upgrade his ram to 512MB pretty soon, so I can start developing my 16KB Forth environment for Linux. >:) 22:05:40 Perl script?? 22:06:14 I just wanted a quick little script to encode my text source to source tokens and dictionary. 22:06:35 Oh, so you pre-parse your source then. 22:06:42 yes. 22:06:49 * kc5tja is still using raw ASCII source for his Forth environment. 22:07:15 so the parser for bootstrapping can't be written in forth. 22:07:28 Or, at least, in itself. 22:07:30 and I preffer perl over asm for text processing. 22:07:40 * kc5tja is going to bootstrap his Forth environment for Linux using GForth (shudder). 22:07:41 right. not this forth. 22:08:02 I don't like gforth. and it's not something most people have. 22:08:08 * kc5tja nods 22:08:15 I don't mind gforth. 22:08:20 It's just very clumsy. 22:08:23 Like F-PC for me. 22:08:25 * Herkamire checks, and finds that he does have gforth installed. 22:08:31 Or Win32Forth (basically F-PC for Windows) 22:08:53 * kc5tja is really debating whether or not he wants to release another DOS version of FS/Forth though. 22:08:58 gforth bothers me, but it's probably mostly because of the documentation (lack thereof) 22:09:16 My problem with gforth is that it is wholesale NOT interactive. 22:09:24 Not like PygmyForth or ColorForth, at least. 22:09:47 I mean, you can run stuff from the CLI, compile new definitions, etc. 22:09:58 But you have to *exit* gforth to edit source, re-run gforth when you're done, INCLUDE the file, . . . it's no better than the edit/compile/test cycle in C> 22:10:02 s/C>/C./ 22:10:38 oh, and gforth tryes to print out "Error: Recieved SIGPIPE" when it looses the terminal. 22:10:47 which causes a SIGPIPE of course. 22:10:48 * kc5tja nods 22:10:59 Heheh :) 22:11:51 and if I remember correctly it doesn't die when you hit ^D 22:13:26 I vaguely remember some other stupid shit with the signal handling too. like it doesn't quit on SIGTERM or something. 22:24:18 Let me test 22:24:47 Under Linux, it does quit with ^D. 22:25:08 And it dies when killed normally (no -9 needed) 22:25:28 I can confirm that... 22:25:32 ok. maybe it was some other signal I thought it should quit on 22:25:51 I don't mind gforth either myself... 22:26:05 I just don't like gforth because of its inconvenience compared to a block-based Forth environment. 22:38:59 ahh, it's nice to delete 260 lines of asm code :) 22:39:22 my forth kernel in asm (used to bootstrap) compiles to just 1.1KB 22:40:43 Nice. 22:40:52 And people complain that RISCs are notorious for large code. :D 22:45:47 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:45:55 re 22:46:19 re Serg_Penguin 22:46:49 was Speuler seen online recently ? 22:46:59 i have some off-topic German question ;) 22:47:12 kc5tja: that's what I hear. a forth is pretty simple if you don't have to deal with text or dict lookups. 22:47:55 I haven't seen him. 22:48:31 Herkamire: All Forths have to deal with dict lookups. It's just that the choice of data structure used to do it with makes a huge impact on run-time performance. 22:48:48 As far as text is concerned, I agree, it's definitely slower than dealing with pre-parsed source. 22:49:48 there is no dictionary lookup in my interpreter. the editor/encoder does that. 22:50:15 the source is a dictionary and "source tokens" the source tokens contain 12 bits that are an index into the dictionary. 22:50:35 OK. 22:50:54 well for execute, define, and compile colors anyway. 22:52:34 I was getting SIGBUS with my bootstrapped forth for a while. I'd never seen that befor. 22:52:54 Whoops -- doesn't SIGBUS usually mean address alignment fault? 22:53:23 donno. I'd never seen it. 22:53:55 turns out I got one of the ELF headers wrong (section length) by 84 bytes. 22:54:08 hmm 22:54:53 ok. I'm done for the night. 22:55:12 OK 22:55:53 next time I'm going to try to strip out the asm code that loads my sourc/dictionary file. and get perl to put the source/dict into the elf with the kernel. 22:56:15 then I'll have the kernel down to 1K I bet :) 22:56:26 anyway. goodnight, and thanks for chatting 22:56:31 Yup 22:56:33 Thanks for listening. 22:56:34 :) 22:59:34 --- quit: Herkamire ("goodnight all") 22:59:50 Off to get something to eat, and then afterwards, I'll upgrade the RAM in my box to 512MB. 23:00:03 Heh, going from 64MB to 512MB will be a rather large jump. :D 23:07:30 --- join: anli (abc123@c-c6b470d5.018-16-67766c2.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 23:16:58 http://www.apple.com/powermac/ 23:21:06 My friend just ordered one of those the other day. 23:21:23 He hasn't gotten it just yet, but he's salivating over it. 23:23:15 I wish I had the money to afford such luxuries though. 23:23:15 Anyway, I need to get going. 23:23:15 Sleepy time for me. 23:23:15 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 23:24:06 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 23:55:21 --- join: Jim7J1AJH (~jwt@n1.dskk.co.jp) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.06.23