00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.06.13 00:00:14 --- quit: sifbot (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:00:53 --- join: sifbot (~sifforth@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 00:00:53 Type sifbot: (or /msg sifbot to play in private) 00:44:20 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 00:49:53 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 00:49:55 hey 02:27:27 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 02:45:35 --- quit: a7r_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:56:41 --- quit: sifbot (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 02:57:17 --- join: sifbot (~sifforth@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 04:25:18 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 05:00:15 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 06:14:53 what do does> do ?? 06:16:10 Uhm.. 06:16:20 It defines the action of a created word. 06:16:24 Example: 06:16:59 : create-hello create does> ." Hello" cr ; ok 06:16:59 create-hello hello ok 06:16:59 hello Hello 06:16:59 ok 06:17:47 ugh 06:17:48 :( 06:17:51 What= 06:17:57 Something unclear? :) 06:18:11 do it siply take the word after the word( function ) to remplace it for the does> ?? 06:18:14 like 06:18:18 create-hello hello 06:18:19 make 06:18:33 create-hello create hello ." Hello" cr; 06:20:17 Robert: please :) 06:20:21 Hmm.. 06:21:08 In create-hello, a new word is created. Its name is taken from the next word in the input stream after create-hello (i.e. hello). 06:21:28 Then its function is set to the code after does> 06:22:32 ok.. so create/does> make new word.. Uhmm I think I understant 06:23:37 another useless question: what ',' do ?? 06:23:41 I mean the , :) 06:23:58 It compiles a word to the heap. 06:24:07 At the location of the dictionary pointer. 06:24:17 (Might get the terms wrong here, I'm a bit of a newbie myself) 06:24:35 Robert: I'm a master at ASM but that it hard :) 06:24:38 but why 06:24:42 create aname; 06:24:43 compiles implies some sort of transformation 06:24:45 4 , 06:25:00 it just allocates a word at HERE and moves the at the top of the stack there 06:25:01 'store' 4 in aname ?? 06:25:13 Yes, in its word body. 06:25:25 Ok.. good 06:25:40 create foo ok 06:25:40 4 , ok 06:25:40 foo @ . 4 ok 06:25:53 (the last 4 is the output) 06:25:56 gooood 06:26:04 Robert: I know :) 06:26:21 I'm a newb but I'm ending the forth primer so I know some base :) 06:26:26 :D 06:26:35 Well, it's hard to see from here. 06:26:49 * paxl realise that he have to go to work in 4 min :( 06:26:51 So you're going from assembly to Forth? 06:26:54 Aww. :( 06:27:17 Robert: from Z80 asm to Forth (( to be more presise I want to Write and forth in z80 )) 06:27:27 I'll Never abandon my little z80 :) 06:27:29 too cute 06:27:32 :D 06:27:47 I'm writing a Forth system for my AVR chip. 06:28:06 Also cute. Never really used any z80 computer, went from x86 assembly to Forth. 06:28:43 x86 asm is not an asm but an complied language ( exemple: you have mult you have compare without the accumulator.. :) 06:29:02 Right, it's a bit messed up. 06:29:04 I learned enough asm on x86 to make some little thing 06:29:05 but x86en actually support those ops on arbitrary registers 06:29:07 Going out now, see you! 06:29:15 Robert: seeya :) 06:29:33 XeF4: that why I love z80 06:30:06 5 16 bit reg 1 8 bit 1 8bit flag 06:30:06 yeah, if only the memory access ops would be so orthogonal :\ 06:30:18 hehe :) 06:30:22 bahh I'm out 06:30:27 work work work :( 06:30:33 I'll talk to you l8ter 06:31:33 have a nice day all 06:45:43 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:53:32 tathi: have you shouted at herkamire about sifbot? 06:56:00 XeF4: hmm, no, I completely forgot. 06:58:08 OK, I just e-mailed him. 06:58:47 that way I can't possibly forget again ;) 06:59:37 XeF4: have you read Jef Raskin's book? 07:00:07 no 07:00:15 but I've read a few articles of his 07:00:35 I just got a copy yesterday. Interesting. 07:01:09 But I think some of what he's suggesting is probably impossible. 07:01:28 So now I'm kind of curious what other people think about it. 07:01:41 though one shouldn't judge a book by its cover/author, I imagined he would advicate something a lot like the Canon Cat interface 07:01:50 was/am I right? =) 07:02:01 yeah :) 07:02:58 which is a lot like emacs but without the morbid obesity 07:03:12 heh 07:04:37 hmm, it didn't sound much like emacs 07:05:14 But it sounds as if he still likes a lot of the stuff he did with the Canon Cat 07:06:25 s/emacs/my idealized picture of what emacs would be like without all the ideosyncracities/ 07:06:34 ah. 07:10:37 I played with his Mac/Python editor prototype a bit. Mostly very nice, few keypresses, no modes, etc. 07:11:21 but then to get text to have different properties, you have to hold down the command key and type "BOLD", "ITALICS", or whatever. 07:11:52 which, while it may be easy to remember, is _way_ slower than I'm willing to put up with. 07:12:28 yes, but still preferable to using the mouse 07:12:33 so I'm just not too sure about whether his ultimate goals are achievable. ;) 07:13:02 yeah, but I don't use the mouse, I hit Ctrl-B or Ctrl-I. 07:13:04 at least, I have often typed some loong circumlocutions to avoid moving my right hand 80cm to the mouse 07:13:21 I've never used the mouse much. 07:13:36 There was about 6 months where I didn't have one attached to my computer 07:19:32 I only use the mouse when some braindead application I'm using requires it 07:20:28 anyhow ->food,etc 07:20:58 laters 07:22:14 --- quit: tathi (""back to MacOS (grr...why doesn't Mac-on-Linux work on SMP machines?)"") 07:24:22 * Robert is back. 07:28:44 --- join: tcn (~tcn@tc1-login9.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 07:31:11 --- quit: tcn (Client Quit) 08:34:19 --- quit: Fractal (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:34:23 --- join: Fractal (gbox@i.either.got.mad.cow.from.alberta.beef.or.strongLSD.com) joined #forth 08:56:59 --- quit: fridge (asimov.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 08:57:04 --- join: fridge (~matt@dsl-203-33-160-181.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 08:57:24 --- quit: sifbot (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:02:32 --- join: sifbot (~sifforth@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:02:32 Type sifbot: (or /msg sifbot to play in private) 09:37:09 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 09:37:09 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 09:48:59 Hi kc5tja 10:04:50 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 10:04:57 --- quit: sifbot () 10:05:13 sifbot is no more 10:05:20 Awwww. :( 10:05:50 It needs to be documented and/or extended 10:07:26 excellent 10:07:50 (re: sifbot is no more) 10:08:22 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 10:09:31 XeF4: :) 10:09:34 Hi a7r_ 10:10:14 I think a forth bot (if there even should be such a thing) should retain definitions 10:10:46 A Forth bot is the ideal playmate! 10:12:13 Robert: hola 10:12:23 re Robert 10:12:44 hey kc5tja 10:12:52 oops -- didn't see you. :) 10:12:55 re a7r_ 10:12:56 :) 10:13:09 --- nick: a7r_ -> a7r 10:13:36 kc5tja: I found another person interested in a Forth-based router.. he works for a company doing network gear testing, for magazine reviews. 10:14:31 kc5: you are working on a Forth-based router? 10:14:44 XeF4: we've just talked about the idea. 10:15:02 I want one, to hack on. :) 10:15:29 I "was" working on converting a C router thingy to Forth, but then I got fed up with other issues and resigned my job at the place in question 10:15:50 what's your opinion on doing a router in Forth? 10:15:55 (read: other "non-technical" issues) 10:16:31 a7r: not particularly difficult and makes debugging/later expansion a lot easier 10:16:41 XeF4: yeah, that's what I'm thinking. 10:16:58 if you don't mind me asking, how hard was interfacing w/ your ethernet controllers? 10:18:33 not hard because I was writing it atop FreeBSD 10:18:47 oh, slick. 10:18:59 I'm thiking I'd like to see one running as close to the hardware as possible. 10:19:07 though if I would write my own from scratch, I would run on the bare hardware 10:19:52 and preferably not on PC hardware 10:19:58 I'm a big OpenBSD fan right now, but I want to see how easy it'd be to develop a standalone Forth, and what kind of speed increase you could hope to attain by removing the middleman. 10:20:44 depending on the ethernet controller, possibly quite an increase since you could eg. start forwarding a packet before it has arrived in full 10:21:37 http://www.soekris.com/net4501.htm <- this is the board I'd like to support as a test platform. 10:27:49 a7r: Interesting. :) 10:28:14 XeF4: No. I'm working on FS/Forth itself at the moment. Eventually, though, it'll be used increasingly in network-aware software environments. 10:28:33 XeF4: A router is not outside of the question, but it is not an application I have a need for. I would have to be paid for the development effort. :) 10:29:53 a7r: Look on the MIT Exokernel website; their performance gains from touching the hardware directly over Unix, even with the overhead of protection services from the exokernel, is on the order of 4x to 8x. 10:30:27 I find these numbers intriguing, as it vindicates Jeff Fox's and Chuck's claims of 10x performance gains in well-written Forth software. 10:30:48 werd, I'll check it out. 10:31:18 a7r: looks a bit overcomplex board for my tastes, but if it's cheap thanks to the miracle of mass production, why not.. 10:31:24 a7r: what does that board cost? 10:31:31 XeF4: 200 10:31:41 USD? 10:31:45 it's pretty simple.. it's just 3 ethernet controllers, strapped to an Elan 10:31:46 yeah 10:32:19 a7r: plus all the usual PC chipset stuff it looks like 10:32:20 230 if you get the case, and powersupply with it.. but that's in quantities of 10:32:21 1 10:32:49 XeF4: true. 10:33:20 but it has a flashcard slot which is good 10:33:37 * kc5tja nods 10:33:47 And there are no fans in it anywhere, which is what I personally *really* like. 10:33:52 and a serial port which is not entirely detrimental 10:34:09 What I find missing from it is a video display. It has compact PCI, but there are no video devices for that slot that I'm aware of -- none that are cost effective, at least. 10:34:34 This suggests that the only reliable way to get video out of it is to use some remote video protocol (e.g., VNC, X11, etc). 10:34:52 VNC is easier to implement if you're going to code in Forth, of course. :) 10:34:53 kc5tja: you can plug a video PCI card into it.. but the BIOS is designed to not use any VGA 10:35:11 it's setup to route all BIOS-based communication out to the serial port 10:35:14 a7r: The last time I checked that device out, it had "compact PCI", not normal PCI. 10:35:26 kc5tja: nah, it's full 3.3v PCI 10:35:39 and it has a mini-PCI slot 10:36:12 kc5tja: shift registers+DAC soldered to the ethernet port? 10:36:24 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-189-65.phnet.fi) joined #forth 10:36:36 (except that driving the network controller probably requires constant intervention from the CPU) 10:36:45 XeF4: Ethernet is too slow for video. 10:37:15 terve 10:37:21 Hi mur. 10:37:26 XeF4: (re: CPU intervention) It never stopped the game developers for the Atari 2600. :) 10:38:06 512 384 60 * * . 11796480 ok 10:38:51 Your point? 10:39:03 kc5tja: that ethernet is fast enough for b&w video 10:39:15 hmmm 10:39:17 Nope. 10:39:26 how fast is eth ? 10:39:27 You're omitting overheads from the header, from bus settle, etc. 10:39:32 10mb? 10:39:40 10/100 10:39:43 The video device would have to compensate for this too. 10:39:51 woudlnt' 100 be enough? 10:40:05 kc5: if it's a good controller, the header can probably be omitted 10:40:09 640x480, BTW -- 512x384 isn't supported by most VGA monitors. 10:40:20 XeF4: not the Ethernet header... 10:40:49 It'll still produce the 64-bit preamble for each packet, at the very least. 10:40:58 That's how collision detection is done. :) 10:41:04 kc5tja: then how can I send faked MAC addresses from my Tulip card? 10:41:13 preamble!=header 10:41:27 Most Ethernet cards have registers containing MAC addresses. 10:41:32 Reprogram the MAC registers. 10:41:55 64 bits will fit in a horizontal retrace 10:43:11 Well, if we're going to go through this kind of trouble, we might as well just use plain vanilla VNC. 10:43:49 true enough, but the question was of possibility, not sanity :-) 10:44:23 I still can't see how it can be done and still meet real-time constraints. 10:44:45 The video device would have to cache a whole scanline in memory to do it. 10:44:59 why? 10:45:17 To decouple the Ethernet transmission rate from the CRT transmission rate (25.2MHz versus 100MHz). 10:45:24 err, 100MHz versus 25.2MHz. 10:46:54 one could use 10MHz with a longer dot period or 100MHz and the video driver skips bits not used by the DAC 10:47:49 Either solution loses any kind of real-time control. 10:48:01 There is no way to sync a packet transmission with a horizontal sync. 10:48:25 It's much easier if we just send a whole scanline at a time, in a big burst. 10:48:35 This way, the video device maintains sync, locally. 10:49:13 much easier yes 10:50:04 And, frankly, for that matter, we might as well just let the video device cache the whole frame buffer. 10:50:32 The computer would just send descriptions of what to display instead of the actual bitmaps themselves (unless suitably overridden of course). 10:51:31 yes, if we want a practical solution instead of a "look, apparently this is possible" demonstration 10:51:48 but at the moment, I speak of the latter. 10:51:59 * mur reminds of compression :o) 10:52:10 Well, I'm still not 100% convinced that it would be possible. :) 10:52:18 But I suppose it could be. 10:52:41 A single Ethernet frame can carry 1500 octets of data. 10:52:47 That's 12000 bits of information. 10:52:58 Divided by 640, that turns out to be 18.75 bits per pixel. 10:53:13 So it's conceivably possible to get true-color out of this type of set-up. 10:53:33 It's just the whole synchronization with HSYNC and VSYNC that bothers me. :) 10:54:03 the controller has RX pins too, you know 10:54:13 Yes, but that doesn't mean anything. 10:54:24 no? 10:54:42 The interrupt response time to the CPU would be effectively variable, within a small margin of error. That variability can make or break a video frame. 10:54:51 Monitors aren't too happy with wobbling sync pulses. :) 10:55:10 There needs to be some way of monotonically bursting data to the video device. 10:56:09 well.. one could use the PIT to time cache invalidates for the window when a hsync *could* occur, making the delay less variable :-) 10:56:24 uugh. :( 10:56:39 If it's a standard PC PIT, it will have horrible time resolution. 10:56:47 ~1us 10:56:52 It still ought to be sufficient, but I don't want to deal with the PIT if I can get away with it. 10:57:26 Yes, *around* 1us. Not 1us. *around* 1us. :/ 10:57:27 with a >= pentium one could poll the cycle timer for the same purpose 10:58:02 The Soekris box is 486-class. 10:58:08 I know. 10:58:14 so that is out of the question 10:58:57 Oh well. At any rate, this is all academic for me. :) 10:59:04 ditto. 10:59:46 humz. one other possibility =) 11:00:04 what's that? 11:00:20 if one uses a monochrome monitor with composite sync and uses 2 bits per pixel, but only 1 displayed, we have 2 values as control messages 11:01:34 That actually has a greater chance of succeeding, I think. :) 11:02:42 still useless since most of the CPU's time would to go to video overhead 11:02:48 s/to// 11:02:53 * kc5tja nods 11:03:03 But remember, the Atari 2600 had all CPU-generated video too. 11:03:25 (believe it or not, it is true. The TIA chip had no DMA engine at all.) 11:03:51 I've looked at the specs and at least you could specify spans instead of individual pixels 11:04:20 I don't recall seeing that. 11:04:36 The most I recalled seeing was that you could split the display in half, and half the right-half mirror the left-half. 11:04:49 But the CPU still had to load the pattern registers manually. 11:04:57 yes, because the playfield was normally only specified for the left half 11:05:21 perhaps I'm remembering wrong 11:05:23 ly 11:05:36 I think you're correct. 11:05:58 But, I think if you changed the pattern registers fast enough, you could make the right-half independent of the left. 11:06:14 I remember seeing many games that had independent left and right halves. 11:06:45 It was rather fascinating to see though. When I first saw the specs for the TIA, I was shocked at how utterly simple (and just a *hair* above useless!) it was. :D 11:06:55 The fact that a number of quite decent games were released for that was just amazing. 11:07:42 Anyway, I'll be right back. 11:11:41 8-bit general purpose I/O 11:14:03 re, earlier: 133MHz 486 could be a bit slow for 100Mbit routing (depends on the (un)intelligence of the ethernet controllers and bus) but otherwise looks quite usable as a router 11:15:07 w/ BSD, it'll route ~30 MBit max, between interfaces. 11:16:43 which BSD? 11:22:35 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@ts21-b192.Moscow.dial.rol.ru) joined #forth 11:22:40 hi 11:22:48 just few mins - home modem 11:23:13 hey :) 11:23:27 i now activated my cell phone 11:23:44 pse gimme your number - i'll try to send sms for test ;) 11:25:33 i wrote an ascii art editor in two days :)) 11:25:50 now it can edit and save, olnly remains to write load 11:27:00 mur: any wishes\suggestions ? 11:28:06 * mur does not have cell phone :P 11:28:18 * mur belongs to small minority which doenst use phones at all :) 11:28:31 * Serg_Penguin now is pulling comp.lang.forth 11:28:44 so for what reason you don't use ? 11:33:20 Hi serg 11:33:31 mur: Same here ;) 11:35:10 I dont own a phone 11:35:13 got one at my desk tho 11:35:20 at werk 11:35:26 only people who ever called me were telemarketers. 11:35:33 :) 11:35:40 it only sucks when you want to order chinese :))) 11:36:12 ask if they can send you samples >:) 11:36:30 ehe 11:37:01 "i never order anythign unless i have free samlpes to decide wether to order or not" >:) 11:37:15 and say that they can get back to you once you have seen samples 11:37:18 then hang up :) 11:42:52 a7r/kc5tja: please inform me if there is a customer for a Forth router.. 11:43:10 as I do have time to write one 11:43:20 XeF4: I think that'd be something you could sell. 11:43:46 I know I'd participate enough to get one developed. 11:46:01 back 11:46:49 XeF4: I think it'd be an interesting project to put together, and give access to the source. 11:47:38 a7r: without access to the source it would be just another router like every other 11:47:53 XeF4: I believe that customers just want routers -- they don't particularly care about how it's implemented. Hence, if using Forth offers you an economic or competitive advantage, then I'd say to go ahead. But the customer won't care if it's written in C or Forth. 11:48:25 XeF4: yes. but I'm saying you'd maybe GPL it. 11:48:35 build up a common base for people to build routers from. 11:49:03 kc5: if the facilities for hot configuartion changes could be made easily usable, then there would be quite a difference 11:49:37 Well, one thing I found about making "configuration changes" in Forth is that the source is its own configuration file, if you code the software right. 11:49:59 Hence, making configuration changes would simply involve recompiling the router software. 11:50:05 kc5tja: but customers are scared if you say it directly 11:50:12 It's fast enough that the user wouldn't know that he's actually editing source. 11:50:30 So don't tell them directly. 11:50:31 kc5tja: yeah 11:50:31 :) 11:50:47 I want to be able to change core functionality on a router, w/out rebooting it. 11:50:53 I've given up a long time ago on trying to promote Forth to the public. 11:50:57 They don't want to hear about it. 11:51:07 So I just use it. 11:51:24 To most of my customers, at least, C is as much greek as Forth. 11:51:47 AND, here's a wonderful thought: use blocks. 11:51:55 yeah 11:51:58 If you store the router's SPF database in blocks, it's persistent across reboots. 11:52:08 E.g., *instant* on performance. 11:52:46 Modern routers, as soon as they lose power, they have to rebuild their SPF databases, and that takes *forever*. At least six hours to be able to route correctly to most Internet destinations. 11:53:02 In some cases, I've seen it take as long as two days. :( 11:53:22 not to mention saving existing NAT states 11:53:36 .. and any other firewall states 11:54:17 * kc5tja nods 11:54:43 kc5: I would probably store routing databases as pre-parsed source (probably but not necessarily organized in blocks) 11:55:09 more specifically, pre-parsed source in a tree 11:55:28 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:55:43 Well, what I mean by blocks is you treat N consecutive blocks as a persistent storage space. It's managed using words like, say, P@ and P! (which work like @ and !, except it's for that persistent space). The block engine would manage persistence, a lot like a CPU's MMU manages pages. 11:56:41 *nod* 11:57:16 The only requirement is making sure 16- and 32-bit quantities are naturally aligned; otherwise, overflow could occur at the end of one block, and thus, lose data. And crash the system in subtle ways later. :D 11:57:29 I keep a cfa field with pre-parsed defining words so words can be compiled the first time they're used 11:57:57 Sounds very AHA-like. 11:58:11 * kc5tja was thinking about AHA the other day, actually. Quite an interesting system. 12:00:13 XeF4: well, I'm down for development on the networking side, if you want to hack on the Forth side. :> 12:00:34 a7r: where do you draw the line between networking and Forth? 12:01:17 XeF4: I'm talking about the actual compiler, and friends. 12:01:32 I've written the networking code in the past, but I've never put together any Forth language essentials. 12:01:40 butbut.. I already have my own vision of how the router ought to work 12:01:48 :-) 12:01:55 well, then, go and write it. 12:01:59 I want to check it out. :) 12:02:13 but I don't need a router 12:03:23 haha 12:03:27 brb 12:03:39 fine then, I better go learn my Forth internals. 12:04:43 and I would be hard pressed to find a customer 12:16:55 and at the moment I lack a network for proper testing 12:18:24 (not a big obstacle though) 12:19:24 back 12:19:55 a7r: Actually, that's a worthy thing to do anyway. It's extremely an educational experience. I'm still learning a lot myself. 12:20:21 yeah, I need to do that anyway 12:20:33 And don't worry about making it ANS compliant. I'd save that for later if you really wanted it. ANS compliancy can get in the way of learning. 12:23:14 I was watching some of Fox's aha stuff, that looks good. 12:23:30 Yeah, it is pretty neat. 12:23:39 I do have intentions to play with all sorts of stuff, and record my experiences. 12:27:30 I promise I will release my Forth stuff before winter comes. 12:27:56 (really.) 12:28:28 --- join: crc (~crc@ACAF05D0.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 12:28:45 --- quit: crc (Client Quit) 12:39:04 --- join: crc (~crc@ACAF05D0.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 12:39:31 Heh 12:41:47 watching the AHA video 12:42:12 hard to believe a Forther can be so verbose 12:46:50 --- quit: crc ("I was using TinyIRC! Visit http://www.tinyirc.net/ for more information.") 12:54:54 XeF4: lol :) 12:58:39 though perhaps better than that to explain the essence in a few dozen words and leave the audience puzzled 12:59:55 Yeah, he's the diametric opposite of Chuck. 13:00:01 At least when speaking and writing. 13:00:16 bastard! it's realaudio 13:00:52 does Jeff Fox use Windoze too? 13:01:12 appears so 13:01:39 ok, there's something else for me to do when I'm at my girlfriend's house 13:01:51 yes, I should hope so 13:01:56 haha 13:02:03 later. 13:19:32 * kc5tja uses Linux, and I can view it just fine. 13:19:54 The RealMedia files offer adequate video quality, at 5x better compression (on average) than the MPEG files he has. 13:20:18 Of course, these were all made before DivX had come out, so maybe it's time to retranslate the videos. But still . . . 13:23:56 --- join: crc (~crc@ACAF05D0.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 13:25:34 --- quit: crc (Client Quit) 13:28:49 going from one compressed format to another loses a lot of detail 13:29:28 it'd only be worth it if you had original sources 13:29:52 I'm sure he does. 13:29:58 If he were smart, that is. 13:31:43 probably as VHS tapes that have deteriorated over the years 13:32:41 * kc5tja nods 13:41:04 cm's speeches are even fun(ny) to listen to 13:42:03 --- join: crc (~crc@ACAF05D0.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 13:43:21 --- quit: crc (Client Quit) 13:46:58 4realmedia :( 13:48:30 * kc5tja loves listening to CHuck Moore talk. 13:48:36 I wish he produced more videos. 14:03:58 where is this vid3eo 14:04:00 you want to start a fan club? :) 14:04:05 we could have ID cards and everything. 14:04:12 ;> 14:04:53 ianni: ultratechnology.com 14:05:09 Well, Chuck did discuss having Forth uniforms, with rank identified by colored patterns on the sleeves and such. 14:05:22 http://www.ultratechnology.com/rm4.htm 14:05:24 Like, ANS Forth users would have black and white stripes, while ColorForth users would have colored stripes. 14:05:25 kc5: when? 14:05:32 MachineForth users would probably have pin-stripes, etc. 14:05:51 I forget. I'd have to watch all my videos again (I've kept a cache of them) to find it again. 14:05:53 kc5: what about those who code ANS forth because their job demands it but colorforth elsewhere? 14:05:59 separate work and play uniforms? 14:06:17 extra stripes on the same sleeve? 14:06:25 right hand=work, left hand=else? 14:06:26 XeF4: He's talking about philosophical beliefs here; those who *believe* ColorForth isn't Forth would wear the ANS Uniforms. 14:06:35 ah 14:06:37 I think you're taking this entirely too seriously. 14:06:41 then I'd have to read the transcript 14:06:56 ah :-) 14:07:08 I wasn't taking it seriously at all 14:32:04 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 15:27:33 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:13:23 Food, then aikido. 16:13:34 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 16:16:03 --- join: crc (~crc@AC9A08C3.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 16:16:23 wb crc 16:16:45 wb? 16:17:02 Welcome Back 16:17:14 Thanks 16:17:24 I've been busy 16:17:40 I just had a tasty dinner, now I'm ready for some programing :) 16:17:55 Agreed :) 16:18:11 I'm working on some new stuff for RetroForth 16:24:33 cool 16:24:47 I'm forgetting what retroforth is. is there a URL? 16:25:31 http://retro.tunes.org 16:25:46 It's a native Forth-OS, that also runs under Linux 16:26:40 Written in assembly and Forth, though it can use SVGALIB or SDL for output if desired 16:26:59 the latest releases run under linux? 16:27:48 very cool 16:27:51 Yup/ 16:28:01 will it run decently on my p100? 16:28:07 It should. 16:28:26 It's designed mainly for 80386/486 machines. 16:44:23 * XeF4 pulls himself up from the floor after being struck by the fact that ANS forth has no carry flag 17:15:34 --- quit: crc ("I was using TinyIRC! Visit http://www.tinyirc.net/ for more information.") 17:21:34 --- quit: a7r_ (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:22:11 http://winstars.free.fr/english/bush.html 17:33:57 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:52:28 --- quit: mur ("FOO executed: reason: BAR") 19:02:12 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 20:04:53 --- join: guest34857 (~squirrel@pc1-bolt4-5-cust159.mant.cable.ntl.com) joined #forth 20:38:14 --- quit: guest34857 ("sleepy time") 20:49:05 --- join: snowrichard (~chatzilla@c66.190.103.110.ts46v-01.mrshll.tx.charter.com) joined #forth 20:49:17 hello how is it going? 20:50:08 --- quit: snowrichard ("ChatZilla 0.8.23 [Mozilla rv:1.3/20030603]") 20:57:31 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 20:57:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 20:57:45 re 21:05:55 *yawn* 21:18:34 * kc5tja is sick. :( 21:18:35 --- quit: fridge (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:19:01 brb 21:20:55 back 21:27:14 --- join: fridge (~matt@dsl-203-33-160-181.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 21:48:11 --- join: fridge_ (~matt@dsl-203-33-160-181.NSW.netspace.net.au) joined #forth 21:48:12 --- quit: fridge (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:48:28 --- nick: fridge_ -> fridge 22:10:29 --- quit: XeF4 ("pois") 22:11:21 --- join: Fractal (bopsj@i.either.got.mad.cow.from.alberta.beef.or.strongLSD.com) joined #forth 22:11:58 oops. I get 500 on http://forth.bespin.org/forum "maximum recursion depth exceeded" 22:33:48 HUH? 22:33:50 Shouldn't do that. 22:34:14 Oooh....futhin didn't update the forum page yet. I should probably take that down. 22:34:14 :) 22:50:21 OK, fixed. 22:58:34 404 is better I guess... 22:59:06 goodnight 22:59:09 --- quit: Herkamire ("bedtime") 23:09:54 You do not get a 404 error when accessing the forum page. 23:10:25 doh - he's gone. Didn't see it. 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.06.13