00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.06.07 00:00:01 --- log: started forth/03.06.07 00:00:01 yeah dammit, the forth site should have a patterns page and people would submit patterns to it.. 00:00:16 and a projects tracking page, etc.. 00:00:31 i gotta stop procrastinating and learn zope & plone 00:00:54 what are the best zope/plone resources you've seen besides the zope & plone books? 00:01:39 None 00:01:42 You just gotta do it. 00:01:58 I learned the hard way, back when Zope was still 1.x. :) 00:02:03 They didn't ahve books back ten. :) 00:02:07 then even 00:02:07 have even 00:02:07 :) 00:02:10 I'm getting tired. :) 00:03:19 heh 00:03:32 FUCK -- How the hell did I overload the UT site with a 80MB download 00:03:34 ?? 00:03:41 Now I have to start it all over again. :( 00:03:41 eh? 00:03:57 how do you know you overloaded it? 00:03:59 UT's web server just cut the connection, and now UT is giving me 503 errors. 00:04:06 Bandwidth limit exceeded. 00:04:28 that's the 503 error? 00:04:43 Well, it says, "Service temporarily overloaded. Please try back in a couple of hours." 00:05:11 weird, i've never gotten that. ever. with any site.. 00:05:50 I got 58MB of the 80MB. 00:05:54 >:/ 00:06:39 well hey, that 58mb is watchable :D 00:06:50 if you use the right player 00:06:54 anyways 00:06:57 i'm gonna go to sleep 00:07:12 OK. 00:07:20 I'm going to watch what I have so far, and download it again tomorrow. 00:07:29 nod 00:07:34 --- quit: futhin ("sleep") 01:00:32 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 01:50:45 --- quit: kc5tja ("[x]chat") 02:18:51 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 02:32:13 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@likes.smoking.and.watching.spacenight.dk) joined #forth 02:43:38 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 02:52:10 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:51:47 --- quit: a7r_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 05:36:11 well after pizza that nap lasted all night guess I really needed to sleep :) 05:55:23 --- part: snowrichard left #forth 07:00:33 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 07:17:03 --- join: tcn (~tcn@tc2-login47.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 07:18:57 allo 07:21:06 hey 07:43:31 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 07:50:51 --- quit: tcn ("TinyIRC 1.1") 08:54:57 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:25:59 hex 4666 dup negate do i 4000 dup 2* negate do 2a 0 dup 2dup 1e 0 do 2swap * d >>a 4 pick + -rot - j + dup dup * e >>a rot dup dup * e >>a rot swap 2dup + 10000 > if 3drop 2drop 20 0 dup 2dup leave then loop 2drop 2drop type 268 +loop cr drop 5de +loop 10:07:55 --- quit: fridge_ ("http://lice.codehack.com") 10:45:52 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 10:45:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +o kc5tja 11:25:39 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 11:31:58 --- join: snowrichard (~root@c66.190.103.110.ts46v-01.mrshll.tx.charter.com) joined #forth 11:33:58 Hi 11:34:20 --- join: PoppaVic (~pfv@s152.waters.gtlakes.com) joined #forth 11:35:16 hello. my computer is a little slow while I am compiling something. I am a little low on RAM on this machine 11:35:28 only 96M 11:36:39 "only" 11:36:47 also? 11:38:35 96M is quite much I would think 11:39:03 * kc5tja is still running on 64MB of RAM. 11:39:07 well I have had machines with 256M and they run much better 11:39:15 yeah.. I'd love a mem-upgrade 11:39:30 ..of course, I might as well get a new mobo and cpu then, too 11:40:44 kc5tja: got it to compile to an .so and still works.. Still cogitating dictionaries, headers and such. Also, revamping word-flags, and debating the value of commas and 'here' 11:40:54 Though, I don't want to hear about slow compilers: PygmyForth compiles my FS/Forth target image, which is currently only 5092 bytes long, in about 8 to 12 seconds. :) 11:41:10 my first computer came with 1.1K and we had to pay $300 for an 8K upgrade. that was a long time ago :) 11:41:32 -rwxr-xr-x 1 pfv pfv 163700 Jun 7 14:46 libcommonforth.so 11:41:33 -rwxr-xr-x 1 pfv pfv 48369 Jun 7 14:46 vm2 11:41:51 debugging all over the place, too 11:41:53 Cool. Pre- or post-stripping? 11:41:57 pre 11:41:58 Ahh, that answers it. 11:42:18 Yeah, it's often reporting func/line/file as well as vm state 11:42:56 kc5: really? pygmyforth was at least usably fast on the 386sx/16 I tried it with 11:43:03 I'm still cogitating dictionaries & headers, though. 11:43:29 Pygmy's compile speed is heavily limited by its dictionary structure, which is simply a dumb linked list. 11:43:47 It could be sped up immensely by employing a cache of recently used words and such. 11:43:56 I told Stepan I'm considering a second-pass for header-gen. Requiring a distinct load to use. 11:44:21 I did some threaded list analysis the other day. 11:44:34 you are implementing your own forth? 11:44:44 snowrichard: Yes. 11:44:52 32 threads drop everything to an average of like 80 words per thread. It looks viable. 11:45:00 * kc5tja nods 11:45:20 * kc5tja doesn't like hashing. I mean, I do, but if I can get similar speed-ups without it, I will. 11:45:36 Also cutting out "immediate" in favor of a four-mode setup. 11:45:42 Hashing makes implementing FORGET more complicated and slower. For my needs, that's counter-productive. 11:45:59 What are the four-modes? 11:46:11 all I care is about using heap well and not having an SLL to fight. 11:46:40 hold on, lemme grab the notes.. I'll paste to a query, kc5tja - you can post whatever herein. 11:46:51 OK 11:47:19 re: dictionaries -- I like the SLL concept, because it keeps the dictionary in its most conceptually pure form. It also takes the least amount of RAM and code to implement. 11:48:08 SLL -- singly linked list? 11:48:57 you got the paste - as it rolls in ;-) 11:48:59 I prefer threads, but once I have 'em done, I don't want to notice it any further 11:50:38 ..much like that alignment foo-foo 11:51:29 Most compilers do alignment for you automatically when creating new words; it's only when C, and , are inter-mixed that alignment usually becomes a concern. 11:52:29 JForth for the Amiga, for example, is F83-based, and it supports ALIGN. But in all the same source code I've seen, I've seen ALIGN used, maybe, twice. 11:52:43 s/same/sample/ 11:52:52 * kc5tja can't bloody type today. 11:53:00 well, it won't matter, since I deal with a CELL union and autoalign everything you can imagine. 11:53:53 * kc5tja nods 11:53:56 However, I am looking for feedback on the "modes" and I'm still arguing dicts as well as the comma-crap and 'here' 11:53:58 JForth tends to auto-align too. 11:54:35 Yah.. I suspect an optimization-freak would write asm anyway, for his embedded gizmo. 11:55:04 although, metacompilation from this is certainly possible. 11:55:24 The versions of AmigaOS that JForth runs on requires a 680x0 processor, which are all data alignment sensitive. 11:55:47 The modes look good to me. 11:56:15 I merely deploy it to make cpu's happy - they tend to accelerate with aligned data, and everything I touch seems to fit in those CELL's fairly nicely. 11:56:52 You too then have no problem seeing why this is better than dicking with "immediate" and then the hack-arounds we are used to? 11:56:54 68000, 68010, and most (all?) PowerPC processors will trigger a fault on misaligned data access. 11:57:13 I am getting off here a while and letting this compile finish it is irritatingly slow. 11:57:30 --- quit: snowrichard ("BitchX: use it, it makes you bulletproof") 11:57:31 yah, I've not written anything like signal/fault handlers.. I know we need it, too: it'd save a few K of tests 11:59:09 I guess what I don't yet understand is how you handle a word like S", which really would behave differently depending on interpret or compile operation. 11:59:57 there is no reason for a state-dependent word at all. 12:00:22 however, I'm considering a dual-state 'defers' handler 12:00:29 Then you propose using different words for embedding a string literal in a compiled program and for putting a string in PAD? 12:00:37 yes. 12:00:43 * kc5tja nods 12:00:55 and, of course, I can still see a need for (:noname) 12:02:58 I was just wondering about that, because I've been kicking around the idea of writing a ColorForth for my Amiga. 12:03:14 Chuck's ColorForth still has two vocabularies (compiler and interpreter, basically). 12:03:29 Which I see no need for if color is used to distinguish what a word's exact purpose is in the source. 12:03:37 pretend I'm colorblind - wetdreams are not an answer 12:03:55 But by dropping to one vocabulary, I lose the ability to have "state-smart" behaviors in words. 12:04:14 PoppaVic: Even colorblind people can tell the difference between boldface, italics, and underlined words. 12:04:39 yeah, as I agrued elsewhere - I belive "STATE" should be invisible. It's not the in the realm of user-visible vars 12:05:34 STATE is entirely a var for the outer-interp - no one else should have a clue. 12:06:00 ok, updating site even now. 12:06:53 kc5tja: bear in mind though: a word is a word.. State is the user-interface, and mode is per-word. 12:07:33 http://www.gtlakes.com/personal/pfv/ see CommonFORTH This has the shared-object stuff now as well 12:08:13 yoh 12:08:16 --- nick: a7r_ -> a7r 12:08:21 re clog 12:08:26 ehhh...interesting. 12:08:30 re a7r 12:08:32 that's better. 12:08:35 kc5tja: sup? 12:08:43 a7r: Vegging out for the time being. 12:08:44 kc5tja: I would really appreciate any input on ignoreing/denying 'here' and the comma' ops as well. 12:08:52 kc5tja: elite. 12:09:15 PoppaVic: I have to meditate on that for a while. There is equal argument for and against them in turnkey applications. 12:09:30 I'm watching the latest moore presentation (2001) from ultratechnology 12:09:50 a7r: The OKAD II presentation? 12:09:57 yeah 12:10:26 Sure. My point is - it ain't relocatable if you allow it. And, I've been considering - subconc. - doing everything in buffers that we only malloc and copy to on success. 12:10:35 That almost gives me the inspiration to write the PCB layout program I've always wanted to have. :) 12:10:55 yeah, I really want a PCB layout tool as well 12:10:58 heh - check wrote one long ago ;-) 12:11:04 chuck, too 12:11:32 Yup. It shouldn't be all that hard, especially if you rip off CHuck's use of tiles to represent discrete areas on the board. :) 12:11:55 I'll just have to wait for the "commonFORTH" source ;-) 12:12:32 Heheh :) 12:12:46 any relation between commonforth and ciforth? 12:13:03 I'm sure there are other words and ideas we can dump, but i'm working hard on what I can see - jump in anytime ;-) 12:13:29 XeF4: no. I got a 'tude, and then got tired of arguing with asm-freaks to get what I have. 12:13:59 to get what you have? 12:14:15 yup - this is all mine. Even feedback is rare 12:14:16 PoppaVic: I have to admit that I'm biased more towards the stand-alone, block-based Forth environments than something designed to run in a predominantly file-based environment. I'm not sure how much help I can be. 12:14:55 But even so, ideally, you won't need the compiler in a turn-key application. 12:15:02 whatever, kc5tja: you had stream-i/o you wanted to share. if you do, great: if not, then I can work around it. 12:15:20 poppavic: feedback is rare when noone has heard of it :-) URL? 12:15:21 Well, I'm still having some difficulty in coding it. I'm not doing something right. 12:15:25 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@ts21-a241.Moscow.dial.rol.ru) joined #forth 12:15:30 hi ! 12:15:33 re Serg_Penguin 12:15:45 the turnkey/embvedded stuff is always in my mind - but I am not about to wet myself. 12:15:46 from home, just a few mins - modem 12:15:53 PoppaVic: *nod* 12:16:12 kc5tja: can i download u'r proj ? 12:16:33 XeF4: they hear here - and then I got banned and whatnot. So, I rarely visit anymore. 12:16:36 Serg_Penguin: Not right at this time. I have to transfer it from my laptop to my server. It'll take me a couple minutes. 12:16:51 * Serg_Penguin got some colorforth 4 windoze but tioday slept too much to try ;)) 12:16:56 But, remember, it's not finished either. It doesn't load from block storage yet, and does not yet have the compiler implemented. 12:17:05 so, at monday ;) 12:17:12 Serg_Penguin: ?? 12:17:19 Oh, the COlorForth. 12:17:39 Serg_Penguin: Are you still interested in FS/Forth, despite its incomplete state? 12:17:39 damn kbd, too light to hit many keys at once ;( 12:18:00 i wanna look at src, see how forths are done 12:18:09 OK, hold on a second. 12:18:22 Oh, can you read block files? 12:18:29 ask some st00pid questions what maybe base 4 a faq or design tutor 12:18:30 If not, I'll have to translate it to plain-text. 12:18:37 no, i can't 12:18:55 i got a proggie to translate, but it's tied to one RU old forth 12:19:12 i wrote it in a rush to see blocks 12:19:30 OK, so I can just send the block files then. No conversion is necessary? 12:19:32 dd conv=unblock cbs=64 bs=1024 12:19:47 ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww 12:20:08 * Serg_Penguin has no dd, too lazy to reb00t into Linux 12:20:21 my linux has no inet configured 12:20:30 PPP howto is a loose mess 12:20:33 blocks make me ill - just die 12:20:52 write a forth proggie , just few lines 12:21:18 : ke key emit ; 12:21:18 a textfile is also simple 12:21:39 : b>t 64 rep ke cr re ; 12:21:40 representing colorforth gets difficult 12:22:11 PoppaVic: I prefer blocks to plain text. While inconvenient in some respects, I find their other conveniences more than makes up for it. 12:22:23 as I ain't interested in polychromatic-forth, this ain't an issue ;-) 12:22:28 kc5tja: so what way they are better ? 12:22:46 kc5tja; sorry. Data, sure - anything else, not in my life. 12:22:53 * Serg_Penguin sees NO pint for using blocks 12:23:00 NO pOint ;))) 12:23:14 Simplicity comes right to mind. 12:23:25 Text files have a huge disadvantage over blocks in that each line is variable length. 12:23:25 maybe, siplicity of built-in editor ? 12:23:37 Simplicity over the whole system. 12:23:45 if you can't handle cr/lf then it ain't text, and if it ain't text, you need special tools: neither of which interest me. 12:24:05 Well, I'm not going to argue this. 12:24:08 I use blocks. 12:24:10 Deal with it. 12:24:14 It's not my responsibility. 12:24:20 * Serg_Penguin would better use "blocks" w/ fixed width, but having CR/LF so viewable and WEBable 12:24:20 I don't - deal with it ;-) 12:25:07 conversion at load/save time, just like colorforth 12:25:42 flat out: you can't get more "simple" than a lousy textfile. It makes everything on the planet happy Datafiles are a side-issue 12:25:56 * Serg_Penguin gotta go, using phone 2 much time 12:26:13 PoppaVic: why don't you keep doing what you're doing, and stop worrying about it? 12:26:26 a7r: do, am, is 12:28:10 Anyway, I'll let you kids rant. Kc5 - I said what I needed, please feel free o comment/contrib.. I'll bugout and let the asm-heads take over. Tootles 12:28:15 --- part: PoppaVic left #forth 12:28:21 what a jackass. 12:29:19 Yup. 12:29:25 He can be that way sometimes. 12:29:39 Serg_Penguin: Not sure if you're still here or not, but I'm transferring the source files now. 12:29:58 I'll convert them to plain-text format, and bundle them in a single .ZIP file for you. 12:30:40 What annoys me is that, yes, a text file IS simple. But the *EDITORS* for it are NOT simple. 12:30:45 The overall system is more complex. 12:30:53 People don't look at things in the big picture. 12:30:55 VERY annoying. 12:35:04 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:35:19 Oh crap -- I forgot. I have shadow blocks intermixed with source blocks. 12:35:26 Just one of the reasons why I *love* blocks compared to files. 12:44:48 whats that? 12:44:52 ive been meaning to learn bloicks 12:46:58 it seems so handy, to me 12:47:01 just having them there 12:48:33 * kc5tja nods 12:48:52 I arrange my code so that every other block is source, and the intervening blocks are documentation. 12:52:38 Some people prefer two contiguous ranges of blocks (one for source, one for shadow); the block editor then typically toggles between the two. 12:54:24 ah 12:54:34 kc5: or they look at the big picture from a funny point of view (the textfile editor is present in any case as part of the giant complexity(OS) that is present in any case, so no complexity is added by just using it) 12:54:47 * kc5tja nods 12:57:38 I still dislike textfiles because they encumber interactive development 12:57:47 Horribly. 12:58:02 If source were kept in a database or something, then that'd be different. But text files just don't offer that functionality. 12:58:16 Holon uses a source database, which I heard some good things about. 12:59:34 Perhaps the biggest and well-known example of a database system for storing source is, ironically, Smalltalk. It can introspect and decompile almost *anything*. 12:59:53 I don't care about decompilation. 13:00:02 smalltalk is better known than lisp? 13:00:02 --- join: tathi (~josh@pcp02123722pcs.milfrd01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 13:00:16 Almost universally, yes. 13:00:21 Because it's "object oriented." 13:00:25 It's what started the whole OO craze. 13:00:30 I must move in strange circles 13:00:40 Lisp was already obscure by the time Smalltalk was released. 13:01:31 didnt know they used a database 13:01:57 All Smalltalk objects are referenced ultimately from a single root, which is required because of garbage collection. 13:02:05 It turns out everything, right down to program source, is kept that way. 13:02:11 Well, decompilable bytecodes at least. 13:02:26 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-185-120.phnet.fi) joined #forth 13:03:02 wild 13:03:24 wild indeed. hello 13:04:25 not really. I store program source that way, some BASICs do too 13:07:31 Yes, and all those BASICs are *HIGHLY* interactive. 13:07:52 Arguably even more so than Forth. 13:08:34 If you look at all the truely interactive systems, absolutely none of them rely on text files. 13:11:17 Block files provides a nice compromise between the two extremes. 13:11:22 At least I think so. 13:11:48 And pre-parsed source goes one step further, in that it provides virtually orthogonal persistence for the environment. 13:13:12 preparsed source also gives a nice reason to throw out superfluous formatting chars 13:13:36 ==simplereditor 13:13:46 accursed spacebar.. 13:14:05 * kc5tja nods 13:14:48 Although I'm hard-pressed to think of any special formatting characters in even Classical Forth environments. :) 13:18:12 Oh well; I suppose I should go code up the compiler for FS/Forth. Should be a trivial addition. 13:29:30 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:43:28 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 13:49:36 kc5tja: you awake? 13:50:54 Yeah. I don't know for how long though. :) I may have to go afk for a D&D game. 13:51:04 But that shouldn't be for another hour or so. 13:52:59 werd, I have a colorforth question.. I'm missing somethign that should be pretty obvious. 13:53:09 OK 13:53:21 what's the significance of ? before ifs? 13:53:31 Can you give an example? 13:53:40 yah, let me find one.. 13:54:43 like, this for instance: 13:54:43 receive -1 ? if 0 swap for 2* @bit or next then ; 13:54:56 I see this construct a lot: -1 ? if 13:55:27 looking at the way Enth/Flux is written, it's a macro, that looks like it calls some Pentium opcode 13:55:28 I *THINK* it compiles to a CMP instruction, because IF just compiles to a JZ instruction. 13:55:39 okay, that's close to what I was thinking. 13:56:06 Can I see the code for it? I could probably disassemble it. 13:56:15 yeah.. 13:56:44 ? ?list if a9 1, , ; then 8506 2, drop ; 13:57:02 with the drop being a postpone color 13:57:40 and the numbers being hex 13:58:07 are those all green? 13:58:15 yeah 13:58:19 oh, shit 13:58:23 that first ?list should be ?lit 13:58:34 OK, opcode A9 tests EAX against an immediate value. 13:59:22 TEST EAX, 13:59:26 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@207.111.96.113) joined #forth 13:59:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 13:59:31 hiya all 13:59:42 So, -1 ? compares the top of stack to -1, to see if they're equal. 13:59:47 (or not) 13:59:50 re TheBlueWizard 13:59:59 hiya kc5tja 14:00:05 kc5tja: so the ? acts as a setup for the if? 14:00:07 Let's see what the other one does... 14:00:13 a7r: Yes. 14:00:28 1 2 + 3 ? IF ." Yup, they're equal." ; THEN ." Nope." ; 14:00:48 Not sure why he didn't use = for that part. But I'm still reverse engineering. 14:02:07 OK, I see exactly what he's doing. 14:02:29 ?list returns TRUE if the value on the top of stack was a constant -- that is, it can be embedded into the source code literally. 14:02:42 So if you type -1 ?list, it'll return TRUE. 14:02:52 Otherwise, say, -1 DUP ?list, it will return FALSE. 14:03:00 er, ?lit right? 14:03:09 I have no idea what ?lit is. 14:03:20 You typed ?list above -- I assume you mistyped it then? 14:03:20 I mistyped ?lit as ?list 14:03:22 OK 14:03:23 yeah 14:03:26 Yes, ?lit then. 14:03:29 nod. 14:03:38 So, IF a literal is given, it compiles TEST EAX, 14:03:44 Otherwise, it compiles TEST EAX,[ESI] 14:04:06 gotcha. 14:04:31 Now, I'm not at all sure why he's using TEST instead of CMP. 14:04:57 Because TEST will clear the zero flag if the result of (EAX AND ) is non-zero. 14:05:03 (e.g., if any share any bits). 14:05:17 IF, IIRC, compiles to a JZ instruction. Hence, it's negative logic. 14:05:57 So, the phrase -1 ? is literally checking to see if the top of stack is zero (TEST EAX,0xFFFFFFFF; analogous to AND EAX,0xFFFFFFFF) 14:06:13 what are you reverse engineering, kc5tja? 14:06:17 ah. 14:06:18 TheBlueWizard: ENTH 14:06:30 ENTH? never heard of it 14:06:34 Which is based somewhat on Chuck's ColorForth. 14:07:38 hmm 14:08:04 reverse enginnering can be fun...I've done that in the past 14:08:06 This is rather convenient, I suppose, because a word like -IF could be defined as $80000000 ? POSTPONE IF 14:09:11 TheBlueWizard: FS/FORTH interpreted its first commands from the OK prompt a few days ago. :) 14:09:55 The executable's size is currently 5092 bytes. The compiler, which I'm still writing for it, will probably bring it up to around 5200 bytes or so. 14:11:11 sounds like you're making progress...albeit slowly (well, now that you're unemployed, you can bang at it a lot more...then again, need $$$, food, etc. 8-P) 14:11:29 I hopefully won't be unemployed for very long. 14:11:41 I've got bids out to two companies for software development contracts. 14:11:46 One of which is open source, actually. 14:12:08 The open source one will be written in a dialect of FS/Forth that's been ported to Linux. 14:12:40 cool! 14:13:02 In case you're wondering, that project is The Humane Environment, by Jef Raskin. 14:13:39 It's a modernization of the Canon Cat software. He's writing THE for MacOS using Python. I'll be writing it for Linux using Forth. 14:13:48 I talked to Jef about it, and he's all for it. 14:14:18 He doesn't like ColorForth though; but that's OK, because FS/Forth is a classical Forth. 14:14:34 ah, raskin 14:14:49 I can't use the on macos, it needs classical envrionment 14:15:09 which I find odd, as the project was released after OS X was 14:15:09 I tried it once 14:15:11 Yes, that's quite true. 14:15:16 crashed constantly 14:16:08 tathi: Well, my version won't crash. :) Because i fully intend on eating my own dogfood. I've been looking for a kick-butt document editor for school and such for a long, long time. 14:16:18 Word and its open-source Word-clones just don't cut it. 14:16:38 VI is nice, but I'd like something even faster to use than VI 14:17:05 I use vim, it will do me until something better comes along 14:17:15 VIM is currently my preferred editor. 14:17:45 kc5tja: cool -- I was very disappointed... :) 14:18:03 * kc5tja nods 14:18:12 I think this will also boost the visibility of Forth too, for better or worse. 14:18:19 yeah 14:19:23 I wonder how people would react to the use of blocks for the editor's source. >:) 14:19:33 They'll be like, "Nooooooo!" 15:07:49 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 15:07:50 --- quit: a7r (Connection reset by peer) 15:12:06 * kc5tja is away: D&D game 15:13:51 cool :) 15:28:13 --- join: jdamisch (jdamisch@207.191.240.18) joined #forth 15:28:34 hiya jdamisch 15:28:41 hi 15:29:22 TheBlueWizard always reflects positive energy 15:29:28 somehow 15:29:30 zap 15:29:35 hello jdamisch 15:29:55 is there a topic of discusion? 15:32:00 there was a topic about deciphering the code in ENTH (reverse engineering)...then quiet 15:32:24 i see 15:33:11 they were talking about some webpage Forth for demo purposes over at FIGUK today 15:39:21 like i would have played with the Java Forth thingy but after you type in a few lines of code then the cursor gets to the bottom of the screen and then below the bottom of the screen and then you can't see what you type 15:40:42 suppose i could just keep typing in PAGE 16:03:23 --- join: futhin (futhin@dial-44.ocis.net) joined #forth 16:03:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 16:03:31 sup 16:03:46 just sitting here 16:03:51 yay, no memos 16:04:02 clearly no one wants to write for the site ;P 16:05:03 i was over at FIGUK today 16:05:11 there were like 6-8 people 16:05:34 ooh, i forgot to go 16:05:39 hiya futhin 16:05:39 how did it go? 16:05:41 n/p 16:05:45 hey thebluewizard 16:06:06 we talked about a demo Forth on a website 16:06:15 futhin: I haven't written anything yet.... 16:06:31 thebluewizard: wow, coincidence, neither have i ;P 16:07:14 japeters talked me into using VNC to go into some old laptop he has to try Forth across the net 16:07:43 jdamisch: yeah we did that last time.. 16:11:30 why don't everyone write an intro to forth? :D 16:11:45 then we could have 10+ intros to forth ;))) 16:11:50 on the site 16:13:06 let's develop a common pedagogical forth by passing around a paper where each contributor gets to add 10 words =) 16:13:33 ew.. 10 words is too many 16:13:35 futhin: lol re "coincidence".... 16:13:37 maybe 1 word per person 16:13:47 LOL 16:13:56 and we would have to pray that people didn't add a word they wouldn't use.. 16:14:03 "an error has occured in the script on this page" 16:14:21 jdamisch: forums and resources links are broken 16:14:21 "do you want to continue running scripts on this page?" 16:14:26 ? 16:14:29 "Yes" 16:14:34 heh 16:15:57 futhin: no prayer required. it is good to plan for the future and other people and whatnot 16:16:12 * XeF4 in perhaps a rather cynical mood at the moment 16:16:24 uh, it wouldn't be forth if the people didn't practice YAGNI and avoided _all_ hooks 16:16:45 is cynicism anti-rational? ;P 16:17:29 the dictionary definition of cynicism is much different than the definition i've learned from context.. quite sad, the dictionary often has poor definitions for many words :( 16:17:30 16:17:30 Complexification Happens to Everyone 16:17:56 yup 16:18:43 i must strive to reduce complexit 16:18:46 i must strive to reduce complexity 16:21:00 what will happen if i use the registration form? 16:21:40 nothing 16:21:47 then i won't do it 16:21:52 its useless unless you're submitting articles at the moment 16:21:59 you dont need test data do you? 16:22:08 when i get the new forum in, then the registration will be useful 16:22:13 i see 16:23:14 suppose i could read the editorial 16:26:11 heh 16:27:38 --- quit: futhin ("laters") 16:28:03 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 17:10:11 I goota go...bye all 17:10:19