00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.06.18 00:30:47 Bedtime for me. 00:31:19 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 00:35:57 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 01:03:38 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 02:29:21 --- part: Jim7J1AJH left #forth 02:46:33 --- quit: jesus (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02:56:12 --- join: jesus (~jesus@pD955A41E.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 03:15:09 --- quit: Herkamire ("ok, the night has passed. I'll sleep for a bit I guess.") 03:39:58 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 03:40:11 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 04:07:29 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 04:08:19 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 04:50:46 --- join: crc (~crc@AC9C61C3.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 05:10:58 --- join: Serg_Penguin (Serg_Pengu@212.34.52.140) joined #forth 05:11:27 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 05:58:09 --- join: tcn (~tcn@tc1-login32.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 06:38:27 --- join: karingo (karingo@92.portland-15-20rs.or.dial-access.att.net) joined #forth 06:50:31 --- quit: karingo (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:50:32 --- quit: onetom (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:50:32 --- quit: ianni (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 06:50:39 --- part: tcn left #forth 06:51:07 --- join: karingo (karingo@92.portland-15-20rs.or.dial-access.att.net) joined #forth 06:51:07 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 06:51:07 --- join: ianni (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 07:09:47 --- quit: karingo () 07:14:02 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:15:35 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 07:43:05 --- part: crc left #forth 09:09:24 --- quit: onetom (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:09:24 --- quit: ianni (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:09:49 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 09:09:49 --- join: ianni (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 10:06:58 --- join: osh (xru52729fj@1Cust98.tnt4.vancouver.bc.da.uu.net) joined #forth 10:07:37 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-189-104.phnet.fi) joined #forth 10:13:13 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 10:13:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 10:13:52 Hi kc5tja :) 10:14:05 ed 10:14:08 oops. 10:14:36 Howdy 10:14:42 * kc5tja just woke up. 10:15:32 Morning 10:15:48 we wish to wish you most pleasant morning 10:15:57 Heh 10:15:57 ": awaken make-coffee drink-coffee wait-for-it-to-kick-in ;" 10:16:07 make-coffee: Undefined word or number 10:16:15 drink-coffee: Undefined word or number 10:16:33 In fact, ANY word with 'coffee' in it is undefined word or number. 10:16:38 * kc5tja abhores coffee. 10:16:50 http://www.tmcm.com 10:17:05 * kc5tja much prefers tea. 10:20:14 was Postscript inspired by Forth? 10:27:43 Yes 10:30:43 did you know that someone created an alien language based on Forth? 10:30:46 http://www.langmaker.com/fith.htm 10:30:53 It's called "Fith" 10:31:03 sort of LIFO Klingon ;-) 10:36:15 "may the Forth be with you" ... BBL 10:36:15 --- part: osh left #forth 10:36:28 Actually, yes, I've known about that. :) 10:53:40 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 11:30:35 weird 11:30:37 ack 11:30:39 sorry 11:30:56 you abhor coffee eh 11:30:58 i love bot 11:30:59 h 11:31:04 Well, pfft...YOU'RE weird TOO. :D 11:31:26 no, weird, re: fith 11:31:31 I dont get why people make up imaginary lagnauge :) 11:31:55 Because it's fun, and sometimes, because it's practical 11:33:16 practical for what? 11:34:17 Well, it helps reveal the mental processes/requirements that goes into evolving a language. 11:34:35 It condenses millions of years of linguistic evolution into a few months, maybe, if that. 11:35:21 Esperanto is practical in that it's the only so-called artificial language that can adequately compete with any of today's spoken languages. Hence, it's practical for communication between two groups of people. 11:35:53 And finally, even languages designed purely for entertainment (e.g., Klingon, Elvish, etc.) need to abide by linguistic rules to maintain the suspension of disbelief. 11:36:55 true 11:37:00 esperanto sounds very interseting 11:37:32 As many times as I learned Esperanto, I've forgotten it. :) 11:38:14 The first time I learned it, I could fully participate in an Esperanto newsgroup (I forgot the name) in only a month of studying how to read/write Esperanto. It was an incredibly easy language to learn how to read and write. 11:38:39 How to speak it is another matter; I don't have anyone else to practice with, so while Esperanto literate, I'm deaf and dumb to the language. :) 11:40:17 Oh well, I should get back to some coding. I'm going to hack on FS/Forth for DOS for a while... 11:41:26 good luck 11:41:34 im decomposing a fortran program 11:41:43 plus side: get to rewrite it to be sane, and in something else :) 11:43:26 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 11:49:20 hey 12:10:57 re -- hacking FS/Forth. 12:23:13 --- join: thin (~thin@stu04159.cariboo.bc.ca) joined #forth 12:23:13 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 12:23:19 hi kctja 12:23:21 oops, kc5tja 12:24:14 ehe 12:24:17 * kc5tja is hacking FS/Forth 12:29:32 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:40:04 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 12:41:04 hola 12:43:45 hi a7r 12:43:54 sup thin? 12:46:09 changing my resume, job hunting, contemplating the 2-year CAD/CAM program at the local college 12:48:43 --- join: gilbertdeb (~gilbert@24.53.192.74) joined #forth 12:48:47 terve gilbertdeb 12:48:54 terve mur 12:48:55 :) 12:49:20 does anyone know here have some wizardly powers for recovering data from a failed harddrive? 12:50:10 what os? 12:50:28 it used to be some variation of windows. 12:50:32 Xp I think. 12:50:48 there's probably some applications out there.. i have spinrite but i'm not sure if it recovers data 12:51:06 it made some godawful sounds when I plugged it into this box. 12:51:29 "SpinRite prevents mass storage systems from crashing or warns the user of pending catastrophe. If SpinRite is not used until after a crash, it skillfully " 12:51:29 I'm running linux and I thought lde might do it. 12:51:39 "it skillfully picks up all the pieces, recovers your data, and puts everything back together again. " 12:58:12 my bootstrapping is comming along. 12:58:31 what bootstrapping? 12:58:37 btw whats new in #forth? 12:58:53 gilbertdeb: have you seen the #forth site lately? 12:59:23 everyone: USE TEH F0RUMZ!!! 13:00:26 bootstrapping is when you use a piece of software to compile it's self. 13:00:41 I've almost got my native PPC forth bootstrapping. 13:01:19 It spits out an ELF, which starts up and runs all the compiled code. but the editor crashes when I type a word or number 13:02:16 --- quit: thin ("bye") 13:02:27 what about non-words/non-numbers? 13:02:36 like space or ` etc ? 13:03:22 my color change tokens don't crash it 13:08:02 gilbertdeb: Hmm...FS/Forth is almost done. Still hacking in FS/Forth to get LOAD implemented. Once that's done, I can probably say that it's largely complete. All that would truely remain would be MARK, EMPTY, and maybe, UNMARK. 13:08:05 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:08:14 Well, I should say, the DOS version of FS/Forth is almost done. :) 13:08:19 After that's done, the Linux version is next. 13:08:43 Which is a whole new ball of wax for me, because I will have to learn the INT 80h API that Linux exposes. 13:10:40 kewl. 13:10:52 I wish I could say something #forth related. 13:10:58 but school has been keeping me running. 13:12:34 School will conquer me this coming fall semester, so I'm getting all my schitt together now. :) 13:14:13 hehe :) my word-not-found thing works :) it just goes to hell when it does find it :) 13:14:59 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81874.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:16:24 if only I could convince my dean to let me take 10 classes, I'll be done this fall! 13:19:42 Hehe 13:19:51 My academic career is only just beginning, really. :) 13:21:08 bah, I want mine to be over. 13:21:28 for my next course, I'm gonna get a Masters in Liberal Arts or somesuch. 13:21:52 then I'll become a well read beach bum :D 13:24:36 My goals are set a little bit higher than that. 13:24:43 * kc5tja is going for a Physics degree. 13:26:36 what about beach bumming? 13:32:32 I have no interest in beach bumming. 13:33:11 tsk tsk tsk. 13:33:22 you've gotta play in the sand until you're 90 :D 13:38:00 No thanks. :) 13:38:37 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 13:38:38 hey 13:39:05 Hi 13:39:05 kc5tja: that makes sense. 13:39:12 you have enough fun already it seems :D 13:44:22 --- join: tcn (~tcn@tc1-login32.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 13:58:06 --- quit: tcn ("TinyIRC 1.1") 14:12:42 --- quit: wossname ("^______-") 14:13:00 --- quit: gilbertdeb ("<--- off to play in the dirt.") 15:04:09 YEEESssssssssssssssssssssssssssss 15:04:31 Somebody got their PowerPC Forth environment to boot, I think. 15:04:47 yes yes yes :) 15:04:51 bootstrap that is 15:05:21 it writes out an ELF with the kernel it just compiled, and the source, dictionary and data. 15:06:37 unfortunately, you have to then open the ELF in a hex editor and change one byte :) 15:07:08 but it WORKS! ha ha ha 15:07:20 Hehehe :) 15:09:57 * Herkamire grins evilly 15:10:59 that last byte is going DOWN 15:10:59 how evily? 15:11:54 like a small buy who has just thought of something extremely clever and extremely naughty 15:12:34 s/buy/boy/ 15:14:06 extr cle + naugh = blonde professor? 15:15:37 Herkamire hah :) 15:22:32 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:29:40 mur: What? 15:29:49 nm 15:29:53 nothing important :) 15:40:14 all tests passed... oh yess :) And I got the last byte correct too :) 16:16:58 Congrats :) 16:17:31 thanks :) 16:17:36 now I'm documenting :) 16:18:25 it seems I wrote at least some of the documentation for the assembler before I wrote the assembler. (the future tense gives it away, (besides it being wrong in places.)) 16:23:16 Heh 16:23:57 * kc5tja is giving up on writing an assembler for the Linux version of FS/Forth. 16:24:21 I'm just going to compile opcodes numerically via , and C, via COMPILER words. 16:25:30 an x86 assembler sounds like a major pain 16:26:27 You can say that again. :) 16:26:35 I wrote a 16-bit assembler, and it works. 16:26:42 But it's a lot of code, and I'm not prepared to do that again. :) 16:26:50 Not unless I really need it. 16:28:12 my PPC assembler is about 3K 16:28:39 and that's running on a kernel of about 8 words. so it includes some common definitions like: dup drop swap 16:33:05 My x86 assembler isn't much better compiled -- it is something like 4.5K. 16:33:21 But still, x86's opcodes are horribly difficult to manage and get right. 16:33:49 I do still have one bug in it, relating to SAR and SHR -- they both produce ROL as an opcode, for reasons I can't yet explain. 16:34:15 I mean 3K of source (with using register names like r_tos r_here etc) 16:34:17 Hence, my original implementation of 2/ was producing the same results (usually) as 2*. 16:34:32 Yeah, my source is substantially bigger. 16:34:49 Precisely because of the crap I need to go through with arranging x86 opcode bytes. 16:35:08 And this is an RPN assembler; I shiver every time I think about the idea of writing an infix assembler. :( 16:35:23 heh :) 16:35:51 However, I've since gotten used to just hardcoding opcode bytes in COMPILER words. I like it. I think this is truely the way to go for the linux version. This way, I can leave the assembler out of the system until I *really* need it. 16:40:23 ppc assembler is pretty easy. Here's a bit of it: 16:40:27 : ,addi 14 ,5_5_16 ; : ,add 266 31 ,5_5_5 ; : ,andi 28 ,l5_5_16 ; : ,bc 16 ,5_5_16 ; : ,cmp 0 31 ,5_5_5 ; : ,cmpi 11 ,5_5_16 ; : ,cmpwi 11 opcode |16 |52 a, ; 16:41:23 tathi told me that it was easy to write a PPC assembler, but I din't really believe him untill I tried it. :) 16:41:35 Well, it helps when your operation names have their addressing modes all encoded right in them. :) 16:42:19 With x86, you need to get this information from the supplied operands and form modr/m bytes and SIB bytes, et. al., because there are just too many addressing modes to support. 16:43:15 32-bit instructions give an effective 65536 unique addressing modes (well, OK, 32768 if you consider a,(b) and (b),a to be the same). 16:43:29 16-bit instructions still gives 256 combinations. 16:43:38 And this is for a single byte of a single class of instructions. 16:43:42 * kc5tja hates x86 :) 16:43:46 I always have. 16:44:00 * kc5tja much prefers the 68000, 6502/65816, etc. 16:44:15 For RISC, I prefer MIPS, but PowerPC is so close that I can be quite happy with it. 16:47:21 you mean lwz and lwzx. 16:47:40 those are the only addressing modes I can think of 16:48:04 PowerPC has 4 addressing modes. 16:48:07 immediate 16:48:09 absolute 16:48:12 register indirect 16:48:22 register indirect with register index 16:48:44 The third one should read, "register indirect with immediate offset" 16:48:53 It's trivial to encode those addressing modes. 16:49:09 yup 16:49:10 And, to make matters even better, you only need to deal with those in the load/store instructions. 16:49:26 can you give an example of immediate and absolute? 16:49:35 Not so with x86. :) *EVERY* instruction has memory forms, and not all instructions are consistent about which addressing modes are permitted. 16:49:47 lw r0,$DEADBEEF ; This is immediate 16:50:08 bl SomeSubroutine ; This is absolute 16:50:37 sw r3,r0,16 ; Register indirect with immediate offset 16:50:51 lw r2,32 16:51:01 sw r3,r0,r2 ; register indirect with register offset 16:51:14 Those are the four addressing modes which PowerPC possesses. 16:51:41 lw isn't in my reference. you mean li? 16:52:24 I believe some assemblers automatically convert a lw-type instruction to li if it's given an immediate value as a programmer convenience. It was used that way in my PowerPC 601 book, at least. 16:52:38 oh cool. 16:52:47 Not sure if it's condoned now-a-days though. 16:53:01 The 601 might have inherited that use from the old RS/6000 POWER processor syntax. 16:53:04 I didn't know there were ppc assemblers that would compile different opcodes for the same mnemonic 16:53:29 oooop I gotta go 16:53:38 Me too actually -- aikido in 30 minutes. :) 16:53:46 * kc5tja didn't realize how fast time flew. 16:53:56 --- quit: Herkamire ("laters") 17:24:18 --- quit: mur ("MURR!") 17:31:02 --- join: Jim7J1AJH (~jwt@n1.dskk.co.jp) joined #forth 17:31:31 Hi Jim 17:32:39 Good morning. 17:40:03 --- quit: kc5tja (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:03:15 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@pc1edn1d.ppp.FCC.NET) joined #forth 18:03:16 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 18:03:26 hiya all...will be brief 18:03:29 Hi :0 18:03:33 er, :) I mean 18:03:50 hiya Robert :0) (j/k) 18:05:43 gotta go...bye all 18:05:55 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 20:11:13 --- quit: Fractal (Connection timed out) 20:46:02 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 23:08:37 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 23:08:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 23:08:54 Hey-low. 23:09:22 --- join: jdamisch (jdamisch@207.191.240.241) joined #forth 23:10:08 hi 23:12:18 bye 23:12:19 --- quit: jdamisch (Client Quit) 23:27:27 OK. 23:38:58 --- quit: kc5tja ("[x]chat") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.06.18