00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.06.20 00:01:23 --- quit: Herkamire ("way past bedtime") 01:43:33 --- quit: XeF4 ("leaving") 01:49:51 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 01:58:43 nodding off for the night... good night, or morning... 01:58:46 --- quit: geakazoid ("Leaving") 03:17:30 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 03:23:21 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 03:35:45 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:07:54 --- join: anli (abc123@c-fdb470d5.018-16-67766c2.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 04:35:50 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 04:52:48 --- join: njd (melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 05:01:41 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 05:01:58 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 05:23:28 --- quit: MalBi (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:31:40 --- join: MalBi (~MalBi@pD955A9DA.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 07:04:12 --- join: MrReach (~mrreach@209.181.43.190) joined #forth 07:04:12 --- mode: ChanServ set +o MrReach 07:07:55 --- part: MrReach left #forth 07:32:06 --- quit: Fractal (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:32:07 --- quit: Robert (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:32:07 --- quit: ianni (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:32:08 --- quit: onetom (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:32:09 --- quit: TreyB (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:32:09 --- quit: paxl (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:32:09 --- quit: ChanServ (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:32:09 --- quit: anli (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:32:10 --- quit: njd (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:32:10 --- quit: jdrake (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:33:52 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 07:33:52 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 07:33:52 --- join: paxl (paxl@modemcable110.168-130-66.que.mc.videotron.ca) joined #forth 07:33:52 --- join: ianni (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 07:33:52 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 07:33:52 --- join: Fractal (pqzsnex@i.either.got.mad.cow.from.alberta.beef.or.strongLSD.com) joined #forth 07:33:52 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 07:33:52 --- join: anli (abc123@c-fdb470d5.018-16-67766c2.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) joined #forth 07:33:52 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 07:33:52 --- join: njd (melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 07:33:52 --- join: jdrake (jdrake@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 07:33:52 --- mode: asimov.freenode.net set +oo ChanServ kc5tja 07:35:01 --- quit: njd (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:35:01 --- quit: jdrake (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 07:40:56 --- join: jdrake (jdrake@CPE00045afdd0e8-CM014410113717.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 07:41:05 --- join: njd (melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 07:41:10 --- join: tcn (~tcn@tc2-login42.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 07:48:55 --- quit: njd (Read error: 65 (No route to host)) 08:13:51 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 08:14:05 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 08:15:19 --- join: I440r (~I440r@dialup-67.29.221.231.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net) joined #forth 08:17:38 hey 08:20:28 re 08:21:29 hi 08:21:34 say, we oughtta talk about Isforth & Retroforth (and maybe kc's Forth) .. Retroforth is splitting off from the Retro kernel.. 08:21:40 that jtag shit isnt free :( 08:22:29 --- quit: ianni (" you're going to marry a series of electron pulses") 08:22:33 * kc5tja is currently having immense difficulties with FS/Forth at the moment. I can't seem to get LOAD implemented in a clean fashion. 08:23:08 No matter how I code the word parser, I *always* encounter an error condition when the input buffer has trailing white-space. 08:23:30 erm just parse up to the first white space 08:23:34 do something else for awhile :) 08:23:42 that makes the rest of it LEADING white space the next time 08:23:55 Simply adjusting the buffer length to compensate is not a solution, as most source blocks will be about 50% empty anyway. Scanning backwards through the buffer for the last non-whitespace character is expensive. 08:24:14 I never had any trouble 08:24:30 I440r: uhh . . . what does that have to do with anything? 08:25:03 lol - stop trailing white space being an error :) 08:25:06 tcn: Well, tooty fruity to you too. 08:25:17 sorry :) 08:25:25 Let's see, when parsing, we get white space, white space, white space, white space, end of buffer. OOPS! 08:25:40 Sorry, that's an error condition if I've ever seen one. 08:26:19 take a look at CMforth? 08:26:24 * kc5tja is getting annoyed with it, frankly. I've been trying to hack at this for weeks now. 08:26:43 tcn: I have PygmyForth. It's implementation of WORD is both horrific and buggy. 08:26:54 heh 08:27:14 i mnever used it, but f.s. is cool enough to fix bugs isnt he ? 08:27:16 Absolutely zero factorization, and absolutely zero tolerance for errors. It will *happily* parse beyond the end of the input buffer. 08:27:48 it's not the standard ANS version of 'word' 08:28:08 tcn: Actually, it is. 08:28:15 ANS's WORD comes from the original WORD. 08:28:44 The only thing that changed is the interpretation of 32 WORD to mean *any* white space, not just plain space. 08:29:22 But I'd think that a person with over 20 years software development experience can work his way out of this problem, but alas, he cannot. 08:29:36 And this is frustrating me beyond comprehension. 08:30:12 hmm.. yeah, in Retro I just assumed there are no tabs, for now :) 08:30:31 The problem isn't the whitespace. 08:30:39 It's the whitespace at the END of the buffer. 08:30:42 and i'm QUERYing a line at a time.. so no CR/LF.. 08:31:11 preparse it with -trailing ? 08:31:15 It stems from the fact that after parsing the last word, the end-of-buffer flag is FALSE, so it still thinks there is valid input. 08:31:21 I440r: Too expensive. 08:31:25 I already mentioned that. 08:31:27 --- join: ianni (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 08:31:31 parsing is expensive 08:32:08 rewrite word then 08:32:15 I440r: I don't have word. 08:32:23 I have ParseWord, which is a rewrite. 08:32:33 But there are only so many ways of parsing source text. 08:33:16 i440r: Have you got an ELF object/library loader yet? 08:33:41 There are two basic ways I can think of to solving this issue. One is the -trailing thing, and the other is to have the parser be responsible for refilling its input buffer. I don't really like either solution. :( 08:34:42 tcn no elf lib loader yet 08:34:48 not worked on isforth in weeks 08:34:52 need to make money 08:36:17 we've got Retroforth loading .o files.. 08:38:37 doing that is on my todo 08:38:42 but its WAY down there :) 08:39:50 we got it doing graphics too 08:40:56 Well, it's still filling a different niche than Isforth. It doesn't have vocabs.. it's more of a "debugging monitor" 08:41:20 --- quit: ianni ("configuring emacs ......") 08:41:25 :) 08:41:39 im actually not trying to paint isforth into any specific corner 08:41:50 but you have to, to some degree 08:41:51 brb 08:42:04 yeah, I noticed it's getting pretty bloated 08:42:19 cant be avoided. and the bloat is 99% optional 08:42:45 it's supposed to be kinda like F-PC, anyway.. right? 08:42:55 well. look/feel 08:43:28 and _complete_ 08:43:38 :) 08:46:09 unfortunately you have to link with libc to use svgalib or sdl.. but it's doable 08:46:46 hey, have you used /dev/vcsa0 ? 09:02:19 well i plan on an isforth svga extension 09:02:24 could care less about sdl 09:02:51 someone got it working w/ retro.. i haven't tried it 09:03:10 thats an achievement 09:03:13 Hey. 09:03:16 heh 09:04:13 btw who are jdrake, MalBi and paxl ? 09:06:11 shrug 09:07:04 anyways, you're welcome to pinch our SVGA code.. wait a few weeks till we clean it up 09:07:38 will be a while before im ready for it :) 09:07:54 neither myself nor my father are working right now so im job hunting 09:09:14 so what are you doing here? :) 09:10:30 job searching the web 09:12:43 I might be doing a little carpentry this summer :) 09:19:11 if it stops raining.. heh 09:19:16 anyway, lunch time.. 09:19:17 --- quit: tcn ("TinyIRC 1.1") 09:20:03 Well, I reviewed Pygmy Forth's parser and interpreter combination. 09:20:17 Lots and lots of BEGIN/AGAIN loops, but *no* obvious way to break out of them. 09:20:32 Still, somehow it does. 09:20:40 I don't like Forth code that relies on magic to work. 09:20:45 Any code, for that matter. 09:20:57 That's one thing I like about Chuck's code -- it's simple, to the point, and obvious. 09:21:31 Still, Pygmy's implementation does give me some amount of hope yet. 09:21:43 I can change ParseWord to return a zero-length word upon end-of-buffer. 09:22:00 Then, for the interpreter, I can create a wrapper word that does the error checking there. 09:22:43 Something like, : W ParseWord DUP IF ELSE 2DROP R> DROP THEN ; 09:22:59 This way, I can then use a BEGIN/AGAIN loop for my interpreter and compiler. 09:23:20 (compiler already uses a BEGIN/AGAIN loop, so nothing needs to be changed there.) 09:24:17 unless the magic is fully explained in the comments 09:24:26 Nope. 09:24:49 I traced through the code by hand -- *none* of the execution paths have anything like R> DROP in it to break out of an infinite loop. 09:25:04 See, this is why I'm writing my own Forth. Pygmy is just plain too shoddy. 09:25:48 The only thing is, in order to gracefully handle the input parsing requirements needed by blocks (much LESS files!), I have no choice but to forego any kind of error report about parsing beyond the end of the input buffer. :( 09:47:59 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 10:24:10 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 10:24:17 re tathi 10:37:13 Hey kc5tja... Look what I did, teacher! :) http://robert.zizi.org/pub/radio/smalltx.jpg 10:38:45 Cool. Is it a transmitter or receiver? 10:38:49 VLF I assume? 10:39:13 Transmitter. VHF. 10:39:31 Interesting. What band? 10:39:42 ~108MHz, so that I can test with my radio. 10:39:44 (duhh -- smalltx.jpg) 10:39:47 * kc5tja nods 10:39:49 :) 10:40:06 Never found out how to do the VLF reception without FET transistors/opamps. :( 10:41:44 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 10:42:30 Yeah. And I was thinking about using my bipolar amplifier, but the input impedance for that would be too high for bipolar transistors. 10:42:40 My amplifier would load the antenna down too much. 10:44:30 Guess I'll have to buy some better components... 10:45:11 Yeah. Sorry -- I tried. :) I guess this means I'll have to learn how to use FETs myself. :) 10:49:08 hi all 10:49:35 Hehe.. 10:49:36 Hi tathi 10:50:27 Robert: So it's an FM transmitter, right? 10:51:10 Yeah. 10:51:23 * Robert is thinking about what to do next. 10:52:11 When I can't build a VLF receiver *sob* 10:54:21 Well, if disconnect the microphone input, and just modulate the power supply in an on/off fashion, you have a morse code transmitter. :D 10:55:26 Won't I have to generate a constant tone for that? 10:56:07 Now it's connected to the stereo.. which means some extra Beatles music on the 3m band! 10:57:22 Robert: No. An FM transmitter generates a carrier at all times, for as long as power is applied (or the output transistor is gated, depending on the transmitter you chose. I only see one transistor in your circuit, so you'd modulate power in yours). 10:58:02 --- join: gengar (~ritchie@rsmith.ccc.ox.ac.uk) joined #forth 10:59:22 Hmm... 10:59:24 I'll tr. 10:59:27 try 10:59:53 Well, you won't be able to hear it with a normal FM receiver. 11:00:02 You need a CW or SSB receiver to hear it. 11:00:10 But it will work as a CW transmitter. :) 11:00:27 (Same with a DC-coupled, unmodulated AM transmitter, BTW). 11:02:36 Oh.. bleh. Don't have any 3m AM receiver. 11:02:49 I'll just generate morse with the PC sound card. 11:02:53 (cheating!) 11:03:07 That's called MCW, for Modulated CW. That works too. :) 11:03:11 It's so damn hard to interpret morse. :( 11:03:26 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:04:45 Yes and no. 11:04:51 It's like learning another language. 11:05:13 Damn hard. :P 11:05:31 Heh 11:06:08 I can understand ~50% of 5WPM morse code now.. that's not exactly good. 11:06:20 After.. uhm.. at least 2 hours of practicing. ;) 11:07:16 Huh?! What are you complaining about? 11:07:21 It takes most people months. 11:07:29 I'm very, very impatient. 11:07:37 Heh 11:07:48 Seriously, I know it'll take some practice. 11:07:53 That's like the people who walk into our aikido dojo, expecting to learn the art in only a couple of months. 11:08:08 But I get annoyed when I don't really come anywhere. 11:08:09 I've been there for three years, and I'm still only 4th kyu. 11:09:57 That makes very much sense for one who doesn't know what aikido dojo is. ;) 11:10:24 Dojo == training hall in Japanese. 11:10:54 Aikido == Japanese martial art, based on aikijitsu, Daito ryu, and kenjitsu, among other arts. 11:11:06 And 4th kyu? 11:11:16 4th isn't FORTH here, I guess. :) 11:11:21 In my current school, newcomers start out at 7th kyu. 11:11:35 We test progressively until we reach 1 kyu. 11:11:44 Oh, OK. 11:11:52 Then, the next test, we are promoted to 1 dan (pronounced "don"). 11:11:53 Got to go now for a while, see you! 11:12:01 Then 2 dan, etc. 11:12:08 OK, laters. 11:14:56 OK, I need to go pick up my new glasses. 11:15:04 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-afk 11:57:10 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 11:58:06 man I wish I could get payed to code on my forth. I stayed up 3 hours later than usual last night working on it. 11:58:18 you would have to pay me a heck of a lot to do that with my programming for work. 12:46:26 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 13:03:24 --- join: crc (~crc@ACAF2B86.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 13:17:48 Is there any equivalent to the "main" function in a forth program? 13:20:35 You could define one, but it's no different than any other word 13:22:50 What puzzles me is how files are put together, I have a whole directory with .scr files, I must get more experience before I understand this... 13:23:20 --- nick: kc-afk -> kc5tja 13:24:17 anli: Forth has no concept of "main." 13:24:36 ok 13:24:42 anli: When you LOAD a block or INCLUDE a file, it interprets the contents of that block or file as if you had typed it raw on the keyboard. 13:25:09 There is no easy way to see which of all this files that is the core file then, I suppose 13:25:16 anli: Thus, to get a program to execute when you LOAD/INCLUDE it, the (close to the) last word in the block/file should be a call to the program you just compiled. 13:25:16 Besides inspecting file sizes 13:25:28 ok 13:25:47 So, for example: : hw ." Hello world!" ; hw 13:26:09 Is ." a word in that sentence? 13:26:24 Notice how I call hw after I define it. That's basically how a self-running program in Forth is structured (give or take; of course, it all depends on the program's exact requirements). 13:26:28 Yes. 13:26:40 It prints the string up to the next " character. 13:26:49 So hw is not a word then 13:26:54 oops 13:26:55 sorry 13:26:58 : defines hw as a word. 13:27:00 Hello is not a word then 13:27:05 hw is a word, of course 13:27:06 Correct. 13:27:08 hey 13:27:16 kc5tja: nice 13:27:25 re 13:27:45 * kc5tja is getting increasingly frustrated with glasses retailers. 13:27:46 what's up guys? 13:28:01 Do you guys use gfort? 13:28:02 My new set of glasses are far worse to wear than my previous set of glasses ever was. :( 13:28:03 gforth 13:28:14 I use pforth 13:28:21 anli: Sometimes. I'm writing my own Forth environment for x86 Linux though. 13:28:21 kc5tja: Are you like me? I have had around 10 glasses 13:28:27 ok 13:28:33 I just started writing one for win32 ;) 13:28:40 I use IsForth and RetroForth 13:28:41 anli: -7.5 or so. 13:28:43 ok 13:28:44 hehe 13:29:01 My Forth follows the cmForth/ColorForth philosophy of utmost minimalism. 13:29:02 I have not found the ultimate pdf yet, however 13:29:25 Which is the ultimate newcomer examples on everything-explaining everything before examplifying it pdf? 13:29:46 anli: I'm sorry -- I just don't understand your question. 13:29:49 heh 13:29:59 I want a tutorial that is written by a good author 13:30:08 anli: So does everyone else. :) 13:30:18 For a modern Forth environment, it doesn't exist. 13:30:27 The gforth tutorial examplifies things that are not covered yet, which is next to useless 13:30:33 ok 13:30:43 But for Forth-79-compliant environments, there's an all-time classic, called Starting Forth, by Leo Brodie. 13:30:48 yeah 13:30:49 anli: sit on IRC and ask questions. 13:30:57 a7r: yeah :) 13:30:59 anli: Well, sometimes it is necessary to do that. 13:31:17 So this is not the channel where you say RTFM then? 13:31:29 The FM doesn't exist. :) 13:31:33 haha 13:31:36 That's the problem. 13:31:50 If you guide me through the jungle, I will write a FM that rocks 13:31:50 And I feel, more than anything else, that is the singular reason why Forth is not used more often in the world today. 13:32:26 anli: Well, the problem is that each Forth environment tends to be unique in some manner. Not all tutorials are applicable to all Forth environments. 13:32:26 But... then this channel will also start say RTFM ;) 13:32:34 Unless to restrain your tutorials to strictly ANSI words. 13:32:42 kc5tja: But there are some basic similarities, I suppose 13:32:47 Yes. 13:33:34 The problem is that readers more often than not will skip right over any verbiage that reads, "Some elements of this tutorial may not apply to your own Forth. Please understand the general principles involved, and look to your own Forth's documentation for more specific examples, if this is the case." 13:33:56 But I can reiterate that thing on every specific command 13:34:04 Every command that is not general 13:34:21 Most so-called "software engineers" today really aren't. They're nothing but integrators with at best software technician-level skills. Those are the types of people you need to watch out for. 13:34:24 I could actually have a set of symbols for every command that each denotes an environment 13:35:37 Forth, more than anything else, is a philosophy. 13:35:44 The specific language is secondary. 13:37:26 it's cool, and can be annoying if you're just learning. 13:37:33 heh 13:37:37 especially if you're used to the way everyone else does things. 13:37:52 but I can honestly say, it fucked up the way I program C. :P 13:38:12 I'm constantly worried now about the code my compiler is going to generate for a given piece of source. 13:45:33 Hehe 13:45:42 Learning Forth has actually improved my C code quality. 13:45:52 But, I still prefer Forth for everything I want to do. 13:45:55 thats cool 13:46:18 it improved my quality.. but it totally fucked my existing technique. 13:46:22 It is my opinion that people are learning about computers the wrong way. 13:46:32 I've started checking the assembly output. 13:46:39 They're starting with the highest level languages, and then working towards increasing levels of detail. 13:46:41 which is a good change.. but I didn't used to do it. 13:46:56 This is wrong: people should learn with bits, bytes, and machine language, and then work their way up. 13:47:19 there's a problem with that, which I learned trying to teach my little brother to program 13:47:29 the average man wants instant gratification. 13:47:53 I was trying to teach loops.. and all I got was ``how do I go from this to getting pictures ont he display?' 13:48:13 Well, it's like learning history by what George W. Bush Jr. is pushing on us with his empty rhetoric. 13:48:54 But I digress. 13:48:57 I demonstrated turning on an LED with a microcontroller, and all I got aws ``dude, what's the point of that?'' 13:50:03 a7r: Well, when you rock his house with your custom-made boost controller, then you can explain to him the significance of that single LED. 13:50:26 kc5tja: haha, 'when you can snatch the pebble from my hand!' 13:50:33 Seriously. 13:51:08 People don't believe me when I say that Forth is a philosophy, a tao, a do, a way. I equated Forth to Jazz music, and Forth programmers to Jazz musicians. The similarities are too uncanny. 13:51:25 yeah 13:51:35 As an aikido practitioner, I can appreciate directly Jeff Fox's talks about the subject, as he himself is also an aikido practitioner, and speaks in eastern metaphors a lot. 13:53:28 I found Dr. Ting's comparison of Forth to Zen very fascinating. :) 13:55:12 yeah, I liked that article. 14:03:53 --- join: thin (~thin@stu04154.cariboo.bc.ca) joined #forth 14:03:53 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 14:04:41 hi all 14:06:43 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving") 14:10:00 re thin 14:16:15 --- quit: crc ("I was using TinyIRC! Visit http://www.tinyirc.net/ for more information.") 14:24:46 * Robert returns. 14:29:39 L 14:29:40 O 14:29:41 W 14:29:42 F 14:29:43 A 14:29:43 T 14:29:50 what do we got?! LOW FAT! 14:29:54 COMPUTING! 14:30:03 * thin cheers & jumps around like madly! 14:30:14 * thin cheers for his ppoor grammar! 14:30:33 LOW FAT COMPUTING 14:31:53 Cheerleader thin... good evening. 14:40:09 --- quit: thin (".") 15:14:11 Man, I step away from the computer just once, and look what all happens. Hrmph. 15:14:52 --- join: njd (melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 15:16:03 kc5tja: Yeah, don't leave the kids alone. 15:16:10 :) 15:16:26 At least he's trolling about Forth... 15:16:52 I had to go off and get some laundry in the washer, then was hacking some more on FS/Forth. 15:17:00 I suppose I should have stayed around, eh? 15:19:06 Hehe, right. 15:19:19 Hmm.. I'm actually getting better at interpreting morse! 15:19:28 * Robert looks at the miracle. 15:30:21 hehehe 15:43:55 Hey, sweet. 15:44:54 Chuck Moore released his UDP/IP code. I just wish I could view the source -- it's in raw ColorForth format. I need to find a way to transplant blocks from his image to the image I'm using, without somehow crashing the environment. :) 15:47:06 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:01:47 Is there a short description on every predefined word somewhere? 16:02:27 For ANSI Forth, yes. 16:02:32 The ANS standard document. 16:02:41 Specifically, chapter 6. 16:02:49 Wonder if I am man to read it... 16:03:03 It can be confusing at times, but generally is pretty easy to read. 16:03:42 Actually, it was nicely formatted information 16:04:29 : foo ( u -- n) <--- is the commend necessary? 16:04:42 oops, add a space before the ) 16:05:42 The comment is just that -- comment. :) It has nothing to do with the operation of the program at all. 16:05:45 It's just a convention. 16:06:04 Personally, I rarely use them, as my program's operation is readily apparent from context. 16:06:40 ah, ok, its a comment, and nothing else then? 16:06:49 * kc5tja nods 16:07:21 * kc5tja is reviewing Chuck's UDP/IP code. Very interesting stuff. 16:25:53 --- quit: anli (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:36:37 --- quit: gengar ("[BX] *PH34R MY BITCHX-NESS!* BOW TO ME!") 16:41:09 anli : And BTW, you wouldn't have to add a space before the ) 16:41:23 ( is a word that parses the input stream until it finds a ) 16:41:45 As such, : blah ( blah -- blah) stuff ; 16:41:48 Is valid 16:53:56 * kc5tja sighs -- and once again, the washer is taking so long that my gi won't be dry by the time I need to get to aikido. :( 16:54:09 * kc5tja really must get that washer fixed. 16:55:46 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 16:55:47 hey 16:56:44 re 16:56:57 a7r: Got ahold of some UDP/IP code that Chuck wrote for ColorForth. 16:57:12 It's pretty minimalistic, but it's **INCREDIBLY** easy to use. 16:57:18 kc5tja: awesome,. is it available for me to look at? 16:57:45 Do you have some variant of Chuck's ColorForth? If not, then no -- the blocks are in ColorForth binary format. 16:58:09 oh, no I don't. 16:58:13 can you dump it to HTML? 17:00:05 Not right now, but I will after I get back from aikido. 17:00:11 werd, thanks. 17:00:22 how many blocks is it? 17:00:27 pfft!!! 17:00:34 I think, maybe, 4. 17:00:41 werd, that's what I'd expect. 17:00:41 There's one block for implementing interrupts. 17:00:50 with what interface? 17:01:00 There's another block for talking to the Realtek 8139B chip (also works with other variants of the 8139 apparently) 17:01:25 Another two blocks for creating IPv4 and IPv6 frames. 17:01:30 Another block for UDP frames. 17:01:36 The rest are bloody applications. :) 17:02:11 I'm curious to know why IPv6 code exists, since it's not in Chuck's style to write code that doesn't strictly need to be written. 17:02:25 None of the applications seem to use it. 17:04:10 nod. 17:04:44 Chuck also seems to have his whole house wired into Forth too. He apparently has "drivers" for his IR remote control, which drives a DVD player, a Sony stereo system, etc. 17:05:42 At any rate, it's really neat. 17:05:53 sounds cool. 17:05:55 * kc5tja wonders how difficult it'd be to write a TCP protocol for it. 17:06:42 I've been hacking on my stack enough to almost get TCP running.. it'd probably take half a day to implement it. 17:08:31 Heh 17:08:40 Well, that's what I said about my LOAD command. It's going on a week now. 17:09:06 I'm going to be retrofitting a lot of code to better implement LOAD this coming weekend though. 17:09:20 Lots of changes coming around, and some nifty features just fall out of the design. 17:09:41 Like, the source is actually more readable. ParseWord no longer returns an error at the end of buffer -- it returns a zero-length word. 17:09:51 Another word, "Required", does the error checking. 17:10:06 So if a word MUST have an in-source operand (e.g., CREATE, :, etc), then it'd be written like this: 17:10:29 : CREATE ParseWord Required ...etc... ; 17:10:55 Basically, Required will ABORT if the supplied word is zero-length. Otherwise, it'll just fall through. 17:11:19 : Required DUP 0= ABORT" Word expected" ; 17:11:47 This change will enable me to write more intelligent looping constructs inside of INTERPRET and LOAD, which lets them coexist quite peacefully. 17:12:10 The next step is to get ParseWord to grab the current source block's address before actually parsing. That *should* do it. 17:12:18 But, only time will tell. 18:03:21 Aikido time. 18:03:29 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 18:09:24 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ip-207-198-223-216.nyc.ny.FCC.NET) joined #forth 18:09:24 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 18:10:04 hiya all 18:13:20 Hi :) 18:15:05 hiya Robert 18:15:20 seen mur, i440r, or futhin lately? 18:18:32 Yep. 18:18:41 I440r was here earlier. 18:18:50 futhin trolled a little a few hours ago. 18:18:53 Not sure about mur. 18:19:00 hmm...thanks 18:23:20 well, gotta go...bye all 18:23:45 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 19:14:50 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:33:59 --- quit: njd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:52:40 --- join: Calm (~Calm@24.66.121.31) joined #forth 19:57:01 --- quit: Calm () 21:07:32 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 21:07:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 21:08:50 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-food 22:17:27 --- nick: kc-food -> kc5tja 22:23:44 a7r: Hey, I'm going to work on converting those blocks to HTML. 22:31:37 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 22:31:40 hi 22:33:40 re Serg_Penguin 22:35:11 what do you do nowdays ? 22:35:27 * Serg_Penguin speed up my news sucker by 2 times 22:36:36 What do you mean what do I do? :) 22:37:23 write, solder, design ;)) 22:40:00 Well, currently, I'm relaxing after a good workout at aikido. 22:40:28 But in a bit, drowsiness pending, I'll return to working on FS/Forth. 22:40:55 * kc5tja is also making an HTML page of Chuck's Ethernet code for a7r. 22:41:53 how good you are at web mastering ? 22:43:22 Depends on the requirements of the website. 22:53:54 a7r: Done. Not sure if you're floating about or not. I can tar/gzip it for you if you want. 22:57:25 can you make cool design w/ CSS only ? 22:57:32 * Serg_Penguin is working on this skill 22:58:00 * kc5tja nods 22:58:09 I can, but I generally don't like to get all fancy. 22:58:22 I like simple, clean, to-the-point web pages. 22:58:45 For an example of a site of my making, check out my prototype site: http://www.mysticone.com/falvosoft/index.xhtml 22:59:32 (Internet Explorer 5.5 and earlier probably won't display xhtml -- Phoenix, Firebird, or Mozilla strongly recommended. If I can't solve this problem cleanly, then I'll just rename them to .html instead of .xhtml) 23:05:43 * kc5tja is going to rewrite the cf2html.c code in Forth though (GForth). I would like to customize the output that cf2html.c is producing. 23:09:20 brb 23:16:20 back 23:24:53 Going to bed. 23:24:59 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 23:25:03 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.06.20